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IIConnorsII
11-24-2013, 06:27 PM
Hello everyone!

So I have a question for you all. Why do you choose a particular faction? I have played as 2 factions (Sylvan and Haven. Just started Academy so still learning about them) and have seen a couple of differences already.

So what drives you to pick a faction? Does your strategy in picking a faction change from PvP servers to PvE servers? Do you try to build an alliance with a good spread of different factions or try to go heavy on a particular type?

Just curious to what your thoughts are!

Thanks!
[GM] IIConnorsII

dre.maa
11-25-2013, 05:53 AM
I like the fast start of the Academy. They are a lot more fun early on (I feel like there was more waiting when I played other factions), but as the game wears on I feel like their troops aren't as good. What I do like about them is that they have ranged/cav/melee/ranged/cav/melee in troop types for T1-T6. The only other faction that 1 of each in T1-T3 and T4-T6 is Sylvan. Inferno only has T2 and T7 infantry, Necro only has T3 and T7 cavalry, and Haven has T1 and T3 infantry, but none T4-T6. I feel like you get more HP's worth of T4-T6 units and I like to have plenty of each troop type (though I do focus on one particular type-usually T5 as it is the "main" resource and you can get a lot of them and they aren't weak). I also like casting spells and wizards in general, so I am drawn toward academy. They have the cheapest mage guilds.

EvyV
11-27-2013, 05:13 AM
I would have to say pretty much the same as dre.maa. I most often play either Acad or Sylvan. I like the fast build of Acad and the cheap access to magic. But Acad lacks destructive magic and that often feels like a real disadvantage. I'd say that on attack, nothing beats destructive magic, but it can be nearly useless on defense. Playing Haven, it just seems like everything takes forever to build, though Sylvan takes a lot of resources also. Light and dark magic can be a great combination, though. I have much less experience with Necro and Inferno. The only thing I would add to the above post is that T4 infantry is one very nice feature of Necro.

AndreanDW
11-27-2013, 12:54 PM
on PvE I use academy because it is he fastest and easiest way to start and play (light magic, cheap mage guilds, ...)
on PvP if you play with academy and dayly recruitment you can do nothing against necro (T2 and phenix spell have no chance against T2,T4, dark magic spells and so on, and you have no good destruction spells) therefore I play necro

on servers where I don't want to play til the end I test each faction

dre.maa
11-27-2013, 05:30 PM
on PvE I use academy because it is he fastest and easiest way to start and play (light magic, cheap mage guilds, ...)
on PvP if you play with academy and dayly recruitment you can do nothing against necro (T2 and phenix spell have no chance against T2,T4, dark magic spells and so on, and you have no good destruction spells) therefore I play necro

on servers where I don't want to play til the end I test each faction

For Academy on PvP versus necro, wouldn't the T4 magi with barrage fire be okay vs T2/T4 necro troops? You could also use firewall to great effect on T2 (not so much on T4) and yo have a decent destruction spell in fire trap (between ice bolt and inferno in damage versus melee). I am not saying that it is the best versus Necro (I would think that inferno would be better suited with all the ranged it has), but I would think that it wouldn't be horribly overmatched.

AndreanDW
11-27-2013, 06:51 PM
while attacking it's okay, when defending the fire trap makes damage only with luck; necro spells make damage all the time

MartyAmodeo
11-27-2013, 07:08 PM
In general, I'd say Academy is good at a fast start to give an initial advantage, and light magic helps to leverage that advantage. Summoning can swing a battle between equally matched players. The situation where it is difficult to play Academy is one where you are already overpowered.

Necro is a slow start because it requires rares that are not used for your T5-7 troops to build some basic buildings. It is good in a situation where you are fighting an evenly matched player because of summoning, and weakening spells like Death Touch. Also, if you are already overpowered, you still have spells that can do some damage (though there are ways to counter that).

Necro's Phoenix uses tier 3 troops, which are much less vulnerable to enemy spells like meteor shower/firewall, but they also aren't boosted much by +power/unit artifacts (compared to T2 for Academy or T1 for Sylvan). You can combine Academy's T2 Phoenix with Mystic Shield on defense or Righteous Might on offense to give it a major boost, provided that it survives to the next round. Necro has no real way to strengthen its Phoenix spell, though something like Death Touch/Vulnerable can have a similar effect to a smaller degree.

AndreanDW
11-27-2013, 11:29 PM
there is no 'best' faction that wins against each other faction
the best way to win is playing within an active alliance where each kind of enemy can be contered by one of the active players

IIConnorsII
12-01-2013, 08:31 PM
Yeah I have been able to see how powerful casting spells can be.

Do you guys think it's better to have a large amount of weaker troops or a small about of T5, T6, T7 troops? (I know I'm asking very general questions that almost never have an easy answer)

Thanks to everyone that replied!

[GM] IIConnorsII

ramborusina
12-01-2013, 10:21 PM
If you fight NPC weaker troops can be buffed and they are awesome since spells aren't cast. Against players weaker troops aren't useful as they will get wiped out with spells. So if you play pve low-tier troops are better(or when vestiging even in pvp-worlds), but in pvp-battles high-tier troops are way better.

dre.maa
12-03-2013, 05:21 AM
Yeah I have been able to see how powerful casting spells can be.

Do you guys think it's better to have a large amount of weaker troops or a small about of T5, T6, T7 troops? (I know I'm asking very general questions that almost never have an easy answer)

Thanks to everyone that replied!

[GM] IIConnorsII

As ramborusina said, the higher tier troops are much less vulnerable to spells. However, they are much less affected by the +5/10/15 to unit attack found on artifacts and in the leadership tree (harangue). The low level units are particularly vulnerable to dark spells (or successfully landed meteor shower/firewall/circle of winter). They are also typically buffed much higher using light spells (as the % in righteous might is much higher than teleport or haste would be for most T1-T3).

One of the legacy abilities (daily recruitment) will give you lots of T2 units for free, which over the course of the game can add up to pretty large numbers. Even though they can be wiped out with 1 cast of a spell, they can be very effective at killing much larger armies on the offensive. Remember, you usually only lose 30% of your troops even if they are wiped out. They were also free.

In PvE situations, lower tier troops are typically better because they get buffed better by spells, abilities, and artifacts. Sometimes, however, it is possible to use a small number of T6 or T7 and not suffer any losses. T7 are also hard to create as you don't get a boost to their growth and they are quite expensive (14 rares a piece if upgraded I think)

IIConnorsII
12-06-2013, 04:41 AM
Yeah I will have to take a good look at the legacy abilities once Season 4 is over. I will need to play around with more spells on the PvE server but I'm already busy defending against those darn rifts lol.

But yeah I definitely see the advantage of lower tier troops for PvE since you can replenish your ranks much more quickly. And since you can be under attack in multiple towns, it's harder to split up your higher tier troops and more devastating when you lose some of them.

[GM] IIConnorsII

filipd81
12-08-2013, 02:39 AM
I think that academy is the best for PVE, the others already explained about the cheap magic and the power of the low tier troops combined with light magic and artifacts that boost unit attack/defense. Of course DR helps a lot. I will only add that the large use of low tiers is possible only because of the absense of enemy casters. Hopefully this may change and PVE will be more interesting. And let's not forget that low tier + light magic and unit bonus artifacts means faster honor progression which is the fastest way to expand your kingdom.

Speaking about PVP it is much more complex. Clearly a good alliance is one that has a good equilibrium between different factions, this way you can use all the advantages of each faction, trade resources and of couse there will be less competion to settle the good regions. Once my favourite faction was academy because of the cheap magic, because T4-6 are different unit types and last but not the least because of the conjure phoenix spell. But this season the latter has been nerfed a lot and I'm convinced it doesn't worth for the weak troops anymore. And since academy has no destruction and dark magic they can't even make a decent spellbomb in defense.

Right now I would rather choose haven or inferno. Haven is a faction oriented in defense but the strong troops when used properly will quickly bring advantage in terms of army power, and light magic is much better in attack when there is a good advantage in numbers. It is common thinking that academy is the cheapest and haven is the most expensive. It is paritially wrong. Recruitment buildings are slightly cheaper for haven though they require more commons than rares which will force you to settle the first 3-4 towns with 2 or 1 common, that's the reason I wouldn't play haven as a free player since I would like to have enough rare mines to recruit the high tier units. Except for capitol and castle which can be build later the cost of the other buildings don't differ much from that of other factions. The important thing is to be very careful with the magic guilds. The first 3 levels cost aprox same as all the 5 levels of academy, but fortunately there is a good set of useful spells in those 3 levels. Just be patient to go for level 4 and 5, avoid to build useless buildings and upgrade quickly your common mines and in result you will have a better start than an academy player. The best part with haven is if you decide to lay siege, haven has the widest set of spells for defense which gives lots of options to combine them and helps to resist against more attacks.

Inferno is also a very a good faction to play. And it can also be played as a free because it has the strongest T4 wich allows to avoid T6 and thus settle regions with only one type of rare. Strong units, spells good equally in attack and defense. Unfortuntely lack of infantry, only DR helps here.

Sylvan has relatevely strong units and T4-6 like for academy are different types which allows flexibility, T4 is strong as T4 of inferno. Very wide range of offenseive spells but when it comes to defense it can be disappointing. Find the way to provide a haven protector or avoid to fight in defense, play in team with other factions.

I wouldn't play necro as it doesn't fit my play style. I find it too passive. It has relatively weak units and cheap magic. Good in defense but bad in attack, I can't find good combos or at least there are very few which makes them predictable. Destrction and light magic are very important in attack and necros miss them both. They have too much infantry for my taste, I just have to sit in town and wait for some misguided shooter lacking player to attack and if someone with lots of archers pays me a visit I will just summon the phoenix behind the thick castle walls.

There is smth important and probably obvious but no one said it till now. For PVP T4,5,6 are important mostly because of the higher production of army power compared to T1,2,3 (even with built regional dwellings). T4 produce less army power and are less affected by production skill and items but then you have Asha to help more or less frequently and of course they require only gold. Someone already explained the problem with T7 but let me say again, their buildgins are the most expensive, they require high town level, only 2 can be produced in any town, they require lots of rares and also a leader who must move from town to town.

In any case whatever you do the most importatnt thing in this game is how much time you dedicate. Eventually this the factor that makes the difference between fast and slow players and faster often means stronger.

But don't trust anything I say, play the game and you will learn :)

dre.maa
12-08-2013, 08:18 AM
It is common thinking that academy is the cheapest and haven is the most expensive.

Haven does have the most expensive troops, though you do get what you pay for in that sense. The T4-T5-T6 units cost 100-300-500 more gold per troops, though you do get 100-600-1600 more power per troop. I feel like it is much slower to start, and thus you are not as strong as an academy or necro in the beginning. They are also lacking a cavalry at low levels, which makes it hard to clear some of the buildings without taking some losses. The surrounding regions don't seem to be a problem since they are now devoid of archer type units for Haven towns for the first couple of cities. I just don't like to lose units early on and it is hard to avoid doing so with Haven. I also like to be able to start with a 60-0-60 hero type (which you can't do with Haven or Sylvan). I feel like that way you are guarenteed to get a good offensive hero early on (whereas it is luck/random if you get one in your tavern). I liked playing inferno, but did find the lack of infantry a bit rough. Maybe if I had DR at a high level it wouldn't be as bad (as I played as them before I had any legacy), but you only get so many. I like that you get an extra nightmare in each town (which to me is better than extra peasants...or skeletons...or djinn...although not quite as nice as treants).

As for time, I am not sure that I agree with that. I think if you put in more time, but don't spend as much in seals (in doing things like clearing vestiges) then you will not be as strong. Someone who plays less often but buys a bunch of artifacts that give +inf attack and play inferno and run through vestiges with imps would have a pretty easy time of surpassing someone in power who doesn't spend a lot in seals. I realize that this is part of the problem with the game, but I often run out of things to do in the game at the beginning (and I even spent some seals on this last world to get extra town slots open early and extra heroes in the field early).

filipd81
12-08-2013, 09:22 AM
Yes, of course it is personal and it is also about how you feel with certain faction. I just don't feel good with necro and with academy (but I liked it much in the previous season). I did my own strategy with haven and on the last 2 servers when we were out of protection I had the biggest stack (paladins) in th ally and also a good offensive hero, I broke 3 sieges that the rest of the ally couldn't manage. My attacker wasn't my heir since I didn't use seals to change him. Probably there are good strategies for necro and academy, I repeat it is smth individual. I also understand the point about the cost of troops but the gold I always find a way to pay and what is most important for me is the speed to recover from loses.

In my previous comment I assumed no use of seals. Actually if you couldn't reassign the heroes it would be even a harder starter with haven while academy would dominate in the first weeks which makes it perfect for a free player. I didn't consider vestiges either. Recently I did some calculations and it seems that if you play academy you should focus on them, just it wouldn't be a profit to upgrade the troops. But if we start to discuss the strategies including vestiges it is a lot more complicated. Personally I would feel better if there were no army rewards. I really hate all the times when I attacked someone and in the last minute they used a a vestige reward and maked me lose the battle.

Since I stopped my subscription I play inferno focusing ot T4-5 and DR helps a lot. It would be a real mess wihout it :)

dre.maa
12-08-2013, 05:02 PM
When you had the biggest stack of paladins, is that when you were subscribing? You said that it would be hard to play as a free-to-play player, but I was just curious. I never seem to be able to afford my T5-T6 troops since they cost so many rares and I feel like double gold are much better since you can hold many more troops in your towns.

I don't like necro either, but I feel like it is easier to play early on, though they face the same problem vs melee before you upgrade your skeletons (since they don't have a non-upgraded archer until T5).

Is the reason you don't like necro and academy due to the nerf of the phoenix spell?

I like to pick your brain because you and Marty seem to be very experienced (even though you disagree on many things).

ramborusina
12-08-2013, 06:52 PM
I'd have to say that Academy still is that best faction early on. It's fastest to grow/build, but the low-powered units are it's downfall later in the game. Haven may have the most expensive troops, but haven also has most cost-efficient troops which makes it ideal in long-term. In reality you can do well with any team early on as long as you know what you're doing. In my mind easiest/best start comes with academy(fastest magic), inferno(useful magic though expensive and zone enemies are easy) and necro(fast magic and easy zone-enemies). Sylvan has probably trickiest start along with haven, but if you get lucky with common zone-resources you can get fast start with them as-well even if you don't take several towns to produce commons.

Haven will get mixed zone-enemies from 2 types so you may lose more troops in zone-battles. Also since peasants have higher attack than other t1 troops it doesn't get as big boost from inf +XX compared to original power(disadvantage in vestiges). Haven also costs ton of commons and magic-guild is very expensive to even get few levels, but later on this doesn't matter much. It has good magic-schools for both defense(especially) and offense so that's a plus. Overall I think haven's biggest disadvantage aside high-costs is the lack of infantry. It does have good t3, but for some reason people overlook it(the ~500 power can take dark-spells and meteors pretty nicely) and t7 is not bad, but you can't boost the growth which is same problem with other teams. Still overall I think haven is actually the most balanced team as whole.

Here is how I perceive the factions:

Necro is most unbalanced team units wise(infantry based though I think it's the best unit-type), has weaker units (and I dislike the magic-schools personally), easy to get magic heroes, easy start(may need some trading for rares, but 1-type enemies)
Academy is very balanced troops-wise, weak units, cheap magic(in my eyes not bad magic schools, but not that great either), easy to get magic heroes, fairly easy start(though npcs are 2-type and buildings cost rares a bit)
Inferno lacks infantry, good units overall, useful magic-schools though expensive, fairly easy to get magic-heroes, easy start(1-type units and magic schools have good spells early on too)
Sylvan has best unit-balance, extra boost to t6 +1, cost-efficient troops, expensive buildings, very offensive magic-schools(definately not for defending unless you like gambling), very hard to recruit magic-heroes, hard battles early-on(though useful spells since start, but also 2-type enemies)
Haven has most cost efficient troops, expensive buildings, balanced magic schools(tipped to defence), very hard to get magic heroes, fairly hard battles early(little help from expensive magic and 2-type npcs). Paladins, squires and crossbowmen are very cost-efficient units(though t2 will get slaughtered with spells)

filipd81
12-08-2013, 11:13 PM
When you had the biggest stack of paladins, is that when you were subscribing? You said that it would be hard to play as a free-to-play player, but I was just curious. I never seem to be able to afford my T5-T6 troops since they cost so many rares and I feel like double gold are much better since you can hold many more troops in your towns.

I was subscribed then. For a fast start haven needs 3 wood and 3 ore mines in the first 3 towns, later you can go for gold and rares only but that's not possible if you play free. On the contrary academy and necro recruitment buildings spread the cost over rares and thus they are easier to build even with less mines for common which means more rare mines in the first 3 towns.

Just look at this:

T5
Sepulcher 20,700 gold 37 wood 25 ore 14 mercury 6 crystal 3 sulfur 3 gem -total cost 134,700 (62 commons, 26 rares)
Altar of Wishes 23,000 gold 34 wood 44 ore 15 sulfur 14 gem - total cost 159,000 (78 commons, 29 rares!)
Monastery 31,000 gold 45 wood 41 ore 4 mercury 10 crystal 4 sulfur 4 gem - total cost 161,000 (86 commons!, 22 rares)

T6
Forlorn Hall 51,300 gold 72 wood 50 ore 22 mercury 12 crystal - total cost 241,300 (122 commons, 34 rares)
Silver Pavilion 57,000 gold 56 wood 80 ore 10 sulfur 25 gem - total cost 263,000 (136 commons, 35 rares!)
Jousting Arena 80,000 gold 92 wood 92 ore 15 crystal - total cost 294,000 (184 commons!, 15 rares)



Is the reason you don't like necro and academy due to the nerf of the phoenix spell?


Yes, that's the main reason. I was used to base my strategy on the boosted phoenix which largely compensated the weaker troops. It had to be downgraded but the devs went down too heavily. Now it is just a spell like others.



I like to pick your brain because you and Mary seem to be very experienced (even though you disagree on many things).


I just focus on the army. Magic is essential but it won't help if you have no army. I make my towns produce troops and then I focus on the rest.

IIConnorsII
12-10-2013, 12:59 AM
Such a good discussion ^^ So from my understanding of what you guys are saying, is that overall every faction has its advantages and disadvantages whether it be troops, magic, economy, heroes, etc.

So let me ask you guys this, what is the biggest strength and weakness of each faction? Basically if you were the Devs, what is one thing you would buff or nerf from each faction?

[GM] IIConnorsII

dre.maa
12-10-2013, 06:19 PM
Such a good discussion ^^ So from my understanding of what you guys are saying, is that overall every faction has its advantages and disadvantages whether it be troops, magic, economy, heroes, etc.

So let me ask you guys this, what is the biggest strength and weakness of each faction? Basically if you were the Devs, what is one thing you would buff or nerf from each faction?

[GM] IIConnorsII

The advantages and disadvantages are pretty accurate when you choose your faction. Academy and Necropolis have easy access to magic, but weaker troops. Haven, Sylvan and Inferno have better troops, but much more limited magic capabilities (fewer heroes and more expensive spells). The costs per power are fairly equal throughout the factions (there is less than 10% difference if I recall correctly in power/gold for most troops...I think it is around 0.4 power per gold if you count rares as 2000). I feel like it is very well balanced now and no changes are really needed to the individual factions. If I had to pick something...

Academy: Buff- Increase power of level 5 troops. Nerf- make magic more expensive at higher levels (leave the lower levels cheap).
Haven: Buff- make magic at lower levels cost less. Nerf - decrease level 6 troop power, as they have something like 600 or 700 power more than any other level 6 troop.
Necropolis: Buff- make vampires cavalry when upgraded so that they have a T4-T6 cavalry Nerf- have more infantry squares in regions forcing you to use your upgraded T1 troops or suffer losses
Sylvan: Buff-make magic heroes more common in tavern (I realize this can be accomplished by reassignment...but..) or be able to start with a 60-0-60 type hero. Nerf- I feel like they got nerfed this season because the big destruction and big summoning spell were both decreased. Their troops are pretty powerful, so maybe decrease the power of their T4 or T5 troops by a bit
Inferno: Buff- make non-upgraded pit lords melee (so they have a melee class T4-T6). Nerf: do not allow a starting hero of 60-0-60, the other powerful troop types do not get this class of hero to start

Some of the nerfs were really stretches, the buffs are not really needed. Like I said, I don't think the problem with this game lies within the differences in the factions-it is much more a money (and to a much smaller extent legacy...partially because it necessitates the money) problem.

filipd81
12-10-2013, 07:56 PM
It doesn't make sense to change anything as long as it is possible to abuse the seal system with tons of real money. Our nice discussion is only hypotetical and refers to a world without seals.