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View Full Version : Please bring back some set pieces ( spoilers )



killzab
11-15-2013, 01:22 PM
I understand they wanted to avoid doing the same mistakes as ACIII, but I think they went a little too far this time.

They're are no awesome cinematic and self-contained little missions anymore a la crypts, templar's lairs, Romulus lairs or Leonardo's machines ( and Kidd's missions in ACIII as well )

The only two I can remember in ACIV that got close to that were the Charlestown mission and the death of Black Beard one.

Now I like open-ended missions, but putting gazillions of tailing missions wasn't exactly the best move either. I'm surprised not too many people are complaining about the amount of tailing missions here.

I think there were FAR TOO many. And reviews mention it too.

I'd rather they made some more cinematic missions ( not too many though). I admit I liked the more cinematic aspect of ACR.

If they could find a right balance between open-endedness and cinematic missions, we could have something amazing. ( ACB was close to it IMO actually).

For example, the last mission where we kill Torres was a little lacking , just some platforming and an air assassination. Not very epic IMO.

roostersrule2
11-15-2013, 01:26 PM
They're good in some aspects, ACR did it really well but it lacked the open end structure in other missions. For boss battles (not assassinations) they should be set pieces.

Reviewers like the open ended mission structure, indeed the did mention it. Mentioned it by praising it, but 3 or 4 intense set pieces can't hurt.

killzab
11-15-2013, 01:37 PM
They're good in some aspects, ACR did it really well but it lacked the open end structure in other missions. For boss battles (not assassinations) they should be set pieces.

Reviewers like the open ended mission structure, indeed the did mention it. Mentioned it by praising it, but 3 or 4 intense set pieces can't hurt.

I read quite a few reviews complaining about having too many tailing missions as well.

And tailing isn't exactly open-ended. They're the WORST kind of missions IMO. I didn't really enjoy story missions too much actually.

roostersrule2
11-15-2013, 01:41 PM
I read quite a few reviews complaining about having too many tailing missions as well.

And tailing isn't exactly open-ended. They're the WORST kind of missions IMO. I didn't really enjoy story missions too much actually.Yea the tailing missions were repetitive and I agree, I hate them too. The only fun won I ever played was the Forum of the Ox one in ACR, that was a great mission.

I disagree with that though, I thought the missions were very good.

pacmanate
11-15-2013, 02:14 PM
I agree, more set pieces! The North Carolina one was really cool but thats the only one I can remember.

Ritterkreuz1978
11-15-2013, 03:07 PM
And tailing isn't exactly open-ended. They're the WORST kind of missions IMO.

Agreed, those are such a pain sometimes.

I really preferred the openness of IV over the rigid structure of III.

Dragula
11-15-2013, 03:12 PM
i thought the tailing was fine, more stealthy rather than running and gunning(stabbing?) style play, the stay out of combat optionals were the only annoyance to me, i like to assassinate lol

Ritterkreuz1978
11-15-2013, 03:57 PM
the stay out of combat optionals were the only annoyance to me, i like to assassinate lol

To me those just meant that I was guaranteed to end up in a fight within the first 5 seconds of the mission.

MnemonicSyntax
11-15-2013, 04:12 PM
It wasn't so bad to stay out of combat on land as much as it was at sea. Good gravy that was crazy.

TorQue1988
11-15-2013, 04:22 PM
I agree, ACR was the best game in that regard. I think they should find a good balance between set pieces and open missions to keep things more diverse and make the game more cinematic,

killzab
11-15-2013, 04:28 PM
Black Flag all around feels a little low-budget I think.

It definitely had less ressources than ACIII.

It doesn't show too much because it had much better direction thanks to Ashraf Ismail, but you can tell it was much less ambitious.

Farlander1991
11-15-2013, 04:38 PM
Ambition is what ultimately killed AC3.

Well, ambition is a two-edged sword, really. Without ambition, we wouldn't have tree-running and an insanely awesome animated system, and naval (the very basis of AC4) and a bunch of other things, but in the end it didn't work out for AC3. It was a right choice from Ubisoft's part to work with, for the most part, with what they had and refining it.

twenty_glyphs
11-15-2013, 04:50 PM
Yeah, I kind of miss the tomb-type levels a little bit. They were always a nice bite-sized change of pace, and it was fun to explore interiors and underground of famous landmarks. I didn't think they were done very well in AC3, so I didn't miss them too much for AC4. Perhaps they can be brought back again when the series goes to a location with more landmarks? As for set pieces, I'm really glad that AC4 was much more open-ended, so I can't say I missed them a ton. It wouldn't hurt to add another big epic moment or two while keeping some of the open-ended nature there. I would like to see something like the castle siege at the end of Brotherhood or the Battle of Bunker Hill with actual options to either sneak in or get involved in the combat.

I know I'm in the minority, but I actually enjoy the tail/eavesdrop missions. They're a nice change of pace, and with improved stealth options they were fun in AC4. They challenge you to stay stealthy on the move as opposed to sneaking into a location, so it's just some nice variety for me. I can see why not everyone likes them though.

luckyto
11-15-2013, 06:05 PM
I understand they wanted to avoid doing the same mistakes as ACIII, but I think they went a little too far this time.

They're are no awesome cinematic and self-contained little missions anymore a la crypts, templar's lairs, Romulus lairs or Leonardo's machines ( and Kidd's missions in ACIII as well )

The only two I can remember in ACIV that got close to that were the Charlestown mission and the death of Black Beard one.

Now I like open-ended missions, but putting gazillions of tailing missions wasn't exactly the best move either. I'm surprised not too many people are complaining about the amount of tailing missions here.

I think there were FAR TOO many. And reviews mention it too.

I'd rather they made some more cinematic missions ( not too many though). I admit I liked the more cinematic aspect of ACR.

If they could find a right balance between open-endedness and cinematic missions, we could have something amazing. ( ACB was close to it IMO actually).

For example, the last mission where we kill Torres was a little lacking , just some platforming and an air assassination. Not very epic IMO.

That's one of my favorite parts about Black Flag. There were open missions. The scale has been tipped too far the other direction for far too long. Set-piece missions are only good for one time and they often create far too many restrictions - and sometimes, issues - than they are worth. Set pieces also don't have replay value, at all. Once you've done, that cinematic feel is over. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

ACR did not do it well at all. They were many missions that were too restrictive.

Nor should all assassination missions be set-pieces. Fans of AC1 (myself included) have been begging for four years to get main assassinations that are open-ended. Thank god we finally got some. It has much better replay value.

luckyto
11-15-2013, 06:08 PM
Black Flag all around feels a little low-budget I think.

It definitely had less ressources than ACIII.

It doesn't show too much because it had much better direction thanks to Ashraf Ismail, but you can tell it was much less ambitious.

It's definitely not low-budget. It's bigger than ACB or ACR. And AC3, while, I respect the ambition - totally respect the ambition. Was full of buggy and unpolished systems. ACIV is a game where everything is polished, and if it wasn't solid, they removed it. That's professional. It's ok to be ambitious, but at the same time, when you aren't going to get it right; it's best not being in the game at all. Everything Black Flag did - it did it well.

Landruner
11-15-2013, 06:16 PM
I read quite a few reviews complaining about having too many tailing missions as well.

And tailing isn't exactly open-ended. They're the WORST kind of missions IMO. I didn't really enjoy story missions too much actually.

Those missions are the worst because they are set with the same design structure and AI that the free roam (open world), and they set a timer that stresses the all fun to do those. Just hiding behind a wall makes the timer starts, which does not make any sense. Most of the time those tailing missions are set in the design general of the game, and not in specific design made for that mission, and the all stuff become random and a mini-game of trial and errors. Player are no choice other than being forced into that annoying path and it removes the fun.

Yes, they were a way too many of those in AC3, a lot of people complained about it, and a lot of reviewers guessed that feedback of those complaints had been taken seriously for AC4.

And I agree with you, and most of the people that complaint and I agree with most of the reviewers that mentioned this in their reviews, the Assassin Creed seems very limited in their intention of gaming structure and notably for the Assassin's parts (For AC4 only the pirate activities were cool and great, but the assassin parts and mission were a let down) - It seems that the game designers for that franchise can't any longer consider an Assassin mission without including a tail mission or a race in the mission structure and it becomes boring.

The lack of those wonderful puzzle sets (Tombs/Templar lairs) from the Ezio area are cruelly missing either for exploring or even for not being included in the main missions. The lack of this tiny imaginative "craziness" of the Ezio area is missing too - And lake you mentioned in some other threads I read, the Assassin game and the fun of being one is not any longer there.

Landruner
11-15-2013, 06:29 PM
You are right in some points, but I would not say it look low budget, but repetitive time to time yes - (Level design setting).
They were more variety in the resources (meshes, textures, and even idles for the NPCs ) in the previous one that it was in AC4.

Some locations were using exactly the same resources (Fishing villages for instances) with just a different layout, and it seems a bit repetitive effectively.

killzab
11-15-2013, 06:33 PM
It's definitely not low-budget. It's bigger than ACB or ACR. And AC3, while, I respect the ambition - totally respect the ambition. Was full of buggy and unpolished systems. ACIV is a game where everything is polished, and if it wasn't solid, they removed it. That's professional. It's ok to be ambitious, but at the same time, when you aren't going to get it right; it's best not being in the game at all. Everything Black Flag did - it did it well.

No it did not do EVERYTHING well ... what about the AI ? and combat ?

The side missions felt too much like collectathons sometimes. Mayan treasures could have been Mayan tombs or something like that, you know. Nice platforming areas to explore. Like in AC2 or ACR.

And I agree that assassinations should not be button prompts like in AC3, those were awful, but still some could have been a little more scripted to provide a more cinematic effect.

And as I said, TOO MANY DAMN TAILING AND EAVESDROPPING missions !!

Those are NOT open ended, they're as linear as you get !!!! You have to follow the exact same direction as the persons you're tailing at the same pace, if you do not, you get out of the circle and get desynchronized. I hate those missions.

luckyto
11-15-2013, 06:42 PM
AI and Combat and Controls. You are correct. I'll give you that. But it's not so much lack of production quality, as a huge dumbing down and simplification. Yeah, all those areas need work. But really, the AI hasn't really improved since AC1. Combat, ugh, I won't comment on here. And Controls, again, a dumbing down which occurred in ACIII. All of those things are franchise problems, not just Black Flag problems. Except combat. Black Flag and Brotherhood (the two B's) will be the installments where combat was dumbed down for the worst.

On the Mayan Puzzles, I liked them. But I'll be honest, there should have been at least 4-5 which were much more difficult to solve. They were too easy, and thus, a bit repetitive as a result.

As for Tombs, Tombs became Shipwrecks. And many of the Jungle sequences had similar gameplay elements of platform and such. I can think of one Kidd mission in particular that was just like one of the Ezio tombs. I didn't miss them. Been there, done that.

killzab
11-15-2013, 06:46 PM
AI and Combat and Controls. You are correct. I'll give you that. But it's not so much lack of production quality, as a huge dumbing down and simplification. Yeah, all those areas need work. But really, the AI hasn't really improved since AC1. Combat, ugh, I won't comment on here. And Controls, again, a dumbing down which occurred in ACIII. All of those things are franchise problems, not just Black Flag problems. Except combat. Black Flag and Brotherhood (the two B's) will be the installments where combat was dumbed down for the worst.

On the Mayan Puzzles, I liked them. But I'll be honest, there should have been at least 4-5 which were much more difficult to solve. They were too easy, and thus, a bit repetitive as a result.

By lower budget, I didn't mean lack of production quality. Actually production quality was extremely high thanks to Ashraf and Jean.

But the devs definitely had to make do with what they had, unlike AC3 where they actually had TOO MANY resources lol.