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View Full Version : Did they remove "crouch running"? *SPOILERS*



Miaauw
11-11-2013, 11:25 PM
Hi guys, nearly done with the game on Xbox (I won't be playing it again until it unlocks on the 22. for pc, wanna save the last for the best experience possible :))

I remember seeing in the various gameplay walkthroughs before release of Edward kinda "running" whilst crouched when he moved from bush to bush. I've tried EVERYTHING to accomplish this ingame but to no avail. Tried holding RT slighty, holding A whilst going out of the bush, clicking various buttons and also inside a prohibited area. Can anyone actualyl clarify if it's still in the game, and if so, how to do it? Unless it's a "Next-Gen feature"? (LOL)

ACfan443
11-11-2013, 11:32 PM
Yes, Darby confirmed it on twitter, he said it raised confusion amongst play testers because they assumed crouching outside of foliage made them immune to detection.

phoenix-force411
11-11-2013, 11:36 PM
I still wonder how people are beam shimming at moderate speed and not at full running speed...

Landruner
11-11-2013, 11:36 PM
Yes, Darby confirmed it on twitter, he said it raised confusion amongst play testers because they assumed crouching outside of foliage made them immune to detection.

Yes and sadly it was the dumbest move they could do since the gameplay demo.

Miaauw
11-11-2013, 11:37 PM
Really? REALLY? Who did they have for playtesting?

That's a pretty big bummer for me. It's a little detail, but it added a little more immersion in a game they wanted to make a stealth-viable game..

Landruner
11-12-2013, 12:07 AM
Really? REALLY? Who did they have for playtesting?

That's a pretty big bummer for me. It's a little detail, but it added a little more immersion in a game they wanted to make a stealth-viable game..

I know what you feel, (Professional critics were laughing to the biasing move too...and I stop there because I do not want to sound condescending)

In short, Edward like is grand son looks pretty dumb, while he does not crouch and he stands like an idiot ready to get spotted to go to another bushes, but their beta testers (ubisof'st employees btw) did not like it like it was in the demos... But console yourself Miaauw, at least, not like AC3 they beta tested the game before release.
In short, with the auto-crouching unnatural and non functional like it is. Well, we did not see such bad stealth since the "2008 Viking: Battle for Asgard" that used the same auto crouching system as AC3 & 4 (Viking: Battle for Asgard was Highly criticized game back 5 years for its poor Stealth system....)

phoenix-force411
11-12-2013, 12:17 AM
I know what you feel, (Professional critics were laughing to the biasing move too...and I stop there because I do not want to sound condescending)

In short, Edward like is grand son looks pretty dumb, while he does not crouch and he stands like an idiot ready to get spotted to go to another bushes, but their beta testers (ubisof'st employees btw) did not like it like it was in the demos... But console yourself Miaauw, at least, not like AC3 they beta tested the game before release.
In short, with the auto-crouching unnatural and non functional like it is. Well, we did not see such bad stealth since the "2008 Viking: Battle for Asgard" that used the same auto crouching system as AC3 & 4 (Viking: Battle for Asgard was Highly criticized game back 5 years for its poor Stealth system....)
The final product of ACIII was sort of like the Watered down version of the E3 Demo. If they were to incorporate crouching, they'd need to re-position Eagle Vision to another button....

killzab
11-12-2013, 12:21 AM
Or use R3 ...

phoenix-force411
11-12-2013, 12:43 AM
Or use R3 ...
R3 is used to recenter camera...

killzab
11-12-2013, 12:45 AM
R3 is used to recenter camera...

Didn't even know that lol, never used it. Wouldn't be missed too much in favour of crouching !

Crouching would be SOOOO useful dammit !

Landruner
11-12-2013, 01:45 AM
The final product of ACIII was sort of like the Watered down version of the E3 Demo. If they were to incorporate crouching, they'd need to re-position Eagle Vision to another button....

Please stop there because I am laughing!!!! Killab did not know what the R3 stands for because recentering the damned camera is very useful in AC4 isn't? LOL! Sure we needed a camera center instead of a simple crouch button for the stealth?

LONG STORY SHORT: it had been since 2010 after AC2 that "anyone" told them to put a crouch and stealth button - back in time they did not want because.... Ezio should not crouch? - So according to Ubisoft; Italian Noble & Assassins of the 15th century Renaissance historically speaking, well they did not crouch! obviously not since according to UBISOFT crouching was not made for Ezio? LOL!

Then after ACR and still having ton of people asking them "Please Put a Damned Crouch Button!" they finally said that AC3 will have a crouching button and the stealth higly will be improved with shadow and light stealth (a la Thief) and blablabla.... However; still in the quest of looking for the dumbest gameplay moves they could make ever, they turn the asked crouch button into an automatic crouching..., and they came with that feature not because it was enough space on a controller or whatsoever, they came with this just because they were afraid that the players will get confused with the crouching button when they are supposed or not to use it (???) So, obviously still according to Ubisoft, Assassin creed's players are too Dumb idiots to use stealth and they need guidance for crouching in their game (???) LOL!

Anyway they got the feedback from AC3, and then on e more time, they promised to improve the crouching and overhaul the stealth as well - In short they just added bushes and turned sown the IA instead of adding that damned crouching button.
After they show the gameplay demo and people were wondering do we have that damned crouching button because Edward seemed to be bending and running while crouching? Nope still not it is still automatic and even worse, they removed the damned bending animation because their office employees from Ubisoft space office workers they used for beta testing did not know how to play the game...(?) LOL

Honestly, I think that franchise needs help or start listening the feedback - The auto-crouching from AC3 & AC4 is the dumbest move in the video gaming industry since the stupid Peter Molyneux 'sanctuary from Fable 3. It is time that they learn....

Kagurra
11-12-2013, 01:51 AM
R3 is used to recenter camera...

Never, ever, ever use that feature in all my hours playing every single main AC game.

xx-pyro
11-12-2013, 02:03 AM
I'm confused why do we need a crouch button.. what purpose does that hold/how does it enhance gameplay?

Kagurra
11-12-2013, 02:06 AM
I don't have a problem with the way it is now at all, I just never use that center camera feature.

xx-pyro
11-12-2013, 02:07 AM
I don't have a problem with the way it is not at all, I just never use that center camera feature.

No I agree I rarely use the feature and that button could definitely be used for something else, I just don't understand why people are advocating for a crouch button that brings nothing to the table. This isn't a TES game where when you hit crouch you become invisible to the enemy, crouching would be virtually useless unless you're in a stalking zone, which, as it happens, already has crouching animations.

Kagurra
11-12-2013, 02:10 AM
No I agree I rarely use the feature and that button could definitely be used for something else, I just don't understand why people are advocating for a crouch button that brings nothing to the table. This isn't a TES game where when you hit crouch you become invisible to the enemy, crouching would be virtually useless unless you're in a stalking zone, which, as it happens, already has crouching animations.

Agreed. I didn't even like the crouching animation they had as it is. It was the same animation as that one you see alot when you use a viewpoint. I've never loved that crouching position/animation.

xx-pyro
11-12-2013, 02:13 AM
Agreed. I didn't even like the crouching animation they had as it is. It was the same animation as that one you see alot when you use a viewpoint. I've never loved that crouching position/animation.

I don't mind the animation so much because you're generally covered by the bushes and so it's pretty tough to see anyways, not enough that I'd advocate changing it at any rate, however it could use some work.

It just confounds me that people are asking for a crouch button when a crouch button would require a total overhaul to how stealth works (and if it moves it in any direction towards the way TES works, no thanks).

Landruner
11-12-2013, 02:14 AM
I'm confused why do we need a crouch button.. what purpose does that hold/how does it enhance gameplay?

Well it enhance a bit, it is cool to have a crouching option for a stealth game. You know having the ability to discreetly snaking your prey like a predator, or sort of - I mean any so called stealth gameplay usually comes with the steal/snake/crouching option, that enhance the immersion of being snaky and unseen before striking.

killzab
11-12-2013, 02:16 AM
Crouching would allow hiding behind low objects like crates. It would BE useful. Plus it would look better than casually walking in a restricted area.

xx-pyro
11-12-2013, 02:17 AM
Well it enhance a bit, it is cool to have a crouching option for a stealth game. You know having the ability to discreetly snaking your prey like a predator, or sort of - I mean any so called stealth gameplay usually comes with the steal/snake/crouching option, that enhance the immersion of being snaky and unseen before striking.

That's what stalking zones are used for. Crouching in random places doesn't make you more stealthy, in fact it does quite the opposite. Crouching contextually like AC3 and AC4 allow makes a lot more sense.

xx-pyro
11-12-2013, 02:18 AM
Crouching would allow hiding behind low objects like crates. It would BE useful. Plus it would look better than casually walking in a restricted area.

Crouching into a restricted area in plain sight doesn't make you any more stealthy. As for the low objects like crates, there's an idea that we can actually work with. Perhaps instead of a button used for crouching, they can add animations behind crates and such objects so that when you are behind them they act as a hiding spot, similar to stalking zones except obviously you can't go through them.

Kagurra
11-12-2013, 02:23 AM
Crouching into a restricted area in plain sight doesn't make you any more stealthy. As for the low objects like crates, there's an idea that we can actually work with. Perhaps instead of a button used for crouching, they can add animations behind crates and such objects so that when you are behind them they act as a hiding spot, similar to stalking zones except obviously you can't go through them.

Or just like what Edward/Connor does when you go by a corner. They lean up against it and use it as cover, same could be done for boxes and such.

xx-pyro
11-12-2013, 02:25 AM
Or just like what Edward/Connor does when you go by a corner. They lean up against it and use it as cover, same could be done for boxes and such.

Exactly the image I had in my head :p

Landruner
11-12-2013, 02:34 AM
That's what stalking zones are used for. Crouching in random places doesn't make you more stealthy, in fact it does quite the opposite. Crouching contextually like AC3 and AC4 allow makes a lot more sense.

Look XXPRO, I don't want to be obnoxious or anything with you, but 90 % of the time you post you mostly disagree with anyone that posts about anything or you try to turn people into Pet's food's cans their comments in order to make they feel they are idiots and you a smart ***. So, do we have to apologize to you for having some opinions, desires and some ideas, or we simply go somewhere else that you can breath your selfish victory alone on that forum? Please let us know or just pass your way because we don't need your input there.

xx-pyro
11-12-2013, 02:42 AM
Look XXPRO, I don't want to be obnoxious or anything with you, but 90 % of the time you post you mostly disagree with anyone that posts about anything or you try to turn people into Pet's food's cans their comments in order to make they feel they are idiots and you a smart ***. So, do we have to apologize to you for having some opinions, desires and some ideas, or we simply go somewhere else that you can breath your selfish victory alone on that forum? Please let us know or just pass your way because we don't need your input there.

I disagree with everyone? That's funny because my post a few posts above starts with "Exactly," and the couple posts above that are me directly agreeing with another forum poster. This is a public forum and if I do disagree with someone I'm allowed to do that as much as I want so long as I'm not breaking rules. I'm not trying to make anyone feel like an idiot, if there is a point I wish to argue, then I'll argue it if I feel strongly enough about it. Otherwise, I likely won't be posting on the topic. If there's something I agree with or would like to expand on, I'll do that as well. I don't argue for the sake of arguing, this is a public discussion board and my opinion is as valid as anyone's so long as it breaks no rules. Nowhere did I ask anyone to apologize (lol), nor do I consider arguing with anyone a "victory".

Just because you're upset that I have different views on most things than you, doesn't put you above me in any way or make my opinion(s) any less valid. Thanks for taking the time to read all my posts and feel so attached though, you flatter me. :o

Landruner
11-12-2013, 02:49 AM
I disagree with everyone? That's funny because my post a few posts above starts with "Exactly," and the couple posts above that are me directly agreeing with another forum poster. This is a public forum and if I do disagree with someone I'm allowed to do that as much as I want so long as I'm not breaking rules. I'm not trying to make anyone feel like an idiot, if there is a point I wish to argue, then I'll argue it if I feel strongly enough about it. Otherwise, I likely won't be posting on the topic. If there's something I agree with or would like to expand on, I'll do that as well. I don't argue for the sake of arguing, this is a public discussion board and my opinion is as valid as anyone's so long as it breaks no rules. Nowhere did I ask anyone to apologize (lol), nor do I consider arguing with anyone a "victory".

Just because you're upset that I have different views on most things than you, doesn't put you above me in any way or make my opinion(s) any less valid. Thanks for taking the time to read all my posts and feel so attached though, you flatter me. :o

Yep here we go again you bias the topic in returning the ball to the sender, but you know what I meant, so please...like I said be smart *** and enjoy it,,,, I did not have to look for to your posts pretentious since you are all other the place bringing each time your little comments charged of negativity - I am not upset and I am laughing because the fact that you responded to me shows me what you are worth...

xx-pyro
11-12-2013, 02:56 AM
Yep here we go again you bias the topic in returning the ball to the sender, but you know what I meant, so please...like I said be smart *** and enjoy it,,,, and I am not upset and I am laughing because the fact that you responded to me shows me what you are worth...

If you'd like to insult me more you can do so via my personal message inbox :D

Landruner
11-12-2013, 03:18 AM
Anyway,,, the all point is that for that Game again, Ubisoft did not implant one more time that crouching button nor did not improve the stealth like we were expecting since Last E3 event. most of us also regret that damned crouch button is still not there.

MnemonicSyntax
11-12-2013, 07:06 AM
Anyway,,, the all point is that for that Game again, Ubisoft did not implant one more time that crouching button nor did not improve the stealth like we were expecting since Last E3 event. most of us also regret that damned crouch button is still not there.

Most of us who? I think a crouch button is fairly pointless as well, considering the stalking zones take care of the issue of stealth just fine. I also agree that waist high boxes, crates, etc. could have the same thing done to them when you lean against a corner, but do it crouched. There's no button necessary for that. You'd have to press the button, then lean against the wall.

Fix other things, like navmesh. Sometimes in 4, I can't get Edward to know the difference between come here and sic 'em, as he's all over the place.

Your first post was somewhat threatening as well, as if because you weren't happy, some lesson had to be taught. That's not an opinion, neither is saying "most of us regret..." That's speaking for others. Please stop doing that.

Landruner
11-12-2013, 07:24 AM
Most of us who? I think a crouch button is fairly pointless as well, considering the stalking zones take care of the issue of stealth just fine. I also agree that waist high boxes, crates, etc. could have the same thing done to them when you lean against a corner, but do it crouched. There's no button necessary for that. You'd have to press the button, then lean against the wall.

Fix other things, like navmesh. Sometimes in 4, I can't get Edward to know the difference between come here and sic 'em, as he's all over the place.

Your first post was somewhat threatening as well, as if because you weren't happy, some lesson had to be taught. That's not an opinion, neither is saying "most of us regret..." That's speaking for others. Please stop doing that.

Nope they were some reasons I posted this and said "we" above, and it had been talked over and over in different occasion or events with the different Devs for each entry of this franchise since Brotherhood - You just jump on the train and you do not know whom is from or what it was about - (It was a good war and Ubisoft knows it, critics are constructive not discriminative, and no harm was made there) - What you said is true for the Navmesh and collision Box, but it should have been improved, it is just like this because it had not been designed like this, but it does not mean it was not possible to improve it, they just did not....
However with the game structure, layout and else, and also the AI's designation, the Crouching option (Meaning that players press a button for the stealth mod and crouching or stalking instead to have it automatic) could have been cumbersome in this configuration (Maybe?) -The all stealth mission design(s) should have been overhauled and improved for a better experience.

Now, if I chocked you, well I am sorry, just report me to the moderators and get me banished...

Vzmike
11-12-2013, 09:17 AM
I mean I could see a purpose behind it if you really wanted to get immersive in the stealth feature, but think about how most of the areas are designed. If there's not a hay stack or bush to auto crouch in there's usually a set of boxes high enough for you to conceal your entire body without the need of crouching, or something to climb on to get a birds eye view. If you're in an enemies line of sight, crouch or not, they're going to see you.

It CAN add a bit of diversity given the correct layouts in future AC locations where being stealthy is recommended/required, but for the current games and how everything is designed it would be pretty useless. That was probably what lead to it's eventual rubbing out on the dev's to-do list...it's not a game-making component nor a game-selling component, and there's quite a bit to be worked around for it to be there. Not worth it in their eyes, that's just the bare bones of it.

shobhit7777777
11-12-2013, 01:55 PM
The franchise desperately needs a dedicated crouch button with an overhauled LOS system....especially if the developers intend to continue with the "stealth" gameplay which first popped its head in AC2 but peaked with AC4

Some people want crouch
Some people don't feel its necessary
Developers don't know what to do - designing LOS stealth maps and missions for a game designed primarily for social stealth

Decide AssCreed...decide what kind of game you are.
And Devs please play to the franchise's strengths.....after FC3, Blacklist and a slew of other solid, exceptionally deep and robust stealth/action games AC4 comes off like a dinosaur.


I mean I could see a purpose behind it if you really wanted to get immersive in the stealth feature, but think about how most of the areas are designed. If there's not a hay stack or bush to auto crouch in there's usually a set of boxes high enough for you to conceal your entire body without the need of crouching, or something to climb on to get a birds eye view. If you're in an enemies line of sight, crouch or not, they're going to see you.

It CAN add a bit of diversity given the correct layouts in future AC locations where being stealthy is recommended/required, but for the current games and how everything is designed it would be pretty useless. That was probably what lead to it's eventual rubbing out on the dev's to-do list...it's not a game-making component nor a game-selling component, and there's quite a bit to be worked around for it to be there. Not worth it in their eyes, that's just the bare bones of it.

Wrong

If that is indeed how the devs feel - I completely disagree with them. And apparently they do...so no surprise it fails to impress.

At this point its near mandatory given the Maps and missions Ubi themselves designed. It doesn't take much imagination to see how crouching - given the massive emphasis on MGS like stealth the franchise is seeing - would be a breath of fresh air and make stealth not only more accessible but that much more deep.

Low walls, rock formations, crates, rooftops - TONNES of places I wish I could've crouch...lowered my silhouette and avoided that annoying ****ing wig wearing creep

Ubisoft is making a stealth game devoid of mandatory stealth systems

AssassinHMS
11-12-2013, 02:21 PM
The franchise desperately needs a dedicated crouch button with an overhauled LOS system....especially if the developers intend to continue with the "stealth" gameplay which first popped its head in AC2 but peaked with AC4

Some people want crouch
Some people don't feel its necessary
Developers don't know what to do - designing LOS stealth maps and missions for a game designed primarily for social stealth

Decide AssCreed...decide what kind of game you are.
And Devs please play to the franchise's strengths.....after FC3, Blacklist and a slew of other solid, exceptionally deep and robust stealth/action games AC4 comes off like a dinosaur.



Wrong

If that is indeed how the devs feel - I completely disagree with them. And apparently they do...so no surprise it fails to impress.

At this point its near mandatory given the Maps and missions Ubi themselves designed. It doesn't take much imagination to see how crouching - given the massive emphasis on MGS like stealth the franchise is seeing - would be a breath of fresh air and make stealth not only more accessible but that much more deep.

Low walls, rock formations, crates, rooftops - TONNES of places I wish I could've crouch...lowered my silhouette and avoided that annoying ****ing wig wearing creep

Ubisoft is making a stealth game devoid of mandatory stealth systems

This post!


Decide AssCreed...decide what kind of game you are.

And especially this! It's time to choose Ubisoft. Either you choose casual gaming or a real Assassin's Creed franchise. All I know is that I'm not interested in historical tourism with assassins thrown into it. I want a real stealth game (shadow based stealth mechanics could also work), a real combat system (because, right now, this is nothing but a cheap slaughter system) and much better navigation (and not simply hold a trigger and watch). Oh, and bring the old pure, dark and mysterious Assassinís Creed essence back.

MnemonicSyntax
11-12-2013, 03:02 PM
Nope they were some reasons I posted this and said "we" above, and it had been talked over and over in different occasion or events with the different Devs for each entry of this franchise since Brotherhood - You just jump on the train and you do not know whom is from or what it was about - (It was a good war and Ubisoft knows it, critics are constructive not discriminative, and no harm was made there) - What you said is true for the Navmesh and collision Box, but it should have been improved, it is just like this because it had not been designed like this, but it does not mean it was not possible to improve it, they just did not....
However with the game structure, layout and else, and also the AI's designation, the Crouching option (Meaning that players press a button for the stealth mod and crouching or stalking instead to have it automatic) could have been cumbersome in this configuration (Maybe?) -The all stealth mission design(s) should have been overhauled and improved for a better experience.

Now, if I chocked you, well I am sorry, just report me to the moderators and get me banished...

I'm well aware of the crouching button fiasco. It was tried by Ubisoft and it was found to not be ideal by the playtesters.

You cannot seriously expect to have a public discussion on a public forum and not expect public responses. I have a right to my opinion just as you do yours.

The stealth system as is, is just fine. Crouching outside of stalking zones may look cool and fit the role play aesthetic, but it won't keep you blended, so beyond for "looks" what else would it do?

Lastly, if you feel your post was report worthy, then perhaps you should reevaluate your posts before clicking that blue button.

Landruner
11-12-2013, 03:54 PM
I'm well aware of the crouching button fiasco. It was tried by Ubisoft and it was found to not be ideal by the playtesters.

You cannot seriously expect to have a public discussion on a public forum and not expect public responses. I have a right to my opinion just as you do yours.

The stealth system as is, is just fine. Crouching outside of stalking zones may look cool and fit the role play aesthetic, but it won't keep you blended, so beyond for "looks" what else would it do?

Lastly, if you feel your post was report worthy, then perhaps you should reevaluate your posts before clicking that blue button.

Like I said above, you just jumped in the train without knowing what was written before or said before or whom is from...and you missed the point as well (including the member of that forum I had some exchanges with on that same thread) - I would add besides they were even people of that same thread agreed with the lack on this crouching button and the lack of gameplay's restructures of the stealth layout and design missions. Anyway I respect your opinion and have a good day as well.