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Aashay07
01-08-2014, 09:14 PM
Hello fellow Splinter Cells, it's been a while. While I was away, I think I had a wonderful idea germinating in my head and I believe it may the best we can get in terms of Classic SvM.

INFILTRATION MODE (Not to be confused with Conviction's Deniable Ops)

3 spies against 3 mercs.

LEVEL DESIGN:
Each map is HUGE and SANDBOXY and has 4 'hacking areas' cordoned off as independent rooms. Spies have to enter these rooms and hack data off laptops placed inside. Each room is filled with security measures like moving lasers, auto-detection cameras, motion sensors (the good stuff). If a security measure is disabled or disrupted, the room is sealed and in order to get out, the spies need to hack the vents or doors to allow for exit "HACKING TAKES TIME". Once notified of security failure or alarm, mercs can rush to the locked doors, open them from outside and terminate spies. Maps will be less claustrophobic and will consist of long corridors, corners, chokepoints, open ground, ziplines and multiple layers/floors/levels. Note that health is not regenerative and health packs need to be used to restore lost health.



SPY ARCHETYPE:
Spies work for 4th echelon and are sent to recover hostile data. Operational deniability must be maintained and that means ZERO casualties. Yes, you heard me. "Say bye-bye to that karambit". It's time to use your hands and go non-lethal. Spies cannot kill at all and have to resort to non-lethal combat-based takedowns. It gets harder, spies can only takedown mercs using abduction, ledge, aerial or gadget based takedowns. You see a merc standing in front of you, YOU RUN. Spies can be killed and in the event of the death of a spy, 4th echelon will introduce a new spy to the mission (UNLIMITED LIVES). I will highlight spy customization later.



MERC ARCHETYPE:
Mercs will be working for various PMCs around the globe. They are given the job to secure and protect the data. Use lethal force if necessary. Masters at weaponry and great physical strength. Are not as fast as spies or as agile. Since they will never be killed, the question of unlimited lives isn't present but if knocked out, there will be a small timer to allow for them to rejuvenate their strength. I will highlight merc customization later.



SPY CUSTOMIZATION:
Mandatory crossbow with customization of:

EMP grenade bolts-hit anywhere in environment to create EMP that deactivates all security and lights in that radius. Hit directly at merc to cause disorientation.
Shock bolts-Shoot at merc to cause speed reduction All other merc abilities are still active but translatory speed is reduced. Remember that mercs can still NOT be taken down when shocked. You have to use one of the takedown methods listed in order to takedown mercs.
Spy bullets-Similar to Chaos theory spy bullets.



Vision modes: Choose one between NVG(for use in shadow), Thermal (detects and highlights enemies and lasers), EMF(detects only security systems around the map)

Grenades:

Sleeping gas-1 second delay upon impact. Can KO up to 2 enemies.
Flashbang-Blinds enemies
Smoke grenade-Creates dense cloud of smoke that reduces enemies speed when they are caught within.
Concussion-Disorients and Creates loud noise upon impact, thus impairing hearing and vision temporarily. Speed is maintained.


All this integrated with some of Blacklist's customization for shadowblend, armor, noise reduction and traversal speed. No special torso abilities or any of that unrealistic stuff.



MERC CUSTOMIZATION:
Gun customizations as the current state remains. Flashlights are available for all guns but are not REALLY powerful. May provide little light for navigation in dark areas but not a powerful beam of light.

Vision modes: Choose between Noise tracker, Motion detection, Sonar (NOTE that Sonar does not act like in SP, but basically with every pulse of the sonar, instantaneous spy positions are highlighted. You have to wait for the next pulse in order to view the updated position of the spy. Also, sonar only has range of maybe 10 m and is disorienting when moving or near loud noises.)

Lethals:

Frags-Explosive
Proximity mines
Laser mines


Tacticals:

Flash trap-Wire-based trap. Place across corridors or doorways or vents.Spies who trip the wire are blinded for a couple of precious seconds.
Recon Drone-Flying drone that shoots projectiles that can attach to spies' bodies causing them to appear on merc radar. The drone can self-destruct too. NOTE that a merc is vulnerable to takedowns when controlling the drone
Shock mine-Small radius-of-effect proxy mine. When enemies walk over, they get shocked in place for a couple of seconds.



All this integrated with some of Blacklist's customization for speed, reload capability, extra ammo, weapon swapping. No special torso abilities or any of that unrealistic stuff.








So far, this is what has come into my head. Opinions, comments?

Ierr
01-08-2014, 11:08 PM
Just a few questions.

How many players? 4,6, 8, more? How many in each team? Should there be more spies than mercs (or opposite)?

Before the alarm triggered - what do the mercs do? Just walk around or they watch cameras like Blacklist mercs waiting for respawn? Are they allowed to place mines before alarm triggered (if they do - why? A bit unrealistic since there are a lot of security measures)

Why spies are stuck with crossbow if it only slowes mercs down? One shot is easy to miss and why fire at all if it doesn't give chance to run/takedown a merc?

KevinPDZ0916
01-09-2014, 02:49 AM
Interesting concept. I agree about the traditional hacking style and the security measures. This would allow us to have that legacy SvM concept that I want for future "SvM Classic" gamemodes. I like your integration of the customizations. However, the crossbow bullet customizations don't seem necessary unless you are being chased by the Merc, and if you have quick aim. Any spy who is sneaking around would be signaling suicide if they shot at a Merc, because they are already detected.

While I appreciate the pure stealthness of this idea, What I don't like is for the spies' inability to kill the Merc. This concept would not work well in an online multiplayer mode. Too many bad spy players would get way too frustrated and quit. The diehard CT SvM vets would love it, sure, but the online community would be much lower than what Blacklist is right now. I like the mechanic of lethal spy attacks in melee confrontations for Blacklist, but it needs to be adjusted somewhat. I feel that Ubisoft would be making too much of a risk doing this. It's one thing to replicate legacy SvM gameplay, but it's another thing to strip down any killing of the Merc completely.

Dome500
01-09-2014, 03:04 AM
LEVEL DESIGN:
Each map is HUGE and SANDBOXY and has 4 'hacking areas' cordoned off as independent rooms. Spies have to enter these rooms and hack data off laptops placed inside. Each room is filled with security measures like moving lasers, auto-detection cameras, motion sensors (the good stuff). If a security measure is disabled or disrupted, the room is sealed and in order to get out, the spies need to hack the vents or doors to allow for exit "HACKING TAKES TIME". Once notified of security failure or alarm, mercs can rush to the locked doors, open them from outside and terminate spies. Maps will be less claustrophobic and will consist of long corridors, corners, chokepoints, open ground, ziplines and multiple layers/floors/levels. Note that health is not regenerative and health packs need to be used to restore lost health.


One gripe: We need more than 4 objectives, ideally 5 or 6.

The objectives should not be just each in a room and corridors connecting them, but the objectives should rather be scattered in the environment and there shouldn't be "areas", but there should just be a huge map without any central points.

Hacking should be stationary, and there shouldn't be just close hallways. The way the gameplay is at the moments the Mercs would have even a bigger advantage than at the moment.


Spies work for 4th echelon and are sent to recover hostile data. Operational deniability must be maintained and that means ZERO casualties. Yes, you heard me. "Say bye-bye to that karambit". It's time to use your hands and go non-lethal. Spies cannot kill at all and have to resort to non-lethal combat-based takedowns. It gets harder, spies can only takedown mercs using abduction, ledge, aerial or gadget based takedowns. You see a merc standing in front of you, YOU RUN. Spies can be killed and in the event of the death of a spy, 4th echelon will introduce a new spy to the mission (UNLIMITED LIVES). I will highlight spy customization later.

Okay:

1. This makes no sense. If a Merc sees me deniability is gone (if you look from a realistic POV)
2. If Spies are non-lethal only the Merc have to be WAY less lethal, otherwise it's just going to be a slaughter, because as things are at the moment Mercs can kill with 2 or 3 hits, which does make escaping when seen almost impossible no matter the situation
3. Kills should be possible from behind or above (choke hold, DFA)


Mercs will be working for various PMCs around the globe. They are given the job to secure and protect the data. Use lethal force if necessary. Masters at weaponry and great physical strength. Are not as fast as spies or as agile. Since they will never be killed, the question of unlimited lives isn't present but if knocked out, there will be a small timer to allow for them to rejuvenate their strength. I will highlight merc customization later.

If the Mercs are never killed they basically "witnessed" the Spies stealing the Intel...


Mandatory crossbow with customization of:

EMP grenade bolts-hit anywhere in environment to create EMP that deactivates all security and lights in that radius. Hit directly at merc to cause disorientation.
Shock bolts-Shoot at merc to cause speed reduction All other merc abilities are still active but translatory speed is reduced. Remember that mercs can still NOT be taken down when shocked. You have to use one of the takedown methods listed in order to takedown mercs.
Spy bullets-Similar to Chaos theory spy bullets.

EMP and Spy bullets sound cool.


Vision modes: Choose one between NVG(for use in shadow), Thermal (detects and highlights enemies and lasers), EMF(detects only security systems around the map)

Agreed.



Grenades:

Sleeping gas-1 second delay upon impact. Can KO up to 2 enemies.
Flashbang-Blinds enemies
Smoke grenade-Creates dense cloud of smoke that reduces enemies speed when they are caught within.
Concussion-Disorients and Creates loud noise upon impact, thus impairing hearing and vision temporarily. Speed is maintained.

Little correction here:

Sleeping Gas
Flashbang
Smoke
EMP Grenade
Tear Gas
Concussion (though flashbang almost has the same effect man)


Gun customizations as the current state remains. Flashlights are available for all guns but are not REALLY powerful. May provide little light for navigation in dark areas but not a powerful beam of light.


I agree.

Light should be bright of course, but the range should be limited, and the further away the wall is the less light should fall on it. And if you have different ranges for walls/objects in front of you should be the rule: the brighter parts (those which are closer), the less you see on the pars which are further away (and darker).


Vision modes: Choose between Noise tracker, Motion detection, Sonar (NOTE that Sonar does not act like in SP, but basically with every pulse of the sonar, instantaneous spy positions are highlighted. You have to wait for the next pulse in order to view the updated position of the spy. Also, sonar only has range of maybe 10 m and is disorienting when moving or near loud noises.)

I wouldn't include Sonar, even with the pulses.

I would do it like:

Noise Tracker
Motion Detection (Detects motion within FOV)
Motion Tracker (further range but just red dots on a radar)


Before the alarm triggered - what do the mercs do? Just walk around or they watch cameras like Blacklist mercs waiting for respawn? Are they allowed to place mines before alarm triggered (if they do - why? A bit unrealistic since there are a lot of security measures)


I agree.

CamNet should be back and the Mercs should place the local traps themselves. Standard security measures would exist, but any further measures would have to be taken by the Mercs.


Interesting concept. I agree about the traditional hacking style and the security measures. This would allow us to have that legacy SvM concept that I want for future "SvM Classic" gamemodes. I like your integration of the customizations. However, the crossbow bullet customizations don't seem necessary unless you are being chased by the Merc, and if you have quick aim. Any spy who is sneaking around would be signaling suicide if they shot at a Merc, because they are already detected.

While I appreciate the pure stealthness of this idea, What I don't like is for the spies' inability to kill the Merc. This concept would not work well in an online multiplayer mode. Too many bad spy players would get way too frustrated and quit. The diehard CT SvM vets would love it, sure, but the online community would be much lower than what Blacklist is right now. I like the mechanic of lethal spy attacks in melee confrontations for Blacklist, but it needs to be adjusted somewhat. I feel that Ubisoft would be making too much of a risk doing this. It's one thing to replicate legacy SvM gameplay, but it's another thing to strip down any killing of the Merc completely.

I mostly agree.

The problem here is that with those fast-paced mechanics, and especially since you suggested the Merc should have motion detectors and flashlights and the like, it would be way to problematic to make Spies COMPLETELY non-lethal. Mostly non-lethal, I agree on, but there should be those lethal measures I mentioned above. There also should be shadowblend of course.

And the Laptops or PC's which are hackable (again - best would be 5 - 6 and NOT in any central area, but scattered, no "ZONES" per se, but rather a huge map. The lockdown of course could shut down a specific area, but that shouldn't influence the overall map design to be separated into zones.

Also, opening this shutdown should be possible from INSIDE and OUTSIDE of the are which is shut down (Teammates can help each other).

TheRealGunnut19
01-09-2014, 06:34 AM
The number of hits it takes on average to kill a spy really should be fine tuned in SC7, it took far too many hits in Legacy SvM, and too few, considering the resistance of mercs, in Blacklist's SvM.

Melee also should be from behind as well as from ledges/higher ground. But it needs to be less simple than "Is behind merc, can kill merc.

The press/hold function of melee in SP/Co-op in B could be of use for this. You attack a merc from behind and hold X, you grab him to be used for leverage or to kill, press X, and you knock him out. Having to hold X means that you can't mash the button to get a kill. Ledge grabs can be always lethal, given the relatively low chance of getting one

But, i you've taken bullet damage, you cannot grab, and the knockout hitbox is narrowed, forcing you to stun and flee (No melee on stunned mercs, seriously), or hope that you can hit that hitbox.

I do agree with some of the above that the risk-reward of a 1-shot stun gun is too low, more ammo per magazine or a Taser SMG (Semi-auto could be a more fair way for the gun to be.) like CT would be a good idea, can't attack the merc, but you have more ammo to hit him with before you GTFO.

king of ur hill
01-09-2014, 07:22 AM
i love everything i just read for the most part. except for one thing, that damn crossbow... this isnt the 1800's lol

syko2308
01-09-2014, 03:23 PM
Nice idea but it is sad that we will never have something like you described above.



i love everything i just read for the most part. except for one thing, that damn crossbow... this isnt the 1800's lol
Even some shooting weapons have been developed in the 1800's or earlier. And in SC they don't use a crossbow from the 1800's....just take a look on modern crossbows or normal bows....

king of ur hill
01-09-2014, 03:43 PM
Nice idea but it is sad that we will never have something like you described above.



Even some shooting weapons have been developed in the 1800's or earlier. And in SC they don't use a crossbow from the 1800's....just take a look on modern crossbows or normal bows....

i still think it'd dumb for a modern spy to have a crossbow. thats just my opinion. not looking to get into a debate over it. why not a bullpup or an smg like weapon that shoots sticky shockers like in CT.


Back to the post, what i really love about this idea is 3v3. i feel like 2v2 is not quite enough people, and 4v4 is a little too much. I dont play blacklist mode that often but i love when we get a game with 3 on each team. feels right. not too crowded yet not empty.

Dome500
01-09-2014, 05:09 PM
Melee also should be from behind as well as from ledges/higher ground. But it needs to be less simple than "Is behind merc, can kill merc.

The press/hold function of melee in SP/Co-op in B could be of use for this. You attack a merc from behind and hold X, you grab him to be used for leverage or to kill, press X, and you knock him out. Having to hold X means that you can't mash the button to get a kill. Ledge grabs can be always lethal, given the relatively low chance of getting one


Exactly, that was what I was thinking about.

1. Less DFA range
2. Ledge Grabs and DFA do NOT show a button prompt if a Merc is below/above you and in DFA/LedgeGrab range. You will have to guess the right moment and if you miss it your Spy simply drops down and is exposed (of course we need a "tolerance zone" in order to make it not too frustrating, since the Mercs are moving)

3. The BRILLIANT idea (no sarcasm) that "Hold X" for ChokeHold and "Press X" for a quick kill should be established. That would be awesome.
4. No frontal ChokeHolds obviously
5. Mercs have frontal advantage, ALSO taking into account the possible LAG please, so we need some kind of "tolerance zone" in terms of range and the "right moment" as well for Merc melee.


But, i you've taken bullet damage, you cannot grab, and the knockout hitbox is narrowed, forcing you to stun and flee (No melee on stunned mercs, seriously), or hope that you can hit that hitbox.


This.

No melee on stunned Merc and bullet damage = no Choke Hold possible, and less chance of frontal-melee success.

Also, I thought about some new gadgets.

I think to add a shocker and a sleeping gas to the sticky cam, replacing the explosive, would be good.

You can not have both, but only choose either or (in customization).

Shocker would stun obviously, sleeping gas lies the Merc down for a while.

Maybe an addition of tear gas for the sticky cam, or a tear gas grenade would accommodate the Panther style. But the Mercs should be able to do SOMETHING while being stunned by Tear Gas. Maybe Melee only. Since the FOV is all green and disorienting it would be a challenge to actually do a successful melee on a Spy while being in tear gas.

Counter-Gadgets would be: Gas Mask and Anti-Shock Torso or Anti-Shock Pants for example.


I do agree with some of the above that the risk-reward of a 1-shot stun gun is too low, more ammo per magazine or a Taser SMG (Semi-auto could be a more fair way for the gun to be.) like CT would be a good idea, can't attack the merc, but you have more ammo to hit him with before you GTFO.

Yes, 2 or 3-shot burst crossbow shockers or a semi-automatic shocker (with a disadvantage compared to the crossbow of course (and the other way around)) would help.

Additionally - to avoid exploits - the Spy should only be able to shock a Merc 1 time and then have to wait 5 seconds to shock him again. (Temporary Shock-resistance)


except for one thing, that damn crossbow... this isnt the 1800's lol

The crossbow is often used in military special operations because (modern mechanical) crossbows are very silent and stealthy and can have a lot of different ammo which can be carried in greater amounts than normal weapons and which can be used for silent precision shots or to get an explosive in the middle of enemies without them realizing it (because a crossbow bolt is not immediately seen and not automatically perceived as a serious threat.


Back to the post, what i really love about this idea is 3v3. i feel like 2v2 is not quite enough people, and 4v4 is a little too much. I dont play blacklist mode that often but i love when we get a game with 3 on each team. feels right. not too crowded yet not empty.

I would think it to be cool to be able to customize everything from 2v2 up to 5v5

3v3 is optimal, I agree, but sometimes 10 players are fun, sometimes only 4 players are fun.

I think it depends on the mode.

Imagine a map which is not centralized, the terminals, laptops and computers (all types are used for hacking) are not lit up and in the middle of a "zone" and there are about 5 - 6 hacking places.

You just have a huge map, no special zones. The Mercs get of course shown where the terminals are. They can lay traps, look at camnet, etc, just like the old days.

Without those "zones" there are no pressing areas, no "confrontation areas" where everyone is in once a hack started.

The Spies can hack 2 terminals at the same time (not more), they can interrupt hacks and continue later on with them (with a little penalty of + 5% hacking time of course, to make it not too easy for Spies).

The only time when there are actual "ZONES" is the scenario Aashay described if the Spy triggers a trap or is seen on the camera (if seen on the Camera the Merc can "Mark" the Spy and then the area he is in is closed.

Again, there are no actual Zones, the zones are only defined by the lockdown if a Spy slips up, but otherwise the Map is absolutely open. Not 3 zones with connecting hallways, but rather one huge map in which special zones around the terminals CAN be locked down if the Spy is identified by a camera, laser, or triggers a gadget.

Standard security is:

Camera (CamNet)
Some Lasers
Alarm Device close to the terminal informing a Merc a Spy is near a terminal

Possible Gadgets are:

Laser triggers laid out by the Mercs themselves
Trip-Mines, either on the ground or pinned on a wall (with laser or contact trigger)
1 Special, additional Security Camera a Merc can position himself everywhere he wants (at least in every place he can access)

Spies can deactivate those (standard AND gadget) security measures with EMP grenades, EMP devices or by shooting at it (though shooting at it could cause an explosion based on the type of device).

Now, if the Spy deactivates a security device set up by a Merc, the Merc who set it up is informed.
If he deactivates cameras then the Merc only sees snow (you know what I'm talking about).
If he deactivates the other "standard" security measures the Merc will be not informed, but he will be of course be informed of a hack starting (so you win some seconds, but not much as a Spy).

Then there are things in the environment to manipulate.

Spies can deactivate vent fans to open up new ways to the objectives.

Of course there are no inaccessible zones, the manipulation of the vent fan(s) only opens up an alternate path to an objective which was already accessible on other ways.

Spies can also manipulate the Server Security System to set back the "hack started" alarm for 2 - 3 seconds (not more, otherwise it's unfair).

Spies also can hack the camnet and activate a loop, so that the Merc only see the area, but the Spies are invisible for them.

Those manipulations are set back after a certain time (30 seconds, 1 minute, something around this time).
The Vent Fan manipulation has to be set back by the Mercs manually.

Now, the Mercs, like you already mentioned, can lock down an area by "marking" a Spy on the camera feed if they saw one or by running to the zone and activating the lockdown manually.

There has to be - of course - a recharge time for this, so constant lockpdown is not possible.
Also, the Mercs can only have 1 lockdown at a time. So you can't lock down the access to 2 terminals.

Spies can also manipulate the lockdown (BIG recharge time), to trap in Mercs and win some seconds.
The Mercs however can easily open the doors again by going towards them an opening them manually (takes 2 - 3 seconds to open them, enough time for Spies to set a trap, but not enough to win a lot of time for a hack).

Just some ideas....

Aashay07
01-09-2014, 08:58 PM
Nice to see some developing ideas brought to the table. You should know that the original post was just a huge collection of ideas put together with some organization. "Also it was 1:00 a.m. so..... :p"

But to answer some of the questions specifically relating to the non-lethality of spies:
It was thought of to add an extra challenge to the spy playstyle. It's extremely easy to melee or even shoot mercs down in SvM Blacklist!! I remember being able to take down mercs while hidden behind cover using just an SC-IS pistol. But more to the specific takedowns and denial of takedowns from anywhere around a merc's 360... In my numerous hours of playing Chaos Theory SvM, I've noticed some really absurd grab kills and jump kills in CT. here are some of the ways you could set up kills:
*Smoke grenade on merc, KO!
*Smoke grenade on merc, merc slowed down, Grab!!
*Smoke grenade on merc, merc slowed down, wall jump KO!!
*Quick-fire sticky cam, merc KO!!
*Land 5 metres away from merc, KO!!
*Lag? Too bad! KO!!

Even in CT, the 'cat-and-mouse' dynamic of spies vs. mercs is not entirely present. Spies should be able to defend themselves from mercs. But engaging a merc should be AT YOUR OWN RISK. Denying 360 degree spy melee forces spies to run when spotted and disappear. When playing as a spy, you need to feel like you are the prey and you need to save your life. Also, if you want, you can use gadgets strategically to KO mercs (in case melee isn't your style).



While I appreciate the pure stealthness of this idea, What I don't like is for the spies' inability to kill the Merc. This concept would not work well in an online multiplayer mode. Too many bad spy players would get way too frustrated and quit. The diehard CT SvM vets would love it, sure, but the online community would be much lower than what Blacklist is right now. I like the mechanic of lethal spy attacks in melee confrontations for Blacklist, but it needs to be adjusted somewhat. I feel that Ubisoft would be making too much of a risk doing this. It's one thing to replicate legacy SvM gameplay, but it's another thing to strip down any killing of the Merc completely.

I strongly feel that if people wanna rage quit, they will rage quit. No matter how easy or hard or interesting you make the game. And people looking for a fast-paced gameplay already have SvM Blacklist. I intended this mode to be dedicated to long time classic SvM fans with a few improvements (imho) from Chaos Theory. Also, this plan is just rough. The final product (if we do get one) will surely have better integration of systemic elements.

I also strongly feel that classic SvM game mode SHOULD NOT be dumbed down to be made accessible to the mass public. SvM classic should have its independence and should bring about the good old stealthy gameplay that many fans of the original SC trilogy love and respect. This should be a hail to them.


The press/hold function of melee in SP/Co-op in B could be of use for this. You attack a merc from behind and hold X, you grab him to be used for leverage or to kill, press X, and you knock him out. Having to hold X means that you can't mash the button to get a kill. Ledge grabs can be always lethal, given the relatively low chance of getting one.
I like that idea. Also, we could take the idea from the SP/COOP that security devices(lasers, motion detectors, RFID doors) are disabled due to a merc's 'electronic shadow'. If Dome's idea of having merc tolerance zones could be smoothly implemented in game, we could see the introduction of spy melee and integration with human shields.
Also, here's a cool 'CLASSIC' feature:
If a spy holds a merc as human shield, and he is close to a hackable laptop, the spy can go near the laptop with his captive and 'FORCE' the captured merc to interact with the laptop thus giving him instant access to the laptop's files. After that, the merc get's knocked out. But this is all providing the merc does not get choked out of breath before he is transported to the hacking station.

Dome500
01-09-2014, 10:58 PM
If a spy holds a merc as human shield, and he is close to a hackable laptop, the spy can go near the laptop with his captive and 'FORCE' the captured merc to interact with the laptop thus giving him instant access to the laptop's files. After that, the merc get's knocked out. But this is all providing the merc does not get choked out of breath before he is transported to the hacking station.

Interesting idea. This could make for some awesome gameplay strategies if we manage to establish restrictions which don't make it too easy to use this.

I would not say instant access.

let's say The Merc gives you access to the Laptop and instead of needing the normal time you need for a hack, you only need 10% of the hacks time. So if a (stationary) hack takes 25 seconds approximately (this game is fast-paced, so the hacks have to be adjusted to the new mechanics to not make it too easy) a Spy would gain access within 2.5 seconds if he "forces" a Merc to give him the data.

The downside would be that the Merc would probably call his fellow Mercs. You will be notified as a Spy though that he uses his Radio Chatter (his Voice Chat) and you can decide:

A. If you think you'll manage it in that time and can risk "forcing" him to give you the data OR
B. Kill the Merc for communicating with his teammates and either escape or start hacking on your own (which can be interrupted faster and an escape is easier without a Merc in your chokehold).

TheRealGunnut19
01-09-2014, 11:13 PM
The downside would be that the Merc would probably call his fellow Mercs. You will be notified as a Spy though that he uses his Radio Chatter (his Voice Chat) and you can decide:

A. If you think you'll manage it in that time and can risk "forcing" him to give you the data OR
B. Kill the Merc for communicating with his teammates and either escape or start hacking on your own (which can be interrupted faster and an escape is easier without a Merc in your chokehold).

Interesting idea. What would be of issue is Skype and other external voice chat software, making the ability to see that the merc is calling his buddies over moot.

Dome500
01-09-2014, 11:32 PM
Interesting idea. What would be of issue is Skype and other external voice chat software, making the ability to see that the merc is calling his buddies over moot.

Indeed.

But that's not so important. As good player you will assume he calls his friends anyway and think about a plan considering this.

TheRealGunnut19
01-10-2014, 01:46 AM
Indeed.

But that's not so important. As good player you will assume he calls his friends anyway and think about a plan considering this.

True. Expecting the unexpected/predictable/somewhat-expected is key in SvM.