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View Full Version : SkyChimp and rollraters - WARNING 56k's 4 Large Scans



JRJacobs
07-15-2004, 06:23 PM
something i found in an old magazine

http://virtualjake.com/pg52.jpg
http://virtualjake.com/pg53.jpg
http://virtualjake.com/pg54.jpg
http://virtualjake.com/pg55.jpg

"if you're a story teller and someone listens while you tell that story you're an artist..."
"If you're a story teller and no-one is listening while you tell that story you're schizophrenic..."
"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."
-- Robert E. Lee
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[This message was edited by JRJacobs on Thu July 15 2004 at 05:35 PM.]

JRJacobs
07-15-2004, 06:23 PM
something i found in an old magazine

http://virtualjake.com/pg52.jpg
http://virtualjake.com/pg53.jpg
http://virtualjake.com/pg54.jpg
http://virtualjake.com/pg55.jpg

"if you're a story teller and someone listens while you tell that story you're an artist..."
"If you're a story teller and no-one is listening while you tell that story you're schizophrenic..."
"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."
-- Robert E. Lee
www.virtualjake.com (http://www.virtualjake.com)
Virtual Movie Forum at http://www.blacksheepwebdesign.net/VirtualWarCinema/

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[This message was edited by JRJacobs on Thu July 15 2004 at 05:35 PM.]

Waldo.Pepper
07-15-2004, 06:53 PM
Truly fascinating, wish I could see them.

Cajun76
07-15-2004, 07:38 PM
The last one shows up, but the rest aren't found. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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What if there were no hypothetical questions?

JRJacobs
07-15-2004, 08:08 PM
i am SO SORRY guys - i keep forgetting there's a differance between Pg52 and pg52... it should be fixed now

"if you're a story teller and someone listens while you tell that story you're an artist..."
"If you're a story teller and no-one is listening while you tell that story you're schizophrenic..."
"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."
-- Robert E. Lee
www.virtualjake.com (http://www.virtualjake.com)
Virtual Movie Forum at http://www.blacksheepwebdesign.net/VirtualWarCinema/

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HellToupee
07-15-2004, 09:03 PM
they all work for me

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

VW-IceFire
07-15-2004, 09:19 PM
Excellent and the conclusions basically fit what I was expecting to see and roughly what we have in the game in nearly all cases.

Interesting how the Tempest is awarded best roll VS the Spitfire at 350 mph. Thats what I had read but good to see it outlined again. Turn rate was worse than the Meteor which surprised me but similar to the P-47 should be alright.

Mustang wins hands down at range however http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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HellToupee
07-15-2004, 09:37 PM
didnt thunderbolt get the range award :P

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

ElAurens
07-15-2004, 09:45 PM
You guys can actually read that?

_____________________________

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BlitzPig_EL

HellToupee
07-15-2004, 09:50 PM
yes, tho some of the charts are a little difficult.

If the images appear small u must zoom in, in firefox which everyone shojuld be using over that POS IE, just click it.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

Blutarski2004
07-16-2004, 12:35 PM
Did anyone notice the ratings of the 109G series in speed and rate of roll? According to Isegrim/Kurfurst and Huckebein/Magister-Ludi this cannot be so.

The author of this article must be yet another ignorant chauvinistic idiot who doesn't know what he is talking about.

Hmmmm, how does this stuff ever get published?

BLUTARSKI

Nexus2005
07-16-2004, 03:26 PM
That's a great article, seems very balanced and sensible to me and only concerned with painting an accurate picture.

http://www.bobcs.co.uk/sig/Nexussig/sig2.jpg (http://www.bobcs.co.uk)

WOLFMondo
07-16-2004, 03:31 PM
Some of its hard to read but from those charts and his opinon the Tempest looks to be an excellent low level high speed fighter, especially teh MkII but the Spit XIV really shines out as a superior plane except in range.

Odd though how he states the P47 is best at rolling at high speed apart from the Tempest.

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Sandman_UK
07-16-2004, 04:15 PM
Thanks for posting this, great to read and some good details to know. The only bad thing is that my need to have the Spitfire MkIV in the game is now at fever point! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I would love to take that bird up against all the other late Mark fighters that are in the game! would make it a much fairer fight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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JRJacobs
07-16-2004, 08:06 PM
Author of article is...
Sqdn. Ldr. T. S. Wade, DFC, AFC, RAFVR

AFAIK a war hero from the Battle of Britain, and Chief test pilot for Hawker, but NOT AN IDIOT

P/O T.S.Wade of No 92 Squadron baled out of his Spitfire I (3287) over Exeter while on night patrol at Swansea Bay. Wade crash landed a Spitfire I (R6703) near Selsey after being hit by the return fire of a Ju 88 over the Solent on the 19th of August 1940. His Spitfire I exploded after he had got clear, he escaped injury. T.S.Wade was wounded in June 1941 flying a Spitfire V.

1949 1 August
The Society of British Aerospace Companies Challenge Cup, which is open to all the nation's jet aircraft, is won by Squadron Leader T.S. Wade flying Hawker P1040 (VP401) at an average speed of 821kph (510mph).

1951 3 April
Squadron Leader T.S. Wade, the chief test pilot of Hawker Aircraft, is killed in a Hawker P1081 prototype jet fighter when it crashes near Lewes in Sussex

to paraphrase George Carlin [why is everyone who drives slower than you an idiot, and everyone who drives faster than you an a$$hole....]
Why is anyone who doesn't support your point of view an idiot?

"if you're a story teller and someone listens while you tell that story you're an artist..."
"If you're a story teller and no-one is listening while you tell that story you're schizophrenic..."
"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."
-- Robert E. Lee
www.virtualjake.com (http://www.virtualjake.com)
Virtual Movie Forum at http://www.blacksheepwebdesign.net/VirtualWarCinema/

http://jrjacobs.mystarband.net/images/squad%20logo.jpg

biggs222
07-16-2004, 08:17 PM
what im getting from these reports is that the Spitfire mkXIV really was an OUTSTANDING plane...i want in soo bad in AEP....and in PF as it saw lot of action in both theatres

TAGERT.
07-16-2004, 08:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blutarski2004:
Did anyone notice the ratings of the 109G series in speed and rate of roll? According to Isegrim/Kurfurst and Huckebein/Magister-Ludi this cannot be so.

The author of this article must be yet another ignorant chauvinistic idiot who doesn't know what he is talking about.

Hmmmm, how does this stuff ever get published?

BLUTARSKI

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>ROTFL! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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TAGERT

SkyChimp
07-16-2004, 09:11 PM
Wait a minute now, I've always heard the Bf-109 was best at everything.

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/signature.jpg

faustnik
07-16-2004, 09:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
Wait a minute now, I've always heard the Bf-109 was best at everything.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have you numbers transposed SkyChimp, its the 190 that was the best at, well at least some things. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Abbuzze
07-17-2004, 02:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blutarski2004:
Did anyone notice the ratings of the 109G series in speed and rate of roll? According to Isegrim/Kurfurst and Huckebein/Magister-Ludi this cannot be so.

The author of this article must be yet another ignorant chauvinistic idiot who doesn't know what he is talking about.

Hmmmm, how does this stuff ever get published?

BLUTARSKI

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It´s quite simple, no prefix to the 109G, so it´s possible that this one was the often tested and flown "british" 109 G6/R6 with gunpods. Also Eric Brown flew this plane and also he didn´t mentioned that it was a R6.

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Vipez-
07-17-2004, 07:18 AM
Would be interesting to see how FW190 A-8 and A-9 and 109 G-10 / K-4 would fit in that article..


__________________________


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Kurfurst__
07-19-2004, 05:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blutarseki2004:
Did anyone notice the ratings of the 109G series in speed and rate of roll? According to Isegrim/Kurfurst and Huckebein/Magister-Ludi this cannot be so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blutto, blutto, you are sooo stupid again. Didn`t mama tell you that you will always end up being looking silly if you make such statements ? Didn`t you learn it the hard way already? Oh, you are slow to get the meaning, huh? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif In the first place, who exactly you are to tell what I think about that article ? Or is it your speciality to spread lies about others ?

Let me brush your memory. Be sure to have your -8.00 dioptry glasses on, because as I recall, the last time you 'shared' your rantings with the community about the 109`s roll rate, I confronted you with this document to which you had no answer - apart from that suddenly you couldn`t see it clearly, LOL ! How cheap. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

So, just for you, here`s the relevant line. It`s a controllability test of a 109G-1 :

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/109G_aileron_stability.jpg

"Rollzeit in Reiseflug (Vw = 450 km/h) : ~4.5 sec"
Time to roll in cruise flight (TAS = 450 km/h or 280mph) : ~ 4.5 sec or 80 deg/sec

Now,this article claims for 40 deg/sec for the 109G between 200-300mph. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Very believable, at least for someone as biased as Blutarseki. More so, it doesn`t really changes with speed at all, at 400mph, the article claims, it`s the very same, 40 deg/sec http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Moreover, there`s something funny about the 190`s roll rate. As per the article, it does 180 deg/sec at 200mph, 300mph, and even 400mph. Linear roll rate with speed? Sounds very unlikely, however it`s totally believable for people with extremely limited insight to the subject, like poor Mr. Blutarseki.

Personally, I would say the roll rate graph is just about 70% wrong in it`s statements, when compared to flight test data. Like, dive test. The article claims the all Spits would outdive both the 109 and 190. Funny that every test shows the exact opposite.. much of a wishful thinking here

There are other errors as well, probably because the author lacked the neccesary sources. The turning diagram is just a huge guess, IMHO. The speeds, altough Blutarski claims I tell the opposite (but are we surprised that his statements are not even in remote connection to the truth..?), are quite correct for a 1942-43 Bf 109G w/o methhanol injection or high altitude engines that were introduced in 1944 for them. Curious though, why then the author compares these with with Allied planes from 44-45? Oh, never mind, we know the answer. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif330mph at SL and 410mph at 20k ft is roughly correct for them in 42-43. But here`s another funny thing, the FW 190A is FASTER than the 109G at 30k ft - at least according this article.. hmm. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

But the article serves a good purpose giving some general idea, and even more so, it gives an idea to the reader about what is the importance of several performance specs and how they relate to the technical attributes of the plane.

Now of course people like Mr. Blutarseki only choose to believe the parts they like, because they desperately need something looking authority to give some credibility to their little 109-bashing campaign. I tell no secret, ever since he got here he puts up an campaign to make US planes absolutely uber and surreal, by
a, exxegerating US flight performance, failing every time to back it up.
b, raging his own little anti-LW campaign, desperately seeking to prove that every Axis plane during the war couldn`t pass 300mph in level flight, fell apart at 400mph in dives, and it took half an hour for them to complete a roll etc. His agenda is clear to everyone, but sadly in the meantime, I had humilated him so many times that it left permanent scars on his soul and he seeks revenge. Well, in a most pitiful way, but it suits him it seems.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The author of this article must be yet another ignorant chauvinistic idiot who doesn't know what he is talking about.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The author? Don`t think so, even though he has some errors.
But, to be honest, in your case, I think this could be applied, though. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Now, Blutto, I think you should hit the highway and sneak away now before you are proven even less... competent. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

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"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".
- Lt. Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

"One day a Tiger Royal got within 150 yards of my tanks and knocked me out. Five of our tanks opened up on him at ranges of 200 to 600 yards and got 5 or 6 hits on the front of the Tiger. They all just glanced off and the Tiger backed off and got away. If we had a tank like that Tiger, we would all be home today."
- Sgt. Clyde D. Brunson, US Army, Tank Commander, February 1945

Kurfurst__
07-19-2004, 05:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
Would be interesting to see how FW190 A-8 and A-9 and 109 G-10 / K-4 would fit in that article..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have 3 guesses to tell why they are NOT listed, LOL ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I think then Blutto would be very busy telling everyone what an "another ignorant chauvinistic idiot " the author is.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/fat-furred%20tigerB.jpg

"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".
- Lt. Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

"One day a Tiger Royal got within 150 yards of my tanks and knocked me out. Five of our tanks opened up on him at ranges of 200 to 600 yards and got 5 or 6 hits on the front of the Tiger. They all just glanced off and the Tiger backed off and got away. If we had a tank like that Tiger, we would all be home today."
- Sgt. Clyde D. Brunson, US Army, Tank Commander, February 1945

p1ngu666
07-19-2004, 01:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Now of course people like Mr. Blutarseki only choose to believe the parts they like, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

/irony http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

i cant read taht document, but nice soft focus effect, will work wonders for **** skin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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