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View Full Version : 3 things regarding the New PhysX Smoke update



Questions2ask
12-20-2013, 08:02 PM
Quick video I threw together:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiA6MjdAzJE

Damian....
12-20-2013, 08:29 PM
Should have added the 4th thing, why does PhysX run crappy on Nvidia hardware even with a dedicated PhysX card installed. :p

Questions2ask
12-20-2013, 08:34 PM
Should have added the 4th thing, why does PhysX run crappy on Nvidia hardware even with a dedicated PhysX card installed. :p

It doesn't. People that complain about this run games at settings their comp cannot handle and think that they're comp can handle it and use comparisons that don't prove anything as justification. The way people THINK things work, the way people THINK THINGS should work, and the way things actually work, are three different things.

Damian....
12-20-2013, 08:38 PM
Yes it does. Have you tried reading the Neogaf performance thread for this game, Kotaku or the Youtube complaints of people with Nvidia hardware having trouble running the game smoothly? Have you watched the Official Nvidia video showcasing the effects that has trouble maintaining a smooth framerate and even has dips to the 20's and what looks like the teens? It may run decently enough for some people, but for the majority of people, PhysX makes an already badly running game even worse.

I would like to encourage anyone that has the game running smoothly with PhysX enabled post a video showing proof of this, because so far the general consensus and video proof from Nvidia themselves, the game runs very poorly with it enabled.

Questions2ask
12-20-2013, 08:54 PM
Yes it does. Have you tried reading the Neogaf performance thread for this game, Kotaku or the Youtube complaints of people with Nvidia hardware having trouble running the game smoothly? Have you watched the Official Nvidia video showcasing the effects that has trouble maintaining a smooth framerate and even has dips to the 20's and what looks like the teens? It may run decently enough for some people, but for the majority of people, PhysX makes an already badly running game even worse.

I would like to encourage anyone that has the game running smoothly with PhysX enabled post a video showing proof of this, because so far the general consensus and video proof from Nvidia themselves, the game runs very poorly with it enabled.
Sorry to break it to you but, general consensus means nothing because if 55 out of 60 people all run the game on settings their computer cannot handle, of course they're going to all be in agreement, that doesn't make them correct, or right. Just like if a few sources that everyone holds in high regard is feeding millions of people incorrect information, then it doesn't matter if millions of people are all in agreement, they're all still wrong.
Albert Einstein is proof of this.

And are the people you're referencing people who worked/work directly on the games engine itself? If not it's not relevant what they talk about.

That's how anything in life works. Say what you want about it but unless you're directly involved, it doesn't matter. Even as logical as something can appear to be. Because there could be something built into the game engine that is the complete opposite of how people think something is or even how something is supposed to work, which means all the logic in the world doesn't matter or how many people say it. You cannot ever make an accurate determination on research unless you have the actual source of what your researching. And in this case no one but the development team has. Despite people's logic towards that as well.

PhysX is automatically enabled because it's built into the games engine, it's not something you can turn off or on from the menu. If you're running all Nvidis chipsets, then PhysX is automatically on.

BTW Here is the game running smoothly using the following specs: i7 @ 2.8ghz L3 8MB cache, 12GB GDD3 RAM, Nvidio Geforece 560ti:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6oMagKZ-Y8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkEQOGH6nLo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOHouSRmCOg

I rest my case.

Damian....
12-20-2013, 09:00 PM
To answer my question about the specific PhysX particles/turbulence settings that were patched in in the last patch and them running very poorly you post 3 videos of you running the game without the PhysX settings even existing. I know the game is built on PhysX and can run decently enough with some settings lowered on a wide variety of hardware with the new PhysX settings disabled. That is not what I am arguing.

I am specifically talking about the particles/turbulence running poorly and Nvidia posting video proof that it runs poorly. Do you have proof that the game runs smoothly with the particles/turbulence enabled? That is what I am asking for, so far it seems the general consensus is that it is very unoptimized and does not run well even on overkill Nvidia hardware.

Questions2ask
12-20-2013, 09:25 PM
To answer my question about the specific PhysX particles/turbulence settings that were patched in in the last patch and them running very poorly you post 3 videos of you running the game without the PhysX settings even existing. I know the game is built on PhysX and can run decently enough with some settings lowered on a wide variety of hardware with the new PhysX settings disabled. That is not what I am arguing.

I am specifically talking about the particles/turbulence running poorly and Nvidia posting video proof that it runs poorly. Do you have proof that the game runs smoothly with the particles/turbulence enabled? That is what I am asking for, so far it seems the general consensus is that it is very unoptimized and does not run well even on overkill Nvidia hardware.

You should seriously leave this conversation alone, because you simply don't get it. You seem to be under the misguided concept that you can shut off/on/enable/disable PhysX when it doesn't work like that. If you're using all Nvidia hardware the instant the game is running, PhysX is automatically on and running. For example that Smoke update, is automatically on in anyone's game whom has all Nvidia hardware, the various detailing of the smoke comes from the settings in the menu, but that doesn't change the fact that it's automatically on once the update happens how high people want to make the settings is why the game lags, and has nothing to do with the PhysX.

There are however various affects such as the lighting and things that can be turned off or on, but those do not fall under PhysX. Which is where I think your confusion is coming from.

First you wanted proof of the game running smoothly with PhysX and you got that proof from 3 different videos, now you're trying to nit pick about various aspects of the PhysX making a false claim that PhysX is not on.

Damian....
12-20-2013, 09:30 PM
You have to be trolling, you are completely avoiding what I am talking about. I know the game is built on PhysX and the game can run smoothly without the turbulence/particle effects turned on. I am talking about how the game performs with the GPU Accelerated turbulence/particle effects enabled. You can set the GPU Accelerated PhysX to off/low/high FYI. The game runs poorly with this option enabled even with high end Nvidia hardware. This is proven by Nvidias own video showcasing the new effects, it runs very choppy and at a low FPS.

With the PhysX option in the graphics settings set to off the game is identical on Nvidia and AMD hardware, and the game runs OK besides being too reliant on Core0 on the CPU side of things. With the option set to low or high the game runs very poorly even on high end Nvidia hardware and on setups with a dedicated PhysX card.

x___Luffy___x
12-20-2013, 10:03 PM
You have to be trolling, you are completely avoiding what I am talking about. I know the game is built on PhysX and the game can run smoothly without the turbulence/particle effects turned on. I am talking about how the game performs with the GPU Accelerated turbulence/particle effects enabled. You can set the GPU Accelerated PhysX to off/low/high FYI. The game runs poorly with this option enabled even with high end Nvidia hardware. This is proven by Nvidias own video showcasing the new effects, it runs very choppy and at a low FPS.

With the PhysX option in the graphics settings set to off the game is identical on Nvidia and AMD hardware, and the game runs OK besides being too reliant on Core0 on the CPU side of things. With the option set to low or high the game runs very poorly even on high end Nvidia hardware and on setups with a dedicated PhysX card.

exactly true.
and ubisoft is not gonna do anything about the ****ty optimization of the game and about these physX effects. we have to wait for a patch from nvidia for it.

emwearz
12-20-2013, 11:40 PM
Just touching base on your point 2 about Hybrid PhysX not working since 2009, I use a Hybrid PhysX card and have ran every game that is Physx enabled, released up to today with it. (Batman Arkham Origins is the exception). Borderlands 2, Metro: Last Light, Rise of the Triad, The Bureau: XCOM Declassified all work with hardware accelerated Hybrid Physx.

Using programs like GPUZ show the card under load, most importantly performance shows that the cards are being used. Running PhysX off the CPU is draining as hell and lowers your FPS in big hits, the numbers don't lie. You can enable PhysX to run off the CPU, GPUZ will show 0% on the cards load, you enable Hyrbrid PhysX that jumps to 30%+ and your FPS dramatically increases as the load is taken off your CPU. Thus hardware accelerated.

You are correct in that Nvidia have gone to great lengths with their new drivers, Hyrbid PhysX users still use the old 320.49 drivers, however they still work and allow me to run games with PhysX enabled without the big loss I see when running from my CPU.

http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/22136-how-to-fix-hybrid-physx-with-latest-physx-and-geforce-285-solved.html

You should jump on and tell these people they are "sadly mistake".

EDIT: Just for the record I have no idea if AC4 works under Hybrid. The point of my post is that your comment of 'it has not worked since 2009' and that Hyrbrid users are 'sadly mistaken' is incorrect and makes you sound like the fan boy, not the other way around. As a pure fact, not an opinion on company, etc, you are incorrect in your comments about Hybrid PhysX, which you clearly know little to nothing about.

YazX_
12-21-2013, 12:49 AM
it is the same anti-steam guy!

however, there is nothing interesting in this video, it is just the same as previous one on steam hearing you talking on and on. instead of talking about these things, i would suggest you drop the way you are making your vids because they are boring and nobody actually cares of what you think , instead you should've made a comparison video when Physx is on/off in gameplay instead of steady image, that would've worked better.

Questions2ask
12-21-2013, 01:10 AM
Just touching base on your point 2 about Hybrid PhysX not working since 2009, I use a Hybrid PhysX card and have ran every game that is Physx enabled, released up to today with it. (Batman Arkham Origins is the exception). Borderlands 2, Metro: Last Light, Rise of the Triad, The Bureau: XCOM Declassified all work with hardware accelerated Hybrid Physx.

Nvidia drivers DISABLE the PHYSX if anything but Nvidia hardware is detected which makes what you're saying IMPOSSIBLE


Using programs like GPUZ show the card under load, most importantly performance shows that the cards are being used. Running PhysX off the CPU is draining as hell and lowers your FPS in big hits, the numbers don't lie. You can enable PhysX to run off the CPU, GPUZ will show 0% on the cards load, you enable Hyrbrid PhysX that jumps to 30%+ and your FPS dramatically increases as the load is taken off your CPU. Thus hardware accelerated.
None of that is relevant because Nvidia drivers DISABLE the PhysX when any non-Nvidia hardware is detected.

It's really sad to see how pathetic people are to actually try and continue trolling in topics like this telling people they're trolling when the proof is done b a simple search.



http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/22136-how-to-fix-hybrid-physx-with-latest-physx-and-geforce-285-solved.html

You should jump on and tell these people they are "sadly mistake".

EDIT: Just for the record I have no idea if AC4 works under Hybrid. The point of my post is that your comment of 'it has not worked since 2009' and that Hyrbrid users are 'sadly mistaken' is incorrect and makes you sound like the fan boy, not the other way around. As a pure fact, not an opinion on company, etc, you are incorrect in your comments about Hybrid PhysX, which you clearly know little to nothing about.
First of all I don't have to tell those people they're sadly mistaken Nvidia and tons of other people have already done it for me.
Secondly 3rd party links to things that have a bunch of people in them trying to bypass what's already been proven is really gibberish.

Try providing a link from an OFFICIAL source that backs up your claim and not a link from people you favor and have bias information in them that's already been proven incorrect.

Tons of proven Search results are fact not opinion, and It's already been PROVEN this hasn't worked since at least 2009, Problem with people is they deny blatant facts hat have already been proven. Google (Or whatever search engine you want o use) pull up this information.

It's seriously sad to see how pathetic people are to actually try and continue trolling in topics like this telling people they're trolling when the proof is done by a simple search that proves them wrong. Once again Search results PROVE what you're saying is incorrect an yet you claim people are incorrect without any proof. You pulled up one link Search results pull up tons of links that show how it doesn't work.

You can try and argue this all you want but Google and other search engines will pull up information PROVING it doesn't work not too mention that nvidia already explained this themselves.

Since you're going to try and deny facts and use false justification to continually try and get around the facts I've presented and can be backed up with search results, I'm done with this conversation because as I said in my video just like AMD users, proof can be posted and they will still try to argue against it even though there is nothing to argue. People in this thread saying proven facts are not true and wrong and use bias links to feel justified, are the same way.

Enjoy your delusional thinking.

emwearz
12-21-2013, 01:49 AM
Nvidia drivers DISABLE the PHYSX if anything but Nvidia hardware is detected which makes what you're saying IMPOSSIBLE

By simply removing the physxdevice.dll in the games folder, that check is removed. Thus it does not know it is non Nvidia hardware, it treats it as a dedicated PhysX card, much the same as you can do if you have 2 Nvidia cards. Also when running hybrid, you patch the Nvidia driver installed, it does not work by simply installing the nvidia driver.

As for an official source, Nvidia would not release publication a workaround for something they are trying to block, that makes no sense.

At the end of the day I don't have anything to prove to someone who has not even tried it themselves, I have done it and it works, I linked you to a forum of people saying it works.

Nice image of my Hybrid PhysX card under 90% load during a PhysX benchmark, as well as GPU-Z showing PhysX is enabled on the system.
http://s27.postimg.org/lhb97hwnl/idiot.jpg

You have no idea what you are talking about.


You can try and argue this all you want but Google and other search engines will pull up information PROVING it doesn't work not too mention that nvidia already explained this themselves.

Perhaps you do not know how to use google. I pulled these up. Just type in "Hybrid Physx" then the name of the game, try Borderlands 2 or Metro Last Light just to get you started.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1307142/borderlands-2-with-hybrid-physx/120
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2940443
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7L5XAFMhoU

Page after page, video after video.

strigoi1958
12-21-2013, 02:42 AM
I turned on the smoke and although it gives the game a little more realism it kind of gets in the way as you cannot see enemies although they still see you. Also the sea mist is thicker... again it's more realistic but zooming in with the telescope it wouldn't identify a ship but it's still a nice option for all who want it :D

http://youtu.be/7QjQNiJQyR8 sorry I haven't figured out how to upload in HD to youtube yet but the game runs very well at 1920 x 1080

RaulO4
12-21-2013, 05:21 AM
phyaicX is not auto on in AC4, i had to put it on and on low it drop my frames down to 30 fps, so i leave it off which turn off the physic base smoke

Sdwakias
12-21-2013, 09:16 AM
You have to be trolling, you are completely avoiding what I am talking about. I know the game is built on PhysX and the game can run smoothly without the turbulence/particle effects turned on. I am talking about how the game performs with the GPU Accelerated turbulence/particle effects enabled. You can set the GPU Accelerated PhysX to off/low/high FYI. The game runs poorly with this option enabled even with high end Nvidia hardware. This is proven by Nvidias own video showcasing the new effects, it runs very choppy and at a low FPS.

With the PhysX option in the graphics settings set to off the game is identical on Nvidia and AMD hardware, and the game runs OK besides being too reliant on Core0 on the CPU side of things. With the option set to low or high the game runs very poorly even on high end Nvidia hardware and on setups with a dedicated PhysX card.

Why are you trying so hard? None of the Nvidia's videos show that the game runs very choppy and at a low FPS while having GPU Accelerated turbulence/particle enabled. Your eyes are the serious problem here. May I suggest a pair of glasses?

seville57
12-21-2013, 09:51 AM
A look at the backside of the gamebox it reads: havok (Physics, when the game was released), not PhysX.

You can read more about it here: http://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CEsQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.havok.com%2F&ei=D1i1UpHSN-baygP4o4CIAw&usg=AFQjCNFykf0DjaA6wnbX84tB-8H5jP-6-w&sig2=yYBU4-NVgEUqRoYxvpTlrQ

Edit: Nvidia disabled their drivers to work with amd graphic cards with Nvidia graphic driver 186.

But I read somehere you can use "hacked Nvidia (PhysX)" drivers to work with amd graphic cards.

strigoi1958
12-21-2013, 02:24 PM
http://youtu.be/XNa2a5YnEI4 this is physx particles on low.... gtx 670 2gb the game seem to run ok for me but smoke on high is too much smoke to see (but I am using a blunderbuss ;)).

did anyone turn on the captions in the op video ? they are so funny.... it must have been some kind of voice recognition that couldn't make out some of the words.

@ questions2ask Everyone is entitled to an opinion but by stating yours is fact and to prove it telling people to search google.... doesn't make it fact. Especially when others find alternative answers on google that you dismiss as not fact from untrustworthy sources because they differ from your opinion.
I appreciate everyone who takes time to post videos, tips, helpful answers and general banter, but perhaps if you present your opinion in a different way you may get a different response.