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View Full Version : The AC2 Challenge and Changed Impressions on Replay *SPOILERS*



BATISTABUS
11-11-2013, 07:51 PM
Is AC2 your favorite Assassin's Creed game? Was the last time you played it over 2 years ago? If so, I very much encourage you to play it again, especially if you just finished playing AC4. That's all this challenge is....just play AC2 again. Shouldn't be much of a problem if you consider it your favorite game in the franchise.

A large portion of this fan base seems to have an insane amount of nostalgia for this game, giving it undeserved praise in many areas. It's not that I don't understand this...AC2 has the most beautiful cities, pretty great atmosphere, and awesome tombs, and is overall a great game. At the time of playing it, I considered it my favorite game (which was then replaced by Brotherhood). When I replayed it before AC3 came out, I found it MUCH worse in just about every aspect. This weekend when my friend decided to pick it up, he couldn't even make it out of Firenze before giving up, and I can't really blame him. Has anyone else replayed a game and got a vastly different impression the second time around? If you replay it and love it just as much or even more than before, that's good for you. Even so, nostalgia goggles can be dangerous when applied to the present (in politics and games).

Here is how my opinion's changed about the game after a replay.

AC1: MUCH Better on Replay (I loved it before, but missed out on the entire Altair character development bit, didn't feel as repetitive)
AC2: MUCH WORSE on Replay (story and characters were the most disappointing)
ACB: MUCH WORSE on Replay (everything I saw as an improvement initially turned out to be excess and making the game easier, story was lame)
ACR: Slightly Better on Replay (felt better, story/music better than I initially thought, favorite Ezio game)

Pre-replay favorite game list:

ACB > AC2 > AC1 > ACR

Current list:

AC1 = ACIV (still up for debate) > AC3 > AC2 > ACB (only because of multiplayer on release, otherwise it'd be last) > ACR

luckyto
11-11-2013, 08:10 PM
Spot on. I read comments about AC2 and AC1 (which is my favorite); but it's almost as if people who make said comments haven't even played it in three years. Black Flag dominates AC2, ACB, ACR and AC3 in every single category. AC3 is the only one that does combat better, but in every other aspect, Black Flag is king. I loved AC2, but if you've played it within the last year, it wouldn't have the high bar that most people give it. Great game, but certainly not the best in the series.

AC1 has been the only one to really hold up on replay, because it was the last one with open-ended missions. Black Flag now takes that title.

xx-pyro
11-11-2013, 08:12 PM
ACB was probably the MOST replayable game until AC4 came out, besides that I agree with everything you said.

phoenix-force411
11-11-2013, 08:12 PM
ACB's pretty boring to be honest....and I think people underrate ACR too much....ACII is still the best for me....Haven't beaten ACIV yet....

dxsxhxcx
11-11-2013, 08:30 PM
I played AC2 before AC3's release and loved every single bit of it, the story and its pace are really good and even if the combat isn't as fluid as ACB/R due to the lack of killstreaks I still had a lot of fun with it, AC1 is also great because it gives the player a total different experience from its successors and the atmosphere of that game still is the best of all AC games... I played ACB/R a few times after their release but they get boring pretty fast (especially ACB, I just can't stand Cesare and Ezio was pretty boring in that game as well) if compared to AC1/2 (ACR still is better than ACB though) , AC3 I only played once and I don't dare to play that game again (even thinking Connor is a great character)...


replay-value:
AC2/AC1 > ACR > ACB/AC3

SixKeys
11-11-2013, 08:59 PM
I replay all the games pretty much whenever I feel like it. My opinion about AC2 hasn't changed much since the first time I played it. The first time I played it, I was actually slightly let down because the atmosphere was so different from AC1, but I still love the story. The only things dragging it down are the inability to replay memories and the dated graphics.

I fall in love with ACB all over again upon each replay. AC4 is gonna have a hard time beating it.

ACR has risen slightly in my estimation only in comparison with AC3, but on its own it's still a weak (yet beautiful) game.

I did find that AC3 is more fun if you pretty much ignore the story and any attempt at stealth and just go around randomly starting fights. It's like that's what the game was designed for.

Farlander1991
11-11-2013, 09:01 PM
I'll just pull a shameless plug and will leave this here. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/804832-Mini-blog-series-based-on-Assassin-s-Creed-II)

Though, I wouldn't say it's really hard to go through Firenze, but on the other hand, I haven't replayed the game fully in at least a year or so.

One thing I want to say, though, is that after AC3 running in AC1-ACR feels sluggish to me. And it's related to the animations really, the way Connor's run is animated and how it reacts to your directional movements.

luckyto
11-11-2013, 09:06 PM
I did find that AC3 is more fun if you pretty much ignore the story and any attempt at stealth and just go around randomly starting fights. It's like that's what the game was designed for

YES! AC1 was king. AC3 became a close second. Yes. Good stuff.

SixKeys
11-11-2013, 09:09 PM
I'll just pull a shameless plug and will leave this here. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/804832-Mini-blog-series-based-on-Assassin-s-Creed-II)

Though, I wouldn't say it's really hard to go through Firenze, but on the other hand, I haven't replayed the game fully in at least a year or so.

One thing I want to say, though, is that after AC3 running in AC1-ACR feels sluggish to me. And it's related to the animations really, the way Connor's run is animated and how it reacts to your directional movements.

I have the exact opposite reaction to freerunning in earlier games vs. AC3. I freaking hate parkour in AC3; I actually go out of my way to avoid anything that looks like a climbable object (in the cities, not in the Frontier) because Connor has the tendency to climb on every box and market stall in sight even if I'm not directing him anywhere near them. When I went back to ACB recently, I remembered the joy of freerunning in AC again because of the controls being so nice and precise. Can't accidentally run up a wall if I'm not pressing Space, can't accidentally jump off a building unless I specifically tell the assassin to, and so on. Connor seemed to just do whatever the hell he liked regardless of my input. How many times were my attempts at a stealthy ledge assassination ruined by Connor not stopping his climbing when I told him to, but kept on climbing until he jumped right in front of the guard's face? With Ezio (and Altaïr), I can just keep on gently tapping the up button and they will grab hold of footholds one step at a time. So strict, so controlled, so precise. I love it.

Farlander1991
11-11-2013, 09:13 PM
I have the exact opposite reaction to freerunning in earlier games vs. AC3. I freaking hate parkour in AC3; I actually go out of my way to avoid anything that looks like a climbable obect (in the cities, not in the Fronier) because Connor has the tendency to climb on every box and market stall in sight even if I'm not directing him anywhere near them. When I went back to ACB recently, I remembered the joy of freerunning in AC again because of the controls being so nice and precise. Can't accidentally run up a wall if I'm not pressing Space, can't accidentally jump off a building unless I specifically tell the assassin to, and so on. Connor seemed to just do whatever the hell he like regardless of my input. How many times were my attempts at a stealthy ledge assassination ruined by Connor not stopping him climbing when I told him to, but kept on climbing until he jumped right in front of the guard's face? With Ezio (and Altaïr), I can just keep on gently tapping the up button and they will grab hold of footholds one step at a time. So strict, so controlled, so precise. I love it.

Well, I wasn't talking about the parkour in general, just about the, well, running :D

Though I never had problems with Connor not going where I wanted him to, but I've seen people who do so I understand perfectly that the problem's there.

Landruner
11-11-2013, 09:17 PM
Is AC2 your favorite Assassin's Creed game? Was the last time you played it over 2 years ago? If so, I very much encourage you to play it again, especially if you just finished playing AC4. That's all this challenge is....just play AC2 again. Shouldn't be much of a problem if you consider it your favorite game in the franchise.

A large portion of this fan base seems to have an insane amount of nostalgia for this game, giving it undeserved praise in many areas. It's not that I don't understand this...AC2 has the most beautiful cities, pretty great atmosphere, and awesome tombs, and is overall a great game. At the time of playing it, I considered it my favorite game (which was then replaced by Brotherhood). When I replayed it before AC3 came out, I found it MUCH worse in just about every aspect. This weekend when my friend decided to pick it up, he couldn't even make it out of Firenze before giving up, and I can't really blame him. Has anyone else replayed a game and got a vastly different impression the second time around? If you replay it and love it just as much or even more than before, that's good for you. Even so, nostalgia goggles can be dangerous when applied to the present (in politics and games).

Here is how my opinion's changed about the game after a replay.

AC1: MUCH Better on Replay (I loved it before, but missed out on the entire Altair character development bit, didn't feel as repetitive)
AC2: MUCH WORSE on Replay (story and characters were the most disappointing)
ACB: MUCH WORSE on Replay (everything I saw as an improvement initially turned out to be excess and making the game easier, story was lame)
ACR: Slightly Better on Replay (felt better, story/music better than I initially thought, favorite Ezio game)

Pre-replay favorite game list:

ACB > AC2 > AC1 > ACR

Current list:

AC1 = ACIV (still up for debate) > AC3 > AC2 > ACB (only because of multiplayer on release, otherwise it'd be last) > ACR

I just replayed the all AC series from scratch over the 2 past months, and sorry AC2 and ACB are the best games of the series to me.

SixKeys
11-11-2013, 09:17 PM
BTW, am I the only one who dislikes the way Desmond and Connor change directions when walking in AC3? I mean that little animation they do with their feet when you make them change directions. I know they did it to make it look more smooth or realistic, but it just feels more sluggish. I actually preferred the old way when there was no special animation.

phoenix-force411
11-11-2013, 09:19 PM
I have the exact opposite reaction to freerunning in earlier games vs. AC3. I freaking hate parkour in AC3; I actually go out of my way to avoid anything that looks like a climbable object (in the cities, not in the Frontier) because Connor has the tendency to climb on every box and market stall in sight even if I'm not directing him anywhere near them. When I went back to ACB recently, I remembered the joy of freerunning in AC again because of the controls being so nice and precise. Can't accidentally run up a wall if I'm not pressing Space, can't accidentally jump off a building unless I specifically tell the assassin to, and so on. Connor seemed to just do whatever the hell he liked regardless of my input. How many times were my attempts at a stealthy ledge assassination ruined by Connor not stopping his climbing when I told him to, but kept on climbing until he jumped right in front of the guard's face? With Ezio (and Altaïr), I can just keep on gently tapping the up button and they will grab hold of footholds one step at a time. So strict, so controlled, so precise. I love it.
ACB's free running was a teeny-bit sloppier than ACII's, whereas ACR's was the worse, but not as worse as AC1's since AC1's had problems with stability that made Altair seem laggy...

SixKeys
11-11-2013, 09:24 PM
ACB's free running was a teeny-bit sloppier than ACII's, whereas ACR's was the worse, but not as worse as AC1's since AC1's had problems with stability that made Altair seem laggy...

I never noticed any difference between AC2 and ACB's freerunning. Never had any lag with AC1 either, maybe because I played on PC? I agree ACR's felt worse than all of them though. The hookblade wasn't as smooth to use as it should have been, many times I actually chose to not use it, especially when climbing those tall minarets. It was actually faster and less frustrating not to use the hookblade. :p

BATISTABUS
11-11-2013, 09:24 PM
since AC1's had problems with stability that made Altair seem laggy...
Maybe on the PS3. Altair's animations (especially on his outfit) look amazing.

Even though every single game afterwards tried to speed up the free-running and climbing, I really like how it was in AC1. Instead of just running at a building and climbing it in a straight line, you actually felt like you accomplished something when climbing (especially the super high structures). ACIV actually seemed to go back to this, so I'm really happy about that.


BTW, am I the only one who dislikes the way Desmond and Connor change directions when walking in AC3? I mean that little animation they do with their feet when you make them change directions. I know they did it to make it look more smooth or realistic, but it just feels more sluggish. I actually preferred the old way when there was no special animation.
Sorry, I'm in love with everything animation-wise in AC3.

Sushiglutton
11-11-2013, 09:28 PM
Hmmm I might actually take you up on that challenge, haven't replayed AC2 in a couple of years. If it is more poorly paced and hand-holdy than AC3 I will be in total shock.


Well, I wasn't talking about the parkour in general, just about the, well, running :D

Though I never had problems with Connor not going where I wanted him to, but I've seen people who do so I understand perfectly that the problem's there.

Have to admit I find that a little hard to believe. That Connor never in like what 50h+ have runned up a fence you didn't want (or some other geometry in the enviroment) that sounds impossible to me. In many situations it's a tiny, tiny difference in the degree you hold the stick between various moves. I guess if you are real careful and walk a lot it could be done.

lothario-da-be
11-11-2013, 09:29 PM
Only my ipressions of ac1 and acr became much better. The rest kinda steyed the same. Ac3 was a bit less good on my 2nd playthrough maybe. But not that much differince.

SixKeys
11-11-2013, 09:30 PM
Hmmm I might actually take you up on that challenge, haven't replayed AC2 in a couple of years. If it is more poorly paced and hand-holdy than AC3 I will be in total shock.

It's not. It may have other faults, but hand-holding on the level of AC3 is not one of them. (Especially thanks to lack of full synch.) At least AC2's missions don't only consist of "walk 10 meters to initiate next cut scene".

luckyto
11-11-2013, 09:31 PM
AC3 and ACIV both suffer in free-running. Ever since they removed the combination of R1 + X (PS3) for high-profile, it has had issues. Big mistake.

----
I understand AC2 being a favorite. It has great story, great pacing and fairly balanced combat. And the mission structure is very similar to Black Flags (or vice versa really.) Mostly good.

But ugh. ACB. Why? It's story is so cliche, the assassinations have no build-up, the mission requirements are too strict, the combat is way way way way way too easy (and monotonous on top of that), and the environment is one monotone confined space. ACB was like the biggest let-down ever. Ezio was a jerk. It was the beginning of the "Facebook" game mechanic. You were radically OP with Assassins, or without. The economic system allowed anyone to become excessively wealthy in no time with no effort. Leonardo and the Tombs were the only saving grace to that game.

Sushiglutton
11-11-2013, 09:38 PM
It's not. It may have other faults, but hand-holding on the level of AC3 is not one of them. (Especially thanks to lack of full synch.) At least AC2's missions don't only consist of "walk 10 meters to initiate next cut scene".

That's good to hear as I'll start my replay right now :)

SixKeys
11-11-2013, 09:41 PM
That's good to hear as I'll start my replay right now :)

You should post your impressions here, since I think you're one of the few who haven't played AC2 in a while. It would be interesting to hear if your perspectives will have changed.

phoenix-force411
11-11-2013, 09:51 PM
Maybe on the PS3. Altair's animations (especially on his outfit) look amazing.

The animations on his outfit was the best, yes, but it's when he's in the air. When he jumps off a building or cliff, the game stops him at a certain point and then drops him down. It had problems with stabilizing the character in the air, but the air asassinations were fluid than any other game.

Farlander1991
11-11-2013, 09:55 PM
Have to admit I find that a little hard to believe. That Connor never in like what 50h+ have runned up a fence you didn't want (or some other geometry in the enviroment) that sounds impossible to me. In many situations it's a tiny, tiny difference in the degree you hold the stick between various moves. I guess if you are real careful and walk a lot it could be done.

Nope, never had those problems. :p Maybe a few times, certainly not often enough for me to remember. In fact, the problems I had with Connor are exactly the opposite - him not running up where I want him to (like I want to climb some boxes, but instead of climbing them he runs up and falls down like he would on an unclimbable surface). You'd think that with all the feedback about Connor's incredible stickiness and tendency to climb everything, that wouldn't happen.

SixKeys
11-11-2013, 09:55 PM
The animations on his outfit was the best, yes, but it's when he's in the air. When he jumps off a building or cliff, the game stops him at a certain point and then drops him down. It had problems with stabilizing the character in the air, but the air asassinations were fluid than any other game.

I think that may have been a camera limitation. Like the game couldn't properly zoom in above his head when he was doing the leap of faith. You also couldn't look around 360 degrees in haybales, the camera would get stuck on buildings.

BATISTABUS
11-11-2013, 10:00 PM
You should post your impressions here, since I think you're one of the few who haven't played AC2 in a while. It would be interesting to hear if your perspectives will have changed.
I second this.

ACfan443
11-11-2013, 11:10 PM
I've replayed AC1/AC2 multiple times and found myself thoroughly enjoying each and every playthrough. I actually felt the need to cleanse myself after a failed attempt at a second AC3 playthrough, so replaying AC2 and ACB was utterly refreshing. AC2 and AC1 have stood the test against time as the franchise has progressed over the years, and my love for them has remained largely the same. During my playthrough of AC4:BF, I would occasionally boot up AC2 to stack them up and get a feel of differences in atmosphere. Other than the obvious contrast in visuals (which I admit I found to be pretty drastic), AC2's overall atmosphere, free running, cities, particular bits of side content etc were much better than their AC4:BF counterparts. And I assure you, nostalgia isn't skewing my view of the game.

I'd like to expand a little on free running in particular, the overall system present in AC1-ACR was far superior to the latest iteration introduced in AC3. Firstly, I feel the climbing animations have been simplified and don't look anywhere near as natural and realistic as the older ones. Secondly, shooting up buildings with supersonic speed looks incredibly stupid and fantastical, it also destroys a sense of verticality even with the largest of monuments (Cathedral in Havana for example). Finally, the 'automation' removes a great deal of player input and doesn't feel as interactive as the earlier system. Unintentionally climbing onto objects/walls/buildings has also become a bigger problem than before, I find it incredibly difficult at times directing the character to where I intend while free running on buildings, especially with AC4:BF's dense Havana. I realise this particular paragraph isn't strictly related to the topic, but I felt the need to share my views on the subject.

When I have the time I'll definitely try to fit in a full playthrough, it's something I'm now looking forward to.

luckyto
11-12-2013, 12:03 AM
I'd like to expand a little on free running in particular, the overall system present in AC1-ACR was far superior to the latest iteration introduced in AC3. Firstly, I feel the climbing animations have been simplified and don't look anywhere near as natural and realistic as the older ones. Secondly, shooting up buildings with supersonic speed looks incredibly stupid and fantastical, it also destroys a sense of verticality even with the largest of monuments (Cathedral in Havana for example). Finally, the 'automation' removes a great deal of player input and doesn't feel as interactive as the earlier system. Unintentionally climbing onto objects/walls/buildings has also become a bigger problem than before, I find it incredibly difficult at times directing the character to where I intend while free running on buildings, especially with AC4:BF's dense Havana. I realise this particular paragraph isn't strictly related to the topic, but I felt the need to share my views on the subject.


That's one of my two major complaints with Black Flag. But fairly, that began with AC3. It is upsetting to see the franchise to fail in this category (platforming/navigation/responsive controls). It was the one thing that AC was utterly superior to other games in - the characters were a joy to control. Movement in general isn't animated as well, and often is glitchy. Not just free running in cities, but simply moving about on decks, trying to hop off small crates without jumping 10 feet, etc. The problem was amplified in those tight spaces.

Kaschra
11-12-2013, 12:15 AM
I always replay all the games before a new game comes out lol
This is how my opinions changed after the latest replay:

AC1: WORSE AFTER REPLAY (I liked it before, but the repeative mission design gets really boring...)
AC2: STAYED THE SAME AFTER REPLAY (Loved it before, still love it)
ACB: MUCH BETTER AFTER REPLAY (I was really meh on the game before, but this time I REALLY enjoyed it.)
ACR: BETTER AFTER REPLAY (I already loved it before, and my opinion just got better)
AC3: WORSE AFTER REPLAY (I quite liked it before, but now my opinion is just... meh.)

DinoSteve1
11-12-2013, 12:18 AM
Played AC2 last summer and it was still the best game and while I love AC4 I think I'd still be of the same opinion, just cause a game is old doesn't mean its crap.

AdamPearce
11-12-2013, 01:03 AM
I see many person complaining about COnnor jumping all around for no reason because of the new mecanics. But, in fact, that's not the problem. The REAL problem with parkour in ACIII and Black Flag is the amount of stuff in your way. In previous ACs, the streets were clean and the only element to climb on were on the side of the streets so you'd have enough place to pass by it. Now they've put boxes, fences, carts, shops in the middle of the street . If we were in previous AC, Ezio or Altair would'Ve climb on those to because the R1+ X thing was the combo for climbing and sprinting. The only major difference is that you could stop easily by releasing the Leg button.

Also, the roofs designs were pretty linear, you couldn't jump in diagonal for instance and you'd have to follow a lines. In ACIII-Black Flag, you can jump in 360 degrees depending of the presence of an object or not.

The best way imo for the parkour would be to keep the single srint button but climbing would be activated only when pressing the leg button so no more random climb & you keep the possibility to look around. Cause yeah, running in previous Anvil AC was pretty ****ty because you weren't able to look left or right when running...

Another point, the climbing gameplay is to simple in ACIII-Black Flag. You just press the joystick in the direction you want (up, for most of the time) and Connor or Edward does all the job (I will use E. for Ezio and C. for Connor, sick of calling all of them each time). With E. you had to hold the High Profile button for him to climb quickly, otherwise he'd go rock by rock (just like A. in AC1, that's why climbing in AC1 was pretty slow and boring), plus you could use the leg button + free hand button to make big jumps. It was simplify in ACR since you just had to press the Leg button while holding the High profile one. Anyway, by doing so, the climbing felt much more appealing, you had do actually do something with the pad for the character to climb, which was real nice.

I think we could go back to that system cause it was way better imo. We could push it a little bit by using the leg button for jumps instead of HP + L which brought some problem if you didn't had perfect timing. Add to that some failure possibility which would demand reflexes (no QTE, only you having the reflexes of pressing the right button at the right moment) and some single use grip (just like in Prince of Persia, the beam that would shake and destroy itself after some times) to put some challenge some times. To all of this, we could have a rain/ heat/ snow system who'd make the character slip (rain) or go more slowly (heat) or both (snow) for the animations and immersion to look even better. Finally some free inside house gameplay sequence by adding multiple parts in the houses (going by the bathroom, livin room, up-downstairs, kitchen and more) to have some nice times with those, I hated to script they've had with C. Oh and interactive elements of course like slidding down an acute roof + jump on the other surface like roof or even a window who'd bring us into a house and blablabla

Oh yeah, I now enjo AC3 much more after playing Black FLag. :)

Sushiglutton
11-12-2013, 01:54 AM
Ok so I played until you receive the double hidden blade (returning to Florence). I think the game holds up well. I didn't recall that "the tutorial" lasted for so long. It still feels like I'm only playing tutorial missions 3-4h in. This was one of my problems with AC3. I guess it worked better in the second game than the fifth :). Another difference is that the story progresses at a quicker pace. This diminishes the harm of the relatively slow gameplay progress.

As for combat it's not that good, which is how I remembered it. Climbing, platforming I do actually prefer in some ways though. It's a bit slower and requires more input from the player to climb many of the towers. It's not hard, but it feels like you are doing something compared to AC3 where it feel like Connor is doing all the work with fast and big jumps upwards. It's also noce to have the claw back when doing simple stuff like running through doorways.

Graphics are better than I expected. Played AC:R+3 on PC but I still think 2 is a pretty game overall. The streets feel a bit empty for some reason and the crowds are pretty stiff. I can't put my finger on exactly what the difference is, but it feels like AC3 must have had much better crowds performing a wider set of actions and walking more natural paths. I dunno. Facial animations are not good, but I like to have old Desmond back :).

Overall I feel it holds up very well and I intend to keep going!

Megas_Doux
11-12-2013, 02:24 AM
I still replay and freeroam AC1 and AC2, but its sequel......


After Haytham, Charles Lee, Pitcairn, Achilles etc etc etc. I find nearly IMPOSSIBLE watching the poorly and overacted Cesare Borgia and his crew "GUAAAAAAAAAAAAARDS, GUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARDS". Zero grey morals, zero plot twits or surprises, a story for kids, literally......

Besides, Rome is uber dull, its color scheme and all the districts besides Il Vaticano and some of the Landmarks are lame, the only missions I tolerate replay are the Da vinci´s ones, the lairs and killing Cesare. I not even freeroam anymore.

In regards of ACR,..... Underrated, it has grown on me ever since the first time I played it.

luckyto
11-12-2013, 02:35 AM
I still replay and freeroam AC1 and AC2, but its sequel......


After Haytham, Charles Lee, Pitcairn, Achilles etc etc etc. I find nearly IMPOSSIBLE watching the poorly and overacted Cesare Borgia and his crew "GUAAAAAAAAAAAAARDS, GUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARDS". Zero grey morals, zero plot twits or surprises, a story for kids, literally......

Besides, Rome is uber dull, its color scheme and all the districts besides Il Vaticano and some of the Landmarks are lame, the only missions I tolerate replay are the Da vinci´s ones, the lairs and killing Cesare. I not even freeroam anymore.

In regards of ACR,..... Underrated, it has grown on me ever since the first time I played it.

Amen. Brotherhood was garbage.

DisbandedBox359
11-12-2013, 02:49 AM
Always replay the series before a new game so went through them a few months ago

For me AC3-AC2-AC1-ACR-ACB

ace3001
11-12-2013, 03:59 AM
I played AC2 first around the end of 2010, and then replayed it somewhere early in 2011 and did everything that I possibly could in it. I was actually going to replay it this year, and even started playing for a while, but college work got in the way, so I could never get very far. So, yeah, if I don't count that few hours of play that got nowhere, it has been a little over two years.

I haven't played AC4, but I think I can take this challenge on until it actually comes out. Will report back after a while.

BATISTABUS
11-12-2013, 04:15 AM
Since I spoke about my friend quitting after the first couple of sequences, here were my detailed impressions on the re-play.

1. The Escape from Abstergo
Right off the bat, the game starts with some sloppy writing. These characters have their lives (and the lives of others) on the line, and Desmond's already going off with the "DO YOU THINK THEY'RE CALLED ANIMI???" Stupid. Guards don't have guns...whatever, it's the first level and you don't want to screw newcomers already. Lucy's well written/acted for the most part, with some cliche lines thrown in (not going to be too picky about that).

2. The Hideout
Once they get to the hideout, you meet the quick-tongued Brit and the sporty- girl. Sean is played well and rightfully annoyed, but I've always had a problem with Rebecca. Her voice/mannerisms/outfit just scream 1-dimensional "totally radical" character (which I'm pretty annoyed by), and it's not until emails/ACR that she starts becoming more vulnerable.

3. The Birth Scene
Awkward with HORRIBLY rendered characters and animations, but a creative way of introducing the puppeteering system.

4. Boys Will Be Boys
A decent way of introducing how rowdy and charismatic Ezio is. The sexual jokes in the early part of the game were always cringe-worthy for me ("handling" and "outlets"), and they were especially so this time. The race to the top of the tower and the AC2 logo bits I still really enjoyed. Cristina's visit serves as another point as to how carefree Ezio's life is, which could just as easily have been left out. Because of how this was handled in Brotherhood/Revelations, I'm glad it was included.

5. Chores for the Fam
These chores give you a sense of Ezio's family life, a view of the beautiful city, and a sneak peak into events about to unfold. It's fun to beat on Duccio and I like that Ezio stands up for his little sister, but how Claudia reacts to the whole situation is a little too simple and caricature-like (huh huh young idiot girl love). I'm not sure why the feather mission was timed, so that was kind of weird. Petruccio's eyes look creepy as ****. Maria comes off as a strong woman, but her role was never meant to be of that much importance, so it's okay that they skimped on her. I like that he is aloof, but Leonardo just comes off as a bit more boring than I remember (although I still laughed at the finger joke). Maybe it's the performance. Uberto Alberti's face seems to be animated more realistically than anyone elses. Having Rodrigo mysteriously looming in the background of that scene made it SO obvious that Ezio was about to be betrayed.

6. The Hanging
Surprise, Ezio is betrayed. The whole crowd is mindlessly and manically cheering for a family, INCLUDING A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD BOY, to be hanged. Thirteen. Giovanni is the conspirator, who was well liked within the community just a day prior, and everyone is cheering for his 13 year old son to die. I know we like to think our ancestors were pretty ignorant back in the day, but this is just way too contrived. It's a very clear and annoying manipulation of the audience.

7. The Brothel
Ezio is taking care of his family, and already finds it in him to flirt with Paola. Aside from that, this is another good tutorial that explains things in a creative context.

8. Killing Uberto Alberti
A good intro assassination. RCS delivers a nice speech afterwards. This is where my friend decided to quit.

Overall Impressions

Good:
Overall, I thought the game did a great job of introducing concepts and mechanics to new players in a creative way. The city looked beautiful as ever and the music is fantastic. Free-running is fluid and fun, just as it was in AC1 (albeit with less fluid animations on the robes).

Bad:
The writing is pretty sloppy. Characters are extremely one dimensional and hard to get attached to or feel anything for. Plot points are very obvious and cliche, and there is cheap manipulation of the audience. Characters in this world seem very detached from reality (in a poor-writing sort of way, not in a Django Unchained sort of way).

Megas_Doux
11-12-2013, 04:24 AM
Amen. Brotherhood was garbage.

I feel the same!

And I did not even mention the "combat", it is easy to the point in which I have, LITERALLY, killed guards with my eyes closed.........To me ACB is the AC for kids, everything was watered down, cliche and cartoonish.

AdamPearce
11-12-2013, 04:32 AM
I feel the same!

And I did not even mention the "combat", it is easy to the point in which I have, LITERALLY, killed guards with my eyes closed.........To me ACB is the AC for kids, everything was watered down, cliche and cartoonish.

So was the whole Ezio trilogy...

BASTISTABUS > Well, you're right. ^^ I always saw AC2 like the best gameplay AC since I wasn't old enough to compare it to anything other. But still I love this game, even knowing the story and how poorly written it is, I love it! It's like a really really really good action movie! But on the other hand, I don't really like ACB and I hate ACR so, don't know.

ace3001
11-12-2013, 04:56 AM
http://i.imgur.com/OrvSva0.jpg

So, what happened to all the men that Ezio came to the fight with? They all ran away with Vierri?

ace3001
11-12-2013, 05:03 AM
EDIT: Double post. Thought it didn't post properly the first time, but apparently it did.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
11-12-2013, 05:20 AM
Quite wrong.

I've gone back to replay the games. ACI is still meh. Setting up assassinations are long, tedious, and repetitive and Altair's voice is just too monotone for me to really care. (he's much better in ACR)

ACII is still by far the best. Better combat (not as good as ACB but still pretty good); numerous cities just like the first one, only larger, denser, and more vibrant; each city has it's own atmosphere similar to the first game; great characters (Da Vinci!); etc.

The only thing that hasn't quite held up are the graphics (faces are pretty odd looking) and even that isn't too much of an issue.

In order of best to worst...
1. ACII: Best cities to explore, most fun characters, beautiful setting, great story that felt long, gave the series the formula that every next game would follow, etc.
2. ACB: I consider Brotherhood to be a part of ACII as it's simply the continuation of Ezio's story and seems like it was originally SUPPOSED to be in ACII but it's lower than ACII because it's just one city which isn't as interesting as travelling to multiple cities but it was fun to explore!
3. ACR: This one felt a bit more "tacked on" compared to ACB as it felt like Ezio's story could have ended in Brotherhood but it's a nice continuation/epilogue and tied up some loose ends concerning Ezio and Altair and even Desmond. Again, it's just one city like ACB but it was fun to explore!
4. AC: The first AC comes next because the cities were fun to explore but there wasn't much to do -- no stores, no factions (aside from the monks), repetitive set-ups (eaves drop/pickpocket/beat up guy/etc.), and you couldn't swim which is just...ridiculous. Characters were okay but the setting was really cool and the story was intriguing. It started everything I love about the series.
5. ACIII: This one is at the bottom for numerous reasons. The setting is bland -- the story was interesting but it would have been better served as a comic or novel...it was simply not fun to explore the frontier after the first few times of going there and the cities in the game looked more or less identical to one another (something AC1 and 2 avoided by having different feeling cities), characters weren't as great as before but were decent, the naval aspect felt completely tacked on, and more. Even minor things made the game worse such as the shoddy and quickly made Altair outfit which has the robes pinned to his legs even though every preceding game that featured Altair's robes had them flowing like they should, etc. The modern story also got completely screwed up.

I can't say where ACIV will fall. I'm doubtful of the modern storyline after the debacle in ACIII and the fact that it seems unrelated for the most part, they didn't fix Altair or Ezio's robes from ACIII, pirates don't interest me as much as other time periods and factions, etc. However... Havana, from what I've seen of it, looks like it might actually be fun to freerun around as it looks somewhat like ACII-type cities -- vibrant, dense, etc. but there are multiple cities and that might be the only good one and I don't even know how good it is or how large it is. No idea what the other cities are even like. Naval stuff looks a lot better since it's freeroam rather than "go to boat, loading screen, magically on water, take out ships, loading screen, back at the port" and just seems more like an actual aspect of gameplay thanks to the seamless travel between land and sea and being able to go where you want in the boat, can board other vessels, etc. Again though... even though it seems more integrated and better than before... it just isn't what I play AC for. AC had my favorite movement in almost any game... so much more fun to use parkour to bound over rooftops than whatever other freeroam games do. Even Infamous which uses similar parkour exploration just doesn't do it as well.

BATISTABUS
11-12-2013, 05:33 AM
Quite wrong.

Altair's voice is just too monotone for me to really care. (he's much better in ACR)

and you couldn't swim which is just...ridiculous.

I can't say where ACIV will fall.

I'm doubtful of the modern storyline after the debacle in ACIII

they didn't fix Altair or Ezio's robes from ACIII,

Havana, from what I've seen of it, looks like it might actually be fun to freerun around as it looks somewhat like ACII-type cities

it just isn't what I play AC for. AC had my favorite movement in almost any game... so much more fun to use parkour to bound over rooftops than whatever other freeroam games do. Even Infamous which uses similar parkour exploration just doesn't do it as well.
Quite wrong about what? I wasn't saying that was objectively the case, I was just saying that's how I felt about it after a recent playthrough.

Agreed.

Does that really make that much of a difference? Does the introduction of swimming in AC2 introduce a plethora of new fun gameplay opportunities?

That's not a good attitude to have if you haven't even played it.

Why was AC3's modern portion a debacle?

This is possibly the most minor thing to dislike a game for.

Havana is beautiful and certainly stands among the cities of AC2.

Give it a chance. I'd say this game had the best mission design with MUCH more stealth than ever. The free-running is just as awesome as it's always been.

UKassassinsfan
11-12-2013, 06:42 AM
Literally just finished playing assassins creed 2 and IMO it still stands as the best in the series! Everything in the game seems so captivating. There is a truly great atmosphere in 2 and I love the story. Everything from glyphs to tombs. I love how the assassins Templar conflict and TWCB stuff seems so deep rooted and part of everything you're doing! Black flag is really good though, there are obvious graphical leaps and bounds and stealth has never been more fun. I don't think that because a game is old it becomes redundant.
My favourites from best to worst:
1:AC2
2:1
3:4
4:3
5:R
6:B

roostersrule2
11-12-2013, 06:47 AM
AC1 is easily the worst to replay.

SixKeys
11-12-2013, 09:55 AM
2. The Hideout
Once they get to the hideout, you meet the quick-tongued Brit and the sporty- girl. Sean is played well and rightfully annoyed, but I've always had a problem with Rebecca. Her voice/mannerisms/outfit just scream 1-dimensional "totally radical" character (which I'm pretty annoyed by), and it's not until emails/ACR that she starts becoming more vulnerable.

I feel the exact opposite about Shaun and Rebecca. Oh look, a sarcastic, d0uchey Brit. How original. :rolleyes: Hey, a girl who's not just there to show cleavage and flirt with Desmond? I'm impressed. :cool:



4. Boys Will Be Boys
A decent way of introducing how rowdy and charismatic Ezio is. The sexual jokes in the early part of the game were always cringe-worthy for me ("handling" and "outlets"), and they were especially so this time. The race to the top of the tower and the AC2 logo bits I still really enjoyed. Cristina's visit serves as another point as to how carefree Ezio's life is, which could just as easily have been left out. Because of how this was handled in Brotherhood/Revelations, I'm glad it was included.

The sexual lines are supposed to be cringeworthy. Ezio is being presented to us as an immature, spoiled teenager, remember? He actually starts out very similar to Vieri de Pazzi. It's Uncle Mario who teaches Ezio to rise above and act more mature than his enemies.

I liked Cristina's inclusion in AC2. She was a throaway character whose only function was to show us how carefree Ezio was. And it worked. In ACB they tried to turn them into some kind of love story of the century and it only ended up making Ezio into a creepy stalker who sexually assaults his ex-girlfriend because he feels entitled to her. I wish they had never brought Cristina back the way they did in ACB.

I actually always thought the tower scene with Federico was one of the most cringeworthy moments in the whole game. "It's a great life we lead, brother. May it never change." WOW, I SURE HOPE NOTHING LIFECHANGING IS GOING TO HAPPEN AFTER A LINE LIKE THAT. :rolleyes: It's the equivalent of a soldier in a war movie pulling out a photo of his sweetheart, or a cop in an action flick mentioning it's his last week on active duty. You know they've just sealed their fate by uttering those words and it almost renders the whole thing comical. "Well, you probably would have made it to the end of the game if you had just kept your mouth shut, but now I know I can kiss your *** goodbye in an hour or two. Buh-bye."



5. Chores for the Fam
These chores give you a sense of Ezio's family life, a view of the beautiful city, and a sneak peak into events about to unfold. It's fun to beat on Duccio and I like that Ezio stands up for his little sister, but how Claudia reacts to the whole situation is a little too simple and caricature-like (huh huh young idiot girl love). I'm not sure why the feather mission was timed, so that was kind of weird. Petruccio's eyes look creepy as ****. Maria comes off as a strong woman, but her role was never meant to be of that much importance, so it's okay that they skimped on her. I like that he is aloof, but Leonardo just comes off as a bit more boring than I remember (although I still laughed at the finger joke). Maybe it's the performance. Uberto Alberti's face seems to be animated more realistically than anyone elses. Having Rodrigo mysteriously looming in the background of that scene made it SO obvious that Ezio was about to be betrayed.

Agreed on pretty much everything, although I love the scene at Uberto's house with Rodrigo in the background. The big question is never IS Ezio going to be betrayed but WHEN, and I love that mysterious glimpse of our main villain-to-be. Ezio's pain and confusion is well-acted, Uberto's deceptive generosity is chilling ("Would you like to come inside?" "Nononono, do NOT go inside!") and the lighting/shadows on Rodrigo helps the foreboding sense of mystery and danger.

Claudia is much more childish and superficial in AC2 than in ACB. I think Leonardo could have maybe been introduced in a more interesting way, especially since carrying boxes is not a feature that you ever really use later in the game, so it could easily have been skipped. The fact that we never find out what Petruccio wanted those feathers for is still one of the more poignant scenes in the series for me. That's how death is. You're left with questions that you wish you could ask your loved ones, but there's no way for you to ever find out the answers once they're gone. I'm glad the sequels never tried to answer this, I was afraid they'd give Maria a throaway line in ACB like "Petruccio wanted to surprise you with a gift, you should build it yourself to honor his memory" or something lame like that.



6. The Hanging
Surprise, Ezio is betrayed. The whole crowd is mindlessly and manically cheering for a family, INCLUDING A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD BOY, to be hanged. Thirteen. Giovanni is the conspirator, who was well liked within the community just a day prior, and everyone is cheering for his 13 year old son to die. I know we like to think our ancestors were pretty ignorant back in the day, but this is just way too contrived. It's a very clear and annoying manipulation of the audience.

You underestimate how thirsty for any kind of entertainment people were back in those days. A hanging was basically like an exciting episode of a TV show, fun for the whole family. If a respected politician told you these people were traitors to your country, you believed them and were glad to see them dead. Children were considered property of their parents, so basically you were just watching a traitor and his property being destroyed. Our view of being humane is radically different from those days. There are many elements of AC that have actually been "sanitized" for modern consumption, like women being included in men's affairs.



7. The Brothel
Ezio is taking care of his family, and already finds it in him to flirt with Paola. Aside from that, this is another good tutorial that explains things in a creative context.

A lot of people seem to have a problem with this and I guess I can understand why, though it personally never bothered me. I always assumed some time had passed between the events of the hanging and Ezio showing up at Paola's and making jokes was his attempt at trying to deal with it all. From a storytelling perspective it also allows the audience something of a breather after the heavy events of witnessing the deaths of Ezio's family members whom we had already grown somewhat attached to and the escape from a crowd that's suddenly turned hostile. Having Ezio throw in a bit of flirting is a way to make the audience feel like we're among friends now, the atmosphere is a bit more relaxed and we can start rebuilding. I think the structure of events was written this way more with the player in mind than Ezio's character. It's up to personal preference which approach you prefer, I guess.

pacmanate
11-12-2013, 10:01 AM
AC1 - Better on replay
AC2 - Same on replay which was good
AC:B - Better on replay
AC:R - Worse on replay
AC3 - Better on the 1st replay, worse on the 2nd, worse on the 3rd, worse on 4th 5th and 6th, better on 7th due to reading Forsaken but then got bored when I got to young Connor.

BATISTABUS
11-12-2013, 10:10 AM
I feel the exact opposite about Shaun and Rebecca. Oh look, a sarcastic, d0uchey Brit. How original. :rolleyes: Hey, a girl who's not just there to show cleavage and flirt with Desmond? I'm impressed. :cool:

The sexual lines are supposed to be cringeworthy.

I wish they had never brought Cristina back the way they did in ACB.

I actually always thought the tower scene with Federico was one of the most cringeworthy moments in the whole game.

Agreed on pretty much everything, although I love the scene at Uberto's house with Rodrigo in the background. The big question is never IS Ezio going to be betrayed but WHEN, and I love that mysterious glimpse of our main villain-to-be. Ezio's pain and confusion is well-acted, Uberto's deceptive generosity is chilling ("Would you like to come inside?" "Nononono, do NOT go inside!") and the lighting/shadows on Rodrigo helps the foreboding sense of mystery and danger.

I'm glad the sequels never tried to answer this, I was afraid they'd give Maria a throaway line in ACB like "Petruccio wanted to surprise you with a gift, you should build it yourself to honor his memory" or something lame like that.

You underestimate how thirsty for any kind of entertainment people were back in those days.

I always assumed some time had passed between the events of the hanging and Ezio showing up at Paola's and making jokes was his attempt at trying to deal with it all. From a storytelling perspective it also allows the audience something of a breather after the heavy events of witnessing the deaths of Ezio's family members whom we had already grown somewhat attached to and the escape from a crowd that's suddenly turned hostile. Having Ezio throw in a bit of flirting is a way to make the audience feel like we're among friends now, the atmosphere is a bit more relaxed and we can start rebuilding. I think the structure of events was written this way more with the player in mind than Ezio's character. It's up to personal preference which approach you prefer, I guess.
If it helps, I think they're both annoying. I just think Shaun has a better actor.

Ezio's is supposed to be a sign of his playfulness and immaturity, but Maria's is supposed to be funny.

The struggle with Cristina in ACB is what made the payoff of Sofia & Ezio's relationship for me. He was desperate and he was fighting a losing battle, and it's one of the few times where Ezio actually makes mistakes and shows vulnerability.

I just liked the music, the view, and brotherly bonding. It's one of those moments where you just let the romanticism take over. The fact that things are going to change is obvious anyway...it's not like we expect Ezio to be screwing around Firenze for the entire game.

I think you're giving that scene more credit than it deserves. If you want to talk tense, let's talk about Edward disguised as Duncan Walpole at the beginning of AC4. As for Ezio's pain, I'm always a fan of RCS' acting.

Yeah, I like that too.

Sorry, I think you're overestimating it. There are time periods and social situations where I could see a child being publicly murdered while the crowd idly stands by (American slavery), but this is not one of them. Either way, it just comes off as "Look at these bastards! They killed a child! Feel emotions please!" We get it.

Time may have passed, but if so, it was only a matter of days. If it was a coping mechanism, then fine, but at least give us some facial expression that would indicate that. I don't mind this as much as some other people.

SixKeys
11-12-2013, 10:15 AM
Sorry, I think you're overestimating it. Either way, it just comes off as "Look at these bastards! They killed a child! Feel emotions please!" We get it.

Time may have passed, but if so, it was only a matter of days. If it was a coping mechanism, then fine, but at least give us some facial expression that would indicate that. I don't mind this as much as some other people.

I actually kind of keep forgetting Petruccio is even there (I care more about Giovanni and Federico), so if the intention was to make me feel emotions for killing a child, I guess they failed. :p It's much more emotional in ACB when you actually have to carry your dead family members one by one into the boat. That really forces you to confront each of their deaths.

AC2's facial animations were pretty limited, I wouldn't have expected that kind of subtlety.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
11-12-2013, 10:18 AM
Quite wrong about what? I wasn't saying that was objectively the case, I was just saying that's how I felt about it after a recent playthrough.

Agreed.

Does that really make that much of a difference? Does the introduction of swimming in AC2 introduce a plethora of new fun gameplay opportunities?

That's not a good attitude to have if you haven't even played it.

Why was AC3's modern portion a debacle?

This is possibly the most minor thing to dislike a game for.

Havana is beautiful and certainly stands among the cities of AC2.

Give it a chance. I'd say this game had the best mission design with MUCH more stealth than ever. The free-running is just as awesome as it's always been.

I just feel that, even with said criticisms, AC2 remains the best one and this is coming from someone who's replayed it recently.

No, swimming didn't add many new gameplay opportunities, it was simply a minor addition that helped make the whole better than the previous entry.

I meant to say "I'm not sure where AC4 will fall, if it does." I'm not saying it doesn't capture the vibe of AC that I'm after but I AM skeptical because of the setting being relatively similar to AC3.

The modern story in AC3 just felt rushed, I never felt Desmond reached his potential as an Assassin, a thing we had been gearing up to for a long time, and now...he never will. Plus it was just anticlimactic and well, he didn't really do much considering Juno is now free. I was hoping they'd find a way to beat her but now that she's free, it'll seem weird to resolve that issue without Desmond. There was just a plethora of ways to have made the sacrifice cooler and more impactful/meaningful and plenty of different things they could have done. I just felt it didn't really do anything interesting.

I don't dislike AC3 just because of that. But it just adds to the already numerous issues. It's basically like "you did this, this and this wrong... and you couldn't even take the time to make Altair's robes work the way they've ALWAYS worked?" It just smacks of laziness to me. Especially considering the fact that even after all the feedback concerning Altair's AND Ezio's robes being kind of...crap in AC3, the devs STILL did nothing about them. Though if the rest of the game felt like AC2, I wouldn't give a foop. AC3 had numerous issues: setting was bland (I mean the storyline and setting was good if it had been used in a novel or comic but the setting leads to poorer gameplay because America didn't have interesting cities to freerun around back then), gameplay suffered, the two cities looked virtually identical, frontier got old after a few trips to it, etc. etc. It didn't do everything wrong though. By no means do I *hate* the game. Aside from the ending, I enjoyed the story and I enjoyed playing it. Plus I loved the free running animations though I wish we had cooler places to use it. I LOVELOVELOVE that they moved the camera closer to Connor than it had been for Altair and Ezio.... I feel more connected and more involved when the camera is closer to the player character so I loved that!

Yeah, I'm watching a video of Havana but I'm hoping the other cities are unique and similar or that Havana being like AC2's cities is enough. Compared to Constantinople and Rome...how large is Havana? I ask because, if worst comes to worst and Havana is the only city I like...I'd like it to be fairly large but considering the world map is HUGE and there are 2 other cities, I very much doubt it's anywhere close to the size of Rome or Istanbul.

One of the biggest reasons I'm waiting is simply because I'm waiting til next gen...which might be quite awhile but I'd rather save up money for a next gen system instead of shelling out 60 for a game that I want the best version of anyway. If you don't mind, could you describe the different cities? Like...atmosphere, size, what types of cities are they most like? For instance...Havana looks like it's most like Venice from pure aesthetics... is another city more like Bostom or New York? More like Constantinople? Jerusalem? I'll continue to look up videos as well. It's not that I've ruled AC4 out just yet. I'm hesitant and skeptical at how good it'll be but I acknowledge that it'll at least be better than AC3 at least in terms of gameplay. For one, naval stuff is integrated into normal gameplay (going from land to sea is seamless and you can freeroam the oceans in the ship and can battle boats if you see them and can board enemy boats when they're damaged...all of that is leaps and bounds better than the tacked on boat stuff from AC3... in AC3, it felt disconnected and disjointed from the rest of the game, you couldn't board enemy boats except during specific, scripted scenes, and because it was a side thing... it just grew old. Now it looks like a full fledged thing so that's cool. Havana already looks better than New York and Boston just in terms of aesthetics (it's prettier and thus more like Italy), and yeah. No idea what to think of the story, I have neither hopes nor fears about that as I liked Connor's story and Edward's is a complete mystery to me.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
11-12-2013, 10:25 AM
In regards to Shaun and Rebecca -- meh, I like them. Cliche or not.

In regards to Christina. I think it's a good ...counter to Sophia. It was the only other girl that Ezio ever truly loved, that love faded but never disappeared, and it ended in sadness. On the other hand... Sophia and Ezio live happily ever after. which I'm happy for. I like that Ezio lives a ahppy life after all the death. It seems more and more rare to see happy endings for characters nowadays. Everything always seems so dark so it was nice to see that, despite a horrible few years... he's able to come back from it.

In regards to him joking... I always felt that it was him playing it up and it wasn't as sincere as he might've been before everything went wrong. That's who he is, better to joke than cry... at least that's what I felt he told himself at the time.

BATISTABUS
11-12-2013, 10:35 AM
I actually kind of keep forgetting Petruccio is even there (I care more about Giovanni and Federico), so if the intention was to make me feel emotions for killing a child, I guess they failed. :p It's much more emotional in ACB when you actually have to carry your dead family members one by one into the boat. That really forces you to confront each of their deaths.

AC2's facial animations were pretty limited, I wouldn't have expected that kind of subtlety.
Oh, yeah. They can kill Giovanni and Frederico as much as they want and I'd buy that any day of the week. :p

I'll give them that, but I'm not sure how else that could be better communicated without someone blatantly pointing it out. Even though the facial expressions are pretty god-awful, they still try with them. And yes, Brotherhood did a great job with filling in those memories.


The modern story in AC3 just felt rushed, I never felt Desmond reached his potential as an Assassin, a thing we had been gearing up to for a long time, and now...he never will.

I LOVELOVELOVE that they moved the camera closer to Connor than it had been for Altair and Ezio.... I feel more connected and more involved when the camera is closer to the player character so I loved that!

Yeah, I'm watching a video of Havana but I'm hoping the other cities are unique and similar or that Havana being like AC2's cities is enough. Compared to Constantinople and Rome...how large is Havana? I ask because, if worst comes to worst and Havana is the only city I like...I'd like it to be fairly large but considering the world map is HUGE and there are 2 other cities, I very much doubt it's anywhere close to the size of Rome or Istanbul.

One of the biggest reasons I'm waiting is simply because I'm waiting til next gen...which might be quite awhile but I'd rather save up money for a next gen system instead of shelling out 60 for a game that I want the best version of anyway. If you don't mind, could you describe the different cities? Like...atmosphere, size, what types of cities are they most like? For instance...Havana looks like it's most like Venice from pure aesthetics... is another city more like Bostom or New York?
I suppose, and I understand this frustration, but I was pretty happy with it overall, especially when compared to the previous 3 games' modern sections. Even though missions were pretty linear and simple, even if only for a moment, I liked taking Desmond on modern excursions. Aside from that, I really liked seeing the father-son parallel of Desmond/William and Connor/Haytham. Finally seeing Shaun and Rebecca open up (emotionally) and shut up (verbally) was a really nice change of pace.

Me too! This was something I was really hoping for before the game came out, and I'm really happy with the result.

It's nowhere near the size of Rome/Constantinople, but those games were the entire exploreable map of their respective games. It feels about the size of Florence or Venice.

It might be a good idea to wait until next gen if you're not dying to play it. Kingston is somewhat similar to Boston, but more mixed in with nature (trees and beach). Nassau has a completely different feel from any previous city; it's a dump like Forli, but not nearly as dark and dull. It's a true shanty town with buildings seemingly stitched together with twigs. In all of these cities, free-running on buildings is MUCH more accessible than it was in AC3. Havana really is amazing. It has plenty of architecturally attractive and tall buildings, and the music there is nostalgically Spanish. As for the ship mechanic, it is completely fluid...I'm really impressed with how well they got all of the systems to work so seamlessly. I'm not sure if any patches for the game have been released yet, but I haven't downloaded any, and I haven't noticed a single annoying glitch.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
11-12-2013, 11:26 AM
I suppose, and I understand this frustration, but I was pretty happy with it overall, especially when compared to the previous 3 games' modern sections. Even though missions were pretty linear and simple, even if only for a moment, I liked taking Desmond on modern excursions. Aside from that, I really liked seeing the father-son parallel of Desmond/William and Connor/Haytham. Finally seeing Shaun and Rebecca open up (emotionally) and shut up (verbally) was a really nice change of pace.

Me too! This was something I was really hoping for before the game came out, and I'm really happy with the result.

It's nowhere near the size of Rome/Constantinople, but those games were the entire exploreable map of their respective games. It feels about the size of Florence or Venice.

It might be a good idea to wait until next gen if you're not dying to play it. Kingston is somewhat similar to Boston, but more mixed in with nature (trees and beach). Nassau has a completely different feel from any previous city; it's a dump like Forli, but not nearly as dark and dull. It's a true shanty town with buildings seemingly stitched together with twigs. In all of these cities, free-running on buildings is MUCH more accessible than it was in AC3. Havana really is amazing. It has plenty of architecturally attractive and tall buildings, and the music there is nostalgically Spanish. As for the ship mechanic, it is completely fluid...I'm really impressed with how well they got all of the systems to work so seamlessly. I'm not sure if any patches for the game have been released yet, but I haven't downloaded any, and I haven't noticed a single annoying glitch.

True... actually. Let me go back on what I said about the modern stuff in AC3. One of my favorite moments was the MMA fight that Desmond goes to. It felt like playing as a modern Assassin. Linear yes but obviously because a modern AC just...wouldn't work without simply becoming a GTA clone. I just wish there had been MORE of those missions. Again...wasted opportunities. The first Desmond "mission" is literally climbing up a modern skyscraper under construction. YAWN. I've had enough of mindless climbing with Desmond...I've already seen him learn to freerun in 2 and Brotherhood whether it was getting into the villa or in the coliseum or the church... I've climbed with Desmond before. Know what I haven't done? Actually acted as an Assassin!!! So, MMA fight was fun. The return to Abstergo was...okay. I would have LOVED about...5-10 missions as Desmond as he goes to various locations all over the world: America, Italy, Brazil, China, Japan, wherever,,,as he hunts down various Templar leaders for _____ reasons. It would end with returning to Abstergo, choosing to either climb the side of the building or blending in with a crowd of officer employees entering the building... I just wish it felt more like I ever actually used what I had learned from Altair, Ezio, and Connor and gotten to use it as Desmond. Assassinating the modern leaders, hearing them talk to Desmond in a similar manner, Desmond saying "Requiescat in Pace" out of habit, etc. The modern missions had so much potential...especially after the pretty fun MMA mission... and then it just kind of fizzled out into nothing.

Yeah, it looked to be about the size of Florence or Venice which is good and the most I could reasonably hope for considering the other cities and sheer size of the game.

The game looks fun, I'm a little skeptical after AC3 and because it's been about 4 years since an AC game has had a bunch of cities that I flat out LOVE. ACB had the one, ACR had the one, AC3 had the None, and so...another game with one "traditional AC" city is disappointing but oh well. I hope the rest of it comes together nicely.

roostersrule2
11-12-2013, 11:52 AM
AC1: Worse
AC2: Same
ACB: Same
ACR: Same
AC3: Better

Sushiglutton
11-12-2013, 02:40 PM
Since I spoke about my friend quitting after the first couple of sequences, here were my detailed impressions on the re-play.

1. The Escape from Abstergo
Right off the bat, the game starts with some sloppy writing. These characters have their lives (and the lives of others) on the line, and Desmond's already going off with the "DO YOU THINK THEY'RE CALLED ANIMI???" Stupid. Guards don't have guns...whatever, it's the first level and you don't want to screw newcomers already. Lucy's well written/acted for the most part, with some cliche lines thrown in (not going to be too picky about that).

2. The Hideout
Once they get to the hideout, you meet the quick-tongued Brit and the sporty- girl. Sean is played well and rightfully annoyed, but I've always had a problem with Rebecca. Her voice/mannerisms/outfit just scream 1-dimensional "totally radical" character (which I'm pretty annoyed by), and it's not until emails/ACR that she starts becoming more vulnerable.

3. The Birth Scene
Awkward with HORRIBLY rendered characters and animations, but a creative way of introducing the puppeteering system.

4. Boys Will Be Boys
A decent way of introducing how rowdy and charismatic Ezio is. The sexual jokes in the early part of the game were always cringe-worthy for me ("handling" and "outlets"), and they were especially so this time. The race to the top of the tower and the AC2 logo bits I still really enjoyed. Cristina's visit serves as another point as to how carefree Ezio's life is, which could just as easily have been left out. Because of how this was handled in Brotherhood/Revelations, I'm glad it was included.

5. Chores for the Fam
These chores give you a sense of Ezio's family life, a view of the beautiful city, and a sneak peak into events about to unfold. It's fun to beat on Duccio and I like that Ezio stands up for his little sister, but how Claudia reacts to the whole situation is a little too simple and caricature-like (huh huh young idiot girl love). I'm not sure why the feather mission was timed, so that was kind of weird. Petruccio's eyes look creepy as ****. Maria comes off as a strong woman, but her role was never meant to be of that much importance, so it's okay that they skimped on her. I like that he is aloof, but Leonardo just comes off as a bit more boring than I remember (although I still laughed at the finger joke). Maybe it's the performance. Uberto Alberti's face seems to be animated more realistically than anyone elses. Having Rodrigo mysteriously looming in the background of that scene made it SO obvious that Ezio was about to be betrayed.

6. The Hanging
Surprise, Ezio is betrayed. The whole crowd is mindlessly and manically cheering for a family, INCLUDING A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD BOY, to be hanged. Thirteen. Giovanni is the conspirator, who was well liked within the community just a day prior, and everyone is cheering for his 13 year old son to die. I know we like to think our ancestors were pretty ignorant back in the day, but this is just way too contrived. It's a very clear and annoying manipulation of the audience.

7. The Brothel
Ezio is taking care of his family, and already finds it in him to flirt with Paola. Aside from that, this is another good tutorial that explains things in a creative context.

8. Killing Uberto Alberti
A good intro assassination. RCS delivers a nice speech afterwards. This is where my friend decided to quit.

Overall Impressions

Good:
Overall, I thought the game did a great job of introducing concepts and mechanics to new players in a creative way. The city looked beautiful as ever and the music is fantastic. Free-running is fluid and fun, just as it was in AC1 (albeit with less fluid animations on the robes).

Bad:
The writing is pretty sloppy. Characters are extremely one dimensional and hard to get attached to or feel anything for. Plot points are very obvious and cliche, and there is cheap manipulation of the audience. Characters in this world seem very detached from reality (in a poor-writing sort of way, not in a Django Unchained sort of way).


I feel like you are being overly critical. I don't think there is any game out there that holds up to your level of analysis. In the first part of AC2 they need to introduce the modern plot/characters, renaissance plot/characters AND the various gameplay mechanics. This needs to be done at a fairly brisk pace otherwise the player will lose interest (see AC3). I think the way they have done it is still overall amazing.

Some of the tutorials are highly imaginative and serves both to build characters and introduce mechanics. The baby one still puts a smile on my face, it's genius. Also introducing the escape/hide mechanic by letting Ezio escape an angry father to a daughter he just, hrrm, visited is clever as hell. I have no idea why you think this scene could easily have been left out. It introduces the womanizing side of Ezio, which I think is important.

You seem to really dislike clichés. To me it can be an effective storytelling technique in videogames. The developers have like a few second to introduce many of the characters. Any longer would be bad for the pacing. By leaning on a certain cliché a couple of seconds is all they need as the player will fill in the rest based on previous encounters with the archetype. R* uses this technique all the time in their games to great effect.

Your criticism of Rodrigo appearing at Uberto's is again something I feel different about. There is nothing wrong with alerting the player of Uberto being a traitor imo. This will be revealed real soon anyway. It's also obvious that something real bad will happen that will break up Ezio's comfortable life. I like the idea of having a mysterious black hooded man that appears throughout the game like a bad omen.

Farlander1991
11-12-2013, 02:50 PM
Speaking of escape from Abstergo, the devs say that the idea to make Lucy a Templar originated during AC2 development, so the reason why they don't use guns (apart from the technical reasons that guns simply were not implemented in the game for NPCs, only bows/arrows) seems perfectly viable taking that in the consideration. It's a 'why the **** they don't have guns?!?! ... oooooooh' moment, so to speak. In my opinion that's actually a clever way of integrating engine limitations with the plot, as well as setting up a clever twist (the way the twist was resolved in the later game though, doesn't have anything to do with this)

Also, there's a difference between cliches, and tropes and archetypes. Tropes and archetypes aren't inherently bad. In fact, when you need to introduce a cast of characters, you want to use tropes and archetypes to quickly give a feel of the characters. It's what you do with those tropes and archetypes AFTER said introduction that makes them cliche or not.

Sushiglutton
11-12-2013, 02:56 PM
Speaking of escape from Abstergo, the devs say that the idea to make Lucy a Templar originated during AC2 development, so the reason why they don't use guns (apart from the technical reasons that guns simply were not implemented in the game) seems perfectly viable taking that in the consideration. It's a 'why the **** they don't have guns?!?! ... oooooooh' moment, so to speak. In my opinion that's actually a clever way of integrating engine limitations with the plot, as well as setting up a clever twist (the way the twist was resolved in the later game though, doesn't have anything to do with this)

It's also standard to not have guns in a prison. No matter what if you are gonna criticize that kind of thing, enjoying a game will be tough as hell.



Also, there's a difference between cliches, and tropes and archetypes. Tropes and archetypes aren't inherently bad. In fact, when you need to introduce a cast of characters, you want to use tropes and archetypes to quickly give a feel of the characters. It's what you do with those tropes and archetypes AFTER said introduction that makes them cliche or not.

Thanks for clarifying that. I had the similar idea, just didn't know the terminology :).

Farlander1991
11-12-2013, 03:08 PM
It's also standard to not have guns in a prison. No matter what if you are gonna criticize that kind of thing, enjoying a game will be tough as hell.

Well, there was also a frequent question of why do Abstergo guards don't have guns at the end, but that's pretty much for the same reason as before :)

BATISTABUS
11-12-2013, 05:40 PM
I feel like you are being overly critical. I don't think there is any game out there that holds up to your level of analysis. In the first part of AC2 they need to introduce the modern plot/characters, renaissance plot/characters AND the various gameplay mechanics. This needs to be done at a fairly brisk pace otherwise the player will lose interest (see AC3). I think the way they have done it is still overall amazing.

You seem to really dislike cliches.
I wrote a detailed analysis of around 3 hours of gameplay. Nobody would review a game like this, and it wouldn't be fair to review an entire game with this level of scrutiny. However, these are trends that continue throughout the game for me; great gameplay, intelligent systems, a beautiful world, sloppy writing, and poor characters. I was citing specific examples that all add up by the end of the game.

A large part of the reason I am so unimpressed by AC2's story is because of how shallow it was compared to AC1's. It took a few risks (the main villain is the POPE), but overall was very "safe" in comparison.

ace3001
11-12-2013, 05:51 PM
A large part of the reason I am so unimpressed by AC2's story is because of how shallow it was compared to AC1's. It took a few risks (the main villain is the POPE), but overall was very "safe" in comparison.AC2's story felt a lot more personal than AC1's did, at least to me. Not that I've ever had to take revenge on someone who killed my family, but I could understand Ezio's plight. With Altair, it was hard to identify with him. The not-so-good voice acting also played a part here. I didn't like Altair very much until I read The Secret Crusade and played Revelations. Then again, despite that, I liked AC1's story very much as well. If not for the it, I would've dropped it by the time I had gone to do the third or fourth contract and realized that I had to repeat the same boring stuff over and over and over again before each main assassination.

ze_topazio
11-12-2013, 06:00 PM
I replayed AC2 a few months ago and loved it just as much.