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View Full Version : Midway - Sand Island Maps and photo analysis.



kikka-01
07-07-2004, 05:05 PM
Okay gang: Here's the maps of Sand Island, showing the level of buildup around June 1942.
First, a background pic from the IJN strike photo:
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/JPbattlePict.jpg

kikka-01
07-07-2004, 05:05 PM
Okay gang: Here's the maps of Sand Island, showing the level of buildup around June 1942.
First, a background pic from the IJN strike photo:
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/JPbattlePict.jpg

kikka-01
07-07-2004, 05:08 PM
Next,the west end of the Island.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/Sand_WestEnd.jpg
Pencil marks are my observations from Oct 1941 Imagery and other battle photos.

kikka-01
07-07-2004, 05:21 PM
Next, the Center section of the Island (these overlap):
Note: the large rectangular water reserviors appear on imagery as a raised (3-4 ft. high) rectangle of earth, not as a building, per se.
Also there is an octagonal structure, northwest of the "ENG CONST" printed on the map. I have no idea what this is - probably the only structure I cannot identify! It's either a rain catch basin or a boxing or sports arena!
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/Sand_Center.jpg

kikka-01
07-07-2004, 05:37 PM
Oh, the circles with spider-web like pencil annotations - they are fresh water wells (the infamous freshwater system alluded to in the fake message the Navy sent clear text from Midway to see if the Japanese would pick it up and mention it in their codes so the codebreakers could verify that the IJN code was cracked). All that is visible from the air is the wellhead, a coffee-can shaped object, connected by the pipelines to a center point. There's no visible "circle".

kikka-01
07-07-2004, 05:41 PM
Note also where the Command Post for the 6th DB is - in the center area. There was a large clear area in the scavoli (vegetation) and bunkers baurried in the sand. The Radar facility, is just to the East of the command area, near the lighthouse beacon area.

kikka-01
07-07-2004, 05:42 PM
OKay, here's the main base area.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/Sand_MainBase.jpg

edited to corect image view.

heywooood
07-07-2004, 05:54 PM
ok - break it up over here - sheeesh!

Whats a feller got to do to get a word in edgewise! womenfolks,...I tell ya.

Kikka - these maps are sweet! Lotsa timely details...really need to take some time to examine these. Mission builders will want to get copies I'm sure. Thanks.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

kikka-01
07-07-2004, 06:10 PM
The actual harbor was to the East of the 20mm position. It could accomodate some ships and submarines. The map below is accurate on that point, though it GROSSLY understates the infrastructure on Sand, has vegetation in the center of the island where it was clear, and other problems.
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/Midway/maps/USMC-M-Midway-1.gif

kikka-01
07-07-2004, 06:15 PM
Ok, now some photo analysis:
The Submarine base after the battle, I believe that small A/C could fly and land on the seaplane taxistrip and pad (see main base map)
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/SubBase_andHangar.jpg
This is near the North Base Pier.
Subsequent analysis of the hangar shows that it did not "fold in." There was some fire warping of the beams, so they had to trash the main hangar and build one half the size on the same spot. What looks like a fold is actually how it was designed (some at Kaneohe bay, T.H on the seaplane base there in 1942).

kikka-01
07-07-2004, 06:24 PM
Ah, yes, the Admin building (alluded to in previous picture).
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/AdminBldg.jpg

kikka-01
07-07-2004, 06:27 PM
And last for tonite:
Famous Jn Ford photo from the top of the concrete power station, looking over the damaged laundry towards the burning fuel tanks on the south shore.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/SandNavalBasefromPowerStation.jpg
Enjoy!
-Spelling edit

[This message was edited by kikka-01 on Wed July 07 2004 at 05:42 PM.]

kikka-01
07-07-2004, 06:35 PM
I guess the upshot of this, is that the Midway WIP needs some serious tweaking to be accurate Compare this PF image to the maps I have provided:
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/230404/Midway_05.jpg
I hope these posts are useful to the developers!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

owlwatcher
07-07-2004, 08:45 PM
Nice maps
Thank you

Is there any mention of the China Clipper or any of Pan American building on Midway.

Loki-PF
07-07-2004, 09:11 PM
Kikka?

I sure hope you're going to be flying for my side http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jieitai_Tsunami
07-08-2004, 03:59 AM
I wonder how big midway and these maps will actualy be?

Can we do Island hopping like in CFS2? Like fliyng from Lae to midway.

If not where are the Japanese going to take off?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/Images/Main%20logo.jpg

kikka-01
07-08-2004, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by owlwatcher:
Is there any mention of the China Clipper or any of Pan American building on Midway.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, and a Trans-Pacific Cable station. Anything marked P.A.A is the Pan American Airways Clipper service. There is a PAA Pier, hotel (Park Hotel, aka., Gooneyville Lodge), avgas storage, several buildings near the hotel for crew and hotel workers, laundry, a PAA light to the SE of the hotel, and a large PAA direction finder at the West end of the island. I have pictures of the hotel, I'll post later. If I can scan in the notes I made from map and photo analysis.

[This message was edited by kikka-01 on Thu July 08 2004 at 12:20 PM.]

Flydutch
07-08-2004, 11:26 AM
Are you in Naval intelegence?

Of course your not allowed to admid it if you are!

I think exactly info like this is seriuosly missing from this sim.

Especialy historic campaign could become more interesting when you have to gather info by fliyng PR missions(Player optional) and use this info to brief the player in the Briefing room for fighter or bomber campaign roles.
De-briefings will show damage PR photos or guncamera film clips.

kikka-01
07-08-2004, 03:10 PM
Not Naval Intel, but Army Intel working at DIA as an imagery officer 89 - 91.
By popular request: The P.A.A. hotel front and side view (I believe this is the side view, it kind-of jives with the overhead view).
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/Gooneyville_Lodge_Aug_1954.jpg
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/GooneyvilleLodgeSide.jpg

Yeah, it would add to immersion for photo recon missions.

kikka-01
07-08-2004, 03:20 PM
Cable Station, servicing the trans-pacific cable. The only truly secure communication with PH. Note the windmills in the 1903 picture, and lack of trees at that date. BTW you are looking from the north to south in the photo.http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/CableStation.jpg
And a nice overhead shortly after the war, showing the iron-wood grove.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/MidwayCableCompound1949.jpg

kikka-01
07-08-2004, 03:31 PM
With the exception of the post-battle of Midway Afield, this is a pretty good approximation of what Sand Island would look like:
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/Late1942afterbattle-annotated.jpg

owlwatcher
07-08-2004, 05:47 PM
Great pictures
Thanks for the reply.
Some where ,some time I read of the build up on midway and it started with stuff on the China clipper. Wish I could remember where.

icrash
07-08-2004, 08:10 PM
Absolutely amazing. If I ever get lost, I'll post here so you can draw me a map http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I think the devs got their work cut out for them.

http://img38.photobucket.com/albums/v117/icrash/txraidersig.bmp

Bateleur
07-09-2004, 08:04 AM
Way to go Kikka!!! I tip my hat to you! Not only do you obviously know your subject but you have obviously gone to a lot of effort in researching it to back the statements up with irrefutable facts.

The best thing about it is that someone seems to have sat up and listened! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/090704/F6F_Hellcat1.jpg

Not the best vantage point but it seems to me that things have definately changed. Thank you for your efforts in ensuring the accuracy of what will undoubtedly prove to be something special! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

kikka-01
07-09-2004, 09:09 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Yeah, looks like someone (besides you guys) have ben paying attention! Aren't they so subtle, though, sneaking it into a background shot of a Hellcat. I can almost make out the streets in the married officer quarters area and other places, too! really coming along. This could be the most historicallly accurate handling of Midway yet! Hope they get the seaplane hangar area right.

kikka-01
07-14-2004, 10:21 AM
Saw some of the footage that Jn Ford shot right before the battle last night. There is a really good view of Sand from the South, just off the reef. I was struck by how tall the water towers appeared and how well the seaplane base stood out. Aerial shots from the PBY-5s really showed how the coral stood out as a greenish blue color inside the atoll. I really advise the developers to view this footage and look at the maps I provided in context.

The ultimate responsibility of the pilot is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions of earthbound ancestors who could only stare skyward... and wish.