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View Full Version : Did any Fw 190D-11/12/13 see combat?



faustnik
06-30-2004, 11:16 AM
I've seen some evidence of D-13s listed in inventories but, can't find a combat report on any of these.

Any info would be appreciated! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thanks,

faust

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faustnik
06-30-2004, 11:16 AM
I've seen some evidence of D-13s listed in inventories but, can't find a combat report on any of these.

Any info would be appreciated! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thanks,

faust

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moksha
06-30-2004, 11:36 AM
Red 4 with the Wuerger Staffel of JV44 was a D11 flown on combat missions. (One fo its pilots=Karl-Heinz Hoffman?)


ref:
http://www.stormbirds.net/experten/products2addendum2.htm

and this bit on another D11
This particular Dora displays the colorful and distinctive Papagei Staffel unit and personal markings that makes it such an attractive modeling subject. However, its true historical significance is that this aircraft is an example of one of the only seven Fw 190 D-11 variants built, and, one of the two used operationally by the Luftwaffe. The second subject aircraft is Schwarze (Black) 4 of 6. Staffel, II./JG 6, which surrendered to U.S. forces at Fürth, near Nürnberg on May 8,1945.
S!
quoted from same site.

[This message was edited by moksha on Wed June 30 2004 at 10:46 AM.]

faustnik
06-30-2004, 11:47 AM
Thanks! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Fw-190D-9
06-30-2004, 11:47 AM
For the late variants of the Dora, no one really knows how many were really built, and there are not many actual combat accounts. But I would have to say that yes the late war Doras did see action.

An excelent book is Focke Wulf FW 190 "Long Nose' by Dietmar Hermann. It has afew indescripancies, such as getting the armament of the D-12 and D-13 mixed up from time to time, but IMOP its the best single source of information on the late Dora variants, especialy if your interested in the D-9 most of all.

Now out of the three you listed, the D-11, D-12, and D-13. I would only add the D-11 and D-13. Why not the D-12? Well, the armament of the D-12 consisted of one MK 108 30mm cannon that fired throught the prop hub and two MG151 20mm cannons at the wing roots. But unfortunatly,( or fortunatly, depends on how you look at it.) The factory that built the Mk 108 cannons was hit on a bombing raid, so Focke Wulf decided to replace the Mk 108 30mm cannon with another MG151 20mm cannon.

Personaly I would love to see all three variants of the late war Dora in FB. But I would settle with haveing the D-11 and D-13. Granted many people will still probibly say that there is not enouph recorded combat information. While that is true, the book I stated does have alot of preformance figures for the late war variants, and I am sure, with alittle scrounging that information can be improved

faustnik
06-30-2004, 12:08 PM
D-9,

I have Hermann's series of 190 books. I can't really find any answers in "Long Nose" about the later series, just more questions. Production schedules are listed but, not actual numbers produced and distributed. There certainly is plenty of data in that book on the Dora versions and the A8.

I'm interested in the D-11 but, I don't think it would get much use in FB online, too uber. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Fw-190D-9
06-30-2004, 12:11 PM
Like I said there isn't much information on the Doras, one reason why I am so interested in them. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As for the D-11, I want it in the game. But I never said that people would not complain. I mean, what FW-190 pilot wouldn't want to fly a 190 that had two MG151 20mm cannons and two Mk 108 30mm cannons? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BlakJakOfSpades
06-30-2004, 12:56 PM
not really sure that this is entirely accurate, but this article on the internet, yes that right the internet which i know isn't always totally accurate says "The D-13 differed from the D-12 by having a Jumo 213EB engine and by having a 20-mm engine-mounted MG 151 cannon in place of the 30-mm MK 108 unit. However, only a couple of prototypes were built." http://www.simviation.com/gryphon/cfs1/Fw190d9-info.htm , thats where i got it from. now heck, maybe they used the prototypes in combat i dont know, i thought id add some useful info to my post because all i really wanted to say was down at the museum of flight in seattle they have a d-13, whether its real or a mockup i dont know, but its sure sexy. i really love the dora, although the proportions look a little goofy, its a great plane. it's even greater to stand next to one (or least a mockup of one) u really gotta admire that german precision, well i got nothing useful to say, so im out, later

Fw-190D-9
06-30-2004, 01:46 PM
Well BlakJak, your right about what the D-13 carried. As for comfirmed D-13s that were built, no one really is sure how many were built, that seems to be the caser with all of the Luftwaffe's fighters, especialy the later types. Mostly just the prototypes are recorded.

As for a real D-13, the Champline airmeuseaum in Arizona is the only place that I know of that has a true Fw-190 D-13, in the United States.

And the Aiforce Meuseaum in dayton Ohio is the only place that I know fo that has a Fw-190 D-9 in the United States.

NN_EnigmuS
06-30-2004, 01:47 PM
ve check my doc here what i found from docavia n15
-Fw190D10:just one prototype werk Nr0045 V23 so no way to make it for the game
-fw190D11:a FwD9 with jumo213F and with 2*mg151/20:2*mk108.In december 1944,Fw product it but was stop mi-january by the apparition of FwD12/13
-Fw190D12:with jumo213F,Mw50,1*mk108 in the noise and two 2*mg151/20 like the tA152.he had 4 fuel tanks in wings with 315l on them.
-Fw190D13:same but with mg151/20 E in the noise was built in late march 1945 at low frequency


here the post i made for Fwd11/12/13 inclusion but lot of people were not for it lol

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=901102683&p=1

feel free to bump it hehe,there is data,cokpit D13 photos...

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Fw-190D-9
06-30-2004, 01:53 PM
The D-10 was an interesting plane on paper. It was basicaly a D-9 with hte machine guns removed and a MG151 20mm cannon put in place where the machine guns were.

NegativeGee
06-30-2004, 02:15 PM
According to Focke Wulf-190 by Malcomb V Lowe from Ospreys Production line to Frontline series, the following late D's were assembled, according to assigned Werk Nummern.

D-11: 220001 to circa 220013 at least. Production/conversion at Langenhagen and Cottbus.

D-12: Production by both Fielser and Arado, WN's unidentified.

D-13: 836001 to 836030 at least. Prduction/conversion at Arbeits-Geminschaft Roland Leipzig, possibly other locations as well. This took place March 1945 onwards. According to the history in Forgotten Battles object viewer, some of these aircraft were assigned to a squadron giving top cover to JV 44.

Another note on the D-11. The Luftwaffe Album by Joachim Dressel and Manfred Griehl features a photo of a plane they identify as a D-11 that was captured at Bad Worrishofen. The WN for this plane is listed as being 350158 'VI+QM'. If correct, this would represent a converted A-8 airframe that was originally assembled by Focke-Wulf at Aslau.

Anyway, hope this is of interest http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

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p1ngu666
06-30-2004, 02:38 PM
hmm, so the 2x mk108 are in wing like A8/9? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
id be happy to have D11,12,13 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
aslong as we get late war allied uber planes

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NN_EnigmuS
06-30-2004, 03:13 PM
yep p1ngu666 and there are short one like the real Fw190A8/a9 Mk108 cannons lol

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NN_EnigmuS
06-30-2004, 03:16 PM
for uber late war allied plane just take some yak9ut or yak3 1945 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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p1ngu666
06-30-2004, 03:44 PM
p47M, p51H (or brit ones) field modded p47 also, and uber spits, typhoons etc http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
oh and LA9 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
got a poster of that on me wall http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Fw-190D-9
06-30-2004, 04:45 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing a Spitfire MK XII (yes I know they were only used in the UK), or a MK XIVc or e. Or a Tempest, or the P-47M.


But sorry to my memory the P-51H never saw combat.

faustnik
06-30-2004, 04:55 PM
Seeing those Tempest shots for so long really made me want to fight that planes. The model looked amazing!

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Willey
06-30-2004, 06:09 PM
I want Ta-152C + wing cannons then http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

1 108 in the nose
2 151/20s in the cowling
2 151/20s in the inner wings
2 108s in the outer wings

That must be enough http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

Or 262A-1a/U1 with 2 151/20s, 2 108s and 2 103s http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

Let them have their 47Ms... we'll blast them into pieces before they can do anything about it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

WUAF_Badsight
06-30-2004, 10:57 PM
sorry but this is OT

i just read that the H Mustang never saw combat

is that true ?

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
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wayno7777
06-30-2004, 11:10 PM
Not in the ETO, anyway.

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Fw-190D-9
06-30-2004, 11:30 PM
Nope the P-51H never saw any combat, and it was never sold to any foreign nation. 370 were built for the USAAF before VJ-day, but not a single one made it to any combat units before the end of the fighting.

dadada1
07-01-2004, 02:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fw-190D-9:
For the late variants of the Dora, no one really knows how many were really built, and there are not many actual combat accounts. But I would have to say that yes the late war Doras did see action.

An excellent book is Focke Wulf FW 190 "Long Nose' by Dietmar Hermann. It has afew indescripancies, such as getting the armament of the D-12 and D-13 mixed up from time to time, but IMOP its the best single source of information on the late Dora variants, especialy if your interested in the D-9 most of all.

Now out of the three you listed, the D-11, D-12, and D-13. I would only add the D-11 and D-13. Why not the D-12? Well, the armament of the D-12 consisted of one MK 108 30mm cannon that fired throught the prop hub and two MG151 20mm cannons at the wing roots. But unfortunatly,( or fortunatly, depends on how you look at it.) The factory that built the Mk 108 cannons was hit on a bombing raid, so Focke Wulf decided to replace the Mk 108 30mm cannon with another MG151 20mm cannon.

Personaly I would love to see all three variants of the late war Dora in FB. But I would settle with haveing the D-11 and D-13. Granted many people will still probibly say that there is not enouph recorded combat information. While that is true, the book I stated does have alot of preformance figures for the late war variants, and I am sure, with alittle scrounging that information can be improved<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a good source for the late 190 series from a reliable author (unlike internet sites) even though it does have a few inconsistancies. Another good source is the Jerry Cradnell book on the JV 44 protection flight "Doras of the Galland Circus" which has good photos of D9's and a D11 that was in service with that squadron.

In the second part of "JG 26 War Diary" it mentions the fact that that they took delivery of 2 FW 190D 13s, one of those being alocated to the then Kommodore, Frans Gotz. This is the very fighter in the Champlin Museum. It also states in the book who the other D13 was allocated to but can't remember off the top of my head.

I'd love to see D11 and D13 in game and I believe that most of the information required exists in the Harmann book, perhaps if someone were brave enough to model them they would be included. I live in hope. As for late war allied, yeah bring them on, we need challenges in this game.

[This message was edited by dadada1 on Thu July 01 2004 at 02:31 AM.]

Fw-190D-9
07-01-2004, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dadada1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fw-190D-9:
For the late variants of the Dora, no one really knows how many were really built, and there are not many actual combat accounts. But I would have to say that yes the late war Doras did see action.

An excellent book is Focke Wulf FW 190 "Long Nose' by Dietmar Hermann. It has afew indescripancies, such as getting the armament of the D-12 and D-13 mixed up from time to time, but IMOP its the best single source of information on the late Dora variants, especialy if your interested in the D-9 most of all.

Now out of the three you listed, the D-11, D-12, and D-13. I would only add the D-11 and D-13. Why not the D-12? Well, the armament of the D-12 consisted of one MK 108 30mm cannon that fired throught the prop hub and two MG151 20mm cannons at the wing roots. But unfortunatly,( or fortunatly, depends on how you look at it.) The factory that built the Mk 108 cannons was hit on a bombing raid, so Focke Wulf decided to replace the Mk 108 30mm cannon with another MG151 20mm cannon.

Personaly I would love to see all three variants of the late war Dora in FB. But I would settle with haveing the D-11 and D-13. Granted many people will still probibly say that there is not enouph recorded combat information. While that is true, the book I stated does have alot of preformance figures for the late war variants, and I am sure, with alittle scrounging that information can be improved<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a good source for the late 190 series from a reliable author (unlike internet sites) even though it does have a few inconsistancies. Another good source is the Jerry Cradnell book on the JV 44 protection flight "Doras of the Galland Circus" which has good photos of D9's and a D11 that was in service with that squadron.

In the second part of "JG 26 War Diary" it mentions the fact that that they took delivery of 2 FW 190D 13s, one of those being alocated to the then Kommodore, Frans Gotz. This is the very fighter in the Champlin Museum. It also states in the book who the other D13 was allocated to but can't remember off the top of my head.

I'd love to see D11 and D13 in game and I believe that most of the information required exists in the Harmann book, perhaps if someone were brave enough to model them they would be included. I live in hope. As for late war allied, yeah bring them on, we need challenges in this game.

[This message was edited by dadada1 on Thu July 01 2004 at 02:31 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree.

DangerForward
07-01-2004, 04:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fw-190D-9:
For the late variants of the Dora, no one really knows how many were really built, and there are not many actual combat accounts. But I would have to say that yes the late war Doras did see action.

An excelent book is Focke Wulf FW 190 "Long Nose' by Dietmar Hermann. It has afew indescripancies, such as getting the armament of the D-12 and D-13 mixed up from time to time, but IMOP its the best single source of information on the late Dora variants, especialy if your interested in the D-9 most of all.

Now out of the three you listed, the D-11, D-12, and D-13. I would only add the D-11 and D-13. Why not the D-12? Well, the armament of the D-12 consisted of one MK 108 30mm cannon that fired throught the prop hub and two MG151 20mm cannons at the wing roots. But unfortunatly,( or fortunatly, depends on how you look at it.) The factory that built the Mk 108 cannons was hit on a bombing raid, so Focke Wulf decided to replace the Mk 108 30mm cannon with another MG151 20mm cannon.

Personaly I would love to see all three variants of the late war Dora in FB. But I would settle with haveing the D-11 and D-13. Granted many people will still probibly say that there is not enouph recorded combat information. While that is true, the book I stated does have alot of preformance figures for the late war variants, and I am sure, with alittle scrounging that information can be improved<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a fairly recent Osprey book on 190 production, "Focke-Wulf 190 Production Line to Frontline" that's interesting too. The book seems to imply several of each of these types was used.

I guess you'd have to find the log book of Franz Gotz to see about the D13 in combat. The Champlain D13 is supposed to be his.

DangerForward

dadada1
07-07-2004, 03:48 AM
I was refering to my copy of The War Diary of JG 26 part 2 and the other D13 that definately saw service was allocated to 43 victory Ace, Maj Karl Borris who'd been with the squadron since 1940. I very much doubt thet anyone has any info on the fate of his D13 though.