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Aza404
11-26-2013, 02:49 PM
Brought to you by SimonV

Hey guys! Time to reveal what you can expect from Five Towers.

You can expect cards that support the strategies found in Forgotten Wars. We wanted to have some continuity with the previous set. You might remember with Inferno, we had a heavy discard theme with Ignatius and some fortunes. This time we have this guy:

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/Fate_Bender.png

He’s a decent creature on his own, but when you get your opponent to discard, he can become pretty dangerous for his cost.


Sanctuary had a theme of self-bouncing. While it may be a tricky theme to build a whole deck around, it does have the potential to stand on its own, especially with new cards like this one:

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/Silver_bowl_spirit.png

This early drop may not be aggressive, but it can block one or more attacks, go back to your hand and get redeployed to defend. Also note that this is a melee shooter, meaning that it can be deployed anywhere like a flyer, and has the ability to attack like a shooter (though it doesn’t have immune to retaliation).


Stronghold had some good ambush creatures and we wanted to continue with this idea, but instead of dealing damage, we did this:

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/Suicide_goblin.png

So this guy kills anything that deploys in front… Not bad huh! Of course, you’ve got to sacrifice your Goblin, but Kelthor doesn’t mind.


The Crusaders though, they do mind about their general health. They like being at full health in fact:

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/Crusader_sargeant.png

Now it makes even more sense to heal your units! Haven needed to get cards that support mid-game and long game plans. This guy does it in spades.


On the opposite side of the spectrum, we’ll get the Plague Bearer, who cares only for sickness.

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/plague_bearer.png

With enough poison in play, this beast could be free! Now Necro has a use for all those poison counters lying around… well, other than slowly killing your opponent.


And finally we get an Academy fortune that’s all about ongoing spells.

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/crimson_bond.png

With this, you can fetch the card you need for “free”. It’s fairly easy to splash in any deck with its requirements too!


Stay tuned to the forums, more information on the Five Towers themselves is coming!

Banehollow89
11-26-2013, 02:56 PM
Wow, thank you. Must say, I expected something good for Inferno and Necro, since they didn't exactly get anything good last expansion, and... something GOOD I've got!
That Inferno guy is sick, it is 4-2-5 creature if you are playing discard deck, I love it.
And combined with Decay Spitters and other poison creatures, Plague Bearers can be amazing(these guys are Necro's Tainted Orcs, really strong, high damage units, somehting Necro really lacked).

Looking forward to more!

SiberiaCloud
11-26-2013, 03:05 PM
The new Haven monster is going to be so strong in Alia. O________________________O

doubtofbuddha
11-26-2013, 03:13 PM
Fate Binder is good. On curve for his stats and the ability is pretty great, particularly late-game in Dham.

Silver Bowl Spirit is a pretty good wall for Sanctuary control decks, if those end up being a thing.

Suicide Goblin gives your opponent too many choices. It is fun but I would not consider it good.

Crusader Sergeant is too expensive and too reliant on you having undamaged units on the board. The instances where its ability is useful are going to be so small that I am pretty sure it is not worth playing.

I am on the fence about Plague Bearer. It could be quite good, but it is poor unless you are getting it at a discounted price. So I am going to leave it as a wait and see.

I am sure Crimson Bond will have a place in decks eventually, but it depends a lot on if enchant creature spells are any good.

Boom752
11-26-2013, 03:14 PM
That Plague Bearer looks awesome ! Maybe you can get it as early as turn 3 :p

MissiNick
11-26-2013, 03:15 PM
Very interesting stuff!!!

Already waiting for the next spoiler :cool:

PengthePenguin
11-26-2013, 03:20 PM
So, 2/2/5 shooter for 3 resources with potential +2 attack increase. Compare that to say.... a regular 2/2/5 with no ability at all? It's like the Sayama Stalker all over again, long live the powercreep! :p

AlbelV
11-26-2013, 03:23 PM
Crimson Bond! Am I the only one who think it's overpowered? 0 cost with the potential (most probably) to do 4 damage PLUS having to get the specific card into your hand

PengthePenguin
11-26-2013, 03:26 PM
0 cost with the potential (most probably) to do 4 damage PLUS having to get the specific card into your hand

No, you're mistaken. It deals damage to YOUR hero, meaning you're going to suffer four damage for drawing that Icy Weapon from your library. Trash card, I'd say. If it allowed you to use the card for free / lowered price, it would maybe be playable.

Malvass
11-26-2013, 03:27 PM
Crimson Bond! Am I the only one who think it's overpowered? 0 cost with the potential (most probably) to do 4 damage PLUS having to get the specific card into your hand

4 damage to your hero* that's why it isn't definitely overopowered.

Overall, I like the new cards. Interesting!

Banehollow89
11-26-2013, 03:30 PM
Crimson Bond! Am I the only one who think it's overpowered? 0 cost with the potential (most probably) to do 4 damage PLUS having to get the specific card into your hand
Depends, but I can see it being used for Enthrall quite a lot. It is 5 damage, but getting Enthrall into hand early can be quite good, especially because you will have high magic level because of your creatures and playing Enthrall on some strong creatures at turn 5-6 can cause problems to the opponent.

PengthePenguin
11-26-2013, 03:40 PM
Depends, but I can see it being used for Enthrall quite a lot. It is 5 damage, but getting Enthrall into hand early can be quite good, especially because you will have high magic level because of your creatures and playing Enthrall on some strong creatures at turn 5-6 can cause problems to the opponent.

That's highly unlikely. You could always just pick an Enthrall instead of this... Crimson Bond and the odds will remain the same. With both Puppet Masters and Enthralls in your deck, it's not likely that you'd actually have ANY use for this card... Unless there are some really nasty creature enchants in the next set ;)

S0YxSauCe
11-26-2013, 03:43 PM
crusader S looks like a crap

Kinetic_42
11-26-2013, 03:48 PM
Fate Binder is good. On curve for his stats and the ability is pretty great, particularly late-game in Dham.

Silver Bowl Spirit is a pretty good wall for Sanctuary control decks, if those end up being a thing.

Suicide Goblin gives your opponent too many choices. It is fun but I would not consider it good.

Crusader Sergeant is too expensive and too reliant on you having undamaged units on the board. The instances where its ability is useful are going to be so small that I am pretty sure it is not worth playing.

I am on the fence about Plague Bearer. It could be quite good, but it is poor unless you are getting it at a discounted price. So I am going to leave it as a wait and see.

I am sure Crimson Bond will have a place in decks eventually, but it depends a lot on if enchant creature spells are any good.

Agree on Fate, Spirit, Gobbo, and Crusader. Crimson Bond will be used in Gazel decks definitely, and will probably be seen in other spell/stall decks. Academy has several creatures that benefit from enchant spells as well.

Plague Bearer is not an early game creature, its a mid-to-late game value drop for necro. Necro has few ways of dropping poison early to make him viable before turn 5. I can see him being splashed in instead of Soul Consuming Liches to perform mostly the same role. Issue being, If necro get a better 3-drop creature with infect (Plague Zombie is mediocre at best), this will see a decent amount of play. Decay Spiders alone though are not enough to justify this yet though.

VampFury
11-26-2013, 04:08 PM
Nice spoilers Aza, thank you :)

There are some good cards and some bad, but I am just not that excited to see yet another tutor. How many tutors this game really needs?

Dipl0mate
11-26-2013, 04:21 PM
I might be the only one but I like the crusader guy xD

I mean just him in the current meta looks bad, but there is definitly something to do if 5 Towers brings one more cost efficient haven guy (please a shooter), for maybe 4 resources, we might build something..

blzzrd89
11-26-2013, 04:47 PM
With enough poison in play, this beast could be free! Now Necro has a use for all those poison counters lying around… well, other than slowly killing your opponent.
Infect ability is highly overpriced, so good Necropolis players dont play any infect creatures other than decay spitter. And this one have stats like 4/3/7 Tainted orc for 4 resources.
Previous expansion had none useful card for the Necropolis, so now it is one of the weakest faction. And it doesnt seems like we will have any good card in new expansion if MMDOC team will continue to focus Necropolis's strategy around infect creatures.
In short: Infect creatures should be rebalanced (or abandoned at all).

Hantziie
11-26-2013, 04:54 PM
The sanctuary one is a joke right?

Baduruu
11-26-2013, 04:58 PM
The sanctuary one is a joke right?

i think sanctuary will be getting a round of cards akin to what necro saw in FW. although it looks like those cards can get some use just out of the plague bearer now. I never saw the bounce aspect of sanctuary all too useful or consistent, hopefully this new set changes that. but as is this common for sanctuary is meh.

maybe Shalan will see more consistency with what he does.

PengthePenguin
11-26-2013, 05:07 PM
In short: Infect creatures should be rebalanced (or abandoned at all).

Agree. And I'm quite sure the Bounce- mechanism is going to end up just like Infect judging by the new sanctuary creature.


although it looks like those cards can get some use just out of the plague bearer now.

I don't believe there's ever going to be anything that can make Putrid Ghoul or Rotting Zombie viable :/

Freyjan
11-26-2013, 05:24 PM
Crimson Bond will be used in Gazel decks definitely, and will probably be seen in other spell/stall decks.

I definitely disagree about Crimson Bond seeing play in Gazal. She already has a hard time dealing with rush decks. It is very unlikely that spending 5 life to find something like Enthrall will be a good play in a lot of matchups. Also by the time you can start using Enthralls and Puppetmasters you are very likely to have already drawn one, and things like her ability and Spell Steal allow her to get enough added value.

Plague Bearer will possibly see some play, but it's certainly no Tainted Orc. It's still better than the garbage necro got in FW but that isn't saying much.

The Haven creature is garbage, plain and simple.

Goblin is nifty but rarely what Stronghold decks what to be doing. Same with the sanctuary creature. I like the design space on both but I don't really know what type of deck would need either.

I'm a big fan of Fate Bender, and I do have some ideas of how I would like to use Crimson Bond for sure.

Neat spoilers overall though, can't wait to see more.

klaount
11-26-2013, 05:30 PM
Nothing impressive yet, except the fortune, that could open some interesting options. I really hope this expansion introduces more great fortunes because the game needs them imo.

szczotas94
11-26-2013, 05:41 PM
I don't believe there's ever going to be anything that can make Putrid Ghoul or Rotting Zombie viable :/

Be pantient, we saw only 7 cards from new exp. yet :D Don't lose hope!

kkfuti
11-26-2013, 05:45 PM
The sanctuary one is a joke right?


I think it's great. Recently I started a thread about how most factions have just 1 viable cost 1 creatures, and how adding more viable ones (not for rush, but for general utility, and specially worth including in a deck) would help a lot with first turn disadvantage (as you can increase your chances of getting a 1 cost creatures without including garbage in the deck). Personally I think that Sanctuary didn't need one as much as other factions (I hope Necro and Haven got some love here as they're really limited in that), but this one loos great.

4 life points (meaning it survives most things that anyone can throw for the first 3 turns to clean weal creatures) for 1 mana, and the ability to save it when it's nearly dead, and then for 1 resource deploy it in another row wih its 4 life points? Yes thanks. This one can stop some rushes by itself. I think Ishuma just got better as now he should be able to counter faster rushes and this one can protect your Sayama for a couple of rounds before you replace it. As a Necro player I'm really fearing the potential this one has.

With the Plague Bearer's inclusion, I hope Necro got some 1 cost creature too, like some kind of 1 HP, cannot attack, putrid spore that applies Poison2 to row when it dies. Something like that could spice things and make Plague Bearer viable as just Spitters aren't enough to make him playable. Maybe Nergal could help him, though I don't see that .

The Inferno shooter is great too, as someone said, it breaks the game with power creep a bit when at least 2 shooters with no mechanics and same stats costs the same (and 1 magic and 1 destiny is what most heroes start with anyway, so it doesn't justify the +2 attack). Ignatius for example got really strong with this as he will already focus on heavy discard and he already matches the Magic and Destiny requeriments.

The others I'm not sure. The Goblin can be killed with a 1 cost creature, the Haven guy costs a lot, and the mechanics to heal all creatures cost a lot too, so it's really for laaaaate game I think. The Academy Fortune has some uses.

I'm getting excited with these reveals, I hope we got some more comming soon!!

D3cado
11-26-2013, 05:46 PM
Maybe Poison cloud will have some use :) with MoN this new necro creature seems good.

PengthePenguin
11-26-2013, 06:17 PM
4 life points (meaning it survives most things that anyone can throw for the first 3 turns to clean weal creatures) for 1 mana, and the ability to save it when it's nearly dead, and then for 1 resource deploy it in another row wih its 4 life points? Yes thanks. This one can stop some rushes by itself. I think Ishuma just got better as now he should be able to counter faster rushes and this one can protect your Sayama for a couple of rounds before you replace it. As a Necro player I'm really fearing the potential this one has.

If they do something about DAs, then maybe. In the current meta this card wouldn't see much use, as most of the decks are rush decks with lots of 2 and 4 attack creatures (Dark Assasins, Black Vultures, Sayama Stalkers, 1-drops, etc).

Hommit
11-26-2013, 06:31 PM
Sanc dosnt't need more buff, its the other way around :/
Already every card in their deck have outmaneuvre, hypnotize or ambush, or even 2 of them at the same time. It's just too much! And i don't even go for Raya, which is the most OP fw card (out of other uniques too)


Maybe Poison cloud will have some use
no :( u must have 4 magic for that then 4 might for creature itself. only then maybe... And zombie/ghoul is still one of the most useless cards

That inferno guy is very good

Wikist
11-26-2013, 06:34 PM
Is anyone saw that Fate Beder don't have addiotion "till the end of turn"? Maybe he will get bonus attack permamently and we can have 6 attack when he will be able to attack (put him on battleground then discard card, then in next turn discard card again, he could have 6 dmg).

Banehollow89
11-26-2013, 06:35 PM
Be pantient, we saw only 7 cards from new exp. yet :D Don't lose hope!
I think this too, I mean people are too fast to jump on conclusion. I don't say that they will work, but they maybe introduce some cards which will make them viable. And new Necro creature looks quite solid for Life for Life card, because it costs 6, and can kill most of the creatures that are being played right now.

Ariana deck with Plague Bearers, Poison Cloud and Might of the Nature sounds solid. :D


Is anyone saw that Fate Beder don't have addiotion "till the end of turn"? Maybe he will get bonus attack permamently and we can have 6 attack when he will be able to attack (put him on battleground then discard card, then in next turn discard card again, he could have 6 dmg).
I seriously doubt it. I mean, it must be a mistake that they didn't state the "until the end of turn", but if it stacks, it will be grossly overpowered.

PengthePenguin
11-26-2013, 06:44 PM
I don't say that they will work, but they maybe introduce some cards which will make them viable. And new Necro creature looks quite solid for Life for Life card, because it costs 6, and can kill most of the creatures that are being played right now.

So, sacrificing a tainted orc and using 4 mana to kill something with the cost of 6 or less is supposed to be effective? :D Doesn't really convince me as long as Necro has access to both Soulreaver and Banshee.

AscendoO
11-26-2013, 07:07 PM
The necro creature reveal already destroyed any kind of hype for me. Its so bad its not even funny.

Guferus
11-26-2013, 07:42 PM
Its not, he comes a next round right after decay spitter and is quite a strong drop. Beside we dont know what will we get for the other cards. Maybe previous expansion intensionally weak for necro was just a foundation for something that will finally make poison strategy viable. Wont be easy, as much as making any kind of heal strategy for haven good enough. Well lets just wait.
Inferno guy seems like a quite a strong addition for Ignatius. Haven dude is very interesting. Also suicide ambus, rude ; D

Mormekill
11-26-2013, 07:58 PM
That Haven guy looks worthless. I you tried to get us excited with this card, sorry, but you have failed miserably.

Crimson84
11-26-2013, 08:45 PM
I really like this sergeant! A bit expensive but in mid or late game can be very strong

Banehollow89
11-26-2013, 09:18 PM
So, sacrificing a tainted orc and using 4 mana to kill something with the cost of 6 or less is supposed to be effective? :D Doesn't really convince me as long as Necro has access to both Soulreaver and Banshee.

What?

First, sacrificing Tainted Orc to kill something that is equal strength or even stronger if it is unique is quite effective, especially if that Tainted Orc already attacked few times and payed for itself. You can even kill lesser targets if you need to finish the game. Second, if you are playing Fortune based Necro(which OBVIOUSLY you will with Life for Life), you won't have Soulreaver and you will need quite a time to get Banshee because of Magic requirement... Most of the Fortune Based Necro Decks are 5-1-4 since the Banshee nerf and they aren't that great since then, but hey who knows, maybe they introduce something that will make all of this great or at least playable.

Your level of skepticism worries me.

PengthePenguin
11-26-2013, 09:30 PM
What?

First, sacrificing Tainted Orc to kill something that is equal strength or even stronger if it is unique is quite effective, especially if that Tainted Orc already attacked few times and payed for itself. You can even kill lesser targets if you need to finish the game. Second, if you are playing Fortune based Necro(which OBVIOUSLY you will with Life for Life), you won't have Soulreaver and you will need quite a time to get Banshee because of Magic requirement... Most of the Fortune Based Necro Decks are 5-1-4 since the Banshee nerf and they aren't that great since then, but hey who knows, maybe they introduce something that will make all of this great or at least playable.

Your level of skepticism worries me.

It's not about being skeptical, I'm just doing the math for you. Life for a Life is a 4-cost version of Sacrificial Altar with 4 fortune requirements with some extra utility (the sacrificed creature can be low hp, as you said). And as you said, Banshee nerf killed Fortune Necro decks (which weren't that popular to begin with, gj devs). Judging by the cards I've seen this far, I don't see any potential in fortune necro decks. I agree with you on the fact that they MIGHT actually introduce something that makes these cards/combos useful.

historicmuffin
11-26-2013, 10:10 PM
http://i41.tinypic.com/2mn15b7.jpg

And

http://www.mmdoc.net/images/cards/normal/Poison-Cloud.png

Equals awesomeness.

Reepacheep
11-26-2013, 10:27 PM
Fate Bender seems a little op to me. Each turn your opponent discards a card +2? (Maybe +2 until the end of next turn, but +2 every turn if you play it right means he would get HUGE pretty fast.)

roanranger
11-26-2013, 10:35 PM
Personally, I already read it as until end of turn.

Think of it this way:
opponent discards - gain +2
start of next turn: opponent hasn't discarded anything, +2 bonus no longer triggers and goes away.

Same deal as Wolf Captain losing her bonus immediately when an adjacent creature disappears.

czwartek22
11-26-2013, 10:53 PM
On the other topic: once more kudos to the graphic department! Plague Bearer's and (especially) Crimson Bond's artworks are great!

elite_Husky
11-26-2013, 11:09 PM
Haven creature is worthless. 1 attack 5 drop creature?! Come on...
Not to mention no one will play 5 tier drop creatures when dark magic is on.

- Play commander
- puppet master
- ragequit

Enigmantine
11-26-2013, 11:38 PM
I'm gonna play dat 5 might 7/3/1 Haven card... with my vestals and sisters it's gonna be sick!!!
Eleonore, here i cummmm!
First you fill the board with imperial sentinels and elite squires, then sistah sistah.
Then boom suddenly you have that 5 might and all lanes full of sisters.
Then you firebolt 2 of your imperial sentinels or sunburst... cause well, your lanes will be so full... right?
Suddenly you look at your resources and see 10 resources, then you drop 2 of those, mega sister attack +2!!!!!
Or even better, you delay your combo 5 turns so you can level your magic to 4 and use MASS INNER FIRE.
It's. gonna. be. sick!
The only way Captain Gigori can stop this is with amazing topdecks!!!

And it's a rare huh?
I hope we're gonna be seeing lot's of those when opening packs, just like the other staple cards of my deck : Vestal and Turncoats.

ZergRusher
11-27-2013, 12:13 AM
1. You know that normal archer for 3 is 2/2/5 now you are giving us a shooter 2/2/5 for 3 with additional ability. That's power creeping.

2. Spirit - i don't know how i feel about the card except i like the artwork.

3. Goblin - we will see.

4. Sergeant - you need to lower the might requirement to 4

5. Bearer - it doesn't looks that strong but maybe some combo

6. Bond - Interesting

NoobFish
11-27-2013, 01:47 AM
1. You know that normal archer for 3 is 2/2/5 now you are giving us a shooter 2/2/5 for 3 with additional ability. That's power creeping.



Actually a 2/2/5 + ability for 3R and Req.: 3/1/1 would only complete a cycle that already exists. You can compare it to Cruisader Chaplain (http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/large/s03/s03_Cre_Hav_054.jpg).

Inferno just didn´t have a 2/2/5 for 3, yet. It is also rare, so it has to be a bit better than your common 2/2/5 shooter.

MT...
11-27-2013, 04:11 AM
Love all the cards. But would love to see some variation in requirements, not all just might. Take the fate weaver for example, 313. Maybe that new inferno unit can be 312 seeing as it is more orientated to fortunes anyways.

And on a side note. Make banshee also 613 unit instead of 63.

langkymouse2
11-27-2013, 07:01 AM
1. You know that normal archer for 3 is 2/2/5 now you are giving us a shooter 2/2/5 for 3 with additional ability. That's power creeping.



This. Another power creep card like Wolf Captain. No brainer choice for anyone who manages to get 4 of.

kkfuti
11-27-2013, 07:28 AM
Seeing the Sanctuary 1 drop, I'm thinking I'd love a similar creature stat (0-1-4, or even 0-1-3 or 0-0-4) and cost 1 for Necro, with something in the lines of "if this creature is attacked put 1 Poison Counter on the attacker creature", this way you can put it in front of enemy creatures in early turns and force them to dance around you (and as it's an "if attacked" effect instead of retaliation, it can affect DA). Necro could get some creatures to try to stop fast rushes as they tend to build slowly. A creature like that would help too to synergize with the new Plague Bearer. I wouldn't even mind a Might req of 2 as long as the cost is 1, as you get it on first turn most times anyway.


This. Another power creep card like Wolf Captain. No brainer choice for anyone who manages to get 4 of.


Yep, it needs either cost 4 or Might 4 (both would be too much, but one of them should be 4). The 1 Magic and 1 Destiny requeriments doesn't make any difference (and it's just a difference of 1 destiny as the 1 magic is there for Magic creature type) as heroes that exploit discargind already got both at 1 without extra investments. As it is, it's power creep (and at least Wolf Captain made Haven playable, Inferno already got many menacing creatures).

adsmeister
11-27-2013, 08:15 AM
Does the Fate Bender get the +2 permanently, or just for that turn?

Baduruu
11-27-2013, 08:27 AM
lols at all the powercreep trolls, :sigh: also whoever said fate bender will be a autoinclude in any inferno deck to those who manage to get 4 of them....this made me pee a little i laughed so hard. ok lets play xorm rush and include these....you are a smart player for sure.

ZergRusher
11-27-2013, 08:28 AM
Actually a 2/2/5 + ability for 3R and Req.: 3/1/1 would only complete a cycle that already exists. You can compare it to Cruisader Chaplain (http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/large/s03/s03_Cre_Hav_054.jpg).

Inferno just didn´t have a 2/2/5 for 3, yet. It is also rare, so it has to be a bit better than your common 2/2/5 shooter.

That's apples and oranges. You cannot compare a melee to a shooter. Chaplain is pretty balanced. 3r/3m - for this cost the best melee creature is War Oliphant - 2/2/7. Chaplain is 2/2/5 - so you're trading 2 HP for 2 abilities. He is rarely played because he blocks Phoenixes and they are OP and Necro is rarely seen nowadays.

The best 3R shooter is Centaur from Stronghold 3/2/4.

PengthePenguin
11-27-2013, 09:46 AM
lols at all the powercreep trolls, :sigh: also whoever said fate bender will be a autoinclude in any inferno deck to those who manage to get 4 of them....this made me pee a little i laughed so hard. ok lets play xorm rush and include these....you are a smart player for sure.

Well yea, there's no point in taking the Bender into a RUSH deck with no discarding effects. Other than that, it's clearly better than a regular 3-drop shooter. If you want something defensive, you'll use it over Caller of the Void (which is epic btw, so don't talk about rarities) even if you didn't have a single discard mechanism in your deck.


The best 3R shooter is Centaur from Stronghold 3/2/4.

It's not really that simple. 2/2/5 deals less damage, but is also much less vulnerable to many popular spells (lightning strike, fireball, double earthquake, etc), unlike centaur.

kkfuti
11-27-2013, 10:21 AM
It's not really that simple. 2/2/5 deals less damage, but is also much less vulnerable to many popular spells (lightning strike, fireball, double earthquake, etc), unlike centaur.

Agree, as a fire user I smile everytime I see a 4 life creature popping, while when the creture has 5 I need to start thinking about how I will try to attack it or luck into a spare Firebolt to finish it. The higher his attack is, the better, because it means that it costs more so I optimize better my fireballs.

Stat1cVoiD
11-27-2013, 01:34 PM
Are you serious guys?
You think Crimson Bond is "Interesting?"
That card is just freakin terrible.
Academy already has Favourite Spell to tutor for ALL spells (incl. uniques), which has the same stats requirements (2F) and costs 3 to play, BUT reduces the cost of the tutored spell by one. Therefore you could consider it a 2 cost card.
Which current "enchant creature" spell would justify to put Crimson Bond in any Deck?
At first I misread the card for "blah blah blah,... and play it for free", because I couldn't imagine to just TUTOR for a specific kind of spellcard in exchange for HP.

svilleneuve
11-27-2013, 04:13 PM
1. You know that normal archer for 3 is 2/2/5 now you are giving us a shooter 2/2/5 for 3 with additional ability. That's power creeping.

Really? Power creeping? If it's power creep then it means Fate Bender is just strictly better than another similar creature in the same faction. If you compare it to cards in other factions, you're going to notice it's balanced the same way. The reason why this creature is so important to Inferno is its HP. For 3 resources, you get something that has 5 HP. You needed to spend 4 resources to get more than 4 HP before this guy.

If you compare it to the Skeleton Archer, which is 2/2/5 too, of course the Fate Bender is better, because it has a bonus ability. But since they don't exist in the same faction, the comparison is useless. Take the Naga Yokujin for instance, also a 2/2/5 shooters. If you compare them, they are exactly the same, yet they don't have the same power level. Why is that? Because Necropolis already has a lot of immune to retaliation 2 ATK at 3 cost, it even has life drain. The skeleton is weaker because there's better choices around it. In Sanctuary though, the Yokujin could be a worthy choice because of its body. Naga shooters tend to be frail at this cost and even if it has no ability, the Yokujin might be a good pick if you aim for a late-game or mid-range tactic.

Power creep occurs when a card replaces another with strictly better cost/stats/ability. The Fate Bender doesn't replace anything in Inferno because it didn't have anything like it before.

WayneGace
11-27-2013, 04:48 PM
http://mmdocking.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Soul_consuming_efreet.png

Source: http://mmdocking.com/

PengthePenguin
11-27-2013, 05:45 PM
That elfreet seems a little gimmicky, even if you build your deck in a way that maxes its Fire Burst. But at least it's flying and has low requirements, maybe it fits into some Invoker deck or something.

Hommit
11-27-2013, 05:47 PM
Uhh... idk. For academy with mill this can be very cool (maybe), but for inferno (mostly rushes now)?

Dipl0mate
11-27-2013, 05:48 PM
The reddit gift has come out, go check that =)

Banehollow89
11-27-2013, 05:56 PM
http://i.imgur.com/ep1LZbN.png
This is from reddit, I suppose.

I actually like this little fellow, seems cool, but I don't know how much he will be effective, and it feels to close to the Moonsilk Skeleton. The difference is this guy doesn't die to Pao Deathseeker. xD

EDIT: Oh, I didn't see Melee Shooter characteristic, this is actually amazing addition if it is both melee and Shooter! :D

Hommit
11-27-2013, 06:11 PM
And it is ambush too. this+silk = ownage

Sebster1618
11-27-2013, 07:04 PM
Can 'Melee Shooters' be deployed in either front or back?

Banehollow89
11-27-2013, 07:08 PM
Can 'Melee Shooters' be deployed in either front or back?

Yes, and can also attack creatures behind the enemy first line, like shooters.

shel37
11-27-2013, 07:10 PM
Can 'Melee Shooters' be deployed in either front or back?

I think that they can be deployed in either front or back lines.

svilleneuve
11-27-2013, 07:10 PM
They can deploy on melee lines and shooter lines, and can attack like a normal shooter. Careful though, it doesn't have immune to retaliation.

Baduruu
11-27-2013, 07:27 PM
did i miss a post about how exactly the towers work?

in terms of where to they get deployed on the game mat?

what defines a certain creature as being "at" a tower to trigger its "at tower" effects?

Freyjan
11-27-2013, 07:29 PM
We don't know that yet, Baduruu.

elite_Husky
11-27-2013, 07:30 PM
I guess you can't use puppet master on tower though

Baduruu
11-27-2013, 07:33 PM
We don't know that yet, Baduruu.

awwww poo, i wanna know lol

Revalon
11-27-2013, 09:42 PM
I guess you can't use puppet master on tower though

Makes sense as it's not a creature...

kkfuti
11-27-2013, 11:06 PM
They can deploy on melee lines and shooter lines, and can attack like a normal shooter. Careful though, it doesn't have immune to retaliation.


If it works like that then it's very interesting as it allows you to deploy 2 threats for shooters in a row, or either deploy it as a shooter with a Moonsilk Skeleton in front, so no one wants to deploy creatures there and get them double weakened.

Now I have a question: Since all Spiders in the game were shooters that weren't inmune to retaliation, are they being updated to Melee Shooter too? I tend to have some problems with space in the backline for my Spitters and this would be great.


Really? Power creeping? If it's power creep then it means Fate Bender is just strictly better than another similar creature in the same faction. If you compare it to cards in other factions, you're going to notice it's balanced the same way. The reason why this creature is so important to Inferno is its HP. For 3 resources, you get something that has 5 HP. You needed to spend 4 resources to get more than 4 HP before this guy.


I get your point about balancing inside factions, and how some stats in faction A might not mean the same for gameplay than in faction B. But then, you said how the strength of this guy is how it provides high health to a faction where there were zero creatures with that health at that amount of resources... shouldn't it be more than enough to justify a cost 3 inside the low HP inferno faction given how it's so rare, without adding a powerful passive that puts it over the other faction 225 shooters? You said it yourself, the Skeleton Archer doesn't provide much to a faction that alrady has the Vampire, this guy just with his stats provides the ability to survive a Fireball at cost3, something his whole faction lacked before him.

Then there is also that Eefret, he isn't even inmune to retaliation and his mechanic is more for late game and won't even help him fighting, just makes him a bomb that can fight. He has the same atributes of the Fate Bender inside the same faction, he lacks retaliation inmunity and let's say we trade their passives as "same cost" (personally I prefer the Bender's passive even if the Eefret could get some interesting use, but if I wanted o burst, the Bloater is cheaper and doesn't need 20 dead cards). Why then the Eefret costs more inside the same faction if it got the same 5 HP and worse (open to debate) passives? Even if it requires just 2 Might, it needs 2 Magic, and most heros will spend 2 turns increasing atributes for the Bender and the Efreet.

PS: Really nice to see Eefrets returning to inferno faction! I wasn't sure if they were there in the Ashan world or not.

Vengyre
11-28-2013, 01:10 AM
Pseudo OTK Ammar: stone shield, pao, activate chain cast, 4x icy weapon (fetched by this) + spring touches (and 2nd pao).

Baduruu
11-28-2013, 03:45 AM
Pseudo OTK Ammar: stone shield, pao, activate chain cast, 4x icy weapon (fetched by this) + spring touches (and 2nd pao).

9 card combo with 1 extra card from new ammar ability. sounds consistent /sarcasm

JeditOjanen8
11-28-2013, 09:52 AM
Now I have a question: Since all Spiders in the game were shooters that weren't inmune to retaliation, are they being updated to Melee Shooter too? I tend to have some problems with space in the backline for my Spitters and this would be great.

Spitters are already one of the best creatures in the game, and you want to make them better?

Vengyre
11-28-2013, 10:08 AM
9 card combo with 1 extra card from new ammar ability. sounds consistent /sarcasm
Its not about Ammar ability, but about his spell schools, it basically should be played like Kat/Shaar OTK.

Rafhs
11-28-2013, 01:16 PM
That would be interesting:

Imperial Guard
Creature - Melee Shooter

WayneGace
11-28-2013, 01:35 PM
New card:

http://momcards.fr/uploads/a0ed0743afe9d97f4dbcbd2e4ed620f2.png

Revalon
11-28-2013, 01:51 PM
If every faction gets one of those "for each 5 cards in your graveyard, this creature gains...", I'm looking forward to the whining about the 4 ambush guy when you have 20 cards in graveyard xD

MamuzShah
11-28-2013, 02:01 PM
If every faction gets one of those "for each 5 cards in your graveyard, this creature gains...", I'm looking forward to the whining about the 4 ambush guy when you have 20 cards in graveyard xD

Think about "Bloodthirst X" or "Enrage X" and Ambush X is becoming peaceful ! :)

Serpicuz
11-28-2013, 02:09 PM
or maybe "Honor x".
The problem is that ability like "Infect" or "Fire Burs" are almost useless.
Otherwise "Honor", "Enrage/Bloodthirst", "Ambush" may have a huge impact on the game.

PengthePenguin
11-28-2013, 02:58 PM
Wow, that rat doesn't seem bad at all :O
Low requirements + immunity to retaliation + a potential poison for mid - lategame.

Banehollow89
11-28-2013, 03:02 PM
Wow, that rat doesn't seem bad at all :O
Low requirements + immunity to retaliation + a potential poison for mid - lategame.

Indeed, thought the same thing. Seems like a lot better Plague Zombie, that can be quite deadly in the mid-late game, because it is immune to retaliation and can cause 2-3 poison counters to anything he touches.

kkfuti
11-28-2013, 08:58 PM
Between this rat and the Tower of the gardener, now I understand why the Plague Bearer is there! A plague zombie you can deploy anywhere, is inmune to retaliation and can get nasty late in the game, and while you will generally get Might3 by then, you can deploy it with just might2? Yes, please. This expansion poison counters will drop much faster apparently... now if only we could get a drop 1 creature that adds some posion, like a 0-1-4 (like new Sanctuary creature) that applies 1 poison counter when it's attacked (no retaliation damage, special effect so it can slow a Dark Assassin rush) or some kind of mini bloater that applies poison 1 or 2 to the row when it dies...

Banehollow89
11-28-2013, 10:03 PM
Between this rat and the Tower of the gardener, now I understand why the Plague Bearer is there! A plague zombie you can deploy anywhere, is inmune to retaliation and can get nasty late in the game, and while you will generally get Might3 by then, you can deploy it with just might2? Yes, please. This expansion poison counters will drop much faster apparently... now if only we could get a drop 1 creature that adds some posion, like a 0-1-4 (like new Sanctuary creature) that applies 1 poison counter when it's attacked (no retaliation damage, special effect so it can slow a Dark Assassin rush) or some kind of mini bloater that applies poison 1 or 2 to the row when it dies...

Sadly, we already got Bloater that applies poison when it dies, it is called Rotten Zombie, and it is freaking terrible... On the other hand, since Rotten Mummies already starts with 1 poison counters on themselves, even with just 1-2 of them and 1 Spitter you can play Plague Bearers for cost of 2 or something like that. And when you play Plague Bearers, enemy will have a lot more to worry about them than about dying Rotting Mummies, so I think that they actually might apply poison to everything enemy has. We will see if it will be viable or not, but so far, I like where this is going.

kkfuti
11-29-2013, 09:49 AM
I'm thinking that the Scavenger creature is probably one of the best cheap candidates to deploy on top of the Tower of the Gardener:

- It's inmune to retaliation and can attack either the melee or shooter in front of him. It has a passive that makes his own Infect increase. The Tower would give it a base Infect of 3, and Regen2. Normally he should have at least Infect 1 by himself (and better the more you go into late game, can get nasty), which means any creature that is deployed in front of him should be ready to receive at least 6 damage (his base 2, plus Infect 4 at least), and if they deploy 2 creatures, you can pick which one to kill, most times leaving a 2 damage creature in front of you whose damage you will heal next round.

Of course opponents can try to target him with spells, but it looks like a great candidate for cheap. Vampires are great cheap candidates too, healing up to 4 damage each round and gaining Infect3 with no retaliation (no retaliation is very important when you have infect, Spitters suffer from retaliation damage all the time even if they can kill opponents, and Zombies are far less durable than Vampires not just for LD, bur for retaliation damage too).

The downside is that for 2 direct damage, opponents can simply ignore the row where the tower is, as the damage to the hero is much smaller than the damage to creatures. You could use that for some strategies with Paos or the new Plague Bearer (who could be free with this guy) so there is some real damage in the row that opponents can't ignore.

Banehollow89
11-29-2013, 12:39 PM
You forgot about Archliches, they are like the perfect candidate for Tower of the Gardener. :)
3 damage + 3 Infect with this, meaning majority of creatures will die from his attack. 3 damage isn't so low, so you can't just ignore it, and he also have Life Drain 2. Oh, I am really looking forward to using these kind of things. :)

svilleneuve
11-29-2013, 05:38 PM
Has anyone considered using Tower of the Gardener in a non-Necro deck? It is pretty good with quick attack, attack anywhere and swift.

elite_Husky
11-29-2013, 05:40 PM
Yea, Infect 3 is huge. (Even more comparable to other towers) I consider whole buildings based decks

Aznam
11-29-2013, 06:06 PM
I don't know how comfortable I am with all decks having access to 3 infect which is a necro mechanic. More infect than any necro creature has ingame. Now I'm not saying I would want necro to be the only decks that should have this card in this state. It seems wildly OP with 3 infect and should probably be taken down a notch in terms of the infect power and make infect the necro creature ability and improve the "any creatures" ability or change it.

kkfuti
11-29-2013, 06:49 PM
You forgot about Archliches, they are like the perfect candidate for Tower of the Gardener. :)
3 damage + 3 Infect with this, meaning majority of creatures will die from his attack. 3 damage isn't so low, so you can't just ignore it, and he also have Life Drain 2. Oh, I am really looking forward to using these kind of things. :)

Well, I said cheap creature refering to 1-3 cost, if we increase the price, then Vampire Lord or Ghost Dragon are beasts on that thing!!

Hommit
11-29-2013, 08:08 PM
I don't know how comfortable I am with all decks having access to 3 infect which is a necro mechanic. More infect than any necro creature has ingame. Now I'm not saying I would want necro to be the only decks that should have this card in this state. It seems wildly OP with 3 infect and should probably be taken down a notch in terms of the infect power and make infect the necro creature ability and improve the "any creatures" ability or change it.

somth like +2 all, +1 additional to necro, atleast
and lets not forget this tower is usable (and most probably going to be used) in any creature deck, as it require only 2/1 - very cheap, so...

http://mmdocking.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/spelldark.jpg
Wither
Enchant creature. Permanent:
Enchanted creature gets -X Attack and -X Retaliation, where X is your magic level.

wow, and only for 3

budynzmajonezem
11-29-2013, 08:25 PM
Not that bad, maybe it will find use in Kal-Azaar full control decks.

atord-Nordos
11-29-2013, 08:40 PM
My Namtaru Control want it.

Banehollow89
11-29-2013, 08:48 PM
Well, I said cheap creature refering to 1-3 cost, if we increase the price, then Vampire Lord or Ghost Dragon are beasts on that thing!!

But you were talking about Spitters too, so I thought you think about a bit stronger monsters. Creatures above level 5 in might(except Banshees) are quite unrealistic since most of them just die to the spells the moment you play them. On the other hand, Spitters, Soul-Consuming Liches and Archliches are played quite a lot.

kkfuti
11-29-2013, 09:19 PM
But you were talking about Spitters too, so I thought you think about a bit stronger monsters. Creatures above level 5 in might(except Banshees) are quite unrealistic since most of them just die to the spells the moment you play them. On the other hand, Spitters, Soul-Consuming Liches and Archliches are played quite a lot.

Well the Spitters were an example of how big a difference is Inmune to Retaliation when you want to attack with Infect. You're right those creatures are unrealistic, but I'm even considering removing my 2 Archliches from my deck. I'll wait to see the complete Five Towers set to see how everything fits together.


somth like +2 all, +1 additional to necro, atleast
and lets not forget this tower is usable (and most probably going to be used) in any creature deck, as it require only 2/1 - very cheap, so...

http://mmdocking.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/spelldark.jpg
Wither
Enchant creature. Permanent:
Enchanted creature gets -X Attack and -X Retaliation, where X is your magic level.

wow, and only for 3

I was hoping for some good Dark and Fire spells in the 2 and 3 cost range for my Malik deck, as sometimes having soooo many cost4 spells works against you if you don't draw good creatures. This one looks like a great candidate! And another reason to keep investing on magic on your spare turns (turns when you've reached your ideal atributes and have 0 resources to draw a card), so your oponent thinks you're going to play Puppet Master or Armageddon you don't have and still optimize it. Ideally a soulreaver would be better, but at cost3 it might have place on decks, we will have to see how it works.

Edit: Now that I think about it, maybe it's a bit crappy. If you're going to target a fatty, it's always better to kill it instead of making him a wall, and if Death Seal (pseudo Soulreaver that needs an attack) doesn't see much play, for the same cost this one that still leaves a wall I'm not sure will be so good.

Kzhar
11-29-2013, 09:52 PM
New Card from Five Towers revealed by OTCG-FR !

From http://www.otcg-fr.com/images/next/s04_Cre_Str_062.png

Stronghold amazing card.


Bloodthirst 1

Rage 1

Baduruu
11-29-2013, 11:02 PM
this expansion looks like its going to shake the meta up pretty nicely. im sooooo excited from these spoilers. Looks way more interesting than the spoilers for the "soon to come" Shadow Era expansion.

Cannot wait for Five Towers

Baduruu
11-29-2013, 11:06 PM
somth like +2 all, +1 additional to necro, atleast
and lets not forget this tower is usable (and most probably going to be used) in any creature deck, as it require only 2/1 - very cheap, so...

http://mmdocking.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/spelldark.jpg
Wither
Enchant creature. Permanent:
Enchanted creature gets -X Attack and -X Retaliation, where X is your magic level.

wow, and only for 3

may be nice in my Ignatius Punishment deck. what ide like to see is a Inferno creature with a built in dispell or movement of a ongoing creature spell to couple this with tho. ide Wither a DA to bring it to 1 attack so they just wont use em. and when im ready to fiery cursed bond him ide also play a weenie with ongoing spell bounce/relocate. and voila a saved up 7dmg suicide Dark Assassin no muss no fuss.

plopping a wraith in front of a withered DA would just secure that lane until ready to fire. but i really need a body to go along with a ongoing creature spell dispell/bounce/relocate to make this work in the Punisher deck. cant sacrifice a body to make the mechanic work with single target dispells. that would be a bad trade without a weenie body to go along with it

atord-Nordos
11-29-2013, 11:40 PM
Why not switch to Al-Kazar - then you have accsess to Spell Steal, which can be used for Enthralls otherwise :P

Baduruu
11-30-2013, 12:45 AM
with the new set i may actually finally run Kazar with punishment. as wither alone allows me to put alot less stress on my lifepoints as a resource. needless to say again im very excited about the new set.

titusthefox
11-30-2013, 11:54 AM
this expansion looks like its going to shake the meta up pretty nicely. im sooooo excited from these spoilers. Looks way more interesting than the spoilers for the "soon to come" Shadow Era expansion.


What's this about a Shadow Era expansion? Is that the next expansion and are there spoilers out for it already?

Shadow Era makes me think of the Dungeon faction *droools*

Banehollow89
11-30-2013, 04:41 PM
What's this about a Shadow Era expansion? Is that the next expansion and are there spoilers out for it already?

Shadow Era makes me think of the Dungeon faction *droools*

No, Shadow Era is another Card Game, like Duel of Champions, but to me tbh not nearly as good.

ArcaneAzmadi
12-02-2013, 09:27 PM
Huh, I was thinking they should release a melee shooter. I didn't think they'd actually do it, though. Does that mean it can deploy on either rank, or just that it has to deploy on the melee rank but is still capable of hitting the back rank? No, since it has no damage, that'd be meaningless, it HAS to be able to deploy on either rank.

Plague Bearer is an unbelievably awful piece of rubbish, though. If you CAN'T take advantage of its poison counter synergy (not as easy as it sounds) then it's just a hideously overpriced, inferior Tainted Orc. If you CAN take advantage of it, then it's still just an inferior Tainted Orc. It still has a 4 Might requirement and its stats are WORSE than Tainted Orc's. And you can't deploy it onto an empty board (after an effective Insect Swarm, for example) without paying through the nose for the stupid thing. And this is Necro's RARE creature for the expansion. Not as utterly worthless as the IMMEASURABLY garbage Rotting Mummy, but if this is indicative of the general quality of Necro's cards in the expansion, it looks like they're getting hosed again.

Baduruu
12-03-2013, 02:29 AM
No, Shadow Era is another Card Game, like Duel of Champions, but to me tbh not nearly as good.

tbh its not nearly as good as DoC and its only going downhill on a daily basis

kkfuti
12-03-2013, 02:50 AM
I got a question: If a meleeguard creature stands next to a shooter guard creature... they have double the protection against a melee shooter?

svilleneuve
12-03-2013, 01:45 PM
I got a question: If a meleeguard creature stands next to a shooter guard creature... they have double the protection against a melee shooter?

Indeed. It counts as both so it triggers both Guard abilities.

kkfuti
12-04-2013, 08:41 AM
Indeed. It counts as both so it triggers both Guard abilities.

Thanks for the answer :) I knew there has to be at least something bad about being multiclass even if it's just against one faction.

Revalon
12-04-2013, 09:03 AM
Thanks for the answer :) I knew there has to be at least something bad about being multiclass even if it's just against one faction.


http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/b01/large/b01_Spe_Ear_011.jpg
http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/b01/large/b01_Spe_Air_005.jpg
http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/s01/large/s01_Spe_Air_032.jpg
http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/s01/large/s01_Spe_Ear_030.jpg
http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/s03/large/s03_Cre_Aca_001.jpg
http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/s03/large/s03_Cre_Aca_003.jpg

And that ain't even everything.

But at least we now can have the field full of creatures taking half damage from anything thanks to Might of Nature.
I think if there are some really good melee shooters, MoN might really get too strong, but we will see.

kkfuti
12-04-2013, 10:50 AM
@Revalon well I was talking about the combination affecting them 2 times. Those work too, though to be honest the only ones I see being played, and not too often, are the Rakasha and Dervish.

Sqrawn
12-04-2013, 04:44 PM
Wow do I love Plague Bearer. Only 4 might requirement is amazing for Nergal. Possibly Ariana too, especially with Poison Cloud.