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View Full Version : Are Coops a thing of the past??



Eagle_361st
04-12-2004, 12:14 PM
I saw this thread over at SimHq and it got me thinking about this. I have been wondering why coop participation has been so low. I would love to see it make a comback as it is truely the best part of online flying.
SimHq thread (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=009046#000019)

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1079.jpg

Eagle_361st
04-12-2004, 12:14 PM
I saw this thread over at SimHq and it got me thinking about this. I have been wondering why coop participation has been so low. I would love to see it make a comback as it is truely the best part of online flying.
SimHq thread (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=009046#000019)

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1079.jpg

Tully__
04-12-2004, 12:39 PM
Parly lack of access to good missions, partly the introduction of scripted DF servers.

Good hosts are hard to come by too, though that relates back to the lack of good missions somewhat.

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tttiger
04-12-2004, 12:59 PM
I agree, Eagle, Coops are the best of the best. Can't beat a good hand-written mission.

Coop writing is a real art and we've lost some of the best Coop authors. Hangar is gone. Metlushko is gone. Those two were the best, great devotion to historical accuracy. Dark Hawk has turned to skinning. Bury, who writes what I consider the most exciting Coops (big fight at the end always guaranteed) is the only really good one left and he doesn't produce very many. There are a few available at Netwings.

And since St. Oleg was talked by someone (he obviously listens to some very strange people) into coding the ones we use, I can't even grab the ones I like from my cache any more. I still have never seen an explanation for why that was done. Unless Coop authors have a place to post them, there is nowhere to find new ones.

There just isn't a supply of really good new Coops.

And many of the old Coop regulars (like Tully http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) are rarely seen On Line any more (I had a report of a Tully sighting last week but it could have been a UFO).

That said, I fly On Line every weekend and I fly only Coops and there are a steady stream of them going on. I host 'em. so do many others.

The Coops that CrazyIvan has been hosting, written by his VFC squaddies I believe, are excellent.

Coops have diminished but they are still alive.

For those who haven't tried Coops, just jump in. It's a much more realistic world than DF.

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

crazyivan1970
04-12-2004, 01:02 PM
I know i know - i was a bad boy lately and VFC COOPs thing kind of spinning wheels, BUT. VFC COOPs night will be beack in full force, very soon. Family, job and some other things were preventing me from our regular Friday/Sat/Sunday night smakdown. I missed it myself http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

willyvic
04-12-2004, 01:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
......
And many of the old Coop regulars (like Tully http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) are rarely seen On Line any more (I had a report of a Tully sighting last week but it could have been a UFO).....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just take the forum offline for a bit and most come out to play. Yesterday I saw Tully, p1ngu666, and even you flyin the lobby. Was like a field trip from the old folks home came by or something... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Korolov
04-12-2004, 01:30 PM
I think most of it has to do with the fact that your average player doesn't want to wait 10 minutes for a coop to fill up. In most cases it's worth the wait IMO.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Tully__
04-12-2004, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by willyvic:
...a field trip from the old folks home came by or something... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Tonkin
04-12-2004, 02:49 PM
Imho part of the problem is that missions are encrypted since FB. Before FB many people were sharing and improving existing mission, because you could save them from the cache. Since FB the number of coop hosts on HL has decreased dramatically.
I think that the main reason for this is that distribution of good coop missions is a lot harder than in the IL2 area.

In a thread in ORR Oleg was asked to make encryption an option. Time will tell.

But i miss the good old coop which gave us soo soo much fun.

Bearcat99
04-12-2004, 03:03 PM
Explain that to me..the whole encryption thing.. you mean before you could take a mission out of the cache and run it? Wow!! I never knew that till now.. I see the skins in the cache.. So that means that if i dont have the coop I cant run it?

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T_O_A_D
04-12-2004, 04:01 PM
Sorry I sort of went under goround on them and private. We've been flying the Online Campaigns of late.

If ya see me on MSN Eagle give me a shout I'll join in one. Same goes for the rest of ya. Just check my profile and you will se the ways of contacting me. I usually have Trillian monitoring.
AIM "ToadWW2Flyer"
ICQ#16871445
MSN toad465@hotmail.com

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
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My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
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Tully__
04-12-2004, 04:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Explain that to me..the whole encryption thing.. you mean before you could take a mission out of the cache and run it? Wow!! I never knew that till now.. I see the skins in the cache.. So that means that if i dont have the coop I cant run it?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you fly an online mission, the transferred mission is stored in the mission cache folder & not deleted when the mission is ended.

In Il2 Sturmovik, the mission cache wasn't encrypted, so if you liked a mission you'd been a client in, you could move it out of cache into a coop folder and host it. Before an ill advised hdd format, I had several hundred coop missions from IL2 net chache that I or squad mates hosted or that I'd use for ideas when building missions of my own. On several occasions I joined coops on HL only to find they were missions I'd built and hosted myself (or had been hosted for me by squad mates). Once I even found one that someone thought was good enough to erase my name from the brief as author and replace it with his own http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The mission cache in FB is encrypted and you can't run missions stored there. Consequently, a number of people who were very good hosts with good PC's and good connections but no time or talent for FMB no longer host coops, as their source of mission files has dried up.


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tttiger
04-12-2004, 04:04 PM
Yup, BC.

There also was a free utility you could use to view the briefing on the mission so you knew what it was without having to open it (in the cache they just had a number).

Those were the Good Ole Days http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

Tonkin
04-13-2004, 02:38 AM
I wrote that utility (IL2MissionSaver) but i had to abandon it after FB. I had many requests from people to make it work on FB but the encryption makes it useless.

I hope that the development team will make encryption optional. As soon as that happens I will pick up the work again.

I know many people miss the good old coops

x6BL_Brando
04-13-2004, 05:25 AM
So what was the reasoning behind encryption? Surely not authorship rights - what would be the point of that? Sure, it might be annoying to have one's work plagiarised - but "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" as the saying goes, and no big deal.

I really quite enjoy hosting coops - but it's hard to find many good ones. Not that they aren't around, but the net cache encryption has b------d the option of re-running the gems we occasionally stumble on. This has to be one of the stupider changes to the great game.

Aeronautico
04-13-2004, 05:48 AM
Very fine utility IL2 Mission Saver Tonkin...

It's a pity missions are crypted now for all the reasons listed above, and I hope they won't be in Pacific Fighters...

Maybe petitions should be started in PF and ORR forums to keep 'em uncrypted, or make 'em uncrypted again.

Aero

--------------------
Airplanes are now built to carry a pilot and a dog in the cockpit: the pilot's job is
to feed the dog, and the dog's job is to bite the pilot if he touches anything...

- Arlen Rens, Lockheed Martin test pilot

p1ngu666
04-13-2004, 07:56 AM
i think its because of 3rd party packs, barbarossa, BOE/COE etc http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
i coop a fair amount, and i am on HL a fair amount btw :P
i dont like coops where u fly for 10mins or so to get to target. cos theres a good chance u gonna be taken down within 20sec of combat
perhaps i should get back into fmb http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Hawgdog
04-13-2004, 08:41 AM
And the time. It would be nice to "remap" the coops into quicker games.
I had several but lost when I redid the OS, forgot to back those up.

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HH Quazi
04-13-2004, 10:31 AM
How about using the online Dynamic Campaign missions as a source for coop missions. If I fly a particular mission I like within a campaign, I open it, re-name it, and save it as either single or coop or both. Just a thought. S!

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TacticalSkirmsh
04-13-2004, 10:45 AM
I certainly hope not. While everyone loves a good dogfight server, especially a scripted one with some meaningful purpose/objective, a co-op offers so much more.

Just getting into making them. To answer the question, the reason you don't see a lot of them is probably because they take A LOT of time to make and test. Since one doesn't know if all the "slots" will be piloted by human players, you need to add all the parameters to ensure the AI fly and attack the right things.

Making some training coops for the squad (Fightin' Irish). Whenever I'm on HL, as always, everyone is welcomed to fly.

Last night was testing my second co-op. It involves flying spitfires and hurricanes against two unique bombers (He-111z with attached gliders). So while the spits are engaged in a DF with the BFs, the hurricans attack the bombers/gliders. Unique bomber and very unique modelling of the glider take-offs.

Anyway, in my opinion coops need to be varied and their flight paths short since no one likes to wait too long for the next one if they get killed early.

Regards

"I am not a good shot. Few of us are. To make up for this I hold my fire until I have a shot of less than 20 degree deflection and until I'm within 300 yards. Good discipline on this score can make up for a great deal." (Lt. Colonel John C. Meyer, USAAF)

:FI:TacticalS!

F16_Petter
04-13-2004, 10:51 AM
Well this is an interesting thread indeed. I cannot resist not answering this thread...

First of all I must state that I do not agree with most of you.

I think what we have here is basically a supply/demand issue.

If there was such an enourmous need for CO-OP missions as you claim, there would be several places, where you get missions right?? Blaming the encryption just doesnt justify this problem. I mean just because you cannot snatch the missions from the cache doesnt make the main disadvantages with coops dissapear. And it doesnt stop you from getting missions by downloading them somewehere right?? I dont buy that about the encryption. Thats gotta be there for some reasons, and I dont belive the reason for its existance is to stop ppl from playing co-ops.

CO-OPs are not so common anymore because there is just too much fuzz for so little. Okay so u manage to play an entire 40 min mission and you turn out ok at the end. Whats next..?? nothing...

Oh hey, can we play another one?? or the same again??

Ok that was maybe a bit sarcastic, but thats what I belive the reason is for this dinosaur situation, and it is NOT my personal opinion about co-ops.

I belive that many ppl that fly IL2FB and want co-op play serious, and take it a step further and go with Online war like VEF2 and VOW etc. There "co-ops" are quite organized, it goes fairly quick to fill up the slots, and everybody is quite aware that if they do make trouble in the game, they get their spanking somehow in form of banning etc, I mean u even have to be registered in the first place!

And then there is the DF mode that IMO has actually turned from being the most useless game mode of them all (in its original state), into something completely fantastic. Yes im talking about scripted DEDICATED DF SERVERS.

However, some things can be done in COOP mode that are impossible in DF mode. What im hoping is that the DF and CO-OP will merge somehow in the next simulator series from 1C.

I really hope they will look into the online part of the sims that Oleg creates, because they are in no way user friendly, nor longlasting in entertainment value. (in the long run)

A proof of that is the fbdaemon.

In the old IL2 days I was desperate in trying to create a new game mode called DWO, Dogfight With Objectives that was kind of a blend between CO-OPs but in DF mode. It dint work out too good, however some ppl really liked it.

I hooked up with Badbernie and we worked on a lot of ideas. Badbernie, being a wiz and all had all the skills for making my dream finally come true..

Voila!, he created FBDaemon.

Voila!, supply/demand issue of boring useless DF was solved. Hooray!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I wonder when someone is going to solve the co-op supply/demand issue.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Oh by the way, our site http://www.flygflottilj16.se
will host premium and classic coop missions in the near future with extended briefings on pdf format, so no more complaining about "not-getting-coop-cause-of-the-encryption-problem".
ok?

Maybe in that way can I contribute at least the supply issue.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks for reading this crap!

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Cess-Harp
04-13-2004, 11:36 AM
When the patch comes out you will see more Coops , right now there is not much use.. to many drop outs and issus with the online code .

crazyivan1970
04-13-2004, 11:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cess-Harp:
When the patch comes out you will see more Coops , right now there is not much use.. to many drop outs and issus with the online code .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

TheGozr
04-13-2004, 12:06 PM
i like to fly coop when there are humans pilots but the ai's spoil it for me.
I can't see myself runing after an ai plane true the whole map .. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
would be great to have something between a dofight style but coop.

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/images/pix/il2fbtmhlogosmall.jpg &lt;--Competition Level IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/)

p1ngu666
04-13-2004, 12:30 PM
another thing with the long flights, your often at stupid altitude when u reach action
i mean 6000metres in a p39 :\

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Eagle_361st
04-13-2004, 12:37 PM
Well to me getting to altitude and arriving at the target point are part of the fun for me. I like to see a small part of all aerial combat was. 4 hours of sheer boredom(Albeit not boring for me) and 15 minutes of sheer terror. Most of our long coops have about a one hour total flight time, but the rest are in the 20-40 minute range. This is what makes the sim so great, the user chooses the kind of action he wants.

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1079.jpg

p1ngu666
04-13-2004, 01:42 PM
true :P

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