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VampFury
02-08-2014, 07:30 PM
Read carefully and think hard (players and DoC team alike).

Section I
Base Set 2 general feedback
*or message to Base set 2 naysayers!

To all those people that are against introducing BS2 and two different formats - open and standard I just have to say, you people don't know what you are talking about. No offense.

MTG is game that is here for 20 years and it has legacy and standard formats - recently introduced a modern (not restricted to few editions like standard, but not all editions allowed like legacy) . It is good to rotate sets to avoid excessive power creep!

In DoC this is a first time it is introduced so it is ok to be a bit sceptical especially if you haven't played other card games with that concept. This is to help new players get introduced to game. You have one "light weight" format that has limited amount of cards and is suited for players joining and you have "heavy weight" format with ALL cards. So note that NO card got obsolete in this process.
You can play Swiss and Jackpot every day like you did so far. Nothing has changed. You can even ignore standard format if you don't like it. Consider us in open format already... and ignore standard when it is introduced if you don't like it. That simple. No one "wasted" any money, seals, gold...

All concerns about limited amount of cards and strategies in BS2, please think hard. They are preparing new expansion as we speak. And I am not talking about BS2 which should not be even considered as expansion, more like introduction to set rotations and new format. BS2 is not going to be only card pool forever! We will have to figure out "non powerful" strategies of standard format. It needs some time. And than standard meta will be semi-explored or explored and it will get new expansion that can broaden strategies and expand and shift the meta!
It will be good to see meta without heavy stall and control deck for some players. Don't be selfish. It's not we are never going to see stall or control deck again. New expansion might change that in a second! Some players will like new creature based format. A lot of posts here on forum are EGOcentric - "I lost, nerf pls"... Think a bit about others people.. please! Mind that I am writing this and I have play it all and play against it all. I don't mind ANY strategy personally! And here is challenge for stall lovers, can you do it with very, very limited amount of stall cards? :)

You might say I am defending Ubi for one reason or other, but you are wrong. Here is critique!
BIG CONERN: Removing packs from shop. That is what I am worried. Open format should not be that exclusive as to be only available through Altar! I would like to see "open packs" (that sounds stupid) for players to buy. Something like Emillio for non-standard cards!
THINK Ubi - you are digital card game. You DO NOT go "out of print"! Don't limit yourself (and your players) with limitations that digital card game don't have!!!

There is petition thread for keeping old sets available to buy for gold in which I'll vote for sure. I urge other players who feel the same to vote also here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/832772-Petition-Old-sets-should-be-still-avaible-for-gold

Section II
Base set 2 card review

I did it here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/832417-Base-Set-Two-Card-List-Feedback-Thread-Event#2

Section III
DoC incentive to play

So I already said I am happy with open and standard formats as long as they keep older card available for buying (outside of Altar), but there is a greater concern I am having.
There is a thread I made and many players contributed about DoC improvements here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/814479-DoC-improvements-topic-%28in-depth-analysis-and-discussion%29 (after BS2 there'll need to be changes in that thread)
Out of those I would like to point out some of pressing ones.
At the moment there is little incentive to play DoC. Especially for older players. And I am not talking about meta, so BS2 will not help. It is current system.

- Current (elo) system needs rework. As it is now a lot of older players don't have anything to play for. It's just endless elo grind.
We have all cards and play all decks and only thing we are gaining is useless elo that can be lost with one loss. Many of older players are losing interest to play, trust me on this one. Only part that is semi-fun is Jackpot where you are playing against tougher opponent.
Why is system bad? First elo system in it's current form isn't supporting players that play. You go to 1600+ elo, and you stop for a bit. Just to "be there" for a while. And second, there is nothing you actually gain with upping your elo in the first place.
You don't even have "casual" play. In theory you can play against friends or online opponents, but that doesn't work! In other games, eg. LoL, SC2 even HS you have non-ranked games where you can play and test for fun. In this system if you are not at elo floor you can lose elo in every game in every format - ladder, swiss and jackpot!
Game should give you incentive to play and not incentive not to play!

My suggestion is league system, but any other that gives more incentive to play can be implemented. With league system - we could have something to strive for. Higher league, higher place in league. And you do resets at least once a year, maybe even more frequent. Some rewards for being in certain league and certain place - even something small like banner is good enough, so it doesn't have to be something that influences economy that much. For best players of best league, they get some exclusive alternate art.
I know a lot of players wouldn't mind waiting a bit more for a match if it is someone of their rank. And there could be casual games for those that just want some fast games.

- Decay in elo. I think that al-kazar shouldn't be 1st on ladder. Jkkk89 was 2nd with 1642 elo and in my mind he was first as al-kazar isn't active for a long, long time. You shouldn't be able to reach some elo and stop playing and stay there forever. Whatever system you chose to have this should be implemented.

- Ubi tournaments.
Except World Tournament there is not (m)any Ubi supported tournaments in which we could compete. Yes we have player based tournaments, and I am grateful to those players, but I am not satisfied with just that. I would like some official tournaments. If you are promoting e-sports competition and there is no competition.


I know I spammed a bit these three questions lately - especially first one, but I believe that this is MOST important thing right now. Give players incentive to play or all other moves are not important. Do not be late with this as you were with some other implementation as I think that you are losing players interest as we speak - good and dedicated players. They have nothing to play for.
I know I personally would have a greater wish to play with some changes along these lines...

Hope I didn't forget to address any of the pressing issues. I'll be happy to do it if reminded and to reply to any useful comments!

Sincerely, your VampFury - 2x top10 ladder player, top streamer, dedicated player and community member and one who wants to see DoC to it's full potential.

trupiciel
02-08-2014, 07:43 PM
Read carefully and think hard (players and DoC team alike).

(...)



Thank you so much for posting this VampFury. I agree with everything.

hansohans
02-08-2014, 07:54 PM
Nice article, I think the same. The new format could be a good start for new player which when they have base set 2 complete can switch to the old card sets. But if the old card sets will only be available with wildcards they will need years to complete a old edition deck. I think when they change that old sets prices from WC to gold noone will have a problem. For me it seems like they want to get the old sets out of the meta.

iharderages
02-08-2014, 08:23 PM
Thanks for the support!

Belemil
02-08-2014, 08:49 PM
Agree to everything you wrote. Interesting thoughts and after I read this Im not against the new base set anymore, as long as get to keep the possibility to buy the old cards with gold and play with the old deck as we are now.

Thumbs up!

bek003
02-08-2014, 09:07 PM
Really great post and i agree with everythink.

Romeomaux
02-08-2014, 09:43 PM
Very interesting post make by a very crazy guy (I'm kidding ;)). You analysis of the situation is pretty deep concerning the both, good and bad of this situation. I didn't read the lost part but for the first one any your feddback concerning the card you're pretty right.
Thanks to take time to do so and thank you to show me the link to the petition, I didn't know someone did it.

Take care and see you in the game...

Milky97
02-08-2014, 11:15 PM
Couldnt have spoken more our of my mind vamp. Everybody listen to this!

shel37
02-08-2014, 11:42 PM
Totally agree!!

Boke_WE
02-08-2014, 11:48 PM
Nice post! Vamp #1 Fan :D

TheShoeSalesman
02-09-2014, 12:15 AM
Base Set 2 is a good idea, but the implantation is foolish. The removing of achievements for the old cards is a bad decision. The removing of the old packs is a bad decision too. Just patch the new set + system into the game without other changes for the game in this section. But, no, the voice is talking "money, money, money" the whole day.

zkolo
02-09-2014, 02:28 PM
rotation is generaly good idea, but that way that it will be in DoC its just a bit wrong way

in MtG rotation works like that - one in, one out
whereas in DoC rotation would be - one in, everything out

on MtG there is one year must passed that expansion will be pushed out from standard format by other expansion - in DoC - 5T will be pushed out in 4 month...
that's really short period of time, especially that ubi wanna keep them as reward in swiss tournament, where most cards will be useless in standard format

problem is in that ubi in first expansion added new faction, so they cant now remove only first expansion when next will come in - that would cut off sanctuary from meta.
they cant do the same with FW - making Base Set 2 with old cards is good idea but removing all other cards from accesability (new players wont spend 150-250 wildcards to make deck that work in open format jackpot) is really bad idea.

for me - in that 1,5 month i know that i wouldnt be able to collect all cards and if open format will consist cards avaliable only by wildcards - that will force me to play only in standard format. and if i know now that in 1,5 month i will play only in standard format - why should i spend gold and seals now? i just keep them and wait for new expansion - so with good winds to april... we will see if DoC will be same exciting for 2 month without buying any new pack in that time, or it will be enough exciting to still play it

mootzyugo
02-09-2014, 02:50 PM
+1 with the suggestions developped by Vampfury. I totally agree !

Przemysek88
02-09-2014, 03:08 PM
Nothing to add Vamp said everything that should be said so now just have to repeat that until somebody listen (yes i'm watching at you UBI).
Vamp + 1 keep up the good work.

Falux79
02-09-2014, 03:16 PM
Really good post. Congratulations. I quote eveything Vampfury

EndlessRamble
02-09-2014, 04:51 PM
BS2 seems very bland and vanilla to me, although I might be able to swallow that and wait for future expansions to change that if it weren't for one point Vampfury touched on.

Open format is designed to DIE! It's a digital format but you can only get BS1 cards through Altar of Wishes? Who is going to play that then? Answer: No One. Old players won't want to 'waste' wild cards finishing their collections when they can use them on new BS2 expansion cards useable in both formats. New players will have a nearly insurmountable barrier to entry to open format and almost certainly won't play in it.

A decision like that means Ubi intends for open to wither and die from day one as the playerbase for it slowly diminishes. Why? Is it because we already bought those old cards anyways so all their income will come from BS2 packs? Then what, we dump in more when BS3 comes around?

What a joke, ridiculously obvious cash grab disguised under 'helping new players'.

I was holding out hope for this game with competition like Hearthstone coming into open beta, but the motivation is completely gone now seeing ubisofts priorities. Figuring out how to milk more money off you while a draft mode is 'sometime in the future' even though a single enthusiastic fan has made a working DoC draft already. But hey guys the systems are "VERY COMPLICATED"

After 200 levels I finally stopped logging in for daily rewards yesterday, it wasn't even out of spite it was because I had so little enthusiasm I just forgot to log on.

valrond1
02-09-2014, 05:53 PM
I agree completely with the OP. Very nice post, indeed. I think it summarizes the opinions of most of the people that currently play and support this great game.
I hope that Ubisoft takes this feedback into account, or they won't have a CCG game for long.

GustavXIII
02-09-2014, 06:09 PM
This post sums up my thoughts nicely. Well done vamp i hvala.

The team made the right call with BS2 imho. Creating a new, solid base to introduce a hopefully good expansion after BS2. Some troublemaker cards like the unique spells, Prison or the graveyard recursion opened the doors to "abusive", annoying strategies and sometimes for non-interactive games like the prison lock. Which simply shouldnt exist. I hope this cut was made just in time.


I cant stress out enough that the expansion after BS2 has to deliver something really good!!!!

bluekiitos
02-09-2014, 07:46 PM
Thank you Vamp for the awesome post! These are all great suggestions that would help the game improve a lot. I really hope the devs are listening.

I completely agree on the matter of BS1 cards only available in altar of wishes... it is absolutely understandable that they can't leave the old packs as they are in the shop, but a new Emilio-like pack (and box) would be a good solution to keep the playerbase happy.

I would like to add a couple of (minor) things:
-I hope we will be told before BS2 is released how will prices change in the altar of wishes.
-The devs should release a list with the achievements that will be removed asap, so people can plan ahead.

windspear7007
02-10-2014, 02:54 AM
great post!total agree!

svilleneuve
02-10-2014, 04:10 PM
Very nice!

While the Base Set 2 reveal did hint at what's coming, its focus was on the list of cards and not on what we plan to have with the update. There's a lot of changes coming and comments like these are helping us a lot.

Thanks for your support :)

AsaelShi
02-10-2014, 05:09 PM
I only have one concern, a whine if you will.... Five Towers Expansion was a bit of a let down in terms of gameplay. The biggest change was Night of the Rising Moon.... apart from that well the meta didn't change that much in my opinion. The biggest issue I have is that the base set 2 patch is to be deployed around late march maybe april, but it will not add any new cards. Yes it will change the game in a variety of ways however it is still a bit late considering Five Towers was neither big nor game changing.....

Serpicuz
02-10-2014, 05:33 PM
magic is a little bit different,
at the beginning was Vintage and standard. Then they introduce Extended and block.
Extended became Legacy and recently Wizard created moderm(all the card with the new layout).
In the meanwhile Wizars didn't support Vintage, and now they are doing the same with the legacy, cause modern succesfull.

And it isn't one out one in. In standard when there is a rotation an entire block goes out(3 expansions) and one goes in.

But the main point is variety. More formats and tournaments are avaialbe for the player more fun and money the put in it.

vampfire excuse me, then I will use your topic to make a few comments on the new base set

Elementalist.
02-10-2014, 05:47 PM
Nice thread mate, it was a good read :)

jkk89
02-10-2014, 05:59 PM
I just very dislike the base set 2 card selection (well, I think it is just awfull), but I totally agree with points raised by VampFury. The elo system as it is now is just so wrong. And the matchmaking... When I was above 1600 elo playing ladder I was matched with 800 elo, 7 level guy. And I realy dont like the 1500 elo barier and what "1500" has become: I really dont like how all 1500 elo players have the same elo and there is a HUGE! difference in their skill-level. 1500 is sooo easy to reach right now: U could ask how would I know?? well I've actually drop my elo on porpouse to 1000 elo and got to almost 1600 elo in just 1 day of playing. And I was playing very bad that day.

Cyony
02-10-2014, 07:17 PM
BS2 seems very bland and vanilla to me, although I might be able to swallow that and wait for future expansions to change that if it weren't for one point Vampfury touched on.

Open format is designed to DIE! It's a digital format but you can only get BS1 cards through Altar of Wishes? Who is going to play that then? Answer: No One. Old players won't want to 'waste' wild cards finishing their collections when they can use them on new BS2 expansion cards useable in both formats. New players will have a nearly insurmountable barrier to entry to open format and almost certainly won't play in it.

A decision like that means Ubi intends for open to wither and die from day one as the playerbase for it slowly diminishes. Why? Is it because we already bought those old cards anyways so all their income will come from BS2 packs? Then what, we dump in more when BS3 comes around?

What a joke, ridiculously obvious cash grab disguised under 'helping new players'.

I was holding out hope for this game with competition like Hearthstone coming into open beta, but the motivation is completely gone now seeing ubisofts priorities. Figuring out how to milk more money off you while a draft mode is 'sometime in the future' even though a single enthusiastic fan has made a working DoC draft already. But hey guys the systems are "VERY COMPLICATED"

After 200 levels I finally stopped logging in for daily rewards yesterday, it wasn't even out of spite it was because I had so little enthusiasm I just forgot to log on.

Could you please explain to me, how Ubisoft is supposed to make money, when 70+% of the cards are not buy-able anymore and the cards that are, are mostly common or uncommons that everyone already has? There is VERY little money to make from baseset 2. and sure, when the next expansion comes out. people will want to spend money on it. That happened before and it will happen again. If they realy wanted to make money, they would make more cards much more quickly AND they would have released draft, because it would have been so incredibly easy to just make a simple buy-in draft.

Now that is not to say i agree with everything they do, i think that BS2 is a rather lazy addition to the game. I atleast expected some new cards. And i also beleive that if they do not release an expansion within lets say a 2 month time span, that people are going to get bored as hell because of the incredibly limited card variety.

well anyway, i can only hope good things come to this game and that it speeds up on it's content production.

EndlessRamble
02-10-2014, 08:47 PM
Could you please explain to me, how Ubisoft is supposed to make money, when 70+% of the cards are not buy-able anymore and the cards that are, are mostly common or uncommons that everyone already has? There is VERY little money to make from baseset 2. and sure, when the next expansion comes out. people will want to spend money on it. That happened before and it will happen again. If they realy wanted to make money, they would make more cards much more quickly AND they would have released draft, because it would have been so incredibly easy to just make a simple buy-in draft.

Now that is not to say i agree with everything they do, i think that BS2 is a rather lazy addition to the game. I atleast expected some new cards. And i also beleive that if they do not release an expansion within lets say a 2 month time span, that people are going to get bored as hell because of the incredibly limited card variety.

well anyway, i can only hope good things come to this game and that it speeds up on it's content production.

Because it 'resets' peoples collections by releasing a new base set.
For example if they released another expansion now, due to the quality of all previous expansions there would only be a few desirable cards that people could aim for with their wild cards (like 5T for example)

But when you 'reset' the card pool then all of a sudden a vast majority of the next expansion because playable cards you need for your collection so you have to buy a ton of it to stay competitive.

For example say they released the next expansion now. Cards (even rares and epics) would have to be better than cards like Tainted Orc, Lilim, Broken Bridge, Cosmic Realignment, etc etc for people to get them. 5 Towers was a small set, but it wasn't as weak as people thought. We just had so many quality cards already that people could build good decks without having to dip heavily into 5 towers. Only a few cards where 'must haves' like Night of the Rising Moon.

But since you have effectively wiped the card pool with Base Set 2 then anything remotely resembling that power level in the new expansion would basically HAVE to be bought for you to stay competitive a the top tiers, this is AMPLIFIED by how weak the base set 2 cards are. Now when the next expansion hits your base set 2 deck is full of such anemic cards that you will likely get slaughtered unless you invest heavily into whatever new expansions they release.

This is kind of lame but a relatively known business practice, it is worse here because
A) There seems to be no intention of supporting open format so your old cards are basically wasted time and effort.
B) This is a digital game why do things go out of print to begin with? Taking old sets into altar of wishes status only when they are not physical cards means you want that format to die out,
C) This precedent means anytime they want to 'reset' the game to make more money then they can just release a base set 3 and you are up **** creek again
D) This is not nearly the same as MTG rotation system. There they have a robust system with multiple formats. If you buy cards for the latest 'standard' and it rotates out, you can sell/trade your cards to Extended or Modern format players. Here there is no such support
E) Base Set two is BLAND AS HELL. That means if this rotation system becomes the norm with a vanilla base set to appeal to new players, everytime we have a new rotation we will have a long period of incredibly boring metagames because the card pools are weak and uninteresting. FUN

Cyony
02-10-2014, 09:11 PM
Because it 'resets' peoples collections by releasing a new base set.
For example if they released another expansion now, due to the quality of all previous expansions there would only be a few desirable cards that people could aim for with their wild cards (like 5T for example)

But when you 'reset' the card pool then all of a sudden a vast majority of the next expansion because playable cards you need for your collection so you have to buy a ton of it to stay competitive.

For example say they released the next expansion now. Cards (even rares and epics) would have to be better than cards like Tainted Orc, Lilim, Broken Bridge, Cosmic Realignment, etc etc for people to get them. 5 Towers was a small set, but it wasn't as weak as people thought. We just had so many quality cards already that people could build good decks without having to dip heavily into 5 towers. Only a few cards where 'must haves' like Night of the Rising Moon.

But since you have effectively wiped the card pool with Base Set 2 then anything remotely resembling that power level in the new expansion would basically HAVE to be bought for you to stay competitive a the top tiers, this is AMPLIFIED by how weak the base set 2 cards are. Now when the next expansion hits your base set 2 deck is full of such anemic cards that you will likely get slaughtered unless you invest heavily into whatever new expansions they release.

This is kind of lame but a relatively known business practice, it is worse here because
A) There seems to be no intention of supporting open format so your old cards are basically wasted time and effort.
B) This is a digital game why do things go out of print to begin with? Taking old sets into altar of wishes status only when they are not physical cards means you want that format to die out,
C) This precedent means anytime they want to 'reset' the game to make more money then they can just release a base set 3 and you are up **** creek again
D) This is not nearly the same as MTG rotation system. There they have a robust system with multiple formats. If you buy cards for the latest 'standard' and it rotates out, you can sell/trade your cards to Extended or Modern format players. Here there is no such support
E) Base Set two is BLAND AS HELL. That means if this rotation system becomes the norm with a vanilla base set to appeal to new players, everytime we have a new rotation we will have a long period of incredibly boring metagames because the card pools are weak and uninteresting. FUN

But who is to say that the next expansion is going to bring in a new tier of power and to begin with, Whilst your argument might be true in the future, you have no proof this is going to be the case. Don't get me wrong, i don't approve of everything that is happening in BS2, like i said, i think it's lazy and if they don't add content. the game will die out.

However, the fact they decided to pretty much invalidate Base set 1 cards for competitive play is a HUGE risk for a game that is already on the downfall (you are not the only one who has the same opinion about bs2 and they will lose players with moves like this). This alone tells me they are trying to make the game more appealing and more enjoyable in the future. Because think of it this way. Everyone knows the current meta is bonkers and there is alot wrong with it. There isn't just one solution to the problem, because there are alot of those problems. So what would an expansion then actualy bring us? Either cards that cannot be used because the meta is so strong, they will have no place in any deck. OR you will bring out a new power level and pretty much make everything else obsolete.

Now that they atleast removed most of these troublemakers. They can actualy start to make cards interesting. I for one think that they should never EVER make a new creature card that has no inherent abilities or traits other then one or two filler cards to help ease a mana curve for a faction that needs it. Nobody wants to see a new tainted orc or a war oliphant, simply because they are boring and bring power without any tactical or intelligent play.

Well, i think went a little bit off-course with my post.. but i hope the jest of it got through

Serpicuz
02-11-2014, 12:43 PM
New set, expansions in cycles, different formats are quite normal for a cards game. The problem is how these are realized and as impact and alter the current situation.

Ubi communicates:
Those cards(Base Set 1) will be considered as out of print but you will still be able to get them through the Altar of Wishes.
Base Set One will be removed from the Shop.

In other words, this means the death of open format in the near future. I hope we can all agree on this. However, I see there is also a great business opportunity: give free cards of the first set. I belive is too soon to put a block to old cards. Players want variety.
In MTG you can play Block, then Standard, then Modern, then Legacy, then Vintage. There are a lot of steps before one leaves the game.
In DoC seems very diffoult for new player get old card, becouse he uses WC to get the new cards he need.
If ubi will find a way to offer old cards to players, maybe they decide to invest money or time to play the open format.

Ubi communicates:
Format rotation. Some days tournaments will be Open format, some days will be Standard, and some days will use Weekly

would not be better to have tournaments in both formats simultaneously, so that everyone can choose what to play and not to be players who a few days do not know what to play?

ELO: with the different formats I think we need to have an elo for each of them and a generic one. It would also be interesting to have partial classifications (eg every month) with prizes, etc., just to entice people to always play.

Tourneaments: c'mon, is time to do big tournaments.
Swiss only for the base set 2 with a 175 buyin seals and the following prizes:
1: 4 last expansion packs + 4 packs of base medium Set 1
2: 2 last expansion packs + 4 packs of base medium Set 1
3 to 4: 1 last expansion packs + 2 packs of base medium Set 1
5 to 8: 2 packs of base medium Set 1

medium is a pack with 5 cards not included in the basic Set 2.
So who does not know what to make of the seals can use them for tournaments with attractive prizes, while new players may accomulare cards of the set base 1 so as to begin to play the open.

Of course Swiss with more than 8 people would like.

The numbers that I mentioned are indicative only but I hope that you understand the concept that I wanted to express

rgds

R3ZZ_
02-11-2014, 01:21 PM
Just add 1 coin into discussion
Dissappearence of wolf captain forces me to look around other haven creatures.
And i find that vindicator now is really underpowered creature.

In ideal case he can control board versus strong creatures and give a chance to haven to dominate in late game.
However, he kills units with 5 damage coins and higher. In the BS2 there are only 3 creatures with such basic damage (Worm, Shi-No-Shi and Sentinel)
Moreover, he can play versus them only if he have already placed on the table on their row in the moment of their appearence. So it is very situational card.
And his parameters is much worse than griffin ones =(
U only can use it in effective way in matchup versus enrage orc, due to control of the opponents creatures parameters.

However, I guess that his ability should be buffed up to kill units with 4 damage. In this case it will become a nice card for control a board versus powerfull midrange creatures. It only means that your opponent will be restricted in putting his creatures like in an ambush mechanics.

samdamanpart5
02-11-2014, 06:06 PM
Firstly, the current meta has to change or the game will die. Losing a few valuable old players but gaining tons of new players are more important to the future of DoC. Currently the game is all about rushing, milling and locking and watching top tiers players play in tournaments is so boring. This is the list of heroes played by top player without failure.

A) CASSANDRA
B) SANDALPHON
C) KELTHOR
D) HAKEEM
D) DHAMIRA

Haven deck, confirm there will be 4 wolf captain, prison, pillage, throne of renewal, etc, etc
Hakeem, there will be x4 void shade, void tainted ritual.
Kelthors, forbidden flame magic paddlers, crushers.

In every of those game, top DoC player uses similar deck against each other. From the tournaments and replays I just feel like switching off my monitor and go and sleep. Infact I find live streams are much more entertaining.

The reason why they are doing so is due to the following:-
a) Broken cards (cosmic singularity, throne of renewals, wolf captains, forbidden flame, magic peddlers, wandering bard, soothsayer, void shade, etc)
b) Broken heroes (dhamira broken, arianna broken, kelthor broken, ishuma broken)
c) Ubisoft dont bother fixing them until now. When they fix, instead of neft/ rework some cards, they decides to remove them from standard version and ask you to buy new cards (due to all previous achievements removed, i suspect altar of wishes will be locked until you buy certain amount of base set 2 cards to unlock it)
d) This is because by reworking or fixing previous cards, they will not encourage players to buy new cards, so why fix a broken thing when you can just throw it away and get a new one?

It is not the fault of the top tier players playing the OP heroes and cards. The reason they are so frustrated is because they forgot how to be normal again without those broken cards. Ubisoft did nothing to fix the cards which are so overpowered, so fun, so easy to use and broken until recently they decided enough is enough. When they pull the brake, the cars suddenly stops and player rages and blame Ubisoft for ruining the game.

Reality is, if this meta continues, the game is dead. The end. There are probably only 50-200 viewers in every DoC livestreams because it is so boring to watch. No excitement, same strategy & tactics and full with broken cards/heroes.

In hearthstone, it is fast paced, luck & skill based and there is answer to every single deck. Meaning, there is an equal chance of winning for each deck whether it is warlock vs druid, druid vs barbarian, barbarian vs priest, its 50-50% chance. Rush vs stall deck, 50- 50% chance.

In DoC, if you play control deck, and opponent is plays milling stall deck, you are dead. Just quit game. x4 throne, x4 altar, x4 cosmic singularity, x4 night of rising moon. You spells are just for decorations. What strategy are you talking about? No strategies are involve here. Its 100% luck based on the type of opponent you are facing. Control deck vs creature deck, chances are creature deck going to lose. Rock paper scissors. 100% win or 100% lose instantly.

What DoC is trying to do is to shift from this meta to more equal footing for each heroes. In card games, creatures should be the main element instead of spells/fortunes. Spells/ fortunes should be there to support creatures, not to win games individually. Therefore, ideally, there should be 60% creatures 40% spells/fortunes.

Below are some suggestions to improve the cards instead of removing them from base set 2.

Wolf captain
Suggestion: Change it to +1/+2 when there is adjacent creature to it similar to sayama champion. So it cost 2 resource for 2/2/5 with retribution. Done. Not OP.

Pao Deathseeker
Suggestion: 3 might 3 resource. 2/0/1. Should be similar to shredder's damage.
Personally I dont find this card that OP. Infact, I sometimes feel it is wasting my deck's space. Probably OP in certain situation such as when combined with honor/ war tent or in certain decks such as OTK/rage.

Void shade
(a) When void shade kills an enemy or (b) when void shade deals damage to hero, put top 5/3 enemy's library into graveyard. This should be the way to mill, while giving opportunity for the opponent to react.

Lilim
Suggestion: Should changed to 2/2/8 or 3/3/6. A creature should be either have high hp or high dmg in nature and should not be both at the same time.

Soul consuming lich
Suggestion: Make it 2/1/7. Gain 1 hp for each creatures that died this turn.

Blackskull crusher ( OMG this is one of the most OP creatures in DoC)
5 resource. 3/2/7. Immune to all magic dmg/ effect + cannot be targeted of spells.[?? Is this abit too much??]
Suggestion: Reduce its hp to 5 or change it to spellshield instead. [no damage from spells is dealt to this creature]
Its not logical that an uncommon card is better than EPIC glyph carved golem (spellward for each school of magic in your graveyard) and mizu kami RARE magic shield. Futhermore mizu kami only have 5hp and not 7hp.

Soothsayer/ Magic peddler/ Wandering bard/ Raider
Suggestion: Make it Unique. The purpose is to increase your chance to get unique cards. Its not for you to put x4 in it and to instantly get forbidden flame. Forbidden flame by itself is not OP. Its OP when magic peddler x4 is used to get it. Or maybe change the requirement to 3might and 3 resources to play it.

Unique spells.
Suggestions: Unique spells is not OP. Its the lack of neutral dispel cards that is the problem. All the neutral dispel cards have insane requirements. Probably song of the lost and forbidden flame need some adjustments. Make dispel more easily available to everyone and might of nature/light of tommorow/strength of sea/silent death will have only short term effect.

Forbidden flame
Suggestion: Make it ongoing. Deal dmg equals to double of your magic during your next turn. Forbidden flame cannot be dispelled or removed from the battlefield.

Song of lost
Relocate target creature. You can repeat this as many times as you want to any creature. The creature is immune to all source of damage when it is relocated in this way.

Fireball
Suggestion: 6magic. 4 resource.4 dmg all to adjacent creatures. [Only turn 6 can board clear/ only control deck able to use it]

Calculated sacrifice
2magic / 3fortune - 6 resources. Wow. that is crazy.
Suggestion: Make it 4 resources instead. Or put futher requirement such as 3might/2magic/3fortune 4 to cost. [similar to stronghold's famous last blow]

Cosmic singularity
When discarded, return all non unique card from graveyard to library and banish CS.

Cosmic realignment
Suggestion: Make it Unique.

Throne of renewal
Suggestion: Make it Unique.

Prison
Unique. No adjustment required. Because cant combo with cosmic singularity. This card is not OP. Cosmic singularity is OP.

Favourite spell/ Magic academy/ Observation/ Call of duty
Search for non unique card from your library and put in your hand.

Twist of fate
Suggestion: 1 to cost. Opponent discards a random card.

Halls of amnesia/ Maws of chaos
Suggestion: Increase the cost to 3

Arianna. [This hero's ability is too OP] Furthermore, this hero can dispel, can enthrall, can soul reave , can town portal , can teleport and can insect swarm. ?? Too strong
Suggestion. (a) 6 to cost. Destroy target creature with non enrage counters on it. Or option (b). 4 to cost. Discard a card. Destroy target creature with non enrage counters on it.

Dhamira. [This hero's ability is also broken. No spellcaster cant withstand her. Those play academy can just rage and quit when sees her]
Suggestion: 6 to cost. Look at opponent hand. Discard "A" fortune/spell card from his hand. [You have the luxury to see opponent's hand + to choose either a spell/fortune from it. That itself is OP]

Kelthor. [Broken ability]
Suggestion: Remove all enrage counters from a friendly creature. Deals damage equals to the number of enrage counters removed to a target creature. Problem solved.

Ishuma
Suggestion: 1 cost: Discard a card. Deal 2 damage to target immobilized creature.

Adar malik
Suggestion: 6 cost: Return NON UNIQUE NECROPOLIS creature put into graveyard to your hand since your last turn. [No paos, no atropos but still can ress decay spitters, lich, etc]

Gazal dark
Suggestion: 1cost: discard a card. Choose target instant spell from your opponent's graveyard. You can play the card for free. Banish it afterwards.
Similar to forgotten spell which I think synergiezes better with gazal dark.


Below are cards that deserved to be removed from base set 2 if no nefts (no complains, welldone ubisoft !)
a) altar of shadow (should be removed until there is an easier solution to counter fortunes besides using sanctuary creatures)
b) dark assasin (4 dmg early game is too hardcore)
c) shantiri ruins, asha uses all (crazy necropolis cards)
d) unique spells (unless they neft it)
e) wardering bard, soothsayer, etc (unless they make it unique or increase the requirements so that there wont be 3-4 in a deck, it should be removed)
f) pao deathseeker (individually it is not OP, but when combined with certain decks/ playstyle, it is too extreme)
g) early game mass removals (fireballs, forbidden flame, earthquakes): does not promote creature based decks.
h) pillage, prison: nonsense card that should not exist in the first place. (Not OP individually but played in certain decks/heroes + cosmic singularity, it is broken)
i) inheritance (just delete this card from the game)
j) cosmic singularity (broken)
k) tithe collector (should be removed as there is lack of early game removal and moving to creature based format)
l) mills & discarding cards

Below are cards that dont deserved to be removed from base set 2
a) market of shadows - no reliable way to draw cards besides hero ability.
b) broken bridge- fortunes cannot act as spells??
c) campfire
d) celestial armour
e) kat's grand finale
f) bloodpool/ call of bloodhorns/orc camp
g) divine judgement
h) fog veil
i) soul consuming wraith
j) blazing glory
k) naga warrior
l) bone dragon

Below are cards that should be removed from base set 2 but did not get removed
a) blackskull crushers
b) arianna --> adar malik
c) dhamira --> xorm
d) lesser air, lesser fire, angry wyvern ( just give new player some common/uncommon replacement cards rather than these neutrals)
e) night of rising moon
f) geyser
g) fate weaver

Current problems of DoC.
a) Lack of fortune and spell dispels. There is, but it is insanely hard to play it and to get it.
b) Overpowered cards and overpowered heroes which are not fixed. Ishuma, kelthor, arianna, gazal dark, dhamira, blackskull crushers, cosmic singularities, throne of renewals, wolf captains, void shade etc etc
c) Redundant heroes and redundant cards - siham, phrias, certain neutral creatures
d) Unbalanced gameplay - Rock, paper , scissors (100% winrate or 100% lose rate) Very frustrating to new players.

Therefore, new meta brings more balance into the game and thus it is badly required. However, how to get the new cards, that is another issue. There is no such thing as out of print cards in a digital card game. It is more like saying this card is no longer available to the public. Ubisoft can always rework the current card to balance it instead of forcing us to buy new cards.

Steps to improve the game and $$$$ for Ubisoft:-
1) The game must be advertised more aggresively as this is one of the best digital card games out there.
2) Why dont incorporate heroes of might and magic elements to duels of champions. Create better campaigns, dungeons, raids , storylines, pvp, ability to build your own castles (haven castle, babarian stronghold , sanctuary fortress, academy cloud palace, inferno hell palace etc etc) Check out hex trading card game for instance. It looks so much like heroes of might and magic. Essentially turning DoC to an MMORPTCG.
3) sell cosmetics in the shops to decorate your personal castles and show it off to your guildmates / friends.
4) sell alternate arts in the shops to generate revenues for those interested in acquiring it.
4) Make draft plays. (must use gold / seals to enter) Therefore, encourage people to play more regularly/ spend seals.
5) Make it as a mobile game. (android/ iphone)
6) Refer dota2 as guide on how to generate cash on F2P model and at the same time attract new customers.
7) Balance each faction and each heroes so that it has equal chance to win against another heroes regardless of faction/type (by making DoC more creature centric) instead of rock paper scissors match up.

ElkazFATE
02-12-2014, 09:20 AM
I agree with most of this what vamp wrote, but there is one more disadventage of base set 2. If ubi will realese it now, new fractions will be balanced to bs2 and they will be too weak to play them in open format.

PukinggoB
02-12-2014, 02:52 PM
I just very dislike the base set 2 card selection (well, I think it is just awfull), but I totally agree with points raised by VampFury. The elo system as it is now is just so wrong. And the matchmaking... When I was above 1600 elo playing ladder I was matched with 800 elo, 7 level guy. And I realy dont like the 1500 elo barier and what "1500" has become: I really dont like how all 1500 elo players have the same elo and there is a HUGE! difference in their skill-level. 1500 is sooo easy to reach right now: U could ask how would I know?? well I've actually drop my elo on porpouse to 1000 elo and got to almost 1600 elo in just 1 day of playing. And I was playing very bad that day.

I remember november 2013 : there were roughly 1000 players above 1500 elo,

Now, februrary 2014 : more than 2000 players are above 1500 elo,

It's a big increase within 3 months and I explain it with the RTP pre-built deck + Spellthor. Everybody has acces to this deck after playing during few weeks, and its
efficacity/simplicity isso good than it's now easy to pass the 1500 elo.

SpaceElephant
02-12-2014, 08:47 PM
Thanks a lot for putting this together Vampfury, thank you all for your comments. We've read it with great attention :)

VampFury
02-13-2014, 03:01 PM
Thank you all for reading and for your comments!

@zkolo I firmly believe that future rotations will be as you wrote or similar. This I consider as exception to introduce new format.

@Serpicuz We WILL have tournaments in both formats simultaneously.

@ElkazFATe I hope no new factions get introduced to the game after this point. Than this BS2 "consolidation" wouldn't make much sense.

svilleneuve and SpaceElephant thank you for reading this and your feedback!

Serpicuz
02-14-2014, 12:32 PM
Thank you all for reading and for your comments!

@Serpicuz We WILL have tournaments in both formats simultaneously.



Ok, ti sounds more logical.

But the problem remains about open format.

If new player will have problems to get old card, the open will die, and I think it's too soon.

Finally it's time to have more structural swiss tournaments with more buyin and more prizes.

maybe instead of doing tournaments on the weekend of curios formats, it would be interesting to have a big tournament with buyin in seals and great prizes.