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View Full Version : Oleg please look at this Poll about the Ki-84 DM



Osirisx9
03-18-2004, 11:59 AM

Osirisx9
03-18-2004, 11:59 AM

clint-ruin
03-18-2004, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
I, like so many others are troubled by the dammage model of this thing (AKA Ki-84) This aircraft can take way too much dammage and still fly as if it hasn't been dammaged at all. Just today, Online, I hit one with ten 37mm rounds.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Online DM tests - ones performed non-locally - can produce weird results. Best to ask for an ntrk from the target and see if his end actually agrees about being hit 10 times first. Prediction code vs real network traffic is generally responsible for that kind of weirdness in online gaming. Ever played Quake 3 and heard the Mortal Kombat style announcer say "DENIED!", after the server sorted out what actually happened, from what was predicted to have happened on your client?

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

Capt._Tenneal
03-18-2004, 12:16 PM
There might be something to what you say clint-ruin. I've run 1 vs. 1 DF with the Ki-84 against varous opponents in QMB with both AI pilots (to remove the human factor), and some they've beaten and some got the better of them. And those that beat the Ki-84 did so rather easily once they got the guns zeroed in -- no soaking up damage at all.

Kwiatos
03-18-2004, 12:19 PM
But not only Ki-84 DM is overdone http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

clint-ruin
03-18-2004, 12:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt._Tenneal:
There might be something to what you say clint-ruin. I've run 1 vs. 1 DF with the Ki-84 against varous opponents in QMB with both AI pilots (to remove the human factor), and some they've beaten and some got the better of them. And those that beat the Ki-84 did so rather easily once they got the guns zeroed in -- no soaking up damage at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've generally found the same. Some DMs have tough bits and weak bits, and they're not always in logical places, but every plane in the game takes a 'reasonable' amount of damage before a terminal failure, erring on the forgiving side most of the time. Still - as I keep saying - one single AP round from any 20mm cannon is enough to absolutely finish most planes, either by a PK or engine kill. You just need to position yourself to get that shot, which is the tricky part :&gt;

It's interesting to look gun/DM modelling from the outside of the game, without having access to the guts of the code.

Planes like the Bf109 - which are generally regarded as some of the most fragile - are actually gluttons for punishment in some cases of offline testing. Sections of the DM, particularly the rear fuselage, are up there with the P-47 for toughness. I think if you told an online-only player that, they'd laugh themselves silly. Online, it seems like the Ki-84 and Yak3 and La-x and I-16 and I-153 series are regarded as the toughest. I-16's been weakened considerably past 1.11 after user complaints, but Plumps_ showed that it's something you could get 6 "destroyed" kills and 11 "unflyable" kills on, offline, even with the reduced ammo load 109Fs.

Those planes have things in common.

They are all very high speed planes, or very agile planes, or very small, and for some their maximum agility [meaning their 'ability to not be in the same place on a predictable course as it was a second ago'] is at mid-high speed [360-400+]. In the case of the I-153, its DM breaks down into a large number of sections and is one of the tightest turning planes in the game. The I-16s we have in the game aren't all that slow, and they're also very small.

What effect this has on network prediction code is maybe .. predictable. Particularly if those planes are played as energy/turn fight style planes rather than as e-conserving B&Z where the aim is to keep steady to avoid E loss. I would be interested to see how many of these cases of "10 37mm hits" on those kinds of planes -really- happened according to both sides.

Not intended as any kind of bias rant or anti-whine whine, just a possible explanation for what people perceive to have happened differing from what "really" happened according to the server. Prediction code is only so good and can only predict so far ahead before it's useless.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

DangerForward
03-18-2004, 02:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
I, like so many others are troubled by the dammage model of this thing (AKA Ki-84) This aircraft can take way too much dammage and still fly as if it hasn't been dammaged at all. Just today, Online, I hit one with ten 37mm rounds.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Online DM tests - ones performed non-locally - can produce weird results. Best to ask for an ntrk from the target and see if his end actually agrees about being hit 10 times first. Prediction code vs real network traffic is generally responsible for that kind of weirdness in online gaming. Ever played Quake 3 and heard the Mortal Kombat style announcer say "DENIED!", after the server sorted out what actually happened, from what was predicted to have happened on your client?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suspect also that we're seeing wierd online damage affects since no one is using a Dedicated Server version of AEP. We may have all got used to the extra network performance that setup gives...

DangerForward

Osirisx9
03-18-2004, 06:22 PM
S~ everyone... I can respect the fact that there are some issues that deal with the connections to the iternet. However this aircraft (Ki-84) seems to be one of the two ...The other aircraft being the La-7 that cosistantly takes an enormous amount of ammo to bring down. The Ki-84 by far being the worse ( in my opinion) This thing can take more hits than the P-47s and P-38s. Its funny that in the same game I easily shot down He-111s with three hits , and Bf 110s with one or two hits but the Ki-84 required ten hits. Also I must admit that 10 hits is the most extreem I've seen but it usually takes me at least 4 37mms to bring down the Ki-84 unless I hit a wingtip, or the canopy. Anywhere else is just a waste of ammo. This BTW includeds all of the sessions that I'm in.
Respectfully

Osiris_X9

WUAF_Badsight
03-18-2004, 08:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:

The Ki-84 by far being the worse ( in my opinion) This thing can take more hits than the P-47s and P-38s. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i couldnt disagree more

the KI is FAR from being as tuff as a P-47

no contest

& furthermore the KI loses its good handeling after wing hits

just MG properly hitting the wing & , poof , your handeling vanishes

kweassa
03-18-2004, 08:46 PM
Apparently, every other plane that I'm not flying right at this moment, is always overmodelled... and every plane I'm flying right now, is undermodelled.

That's usually how things go around in the world of flight sim games.

Osirisx9
03-19-2004, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:

The Ki-84 by far being the worse ( in my opinion) This thing can take more hits than the P-47s and P-38s. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i couldnt disagree more
the KI is FAR from being as tuff as a P-47

no contest

& furthermore the KI loses its good handeling after wing hits

just MG properly hitting the wing & , poof , your handeling vanishes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well its good that you disagree. I still hold on to my opinion. Besides there is no way you can tell what kind of control forces the Ki pilot is using after you hit him, especially if your in the aircraft that you trying to shoot him down with. I've also flown the Ki-84 on and offline and even after I've taken numerous hits, I was still able to outfly the poor sap trying to shoot me down and shoot him down . I would be the first to admit that I'm not Joe super Pilot too. I might get allot of kills online, but its usually because I try to outthink my oponent rather than outfly him. I actually preffer flying the big Multiengine birds.

Osiris_X9

El Turo
03-19-2004, 09:57 AM
Ditto.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
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