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View Full Version : Must the dutch be Included??



Ilya-Mourometz
07-19-2004, 11:24 AM

Ilya-Mourometz
07-19-2004, 11:24 AM
Just nice to know,
Must the dutch and The Dutch Eest Indies be Included???

Inadaze
07-19-2004, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ilya-Mourometz:
Just nice to know,
Must the dutch and The Dutch Eest Indies be Included???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they were there, why should they be excluded?

The more the merrier I say. I like to see lots of diverse countries included. It makes the game feel more rounded and "right" for me.

It was a world war after all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

S! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif Inadaze

MetalG.
07-19-2004, 11:32 AM
It already has been confirmed they will be included.

Atomic_Marten
07-19-2004, 11:40 AM
IMO every avio-gang flying in Pacific WW2 should be included if possible. Yes.

Sakai9745
07-19-2004, 11:48 AM
For the historical value and sheer challenge of it, definitely. Let's correct some of history's shortcomings and provide sufficient air cover for ABDA fleet at the Battle of Java Sea.

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

Alexander_Seil
07-19-2004, 12:05 PM
The fact that the Dutch, the British and the Aussies are in makes this much more than your average "Pacific flight sim".

Obi_Kwiet
07-19-2004, 12:10 PM
I heard that the ***-ku-kwam tribe in the southern Philipians took a a make shift plane with a sub machine gun into the air one. Lets modle them too. I know it would be nice to have every one who fought in the Pacific, but after the Americans and the British, don't you think your asking a bit much from the pooor devs?

diabloblanco1
07-19-2004, 12:14 PM
What was the role of their airforce during the war. What planes, how many etc... That might be the reason they are not on the top of the list. Not because what they did was not important.

The Devil made me do it!

Atomic_Marten
07-19-2004, 12:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I heard that the ***-ku-kwam tribe in the southern Philipians took a a make shift plane with a sub machine gun into the air one. Lets modle them too. I know it would be nice to have every one who fought in the Pacific, but after the Americans and the British, don't you think your asking a bit much from the pooor devs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What?!? KKK fought in Pacific?
lol. Bet 5$ they fly only white painted planes. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Sakai9745
07-19-2004, 12:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I know it would be nice to have every one who fought in the Pacific, but after the Americans and the British, don't you think your asking a bit much from the pooor devs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course, there are limits, and we definitely don't want to work the poor devs to death. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif Still, if it is possible to include as many participants as possible, then it certainly couldn't hurt.

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

theRealAntEater
07-19-2004, 01:03 PM
"Ohne Holland fahrn wir in Pazifik! Ohne Holland...."
http://land.heim.at/yellowstone/230923/feind/pics/fun/ohne_holland.jpg

Ok, Germans are not in either http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
07-19-2004, 01:48 PM
they flew brewsters i belive, among other planes

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

Dimensionaut_
07-19-2004, 01:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
they flew brewsters i belive, among other planes

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They flew Brewsters, Hawks, CW-21's, Catalina's, Do-24's (to keep the Germans happy) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, Martin's while defending the NEI.
In Australia they flew P-40N's and B-25's.

Let's hope Java and Australia will be added in a future update...

<A HREF="http://www.1java.org/sh" TARGET=_blank>
http://www.uploadit.org/1javaserval/images.php
</A>

Alexander_Seil
07-19-2004, 02:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sakai9745:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I know it would be nice to have every one who fought in the Pacific, but after the Americans and the British, don't you think your asking a bit much from the pooor devs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course, there are limits, and we definitely don't want to work the poor devs to death. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif Still, if it is possible to include as many participants as possible, then it certainly couldn't hurt.

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Slovaks, Hungarians and Romanians weren't excluded from FB, and that added greatly to the historical immersiveness of the game...a simulation that claims to be historical cannot afford to exclude a major combatant. Besides, they must make a game that will stand out amid all those Americo-centric Pacific sims that ignore the fact that any military activity ever occured west of New Guinea.

Atomic_Marten
07-19-2004, 02:33 PM
Alexander when u mention nations in FB so far some are still missing. Like Italians and Croats. And they will probably never be included, in spite of some attempts.

But I'm over-happy ( http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) with the current situation in IL-2. IL-2 is everything what I hope and a little more.

269GA-Veltro
07-19-2004, 02:37 PM
They were there, they MUST be included; and they will be included.

More forgotten aviations please. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/VELTROVELTROVELTRO.JPG
www.269ga.it (http://www.269ga.it)

Atomic_Marten
07-19-2004, 02:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:
They were there, they MUST be included; and they will be included.

More forgotten aviations please. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the spirit! Mate u can't possibly make me happier!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gifmaybe my girlfriend can, but she's away, so...

Alexander_Seil
07-19-2004, 02:44 PM
Actually, an Italian squadron insignia is included, as are some Italian planes (how many they had in the East, anyway?)...only thing's missing is a voice pack and "authentic" flight/wing designations. As for Croatia...there are no maps that come quite close (except Balaton), and as far as I understand their units on the Eastern Front were essentially integrated into the German forces (not sure about the Slovak situation, though). Still though, if we come to a point where inclusion of Croatia in a flight sim is missed, I think we came very damn far http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I mean, come on. What other game lets you fly for the Royal Hungarian Air Force? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Atomic_Marten
07-19-2004, 03:11 PM
Alexander I did not mean to offend u, u can be sure of that. AFAIK there is no other game that will provide you chance to fly RHungarianAF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. It is the allmigthy greatness of IL-2 on all areas in air-war simulation games.

I don't understand rellevance of maps in this whole situation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. Or other criteria whether some air force should or should not be included in game. For example, there are American voice packs insignia and planes of all kinds included, yet they state is so far from east front. France? Normandie Niemen?

As far as Croatia on is concerned, combined tally of Croatian aces is confirmed 284 kills. Of 21 aces, 15 were credited for 10 or more kills. Mostly on Bf109 while flying vs. Soviet union. Slovakians were designated 13.(Slov.)/JG52, while Croats 15.(Kroat)/JG52.

And ALL air forces of axis were under direct Luftwaffe command on East, with a 'little' exception of Italians, since they were one of three main axis states ('till mid '43).

necrobaron
07-19-2004, 03:38 PM
Yes, I think the Dutch should be included along with any other participants in the Pacific war.

"Not all who wander are lost."

Atomic_Marten
07-19-2004, 03:43 PM
I looked at some of my books and this is what I found about Italian air force on east.

Initially there was 51 C.200's sent on east as part of 22?Gruppo Caccia and 61?Gruppo Osservazione Aerea. These 2 Gruppo's formed CSIR(Corpo di Spedizione in Russia).

C.200's were distributed to 4 squadriglia at first. Later they re-equipped and replaced by fresh pilots from other 3 squadriglias (+1 squadriglia soon after those three), Gruppo 21?.

Later 12 (+2 photo recconaisance versions) C.202's were also sent on eastern font.

Cheers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Alexander_Seil
07-19-2004, 04:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
I don't understand rellevance of maps in this whole situation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. Or other criteria whether some air force should or should not be included in game. For example, there are American voice packs insignia and planes of all kinds included, yet they state is so far from east front. France? Normandie Niemen?

As far as Croatia on is concerned, combined tally of Croatian _aces_ is confirmed 284 kills. Of 21 aces, 15 were credited for 10 or more kills. Mostly on Bf109 while flying vs. Soviet union. Slovakians were designated 13.(Slov.)/JG52, while Croats 15.(Kroat)/JG52.

And ALL air forces of axis were under direct Luftwaffe command on East, with a 'little' exception of Italians, since they were one of three main axis states ('till mid '43).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've got a point there, but it's still only one squadron, integrated one at that. As you say, though, all the major countries are covered http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif As for Americans/British...well, they help sell the game. I'm afraid most people who buy FB aren't really familiar with the air force of the Nezavisna Drzava Hrvatska http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

xenios
07-19-2004, 04:54 PM
You guys know there's already a flyable CW 21 Demon by Gibbage and Jeronimo, and pretty much only the Dutch flew 'em...so...

I'm pretty sure you'll be able to select orange triangles in the arming screen, I just wouldn't expect a Dutch campaign, or Dutch planes on the box cover. I don't think it's really in question whether they'll be included in PF, so let's hear about what the Dutch did historically. I know they suffered the same fate as all allied forces early on, but what happened to the survivors? Did the Dutch air force later use U.S. or U.K. aircraft (besides Brewsters)?

Atomic_Marten
07-19-2004, 05:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You've got a point there, but it's still only one squadron, integrated one at that. As you say, though, all the major countries are covered http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif As for Americans/British...well, they help sell the game. I'm afraid most people who buy FB aren't really familiar with the air force of the Nezavisna Drzava Hrvatska http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm glad that we have found mutual understanding here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

I agree that by including all those non-eastern A/C's and markings, from which majority are (all?) US/UK/JPN origin in FB, will help selling the game. But I did not want to mention that loud http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif 'cause someone can get upset.

What I'm really surprised that anybody even bother to create that kind of sim. For which I'm almost certain that is unique in PC history by area of combat operations (aero sims).

About that one fighter squadron of Croats (they also have one bomber squadron equipped with Do17's on east), the same stands for Slovaks. Italians have more A/C's for sure, but also their number was not so significant.

What makes IL-2 so great game is variety of options of all sorts (+bunch of other things http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif). Few more would make it even better. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif See how spoiled I am? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

But I agree that some number of ppl aren't familiar with these terms (Croatia, Slovakia). It is their fault for being small dots on map... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BTW great news xenios about that CW21 Demon. I just have to look at my library for some info about it.

Dimensionaut_
07-20-2004, 01:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xenios:
You guys know there's already a flyable CW 21 Demon by Gibbage and Jeronimo, and pretty much only the Dutch flew 'em...so...

I'm pretty sure you'll be able to select orange triangles in the arming screen, I just wouldn't expect a Dutch campaign, or Dutch planes on the box cover. I don't think it's really in question whether they'll be included in PF, so let's hear about what the Dutch did historically. I know they suffered the same fate as all allied forces early on, but what happened to the survivors? Did the Dutch air force later use U.S. or U.K. aircraft (besides Brewsters)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Many people were evacuated to Australia, using the Catalina's and Do-24's.
The Brewsters still on the way as reinforcements were taken over by the US (So, the US had Brewsters flying around with the Dutch camo pattern).
The Dutch were equipped with P-40N's and B-25's and operated from North Australia.

<A HREF="http://www.1java.org/sh" TARGET=_blank>
http://www.uploadit.org/1javaserval/images.php
</A>

Eagle_34
07-20-2004, 03:22 AM
I'm biased but i think for the early Japanese campaign the conquest of Dutch East Indies are a pretty important part.

Im not sure there should be an actual Dutch campaign/career though.
For all intends and purposes the Dutch Airforce/East india Airforce had a very limited role in the pacific war.

Nanuk66
07-20-2004, 03:50 AM
^ Aye, this is what i kinda wanted to ask!

What role did the dutch play in the Pacific war? I have no knowledge wotsoever of the dutch/japanese fighting.

Id imagine they wont make a campaign for the dutch as i cant imagine it lasts all that long as the Germans took over Holland quite early in the war, and im sure that had a deep effect on the existing dutch colonies in the Pacific. But i could be very wrong!

Is there any websites dedicated to that area that anyone can point me too? very interested to find out.

-----------------------------
English lesson 101:
The word is 'Lose' not 'Loose'. e.g.
That IL2 is gonna lose the fight against that 109.
That IL2's wing looks loose, its gonna fall off.
If i dive too vertically i will lose my wing. k thx.
------------------------------

Eagle_34
07-20-2004, 04:31 AM
Here is a very good website on the subject NaNuK66 http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/

The Allies major foothold in the Dutch East Indies was finally destroyed on 19 February 1942 by a wild day of aerial dogfighting over Java, which cost the Allies nearly 75 fighters. Sort of the kinda day that the Luftwaffe had dreamed of during the Battle of Britain. Japanese warships had penetrated into the Indian Ocean, attacked Ceylon (Sri Lanka), Indian coastal targets and merchant shipping, even eventually having midget submarines to raid as far away as Madagascar Island, off the South African coast, and at Sydney Harbour, Australia.