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AherasSTRG
02-26-2014, 02:33 PM
This is mostly a thread to make a point regarding the recent "press leak". As far as the authenticity of the leak is concerned, I have to admit that the supposed leak has the same style we are used to by Ubisoft's press writers. The only thing which strikes me as odd is the name of the supposed new engine: AnvilX. The name sounds pretty unproffessional (compare it with names, like Frostbyte, Aurora, Unreal Engine, Cryengine etc etc). However, the rest of the article is quite solid and therefore I consider the leak to be "official".
Starting from this assumption, I need to point out the fact that, whereas most people are occupied with the setting, I am more intrigued by another thing: The supposed changes in the mechanics, I am intrigued by the sentence "ACV is a turning point of the franchise, while staying true to its cores" (or something like that).
For months (even years), people have been asking for a revamped combat and stealth system. Since I consider most people on these forums ignorant bοuffuns, I stood idly and skeptically on the suggestions proposed (crouching button, changed AI, one-hit kill, difficulty modes etc etc). Now, I believe that the wind of change has already started rustling the field of AC mechanics, I have to make a statement in regards to changes in the mechanics from sequel to sequel.
I have loved every single AC I have played (all of them and their spin-offs). I could play 10 more games with the same mechanics, on the same engine, simply on different time periods. However, that does not mean that I wouldn't like something fresh to touch the franchise. My gaming experience (which is not much: Pokemon Blue was my first game) has shown me that a change in the mechanics can have 2 faces: Those that change the feeling delivered by the franchise (eg Mass Effect 1 and 2) and those that don't (Withcer 1 and Witcher 2). I really want the next AC to either hold on to the current mechanics or fall into the second category mentioned above. Mass Effect 2 totally alienated me from the gameplay I had loved in the first game, while I considered Withcer 2 a great achievement and evolution from the first game. I don't care if free running changes or whether the combat is going to be fundamentally redesigned. What I personally care about is for the next AC games to retain the same feeling and immersion the previous titles had.
Do you believe that the next AC game is going to be a turning point for the franchise? What do you wish as a whole for the next game's gameplay? Are you sure you will like the changes (if any)?

Dome500
02-26-2014, 02:40 PM
Regarding "AnvilX" => We know the engine of AC3/4 is "AnvilNext", so it's not too far from it....

As for the mechanics. IMO they need a serious revamp and improvement/evolution.

Heavy improvements in Stealth and a revamp of the Combat system would be the most amazing news to hear in AC since years.

Sushiglutton
02-26-2014, 02:46 PM
Regarding "AnvilX" => We know the engine of AC3/4 is "AnvilNext", so it's not too far from it....

As for the mechanics. IMO they need a serious revamp and improvement/evolution.

Heavy improvements in Stealth and a revamp of the Combat system would be the most amazing news to hear in AC since years.

Agree that it would be awesome news. However I need to see some longer unedited combat/stealth gameplay footage before I know if the changes are for the better. I just hope they have abandoned the mentality that they need to streamline everying to the extreme (like letting dodge and counter be contextual in the combat system).

Farlander1991
02-26-2014, 02:55 PM
I don't get it, how do you define the 'professional level' of an engine name? There are/were engines like Q, SCUMM, GrimE, XnGine, and many others with what can be considered silly or strange names that had totally awesome games developed on it.

AherasSTRG
02-26-2014, 03:18 PM
I don't get it, how do you define the 'professional level' of an engine name? There are/were engines like Q, SCUMM, GrimE, XnGine, and many others with what can be considered silly or strange names that had totally awesome games developed on it.

I understand what you are saying and I am pretty sure great games were created in engines with pretty stupid names. Back in the day, when the concept of a game engine was not so widely known and the gaming industry was not so important, the name of the engine wouldn't really matter. However, nowadays, just like most of the things involved with the production proccess, the engine's name is affected by marketing. The name of the engine developers use to deliver their AAA game has to sound like they can accomplish the most ludicrous graphical and gameplay desires the player has. I might have played Monkey Island, but I was completely clueless about the circumstances of its creation. Right now, though, I do know most of the recent graphics engines. If a game was created based on Cryengine, I am like, "oh, yeah, I know this engine, it's gonna have some crazy *** graphics". And it also sounds cool: I know the game Crysis, I know Crytek, I connect all this stuff, just by reading that Rise Son of Rome uses Cryengine. It's all targeted, everything is marketing nowadays and that is why I find the name AnvilX to not be exactly righ.

Farlander1991
02-26-2014, 03:24 PM
I understand what you are saying and I am pretty sure great games were created in engines with pretty stupid names. Back in the day, when the concept of a game engine was not so widely known and the gaming industry was not so important, the name of the engine wouldn't really matter. However, nowadays, just like most of the things involved with the production proccess, the engine's name is affected by marketing. The name of the engine developers use to deliver their AAA game has to sound like they can accomplish the most ludicrous graphical and gameplay desires the player has. I might have played Monkey Island, but I was completely clueless about the circumstances of its creation. Right now, though, I do know most of the recent graphics engines. If a game was created based on Cryengine, I am like, "oh, yeah, I know this engine, it's gonna have some crazy *** graphics". And it also sounds cool: I know the game Crysis, I know Crytek, I connect all this stuff, just by reading that Rise Son of Rome uses Cryengine. It's all targeted, everything is marketing nowadays and that is why I find the name AnvilX to not be exactly righ.

I can see your point, but I don't see what's so silly in AnvilX.

AherasSTRG
02-26-2014, 03:28 PM
I can see your point, but I don't see what's so silly in AnvilX.

Ah, I don't know. Um... I just find it a bad name... It kinda reminds me of some cartoons I used to watch. I think Digimon it was... The mosters used to turn into an X version of their previous selves. I believe that is why I find things with X in their names kinda childish and an easy way to avoid coming up with a better name. That, or I have childhood issues :p .

Farlander1991
02-26-2014, 03:43 PM
Ah, I don't know. Um... I just find it a bad name... It kinda reminds me of some cartoons I used to watch. I think Digimon it was... The mosters used to turn into an X version of their previous selves. I believe that is why I find things with X in their names kinda childish and an easy way to avoid coming up with a better name. That, or I have childhood issues :p .

Oh man. I haven't watched Digimon, but I certainly see where you're coming from and what kind of things you're talking about :D I don't think AnvilX is bad and childish as the things you're talking about, but maybe by childhood issues are somehow worse? :D

AherasSTRG
02-26-2014, 03:49 PM
Oh man. I haven't watched Digimon, but I certainly see where you're coming from and what kind of things you're talking about :D I don't think AnvilX is bad and childish as the things you're talking about, but maybe by childhood issues are somehow worse? :D

Haha ;) . Anyway, let's forget all this X issue (I know I can't :p ) and focus on the matter at hand. What do you believe regarding the authenticity of the leak and what do you expect from the aforementioned changes?

LoyalACFan
02-26-2014, 03:49 PM
I don't get why AnvilX is any worse than AnvilNext...

Farlander1991
02-26-2014, 04:09 PM
Haha ;) . Anyway, let's forget all this X issue (I know I can't :p ) and focus on the matter at hand. What do you believe regarding the authenticity of the leak and what do you expect from the aforementioned changes?

Well, regarding authenticity... A long time ago I was talking to a dev who told me about the development of Assassin's Creed: Golden Age (which became titled Black Flag) and another AC game led by the Toronto studio (and IIRC that was before Jade Raymond's return to the series was ever announced). I mean, it was a party between devs from different companies (well, more precisely Game Design graduates of my group and our buds), of course there was some kind of talking going on only we are usually respectful enough not to go leak everything online :p (and I haven't, though I would silently smile when everybody was saying how Black Flag was ******** :D ). So it fits that particular part. But that's as far as I can go regarding authenticity.

And regarding what I hope and expect... well, in short, I want a fleshing out of the core. AC4 was a VERY good place to end with the old AC mechanics that were present ever since AC1 (even though somewhat redone in AC3), and was a good 'best of' collection, but I can't say that it can go further like this. I expect fully fleshed out core mechanics based on all the experience that the devs have with the current AC mechanics, I think they have stayed underdeveloped for too long now.

Will_Lucky
02-26-2014, 04:42 PM
AnvilX well sounds fine to me. I will say however that it likely isn't a full blown new engine, just an upgraded engine which ditches the Current Gen stuff and goes all out on Next Gen. Or its a rebranding.

Its the one thing in the supposed leak that stuck out to me, because AnvilNext was designed from the start as a Next-Gen engine and it was held back by its forced compatibility to current gen consoles. So I'd bargain AnvilX is merely an upgraded AnvilNext engine which has been rebranded to make people think its a whole new engine just for the next gen, but in reality just drops current gen support and adds more Next-Gen features.

LoyalACFan
02-26-2014, 04:47 PM
AnvilX well sounds fine to me. I will say however that it likely isn't a full blown new engine, just an upgraded engine which ditches the Current Gen stuff and goes all out on Next Gen. Or its a rebranding.

Its the one thing in the supposed leak that stuck out to me, because AnvilNext was designed from the start as a Next-Gen engine and it was held back by its forced compatibility to current gen consoles. So I'd bargain AnvilX is merely an upgraded AnvilNext engine which has been rebranded to make people think its a whole new engine just for the next gen, but in reality just drops current gen support and adds more Next-Gen features.

That's what I figured, I mean, you don't just use a brand-new engine like AnvilNext for two years and scrap it entirely. But that's fine, I don't have an issue with AnvilNext.

Dome500
02-26-2014, 05:28 PM
That's what I figured, I mean, you don't just use a brand-new engine like AnvilNext for two years and scrap it entirely. But that's fine, I don't have an issue with AnvilNext.

For me Anvil X is just another name for the next Anvil Version.

Instead of the traditional "1, 2, 3" they use roman letters maybe.

X = 10 = 1.0

Something like that could be the case.

Or maybe it was the 10th modification of that engine (within the process or updating it).
Or whatever.

It's like LEAD engine, that Engine is basically a modified Unreal Engine 2.5

They just use another logic behind it, that's all.

And since we know that Anvil is the engine they are using for the AC series since AC3 it's plausible.

Also, it's more than possible that the source has a lot of informations, but not ALL the information and therefore typos, misunderstandings and the possibility of translations can in the end influence the way the information is presented to us in the leak.

lothario-da-be
02-26-2014, 05:47 PM
For me Anvil X is just another name for the next Anvil Version.

Instead of the traditional "1, 2, 3" they use roman letters maybe.

X = 10 = 1.0

Something like that could be the case.

Or maybe it was the 10th modification of that engine (within the process or updating it).
Or whatever.

It's like LEAD engine, that Engine is basically a modified Unreal Engine 2.5

They just use another logic behind it, that's all.

And since we know that Anvil is the engine they are using for the AC series since AC3 it's plausible.

Also, it's more than possible that the source has a lot of informations, but not ALL the information and therefore typos, misunderstandings and the possibility of translations can in the end influence the way the information is presented to us in the leak.
sounds about right. AnvilX sounds powerful to me, lets hope it is if its real. Anvilnext was good for current genbut if you compare it too the devision it looks teribly outdated.

Will_Lucky
02-26-2014, 06:17 PM
sounds about right. AnvilX sounds powerful to me, lets hope it is if its real. Anvilnext was good for current genbut if you compare it too the devision it looks teribly outdated.

AnvilNext was designed from day one to be a Next-Gen engine. The only thing that holds it back is the fact it has to be cross-compatible with Current-Gen formats. Were they able to make a AnvilNext game on the PS4 and XB1 with no other interference it would look incredible.

luckyto
02-27-2014, 12:08 AM
Well, regarding authenticity... A long time ago I was talking to a dev who told me about the development of Assassin's Creed: Golden Age (which became titled Black Flag) and another AC game led by the Toronto studio (and IIRC that was before Jade Raymond's return to the series was ever announced). I mean, it was a party between devs from different companies (well, more precisely Game Design graduates of my group and our buds), of course there was some kind of talking going on only we are usually respectful enough not to go leak everything online :p (and I haven't, though I would silently smile when everybody was saying how Black Flag was ******** :D ). So it fits that particular part. But that's as far as I can go regarding authenticity.

And regarding what I hope and expect... well, in short, I want a fleshing out of the core. AC4 was a VERY good place to end with the old AC mechanics that were present ever since AC1 (even though somewhat redone in AC3), and was a good 'best of' collection, but I can't say that it can go further like this. I expect fully fleshed out core mechanics based on all the experience that the devs have with the current AC mechanics, I think they have stayed underdeveloped for too long now.

And what was the location of this other title? :)

BTW. I think, for the most part, you are right. Personally, I have never felt they fine-tuned any of the mechanics they've introduced. The thought of new mechanics makes me cringe almost. I'm almost rather see them take the best-of and truly refine it.

Except in AI. AI desperately needs work.

Farlander1991
02-27-2014, 01:11 AM
And what was the location of this other title? :)

Given that I've been asked privately similar (and sometimes more detailed) questions about the details I know (though in a less tongue-in-cheek and more serious manner), I hope you don't mind if I put a general response using your quote to hopefully avoid any further discussions on the matter :)

First, I'm not a Ubi dev. I'm a dev who happens to be an AC fan. What I've learned a little bit more than a year ago about two in-development unannounced titles is not a huge center of knowledge from which I can tell everything, it's like a normal paragraph of info half of which everybody knows already because Black Flag was released.

Second, when game industry people mingle in a non-networking setting when they know eachother, sometimes they get a little beyond NDAs. However, that comes with the trust and understanding that the person on the receiving end is not going to run around yelling this info to everybody.

So, I am just participating in the discussion, like you all (and probably shouldn't have mentioned anything, but we're close to announcement anyway, so it won't matter soon) and a while ago I had no idea what Ubi is going to announce this year, though now I may have some (but I won't say if I'm sure or not :p ), but I'm not going to add, confirm or disapprove any info that's hasn't been announced, confirmed or disapproved by official channels.

Thank you.

ArabianFrost
02-27-2014, 01:19 AM
Given that I've been asked privately similar (and sometimes more detailed) questions about the details I know (though in a less tongue-in-cheek and more serious manner), I hope you don't mind if I put a general response using your quote to hopefully avoid any further discussions on the matter :)

First, I'm not a Ubi dev. I'm a dev who happens to be an AC fan. What I've learned a little bit more than a year ago about two in-development unannounced titles is not a huge center of knowledge from which I can tell everything, it's like a normal paragraph of info half of which everybody knows already because Black Flag was released.

Second, when game industry people mingle in a non-networking setting when they know eachother, sometimes they get a little beyond NDAs. However, that comes with the trust and understanding that the person on the receiving end is not going to run around yelling this info to everybody.

So, I am just participating in the discussion, like you all (and probably shouldn't have mentioned anything, but we're close to announcement anyway, so it won't matter soon) and a while ago I had no idea what Ubi is going to announce this year, though now I may have some (but I won't say if I'm sure or not :p ), but I'm not going to add, confirm or disapprove any info that's hasn't been announced, confirmed or disapproved by official channels.

Thank you.

He means to say that it's in England.

Dome500
02-27-2014, 01:25 AM
Given that I've been asked privately similar (and sometimes more detailed) questions about the details I know (though in a less tongue-in-cheek and more serious manner), I hope you don't mind if I put a general response using your quote to hopefully avoid any further discussions on the matter :)

First, I'm not a Ubi dev. I'm a dev who happens to be an AC fan. What I've learned a little bit more than a year ago about two in-development unannounced titles is not a huge center of knowledge from which I can tell everything, it's like a normal paragraph of info half of which everybody knows already because Black Flag was released.

Second, when game industry people mingle in a non-networking setting when they know eachother, sometimes they get a little beyond NDAs. However, that comes with the trust and understanding that the person on the receiving end is not going to run around yelling this info to everybody.

So, I am just participating in the discussion, like you all (and probably shouldn't have mentioned anything, but we're close to announcement anyway, so it won't matter soon) and a while ago I had no idea what Ubi is going to announce this year, though now I may have some (but I won't say if I'm sure or not :p ), but I'm not going to add, confirm or disapprove any info that's hasn't been announced, confirmed or disapproved by official channels.

Thank you.

Of course you don't. Lucky bastard :p ;) (no offense)

Radman500
02-27-2014, 01:28 AM
He means to say that it's in England.

yeah...i think farlander knows something more then we do

its gotta be london

ArabianFrost
02-27-2014, 01:34 AM
yeah...i think farlander knows something more then we do

its gotta be london

He didn't object to it, so he might as well be agreeing.

LoyalACFan
02-27-2014, 01:41 AM
He didn't object to it, so he might as well be agreeing.

Ease off the poor guy, you're putting him in a tricky situation here. He obviously can't comment, so don't put words in his mouth.

Dome500
02-27-2014, 01:49 AM
Ease off the poor guy, you're putting him in a tricky situation here. He obviously can't comment, so don't put words in his mouth.

Yes, I agree. Let's not put any pressure on him.

I would be interested though what kind of dev he is.... :)

Farlander1991
02-27-2014, 01:53 AM
Ease off the poor guy, you're putting him in a tricky situation here. He obviously can't comment, so don't put words in his mouth.

Eh, to be fair it's my fault. I made two mistakes, I've mentioned a private conversation at the time when "exclusivity" did not expire, and also for some reason thought that asking to stop contacting me on PM or e-mail about this would lead to a general understanding >_< (well, partially it did, thanks :) ) Last year I've successfully avoided those mistakes. I guess I have just to stop participating in any unannounced AC discussions until the announcement and ignore whatever comes my way.


Yes, I agree. Let's not put any pressure on him.

I would be interested though what kind of dev he is.... :)

At this particular moment I'm far away from Canada working in my home country Moldova in a mobile/Facebook studio Peak Games designing casual match-3 games, nothing too exciting. :)

ArabianFrost
02-27-2014, 02:13 AM
Ease off the poor guy, you're putting him in a tricky situation here. He obviously can't comment, so don't put words in his mouth.

It was initially more light-hearted than intended, but you're right. My apologies.

pacmanate
02-27-2014, 02:20 PM
I don't get why AnvilX is any worse than AnvilNext...

I dont understand why AnvilX is a thing. Im pretty sure its not...

AnvilNext was MADE for the next generation, thats what they said when AC3 came out. If they have tweaked AnvilNext AGAIN for the next generation (which makes no sense), why give it a different name?

Basically:

AnvilNext = Built for next gen, we have had one game on it, AC4
AnvilX = Built for.. next gen again? Why?

Farlander1991
02-27-2014, 02:50 PM
Basically:

AnvilNext = Built for next gen, we have had one game on it, AC4
AnvilX = Built for.. next gen again? Why?

Different engine name doesn't mean that it's something that was built from scratch. A lot of times names serve iteration/identification purposes. The Anvil engine was called Scimitar engine during AC1 times, renamed Anvil for AC2 and some other games even though the base remained the same (though with additions as it was a different iteration, but almost every game features a different iteration) and it wasn't an engine reorganized from scratch.

And when you have several titles developed at the same time but with a different iteration of the engine (due to inclusion or exclusion of a different feature set depending on the project needs) it makes total sense for one of said iterations (which supposedly is going to have a lot more features adapted for PS4/X1 specifically) to have a different name to avoid confusion internally and focus appropriately.

Dome500
02-27-2014, 02:56 PM
AnvilNext = Built for next gen, we have had one game on it, AC4
AnvilX = Built for.. next gen again? Why?

Because Ubisoft logic....

I don't know.

prince162010
02-27-2014, 03:18 PM
AnvilX, sounds good :rolleyes:

Escappa
02-27-2014, 03:52 PM
When you google "AnvilX" the top result is a guy's twitter account; and one of his old posts is "happy st. Patrick's day"; so it seems like the next game will be set in Ireland

VoXngola
02-27-2014, 03:57 PM
When you google "AnvilX" the top result is a guy's twitter account; and one of his old posts is "happy st. Patrick's day"; so it seems like the next game will be set in Ireland


that's..not really a reason.:p

luckyto
02-27-2014, 04:10 PM
Given that I've been asked privately similar (and sometimes more detailed) questions about the details I know (though in a less tongue-in-cheek and more serious manner), I hope you don't mind if I put a general response using your quote to hopefully avoid any further discussions on the matter :)

First, I'm not a Ubi dev. I'm a dev who happens to be an AC fan. What I've learned a little bit more than a year ago about two in-development unannounced titles is not a huge center of knowledge from which I can tell everything, it's like a normal paragraph of info half of which everybody knows already because Black Flag was released.

Second, when game industry people mingle in a non-networking setting when they know eachother, sometimes they get a little beyond NDAs. However, that comes with the trust and understanding that the person on the receiving end is not going to run around yelling this info to everybody.

So, I am just participating in the discussion, like you all (and probably shouldn't have mentioned anything, but we're close to announcement anyway, so it won't matter soon) and a while ago I had no idea what Ubi is going to announce this year, though now I may have some (but I won't say if I'm sure or not :p ), but I'm not going to add, confirm or disapprove any info that's hasn't been announced, confirmed or disapproved by official channels.

Thank you.

lol ... You didn't have to go into explanation on my account. I was friendly prodding you. If you can't say, you can't say. No worries. I've signed my fair share of NDAs. I know the rules. :)

So where did you say it was again? ;)

Escappa
02-27-2014, 04:17 PM
that's..not really a reason.:p

It was a joke.

pacmanate
02-27-2014, 06:06 PM
Different engine name doesn't mean that it's something that was built from scratch. A lot of times names serve iteration/identification purposes. The Anvil engine was called Scimitar engine during AC1 times, renamed Anvil for AC2 and some other games even though the base remained the same (though with additions as it was a different iteration, but almost every game features a different iteration) and it wasn't an engine reorganized from scratch.

And when you have several titles developed at the same time but with a different iteration of the engine (due to inclusion or exclusion of a different feature set depending on the project needs) it makes total sense for one of said iterations (which supposedly is going to have a lot more features adapted for PS4/X1 specifically) to have a different name to avoid confusion internally and focus appropriately.

I know. But my point is they already built an engine for next gen.

Farlander1991
02-27-2014, 06:17 PM
I know. But my point is they already built an engine for next gen.

Yes, it was built with Next-Gen potential in mind, but back then next gen was still in development (after all, they started making it in 2010), which means there were loads of uncertainties and unanswered questions. And AC4, while also being developed for next gen and had some next-gen specific features, was still held back by current gen (so they couldn't use the actual next gen capabilities to full potential). So if such a thing like AnvilX exists, then it's not a new engine, and it doesn't discard AnvilNext. It's just an updated AnvilNext that takes full advantage of all the next-gen features they wanted to use (and which they'll be able to flesh out better now that next gen is actually out), and that has a different name to differentiate it internally, like a different branch.

Dome500
02-27-2014, 08:06 PM
Yes, it was built with Next-Gen potential in mind, but back then next gen was still in development (after all, they started making it in 2010), which means there were loads of uncertainties and unanswered questions. And AC4, while also being developed for next gen and had some next-gen specific features, was still held back by current gen (so they couldn't use the actual next gen capabilities to full potential). So if such a thing like AnvilX exists, then it's not a new engine, and it doesn't discard AnvilNext. It's just an updated AnvilNext that takes full advantage of all the next-gen features they wanted to use (and which they'll be able to flesh out better now that next gen is actually out), and that has a different name to differentiate it internally, like a different branch.

Exactly. He nailed it.