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View Full Version : Japanese sub carriers: ahead of their day...



arcadeace
08-31-2004, 07:33 PM
I've never seen this before and thought some of you guys might get a kick. Maybe Oleg would... well never mind http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1094002178_sen_toku.jpg

"While Japan built many submarines that were larger than those of other Navies, the three Sen Toku boats were far larger than anything ever seen before. Some 60% larger than the largest contemporary American submarine, USS Argonaut, they had more than twice her range. The most unusual feature was that they each carried three floatplane bombers (and parts for a fourth), a feat never achieved by any other class of submarine. These aircraft folded to fit into the 115-foot cylindrical hangar, which was slightly offset to starboard and opened forward to access the catapult. The huge double hull was formed of parallel cylindrical hulls so that it had a peculiar lazy-eight cross section, and may have inspired the Soviet Typhoon-class built some 40 years later. Although aircraft must be considered their primary armament, they also carried a formidable torpedo battery and the usual 14cm deck gun. Anti-aircraft armament included ten 25mm cannons in three triple mounts and one single. Each of these boats had radar and a snorkel."

http://www.combinedfleet.com/sen_toku.htm

arcadeace
08-31-2004, 07:33 PM
I've never seen this before and thought some of you guys might get a kick. Maybe Oleg would... well never mind http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1094002178_sen_toku.jpg

"While Japan built many submarines that were larger than those of other Navies, the three Sen Toku boats were far larger than anything ever seen before. Some 60% larger than the largest contemporary American submarine, USS Argonaut, they had more than twice her range. The most unusual feature was that they each carried three floatplane bombers (and parts for a fourth), a feat never achieved by any other class of submarine. These aircraft folded to fit into the 115-foot cylindrical hangar, which was slightly offset to starboard and opened forward to access the catapult. The huge double hull was formed of parallel cylindrical hulls so that it had a peculiar lazy-eight cross section, and may have inspired the Soviet Typhoon-class built some 40 years later. Although aircraft must be considered their primary armament, they also carried a formidable torpedo battery and the usual 14cm deck gun. Anti-aircraft armament included ten 25mm cannons in three triple mounts and one single. Each of these boats had radar and a snorkel."

http://www.combinedfleet.com/sen_toku.htm

Freycinet
09-01-2004, 04:44 AM
...and the only japanese bombing raid on mainland USA was by a floatplane from one of these subs! (managed to set fire to some forest on California...)

Texas LongHorn
09-01-2004, 05:58 AM
Acedeace, check out this 3D model of the I-400. If you look you'll notice the EIGHT Long Lance tubes in the bow. That would have been one though submarine <ggg.> Here's the link to the model;
http://www2.cc22.ne.jp/~harada/400.jpg
All the best, Mike

http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v149/msdavis/My_Sig_Image2.jpg

F16_Fatboy
09-01-2004, 07:34 AM
The first bombing raid on USA was flown in a Yokosuka E14Y1 seplane.Pilot N.Fujita and observer S.Okuda. They where brought to the cost of Cape Blanco Oregon in the the sub I-25 (2198 tons) under Frigate Captain Meija Tagami and made the first bomb drop 9 september 1942 and a second run 29 september.

The I-400 subs where 5223 tons and had 4 Aichi M6A1 Seiran twin-seated seaplanes. Four off these subs where planed to make a raid on the Panama Canal from the Atlantic side.

FLSTF

http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v125/F16_fatboy/Album1/sig_fatboy.jpg

Tater-SW-
09-01-2004, 10:23 AM
All Japanese torpedos are NOT "Long Lance" torpedos. The Long Lance was a 24 inch diameter torpedo, launched from surface ships. The submarines used 21 inch diameter torpedos (I don't know of any exceptions off hand, check combinedfleet.com)

ONLY the 24" torpedo is a "Long Lance." Not SS TTs, not air dropped TTs.

tater

JR_Greenhorn
09-01-2004, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Texas LongHorn:
...check out this 3D model of the I-400....
http://www2.cc22.ne.jp/~harada/400.jpg<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Very unusual looking. A Japanese liquid-cooled floatplane, that is.


http://www.fargoairmuseum.org/F2G-1D.jpg

Fliger747
09-01-2004, 11:44 AM
Very large submarines of the day lacked manuverability (and speed) and were great sonar targets. The plethora of large hatches and containers made underwater damage resistance poor as well.

Japanese submarines were not generally employed in an effective a manner as were the US fleet boats, however they did score some sucessfull attacks against major warships; Saratoga (a couple of times) Wasp, Yorktown, damage to North Carolina, Indianapolis, and if I remember right, Juneau.

F16_Fatboy
09-01-2004, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JR_Greenhorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Texas LongHorn:
...check out this 3D model of the I-400....
http://www2.cc22.ne.jp/~harada/400.jpg<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Very unusual looking. A Japanese liquid-cooled floatplane, that is.


http://www.fargoairmuseum.org/F2G-1D.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Yes the M6A1 were equipped with the Daimler-Benz DB 601 A 1400hp engine.

FLSTF

http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v125/F16_fatboy/Album1/sig_fatboy.jpg

Snootles
09-01-2004, 05:58 PM
The French also had a large submarine that not only housed an airplane but also a twin 8in/50 gun. The Surcouf was launched on Oct 18 1929, displacement 3250t normal, 4304 submerged. Of course, you know the French in WWII, they didn't put it to use. In fact, it was sunk in the Gulf of Mexico in 1942 by colliding with an American merchant ship. I don't like to dis people or countries, but that is a really stupid way for a cruiser sub to go down.

WUAF_WarWeapon2
09-01-2004, 09:24 PM
I also believe *reading an article in a book about secret weapons of WWII* they were to be used to drop biological weapons on major california cities as a revenge tactic, they were sent out a few months before the war ended. They even continued AFTER the war was over, but eventually surrendered to American Forces. John Macaine's father actually boarded one of these super subs when they surrendered.

Kartveli
09-02-2004, 10:53 AM
the Japanese had trans-pacific balloons loaded with explosives ( mostly incendiaries I think) set to go off barometericly, I think....

they launched a few hundred of them, but only a couple were ever recorded to have made US mainland landfall, doing nothing but wasting materials the Japanese could have used better

Waldo.Pepper
09-04-2004, 12:24 AM
Looked around. Can anyone tell me mmore about the plane on the Surcouf? (French Sub)

Also found this

Most major navies have tried to use submarines as aircraft carriers never with much success. Here, S-1 (the 105th U. S. submarine) was equipped with an on-deck hangar and the Martin MS-1 seaplane. Wishful thinking; the MS-1 had to be disassembled to fit in the hangar and put together again before flight, forcing the submarine to remain exposed for too long. In addition, launching and recovery were virtually impossible in the open ocean

Link and Picture link

http://www.submarine-history.com/NOVAthree.htm

http://www.submarine-history.com/NOVAseaplane.jpg

Texas LongHorn
09-05-2004, 02:54 PM
Hey Tater, I'm no fount of info when it comes to the IJN, I do believe at least some subs carried a version of the Long Lance. Here's the quote from the Submarine History site;
"The MK95 submarine version had a 900 pound warhead, wakeless oxygen-fueled turbine, range five miles at 49 knots. Contemporary U. S. Navy torpedoes had half the warhead and half the range when they were working."
Now of course this blurb doesn't mention the tube size, maybe the sub version was 21"? I do know it seems to me I've read accounts of Japanese subs firing the extreme range Long Lances'. Who knows, like I said most of my documentation is about US ships, not the IJN. Always good buddy, LongHorn

http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v149/msdavis/My_Sig_Image2.jpg

Tater-SW-
09-05-2004, 03:59 PM
Long Lance (type 93) torpedos had a range of 40,000 (20 nm) yards at 36 knots. At 20,000 yards (10nm) it could be set to travel at 48 knots! It had a 1080lb warhead.

The type 95 was a 21" version for subs. Only the 24" is what was later dubbed "Long Lance."

tater

owlwatcher
09-05-2004, 04:08 PM
The IJN had some good ideas for the subs.
Overall there were ideas or theorys of use I think ahead of all other nations.
With scouting,command and attack subs.
The problem was to late and not up to date.
Between the code breakers and the advanced state of the art of sub defences of the USN the IJN subs were doomed.
For IJN Toepedo information
http://www.combinedfleet.com/

FI.Spitsfire
09-06-2004, 05:19 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Thanks I knew of them but I had never seen a photo before http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cheers

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