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GreatBeyonder
11-11-2013, 03:57 AM
Is it wrong if I think the Templars are far more heroic, sympathetic, and admirable in this game than their Assassin counterparts in practically every way? I feel there should be a Woodes Rogers DLC or something, because everytime he's on screen, I want to hug him and tell him its okay.

xx-pyro
11-11-2013, 03:59 AM
I don't know about heroic and sympathetic, but admirable perhaps. I don't know if I agree in terms of AC4 however. Personally, if I had to choose one of their philosophies I'd probably rather be a Templar than an Assassin, however the only game in which the Templars outshone the Assassin's (in my eyes) was AC3, which had the best Templar cast in the series.

GreatBeyonder
11-11-2013, 04:10 AM
I think AC4 Templars are a tiny bit more sympathetic, if only because they don't have Charles Lee to make a fool of himself. All they want in this game is to stop piracy and insure justice. How are these bad things? They don't harass natives, they don't support slavery, they don't even seem to hold particularly violent grudges against Assassins. In the real world, they'd more likely be praised for their actions, not assassinated, which seems to be the Assassins' response to everything in this game.

Sturnz0r
11-11-2013, 04:22 AM
I agree; the Templars in this struggle were not evil people in the slightest with the outlier being Du Case who is more of a necessary evil than anything

However, the Templars don't really need to resort to inherently bad things like slavery, genocide, injustice, as they have their eyes on the bigger prize; the observatory

And Hornigold didn't betray all of his friend, as he brought his mates cockram and the other bloke

GreatBeyonder
11-11-2013, 04:34 AM
The most wicked thing Julien du Casse does is say mean things to the outlaw who literally broke into his house and murdered him for no real reason. Honestly, who wouldn't flip out in that situation?

Landruner
11-11-2013, 04:36 AM
Is it wrong if I think the Templars are far more heroic, sympathetic, and admirable in this game than their Assassin counterparts in practically every way? I feel there should be a Woodes Rogers DLC or something, because everytime he's on screen, I want to hug him and tell him its okay.

With some dudes parodists we decided to open a petition to the congress for an act of protection for the defense of the Templars that are now, thanks to UBISOFT, included in endangered species list & in way of serious a radical extinction.
That is a shame, for god sake, I do not my children grow in a world without Templar around?
Stop UBISOFT ! please stop that crime, please stop the genocide of the Templars!
Signed Juno!

rprkjj
11-11-2013, 04:36 AM
I think AC4 Templars are a tiny bit more sympathetic, if only because they don't have Charles Lee to make a fool of himself. All they want in this game is to stop piracy and insure justice. How are these bad things? They don't harass natives, they don't support slavery, they don't even seem to hold particularly violent grudges against Assassins. In the real world, they'd more likely be praised for their actions, not assassinated, which seems to be the Assassins' response to everything in this game.

The Assassin's response to everything is to assassinate. Shocker.

Seriously though, I don't think anything will top AC3's Templar cast. The fact that we saw them as Assassin's until the end of Haytham's sequences really opens your eyes to who the Templars are and their cause. Even their dying speechs, akin to AC1, make you feel for them and actually made me /facepalm at Connor.

Hickey was just looking out for his wallet, and Church was despicable, and Lee was a racist pile of scum, but Pitcairn was a honorable military leader looking for peace, and Johnson wished to save the Mohawk from themselves, despite his violent means. Last of all, Haytham, was simply badass. I still think Haytham shouldn't have been playable (maybe 1 sequence), but his death made a real impact.

xx-pyro
11-11-2013, 04:38 AM
The Assassin's response to everything is to assassinate. Shocker.

Seriously though, I don't think anything will top AC3's Templar cast. The fact that we saw them as Assassin's until the end of Haytham's sequences really opens your eyes to who the Templars are and their cause. Even their dying speechs, akin to AC1, make you feel for them and actually made me /facepalm at Connor.

Hickey was just looking out for his wallet, and Church was despicable, and Lee was a racist pile of scum, but Pitcairn was a honorable military leader looking for peace, and Johnson wished to save the Mohawk from themselves, despite his violent means. Last of all, Haytham, was simply badass. I still think Haytham shouldn't have been playable (maybe 1 sequence), but his death made a real impact.

I agree with this mostly but if you couldn't see that "plot twist" of them being Templars from a mile away..

Sturnz0r
11-11-2013, 05:56 AM
The most wicked thing Julien du Casse does is say mean things to the outlaw who literally broke into his house and murdered him for no real reason. Honestly, who wouldn't flip out in that situation?

I meant he was a gun runner. profiteering off war. You're right, though

EaglePrince25
11-11-2013, 06:31 PM
I think AC4 Templars are a tiny bit more sympathetic, if only because they don't have Charles Lee to make a fool of himself. All they want in this game is to stop piracy and insure justice. How are these bad things? They don't harass natives, they don't support slavery, they don't even seem to hold particularly violent grudges against Assassins. In the real world, they'd more likely be praised for their actions, not assassinated, which seems to be the Assassins' response to everything in this game.

Yeah I agree with this, though I still think AC3 had the best developed Templar cast and argument. On the flip side however, I feel that we barely know the AC4 Assassins, which isn't surprising seeing as how the main character barely interacts with them. To sum them up, they want to stop the Templars because they're Templars.

MIA SILENT
11-11-2013, 06:37 PM
There were Templars in AC4? ;)

DinoSteve1
11-11-2013, 06:38 PM
When you read the Templers goals they sound great until you stop to think about them, if they got their way we would all be slaves to the whims of a few people, they want to provide Justice while restricting freedoms, and the Templers always seem to by led by a greedy power hungry person.

TheDanteEX
11-11-2013, 07:08 PM
There's two perspectives. One isn't any more reasonably correct than the other. You're free to decide who you think has the best ideas for the world. Unfortunately, this series is cursed by the Assassin name, so the chances of playing completely on both sides of the conflict historically is slim. Because of that, the Templars will always just be seen as "the bad guys" to people. Not much else can be done because the second they announced a complete game with a Templar protagonist, the complaints would be sent out so fast.

RzaRecta357
11-11-2013, 07:57 PM
Except that like... The Templars want to take freedom and control it through what are practically alien devices. They're hitlers.

GreatBeyonder
11-11-2013, 11:26 PM
Except that like... The Templars want to take freedom and control it through what are practically alien devices. They're hitlers.

...how do you associate Adolph Hitler with hackers and spies? Do you think Wikipedia or the CIA are run by Nazis? :confused:

Most of the Templars in the first game were non-white, as were ALL of them in Revelations. The last thing they're concerned with is racial or cultural superiority.

Landruner
11-11-2013, 11:44 PM
Except that like... The Templars want to take freedom and control it through what are practically alien devices. They're hitlers.

No, no you are wrong, Templars are nice guys, I just joint the order yesterday they give you candies after you sign up! besides the pay is good and they have a good health insurance, you should joint too (If I recruit people I can get my picture next to the one of the grand master)

Dragula
11-11-2013, 11:47 PM
I think AC4 Templars are a tiny bit more sympathetic, if only because they don't have Charles Lee to make a fool of himself. All they want in this game is to stop piracy and insure justice. How are these bad things? They don't harass natives, they don't support slavery, they don't even seem to hold particularly violent grudges against Assassins. In the real world, they'd more likely be praised for their actions, not assassinated, which seems to be the Assassins' response to everything in this game.

as you do templar hunts and assassin contracts if you read them you find out its usually templars behind alot of the slavery and stuff that you are stopping

LoyalACFan
11-12-2013, 01:06 AM
I actually thought AC4's Templars were pretty forgettable aside from Torres and Rogers. There were a couple of guys I was tasked with killing who I just thought were random captains or something, but then it went into a big formal "death corridor" speech and I was like... Who the hell are you again?

Hans684
11-12-2013, 06:08 AM
I hope they make a game where the assassins is portrayed as 'the bad guy', they have made The Dark Age of the Templar Order(the Borgia family that used theire creed to only gett power) but i want to play in The Dark Age of The Assassin Order, even if it means playing 'the bad guy'(the assassin protagonist).

GreatBeyonder
11-12-2013, 08:02 AM
I hope they make a game where the assassins is portrayed as 'the bad guy', they have made The Dark Age of the Templar Order(the Borgia family that used theire creed to only gett power) but i want to play in The Dark Age of The Assassin Order, even if it means playing 'the bad guy'(the assassin protagonist).

I think you're forgetting the Altair years, with Al Mualim and Abbas essentially treating the Assassins as their own personal deathsquads. Al Mualim is STILL the most frighteningly competent baddie to date, with Haytham a close second, in my opinion.

Vzmike
11-12-2013, 08:56 AM
Don't really see a reason why they wouldn't make a game with a separate Templar storyline that goes hand in hand with the Assassin one. Although it would require a bit of work to be worked around.

Landruner
11-12-2013, 09:16 AM
Don't really see a reason why they wouldn't make a game with a separate Templar storyline that goes hand in hand with the Assassin one. Although it would require a bit of work to be worked around.

Ah I do not know why?, but I like you....:rolleyes: More seriously, yes that could be a great idea, however; I am not sure that die hard AC fans will like that?...But it could be seen some day, why not like a two stories game Assassin and Templar (Like twins drama) ... sort of...

Vzmike
11-12-2013, 09:42 AM
Ah I do not know why?, but I like you....:rolleyes: More seriously, yes that could be a great idea, however; I am not sure that die hard AC fans will like that?...But it could be seen some day, why not like a two stories game Assassin and Templar (Like twins drama) ... sort of...
People tend to.

It can be similar to how the game Sonic Adventure 2 Battle's story played out, albeit less cliche and involving a lot less fur...two separate story-lines that have little involvement with each other but still pertain to each other. Upon completion of both a final memory sequence is unlocked in which both parties are involved, again in a much less, happy-ending sort of way that that particular Sonic game ends...but still providing that in your face twist that AC games are notorious for.

It's risky, but so is a game relying hugely on naval combat. As for AC fans possibly not liking playing as a Templar, I'm awfully new here but I haven't seen anyone complain about their time as Haytham in III, despite him having an insanely obvious twist and a pretty slow opening to the game. It's new and fresh, something all fans of the series should welcome.

Hans684
11-12-2013, 04:12 PM
I think you're forgetting the Altair years, with Al Mualim and Abbas essentially treating the Assassins as their own personal deathsquads. Al Mualim is STILL the most frighteningly competent baddie to date, with Haytham a close second, in my opinion.

I know but i want to play the corrupt power hungry assassin that is the reason for the Dark Age of the Assassin Order. Edward defyed the assassin order, i want to play the assassin that breaks the order(and creed). That shows the assassin order in a 'bad guy' view, a lot of fans has been thinking the assassins are 'the good guys' becouse of AC2 & ACB when the templar order was corrupt.

Landruner
11-12-2013, 04:22 PM
People tend to.It can be similar to how the game Sonic Adventure 2 Battle's story played out, albeit less cliche and involving a lot less fur...two separate story-lines that have little involvement with each other but still pertain to each other. Upon completion of both a final memory sequence is unlocked in which both parties are involved, again in a much less, happy-ending sort of way that that particular Sonic game ends...but still providing that in your face twist that AC games are notorious for.It's risky, but so is a game relying hugely on naval combat. As for AC fans possibly not liking playing as a Templar, I'm awfully new here but I haven't seen anyone complain about their time as Haytham in III, despite him having an insanely obvious twist and a pretty slow opening to the game. It's new and fresh, something all fans of the series should welcome.

Yes you are right, that is the rule of progressing in the success - Always thinking to self challenge and bringing something new and risky in what was already working.

I take AC4 for an example, it is a good game with a lot of Pirates stuff on it, regarding the Assassin part, as storywise (Assassin vs. Templar) as the gameplay, well it was the same games that the previous ones. So, for most people I am sure it is a good Pirate game, but it is a good assassin's creed game?.