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View Full Version : Mitsubishi zero A6m5 in new patch.



Jieitai_Tsunami
05-21-2004, 07:11 AM
Hi all, I was just in a 1 v 1 server today and also talking to my friend online. I am sure that the Zeros turn and roll rates are way!! off. The zero has very small wings and is light like a biplane. The Bf109 even has about a 5x faster turn rate (Typo I mean roll http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) than the zero under 300ks! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. What are UBI softer thinking????

Does any one have any info on this?

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[This message was edited by Jieitai_Tsunami on Fri May 21 2004 at 12:47 PM.]

Jieitai_Tsunami
05-21-2004, 07:11 AM
Hi all, I was just in a 1 v 1 server today and also talking to my friend online. I am sure that the Zeros turn and roll rates are way!! off. The zero has very small wings and is light like a biplane. The Bf109 even has about a 5x faster turn rate (Typo I mean roll http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) than the zero under 300ks! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. What are UBI softer thinking????

Does any one have any info on this?

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[This message was edited by Jieitai_Tsunami on Fri May 21 2004 at 12:47 PM.]

MEGILE
05-21-2004, 07:33 AM
Il2 compare would disagree with you Tsunami.

Under 300kts at 1000m the A6M5a has a much quicker turn time than the Bf-109G-2,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The Bf109 even has about a 5x faster turn rate than the zero under <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I assume your meaning turn rate instead of roll rate here..
if this was true then the 109G2 for example at 300 kts and 1000m ASL with no flaps would turn at about 3.4 m/s, ie. it could turn 360 degrees in less than 4 secs.. now that is uber.

As far as the roll rate goes, yeah it seems pretty slow... but whether this is realstic or not is another question

pourshot
05-21-2004, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jieitai_Tsunami:
Hi all, I was just in a 1 v 1 server today and also talking to my friend online. I am sure that the Zeros turn and roll rates are way!! off. The zero has very small wings and is light like a biplane. The Bf109 even has about a 5x faster turn rate than the zero under 300ks! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. What are UBI softer thinking????

Does any one have any info on this?

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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Could you show us a track so we understand exactly what you feel is the problem, but you should know that as the speed goes up the zero's handling goes down. AFAIK the best speed for the zero was around 260 mph over this and the controls get heavy.

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Zyzbot
05-21-2004, 08:15 AM
Quote from Japanese Zero ace Saburo Sakai on the Zero's maneuverability.Should make things clear:


"Oh yes, the Zero was incredibly maneuverable, but not over about 250 mph. Above that speed, the stick just gets too heavy because the plane's control surfaces are so huge. You've seen those films of kamikaze plunging straight down into the water far from any U.S. ships, right? The kids in those planes probably put their planes into a dive way too early, and before they realized their mistake, they had too much speed built up to pull out of their dive. They probably died pulling desperately on the stick with all their strength. When I coached those kids [kamikaze pilots], I'd tell them, "If you've gotta die, you at least want to hit your target, right? If so, then go in low, skimming the water. Don't dive on your target. You lose control in a dive. You risk getting picked off by a fighter, but you've got better chance of hitting your target."

MAstaKFC
05-21-2004, 08:30 AM
I usually fly a Zero myself ingame and I can tell you, you don't really want to be going too fast with the Zero. From personal experience, 300~350kph seems to be the best speed for turning and DF, maybe even 250, but at that speed you won't really be catching them BnZ planes. Roll for zero doesn't seem to be on par with it's turn rates, but apparently that is historically correct.

KIMURA
05-21-2004, 09:48 AM
US-tests that were made in 1946 in Maryland states clearly the A6M5 rolls equal or slighly better than the Seafire IIC (navalized Spit Vb) up to 300kph and turns better by far. But I CAN'T see that modelled in FB. The Spit is rolling faster - not a little bit, rather the Spit rolls faster by a big amount. It's really a surprisingly hpenomenon to see that some a/c FM changes all the way, from patch to patch - better said some get some lead filled into it's tanks instead of fuel. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Kimura

geetarman
05-21-2004, 10:14 AM
Have not flown the Zero since the patch, but, the way it was modelled prior, it turned so well I really didn't care about the slow roll!

HayateKid
05-21-2004, 10:15 AM
The P-47 stole some of the Zero's roll rate.

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Giganoni
05-21-2004, 11:36 AM
Hmm, then perhaps they just made sure the turn rate would be worse at higher speeds which seems to be historically correct. I think people are still complaining about stalls though.

Jieitai_Tsunami
05-21-2004, 01:51 PM
I see another post on the Pacific forum about this by Kimura. I tested again by my self and I think I was trying to turn a little to fast but if the roll rate seems soooo! slow. I'll try and make a track you can down load but it is hard to set one up right...

WUAF_Badsight
05-21-2004, 04:37 PM
the Zero in FB does roill better as the speed decreases

but it still seems slow to me

especially the A6M5

Bull_dog_
05-21-2004, 05:38 PM
Things I have read about the zero state at very slow speeds....under 250mph the zeke had a good rate of roll...not uber, but very competitive...but get over that speed and things went south real fast and the plane just couldn't roll at speed worth a darn.

MAstaKFC
05-21-2004, 07:14 PM
Well, my impression is that the current Zero roll rates are quite poor, even if it is traveling at slower speeds.

Kimura: Is there somewhere were I can get my hands on this information? Perhaps if we presented it to Oleg, he might be able to up the roll rates in the next patch.

XyZspineZyX
05-21-2004, 07:20 PM
Tsunami wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The zero has very small wings and is light like a biplane. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. The Zero had average sized wings for its overall size, and if it had a smaller wingspan that was to maximize carrier storage area, just like its contemporaries; it also had HUGE control surfaces for its size. And it was not "biplane" light. At some 5500 lbs in weight, compare it to a Gloster Gladiator at 4800 lbs fully loaded for bear.

Hawgdog
05-21-2004, 08:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zyzbot:
Quote from Japanese Zero ace Saburo Sakai on the Zero's maneuverability.Should make things clear:


"Oh yes, the Zero was incredibly maneuverable, but not over about 250 mph. Above that speed, the stick just gets too heavy because the plane's control surfaces are so huge. You've seen those films of kamikaze plunging straight down into the water far from any U.S. ships, right? The kids in those planes probably put their planes into a dive way too early, and before they realized their mistake, they had too much speed built up to pull out of their dive. They probably died pulling desperately on the stick with all their strength. When I coached those kids [kamikaze pilots], I'd tell them, "If you've gotta die, you at least want to hit your target, right? If so, then go in low, skimming the water. Don't dive on your target. You lose control in a dive. You risk getting picked off by a fighter, but you've got better chance of hitting your target."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

whoa........wow, some advice!

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VW-IceFire
05-21-2004, 10:43 PM
According to the NACA roll rate chart that floats around every so often...the Zero they tested had a roll rate that was at the bottom of the chart which was shared by the Typhoon (with a very similar roll rate but with a higher speed at which maximum rate was achieved). Neither of them came anywhere close to the other aircraft on the list (Spitfire, FW190, P-47, P-38, etc.)...this seems consistent with in-game experience.

The turn rate on the other hand was the Zero's forte...and it seems well inhand.

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LeadSpitter_
05-21-2004, 11:02 PM
Zero was the slowest rolling fighter of wwii. excellent manueverability came from its rudder and elevator.

If you look at the naca charts you can see, the thing is with the degrees a second, the best rolling aircraft the 190 vs the worst rolling aircraft is only 3-4 seconds. In this game certain aircraft are almost tripling thier roll rates when a snap roll is induced.

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PikeBishop
05-22-2004, 03:17 AM
Will people please take on board the fact that that roll rate chart is for the A6M2 model 21.
The A6M3 and A6M5 had a much better rollrate a factor that the Japanese made a point of improving but I have never found any charts to confirm, only hearsay evidence......there must be data somewhere.....

regards,

SLP