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View Full Version : What makes DoC unique and should be in BS2



tententai
02-13-2014, 11:03 PM
Base Set 2 will be introducing DoC to new players, and plays the important role of showing them why they should play DoC rather than another game.
Here is my opinion on what cards would really teach new players what DoC is about.

1. Cards using the grid-like battlefield
The grid is maybe the best feature of DoC in my opinion. It gives a lot of options to players and transforms creatures decks matchup in something really interesting while in other games it could stalls (MTG) or just bashing (HS). It allows you to think ahead and gives an edge to the best player. It also gives you the satisfaction of feeling you're progressing as a player.
A great card showcasing this is fireball. When you're a noob, you just get owned by it and cry that it's OP. Then you learn to play a bit and position your creatures in zig zag against fire heroes. And then you become really good and figure out the zig zag is not automatic and start calculating things like chances the opponent has a fireball vs the value of the pressure you would apply by putting your creatures in a line, and what if he really plays it how can you take advantage of the tempo, etc...
So having a few powerful spells that make players think about positioning is important.

2.Just a little bit of direct damage
The fact that you can't just stall and kill your opponent by pinging him to death is nice. But there should still be good cards for finishing off an opponent that took control of the board, like Paos. It really keeps you on the edge as the controlling player, or in case of damage races, you always have to keep in mind that these cards exist and adapt your strategy. And for the aggro player who felt behind, it gives you chance to still win, and you often have to plan "that turn when I'll launch my paos" carefully and long in advance. Withotu their existence it would just be too easy and game over once a control deck is installed. Maybe the omnipresence of Pao was a problem, but a slightly weaker version, and variants for some factions, would really be keeping games interesting.

3.Just a little bit of stall
Stall cards are good for the game, they enable diverse strategies. The problem now is that there are too many, or that they can be fetched and recursed: one could just spam them turn after turn. But for example a deck like Rushlock is so interesting to play because you have to plan that one pillage or prison just at the right time. We should keep that (maybe with something less brutal than prison, but pillage is fine in my book).

4.Some powerful fortunes, with limitations
At the moment I feel that the fortunes are too weak in BS2. A good aspect of DoC is the hero's stats management, both during deck building and the actual game. If you have only creatures and spells and a few revised tactics it's too easy. The problem we have now is that too many fortunes are too good, especially for neutral ones - but we shouldn't go too far in the other direction. Maybe make more powerful faction fortunes ? Or good neutral ones with high commitment (4+ in destiny) ?

5.Some tutors
Tutors give you options, options are strategic breath, and this is what DoC makes more attractive than HS in my opinion.

6.Not so many bad cards
Mark Rosewater had the same argument about Magic, "bad cards are needed so that new players can learn they are bad". Well, it is true to some extent, but should not be exagerated. How much skill do you really need to see that Pao Hunter is worse than Neophyte Lich ? Ok, it teaches you the price of being playable in any deck, but is it Worth so many slots in BS2 for trash cards ? You'll anyways make cards that are better than others, even if you tried to have them 100% balanced. And the learning curve in a CCG is so much more than just knowing which cards are better.

Ok, that was my feedback :-) Overall I'm very happy that we get 2 formats now, keep on the good work.

divad1126
02-14-2014, 07:41 AM
I don't have to agree with every conclusion in your thread to nod that you you have identified some strengths to DoC.

The grid lanes and lines are a very distinct feature of DoC and one that will make this game a hit for awhile longer.

... I'm done hating on BS2 and looking forward to what these developers put together. I can hope for two things; one) they do a lot more play testing and choose play testers that intentionally look to break the game. 2) they allow the tactical strategy of the game to be the most important part of the game. This means not making OP high swingy cards - but ones that really allow all levels of play to progress through thinking strategically.

Chess hasn't changed for years, would love to see a game that kept game balance as high a priority as that one.... then again it's evolved over several hundreds of years haha

Revalon
02-14-2014, 09:57 AM
I don't have to agree with every conclusion in your thread to nod that you you have identified some strengths to DoC.

The grid lanes and lines are a very distinct feature of DoC and one that will make this game a hit for awhile longer.

... I'm done hating on BS2 and looking forward to what these developers put together. I can hope for two things; one) they do a lot more play testing and choose play testers that intentionally look to break the game. 2) they allow the tactical strategy of the game to be the most important part of the game. This means not making OP high swingy cards - but ones that really allow all levels of play to progress through thinking strategically.

Chess hasn't changed for years, would love to see a game that kept game balance as high a priority as that one.... then again it's evolved over several hundreds of years haha


The problem with testing is that it's much harder than one thinks first. We see that after the release, some people find a deck/combo that is freakingly strong, and think that it was easy to find it and it should have beet found in the testing phase. Well, the community is much bigger than the testing team. I think that in the first week after the release we already can test much more than they could do if they didn't do anything else in the time they have. I don't think that their test players just build the nooby creature bashing decks and say "hey, everything's fine, let's throw it in the real world".

Then on the battlefield we have here, yes, it's a great feature, and gives many possibilities, but still I love stall, though, or maybe because it can ignore it. Maybe some stall/control that also uses the grid would be something nice for the future (for example more cards similar to Cyclone).


And then again, I don't think that it's appropriate to compare a card game to chess. In chess, every player starts with the same, there is no difference in what you have the possibilities to. You don't have luck in the way we have (there still is luck, but much more subtle - besides who gets to start). And there is no sense in talking about balance in chess, I hope it's obvious why.

VampFury
02-14-2014, 11:12 AM
My hopes are that they are planing to reintroduce those things in expansion after BS2. It's not like BS2 is last thing they will do. After that expansion we'll truly know if we should complain ^^