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BS87
05-24-2004, 08:51 PM
I need some tips for hte P38s... any help would be appreciated.

I've come to love the P38s, but it seems i cannot accomplish anything but a nose plant in them. The only way i seem to stay alive is to stay above 500kph, and at that speed its hard to line up a good shot. I've heard the J is better than the L, and it doesa seem a wee bit better, but any help would be appreciated.

BS87
05-24-2004, 08:51 PM
I need some tips for hte P38s... any help would be appreciated.

I've come to love the P38s, but it seems i cannot accomplish anything but a nose plant in them. The only way i seem to stay alive is to stay above 500kph, and at that speed its hard to line up a good shot. I've heard the J is better than the L, and it doesa seem a wee bit better, but any help would be appreciated.

Bloodyclaws
05-24-2004, 08:58 PM
Honestly, it only takes two words.


Boom & Zoom.

Seriously, fly high alt, fly fast, line up a dive shot and don't short yourself on pullout time.

Beware of the evil compression in the dive. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The Lightning is a big beast remember, not ment to be a turn and burn fighter.

Oh what bitter,cold bite of steel shall a man make.

3.JG51_BigBear
05-24-2004, 09:02 PM
I love this plane. You will be absolutely amazed what you can do with those dive brakes after you fly this beast for awhile.

BS87
05-24-2004, 09:12 PM
Yeah, but i dont like the dive flaps, they always seem to mess me up. The J feels more natural to me.

Korolov
05-24-2004, 09:18 PM
Try to limit your dives to low angle passes, and don't do zoom climbs. Make a pass, extend away, come back and do it again. Headons are pretty safe with the bird, so thats another form of engagement you can take advantage of.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

geetarman
05-25-2004, 02:44 PM
Ok here goes my top ten tips. I fly a P-38 a lot on HL (Buddyboy) and UBIcom (Wasp38).

1. Use elevator trim constantly. If you have a mousewheel, bind the wheel for elevator trim. The plane will fly much better and will react much quicker to your stick input.

2. Attempt to keep the speed above 400 kph at all times during combat.

3. Do not make a habit of turn fighting with most of the good single-engine aircraft. Just don't do it. It's a big plane and is a big target.

4. Particularly with the L, when being chased and rapidly gained on (which will happen often), drop those dive brakes, slam back the throttle and drop full flaps. Then barrel roll. 9 times out of 10, the pursuer will over shoot and give you some time to get out of there and set up again.

5. Fire the 50 cals and cannon interchangeably. This will reduce your nose shake.

6. Fire at close range.

7. Don't be afraid to slow the plane down. It handles pretty well at low speeds, post-patch. I won a one-on-one with a Mustang by basically "floating" around him at low speed.

8. Don't go after the later Russian and Japanese planes - if the pilot is good, he'll probably shoot you down. Wait to see if those planes are chasing a friendly, then dive on them.

9. When manuevering, ease the stick. When you start to feel the shaking and vibrations, ease up! The plane will holds it's "E" pretty well if not pushed. But, it's not a LA or a Frank or a Spit. Don't fly it like one.

10. The 38, if flown right, is competitive. The goal is to fly it smoothly and allow the other guy to yank his stick around and manhandle his plane. He'll slow down and begin to lose E. Observe your enemy! When he is in a difficult position, get on his tail and close. The 38 is verrry good in that position. Just start laying into him with the guns/cannon.

Good luck~

tttiger
05-25-2004, 05:35 PM
I would add one thing to geeterman's tips:

I turned on deadband and filter just a bit in roll, yaw and pitch and it made the P-38 much more stable as a gun platform (don't turn them on very much or the plane will become sluggish).

It may be just my aging joystick bit it helped the P-38 more than any other plane. I was really having trouble keeping the pipper on target and with surprise stalls in the P-38. Much smoother now.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

El Turo
05-25-2004, 05:46 PM
Two words:

COMBAT FLAPS

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse träume.

Bull_dog_
05-25-2004, 06:29 PM
The J model is a monster against planes of its era...don't let anyone tell you otherwise...but if you go against boosted German aircraft or 44 Jap or russians, you'll lose if the pilot know's what he is doing...unfortunately the L model is not enough of a leap forward from the J to stay competitive with Dora's and G-6AS's either...so I find servers with Ki's, 109K's and Dora's to be very difficult to score in...you really have to pick your fights cause you are outmatched most of the time.

A couple of points:

1) Against 109G2's and G6's...you are faster than they are but can't out turn them or out climb them so don't. On the deck you can out run them easily...then turn around and go head to head...unless they get a lucky shot or you're fighting a G6late with the nose cannons, you'll win that battle most of the time. Keep you speed up.

2) Against Fw A-4's...you own them in almost every aspect except high speed turning and maybe low speed turning so try to avoid a turning battle, but your faster and climb better. Against the other boosted A series..you climb better but are slower at low and medium altitude. Fw's are very suseptible to slow spiraling climbs and energy tactics and the lightning will even out turn A-8's and A-9's at lower speeds...but do not scissors with them that will be the end of you. I've killed a number of Dora's in my J-model in slow speed turning fights....believe it or not http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Needless to say the pilots were not typically happy and a couple even mentioned some stuff about German aircraft being undermodelled etc..


Other general statements...the P-38 is relatively fast on the deck against most 43 opponents...I used to be able to outrun mustangs on the deck and I've killed several in dogfight servers as they followed me out away from the fray into the "off the map" land where your not bothered...I'd out run them, turn and do head on's until their weak dm would fry the engine...hadn't done this post patch so I don't know if it still works.

The Lighting is a terrible B&Z plane compared to a Jug or Fw...the heaviness of control surfaces and low compressibility makes it that way....I don't find that I can easily hit targets at speeds over 650km/hr and when I engage the dive break, the plane pitches so if you're going to dive on an opponent...chop the throttle and use your dive break early in the dive to prevent overspeeding then release it and get a bead on your opponent....

Get as close as you can...no convergence, but the scattering of the M2 is still there so if your close, you'll easily blow the tails off your enemy with very short bursts.

Don't forget your energy tactics...slow spiraling climbs, tail to tail, when the enemy tries to lead turn you....you won't do it against fast climbing aircraft but those with medium to low climb rates will lose this battle every time assuming you go into the fray in equal energy.

Antisubs
05-25-2004, 07:16 PM
tttiger mentioned adjusting deadband. I've got my pitch and roll all at 100%. The roll expecially seems to helps make it more responsive. Panic yanking on the stick, though, can send it in to wild stall gyrations.

Of course, to fly a different plane, you have to go offline, start the game and change the settings back to normal.

BS87
05-25-2004, 07:30 PM
Thanks for your help, but the P38 just pisses me off. Just got out of warclouds, where iw as flying level at 450kph, and a g10 flew headon, did a complete 180, and caught up within 60 seconds.

Maple_Tiger
05-25-2004, 08:32 PM
To help come out of a dive, you can engage combat flaps for two or three seconds, and then disengage them. Doing this repeatedly will help.

P-38J is one of the fastes 43 planes in the game. Proubly the fastes plane on the deck in a 43 plane set.

Only plane so far that gives me trouable in a 43 plane set is the FW190A5 or FW190A6. Surtain altitudes you'l be able to out run them. For example, from SL to about 3500m and then from 7000m and higher. Once you get up to about 5000m, the FW will be in its prime. Usualy youl find good FW pilots between 5000m and 6000m. They can out run you at this altitude.

Stay fast, very fast. Just what Korolov said. Don't use steep angled dives.

Have fun.

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

tttiger
05-26-2004, 02:49 AM
Antisubs:

You need a good stick configuration. Just putting it at 100% makes it too quirky.

Here's one Oleg posted a long time ago in IL-2 saying it's what he uses. Just go into your config (it's labeled conf) in the game folder (make a backup just in case) and replace the stick settings with these:

[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=5 0 3 7 15 25 35 40 66 84 100 10
1Y=5 0 5 10 17 25 33 43 54 71 100 10
1RZ=5 0 8 19 29 39 51 62 75 86 100 10
1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

There may be better ones out there, but they work for me and it's a place to start.

Hope that helps.

I find the P-38 to be historically accurate. That is: A so-so fighter in Europe, a bit better in the Pacific and the L can carry the most ordnance of any mud mover in the game.

The Jug still rules in my book, but I like all the US and UK planes. The Brewster eats A6M2s for breakfast http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

One further note: Several posters on this thread advocated head-on attacks. If you want to hang a sign on your back saying "I'M AN ARCADE PILOT" that's sure the way to do it. Bull Dog's comment: "you'll win that battle most of the time" kinda says it all, doesn't it? Fly-die-respawn-fly-etc. And you wonder why I stay outta the DF arenas? LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

geetarman
05-26-2004, 08:28 AM
I also find the 38 does better on the cockpit on servers with no externals. Those Linda Blair views allow a pilot of a more maneuverable plane to see where you are going quicker and get his plane into position faster.

Again, I am no ace, but I used a J exclusively on a desert server configured that way last weekend. The better points of the 38 came out vs. the enemy planes. I had good visibility and a mirror. I went up on three sep. missions against, first a Frank and then two 109K's. All three were brought down during tail chases without a bullet hitting me.

Some of those little things like a mirror really play to your benefit on a more "full switch" server.

ZG77_Nagual
05-26-2004, 08:59 AM
I find the p38 - either model - very good against everything - in particular online I seek out ki84s - usually in the J. Some good advice here - but a couple of points. Shallow climbs in the J can be very effective. If you are diving and know it will be along one - set your trim - as the angle decreases this becomes more effective and I've frequently had not trouble recovering from dives in the area of 750kph. Just remember to put the trim back neutral or the nose will want to come up when you get slow. Likewise the dive flaps - they are basically instant trim - retract them or you'll have trouble aiming.

ForkTailedDevil
05-26-2004, 12:03 PM
It sucks the P-38 is my favorite plane of all time and I can't fly it worth ****. About all I can do is strafe and bomb targets with it. I will atempt some of the strategies posted.

"You can teach monkey's to fly better than that"

Korolov
05-26-2004, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
One further note: Several posters on this thread advocated head-on attacks. If you want to hang a sign on your back saying "I'M AN ARCADE PILOT" that's sure the way to do it. Bull Dog's comment: "you'll win that battle most of the time" kinda says it all, doesn't it? Fly-die-respawn-fly-etc. And you wonder why I stay outta the DF arenas? LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Except that head-ons in the P-38 were encouraged, both in the PTO and the MTO. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

tttiger
05-26-2004, 12:34 PM
LOL, agreed, especially PTO. Chennault advocated them against those fragile Oscars.

As soon as we get a PTO I'll start using them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(I'm not talking about a front aspect snap shot, which works well against Zeroes and even against German planes if you happen to get a hit. That's what the Thatch Weave was all about. But anyone who flies straight head-on against an FW with four cannon or a 109G with that nose spinner howitzer is NOT flying realistically -- as though his life really is at stake -- and is playing a risk-free -- heck, I'll just respawn if I die -- game of make-believe "chicken," not flying a sim. That's fine, I just don't choose to fly that way. Nice we have choices here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif).

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

Korolov
05-26-2004, 12:43 PM
I thought people would have enough sense to avoid headons with the howitzer mounting 109s and the quad gun 190s. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

BS87
05-26-2004, 07:37 PM
One of my favorite things to do in the 190 was to do headons with the 4x20mm and disintegrate planes, and fly through the bit of wreckage.
I'm slowly getting better with the p38 (on a scale of 1-10, i'm at -2 instead of -5), but it just makes me angry because i love the plane, i just cannot do any good with it yet

Bull_dog_
05-26-2004, 09:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
Antisubs:

One further note: Several posters on this thread advocated head-on attacks. If you want to hang a sign on your back saying "I'M AN ARCADE PILOT" that's sure the way to do it. Bull Dog's comment: "you'll win that battle most of the time" kinda says it all, doesn't it? Fly-die-respawn-fly-etc. And you wonder why I stay outta the DF arenas? LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually fly all servers from wonder woman to full difficulty...I did spend lots of time on warclouds 44 and TOH (not so much recently due to work) and guess what...i do head on's there too....its just harder to find your target and judge distance...but you see...just as in real life the lightning started firing at ranges of 1000 meters and beyond where wing mounted guns usually did start to fire till much closer....too bad the dispersion is so great, but anyways...you really should watch labels you put on people since my reflection of real life tactics is not at all a reflection of my beliefs and philosophy...however, I would say you definitely showed your lack of understanding of history and tactics. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

BS87
05-27-2004, 07:24 PM
I've been thinking of putting Elevator trim on a rotary, but i dont know if i want to take prop pitch or brakes off of either rotary. =/

mllaneza
05-27-2004, 09:40 PM
I've got a P-38 tip. Never give the enemy a shot at your top or bottom aspect. You're a HUGE target when seen from those angles. Even noobs can hit that with a deflection shot.

Veteran - Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1993-1951.

BennyMoore
05-27-2004, 10:26 PM
After all these tips are given, and after I've done them all (I used these tactics even before searching for help, and still do when I feel like banging my head against the P-38) the fact remains that the Ki-84, the P-51, the BF-109, the Yak, the Mig, the La-7, and probably many other planes CAN OUTRUN (out-run, not out-turn) THE P-38J (the faster of the two)! That does mean outrun! On the deck! In a dive! In a climb! Outrun! Better acceleration! Better top speed! Hello?? How the **** am I suppose to use zoom and boom tactics on an enemy that is not only far more maneuverable than I, but can catch me with no effort whatsoever? I am so sick of people, mostly non-P38 people, advising me to "zoom and boom" and "use your superior speed just like in real life." That's the only thing I do! And it does not work. I'm no fool who tries to turn and burn in a P-38J (although in desperation I gave it a few stabs in the L version)! I've never had the sort of great fortune that would allow me to fly a P-38 in real life, so I cannot say if the flight model is realistic or not. But I tell you that if the P-38 was in real life as it is in this game, then there would be no P-38 aces. Okay, I can believe that the P-38 was as unmanueverable in real life as it is in the game. But I cannot believe that it was both that unmanueverable and that slow!

The only successful tactic I have been able to use in the P-38 is flying straight and level, taking punishment and hoping my a wing does not get chewed off, until my opponent runs out of ammo. That was before the patch, of course, and they made the P-38 less hardy in the patch.

Oh, and I don't believe a single one of you forumites who claim to do well with it. I think that you are simply justifying Oleg's ill-judgement of its performance. I have never seen a P-38 pilot do any real damage in a one-on-one! When I see a P-38, I go for it. Do you know why? Because it is an easy kill! It is a no-brainer, minimum-effort, sure-fire kill. I've never, ever had a P-38 do me any serious damage, let alone shoot me down in a one-on-one (even when they start out with speed and altitude and I don't).

I'm sick and tired of being unable to live, letting alone do damage, flying my favorite airplane! It wasn't this bad in real life. That, I am convinced, is fact.

UNPORK THE P-38!

Korolov
05-27-2004, 10:50 PM
That's why you start with a altitude advantage...

A while back I did post a long page of tips and uses, but I can't find that right now so I'll sum it up:

You won't outrun anybody outside of a '43 planeset. Just the way it is. At altitude you might, but elsewhere you won't.

You won't outturn everybody, but you can turn with them long enough to dent them a bit. You can turn with Fw-190s quite well, but caution must be used when turning. If you can maintain a speed of about 400-500, you can turn quite well with the opposition - just watch the blackouts.

Dive & Roll, especially in the L. Go faster than 500 and you'll roll about as fast as a Fw-190 at the same speed. The J is the only exception to this.

You can make shots at greater than 500m and still hit. This is especially true when you follow someone into a zoom. I wouldn't recommend using the cannon for this.

If one of your engines catches on fire, remember you have fire extinguishers. In real life, P-38s didn't have them, but we do here - use 'em or loose 'em.

Fly in the realm of 7000 to 9000m for best performance. This is roughly 20,000 to 30,000ft.

ALWAYS fly with a wingman, no exceptions. Flying without a wingman in the P-38 is a big no-no, unless you are VERY good with the bird. Even I don't like to fly without a wingman in the 38.

The P-38 is a jack of all trades plane, and master of none (except maybe high altitude combat.) Be very gentle with the yoke and use caution in how far you push it. It takes time and dedication to learn this bird. If you've been used to flying 109s, you'll probably feel right at home with her - poor roll, concrete high speed elevators, OK turning, heavy firepower in the nose.

Get yourself about 3000m higher than the opposition and work a sort of hit and run plan out with a wingman. Make a pass on a bandit from your perch, do as much damage as possible, and climb away. The P-38 spiral climbs quite well, so I recommend you learn that as well.

Remember, she doesn't like it when you go extremely fast or too slow. One of her greatest assets is high speed roll rate and the way she can ditch a bunch of speed in a hurry. Keep her in the sweet spot range of 400-500kmh and you'll do fine. Know where to engage and when. Attack only when you have a advantage. The best place for this plane is going to be a place where nobody can see her coming.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

geetarman
05-28-2004, 08:42 AM
Bennymoore - I flew with you a few weeks ago on a sever - you and I were in 38's on the same side. You did well with it!

Yes, the later planes can basically outperform you but not many of the 43 and back craft. When I fly it, I try to avoid those planes and pick easier targets.

I'm also starting to see the slight change in the FM of the craft, post-patch, particulalry at low speed. In two engagements this morning, I brought down an A-5 and a King Cobra in slow speed df's when both stalled while manuevering. The 38 just hung in there. I swung my nose around and blasted both.

Also, as to your comment about the 38 not being able to handle any one-on-one, the night I flew with you I took down a Mustang on your tail and another in a ten minute df. Just him and I. I have also seen a lot of other 38's take on other planes and win in solo df's.

I agree the plane is not the be-all and end-all, but, come on, you can get kills in it!
Like I said prior - I thought you flew it very well that night.

Geetarman (Buddyboy)

BS87
05-28-2004, 01:28 PM
As korolov said, at 400-500kph the P38 rolls very well, especially with combat flaps, though you will bleed speed.

PS, Koro, which 38 would you reccomend for Dogfighting?

VW-IceFire
05-28-2004, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
After all these tips are given, and after I've done them all (I used these tactics even before searching for help, and still do when I feel like banging my head against the P-38) the fact remains that the Ki-84, the P-51, the BF-109, the Yak, the Mig, the La-7, and probably many other planes _CAN OUTRUN (out-run, not out-turn) THE P-38J (the faster of the two)! That does mean outrun! On the deck! In a dive! In a climb! Outrun! Better acceleration! Better top speed! Hello?? How the **** am I suppose to use zoom and boom tactics on an enemy that is not only far more maneuverable than I, but can catch me with no effort whatsoever?_ I am so sick of people, mostly non-P38 people, advising me to "zoom and boom" and "use your superior speed just like in real life." That's the only thing I do! And it does not work. I'm no fool who tries to turn and burn in a P-38J (although in desperation I gave it a few stabs in the L version)! I've never had the sort of great fortune that would allow me to fly a P-38 in real life, so I cannot say if the flight model is realistic or not. But I tell you that if the P-38 was in real life as it is in this game, then there would be no P-38 aces. Okay, I can believe that the P-38 was as unmanueverable in real life as it is in the game. But I cannot believe that it was both that unmanueverable and that slow!

The only successful tactic I have been able to use in the P-38 is flying straight and level, taking punishment and hoping my a wing does not get chewed off, until my opponent runs out of ammo. That was before the patch, of course, and they made the P-38 less hardy in the patch.

Oh, and I don't believe a single one of you forumites who claim to do well with it. I think that you are simply justifying Oleg's ill-judgement of its performance. I have never seen a P-38 pilot do any real damage in a one-on-one! When I see a P-38, I go for it. Do you know why? Because it is an easy kill! It is a no-brainer, minimum-effort, sure-fire kill. I've never, ever had a P-38 do me any serious damage, let alone shoot me down in a one-on-one (even when they start out with speed and altitude and I don't).

I'm sick and tired of being unable to live, letting alone do damage, flying my favorite airplane! It wasn't this bad in real life. That, I am convinced, is fact.

UNPORK THE P-38!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh boy...well you've never seen me on a P-38 stint. Sometimes I'll spend an entire hour long session flying the P-38 (the J instead of L for extra challenge) in a dogfight server. Generally not full real but close to (flight dynamics wise).

First thing is that the Ki-84 in my experience in a long straight away dash is the same speed as the P-38 on low altitiude. One instance I had two Ki-84's on my tail who I had a single head on run with and then I reversed and headed for home (because I'm not going to beat them both - more manuverable and just as fast). So...I dove down from 2000 meters to 1000 meters and I rammed the engine full forward. Neither could catch me...I wasn't loosing them either but in a straight away dash with speed going in they weren't going to catch me. I ended up back at base and downed one of the two Ki's...unfortunately other enemies joined into the fray and I skidded down the runway with major damage. So in practice the Ki-84, a VERY fast plane, was just keeping up. The La-7 is by far the fastest plane on the deck in the entire game so its no surprise that it was able to overtake you. There are some other 1945 or late 1944 aircraft that will be able to as well.

I've read some points made by veteran P-38 pilots to the idea that as a fighter the P-38 was a tricky one. If 4 109's showed up and went after 4 P-38's instead of the bombers then it would likely end in the downing of some or all of the P-38's...the 109 is fast and manuverable while the P-38 has much more range, firepower, and an excellent top speed. If the 109's didn't see the P-38's and they were boomed and zoomed then the 109's were likely to go down. You have to use the P-38 as an offensive weapon. Go head on with all but a few exceptionally well armed aircraft and try and place the cannons and machine guns into the engine of your target.

Another couple of key points is that you have to have surprise. Alot of the non-full real servers are going to make that alot harder...not impossible but harder. BNZ works when your opponent doesn't see you till the last second and you've already flammed him...thats how the tactic works. Use clouds, the sun, and a variety of other sneaky ways to get your opponent.

Another is target fixation (which does frequently happen)...provided that the guy they are chasing is smart enough to present the bandits six to you.

Above all else...the USAAF used the P-38, not in a vacuum, but with flight or squadron numbers. There rarely was going to be an instance where it was going to be one on one or with a loose concentration of uncorodinated aircraft.

The P-38 is a fabulous fighter in this game...but its not easy and it doesn't always work well under the dogfight server style conditions. Work at it and don't get into furballs on dogfight servers.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

El Turo
05-28-2004, 02:27 PM
The P38 is most certainly not any good in arcade-servers... is that where ^^you^^ fly them at? That could explain whey you have such trouble in them?

I find that I have very good success in the P38's when placing myself in a position to achieve success. You cannot expect to consistently place yourself in a disadvantageous position and come out on top. If you're fighting fair in air combat, you're doing something wrong, hoss.

I always climb up to at least 3-5km enroute to the target area while I scan for bogies. If you KNOW the engagements have been up at 3-5km, then come in at 6-7km.. so on and so forth.

Use your good climb, acceleration and respectable turn rate to enter the engagement with a lot of smash, zoom back up and keep yourself in a positive E-state compared to your opponent.

Wednesday night on the Warclouds44+ server I had a single mission where I dropped my 1000lb bombs on the factory and proceeded to get three kills on enemy aircraft climbing up towards me looking for an easy lunch.

If you're firing at longer ranges (over 200m), try NOT firing both MG and cannon simultaneously. The dispersion and shake is too much. I will tap the cannon for longer range shots or give a good 1-2 second squirt of 50-cal in an attempt to pick away at my opponent, but I never hold down the "hammer" unless the guy is WELL under 200m.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Korolov
05-28-2004, 02:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BS87:
PS, Koro, which 38 would you reccomend for Dogfighting?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd recommend the L whenever possible. No doubt many folks will disagree with me, but the dive brakes are a must have, especially for evasion.

Generally, if you can score a few hits on a opponent's wing, you can be sure to outturn them. Of course the same is also true for you - if the P-38 takes wing hits, you won't outturn a B-17.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

HART_dreyer
05-28-2004, 08:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"the fact remains that the Ki-84, the P-51, the BF-109, the Yak, the Mig, the La-7, and probably many other planes"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't know about all these other planes but the P-38 can for sure outrun most of the BF-109 models on the deck. Maybe with the exception of the K4 at full power.

Regards,
dreyer
the dreyer vs. Hartmann game! (http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/)

BennyMoore
05-28-2004, 09:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by H_Butcher:
The P38 is most certainly not any good in arcade-servers... is that where ^^you^^ fly them at? That could explain whey you have such trouble in them?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yar har har... I only fly on full realism, with the single exception of having external views enabled. And if I ever get a thousand dollars for a head-mounted infrared tracking monitor, then I will drop the externals. As it is, I feel that it is less realistic to fly with externals off, because a joystick hat is so unnatural and difficult to use. In real life, turning your head is as natural as, well, turning your head.

Korolov
05-28-2004, 09:44 PM
With externals on, you'll have a much more difficult time, because of the external padlock ability.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

TooCooL34
05-28-2004, 10:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
Yar har har... I only fly on full realism, with the single exception of having external views enabled. And if I ever get a thousand dollars for a head-mounted infrared tracking monitor, then I will drop the externals. As it is, I feel that it is less realistic to fly with externals off, because a joystick hat is so unnatural and difficult to use. In real life, turning your head is as natural as, well, turning your head.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Looking at your post, your not P-38 type pilot.
P-38 isn't easy plane, and it shouldn't be easy plane against many other nimble fighters.

BS87
05-28-2004, 10:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
I'd recommend the L whenever possible. No doubt many folks will disagree with me, but the dive brakes are a must have, especially for evasion.

Generally, if you can score a few hits on a opponent's wing, you can be sure to outturn them. Of course the same is also true for you - if the P-38 takes wing hits, you won't outturn a B-17.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, i like the L beacuse of the diveflaps, but i can't choose between them and the P38J's speed. The J does ok with combat flaps, and it makes for an adrenaline rush when you finnaly pull out at tree top level, going 720kph+ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BennyMoore
05-29-2004, 02:20 PM
I was just in the Hard Mile Drive server a minute ago. Actually, I'm still there, and I alt-tabbed to post this. I am flying the P-38J, the faster of the two variants that we have.

I just got killed yet again by a nineteen forty two Mig. He is faster than me on the deck. He caught up with me slowly over the course of a minute or two, then of course outmaneuvered me when he caught me. He killed my pilot in a few short bursts.

The Lightning can outrun almost none of the enemies I come up against. The BF-109 G-2, the BF-109 G-6, the Migs... And these are all nineteen forty two!

VW-IceFire
05-29-2004, 02:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
I was just in the Hard Mile Drive server a minute ago. Actually, I'm still there, and I alt-tabbed to post this. I am flying the P-38J, the faster of the two variants that we have.

I just got killed yet again by a nineteen forty two Mig. He is faster than me on the deck. He caught up with me slowly over the course of a minute or two, then of course outmaneuvered me when he caught me. He killed my pilot in a few short bursts.

The Lightning can outrun almost none of the enemies I come up against. The BF-109 G-2, the BF-109 G-6, the Migs... And these are all nineteen forty two!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must be doing something wrong mate...I can outrun all of those planes, on the deck, with the throttles firewalled, the rad scoops closed (or set to auto), and so on and so forth.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

BennyMoore
05-29-2004, 04:51 PM
I'm not talking about carrying rockets or bombs, or after being damaged. I use automatic radiator and automatic propeller pitch.

Perhaps I should be fiddling with propeller pitch. What is your proceedure?

Care to hop onto Ubi.com and test it out a bit?

[This message was edited by BennyMoore on Sat May 29 2004 at 04:26 PM.]

Resident_Jock
05-30-2004, 12:27 AM
A big factor in success with the P38 is gun convergence. Believe it or not, the longer the better. If you set your .50's to converge at 1000 meters they will be more accurate at ALL ranges, even up close! This does not apply to the cannon, which behaves just like any other 20mm.

As for being outrun, it's true that many of the '44 planes can turn on the juice and outrun you. However that's why you gotta start with altitude on the guy. Which leads to my second point, successful boom and zoom in the P38 takes a little ingenuity but is still effective. You gotta remember to have a heavy lag persuit angle. Dive very steeply and apply dive brakes so that you come out of the dive right behind him, instead of slashing through like a normal plane. If you dive from high enough, you will come out without too much E-bleed and get time for a good 2 second burst. Use the .50's as soon as he reaches your sights and your 20mm when he fills the sight. Pick a wing and throw everything into it, then bank away in the opposite direction of that wing. For the enemy, it's like trying to follow a car in a left turn when your right tires are blown out.

The P38 is a wonderful plane to fly and fight in, but you gotta use it right. I have found that it is a fair match for a 190 up to the A8 (you will have problems with a D9 or A9), and that it can stand it's ground in a scissors by using combat flaps. If someone gets in right behind you, pull a "Top Gun" and drop everything you got. Flaps, airbrake, chop th throttle and snap roll. The enemy will sail right past nearly every time. Gotta do it when he's close though, like right on top of you! I actually got a 109 like that one time. I actually barrel rolled right over the top of him and PK'd him when he went past. One of my better shots, if I do say so myself http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://thecasualty.homestead.com/files/resident_siggy.jpg

El Turo
05-30-2004, 02:45 AM
Actually, perhaps I should have been more specific than to say "arcade".. what I WAS specifically asking about was external views.

With external views, it's damned near impossible to sneak up on anyone because of all the continuous F6/F5 humping (whichever it is.. don't remember off the top of my head).

The all-around views are slightly obstructed, yes.. but you'll benefit MUCH more by having the "sneak" factor enabled when the externals are dropped. Granted, that means you'll actually have to learn some situational awareness.. but that's the whole point anyway.

Give the Warbirds 44+ server a try out and see how you do! You might find that you actually enjoy it after a few sorties.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

3ra_DSLam
05-30-2004, 03:25 AM
Be agressive, fit your most red skins in the plane and be agressive http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif you opponent must thing that a "twin forked devil" is not a sitting duck", change his mind XD

Don't be feared to use high AoA, loose speed by making close turns, loose energy in any other way if you need...don't be afraid, you are not in a jug, you can recover energy easily. Move all the time like a single engine fighter. Use combat flaps&dive brakes. Shoot even if you don't take hits in the enemy, just scare your oponent. Just sweat the fight.

Just be agressive.

http://www.sarriacity.net/dslam/imagenes/DSLam2.jpg

[This message was edited by E111_DSLam on Sun May 30 2004 at 02:36 AM.]

RavagerOCHW
05-30-2004, 04:54 AM
I have the feeling that the P38 can loops very well. Once in a fight a saw a 109 in my mirror closing in behind me with an energy advantage. I did a short dive to gain energy and did a few loops and combined this with a circle climb. At the end the 109 dove away and did a run for it, but I survived.

BennyMoore
05-30-2004, 06:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by H_Butcher:
The all-around views are slightly obstructed, yes.. but you'll benefit MUCH more by having the "sneak" factor enabled when the externals are dropped. Granted, that means you'll actually have to learn some situational awareness.. but that's the whole point anyway.

Give the Warbirds 44+ server a try out and see how you do! You might find that you actually enjoy it after a few sorties.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I truly do miss the whole "scan the skies" bit and the ability to take people by surprise. But when I fly with no externals enabled, I get so very frustrated by the amount of skill and concentration needed to turn your head in the game. In real life, no skill and absolutely zero concentration are needed to turn your head. Duh! It's the very first motor skill a child learns. It's impossible to think about turning your head - you just do it. In IL-2, however, unless you have infrared tracking or something, you have to try really hard to get your pilot to turn his head to where you want it. And it's still impossible to get his head in between any of the pre-programmed directions (there are now nine in the horizontal plane, which makes it harder than when there were only seven, although you can see farther behind you now) unless you use the mouse, which I cannot do because it is on the other side of my joystick. To use the mouse would require me to move my left hand across my right hand on its joystick and fumble around three feet away from where my left hand usually is. And even then, the mouse isn't anywhere near as natural as just turning your ****ing head in real life.

In addition, the game does not render things even at high resolution (and I can only get ten twenty four by seven sixty eight) nearly as well as the human eyes do in real life. In real life, I can pick out individual cars well enough at five thousand feet to be able to put them in crosshairs like the ones in a world war two fighter, but in the game, you can't even put individual cars in your crosshairs at one thousand feet, unless you use zoom (which is also unrealistic, because the human eye cannot change its magnification).

And that, my friend, is why I use externals. It is not because I can't handle scanning the skies, nor because I can't handle situational awareness. It is because the system in the game is equivalent to having a real life plane be piloted by a severely handicapped man with very bad vision. It was never this hard for real pilots in world war two to turn their heads or identify targets.

Resident_Jock
05-31-2004, 03:15 PM
You can always just use the mouse to look around. I actually prefer it over things like padlock (though I haven't got TIR). With the mouse you can look wherever you want! I only use the views on my hat switch to look quickly over my shoulder.

http://thecasualty.homestead.com/files/resident_siggy.jpg

geetarman
06-01-2004, 12:36 PM
When I fly (P-38 mostly), I use a MSFFB stick in my right hand and the mouse in my left. I look around using the mouse. Yes, it means I can't have a hand on the throttle slider on the stick all the time, but after using this method for a few months it gets easy!

I never use the hatswitch to look around - it's too "mechanical" and unrealistic.

El Turo
06-01-2004, 12:52 PM
Bud, it's real simple. You've got yourself four options to chose from:

1) Make friends with your hat-switch and numpad for viewing. I highly recommend the following for your hat as the "immediate need/dogfighting views":

N - Forward/up
NW - Forward/left/up
NE - Forward/right/up
W - left
E - right
SW - back/left/up
SE - back/left/right
S - up

Then, you can use the numpad (if you don't have other buttons/hats free) for the more "casual" scanning views like forward left/right or backward left/right (this one being slightly more important).


2) Fly something more fitting of the external-server settings... a 109 for superior climb rate or some kind of furballer (zero, p40, etc)

3) Become the most unholy of unholy TnB monsters in your P38 the likes of which this world has never seen.

4) Be content to have moderate success with the P38 with externals enabled, mostly getting kills on target fixated enemies only.



These are your only four options as I see them.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

BennyMoore
06-03-2004, 10:57 PM
Heh! Uh, I think I'm going with option four.

I'd do the mouse thing, but I just don't have a place on my desk for my mouse to go where I can reach it with my left hand.

Well, back to my P-40E as my Allied plane, I guess...

Korolov
06-03-2004, 11:16 PM
Well, that would be your choice, of course. But I'd still stick with the P-38, no matter how outclassed she is.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg