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View Full Version : no-icons is more fun



flyingskid2
03-07-2004, 09:06 AM
why?
because everybody tries to stay within visual range. it actually encourages furballs because you can't identify dots from afar. you have to get close to identify the plane. and even in the furball you mostly have to be concerned only with the closest planes to you. planes further out are just unidentified dots. they won't be chasing you because they don't know if you are friendly or not. dogfights practically become 1 vs 1. when you've identified an enemy plane, you concentrate on him. easier to survive too than when every enemy knows where you are because of icons.

flyingskid2
03-07-2004, 09:06 AM
why?
because everybody tries to stay within visual range. it actually encourages furballs because you can't identify dots from afar. you have to get close to identify the plane. and even in the furball you mostly have to be concerned only with the closest planes to you. planes further out are just unidentified dots. they won't be chasing you because they don't know if you are friendly or not. dogfights practically become 1 vs 1. when you've identified an enemy plane, you concentrate on him. easier to survive too than when every enemy knows where you are because of icons.

JG53_Gutted
03-07-2004, 09:25 AM
"when you've identified an enemy plane, you concentrate on him"

that will get you killed

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Bearcat99
03-07-2004, 04:55 PM
I agree...

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SKY_BOSS
03-07-2004, 05:26 PM
Yes. No icons is truely a treat. just wish more people would start hosting that way. Much better then look'n at a big icon hanging off the aircraft and kill the hud's it makes you so much more alert to whats going on with your aircraft.

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Mailman-
03-07-2004, 06:59 PM
Agree..no tow banners is more funhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BlackHawkLeader
03-07-2004, 08:31 PM
There is no point to having Icons and outside views really.
All you do is hit F6 and you padlock the nearest enemy in outside view closest to the centre of your screen.
Padlock is another arguement of course, as I remember Oleg did say Padlock was intended for realism because your virtual pilot could not move his head naturaly inside the **** pit, when spotting an enemy.
You would have to use the hat switch etc, and of course you can un padlock in an instant, so that you do not get caught un awares by another enemy pilot.

Sturmtrooper
03-07-2004, 11:10 PM
No icons are even more fun with Track IR !
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flyingskid2
03-07-2004, 11:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53_Gutted:
"when you've identified an enemy plane, you concentrate on him"

that will get you killed

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

within reason of course. you still have to check your six. but with no-icons you can get away with concentrating on an enemy more than you can with icons. that's because those dots far off in the distance are no threat. they don't know you are an opponent chasing their teammate, so they won't be hurrying after you.

boltonlam
03-08-2004, 12:16 AM
but......
In real world,the visual ranges is greater than we can see in the game from pc mon.

boltonlam
03-08-2004, 12:17 AM
but......
In real world,the visual ranges is greater than we can see in the game from pc mon.

necrobaron
03-08-2004, 12:21 AM
It all depends on the server settings but flying with no icons is simply frustrating for me. The last thing I want to do is shoot down someone on my own side,but it happens from time to time with no icons. If it's an historical setup,it's not too hard to tell friend from foe since only Axis would fly a K-4 and only allied would fly a 51,but even then you have to get pretty close to tell them apart. At least I do. To me the current limitations of a virtual evironment are simply too great to fly without icons.

"Not all who wander are lost."

HansKnappstick
03-08-2004, 12:29 AM
Although theoretically I admit that no-icons is a more realistic setting, I have also difficulties on my 800x600 to tell friend from foe from any reasonable distance...

I suppose, the no-icons favor those fast turning aircraft, where breaking your attack in the last moment and chosing another target in an instant does not do as much penalty to you as in a K-4? No whining, just a remark...

TooCooL34
03-08-2004, 01:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by boltonlam:
but......
In real world,the visual ranges is greater than we can see in the game from pc mon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
NOT.

If you have more than 19" monitor, over 1152 * 864 resolution, and 40+ fps, it's NOT.


=815=TooCooL34 in =815=Squad, South Korea

BM357_Raven
03-08-2004, 01:55 AM
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flyingskid2
03-08-2004, 08:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:
It all depends on the server settings but flying with no icons is simply frustrating for me. The last thing I want to do is shoot down someone on my own side,but it happens from time to time with no icons. If it's an historical setup,it's not too hard to tell friend from foe since only Axis would fly a K-4 and only allied would fly a 51,but even then you have to get pretty close to tell them apart. At least I do. To me the current limitations of a virtual evironment are simply too great to fly without icons.

"Not all who wander are lost."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do have to get very close to ID some planes too. I actually ignored a twin-fuselage plane thinking it was a P-38 (my side) and only after it shot me did I notice it was a BF109Z. I thought it was hilarious.

Unlike in real-life where better eyesight is an advantage. Here we're all looking at a screen 2 feet from our eyes. So it's the same for everybody. We all have to get very close to ID planes. That's why no-icons encourages furballs while at the same time make it safer for you.

flyingskid2
03-08-2004, 09:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HansKnappstick:
Although theoretically I admit that no-icons is a more realistic setting, I have also difficulties on my 800x600 to tell friend from foe from any reasonable distance...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is a reasonable distance? I don't know how it compares to real-life but I'm using 640x480 and I have to fly really close to ID the planes. I don't think the resolution makes a lot of difference, but I still have to try 1024x768 (max in my configuration). Some tricks for identifying planes:

- watch which planes the AA guns are shooting at. If you are at your base, they would be shooting at enemies, and vice-versa when you are at the enemies base.

- follow a known teammate, and attack whoever attacks him

- fly towards two dots firing at each other rather than two dots not firing. you are assured at least one of the dots is an enemy.

- follow a chase. one of them (either the chaser or the chasee will be your enemy). then you can help your teammate with the kill or escape.

- use the zoom view.

- when you've ID'd an enemy. don't lose him.

BaldieJr
03-08-2004, 09:14 AM
Planes can be seen clearly at 2km, including markings, if you use high-res and no AA/AF.

As I've said before: AEP changes everything.

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HansKnappstick
03-08-2004, 09:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyingskid2:
What is a reasonable distance?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No idea, but with anything less than 5km, I have no possibity of setting the attack up in my FW190... I am a very bad pilot, though, so my opinion is not a measure here.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
- when you've ID'd an enemy. don't lose him.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I did it yesterday and woke up with green tracers all around my plane. :-/

Thank you for the hits nevertheless http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Platypus_1.JaVA
03-08-2004, 09:24 AM
You should also learn wich side uses wich tracer colours. If you see lots of red tracers behind each-other, it is an american or british plane.

If you see lots of green tracers, it is Russian.

And so on...

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

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Teufel_Eldritch
03-08-2004, 09:26 AM
It isn't just a low rez thing...I fly at 1280X960 & I have probs ID'ing other aircraft. Its just something that is hard to do. I can't imagine what it must of been like for the real pilots.

YANKEE ROSE
-----------
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[This message was edited by Teufel_Eldritch on Mon March 08 2004 at 08:38 AM.]

Saburo_0
03-08-2004, 09:40 AM
I find no-icons frustrating. I hope to get a better monitor which might make it a little easier- couldn't believe how much nicer even forum avatars looked on my brother-in-laws new monitor. But I can't see upgrading ($) just for no-icons.
i am jsut a moderate Il2 FB addict tho, if I had more time to fly i might be more inclined to go without icons. (?)
Personally I wish there were more servers with just red & blue range indications for on-line -tho I can cycle my own icons to this setting of course.
Off-line I like to be able to easily ID the fellow who's wing I am supposed to be flying. makes it easier to cover him.
I already have my hat switch & 5 other buttons on my joystick set for views, even with icons on, so I don't want to make it any more difficult to see.

XyZspineZyX
03-08-2004, 10:20 AM
Here's my take on this:

1) The graphics system fails to allow a pilot to see dots consistently in situations in which he would see them. Human eyes are VERY good at picking out even small dots against the backdrop of terrain; it's the MOTION that attracts the eye

2) The graphics system fails to provide proper color and shape cues even at close range. Even zoomed in. How many times have you had a nice view of an unidentified plane inside 500 meters and been unable to see stars, crosses, colored bands or other identifiers? Happens all the time, even in high-light situations. These things would be very telltale IFF cues in real life. We don't always get them in this sim

3) Icons (in a well-designed system) give you this info. Provided they don't appear out to 10km (I prefer 3km for foes, 5km for friends), don't have too much information (I favor type only for enemy, friendly name and range), they make up for the shortcomings of the graphics system and provide for more realistic action.

4) Contrary to what some may say, icons do NOT ruin the bounce. I can bounce unaware pilots just as easily with icons on as off. They won't see me if they're not looking anyway.

perioikos
03-08-2004, 10:30 AM
It'd be nice to have a generic color icon, like a small dot, as a marker without giving additional information as an option. I tend to lose targets at medium range, and I think that the monitor makes identification harder than reality.