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Shahkulu101
01-11-2014, 07:50 PM
I found an article that is heavily critical of ACIV's story, for reasons that seem to coincide with a lot of opinions here. I think sixkeys will definitely agree with one of his points; that being Edward choosing the Assassin's when he looked to have a more neutral and mature perspective of the Assassin's and Templar's. A heads up, there are no completely illogical 'Pirate's Creed' complaints in case that would deter you.

Anyway, enjoy: http://egamer.co.za/2013/11/thats-another-assassins-creed-something-special-much-missed-potential/

I sort of agree but Jaysus this guy's melodramatic...

Fatal-Feit
01-11-2014, 07:59 PM
I lost that guy when he made it obvious he was quite oblivious to Forsaken.

Shahkulu101
01-11-2014, 08:09 PM
I lost that guy when he made it obvious he was quite oblivious to Forsaken.

Well to be honest should something so important be left exclusively to a mere novel? I mean I'm sure Forsaken's great like everyone says but at the end of the day most of the fans aren't even aware of it's existence never-mind the events...

EDIT: I added one rather important word; exclusively.

STDlyMcStudpants
01-11-2014, 08:26 PM
I liked the story..was a bit let down that it wasnt personal enough...

Shahkulu101
01-11-2014, 08:31 PM
I liked the story..was a bit let down that it wasnt personal enough...

What? It was the most personal story since AC2, I think even more so. The Assassin/Templar conflict took a backseat for pretty much the entirety of the game to focus on Edwards's transition from Pirate scoundrel to well...a more respectable, less reprehensible individual. Everything is tied into who he is, even the name of his ship.

Fatal-Feit
01-11-2014, 08:34 PM
What? It was the most personal story since AC2, I think even more so. The Assassin/Templar conflict took a backseat for pretty much the entirety of the game to focus on Edwards's transition from Pirate scoundrel to well...a more respectable, less reprehensible individual. Everything is tied into who he is, even the name of his ship.

AC:3 was the most personal on many more levels. AC:IV is the second attempt, except with a cliche approach.

Shahkulu101
01-11-2014, 08:41 PM
AC:3 was the most personal on many more levels. AC:IV is the second attempt, except with a cliche approach.

It could have been personal but a lot of what could have been good Character development for Connor was botched by AC3 putting the dull American Revolution at the forefront. The epilogue rounds things off, but there wasn't enough in the main story - he plays errand boy for the patriots most of the time and continues to support them unquestionably after Washington gets found out and guess what..the patriot's were *******s and freedom wasn't achieved and his village abandoned him. I still love Connor though but Ubi screwed him.

STDlyMcStudpants
01-11-2014, 08:45 PM
What? It was the most personal story since AC2, I think even more so. The Assassin/Templar conflict took a backseat for pretty much the entirety of the game to focus on Edwards's transition from Pirate scoundrel to well...a more respectable, less reprehensible individual. Everything is tied into who he is, even the name of his ship.
No...
Pirate taking front seat and assassin taking backseat doesnt make the game personal...
It just gives a new ID...an ID is who we are..not WHY we are.
IMO The personal was in the the backseat and assassin was passanger..we got one flash back every few sequences and at the end *SPOILERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS* we met his daughter
I wanted personal in the driver..pirate in the passanger and assassin in the back in this game
I wouldve LOVED if these flashbacks were like the Cristina Missions in ACB where we actually interacted with our wife and made us care what happens to her and edwards relationship..
I didn't care about edwards life in the least..not as much as i cared about connor or even ezio

Shahkulu101
01-11-2014, 08:56 PM
No...
Pirate taking front seat and assassin taking backseat doesnt make the game personal...
It just gives a new ID...an ID is who we are..not WHY we are.
IMO The personal was in the the backseat and assassin was passanger..we got one flash back every few sequences and at the end *SPOILERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS* we met his daughter
I wanted personal in the driver..pirate in the passanger and assassin in the back in this game
I didn't care about edwards life in the least..not as much as i cared about connor or even ezio

Not what I meant... There was obviously piracy, but the focus was always Edward and ultimately how he changed and gave up on piracy and reckless ambition. it's a more human tale - with less focus on orders, philosophy etc.

STDlyMcStudpants
01-11-2014, 09:15 PM
Not what I meant... There was obviously piracy, but the focus was always Edward and ultimately how he changed and gave up on piracy and reckless ambition. it's a more human tale - with less focus on orders, philosophy etc.
I saw it more of a pirate tale than a human tale. Assassins creed 3 was a human tale... AC1 was an Assassin Tales AC2 was a mix of human and assassin
Its like writing an autobiography and all you talk about is your job and what your job requires from you

MasterAssasin84
01-11-2014, 09:24 PM
AC:3 was the most personal on many more levels. AC:IV is the second attempt, except with a cliche approach.


Agreed a million percent !! For example when Israel Putnam took a dig at Thomas Hickeys body after Connor Assassinated him I noticed Connors faith in humanity was ever more sincere ! it was literally he took Israel's reaction to the heart that two wrongs don't make a right !! Thats a personal Motive to me.


AC4 on the other hand yes it was Cliche ! which was very ironic considering Ubi made a point that they was digressing more into the real gritty Pirate theme.

Fatal-Feit
01-11-2014, 09:29 PM
It could have been personal but a lot of what could have been good Character development for Connor was botched by AC3 putting the dull American Revolution at the forefront. The epilogue rounds things off, but there wasn't enough in the main story - he plays errand boy for the patriots most of the time and continues to support them unquestionably after Washington gets found out and guess what..the patriot's were *******s and freedom wasn't achieved and his village abandoned him. I still love Connor though but Ubi screwed him.

Can't say I agree with this. Connor doesn't need an entire game focusing on simply his developement, or a just-deserved ending. AC:3 was suppose to be a tragedy, which is why Connor's story was shaped out that way. Connor was never once an errand boy either. I hate it when people say that. There was not one sequence that Connor supported the Patriots without them returning the favor, or for his Templar hunt. The demo summed up Connor's role in the war quite perfectly. ''Let the Patriots do their battles. I'm only here for the Templar.''

Back to topic; Connor was quite developed, actually. Everything that happens each sequence furthers his character. He grows, he matures, and he becomes less naive as his quest progress. What better way of developing Connor than allowing him to experience the truth of the world? With every target he kills, every tragedy that befalls him, he is given something to ponder about. His ventures with Haytham, his lectures from Achilles, they are all strong perspectives and ideals that contradicts one another. There is so much that have gone into this one man's head that you can't help but praise his convictions in the end.

With everything that have happened in his life, he still remains and he still fights. If not for his village, then for everyone's independence. You know what, thinking back on it, I don't think Connor needs a sequel. Everything in AC:3 was a solid, satisfying story, if not a good game. And now I want to replay AC:3 again.

Hans684
01-11-2014, 10:18 PM
Agreed a million percent !! For example when Israel Putnam took a dig at Thomas Hickeys body after Connor Assassinated him I noticed Connors faith in humanity was ever more sincere ! it was literally he took Israel's reaction to the heart that two wrongs don't make a right !! Thats a personal Motive to me.

Edward like Connor cares, but not at the same way or level. Remember when assassinating the Chinese Pirate Queen? Like Ezio he closed her eyes. I can give more examples, but don`t remember another events.


on the other hand yes it was Cliche ! which was very ironic considering Ubi made a point that they was digressing more into the real gritty Pirate theme.

Indeed it was but not at the level of the Ezio trilogy and ACIVBF is the most accurate pirate game so far. Compare POTC with ACIVBF and look up some history stuff before that to gett an even clearer view. Funny thing is that my interest for POTC is a lot less since ACIVBF.

killzab
01-11-2014, 10:32 PM
Edward like Connor cares, but not at the same way or level. Remember when assassinating the Chinese Pirate Queen? Like Ezio he closed her eyes. I can give more examples, but don`t remember another events.



Indeed it was but not at the level of the Ezio trilogy and ACIVBF is the most accurate pirate game so far. Compare POTC with ACIVBF and look up some history stuff before that to gett an even clearer view. Funny thing is that my interest for POTC is a lot less since ACIVBF.

Same here lol ! But that Black Sails TV show is looking to be interesting ...

And I agree with a lot of what the article says ...

Hans684
01-11-2014, 10:43 PM
Same here lol ! But that Black Sails TV show is looking to be interesting ...

And I agree with a lot of what the article says ...

Black Sails? Never heard of it. May look it up like i did Person Of Interest because of Watch_Dogs. While the article has some good points i kinda agree, but not fully.

Looked it up, a prequel to the full on cliche pirate movie Treasure Island and i lost interest at the same time.

killzab
01-11-2014, 10:53 PM
Black Sails? Never heard of it. May look it up like i did Person Of Interest because of Watch_Dogs. While the article has some good points i kinda agree, but not fully.

Looked it up, a prequel to the full on cliche pirate movie Treasure Island and i lost interest at the same time.

Well apparently they took a more gritty and realistic approach than Treasure Island, have you watched the trailers ?

And I like Person of Interest a lot.

Hans684
01-11-2014, 11:07 PM
Well apparently they took a more gritty and realistic approach than Treasure Island, have you watched the trailers ?

And I like Person of Interest a lot.

Just watch one trailer and it got my interest(kinda) back, but i remain skeptical.

Person Of Interest is a good way to wait for W_D and worth every penny.

Wolfmeister1010
01-11-2014, 11:25 PM
I thought the story was good, but had many flaws. My main issue was that there were NO mentions of assassins for like a 6 sequence gap in the game. Some may think "but it would be unrealistic for an assassin to be a ruless pirate, so he shouldnt go through his transtition until the end" but that doesnt mean that there should be NO assassins. I mean..at least have some of thr assassin charcacters there, maybe noting Edward's life and trying to get through to him, but with him not really listening. It would have been the perfect opportunity for Ah Tabai to be a very important character, but instead, he was made a minor character with 2 or three appearances.

Instead, the sequences 5-10 were..complete pirate ****. Having to do with finding medicine and stuff. Which would not be BAD, if they had at least mentioned the assassins, or some of them had appeared. Sure, we had Mary involved, who wasa n assassin, but as far as the story was concerned, she was just a pirate friend who happened to be an assassin, not an ASSASSIN character, and Edward never really gave it ANY thought. Maybe mary could have tried to slowly change Edward into an assassin, but instead she just scoffs at his drinking and gets mad when Edward postpones her kill.

I mean..I loved the blackbeard plot and stuff, but other than that, the "pirate" part of the story was, well...****. Entire sequences based entirely on irrelevant tasks, like getting off an island and dealing with Vane, or finding medicine. I feel like nassau took a WAY bigger part in the story than it should have. Just like the American Revolution was the BACKDROP to Connor's assassin quest, the rise and Fall of Nassau should have been the backdrop, not the entire basis of 6 sequences.

It is not enitireky the game's fault for not really giving the assassins any sort of valuable appearance..because the time period of pirates makes it extremely difficult..but that doesnt meant that we can't say it didn't exactly work.

Darb tried to include WAY too many characters in a story that was too short, which made it so that each character felt underseveloped in his/her own way. If you think about it, many of the characters didn't even need to be the game. I mean, the tenplar grandmaster, Torres, was completely forgettable, and as far as I am concerned, Woodes Rodgers would have made an equally effective grandmaster, (and a more interesting one). All of the things Torres did, like conversing with the Governor of Kingston, cood have been done by Rodgers. Even though Rodgers was in England much of the time, that doesnt mean that he couldnt have been a good grandmaster. Just look at Rodrigo Borgia. He was an extremely well made templar grandmaster character, and he barely made any appearances. He ALWAYS needed to "go to roma" or leave to venice or something. But he made HUGE impressions each time he appeared, unlike Torres.

The issue is that
1. Assassins took a MAJOR backseat in the story, acting as a sort of minor backdrop, and the pirate story took the main seat, when these roles should have been reversed in a sense. Edward's "transformation" should have began to occur earlier, when he could still act as a pirate without committing to the creed.
2. The story is filled with WAYY too many characters for them all to feel like well written, resulting in almost every one of them, like mary, to Anne, to Vane, to Jack, to even Ade feeling like a screwed over on screen time character.

Although AC3 had pacing flaws..I felt the overall story was very well written. Even though we were only with Connor (sequence 4 as a kid doesnt count) for 8 sequences, and with Edward for 13...I feel like Connor's story was MUCH more lasting, and relatable. Edward only began to be a true character in the last 2 sequences, which was truly a shame. A good character should deal with the problems throughout the story..whereas Edward literally did not give a **** until the story was at a close.

DinoSteve1
01-11-2014, 11:54 PM
Got as far as I loved AC3 in that article and knew exactly where it was going. That article was rather disappointing in its predictability.

Wolfmeister1010
01-12-2014, 12:02 AM
Got as far as I loved AC3 in that article and knew exactly where it was going. That article was rather disappointing in its predictability.

I dont think he ever said he loved AC3. He said he loved Haytham and was willing to forgive many of its story issues

killzab
01-12-2014, 12:23 AM
I thought the story was good, but had many flaws. My main issue was that there were NO mentions of assassins for like a 6 sequence gap in the game. Some may think "but it would be unrealistic for an assassin to be a ruless pirate, so he shouldnt go through his transtition until the end" but that doesnt mean that there should be NO assassins. I mean..at least have some of thr assassin charcacters there, maybe noting Edward's life and trying to get through to him, but with him not really listening. It would have been the perfect opportunity for Ah Tabai to be a very important character, but instead, he was made a minor character with 2 or three appearances.

Instead, the sequences 5-10 were..complete pirate ****. Having to do with finding medicine and stuff. Which would not be BAD, if they had at least mentioned the assassins, or some of them had appeared. Sure, we had Mary involved, who wasa n assassin, but as far as the story was concerned, she was just a pirate friend who happened to be an assassin, not an ASSASSIN character, and Edward never really gave it ANY thought. Maybe mary could have tried to slowly change Edward into an assassin, but instead she just scoffs at his drinking and gets mad when Edward postpones her kill.

I mean..I loved the blackbeard plot and stuff, but other than that, the "pirate" part of the story was, well...****. Entire sequences based entirely on irrelevant tasks, like getting off an island and dealing with Vane, or finding medicine. I feel like nassau took a WAY bigger part in the story than it should have. Just like the American Revolution was the BACKDROP to Connor's assassin quest, the rise and Fall of Nassau should have been the backdrop, not the entire basis of 6 sequences.

It is not enitireky the game's fault for not really giving the assassins any sort of valuable appearance..because the time period of pirates makes it extremely difficult..but that doesnt meant that we can't say it didn't exactly work.

Darb tried to include WAY too many characters in a story that was too short, which made it so that each character felt underseveloped in his/her own way. If you think about it, many of the characters didn't even need to be the game. I mean, the tenplar grandmaster, Torres, was completely forgettable, and as far as I am concerned, Woodes Rodgers would have made an equally effective grandmaster, (and a more interesting one). All of the things Torres did, like conversing with the Governor of Kingston, cood have been done by Rodgers. Even though Rodgers was in England much of the time, that doesnt mean that he couldnt have been a good grandmaster. Just look at Rodrigo Borgia. He was an extremely well made templar grandmaster character, and he barely made any appearances. He ALWAYS needed to "go to roma" or leave to venice or something. But he made HUGE impressions each time he appeared, unlike Torres.

The issue is that
1. Assassins took a MAJOR backseat in the story, acting as a sort of minor backdrop, and the pirate story took the main seat, when these roles should have been reversed in a sense. Edward's "transformation" should have began to occur earlier, when he could still act as a pirate without committing to the creed.
2. The story is filled with WAYY too many characters for them all to feel like well written, resulting in almost every one of them, like mary, to Anne, to Vane, to Jack, to even Ade feeling like a screwed over on screen time character.

Although AC3 had pacing flaws..I felt the overall story was very well written. Even though we were only with Connor (sequence 4 as a kid doesnt count) for 8 sequences, and with Edward for 13...I feel like Connor's story was MUCH more lasting, and relatable. Edward only began to be a true character in the last 2 sequences, which was truly a shame. A good character should deal with the problems throughout the story..whereas Edward literally did not give a **** until the story was at a close.

I couldn't agree more with EVERYTHING you said :)

DinoSteve1
01-12-2014, 01:10 AM
I dont think he ever said he loved AC3. He said he loved Haytham and was willing to forgive many of its story issues


"Hell, I was one of the few people I know who actually, not just liked but, enjoyed Assassin’s Creed III".

Ok he didn't use the word love but that sentence means the same thing.

MCRMJ
01-12-2014, 01:36 AM
I disagree on ACIV not being Assassin centric. You could argue that AC3 was Templar focussed and 4 favoured the Assassin angle.

The contrast in which the the two games deal with the Assassin order is quite stark. In 3 we have Achilles, who has given up on being an Assassin (with good reason, which lends credibility to the Templars being the dominant side in the historical part of the game). Connor is directed there out of purely selfish reasons on Junos part. We see the order in decline, Connor does turn things around by the end (shown if you do the optional recruits). In fact more time is spent on the Homestead and the relations between those characters, which was nice (in fact I feel like if the Homestead was mandatory, the negative opinions by some of Connor would ease, as he comes across extremely well in those exchanges, but I digress).

In ACIV we have Assassin bureaus in the main cities, they show their faces early on (not in Duncan, but in the streets trying to rescue the sage), Mary tries to convince Edward to align with them at nearly every opportunity, the creed is explained early on and is referenced again a few times, There's even a whole base devoted to the Assassin Order with Ah Tabi. The seeds of Edwards conversion are planted early on and get watered throughout and they are always present. The pirate sections inbetween build up to the prison section where things start to become clearer for Edward and the direction he should take. I can say that, though the flow of events is a bit all over the place for me.

I agree totally on HOW the characters are developed though, too many of them with little to go on before they are cut from the game.

AC3 had an even larger cast of bit roles so it was hard to care,the Templar group were very well done, though we had spent 3-4 hours with them at the start of the game.

So instead look at how AC2 handled supporting characters, all given suitable and MEANINGFUL time. Paula, Volpe, Leonardo, Sister Theodora, Antonio, Bartolomeo even Rosa, the Medici, Caterina. All smaller roles, yet strong characters. Rodrigo had little air time but you felt his presence throughout.

AC4 was very similar to ACR, lots of throwaway villains given little air time Shakulu? Palailogos? You could replace them with Du Casse or Torres. They never felt like a threat or rather, you never felt the need to stop them, despite having a decent plot in the Observatory. Roberts was well done (and also a bit more screen time) but even he gets cut short just as he's getting into his stride.

I'm not going to start moaning about the yearly releases (how can I when I still buy the games), but when things start to feel rushed then there is a problem. I honestly think there's too many cooks spoiling the broth, with different games in development by different teams at concurrent times, this was bound to happen. There's no single person spearheading a vision for the series.

My dream change for the series would be this -

Put Darby/Jade/Corey in sole creative charge of AC, pull the best of each of the teams working on the games into one studio, remove the yearly release schedule and allow the game to fully form over a longer period then see how it goes. Oh and spin Assassin's Creed Online off into its own entity, giving them the task of releasing something yearly or updating with expansions instead of fragmenting the online players into ever decreasing groups each year with a main game.

By all means continue with handheld/mobile spin offs and expanded universe stuff. Though to be quite honest at this point I do feel like less would be more as at the moment I feel like the end is drawing near, especially with the movie on the way. We all know how that worked out for PoP.

Wolfmeister1010
01-12-2014, 04:06 AM
I couldn't agree more with EVERYTHING you said :)

Oh thank God XD

silvermercy
01-12-2014, 02:04 PM
I actually quite liked the story.

What I agree with is his transformation should have started a bit earlier though. (of course there's the issue that Edward will still embark on pirate activities gameplay-wise anyway)
Also, I hate being stuck with Anne Bonny as my quartermaster in the end. I just can't stand her... I wish there was an option to replace her with Adewale instead (or Mary Read, whom I absolutely loved, but alas...). If she had more screen-time Anne wouldn't irritate me so much perhaps but now she does... -_-

aL_____eX
01-12-2014, 02:08 PM
How can you NOT like/love/adore Anne? I don't know yet, but if I had to guess, I'd say you are a girl? Then I would understand. :rolleyes:

silvermercy
01-12-2014, 02:09 PM
How can you NOT like/love/adore Anne? I don't know yet, but if I had to guess, I'd say you are a girl? Then I would understand. :rolleyes:
Yes, how did you guess? Here's a big huge cookie for you!! :rolleyes:

DinoSteve1
01-12-2014, 02:11 PM
I agree ACIV needs more Anne.

silvermercy
01-12-2014, 02:12 PM
I agree ACIV needs more Anne.
NO! I would jump off a cliff!!!!

aL_____eX
01-12-2014, 02:16 PM
Thank you silvermercy! :o But seriously, Anne could have been an interesting character, she has this wisdom in some scenes (I really don't know how to explain that!) and the way she talks, they could have made much more of her.

And no doubt, Anne is portrayed as a very attractive woman in the game, so I (personally) have no problems with her being the quartermaster.

silvermercy
01-12-2014, 02:18 PM
Thank you silvermercy! :o But seriously, Anne could have been an interesting character, she has this wisdom in some scenes (I really don't know how to explain that!) and the way she talks, they could have made much more of her.

And no doubt, Anne is portrayed as a very attractive woman in the game, so I (personally) have no problems with her being the quartermaster.

And I want Edward stuck in his harpooning costume. Where is his harpooning costume? Not fair... :(

*throws Anne to the sharks*

aL_____eX
01-12-2014, 02:24 PM
Ok, this discussion leads us nowhere. But I'd actually appreciate the option for Edward's harpooning outfit, just because it looks cool. I could imagine exploring some islands, hunting some panthers, wearing this outfit.

One thing I also want to say about characters: It makes me sad that very interesting characters like Mary and (for me) Ah Tabai (just because he is THE Assassin in the game) didn't get the screen time they actually deserved. And also the other pirates of Nassau, sometimes I didn't really get, how every single one of them changed and why and into what?! But I think most of the character were well written, especially Blackbeard was awesome.

ze_topazio
01-12-2014, 02:25 PM
What's wrong with Anne?

silvermercy
01-12-2014, 02:27 PM
What's wrong with Anne?
I don't like the way she combs her hair. :| She should be parting it the other way round.

DinoSteve1
01-12-2014, 02:28 PM
really?

aL_____eX
01-12-2014, 02:30 PM
I'm going to submit a ticket to Ubisoft support, if you feel more comfortable with her then. Let's see what they can do...


This is just meant to be a joke! :)


http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130718171307/assassinscreed/de/images/c/ce/Anne_Bonny.jpg

Anne... *sigh*

silvermercy
01-12-2014, 02:31 PM
really?
Yes. Actually, no.


Thanks Alex! :)

Shahkulu101
01-12-2014, 02:33 PM
Ok, this discussion leads us nowhere. But I'd actually appreciate the option for Edward's harpooning outfit, just because it looks cool. I could imagine exploring some islands, hunting some panthers, wearing this outfit.

One thing I also want to say about characters: It makes me sad that very interesting characters like Mary and (for me) Ah Tabai (just because he is THE Assassin in the game) didn't get the screen time they actually deserved. And also the other pirates of Nassau, sometimes I didn't really get, how every single one of them changed and why and into what?! But I think most of the character were well written, especially Blackbeard was awesome.

Out of all the Pirates, Hornigold is my favorite. I agree with almost every word he said - no one else had the same conviction in their hearts. He wanted a fair democratic republic, and ended up with a squalid, sickly ****ehole full of immoral, reckless criminals. In a way I think Blackbeard agreed, he just didn't like Ben's attitude and reserved some hope for Nassau where as Ben gave up completely.

aL_____eX
01-12-2014, 02:43 PM
Out of all the Pirates, Hornigold is my favorite. I agree with almost every word he said - no one else had the same conviction in their hearts. He wanted a fair democratic republic, and ended up with a squalid, sickly ****ehole full of immoral, reckless criminals. In a way I think Blackbeard agreed, he just didn't like Ben's attitude and reserved some hope for Nassau where as Ben gave up completely.
Ok, you are right with that. But some of them were just out of place for me. Like Jack Rackham, I didn't get his "story" in the game (only special scene was the prison interaction with Edward). What I actually wanted to say is, there where many individual storylines in the game, but some of them couldn't be 100% realized because of the main story with Edward. So some of the pirates didn't get the time to "tell their whole story and why they went where they did". Some things were just mentioned in passing.

But I know, you can't expect to get a detailed story for every protagonist in the game, although I would wish game developers would do it.

Shahkulu101
01-12-2014, 02:50 PM
Ok, you are right with that. But some of them were just out of place for me. Like Jack Rackham, I didn't get his "story" in the game (only special scene was the prison interaction with Edward). What I actually wanted to say is, there where many individual storylines in the game, but some of them couldn't be 100% realized because of the main story with Edward. So some of the pirates didn't get the time to "tell their whole story and why they went where they did". Some things were just mentioned in passing.

But I know, you can't expect to get a detailed story for every protagonist in the game, although I would wish game developers would do it.

I wish they'd make a considerably long AC game. One with 17 or even 20 sequences - with each sequence having a minimum of 5 missions except for maybe the first couple since they're sort of prologues or tutorials. Alas, yearly releases would make that impossible...

silvermercy
01-12-2014, 02:56 PM
Indeed. Only a very long game would give the myriad of important characters the required depth that some people think it's missing at times. Short or few sequences, in general, usually make some characters appear shallow and underdeveloped by default.

killzab
01-12-2014, 03:00 PM
I wish they'd make a considerably long AC game. One with 17 or even 20 sequences - with each sequence having a minimum of 5 missions except for maybe the first couple since they're sort of prologues or tutorials. Alas, yearly releases would make that impossible...

Like ACII, the only AC game I felt was as long as it needed to be.

DinoSteve1
01-12-2014, 03:01 PM
Hornigold was my least favourite character, I feel that he threw away his dream of a fair democratic republic, in order to help the Templers subjugate and force peace upon others. Not only did he betray all of his friends to do so he betrayed everything he supposedly stood for.

Shahkulu101
01-12-2014, 03:03 PM
Like ACII, the only AC game I felt was as long as it needed to be.

It's short. I recently completed it in 14 hours and that's including all tombs and a lot of assassination contracts.

aL_____eX
01-12-2014, 03:04 PM
Unfortunately, this will not happen to the AC series unless the decide to drop the annual releases. On one hand I love to have a game every year, excitement increases from March/April when the first information is out. But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure, AC games will not be something unique and really new anymore, as long as they push out one in a year (maybe two in the future! :nonchalance:)

Exactly silvermercy. That's the point. So many interesting characters in one SHORt game can not work!

LoyalACFan
01-12-2014, 10:25 PM
The guy has a couple of good points (tailing missions for instance) but I totally disagree with his main point that Edward should've been playing/exploring both sides. His eventual conversion to the Assassins was a bit rushed, I'll give him that, but why in the hell would Edward have any interest AT ALL in Templar philosophy? He's basically a proto-anarchist; his whole motivation for being a pirate was to escape the shackles of "civilized" society and live how he saw fit. What about that mindset would fit with the Templar ideology of a MORE restrictive society created by making themselves even more powerful than the kings Edward hated? He was all about freedom; even more so than the Assassins. He was a "free thinker," yes, but there's no way that "free-thinking" mind would have ever landed on a Templar worldview.

killzab
01-12-2014, 10:41 PM
The guy has a couple of good points (tailing missions for instance) but I totally disagree with his main point that Edward should've been playing/exploring both sides. His eventual conversion to the Assassins was a bit rushed, I'll give him that, but why in the hell would Edward have any interest AT ALL in Templar philosophy? He's basically a proto-anarchist; his whole motivation for being a pirate was to escape the shackles of "civilized" society and live how he saw fit. What about that mindset would fit with the Templar ideology of a MORE restrictive society created by making themselves even more powerful than the kings Edward hated? He was all about freedom; even more so than the Assassins. He was a "free thinker," yes, but there's no way that "free-thinking" mind would have ever landed on a Templar worldview.

Actually, I thought they would try to explain that pirates and assassins philosophies were compatible and by being a Pirate, Edward would grow into becoming an Assassin but in the end it wasn't the case and that's why they only made him become an Assassin at the very end, to justify him being a pirate.

joeyhayes
01-13-2014, 01:55 AM
Good point about Haytham. Thought he was the 2nd best character in the entire series behind Ezio, would love a dedicated Haytham game.

SixKeys
01-13-2014, 02:03 AM
Haytham is actually a lot more interesting if you don't know his backstory. In "Forsaken" it's explained that he was basically brainwashed from an early age by Templars to accept their ideology, when it would have been a lot more interesting to have him grow up mired in the assassin philosophy and then turn tail as a teenager and embrace the Templar ideals on his own.

luckyto
01-13-2014, 06:41 PM
I think the author is missing the most obvious point; and it is the core of the Assassin's political ideology since AC1: Freedom. The Assassin's embrace freedom of choice, freedom of religiion, freedom to choose one's own destiny VS having one's life determined or dictated by the Templars. This is the single core difference between both groups. They both kill to achieve those ends, and arguably, Templars are crueler in their approach.

Freedom is the core philosophy that the pirates and the Pirate Republic embraced. It is something that Edward was staunchly proud of from the very first sequences. Freedom from kings and empires. Freedom to live one's life as he see fit. Blackbeard talks about it, they all talk about it.

That only fits Assassins.

dbzk1999
01-13-2014, 07:07 PM
I think the author is missing the most obvious point; and it is the core of the Assassin's political ideology since AC1: Freedom. The Assassin's embrace freedom of choice, freedom of religiion, freedom to choose one's own destiny VS having one's life determined or dictated by the Templars. This is the single core difference between both groups. They both kill to achieve those ends, and arguably, Templars are crueler in their approach.

Freedom is the core philosophy that the pirates and the Pirate Republic embraced. It is something that Edward was staunchly proud of from the very first sequences. Freedom from kings and empires. Freedom to live one's life as he see fit. Blackbeard talks about it, they all talk about it.

That only fits Assassins.

^This

LoyalACFan
01-13-2014, 10:58 PM
Actually, I thought they would try to explain that pirates and assassins philosophies were compatible and by being a Pirate, Edward would grow into becoming an Assassin but in the end it wasn't the case and that's why they only made him become an Assassin at the very end, to justify him being a pirate.

... they aren't really compatible, though. You can't be both a pirate and an Assassin without being a hypocrite (exception being Mary who just used piracy as a front for her Assassin duties after meeting Ah Tabai). Pirates are all about breaking free from rules and doing whatever the hell they want, whereas Assassins are about adhering to a Creed to protect freedom for others. You can't be a pirate, killing and plundering indiscriminately, AND be an Assassin. In the end, Edward had to choose between one path and the other.

luckyto
01-13-2014, 11:13 PM
Yes, but the Creed is not a huge list of rules. It's like three rules. More like guidelines than actual rules. ;)

Yes, an Assassin can't go crazy killing innocents for the sake of treasure and plunder. But the Creed is about Freedom, first and foremost. It's a very flexible dogma. If you need to steal to protect people's from tyrants, steal. Kill to protect freedom, kill. Everything is permitted. It's far closer to the pirate way of life, which is a life without a central governing body ... life of freedom, than it is to a Templar philosophy.

LoyalACFan
01-13-2014, 11:20 PM
Yes, but the Creed is not a huge list of rules. It's like three rules. More like guidelines than actual rules. ;)

Yes, an Assassin can't go crazy killing innocents for the sake of treasure and plunder. But the Creed is about Freedom, first and foremost. It's a very flexible dogma. If you need to steal to protect people's from tyrants, steal. Kill to protect freedom, kill. Everything is permitted. It's far closer to the pirate way of life, which is a life without a central governing body ... life of freedom, than it is to a Templar philosophy.

I know, that's what I said on the last page :p People act like Edward should have toyed with Templar philosophy since he was a "freethinker," but that's just totally incompatible with his worldview. By contrast, both piracy and the Creed worked well with his "freedom at all costs" mindset, but they don't really work well together since piracy is all about improving your own lot in life while the Creed is about making a better world for everyone. He had to choose between being a pirate taking freedom for himself, and and Assassin winning freedom for the people.

luckyto
01-14-2014, 12:27 AM
Oh yes --- then we have an accord.

One thing I did agree with the author on: "We still don’t even know why Lucy had to die."

LoyalACFan
01-14-2014, 12:29 AM
Oh yes --- then we have an accord.

One thing I did agree with the author on: "We still don’t even know why Lucy had to die."

Because Kristen Bell only signed on for three games ;)

Lost Archive or no, that was probably the real reason. Her career has really taken off.

Black_Widow9
01-14-2014, 03:07 AM
Yes, but the Creed is not a huge list of rules. It's like three rules. More like guidelines than actual rules. ;)
:D
http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140110043515/pirates/images/e/e8/POTC_October2013HectorBarbossa.jpg

RinoTheBouncer
01-14-2014, 09:52 AM
I thought the story was good, but had many flaws. My main issue was that there were NO mentions of assassins for like a 6 sequence gap in the game. Some may think "but it would be unrealistic for an assassin to be a ruless pirate, so he shouldnt go through his transtition until the end" but that doesnt mean that there should be NO assassins. I mean..at least have some of thr assassin charcacters there, maybe noting Edward's life and trying to get through to him, but with him not really listening. It would have been the perfect opportunity for Ah Tabai to be a very important character, but instead, he was made a minor character with 2 or three appearances.

Instead, the sequences 5-10 were..complete pirate ****. Having to do with finding medicine and stuff. Which would not be BAD, if they had at least mentioned the assassins, or some of them had appeared. Sure, we had Mary involved, who wasa n assassin, but as far as the story was concerned, she was just a pirate friend who happened to be an assassin, not an ASSASSIN character, and Edward never really gave it ANY thought. Maybe mary could have tried to slowly change Edward into an assassin, but instead she just scoffs at his drinking and gets mad when Edward postpones her kill.

I mean..I loved the blackbeard plot and stuff, but other than that, the "pirate" part of the story was, well...****. Entire sequences based entirely on irrelevant tasks, like getting off an island and dealing with Vane, or finding medicine. I feel like nassau took a WAY bigger part in the story than it should have. Just like the American Revolution was the BACKDROP to Connor's assassin quest, the rise and Fall of Nassau should have been the backdrop, not the entire basis of 6 sequences.

It is not enitireky the game's fault for not really giving the assassins any sort of valuable appearance..because the time period of pirates makes it extremely difficult..but that doesnt meant that we can't say it didn't exactly work.

Darb tried to include WAY too many characters in a story that was too short, which made it so that each character felt underseveloped in his/her own way. If you think about it, many of the characters didn't even need to be the game. I mean, the tenplar grandmaster, Torres, was completely forgettable, and as far as I am concerned, Woodes Rodgers would have made an equally effective grandmaster, (and a more interesting one). All of the things Torres did, like conversing with the Governor of Kingston, cood have been done by Rodgers. Even though Rodgers was in England much of the time, that doesnt mean that he couldnt have been a good grandmaster. Just look at Rodrigo Borgia. He was an extremely well made templar grandmaster character, and he barely made any appearances. He ALWAYS needed to "go to roma" or leave to venice or something. But he made HUGE impressions each time he appeared, unlike Torres.

The issue is that
1. Assassins took a MAJOR backseat in the story, acting as a sort of minor backdrop, and the pirate story took the main seat, when these roles should have been reversed in a sense. Edward's "transformation" should have began to occur earlier, when he could still act as a pirate without committing to the creed.
2. The story is filled with WAYY too many characters for them all to feel like well written, resulting in almost every one of them, like mary, to Anne, to Vane, to Jack, to even Ade feeling like a screwed over on screen time character.

Although AC3 had pacing flaws..I felt the overall story was very well written. Even though we were only with Connor (sequence 4 as a kid doesnt count) for 8 sequences, and with Edward for 13...I feel like Connor's story was MUCH more lasting, and relatable. Edward only began to be a true character in the last 2 sequences, which was truly a shame. A good character should deal with the problems throughout the story..whereas Edward literally did not give a **** until the story was at a close.

This post has basically everything I ever wanted to say. Canít agree more, my friend.

I didnít HATE ACIV story but I didnít LOVE it either. And when I thought that ACIII deserved more missions as Connor, ACIV gave us more missions as Edward but it stripped away the importance in those missions. I felt like by the time we joined the creed there are 7 more sequences left, but just when the story started to get interesting, it ended. Itís like someone promising you of something really big happening tomorrow, and you go through today, and feel all the excitement and anticipation and when tomorrow comes, nothing ever happens. So itís excitement for nothing.

The story introduced way too many characters -as you said- and neither of them had enough time to develop, to make an impact. The Sage idea was smart and so was his appearance in present day but all that was given such a short time that it felt like a REALLY large plate with only only several rice seeds in the middle. It looks like a plate for a big meal but in fact, the contents are not. And just when I finished ACIV, I realized the value of ACIII.

Assassinís Creed III was such a diverse game. We played as the father, he turned out to be a Templar, we played as young Connor, we helped Connor develop, Connor became an Assassin and gradually, his naivety began to be replaced with more knowledge and understanding. To me, his story was definitely flawless except for the American Revolution backdrop that overstayed itís welcome. I was so happy to see the game not taking sides with Templars or Assassins. For the first time, Templar isnít labeled BAD GUY from the start and the game makes you think if the Assassins are really the good guys or theyíre just seeking false dreams. We were only being taught by one mentor and youíre the only Assassin out there. It made the game feel more serious, that youíre just one person, that youíre naive and you have to learn more, that thereís no one else to do the job but you. You feel the pressure and determination. The only thing that fell short in ACIII was the present day story which ended in a badly directed ending that made me wish Desmond choose to end the world, instead. However, thatís not our topic here.

ACIV presented a promising Assassin and I was really happy with Edward, almost as much as I was with Ezio but I felt like his story was incomplete or that we were given too many unimportant tasks to carry out, too many underdeveloped characters and too many plot points, that if given more time, wouldíve made the game impressive. They intended to give us a story about someone looking at the Creed from the outside, but the result was a game almost completely dismissing the Creed and not given much importance to Ah Tebai, Mary Reed or Anne Bonny who couldíve taken much more important roles in the game. Also, we returned to the fairy tale kinda villains where the bad guy is flat out bad guy, unlike Haytham who can really be considered both right and wrong, not to mention how these villains didnít even feel remarkable like Rodrigo Borgia was who despite being just BAD he made an impact, we actually feared him and wanted to just go and kill him already.

What scares me is that back with ACIII, we felt that weíre missing the past ACs and with ACIV, we even appreciate ACIII more. I fear that ACV will make us see the story of ACIV, which is heavily criticized by many, as a better alternative.