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View Full Version : My Somewhat In Depth Ideas for Future AC Games



BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-03-2013, 04:52 AM
Now, I understand there have been a SLEW of "ideas for AC5" and "future AC" games and I've contributed to a lot of them but I felt that I needed to consolidate all my ideas into one (REALLY LONG) post. You are welcome to join in the debate and I urge everyone to seek out the other threads for a bunch of great ideas and debates as well. I've had ideas about AC for a looong time and these are by no means necessarily original ideas and I'm sure at least one other person has thought of one item from this list at least...and most probably already have quite a following. With that said... here we go! If you have the patience to read through it, tell me what you think -- which ideas you like, which are dumb and why I suck, whatever! Or don't. It's your prerogative.

Basic Mechanics

Parkour

Find a decent blend of old and new mechanics. Keep the fluidity of the new mechanics but have us do more. In the old games we used to have to do a leap and grip move to get to higher ledges but now it's done automatically which just makes it feel more automated. Bring back the manual leap and grip move. Also, make it so climbing a building is only instigated when you hold A... holding A shouldn't be the sprint button (that should be controlled by how much you press on the thumbstick) but rather a button that tells the game that, yes, you would like to climb so avoid the accidental wallruns.
Keep vaulting because it's great.
Make sure the game world is fun for parkour. This was one of the biggest failings of AC3 -- the cities were just not that fun to climb and jump around. They were TOO accurate to the time. Keep intentional historical inaccuracies so as to not dampen the fun. The AC games have often had intentional inaccuracies with buildings that weren't built yet because they're fun to climb or free run around OR lots of things that don't make sense to be hanging off the sides of buildings and in AC3, they seemed to forget that. There were no random large towers as viewpoints, the streets were wide and more sparse and less dense than before and it all seemed like things that would have been there. While it's cool to see that accuracy, it also made the parkour not as fun.


Blending: Return to AC3's more dynamic blending here a small little dot appears over you and those you're blending with instead of the black/white of the Ezio trilogy (I believe AC4 went back to the Ezio trilogy style of blending). Give us the dynamic blending as well and expand

Benches
Any group of people should be possible to blend with... instead of having "groups" of people you can blend with, as long as you're in between a few people, you're good and hidden. Certain instances will prevent you from blending but for the most part, this is how it should work.

One thing I always found odd was how if you're being chased in AC, crowds of people will disperse and the ability to blend with them dissipates even if you're in a crowd of people... this should be changed because we see it all the time in movies...someone will chase someone else down into a crowded street or subway or something and the crowds make the person disappear. I've found that this occasionally occurs but is not really predictable in any way. Now sometimes, crowds won't allow you to blend and I'll explain later.


Other stationary blends like in AC3 where you might sit on a ledge with others who are fishing, stand against a wall with your arms crossed, etc.
Basically...make the player character do whatever the crowd he's blending with is doing. So if they begin to clap for a person playing an instrument, the player should as well. If they begin cheering at a gallows pole or because they're listening to a speaker -- the player should as well. Etc, etc.


Don't rely on naval combat. If it doesn't fit the time period but the time period is interesting don't scrap the time period in order for something that has sailing. Also don't try and shoehorn a sailing mechanic into an AC game if it doesn't fit. For instance... I don't think sailing and having naval battles would really fit into a Feudal Japan game... is that a reason not to make the game? No. Does it mean you have to try and fit it into the game? NO!
Random Encounters: The game world needs more to do. Something the AC series has always struggled with is keeping meaningful things to do after completing the main missions and side missions. Spiderman 2 had a bunch of random encounters such as a robbery, catching a mugger and returning the purse, catching a getaway car, fighting thugs, angry drivers, catching a child's balloon before it floats away, etc. To that end, AC should allow you to become a vigilante of sorts.

Catch a pick pocket and take your money back
Defend yourself from a gang ambush
Defend yourself from a Templar who attempts to stab you from behind
Protect civilians from corrupt guards
Catch a mugger and return the purse to a civilian
Beat up or frighten (by grabbing) unfaithful spouses
Protect civilians from gang attacks
Carry injured civilians to a doctor
Bar fights (getting drunk should also return because it's a neat little effect) -- similar to the fights you get in before unlocking the new places to drink at only this time, like pretty much everything else, it will randomly happen at the bars indefinitely...it's not like you'll never get into another bar brawl again once you finish it once or finish a certain number.
Defending a Den/Acquiring a Den
etc.


Factions: Factions should once again return and provide side missions for you to complete. Each faction has a set number of structured side missions which are always the same during every playthrough but after finishing those, they all have missions that are randomly generated so as to never let you run out of things to do.

Thieves Guild: The Thieves can be used as a means of distracting guards by luring them away. They're mediocre at fighting but best at luring guards FAR from where you want to be. They will follow you up on roofs.

Thief Assignments


Prostitutes: Can be used as a mobile blend area that you control (unlike crowds of civilians which do their own thing) and can distract guards to let you slip by but won't take them COMPLETELY away and the distraction only lasts a while meaning you must be swift. They will scatter if a fight starts however. They will not follow you up onto roofs.

Prostitute Assignments


Mercs: Can't be used to distract enemies or hide you but are the best at assisting you during conflicts as they deal the most damage and can take the most damage. They will not follow you up on roofs unless there's a ladder nearby.

Merc Assignments


Assassin Brotherhood: Unlike the other groups, Assassins have various functions. They can be a mobile blend area like Prostitutes though they won't distract guards. They are about as good at fighting as Mercs but have less health. They can also be used to assassinate guards by locking onto the guards and signalling for them to assassinate the guard. I believe they should replace the "Assassin Signal" system from past AC games and replace them with the groups outside Dens as a way to make Dens more meaningful and to make it less of a win option by not allowing you to use it and magically have an Assassin pop out of a haystack as if they were just waiting there all day for no reason.

Assassination Contracts: I will use this as the example and it's easiest to explain I think but the other faction missions all follow the same formula. So, the game will come with a set number of Assassination Contracts each with their own little story of who you're killing and why. These can be replayed at any time via the DNA menu. However, once you complete all the established Contracts, instead of just not having anything left for you to do...you can always go to a Pigeon Coup to get a randomly generated Contract. It will give you a waypoint to follow and a random target. The area around the target will be a Restricted area as well. You can also abort the Contract but keep in mind, since it's no longer a set Contract, the next time you visit a Coup, the Contract will probably be a completely different one.



Dens: The Templar/Assassin Den system from Revelations should return but with some significant changes. They should cut out the Den Defense mini-game however. Also unlike ACR, Dens could never be locked permanently in order to allow them to be attacked once in awhile as something to do post-game.

Acquiring a Den: This should be kept similar to ACR -- find the Den leader, assassinate him, light the signal fire on the tower, done! If you miss your target and he escapes, you try again the next day or a following day.
Defending a Den: Here's where it should change. As opposed to having an odd, out of place RTS-esque sequence where you set up Assassins and barricades, you simply return to the Den that's under attack and start the Den Defense. Instead of what ACR did, the game would keep the basic gameplay intact and instead allow you to run around and fight off Templars alongside your fellow Assassins. Each side has a set number of people; if you manage to kill all of the Templars, the Templars retreat and you successfully defended your Den. If all of your Assassins are killed by the Templars, you will be forced to retreat while being chased by Templars until you get out of that area of the city.

Templar Den: When a Den is acquired by the Templars (all dens also begin as Templar Dens) they replace the normal city guards with Templar guards who will actively search for you and this will force your Notoriety to be up completely around the Den and also lowers your Influence around the Den.
Assassin Den: When a Den is under Assassin control, a group of Assassins for you to take with you will be available and the guards will be normal city guards who will only react to you if you break the law unless you build your Notoriety up yourself and your Influence around the den will be increased.



Notoriety and Influence: Both systems are tied to different sections of the city meaning you could have a high or low Notoriety in one part of the city and the opposite in another area of the city, similar to Revelations.

Notoriety: This system should return but with some significant changes. I think it'd be cool and would promote stealth if your notoriety does not go up if you're not caught doing anything illegal. For instance, stealthily assassinating guards would not raise your Notoriety but getting into a fight with multiple guards would. There would of course be various ways of bringing Notoriety down as well.

Low Notoriety: Ideally, this is what you'd want to be in. Guards will not actively search for you and will only react if you're caught doing an illegal act (such as killing, trespassing, or on a roof)
High Notoriety: This makes moving throughout the city more difficult as any guard will immediately become suspicious of you on sight, regardless of what you're doing. These two elements are essentially the same as they've always been.


Influence: This is a new system that I think would be interesting to implement. Basically, it's a Notoriety system in regards to the civilian population and what they think of you. It's not strictly tied to Notoriety meaning guards might be on the lookout for you but civilian will still love you. Sometimes the two systems overlap but for the most part, they're separate. Various actions will either raise or lower your Influence and having a high or low Influence comes with various benefits and consequences, respectively.

Low Influence: Unlike Notoriety, you actually DON'T want a low Influence as it means the public opinion of you is bad. The people dislike you and this will cause issues when faced with hassles.

Civilians will block your path and push you toward pursuers
Civilians will throw rocks at you to knock you down while climbing
Civilians will disperse and not allow you to blend with them by calling to the guards for help


High Influence: This is the ideal place you want to be at and it means the people like you and will actively help you.

Civilians will block the path of your pursuers and wrestle with them to help
Civilians will throw rocks at the pursuing guards when they try and chase you onto the roofs
Civilians will allow you to blend in with them.



Actions: Various actions will either raise or lower your Notoriety or Influence, some will affect both and may raise/lower both or may raise one and lower the other. Different actions will result in a more significant amount raised or lowered -- not all actions account for the same amount of Notoriety or Influence.

Killing a guard or civilian for no reason: Raises Notoriety; Lowers Influence
Being caught in a restricted area: Raises Notoriety
Caught on a rooftop: Raises Notoriety
Protecting civilians from corrupt guards: Raises Notoriety; Raises Influence
Pickpocketing civilians: Raises Notoriety; Lowers Influence
Throwing money: Raises Influence
Stopping thieves and returning the money: Raises Influence
Helping civilians get to Doctors: Raises Influence
Defending civilians from a gang attack: Raises Influence
Punching/beating up civilians: Lowers Influence
Tearing down Wanted Posters: Lowers Notoriety; Raises Influence
Bribing speakers: Raises Notoriety (unlike past games due to the fact that the guards would realize he's been bribed); Raises Influence (unlike Notoriety, Influence will be raised because civilians are the ones listening to the speakers)
Acquiring a Den: Lowers Notoriety; Raises Influence
Losing a Den: Raises Notoriety; Lowers Influence



Fast Walk, Pushing, and Pick Pocketing

Keep the fast walk from AC3 (and possibly AC4?). Instead of the old AC games where the "push past people" and "fast walk" were separate, it makes sense for the fast walk to also BE the "gentle push" button. Again, like AC3, make it so B is now the pick pocket button instead. I don't really care if pick pocketing is slow like AC1 or AC3 (AC4?) or instant like AC2, ACB, and ACR as long as it's separate from the fast walk. It's much more fluid to have the fast walk and gentle push be the same action -- a fast walk would indicate you want to get somewhere quick and a gentle push adds to the intent whereas a brisk pace doesn't necessarily equate to wanting to pickpocket someone. That was a good improvement in AC3 that I hope they keep.


Keep the cover system where you can peer around a corner, lure an enemy to you, and then perform an abduction move in either a lethal or non-lethal fashion but let us carry the body afterward to hide it better if we want. Splinter Cell: Blacklist, like AC and previous SC's has the ability to pull enemies off of ledges but it also introduced a non-lethal version where you pull the guy's face into the railing or ground to knock them out and I think that would be a good way of letting us take enemies out while on a ledge without causing a scene in the streets by having the body fall. Speaking of which...
When a body falls off a rooftop...it should cause people to panic and run away. Nearby guards should walk over and then investigate by climbing up, that way there's the risk of being found.
The next game should let us pull the hood on and off whenever we wish. Open up the equipment menu and one slot will be the hood and we can select that to either pull the hood up or down. We could also hot-key the option to the D-Pad so we can do it on the fly. Many fans have asked for this for a long time and it would benefit those that dislike when the character takes his hood off as well as those who dislike the hood in the first place.
Day/Night Cycle: The day/night cycle is pretty strange. It's almost entirely cosmetic and aesthetic. In fact, memories will alter the time of day to a preset time so it's literally just during free roam. I think it'd be interesting if there were some changes. I'm not entirely certain what those changes could be but perhaps during night time, the density of civilians goes down, giving you less people to blend with. However perhaps it takes longer for guards to register you as a threat (the classic yellow to red indicator takes longer to fill up at the same distances as it does during the day). Perhaps some stores close as well but I haven't thought this completely out. I just know that in full fledged RPGs such as Fallout or Elder Scrolls, the day/night cycle actually has pros and cons.
No more psychic guards: I believe I read on here that AC4 got rid of the silly thing where if you were being chased by guards, any guards you passed would somehow know you were being chased and would be ready to stop you. I think this should only occur when your pursuers actually pass or get near said guards. It makes no sense for them to somehow, magically, know you're being chased by the guards. If this is true and AC4 has ditched that -- great! Keep it! If not, then FIX IT. It was at its worst in AC3 where the groups of enemies were larger causing more enemies than ever to magically know you're being chased to spring up and because the blending system still isn't quite where I want it to be... it's BAD.
New Moves/Abilities: Most of these deal with stealth mechanics, something the series needs to bring in more of. It can do with some inspiration from other stealth games such as Splinter Cell (I ain't talking about light and shadow though!) and more!

Cover system: As of AC3 and AC4, the series has introduced a basic cover system where we can lure guards over and take them out silently. This is good but I think it could be updated significantly. The game's cover system is currently limited to only THIS. (http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/120604_04pm_AC3_SC_SP_30_SD_Boston_SneakAttack_Con textualCover.jpg) Now imagine if the alley with the guard had a a waist high wall in front of it? It'd be impossible to do any abduction/corner takedowns. Unless... they updated the system to allow us to go into cover more like THIS (http://www.itfgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Uncharted_3_PS3_Drakes_Deception_stealth_action.jp g), then we'd have more ways to tackle situations. I would want to be able to get into position on the wall and then move to the right or whatever to in front of the waist-high cover with the character seamlessly sliding in and remaining hidden. AC really needs to enhance the stealth. One can notice by looking at the original trailer for the first game that Altair remains hidden until he kills his target and then the trailer ends with him being chased before disappearing into a crowd. STEALTH. Later trailers, while awesome in their own right...have shown more combat emphasis. Social stealth needs to return but I think AC needs a variety of stealth types. We've had missions since like, the second game where it was more of a traditional stealth affair and a cover system would have benefited those missions immensely. Assassins should be able to have all sorts of abilities: being able to blend in with a crowd to infiltrate a public area without calling attention, hide behind cover to avoid being seen in restricted areas where civilians aren't allowed (and thus having no social stealth aspect), and combat when things get nasty (or if the player prefers the more combat intensive route.)
Thowable Items: What do I mean by this? Well, currently the only "distraction" we can use is the whistle (which leads guards TO your position) and throwing bodies off roofs. I think it'd be cool if we could throw objects and have guards go and investigate at the place we threw the object. That way. we can slip in somewhere undetected OR can lure them away from their post without having them come toward us. Perhaps we could purchase items that we can throw for distractions but perhaps one or two items could be found around areas for us to utilize. Again...distraction and deception is key to assassination so it'd be nice to have more options in that regard. In SC and Hitman, you've been able to throw a wide range of items as a distraction. In recent times, Splinter Cell has ditched the concept unfortunately but even the newest installment has a "Noisemaker" which serves the same purpose more or less. I think AC could do with this... I believe it was experimented with in ACR with all of the various bombs but the concept was complicated and wonky and just felt tacked on. Rather than a lengthy bomb crafting system, it should just be logical items you can throw -- a liquor bottle, a rock, a box, or whatever little metal object you can purchase to take on missions.
Silent kills: I saw someone on the forums, possibly IN this very thread, mention how in the games, if you quickly kill someone, even in Low Profile, once the body drops, any guard nearby will investigate it. They then said it'd be really cool if holding the assassination button down would initiate a "silent drop" where the character slowly drops the body to the floor. This is brilliant and once again, gives us choices and even gives benefits AND consequences. The benefits to a standard Low Profile assassination is that it's quick and you can keep moving especially with the way I want the social stealth revamped allowing you to quickly assassinate someone, even in a crowd, and the crowd won't even realize someone's been murdered until a bit later, allowing you to have already moved away from the scene. It's quick but it will alert people. The silent drop is useful in that guards won't hear the body drop and thus, will stay at their posts instead of coming to investigate but the downside is that it's slower and thus can be dangerous as it makes you exposed for longer.
Fake Surrender: One thing that I think would be cool to include is a mechanic from Hitman Absolution. In that game, if you're caught by a guard, you're able to fake a surrender and let the guard approach you and then take him out. This would be cool when caught in a restricted area or on a rooftop. Be careful though as once you take the guy out, any other guards who see will immediately attack. That makes it useful when caught by a single guard but less effective when caught by multiple guards. Again, this plays into social stealth and allows us to act the role of a misguided civilian; you fake a surrender as if you didn't mean to do anything and then wait for the guard to approach before taking him out, hopefully before anyone else notices.
Reverse Blending: Like I mentioned earlier...I want to be able to enter into a large crowd and immediately start blending with them even while being pursued by enemies and make my pursuers start wading through civilians, pushing them out of the way as they look for me. Once I exit a group and am no longer blending...any pursuing guards inside the group still won't see me. Why? Think of it this way... guards out in the open can't see me while I'm in a crowd, blending, because there are people hiding me. The flip side is once a guard wades into a crowd to find me, if I slip out, they won't see me because of all the people. Of course once they get out of the group and I'm still there, they will of course resume the chase. That means crowd are a great way to escape a chase and a great way to cloud your pursuer's vision even after you've exited the group. This is the kind of advancement social stealth needs and has needed for a long while now. After AC2 which upgraded social stealth to letting us blend with anyone...there really hasn't been much of an improvement...AC3 being the last with letting us blend with any 2 people instead of needing groups of 4. I think this would be amazing. Let me know if you don't get it and I'll sketch up a visual diagram of what I mean.





Customization

Outfits: Okay, I like how AC4 had a bunch of different types and styles of outfits. You have the default robes and its variants, you have a British politician coat and its variants, you have a hunting outfit and its variants, you have previous Assassin robes, and you have assorted Pirate outfits. I like having this variety but at the same time...they didn't let us customize our outfits as much. That's why they should bring back the dye system as well and instead of having the default robes and then something akin to the "Pirate Captain Outfit" as it's own separate outfit, give us the default robes only and let us dye the robes what we want.
Dyes: Like I said right above, bring back the multitude of dyes to allow us to customize at least our default robes. Even better if we could dye any of the outfits what we want. That way we not only get to pick an outfit but can also change the coloring to suit our taste. Assassin White, Black/Ebony, Red and Gold, White and Teal, Light Gray, Dark Gray, Amber, Mahogany, Orange, Green, whatever. The issue with AC4 is that the default robes (and indeed each type of outfit) had a handful of variants meaning you were stuck with them. For instance, you could wear the default robes, an all black "Privateer" variant, a mostly black with red and white "Pirate Captain" variant, a brown and orange and yellow "Merchant" variant, a dark blue and red "Haytham" variant, and a white and red and black "Explorer" variant. You couldn't wear red, green, light blue, gray, or indeed the classic "Assassin White" (white and red accents) for the default robes and were stuck with the few color combinations. I think the next AC game needs a dye system that is at least like AC2/ACB/ACR but I think it could go further and let us dye different parts of the outfit...and each outfit should have these options INCLUDING Uplay outfits and outfits like Altair/Ezio robes.

Primary Color: This is the color that is the most prevalent. In past games, white was the primary color.
Secondary Color: This is a secondary color and is the next most prevalent. In past games, red was usually the secondary color and blue was also used as a secondary color.
Sash: This is the color that the sash/belt is colored.
Accents: This is the color used for accents such as trimming. In AC4 for instance, the coattails of the Explorer outfit are white with black as a secondary color and red as the trimming. That trimming would be considered "accents." Another example are the little designs on the default robes in Revelations.. they were silver by default with the original Grey robes but were black with the Masyaf White dye.


Outfit Parts: In addition to full sets of outfits such as default robes, governor robes, etc., the game should, for the first time, allow us to have even more customization.

Hood: We'd be able to choose between different types of hoods

Standard Hood: A hood similar to Edward's that is just a basic hood.
Assassin "Closed" Hood: A hood similar to Altair's that is tight around the head with a small oval-shaped opening and the classic beak.
Assassin "Opened" Hood: A hood similar to Ezio or Connor's that is beaked and is more open.


Armor: We should be able to add different types and styles of armor and we should be able to unequip it at any time... Seriously Ubisoft...we weren't kidding about removing armor. We've been serious about it since '09.

Chest armor
Spaulders
Gloves/Gauntlets
Boots/Greaves



Let us unequip and equip weapons we dislike and like, respectively. For instance... some people disliked having the crossbow or blowpipe on their backs in the AC games, why not let them unequip it? If they want to go without it and don't mind not having the ability to use the darts or bolts, why not let them? The Assassins whole thing is about giving people freedom so it's odd when the game series where we play AS those Assassins does not let us have nearly as much freedom as other games.


Other

Possible Controls



Button
Action/Function
My Reasoning


Start
Pause Menu
Because duh.


Back/Select
Map
It's convenient and duh, again.


Left Thumbstick


Character Movement
Cover System


The left thumbstick acts as the
movement portion of the puppeteer
concept. That's why moving it in a
direction will have the character move
in that way. Clicking it also deals with
movement by having the character
enter into cover. It also makes it more
fluid to enter cover than another button


Right Thumbstick


Camera Movement
Click to enter Eagle Vision


The right thumbstick acts as the "head"
portion of the puppeteer concept and
that's why moving it around changes
the camera view and clicking it
activates Eagle Vision because both
deal with sight.


A


Fast Walk/Gentle Push


The A button is the "urgent" movement
button. It indicates that you need to
get somewhere quicker than with a
casual stroll but it also indicates that
you need to still keep a relatively low
profile. Because the fast walk means
you want to go fast, it automatically
pushes people out of your way.



B


Press to Interact
Hold to Pick Pocket
Hold to Loot Bodies


This is the "arm" movement of the
puppeteer system. It causes you to
use your arms. It allows you to enter
your hideout by opening the door.
Because you use your hands to pick
pocket and to loot bodies, it also
functions as those.


X




Y




D-Pad
Weapon Hotkey



Left Trigger




Right Trigger




Left Bumper




Right Bumper







Start - Action/Function - Reasoning
Back/Select
Left Thumbstick
Right Thumbstick
A
B
X
Y
D-Pad
Left Trigger
Right Trigger
Left Bumper
Right Bumper



Cheats: I really like the concept of Animus Hacks/Cheats and some of them are cool for AC4. Brotherhood had the fantastic unicorn and energy weapons cheat. Here are my ideas for cheats.

Time: Alter the time of day and lock it in place if you wish.

Morning
Day
Dusk
Night


Weather: Alter the weather and lock it in place if you wish.

Rainy
Stormy
Cloudy
Sunny
Snow
Blizzard


Notorious: Permanently make yourself Notorious.
Inconspicuous: Permanently make yourself Incognito.
Always Loved: Permanently keep your Influence at maximum.
Forever Hated: Permanently keep your Influence at its lowest.
Den Lock: Permanently lock your Dens.
Classic Templars: Replace all enemies and guards with Crusades-era Templar knights.
Everything Is Permitted: No penalty for killing civilians except it lowers Influence (unless you use the "Always Loved" cheat)
Fast Killer: Every attack is a chained instant kill.
Hardcore: You die very quickly.
Invulnerable: You can never die but you can be hurt.
Multiplayer in Singleplayer: Use a multiplayer character in the singleplayer game world.


Unlockable Outfits -- Depending on the character, for instance, if it's a female character... perhaps the outfits could instead be

Altair: Altair's Robes need to be fixed and need to be given the same robe physics as Connor's and Edward's robes.

Default/Assassin White
Masyaf Black
Damascus Crimson
Acre Gray


Giovanni Robes: The outfit worn by Ezio in AC2; these should also have updated physics.

Default/Assassin Whie
Wetlands Ebony
Florentine Scarlet
Venetian Teal


Ezio Robes: The outfit worn by Ezio in ACB; these should also have updated physics.

Default/Assassin White
Wetlands Ebony
Florentine Crimson
Roman Guilded Onyx


Ezio Traveling Robes: The outfit worn by Ezio in ACR; these should also have updated physics.

Default/Original Gray
Masyaf White
Aegean Marble
Royal Violet


Connor: The outfit worn by Connor in AC3.

Default
Jamestown
New York
Boston


Edward: The outfit worn by Edward in AC4.

Default
Explorer
Pirate Captain
Privateer


Desmond Miles: He may not be the main, over arching protagonist of the series anymore but god dang it, let us use his AC3 skin while in the Animus! I'm really upset that Brotherhood and Revelations let us play as Desmond but then, come AC3 -- his BIG FINISH, his FINAL HURRAH... we get no Desmond skin -_-
Armor of Altair
Armor of Brutus
Helmschmeid Drachen Armor


Weapons: I love weapon variety and I love the different animations for weapons. I do think weapons could be streamlined a bit. In parentheses are the locations where each weapon is stored.

Primary Weapon (HIP) -- This is the main weapon.
Heavy Weapon (BACK) -- In place of a primary weapon, the more combat and heavy weapon-oriented players may opt to use a heavy weapon which instead of awkwardly hanging at the hip like in previous games, will be strapped to your back.
Secondary Weapon (HIP) -- This is for smaller weapons.
Ranged Weapon (BACK) -- This is your ranged weapon category.
Hidden Blades (WRISTS) -- This one's obvious.
Smoke Bombs
Distraction Items -- Throwable objects used to distract enemies.
Legacy Weapons -- Another idea is to include "Legacy" weapons. Special unlockable weapons we get for certain challenges.

Kenway Family Sword
Connor's Hidden Blades
Ezio's Hidden Blades
Assassin Tomahawk
Altair's Sword

MnemonicSyntax
12-03-2013, 05:46 AM
I love all your ideas except this one: Killing a guard or civilian for no reason: Raises Notoriety; Lowers Influence

The reason I say this because some days, I just like to turn on AC and start some ish, ya know? So if there was a way to disable Influence/Notoriety (though I'd keep Notoriety to cause more ish to go down) then I'd be okay with this.

Also, Assassination Contracts are... good. But I thought in 2/Broham there were too many of them. So if we knew how many their were in each city, or how many at each coop, I'd be okay with that. I wouldn't want them to respawn though, because I'm a completionist and that would annoy me if I had to keep going back to do more Assassinations.



Fast Walk, Pushing, and Pick Pocketing


Keep the fast walk from AC3 (and possibly AC4?). Instead of the old AC games where the "push past people" and "fast walk" were separate, it makes sense for the fast walk to also BE the "gentle push" button. Again, like AC3, make it so B is now the pick pocket button instead. I don't really care if pick pocketing is slow like AC1 or AC3 (AC4?) or instant like AC2, ACB, and ACR as long as it's separate from the fast walk. It's much more fluid to have the fast walk and gentle push be the same action -- a fast walk would indicate you want to get somewhere quick and a gentle push adds to the intent whereas a brisk pace doesn't necessarily equate to wanting to pickpocket someone. That was a good improvement in AC3 that I hope they keep.



And this I absolutely agree with and glad it stuck around in 4 too. I don't want to fast walk/pickpocket because it seems extremely unrealistic. It should be somewhat difficult and I think the B button does that nicely.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-03-2013, 06:17 AM
I love all your ideas except this one: Killing a guard or civilian for no reason: Raises Notoriety; Lowers Influence

The reason I say this because some days, I just like to turn on AC and start some ish, ya know? So if there was a way to disable Influence/Notoriety (though I'd keep Notoriety to cause more ish to go down) then I'd be okay with this.

Oh I get it. If you look at my ideas for Cheats there are 4 cheats dealing with Notoriety and Influence, 2 that set them at their max and two that set them to their lowest. I'm not sure how you get cheats in AC4 but aren't they easier than in AC3? But yeah, you could mess around. Besides... I don't think it needs to be ridiculously hard to raise your notoriety back up. Bribing speakers and things like that would knock it back down just like you do things to drop Notoriety.


Also, Assassination Contracts are... good. But I thought in 2/Broham there were too many of them. So if we knew how many their were in each city, or how many at each coop, I'd be okay with that. I wouldn't want them to respawn though, because I'm a completionist and that would annoy me if I had to keep going back to do more Assassinations.

Don't worry... like I said...there's a set number of "real/etablished" contracts. Those are like: You target is Michael Blahblahsmith. He's connected to the Templars and runs a brothel where he treats the women like slaves and forces them to blahblahblah." You then go and assassinate him. If you do it under, say 5 minutes or are never caught or something, you'll get 100% sync. There'd be, let's say 20-25 of those in a city. Once you finish them and get 100% sync on every single Contract in the game...it wil say you completed 100% of Contracts. The randomized contracts will simply give you a waypoint with a target in a now restricted area and you're job is to kill him and escape. No optional objectives for 100% sync, they don't count toward your entire synchronization either. They are literally JUST like encountering pickpockets and are a way for one of the main themes of the series, assassinations, to continue existing even after completing the main story and more established contracts.


Fast Walk, Pushing, and Pick Pocketing


Keep the fast walk from AC3 (and possibly AC4?). Instead of the old AC games where the "push past people" and "fast walk" were separate, it makes sense for the fast walk to also BE the "gentle push" button. Again, like AC3, make it so B is now the pick pocket button instead. I don't really care if pick pocketing is slow like AC1 or AC3 (AC4?) or instant like AC2, ACB, and ACR as long as it's separate from the fast walk. It's much more fluid to have the fast walk and gentle push be the same action -- a fast walk would indicate you want to get somewhere quick and a gentle push adds to the intent whereas a brisk pace doesn't necessarily equate to wanting to pickpocket someone. That was a good improvement in AC3 that I hope they keep.



And this I absolutely agree with and glad it stuck around in 4 too. I don't want to fast walk/pickpocket because it seems extremely unrealistic. It should be somewhat difficult and I think the B button does that nicely.

Yup. There are some things I didn't like about AC3 (that return in AC4) such as parkour feeling more floaty and weightless and being more automated but it also did some really cool things.

Landruner
12-03-2013, 06:19 AM
Nice ideas there , indeed I mean it! It is a long list of nice idea and It would be nice that someone from UBI read you thread of idea, take a notebook and start making a list from it.

I just point with the mention about the naval....and a next AC...
My problem I have now after playing AC4 is that I really liked the naval part and I know that a lot of people like it too - I just imagine the future complaints if the AC does not have the naval features on it. You know how people are, here is always something that the new game does not have that the previous had, and why it is not there now?

I think that UBISOFT should consider doing a spin off for Black Flag for its own franchise with pirate / assassins, but not related to the official A/Creed or something like that, and alternate the annual releases between the two. It will give officially the team(s) some more time to work on the projects as well, I am sure.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-03-2013, 06:48 AM
Nice ideas there , indeed I mean it! It is a long list of nice idea and It would be nice that someone from UBI read you thread of idea, take a notebook and start making a list from it.

I just point with the mention about the naval....and a next AC...
My problem I have now after playing AC4 is that I really liked the naval part and I know that a lot of people like it too - I just imagine the future complaints if the AC does not have the naval features on it. You know how people are, here is always something that the new game does not have that the previous had, and why it is not there now?

I think that UBISOFT should consider doing a spin off for Black Flag for its own franchise with pirate / assassins, but not related to the official A/Creed or something like that, and alternate the annual releases between the two. It will give officially the team(s) some more time to work on the projects as well, I am sure.

I wouldn't mind that. I don't want the devs to feel pressured to always include a naval aspect because that will ultimately hurt the series WAY more. There are plenty of fantastic locales they could select for an AC game but not all of them would make very much sense with a naval component so having a completly new franchise called Black Flag might be a good idea though I'm not sure how realistic it is to expect that.

PedroAntonio2
12-03-2013, 01:15 PM
I like some of your idead, Ubisoft should read it.

But low influence make people throw rocks at you for no reason ? Yeah, because everyone loved it in ACI ._.

And I don't see the point in become infamous just because you killed a guard for no reason, the combat in AC series finally became fun and I can't have some fun killing the guards ? No, what you are saying is turning the game in something linear.

Farlander1991
12-03-2013, 01:42 PM
A minor thing, but you CAN knock out guards on ledges without throwing them down. If you hold the high profile button, Connor/Edward will climb up and take care of the guard on the roof itself (non-lethal fists or lethal hidden-blades, what you have selected). So that's already in the games.

Overall, I think there are quite a few nice ideas there, though it also seems that you gathered so much from different previous games that it may become somewhat messy and is exactly the opposite of what AC needs to do know - it needs to clear up its vision. AC4 did a good job of gathering the best of each previous AC game while introducing some new thematic elements as well (but, having that said, it's still somewhat messy, since it also gathered the not-so best parts as well). What you have here, for the most part, seems to be the same principle - gathering up the best of the previous games while slightly reworking it, and I am not sure that's the direction AC needs to follow. It really needs to forget about all the fluff for now and focus solely on the parkour/combat/social stealth parts from the very core and polish them immensely, and have all the main and side content based directly on that core. And if it works, then things like factions and den defences and assassin brotherhood and all the likes should be carefully introduced to enhance the experience.

Hans684
12-03-2013, 03:49 PM
If Ubisoft want to improve their sosial stealth they need to take the sosial stealth from the Hitman series. Give us the ability to use enemy clothing, Ashraf said they tried, they should try again but this time they should:

* Return the blend button, make it limited like the instinct from Hitman.

* Ability to take enemy clothing/armor.

The detection system can be one out of two:

* Either the kind of guard you take the clothing from can detect you or a special guard that is made for trying to find you.

* Hitman: Same mission design for assassination missions & sosial stealth.

* Splinter Cell: Same mission design for infiltration missions, idetical system to choose gear and weapons before missions, stealth & it's smooth running takedowns.

* Thief: Not identical but a harder combat system.

MnemonicSyntax
12-03-2013, 04:04 PM
Social. It's spelled "social."

And no, don't bring back a button for blend.

Blending should be natural, there shouldn't be a button for it.

Hitman's mission designs are far too linear. When playing the latest Hitman, I found it so confining. Even if you can rig deaths to make them look accidental, it wasn't very fun.

Taking a guard's clothing is pointless unless it's mission specific like in previous AC games. It doesn't need to be an all the time ability.

Splinter Cell uses a light/dark system for stealth and that's not what "social" stealth does. And AC has smooth running takedowns.

Thief's an FPS. The combat system couldn't be "identical" if it tried.

Hans684
12-03-2013, 04:58 PM
Social. It's spelled "social."

And no, don't bring back a button for blend.

Blending should be natural, there shouldn't be a button for it.

Hitman's mission designs are far too linear. When playing the latest Hitman, I found it so confining. Even if you can rig deaths to make them look accidental, it wasn't very fun.

Taking a guard's clothing is pointless unless it's mission specific like in previous AC games. It doesn't need to be an all the time ability.

Splinter Cell uses a light/dark system for stealth and that's not what "social" stealth does. And AC has smooth running takedowns.

Thief's an FPS. The combat system couldn't be "identical" if it tried.

Social.

Depends on how it is presented, obviously it wouldn't be that linear since AC is an open world game. Use your imagination and if it is 'fun' or not is an opinion.

Not pointless and have you played Assassin's Creed 3: Liberation? It does have a clothing system, but the Hitman clothing system is a lot better and and if something is 'needed' or nis up to Ubisoft, not us.

I never talked about the light/dark system but it's stealth concept from (Blacklist in terms of choosing your way. Typical stealth, social stealth, combat or something bettwen. Your gear, your way & your roles. and i know that's not what 'sosial' stealth does. Sure it has running takedowns but you lose more momentum in AC than SC.

I meant in terms of difficulty, obviously it wouldn't be 'identical' but harder with THIEF in mind.

Rugterwyper32
12-03-2013, 05:31 PM
I'll go in order based on what you posted here:

Parkour: We agreed here before, we still do. Keep freerunning mostly with RT only but have RT-A being a "start climb" button, bring back grasping for ledges and jumping to catch a higher one, keep vaulting, and not be afraid to experiment a little with city design adding whatever stuff they need to make things more fun and interesting. I'm sure no one will complain about climbing more viewpoints for the fun or it or run across a city filled with wooden beams between houses or random wooden platforms to make jumping between buildings in wider streets possible and whatnot. Experiment!

Blending: I can agree on this. I'd say another thing that could help is having areas with bigger groups of people and seeing overall more civilians around so you have multiple options going.

Naval: I still think naval should be there if the setting calls for it, but they shouldn't constantly look for settings that rely on naval. Make the next game one that improves noticeably on land exploration. Good horse controls, for example! There's a lot of potential in many settings (I'm imagining Germany and a varied landscape during the 30 Years Wars with castles, destroyed castles and towns, towns that are actually fine, caves here and there, areas that serve as secret locations all around the place...)

Random Events: They do need that. They're slowly getting there. One day, man. One day.

Factions: Basically keep it as it was in ACB. I don't have much of an issue with that. The idea for the assassins sounds fun, I'd say, brings them back but makes them a lot less of a "win" button. The idea for contracts sounds rather entertaining too, sounds to me like it could work like the bounty locations in RDR.

Dens and notoriety/influence: I had my own idea for how dens could work that could mix up with this one, I could always go hunt that one down. But overall, I like it. My idea could also mix with the notoriety and influence element of things. I'll post that here once I'm done with this post, because it's another long post. The one thing that I'm against is the return of wanted posters, they always hit me as rather silly. Cut down a wanted poster and suddenly all in the area disappear? Yeah...

Fast Walk, Gentle Push and Pickpocketing: Keep it as it currently is. Sounds good to me, it works. The way gentle push worked in AC3 reminded me somewhat of the CGI intro for AC1 where Altair starts moving faster among the crowd, moving them out of his way before killing the 2 guards with a crossbow followed by stabbing and killing his target. Too bad there wasn't any scenario where you could actually do that.

Customization: First off, one thing to say: I believe the money system should go. Goodbye money. No need for you. BUT. Customization can still work. See, here's the thing: If we're gonna have a hub area like the Kingdom, Frontier or the Caribbean, there has to be stuff to do. Hunting should, in my opinion, become a bigger part of the gameplay loop and I wouldn't mind having to do the RDR and collect plants (that could be the way for some) dyes to work, for instance. The way I think it could work?
- Dyes you can use can be either crafted from certain plants or obtained from doing sidequests for tailors around the cities
- Parts of each armor and weapons could be obtained by looting a military zone/castle/fort, or doing missions for blacksmiths.
- Other upgrades would rely on crafting, as well as some tools (say, you want to make more poisonous darts, you use animal bones and some poison/medicine looted from the plantation equivalent)
That way you kill off the overkill amount of chests that reward you with basically nothing, the constant excess of money which gets ridiculous, and a better motivation for hunting (not being able to buy pelts and whatnot). Then I'll have no complaints with the rest. And yeah, changing and removing stuff should go without saying by now, everyone wants it by now.

Other: Sounds good to me overall, just keep the Armor of Brutus away. Man that looked clunky and incredibly heavy. Didn't know about the Drachen Armor 'til now, but I think I could do without it too. Two final outfits from the Ezio trilogy and a DLC one? I don't think I'd complain with one of the DLC ones of AC3 (I'd highly appreciate the Colonial Assassin outfit only with the silly looking hat changed) and from all outfits I could see from AC4 I'd say maybe the Stealth Outfit? And give them variety. Otherwise it all sounds fine by me.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-04-2013, 12:21 AM
I like some of your idead, Ubisoft should read it.

But low influence make people throw rocks at you for no reason ? Yeah, because everyone loved it in ACI ._.

And I don't see the point in become infamous just because you killed a guard for no reason, the combat in AC series finally became fun and I can't have some fun killing the guards ? No, what you are saying is turning the game in something linear.

No...they wouldn't throw rocks at you for no reason. It would only happen if you were being chased by guards. If you're just climbing around, no rocks would be thrown. So let's say you have Low Notoriety meaning guards don't give a crap about you unless you do an illegal act but you also have low Influence... then if you're running around on rooftops or climbing, civilians won't do anything. But if you perform an illegal act and get chased by guards, some civilians might throw rocks at you to hinder your escape, forcing you to run on the ground and try and find a well/haystack OR sit and fight the guards off. It wouldn't be for no reason, it would ONLY occur during a chase. Hope that makes sense.

How is it making it linear? It just gives consequences for your actions, gives it a slight RPG element in addition to the NUMEROUS other RPG elements present since the second game in the series. You have to balance your actions and there would even be the unlockable "cheats" that freeze the Notoriety or Influence at their maximum or lowest so you can mess around.

It's also not like it's impossible to build your Influence back up, just help out the civilians in need, which you will have plenty of time to do considering my hope for never ending random encounters.


A minor thing, but you CAN knock out guards on ledges without throwing them down. If you hold the high profile button, Connor/Edward will climb up and take care of the guard on the roof itself (non-lethal fists or lethal hidden-blades, what you have selected). So that's already in the games.

Overall, I think there are quite a few nice ideas there, though it also seems that you gathered so much from different previous games that it may become somewhat messy and is exactly the opposite of what AC needs to do know - it needs to clear up its vision. AC4 did a good job of gathering the best of each previous AC game while introducing some new thematic elements as well (but, having that said, it's still somewhat messy, since it also gathered the not-so best parts as well). What you have here, for the most part, seems to be the same principle - gathering up the best of the previous games while slightly reworking it, and I am not sure that's the direction AC needs to follow. It really needs to forget about all the fluff for now and focus solely on the parkour/combat/social stealth parts from the very core and polish them immensely, and have all the main and side content based directly on that core. And if it works, then things like factions and den defences and assassin brotherhood and all the likes should be carefully introduced to enhance the experience.

Oh yeah! I totally forgot about that. Then keep it obviously haha

That's what I mean. For instance the whole Den Defense thing... I'd want it gutted completely and reworked to match the core principals of the series so that way you can free run, fight, etc. So for acquiring a den, you assassinate the leader -- that plays into the whole assassination aspect of the series. When it comes under attack, you're able to climb, free run, etc. around the den and the surrounding area to take care of the attacking Templars. You use whatever tools you want to deal with them. Rather than a shoehorned mini-game or a completely new gameplay mechanic (like naval battles) it's simply another thing to do in the game world that utilizes the parkour, combat, and things like that.

That's why I discussed changes to Notoriety (including a new Influence system to give weight to our actions a bit more), dynamic blending (such as keeping the ability to blend when in between anyone not just specific groups of people), blending animations (such as laughing or clapping when the rest of a crowd does), etc. As for combat... I think AC3 and AC4 combat is the best of the series... AC1/AC2 were too counter heavy making battles with 4 people take forever and giving us no true offensive options. ACB and ACR made the combat WAY too easy by letting us counter easier and then letting us string together insta-kills with a single button so that a group of 20 enemies was nothing. AC3 and AC4 made it so some enemies can be countered, some need to be disarmed, enemies will fire at you so you need to make sure you grab a human shield, etc. They took the offensive options and kept them in place but also made it so it was a lot harder to deal with larger groups of enemies. As for Parkour -- I think introducing vaults is great...they even introduced slides (such as sliding under tables) but it's way too hard to perform in AC3 (not sure if it's as hard to pull off in 4) but I think they need to tweak it so when you hold B while sprinting/running, you'll duck under things while holding A will vault over things. As for climbing, I think the current system leads to too many accidental climbs and thus when you reach a wall, holding or pressing A should initiate the climb instead of just right trigger. Now i'm not saying I want the A button to return in the same manner as before (that is as a sprint button) as I feel the thumbstick should be the indicator of how fast you wish to be as it currently is but it should be the climb button. I also mentioned wanting a return of the leap and grip move introduced in AC2 because right now, the climbing is far too automated IMO. It feels weightless and everything is done automatically. I wish the larger gaps/jumps would not be automatic and instead given us to perform.

As for parkour animations -- they're wonderful and better than they've ever been so keeping the same animations or refining them slightly would be all that's needed for that.


If Ubisoft want to improve their sosial stealth they need to take the sosial stealth from the Hitman series. Give us the ability to use enemy clothing, Ashraf said they tried, they should try again but this time they should:

* Return the blend button, make it limited like the instinct from Hitman.

* Ability to take enemy clothing/armor.

The detection system can be one out of two:

* Either the kind of guard you take the clothing from can detect you or a special guard that is made for trying to find you.

* Hitman: Same mission design for assassination missions & sosial stealth.

* Splinter Cell: Same mission design for infiltration missions, idetical system to choose gear and weapons before missions, stealth & it's smooth running takedowns.

* Thief: Not identical but a harder combat system.

No. AC doesn't need to turn into Hitman with all of the disguises. They just need to give us a target and allow us several ways of performing an assassination: do you use the crowd of people to enter the area and move from crowd to crowd before jumping up onto the stage to kill him dramatically? Do you move from crowd to crowd, wait for him to finish his speech and wait for him to enter the crowd and then quietly stab him from behind with the hidden blade and casually walk away before anyone notices? Do you utilize the roofs and climb to the top, taking out the roof guards and then shooting him from up above? Do you air assassinate him from the roof? Do you call your Assassins to help and storm the gates and battle the guards in an open brawl and then kill the target? Do you wait for him to move close to a bench and plan your attack for when you're sitting there to kill him quickly and then sit him down on the same bench?

Disguises and a blend mechanic like the one from Hitman Absolution isn't really necessary. AC has it's crowd mechanic that it just needs to do more with.

AC has smooth running takedowns. I agree on choosing gear and weapons but that should be done at the Homestead/Villa/Hideout place and should be possible at any time you return there regardless of whether you're in a mission or not.

As for Thief... sure...harder combat might be fun but I like the fluidity of AC's combat. It's like a more lethal version of the free flowing combat from the Arkham games.

Landruner
12-04-2013, 12:56 AM
@ BoBweUzHeRe1138

I repost one of the example I previously posted on another thread concerning my ideas about the new AI ( AI stands for Artificial Idiot(s)) http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/wink.png

What could have worked for AC4, but can be used in another AC

Examples for AC4 BF:

AI1: - Free Roaming: Casual AI like it is in the AC's games with the different archetypes for the Foes (Examples AC4's Collecting stuff, exploring cities, messing around)

AI2: - Blending AI reserved for the missions that require blending stealth (Examples the AC's tailing, stealing, infiltration, assassination)
Guards and foes are more attentive to the way you behave and you have to keep a low profile (Like AC1 concept, and the Hitman series)
Some missions can be designed as playable at night and guard' s AI will be set in consequence besides the ground melting or disguise ability, Some missions can also be set in interior and the mission's designs and AI will be set in consequence.

About the New Tailing Mission design, I left an example somewhere 3 weeks ago, I can find it and I don't have the time the redo it for that post.
-

AI3: - Restricted Area that requires environmental stealth skills or good fighter skills depending how players want to play it ( Example the AC4's Plantations) Although it is preferable to be stealthy, the ones that do not want to be can go ahead and do rampage. Parkourt is still possible but requires more attention to the environment, discretion, speed and guards location.

Guards and foes are really smart, and can detect you based on the noise you make, can detect if one guard is gone missing, they investigate after suspicion and won't quit until they find you. Example (Thief, dishonored series) Be careful about the bodies left over,

Some missions can be designed as playable at night and guard' s AI will be set in consequence, Some mission can also be set in interior and mission design and AI will be set in consequence.

The crouch option is there and AI is set in consequence and accordingly to that new option based if player want to use discretion or not. The crouch button is optional and activated by player attention. If player is detected the crouch is off automatically and player can stand for or fight or an escape.
I player can find an escape save to hide like a bush or pile of hay the player has to re-activate the crouch mod,

If fights happen they are a bit harder that other fights, (It is more risky. but still possible to get away) however: players can still escape out of the area or stay and hide, but once players had been detected the guards look for you, Payers have accessories such as gold or stone they can toss to create diversion ( Example Far Cry 3) , but player have to use wisely because some guards are not stupid neither. If some missions happen inside player can use environments for the jumping skills, however player have to be smart and strategic in order to not alerting the guards. (Remember the first Sprinter Cell?, something like that)

AI4: - Reserved for the foes on the ships or any location that can require massive battles (AI for Special fighters, Level is variant with difficulty depending of the location)

Let me know what you think about it/

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-04-2013, 01:18 AM
I'll go in order based on what you posted here:

Parkour: We agreed here before, we still do. Keep freerunning mostly with RT only but have RT-A being a "start climb" button, bring back grasping for ledges and jumping to catch a higher one, keep vaulting, and not be afraid to experiment a little with city design adding whatever stuff they need to make things more fun and interesting. I'm sure no one will complain about climbing more viewpoints for the fun or it or run across a city filled with wooden beams between houses or random wooden platforms to make jumping between buildings in wider streets possible and whatnot. Experiment!

And we still agree. Cities do not have to be 100% accurate. Heck, they don't even need to be 90, 85% accurate. They just need to be accurate ENOUGH to give the feel of the time but still be fun enough to explore and free run around. Like you mentioned... AC3's city just felt TOO accurate and because of that...the parkour fell apart because dang it, those streets were so wide with barely anything to use to cross them and the tall towers were so few and far between.


Blending: I can agree on this. I'd say another thing that could help is having areas with bigger groups of people and seeing overall more civilians around so you have multiple options going.

Yes. Definitely yes. I want them to really utilize the crowd mechanic more. I like the idea of nixing the whole "this is a group of 4 people you cna blend with" and instead make it so you blend in between any one, not just "established" groups of them.


Naval: I still think naval should be there if the setting calls for it, but they shouldn't constantly look for settings that rely on naval. Make the next game one that improves noticeably on land exploration. Good horse controls, for example! There's a lot of potential in many settings (I'm imagining Germany and a varied landscape during the 30 Years Wars with castles, destroyed castles and towns, towns that are actually fine, caves here and there, areas that serve as secret locations all around the place...)

Agreed. If the setting calls for it, by all means include a naval aspect. But my fear is that they will start to shy away from locations and time periods where naval aspects might not have been as important and I think that's wrong when the series has the potential to go anywhere, any time.


Random Events: They do need that. They're slowly getting there. One day, man. One day.

We can dream...


Factions: Basically keep it as it was in ACB. I don't have much of an issue with that. The idea for the assassins sounds fun, I'd say, brings them back but makes them a lot less of a "win" button. The idea for contracts sounds rather entertaining too, sounds to me like it could work like the bounty locations in RDR.

Yup...that's why I thought maybe ditching the assassin call and instead only being able to acquire them outside Assassin Dens would kill two birds with one stone. It provides another thing the Dens are useful for and it means you can't just call your Assassins in whenever you need help but rather, you have to plan ahead and intentionally get a group from a Den and then yeah. I thought it might actually be cool to be able to use LT to zoom in and then say...press Y or whatever to "plant" them there. So that way...you can set Assassins up and so if you're being chased by a guard, if you run by the place you planted your Assassin, he would jump and assassinate the guy. That way it gives you more command over the Assassins without having them be so much of a win button in that they appear from nowhere. If you want them to pop out of a haystack, plant them in there so when you come by, you can then signal for them and they'll pop out of the hay..or wherever you placed them. Still, that might be a bit cumbersome, not sure.


Dens and notoriety/influence: I had my own idea for how dens could work that could mix up with this one, I could always go hunt that one down. But overall, I like it. My idea could also mix with the notoriety and influence element of things. I'll post that here once I'm done with this post, because it's another long post. The one thing that I'm against is the return of wanted posters, they always hit me as rather silly. Cut down a wanted poster and suddenly all in the area disappear? Yeah...

Perhaps wanted posters could remain and rather than tearing one down and the rest vanishing...the more Notorious you get, the more posters go up. You would then have to tear down all the posters in the area before you would drop down to Incognito. Of course, we don't want like...50 wanted posters in an area so there'd need to be a manageable number of them and at that point, it's still probably not worth it.


Fast Walk, Gentle Push and Pickpocketing: Keep it as it currently is. Sounds good to me, it works. The way gentle push worked in AC3 reminded me somewhat of the CGI intro for AC1 where Altair starts moving faster among the crowd, moving them out of his way before killing the 2 guards with a crossbow followed by stabbing and killing his target. Too bad there wasn't any scenario where you could actually do that.

Agreed... like I said, they just need to utilize the crowd mechanic more.


Customization: First off, one thing to say: I believe the money system should go. Goodbye money. No need for you. BUT. Customization can still work. See, here's the thing: If we're gonna have a hub area like the Kingdom, Frontier or the Caribbean, there has to be stuff to do. Hunting should, in my opinion, become a bigger part of the gameplay loop and I wouldn't mind having to do the RDR and collect plants (that could be the way for some) dyes to work, for instance. The way I think it could work?
- Dyes you can use can be either crafted from certain plants or obtained from doing sidequests for tailors around the cities
- Parts of each armor and weapons could be obtained by looting a military zone/castle/fort, or doing missions for blacksmiths.
- Other upgrades would rely on crafting, as well as some tools (say, you want to make more poisonous darts, you use animal bones and some poison/medicine looted from the plantation equivalent)
That way you kill off the overkill amount of chests that reward you with basically nothing, the constant excess of money which gets ridiculous, and a better motivation for hunting (not being able to buy pelts and whatnot). Then I'll have no complaints with the rest. And yeah, changing and removing stuff should go without saying by now, everyone wants it by now.

Other: Sounds good to me overall, just keep the Armor of Brutus away. Man that looked clunky and incredibly heavy. Didn't know about the Drachen Armor 'til now, but I think I could do without it too. Two final outfits from the Ezio trilogy and a DLC one? I don't think I'd complain with one of the DLC ones of AC3 (I'd highly appreciate the Colonial Assassin outfit only with the silly looking hat changed) and from all outfits I could see from AC4 I'd say maybe the Stealth Outfit? And give them variety. Otherwise it all sounds fine by me.

I get what you mean about ditching the money but I don't think it will happen..BUT. I think it can be heavily tweaked. Money should never be accumulated for nothing (ditch the whole investment system. Money shouldn't be earned after completing a memory/mission either. Money should be earned through selling items such as materials you've mined, meat/skin from animals you've hunted, items you've crafted such as swords or daggers or leather armor. Money could also alternatively be earned by completing jobs such as delivering letters and returning to the person, etc. Perhaps they could, in fact, include a bounty system LIKE RDR where you can track down wanted criminals and turn them in, dead or alive for money. You will have much less money I believe, if you can't just walk up to a chest and take out 80,000 florins or whatever. You'd have to WORK for your money a bit more and you'll need the money for other things.

I thought hunting could also be used to craft leather armor in addition to finding armor in military bases and the like. Perhaps there could be a form of mining (nothing in depth) where you go to certain areas, similar to the fertile hunting ground areas, such as caves and inside (or outside) you can find a shimmering piece of rock. Walk up to it, press the Interact button and your character begins to mine in a short little animation. You'll then get some raw ore such as iron or something. You can then craft the armor. You could alternatively use it to craft new weapons. Crafting should be done at your hideout area such as the Homestead or Villa but only if you've bought the upgrade that includes a place for crafting and smithing. When you

That's another thing I thought about... perhaps they could include a weapon degradation system, similar to the armor degradation. I don't think it should necessarily break but it's stats will eventually drop down to the basic sword stats kind of like broken armor will drop you down to the standard amount of health until repaired. When a weapon is broken, you could take it to a blacksmith for a quick repair (that costs money) or you could return to your hideout for a free repair if you've bought the upgrade (that way the upgrades to the house is meaningful -- something I heard was absent in AC4)

I'm just spitballing ideas because I doubt they'll ditch money but they should fix it up. I agree -- get rid of treasure chests except maybe in a few locations -- for instance, I don't mind a couple of chests of money in a Templar or Assassin tomb but they shouldn't be littering the city or anything. Treasure chests should only appear in tombs or should be hidden and require work to find them. No money for completing story missions or side missions either. Money from selling things, pickpocketing people, and from finding hidden treasure chests in caves and the like.

RoBg03
12-04-2013, 02:25 AM
looks like an ac fan wishlist. i agree with most. i wouldn't make the effect of throwing money last very long though. i don't know if anyone else does this, but once i get a lot of money sometimes i just go throwing it around like crazy....maybe just have it help your influence for a short time, otherwise it'd be to easy to just throw some coin every so often.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-04-2013, 10:31 AM
@ BoBweUzHeRe1138

I repost one of the example I previously posted on another thread concerning my ideas about the new AI ( AI stands for Artificial Idiot(s)) http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/wink.png

What could have worked for AC4, but can be used in another AC

Examples for AC4 BF:

AI1: - Free Roaming: Casual AI like it is in the AC's games with the different archetypes for the Foes (Examples AC4's Collecting stuff, exploring cities, messing around)

AI2: - Blending AI reserved for the missions that require blending stealth (Examples the AC's tailing, stealing, infiltration, assassination)
Guards and foes are more attentive to the way you behave and you have to keep a low profile (Like AC1 concept, and the Hitman series)
Some missions can be designed as playable at night and guard' s AI will be set in consequence besides the ground melting or disguise ability, Some missions can also be set in interior and the mission's designs and AI will be set in consequence.

About the New Tailing Mission design, I left an example somewhere 3 weeks ago, I can find it and I don't have the time the redo it for that post.
-

AI3: - Restricted Area that requires environmental stealth skills or good fighter skills depending how players want to play it ( Example the AC4's Plantations) Although it is preferable to be stealthy, the ones that do not want to be can go ahead and do rampage. Parkourt is still possible but requires more attention to the environment, discretion, speed and guards location.

Guards and foes are really smart, and can detect you based on the noise you make, can detect if one guard is gone missing, they investigate after suspicion and won't quit until they find you. Example (Thief, dishonored series) Be careful about the bodies left over,

Some missions can be designed as playable at night and guard' s AI will be set in consequence, Some mission can also be set in interior and mission design and AI will be set in consequence.

The crouch option is there and AI is set in consequence and accordingly to that new option based if player want to use discretion or not. The crouch button is optional and activated by player attention. If player is detected the crouch is off automatically and player can stand for or fight or an escape.
I player can find an escape save to hide like a bush or pile of hay the player has to re-activate the crouch mod,

If fights happen they are a bit harder that other fights, (It is more risky. but still possible to get away) however: players can still escape out of the area or stay and hide, but once players had been detected the guards look for you, Payers have accessories such as gold or stone they can toss to create diversion ( Example Far Cry 3) , but player have to use wisely because some guards are not stupid neither. If some missions happen inside player can use environments for the jumping skills, however player have to be smart and strategic in order to not alerting the guards. (Remember the first Sprinter Cell?, something like that)

AI4: - Reserved for the foes on the ships or any location that can require massive battles (AI for Special fighters, Level is variant with difficulty depending of the location)

Let me know what you think about it/


looks like an ac fan wishlist. i agree with most. i wouldn't make the effect of throwing money last very long though. i don't know if anyone else does this, but once i get a lot of money sometimes i just go throwing it around like crazy....maybe just have it help your influence for a short time, otherwise it'd be to easy to just throw some coin every so often.

Well it sort of is a wishlist isn't it? It's stuff I want the next AC (or the one after) to have. As for throwing money. Yeah, I thought the same (and did the same haha) and so perhaps instead, that can be a limited time thing like you said. Alternatively (or in addition to that) beggars could be given money with a short animation of you giving them the money and that would raise it permanently (well permanently until you do something to lower it but it wouldn't go down by itself). That way, you have something to do for beggars instead of just throwing money which will invariably cause EVERYONE, rich or poor, to push people out of the way and grab at the coins like savages haha

Farlander1991
12-04-2013, 10:31 AM
That's what I mean. For instance the whole Den Defense thing... I'd want it gutted completely and reworked to match the core principals of the series so that way you can free run, fight, etc. So for acquiring a den, you assassinate the leader -- that plays into the whole assassination aspect of the series. When it comes under attack, you're able to climb, free run, etc. around the den and the surrounding area to take care of the attacking Templars. You use whatever tools you want to deal with them. Rather than a shoehorned mini-game or a completely new gameplay mechanic (like naval battles) it's simply another thing to do in the game world that utilizes the parkour, combat, and things like that.

Well, what I'm saying is that Den Defense even in that form is going to be tied to mechanics like territory control and what not, and that sort of thing is 'the fluff' that I was talking about.


but I think they need to tweak it so when you hold B while sprinting/running, you'll duck under things while holding A will vault over things.

That's the way it works in both AC3 and AC4 :) (well, I don't know in terms of XBox controls, but the button that is used to hang and fall down is used for ducking under things and the button for jumping is used for vaulting over)


I also mentioned wanting a return of the leap and grip move introduced in AC2 because right now, the climbing is far too automated IMO.

I am two-fold about that. On one hand, I was sad to see it go as indeed you do less things during climbing. On the other hand, the leap and grip move was... really annoying, to be honest, I think it didn't really flow well.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-04-2013, 11:51 AM
Well, what I'm saying is that Den Defense even in that form is going to be tied to mechanics like territory control and what not, and that sort of thing is 'the fluff' that I was talking about.

Aw, I see. True but I do think it fits the idea of the series -- the never-ending tug of war between Templars and Assassins but yes, it *is* extra when compared to the core. That's why I hope any and all fluff is in some way tied to basic mechanics and then the even fluffier bits are more for amusement (like the little games you could play like checkers)


That's the way it works in both AC3 and AC4 :) (well, I don't know in terms of XBox controls, but the button that is used to hang and fall down is used for ducking under things and the button for jumping is used for vaulting over)

Yeah it's the same in theory but I'm not sure how to pull it off consistently and I tend to just vault or do the classic "hop onto object and hop back off" move. :/ Maybe I'm just a noob but It'd flow better if all you did was hold B down and the character would duck/slide under anything he can as long as it's held. Same with A and vaults. And of course, the equivalent PS controls.


I am two-fold about that. On one hand, I was sad to see it go as indeed you do less things during climbing. On the other hand, the leap and grip move was... really annoying, to be honest, I think it didn't really flow well.

Perhaps instead of the leap button and grip button being two separate functions they could compromise and the leap and grip buttons are tied into one command. So you get to a large gap on a wall you're climbing and you press A to leap up and then the character automatically grips the next ledge. That way you don't have to press a button to leap AND THEN press a button to grip, instead you press one button for the leap and he grips it himself. That would make it a little less automatic but still have the player do things instead of just pressing up on the thumbstick...

Farlander1991
12-04-2013, 12:00 PM
Aw, I see. True but I do think it fits the idea of the series -- the never-ending tug of war between Templars and Assassins but yes, it *is* extra when compared to the core. That's why I hope any and all fluff is in some way tied to basic mechanics and then the even fluffier bits are more for amusement (like the little games you could play like checkers)


I guess. But I want so much AC to refocus on the core to fully develop it that I just feel without any fluff of any kind (even if it's tightly connected), nothing will distract the devs from the core :)


Yeah it's the same in theory but I'm not sure how to pull it off consistently and I tend to just vault or do the classic "hop onto object and hop back off" move. :/ Maybe I'm just a noob but It'd flow better if all you did was hold B down and the character would duck/slide under anything he can as long as it's held. Same with A and vaults.

Well, in AC3 you have to press the button certain moments before vaulting/ducking (so timing is required), in AC4 as far as I noticed you just have to hold the buttons whenever.

AssassinHMS
12-04-2013, 03:21 PM
Very good ideas!
I really like your list but I feel the need to add a few important aspects.

AC hasn’t been about AC for a long time now. Navigation, stealth and combat are in a miserable shape and the developer’s only reaction so far, has been to hide this misery with naval and other features that take away the player’s attention from the real thing. There is only one way that AC can have well-developed core mechanics and make the player feel like an assassin.
First rule: The core mechanics must be balanced, in a way that each one of them has its own place and point.
Second rule: All the core mechanics need to be well-developed and challenging.
This means that:
Combat – there needs to be a real combat system that isn’t a matter of triggering violent cutscenes where the assassin performs some Hollywood stunts. I have already given the “stamina based combat idea” where the point is to tire the opponent causing his moves to be slower and less powerful. In order to cause fatigue to the opponent, the player needs to attack repeatedly while being able to respond to the enemy’s attacks and use a combination of moves (attack-quickstep-punch-attack, for example) in order to catch the opponent by surprise and deal some damage (like wounding by hitting the arm, leg or chest). Wounding the enemy will cause a severe decrease of stamina which will result in slower and less accurate attacks. In this phase, the player can more likely pull off “finisher attacks” (stab with a knife, impale with sword, etc.) that are slower and easier to deflect but that deal much more damage. If the enemy fails to deflect such an attack, he will suffer maximum damage and, if he is still alive after the impact, he will be incapacitated and will ask for mercy or try some desperate attack. The camera is set behind the assassin’s back, similar when outside combat. This plus the fact that the assassin doesn’t have “eyes on his back” which means the player can’t counter attacks from everywhere, will encourage the player to plan a strategic position (like fighting with the back against a wall) when facing multiple opponents. However, the player will be warned when an enemy behind him is about to strike which should give enough time for the player to perform a quickstep or vault in order to dodge the attack. These evading maneuvers are also helpful when multiple enemies attack at once and may even result in two enemies attacking each other. But make no mistake, fighting more than 3 or 4 enemies isn’t easy and more than 5 nearly impossible. This makes combat exhilarating and allows stealth and escape to have their own place. If outnumbered, the player can always escape and resume stealth or try to separate the pursuers and strike them in smaller groups.

Stealth – stealth, must be a requirement in the game. I’m, by no means, saying that the player is forced to choose the stealth route (not at all), but missions will require a mix of stealth, navigation and combat. They are all core mechanics and gamers who don’t want to experience stealth at all shouldn’t choose AC. That’s just the way it is, AC shouldn’t be sacrificed so that people can choose which core mechanics they want. Core mechanic also means it is fundamental to the experience. However, players will be able to choose whether they rely more on combat or more on stealth (that is their choice).
Stealth can only truly evolve if it becomes challenging. Enemy AI needs to be improved, not telepathic like in AC3 but not dumb as in AC4. Shadow/light stealth is a must. I don’t know why it wasn’t implemented in the first place but it makes perfect sense for an assassin and brings some very interesting situations. Crouch is a must, too.
Other stealth elements would be welcome too. For example, guards that have already spotted the assassin and are keeping an eye for him should be able to react in time in case the assassin decides to stab them with the hidden blade (like Robert in the first mission in AC1). In order to eliminate the guard without a struggle, the player could casually drop a gold coin in front of him. As soon as he kneels to pick it up, you strike him down with the hidden blade without making a sound.
Another example would be the addition of a quiet assassination. Let’s say you want to kill a target that is right behind a wall of guards. In order to do so, you climb the building or find an alternative route to reach the target from behind. So far so good but, if you assassinate him, as soon as the body reaches the ground every nearby guard will hear the noise and you will be in a tough spot. However, by holding the attack button (square on the ps3), the assassin not only would assassinate in low profile, but would also drop the body carefully avoiding making a sound.
As for social stealth there are two things that I consider to be crucial (in the name of fun and immersion):
Accessories – cape/cloak that conceal a crossbow or a bow (retractable perhaps), boots where you can place a knife, long sleeves to conceal the hidden blade vambrace (like prowler) or a glove (like Ezio), a sword concealed as a cane, etc. This way, those who want to carry many weapons, can do so without sacrificing immersion while making use of a more complex social stealth system. Players that have their weapons and armor concealed will be treated as regular civilians by guards while those who unsheathe or display their weapons will cause guards to be more vigilant and more aggressive and will be blamed for any disturbance in the city.
Crowds – Moving inside a crowd is all well and good, but when you see a group of four NPCs every corner, it starts to feel forced and ridiculous. AC1 and AC3 had a better concept of crowd. While in AC1 you were always hidden in the crowd as long as you didn’t perform any high-profile action and didn’t attract attention to yourself (break jars or bum into people), in AC3, you could be hidden in the midst of people or in small groups where you mimicked their actions. However both were flawed and sometimes unreliable or extremely unrealistic.
My idea is to get rid of the four NPC squad (like in AC2 or AC4) and the ability to “vanish” between two NPCs (like in AC3) and add huge crowds (of 10 or more NPCs) in certain locations and “special” NPCs that serve as a social disguise (that work in a similar way to the courtesan in the AC4 CGI trailer).
As for the huge crowds, this would be the general idea: Imagine you’re escaping from some guards when suddenly you listen to the sound of music and of people chatting. You follow the sound only to discover a big group of citizens enjoying some festivities outdoors or inside a building (depending on the situation). In order to escape the pursuers you join the people and lose yourself in the chaotic crowd. You will eventually break your pursuer’s line of sight and, while they are lost in the maze of NPCs looking for you, you walk way casually and vanish without anyone noticing you were even there.
So yeah, the point is to make huge crowds in specific locations that make sense for them to exist instead of small groups of NPCs everywhere.
Notice that you can also complement the social stealth with shadow/light based stealth resulting in interesting combinations.

Navigation – this is probably the most underdeveloped (core) mechanic in AC. Navigation is summarized to holding down a trigger and watch the game do everything (even if it isn’t what you wanted it to do). It needs to be a lot less automatic. We must be the ones to say when and where we want the assassin to jump, to climb, to roll and to slide. This is what makes the player feel in the shoes of the assassin and feel in control of the experience, of the action. Another problem with current navigation is its lack of purpose. Navigation, in the form of escape, is the bridge between combat and stealth. Combat shouldn’t be easy but the transition between combat and navigation should. Escape can be exhilarating and thrilling if combat actually reaches a state that “passes the ball” to navigation or else this core mechanic is wasted. Escape should have new elements as well, like being able to bump civilians to cause them to drop their merchandise on the nearest pursuer’s heads or to slide or dodge enemies that are blocking the path. There are a ton of additions that would make navigation a lot better and an actual gameplay core mechanic.


In the end, what needs to be done is to balance the core mechanics. Combat mustn’t be the only core mechanic, it mustn’t do stealth’s and navigation’s roles and it needs to be more challenging along with the other core mechanics. This way each core mechanic can have a purpose of its own and all of them will be thrilling and intense creating an Assassin’s Creed experience that relies on its core and on its premises.

MnemonicSyntax
12-04-2013, 03:33 PM
The "A to vault, B to slide" isn't true. It's contextual. If a fence is too high to vault over it, as you sprint toward it and hold A, you'll slide under it instead. Same with hammocks. In 3, there was a message that would pop up and tell you about vaulting and you could use either A or B to do it while running.

While I understand this is a "wishlist" of sorts, I hope they keep it contextual, because I find A easier to use while running than B. Of course, since some people want to be able to run with trigger and A held down, like previous AC games (why?) then imagine holding down Trigger, A to run and B at the same time to vault. Ew.



AssassinHMS, I don't get this crap about "AC hasn't been AC for a long time now." You can still take out multiple people in AC1, they were just slow and stupid about it. There was no stealth whatsoever, except in a certain group of NPCs and Navigation has only improved since AC1.

So it's still the same thing since AC1. I get you're trying to "improve" AC, but to say it hasn't been the same for a long time now is completely ridiculous.

Farlander1991
12-04-2013, 03:46 PM
The "A to vault, B to slide" isn't true. It's contextual. If a fence is too high to vault over it, as you sprint toward it and hold A, you'll slide under it instead. Same with hammocks. In 3, there was a message that would pop up and tell you about vaulting and you could use either A or B to do it while running.

Well, kinda yes and no. Basically, if there's an object that you can both vault over and slide under, it will do it depending on what you have pressed, and if there's only one possible action, the button's irrelevant. I did tons of checks in AC3 when I was writing my blog series about it, so I hope you don't mind if I say I know this 100% :)

Wolfmeister1010
12-04-2013, 04:02 PM
I LOVE the ideas on customization.

MnemonicSyntax
12-04-2013, 04:11 PM
Well, kinda yes and no. Basically, if there's an object that you can both vault over and slide under, it will do it depending on what you have pressed, and if there's only one possible action, the button's irrelevant. I did tons of checks in AC3 when I was writing my blog series about it, so I hope you don't mind if I say I know this 100% :)

Yeah, that's what I meant by contextual.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-06-2013, 03:09 AM
Updated: I added a new section entitled "New Moves/Abilities" which discusses things such as a cover system, "reverse blending," throwing objects as distractions, and fake surrendering. I reason why I think they're beneficial and how I think most fall into the core gameplay loop, enhance the gameplay loop in logical ways (rather than wonky bomb crafting menus or RTS elements) and how other types of stealth, not just social stealth, should play a role in AC since they pretty much have since AC2/ACB (the cover system for example)

I also discussed in another bullet point how the day and night cycle should affect more things because as of now...day and night is literally an aesthetic change. I'm currently foruing ideas on how to give both day and night different pros and cons so I'll update that point when I have some more ideas. In the mean time, feel free to share your thoughts on my newest additions, to any of my previous points, or to share your own ideas. Remember, leave out any talk of specific locations or settings and try and keep it to mechanics and elements such as outfits or cheats. That said, if you have an idea for a mechanic that is intrinsically tied to a setting, you should also post that. For example, a game in Feudal Japan could make use of new mechanics that were methods employed by ninjas such as Hitsuke which was the practice of setting fire in one area as a distraction to lure guards from the intended point of entry. A feudal Japan AC game could make use of this by having wooden items we could set fire to around the city (similar to those wooden structures in AC/AC2/ACB/ACR that we could throw people into. In fact, it could be those very things again only now, if you approach it and INTERACT with them, you'd light them on fire, luring any nearby guards from their posts. That's a mechanic that could be used in any AC but is mostly tied to the ninja and thus would work best with a Feudal Japan setting. But try and keep that to a minimum.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-06-2013, 05:42 AM
I LOVE the ideas on customization.

thanks! I'm always a big fan of customization in games. Multiple outfits, outfit customizations, the more the merrier.

xMorgothx2012
12-06-2013, 02:43 PM
AssassinHMS, I don't get this crap about "AC hasn't been AC for a long time now." You can still take out multiple people in AC1, they were just slow and stupid about it. There was no stealth whatsoever, except in a certain group of NPCs and Navigation has only improved since AC1.

So it's still the same thing since AC1. I get you're trying to "improve" AC, but to say it hasn't been the same for a long time now is completely ridiculous.

Looks like we are at odds when it comes to alot of things. First of all downgrading someones opinion by saying it is crap is a great move worthy of applause. I totally get what he says because this transcendes simple gameplay features. Assassin's Creed had a great concept and instead of expanding on it and making it better, which was what people basically asked for at the time, it was abandoned and thrown to the wayside in favor of a more cinematic experience. What am I talking about here? For example sneaking up on Vieri di Pazzi is perfectly possible. You sneak up behind him get ready for the kill, cutscene triggers that forces your detection and into open combat, absolutely infuriating. AC never did this and it was better of for that. Instead if players were really good they could sneak in, take out the target and get out undetected although a city wide alarm was ringing. Also AC had an idea about what work was necessary to prepare for an assassination. While I agree with everybody that this part wasn't done very well and parts of it were outright ridiculous (looking at you flag race for information), this was the area of the game that needed improving and not to be removed because it was a brilliant idea that just lacked likewise execution. Instead since AC2 you get everything simply handed to you. Oh allright there is a tailing mission here and there but that is really about it.

And than there is the money. I loath the integration of money into the franchise with a hot fiery passion. Why do I do this? Because there is NOTHING, NOTHING at all that calls the assassin's kill for a higher purpose more into question than this. It taints everything in this regard. I have heard alot of others say this as well. The assassination contracts do not make me feel like and Assassin in the sense of the one that follows the creed, but it makes me feel like a mercenary or hitman. Am I really suppossed to trust that killing for the Medicis is for a higher cause just because I get a letter from Lorenzo telling me that this is so. I don't believe it at all. And Brotherhood itself strenghtens that view that indeed it can't be trusted by the scene in which Lucrezia tells you what Lorenzo had done to the rest of the Pazzi family that were not involved in the conspiracy. Not to say that the economy system in Assassin's Creed is so base and so ridiculous that it is nothing more than a tool to generate limitless income and in that sense I would definitely like to see it removed again. Oh yes I would like that. It is unnecessary fluff and as such it should disappear from a franchise that has become unnecessarily bloated with stuff that has nothing to do with being an Assassin. I do not want to be a mogul who basically owns Rome. The whole notion is silly, not to say that it runs counter to the Assassins being in the shadows of society. I really would like this game to change again from being "Do random stuff" Creed to Assassin's Creed again. Focus this game on being an Assassin again as the franchise title suggests.

The idea of optional objectives in the main missions isn't something I like all that much as well, especially when it comes to the method how you assassinate. It hampers player creativity or it forces them away from there preffered approach. Also I don't like the idea that you get 100% synchronisation this way suggesting that Ezio, Connor, Edward were basically perfect human beings and nothing EVER went wrong when they carried out their missions. That too is a ridiculous notion.

As for new ideas, how about not knowing who your main targets are for a change and instead have an anonymous group of templars we first need to find through investigative work of events that may point to templar activity. And with this I mean not that you get a list of names but you investigate individual persons and find out whether they have connections to the templars or not. I personally think it is a mistake that the targets you chase are always known to you, let them be unknown for once.

MnemonicSyntax
12-06-2013, 06:35 PM
Looks like we are at odds when it comes to alot of things. First of all downgrading someones opinion by saying it is crap is a great move worthy of applause. I totally get what he says because this transcendes simple gameplay features. Assassin's Creed had a great concept and instead of expanding on it and making it better, which was what people basically asked for at the time, it was abandoned and thrown to the wayside in favor of a more cinematic experience. What am I talking about here? For example sneaking up on Vieri di Pazzi is perfectly possible. You sneak up behind him get ready for the kill, cutscene triggers that forces your detection and into open combat, absolutely infuriating. AC never did this and it was better of for that. Instead if players were really good they could sneak in, take out the target and get out undetected although a city wide alarm was ringing. Also AC had an idea about what work was necessary to prepare for an assassination. While I agree with everybody that this part wasn't done very well and parts of it were outright ridiculous (looking at you flag race for information), this was the area of the game that needed improving and not to be removed because it was a brilliant idea that just lacked likewise execution. Instead since AC2 you get everything simply handed to you. Oh allright there is a tailing mission here and there but that is really about it.

And than there is the money. I loath the integration of money into the franchise with a hot fiery passion. Why do I do this? Because there is NOTHING, NOTHING at all that calls the assassin's kill for a higher purpose more into question than this. It taints everything in this regard. I have heard alot of others say this as well. The assassination contracts do not make me feel like and Assassin in the sense of the one that follows the creed, but it makes me feel like a mercenary or hitman. Am I really suppossed to trust that killing for the Medicis is for a higher cause just because I get a letter from Lorenzo telling me that this is so. I don't believe it at all. And Brotherhood itself strenghtens that view that indeed it can't be trusted by the scene in which Lucrezia tells you what Lorenzo had done to the rest of the Pazzi family that were not involved in the conspiracy. Not to say that the economy system in Assassin's Creed is so base and so ridiculous that it is nothing more than a tool to generate limitless income and in that sense I would definitely like to see it removed again. Oh yes I would like that. It is unnecessary fluff and as such it should disappear from a franchise that has become unnecessarily bloated with stuff that has nothing to do with being an Assassin. I do not want to be a mogul who basically owns Rome. The whole notion is silly, not to say that it runs counter to the Assassins being in the shadows of society. I really would like this game to change again from being "Do random stuff" Creed to Assassin's Creed again. Focus this game on being an Assassin again as the franchise title suggests.

The idea of optional objectives in the main missions isn't something I like all that much as well, especially when it comes to the method how you assassinate. It hampers player creativity or it forces them away from there preffered approach. Also I don't like the idea that you get 100% synchronisation this way suggesting that Ezio, Connor, Edward were basically perfect human beings and nothing EVER went wrong when they carried out their missions. That too is a ridiculous notion.

As for new ideas, how about not knowing who your main targets are for a change and instead have an anonymous group of templars we first need to find through investigative work of events that may point to templar activity. And with this I mean not that you get a list of names but you investigate individual persons and find out whether they have connections to the templars or not. I personally think it is a mistake that the targets you chase are always known to you, let them be unknown for once.

You're the guy that laughed at me when I told you to go to Support for "serious assistance."

But sure, yeah. Point out how I called some guy's opinion crap, when it's really just a figure of speech though. Good one!

LMAO to the max.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-06-2013, 11:53 PM
Calm down everybody. This is supposed to be a friendly discussion! Just let people post their ideas, comment with constructive criticism.

To be fair... I see both sides to this:

You could always kill multiple people in AC, including the first one. It was just long and drawn out and you essentially had no offensive moves. So that much, IMO has changed for the better. I believe in AC3/4 we have the best combat to date. AC1 and AC2 combat was too slow. ACB and ACR combat was too fast and too easy where pretty much one button could and would mow down like 20 guys in seconds. AC3 and I believe AC4 have made the combat the most balanced. You still can chain moves together but there are multiple enemy types who will counter your chain kill and must be dealt with in different ways which now means you have to make use of multiple buttons to deal with enemies. I personally think this style of combat is best as it's somewhat challenging but also not slow and tedious like AC1/2. Nor is it so swift and ridiculously one sides as ACB/R.

That said... AC1 really tried to make you feel like an Assassin by having you eavesdrop and gain intel, beat someone up for intel, etc. It was just tedious, boring, and some of them were silly "collect flags for information even though I'm an Assassin as well." Tailing missions have been in the series but for the most part, yes, AC has been kind of swept into it's own mythology and since AC2, has started to lose sight of the original game's goal. AC2 is still my favorite but we lost having the ability to set up the Assassination we want.

Imagine being able to infiltrate an area at the time of day we choose: day or night, making use of different factors we have learned, etc. You could storm in and kill every guard and the target of course, or you could go around the city for optional clues on how to take the target out... I liked the static and moving eavesdrops from AC3...they felt less restrictive than the ones in AC1. That said... I still feel that all the games, regardless of execution, have felt like an Assassin's Creed game. 4 is currently the only one I haven't been super pumped about and that's partially due to the letdown of AC3's gameplay being lackluster, Desmond's story, and the fact that pirates haven't really interested me since the first Pirates of the Caribbean film came out. Not that I dislike them...pirates ARE cool but, I wasn't excited to see AC go to that time period especially since it's not too far removed from Haytham and Connor's time. I've loved that each major installment had been a wildly different time and setting but AC4 disregarded that and went to a similar time period. Sure the Caribbean is a lot prettier than frontier America but still. Regardless... I want this to be a friendly conversation. I'm sure many people could find faults with my ideas so if you want a friendly debate...by all means debate away... but please do so politely.

xMorgothx2012
12-07-2013, 01:29 AM
You are right Bob lets keep it civil.

I don't really think the tedium in AC actually came from the info gathering tasks because those are done fairly quickly and I find they are not as much of a yawner when you have done all the side stuff. I think the tedium came from having to rescue all those civilians because as you said fighting of those guards was quite a slog and synchronizing way to many viewpoints per district. That got boring or annoying pretty quickly.

As for what you said about AC4. I love this game as an open world pirate game but at the same time I think it makes the worst entry as an Assassin's Creed yet and compared to the pirate content everything to do with being an Assassin is quite lackluster.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-07-2013, 01:50 AM
You are right Bob lets keep it civil.

I don't really think the tedium in AC actually came from the info gathering tasks because those are done fairly quickly and I find they are not as much of a yawner when you have done all the side stuff. I think the tedium came from having to rescue all those civilians because as you said fighting of those guards was quite a slog and synchronizing way to many viewpoints per district. That got boring or annoying pretty quickly.

As for what you said about AC4. I love this game as an open world pirate game but at the same time I think it makes the worst entry as an Assassin's Creed yet and compared to the pirate content everything to do with being an Assassin is quite lackluster.

Indeed. It'll be the first AC game I haven't gotten at or near release. AC1 -- got it for Christmas, AC2 -- got it for Christmas, ACB -- got it for Christmas, ACR-- got it for Christmas, AC3 -- got it on release because I pre-ordered it from Best Buy to get the steelbook. AC4 I won't be getting for awhile. This, to be fair, is mostly due to wanting to get next gen versions of games instead of the current gen versions but I also haven't felt the same feeling of really WANTING to play it because, well, pirates don't interest me as much as being an Assassin in AC.

It does look fun though and I hope the story is good. I sincerely hope AC5 learns from every past game and increases both customization (so we can unequip items that we dislike) and enchances the core gameplay mechanics such as social stealth and brings the emphasis back to land-based navigation, parkour, and assassination. I also REALLY hope the setting is NOT the 1700s nor later. I want early 1600s max or earlier. I'm tired of flintlocks and muskets.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-07-2013, 02:10 AM
Should AC keep it's automatic cover system but simply allow you to enter into cover that's lower meaning you'll crouch behind it or should it have a dedicated cover button that allows you to enter cover at your own discretion? I find the auto-cover system to be wonky at times (for instance I want to step away and then run up the wall but can't because I keep entering the cover again) but I'd like to know.

MnemonicSyntax
12-07-2013, 02:22 AM
Should AC keep it's automatic cover system but simply allow you to enter into cover that's lower meaning you'll crouch behind it or should it have a dedicated cover button that allows you to enter cover at your own discretion? I find the auto-cover system to be wonky at times (for instance I want to step away and then run up the wall but can't because I keep entering the cover again) but I'd like to know.

I dunno about a button. But, I did come up with an idea:

My suggestion was, why not allow a crouch to happen for a few seconds between stalking zones? Put the chances of being detected while crouched at half, and just continue to crouch until you get to the next zone, or until say, 3 seconds is over with.

If you leave a blended party of people, you'll notice you'll remain blended as you walk away for a few seconds. That should be implemented with a crouch/stealth option when going between zones, especially considering how close some stalking zones are.

If there is a button, make the crouch do something, like put being detected at half possibility or something similar, like the Stealth Outfit.

Wolfmeister1010
12-07-2013, 02:26 AM
Or allow you to crouch behind low objects. With the current control scheme, there are two buttons that could be a crouch button. One controls location info..so that is not really needed, and the other doesn't do anything on land.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
12-07-2013, 02:49 AM
Working on possible controls but I didn't finish it because I have things to do. Anyway, that's why it's unfinished haha

Leave ideas and suggestions of what good controls could be.

HOE_AH
02-01-2014, 05:59 AM
Equipment
I would like to see a return of the hookblade from Revelations, because that thing was cool, climb faster, hook and run past gaurds, counter steal, ziplines, all that cool stuff.

I also think it would be cool to improve the rope dart to where it can be used as a grappling hook or give us a grappling hook. It could be used as a catch back tool. because we've we've all experienced that accidental leap into desychronization. And it could also add a new and exciting way of running around, Imagine swinging around from building to building. I just think that would be cool and add a new twist the parkour aspect of assassins creed.

I really would like to have a large arsenal of weapons to choose from for different strategies and tactics

Gameplay
I think optional objectives with different strategies would be cool. Example; Stealth objective: kill 5 guards with out being detected Assassin objective: air assassinate 2 guards Combat objective: combo kill 4 guards.
Im tired of tail missions. Make a new type of mission please with a point other than follow this guy than sneak up and stab him, make it challenging in a puzzle kind of way
Also let me kill civilians, i know that sounds bad but after i beat the game i enjoy creating a pile of civilians who stared at me the wrong way XD punish me with increased notoriety or something, or as an unlockable cheat have it where i can kill them without being desychronized

Zafar1981
02-01-2014, 09:07 AM
I really like your post and its an important issue as well. I also want to put my ideas they might oppose lots of friends but that is what I like because I played every AC game and I want the next game to be as I desire.

First of all I also want RT+A for climbing mechanics and if you want a vertical leap you need to press A back in the navigation system. To be honest that pressing RT only button really affect our game play. Its always happen in AC 3 and 4 I want the player to run horizontally but with this RT button being pressed the player automatically climb any humped area or surface. Its really annoyed me and I am sure lots of friends also faces the same problem.

Secondly I want some group of people who can assist you blending in the crowd just like the monks in AC 1. I am not saying that they should be monks but could be a group of people ranging from 6 to 10. It really look awkward that the player is hiding in prostitute, being the only male in a group of female. Our hero is not a gay. The groups of prostitute, thieves and mercenaries can only be used to distract any unwanted guard or guards. When the player is in the hiding group the color should't be black & white.

Thirdly I want all the actions in the game either throwing coin or distracting through people should be a core element in side mission. For Example you are going to assassinate a contract target and you have the option to distract the guards by throwing coins near to them which make the target venerable.

Fourthly I want the AI of not only guards or solders highly coded but also of all the NPC's. Man what they are doing there in the area. They should response differently from each other when something happen not instead of running before you. I am saying this because might not be the game this year but the game coming next year would be only on Next Gen console and the developer have no excuse that they are running out of resources.

Fifth I want the customization of outfit and armor in the game. I want to chose a hood from 4 to 5 different types, Cloths of different designs, Shoes of different shapes and also dye each of the individual part like I want. Its not a very difficult thing, this is what we can do in Fable 2 which came in 2008. Armor of different type and for different part of body like in Ezio trilogy. And you need to do some special mission to achieve an ultimate armor.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
02-01-2014, 10:25 AM
I really like your post and its an important issue as well. I also want to put my ideas they might oppose lots of friends but that is what I like because I played every AC game and I want the next game to be as I desire.

First of all I also want RT+A for climbing mechanics and if you want a vertical leap you need to press A back in the navigation system. To be honest that pressing RT only button really affect our game play. Its always happen in AC 3 and 4 I want the player to run horizontally but with this RT button being pressed the player automatically climb any humped area or surface. Its really annoyed me and I am sure lots of friends also faces the same problem.

Exactly. They can keep RT only for simply running/sprinting. So rather than holding RT for a jog and then holding RT+A for a sprint and climbing... RT is used for any type of faster movement ranging from a casual jog to the full blown sprint. The only difference is that holding RT by itself would never cause you to accidentally climb anything as you'd have to hold A with it to initiate the climb.


Secondly I want some group of people who can assist you blending in the crowd just like the monks in AC 1. I am not saying that they should be monks but could be a group of people ranging from 6 to 10. It really look awkward that the player is hiding in prostitute, being the only male in a group of female. Our hero is not a gay. The groups of prostitute, thieves and mercenaries can only be used to distract any unwanted guard or guards. When the player is in the hiding group the color should't be black & white.

The next protagonist could be gay... but anyway, I don't think being gay has anything to do with it... he could be a client. He simply needs to not stand there looking ominous. It needs to look like he's flirting with them and actually interested in them. Ezio always just seemed so stoic in the middle of a group of ladies who had their chests half out which goes against his established character. Besides, the new Assassin doesn't have to be a womanizing person for real, he simply has to act like it to avoid suspicion. It goes along with simply having more animations while blending so you really get the sense that he's acting like everyone else.


Fifth I want the customization of outfit and armor in the game. I want to chose a hood from 4 to 5 different types, Cloths of different designs, Shoes of different shapes and also dye each of the individual part like I want. Its not a very difficult thing, this is what we can do in Fable 2 which came in 2008. Armor of different type and for different part of body like in Ezio trilogy. And you need to do some special mission to achieve an ultimate armor. [/QUOTE]

Yup! Like I've said before in multiple threads -- I'd love to be able to choose from hoods with beaks, hoods without beaks, hoods that have a small oval opening like Altair, hoods that are more open/the standard type of hood on robes, etc. Outfit/armor customization is just a pretty much standard element in third person action/adventure games.

Hans684
02-07-2014, 04:41 PM
No. AC doesn't need to turn into Hitman with all of the disguises. They just need to give us a target and allow us several ways of performing an assassination: do you use the crowd of people to enter the area and move from crowd to crowd before jumping up onto the stage to kill him dramatically? Do you move from crowd to crowd, wait for him to finish his speech and wait for him to enter the crowd and then quietly stab him from behind with the hidden blade and casually walk away before anyone notices? Do you utilize the roofs and climb to the top, taking out the roof guards and then shooting him from up above? Do you air assassinate him from the roof? Do you call your Assassins to help and storm the gates and battle the guards in an open brawl and then kill the target? Do you wait for him to move close to a bench and plan your attack for when you're sitting there to kill him quickly and then sit him down on the same bench?
Disguises and a blend mechanic like the one from Hitman Absolution isn't really necessary. AC has it's crowd mechanic that it just needs to do more with.

It kinda have, AC Libeation and every mission in a disguise. -_- With disguises there will be even more options on ways of performing assassinations. What is needed is not up to either of us.