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View Full Version : Poor water animation in Assassin Creed Black Flag (PS4/XB1) ?



dandins
10-23-2013, 08:45 AM
I watched a few Gameplay and Techdemo videos from ubisoft and i definitly think - the world looks great.
Alot of new improvements and physical effects - just great.

But then i took a closer look to the water. When you are sailing around its looks very realistic - there is nothing to criticize.
Then the player jumped in the water and i was a little bit confused - it didnt felt wet at all. The water animation didnt changed - it was flowing just like before.
It was actually like - "there was nobody jumping in the water".
What iam talking about is a logical reaction of the water surface when something gets in it or moves around in it.
And there is nothing like that. Neither the player, nor any other objects(ships) cause any reaction of the water.
And i thought that this could be better for a next gen game ( and the ps4 has the power to handle this)

Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD19UsIsM5I&feature=youtu.be&t=3m35s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD19UsIsM5I&feature=youtu.be&t=3m35s)
(copy complete link into browser - when i implent the video - the "start at time" function doesnt work.)

The reason why i noticed that was: Ive seen better in a game that uses much less ressources than ps4 provide.
The following videos shows any lets play where the character is moving in the water. just look at the reactions of the water.
It feels like you are really in the water.

Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyqyQTGFRsc&feature=youtu.be&t=8m39s
(please copy link into browser - it seems like we are not allowed to post 2 videos in 1 post.)

what do you think about?

edit1: i finally found that video again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4ACKAUU3O0

EllJim
10-23-2013, 08:55 AM
Paragraphs .. Paragraphs... my eyes shut down after two lines in self defence. :D

as for it not feeling wet... really I'd hire a friend to splash you with water each time you jump off the boat. :)

I see what your saying but there are significant differences in the volume of water your talking about and the mathematics behind making the entire ocean react to everything (since it could not be limited to the player character only as it would just highlight it) is insane.

In your other video he's wondering around a 2 foot puddle, in Ac4 you have an entire ocean with ships, cannon shot , islands all playing into this and it would likely melt even a top end pc. It would be worse than prime 95.

As such I think they have done a good job making the water look decent and then adding a splash over lay for when he's swimming. (and ship bow waves etc)

However the ultimate test is going to be in playing it, if you feel it breaks your immersion than that's unfortunate and at that point it would be best to leave feedback for them in the official thread.

One last thing being an ocean your player/ ships don't have much of a displacement effect because the ocean is doing it's won thing anyway...

Jim.

dandins
10-23-2013, 09:13 AM
Paragraphs .. Paragraphs... my eyes shut down after two lines in self defence. :D

that wasnt me xD - the post was shaked - no idea why.

I expected a comparison between the puddle and the ocean - but it possible to bring some more local effects arounds the player in ACBF
(of cause there is no reaction in the whole ocean when somebody jumps in it xD)

I dont want to say - the the water doenst look good - its just less than i expected. (iam only talking about smal local effects around player/objects)

EllJim
10-23-2013, 09:56 AM
Probably something to do with the water "layer" if you watch the next gen vid they talk about how they created it.

SixKeys
10-23-2013, 11:23 AM
I don't know what kind of game Pikmin is exactly, but AC4 is a huge open world game. Open worlds always have more graphical limitations than linear games. For example TLoU has a fantastic level of detail everywhere because it's not as open as AC.

superkootje
10-23-2013, 11:39 AM
I know what you mean, But i'm sure (atleast I hope) that footage is of alpha/beta gameplay, and they're still going to adjust things.

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 11:44 AM
so... you want more splashes? I think there needs to be bigger splashes when hes swimming.

SixKeys
10-23-2013, 11:51 AM
To be honest, the only thing that (slightly) bugs me is that Edward still makes a huge splashing noise when he wades into the water. There should be different sounds for diving in headfirst vs. gracefully sliding into the waves.

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 11:54 AM
To be honest, the only thing that (slightly) bugs me is that Edward still makes a huge splashing noise when he wades into the water. There should be different sounds for diving in headfirst vs. gracefully sliding into the waves.

That bugs you? What about when hes climbing the ship and it you get that massive smacking against wood sound?

SixKeys
10-23-2013, 11:57 AM
That bugs you? What about when hes climbing the ship and it you get that massive smacking against wood sound?

That could be just a demo thing. The splashing noise has been there since AC2. In the Ezio games it was okay since you couldn't wade into water (only dive), but they should have fixed it by AC3 when they gave Connor new animations.

dandins
10-23-2013, 12:01 PM
well. i think the water is one of the main features in the game and you will jump a thousend times in it and out of it.

It should look a little more realistic to be "next gen", and its less about the horizontal flashes - its more about the little waves that appear on the water when something drops in or out.

I guess its very complicated to simulate that and you need a special middleware(?)

when i take a look at current gen gta 5 - you see the same problem. the character doesnt really affect the water around.

Mr_Shade
10-23-2013, 12:52 PM
I don't know what kind of game Pikmin is exactly, but AC4 is a huge open world game. Open worlds always have more graphical limitations than linear games. For example TLoU has a fantastic level of detail everywhere because it's not as open as AC.
Indeed.

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 01:03 PM
I just want bigger splashes. I don't need to have water deforming around things, just bigger splashes.

Then again this is hardly something to get fussed about.

adventurewomen
10-23-2013, 01:54 PM
Another complaining thread for a game that we all still have yet to play! :rolleyes:

Well anyway from the PS4 & PC AC4 demos I've played the water Animations and Ocean Caustics looked amazing and realistic.

So don't judge what you've seen in a video that shows less quality than if you were playing AC4.

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 02:00 PM
Another complaining thread for a game that we all still have yet to play! :rolleyes:

Well anyway from the PS4 & PC AC4 demos I've played the water Animations and Ocean Caustics looked amazing and realistic.

So don't judge what you've seen in a video that shows less quality than if you were playing AC4.

Hes talking about deformation of water which is not in AC4.

adventurewomen
10-23-2013, 02:06 PM
Hes talking about deformation of water which is not in AC4.

:rolleyes:

I know what he's talking about, the water deformation was great in the demos.

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 02:08 PM
:rolleyes:

I know what he's talking about, the water deformation was great in the demos.

That's not water deformation, its faked in the sense that splashes and froth make the illusion, like in AC3

adventurewomen
10-23-2013, 02:14 PM
That's not water deformation, its faked in the sense that splashes and froth make the illusion, like in AC3
If you noticed my first post on this thread you'll see that I'm also talking about water animation which includes splashes and deformations.

All water in games is a simulation..

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 02:27 PM
All water in games is a simulation..

No ****.

dandins
10-23-2013, 02:31 PM
Another complaining thread for a game that we all still have yet to play! :rolleyes:

Well anyway from the PS4 & PC AC4 demos I've played the water Animations and Ocean Caustics looked amazing and realistic.

So don't judge what you've seen in a video that shows less quality than if you were playing AC4.

your first post was very disparaging and from my point i can say - you did not understood what we are talking about.

I know that realtime waterdeformation caused by objects is very rare - you dont even find it in battlefield 4.

The easiest way to get this effect is to fake it with other simple effects like they did in Crysis.

*This is not a complaining thread - im sorry if somebody dont understood the intention of the post. I just saw something that "could" look a lil annoying - specially in a game where water playes a big role.*

edit: the simulation of the ocean itself is stunning and flawless - we are just talking about details.

edit2: i finally found that video again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4ACKAUU3O0

adventurewomen
10-23-2013, 02:59 PM
your first post was very disparaging and from my point i can say - you did not understood what we are talking about.
I do understand what you're talking about so don't try to undermine me - it's not going to work.


I know that realtime waterdeformation caused by objects is very rare - you dont even find it in battlefield 4.

The easiest way to get this effect is to fake it with other simple effects like they did in Crysis.
The only way you're going to know is wait till you play the game. Then speak from your experience, untill then don't base your opinion from watching a video about gameplay before you've played the game yourself.

Well the current way is to fake this effect then that's the way it's going to be then.


*This is not a complaining thread - im sorry if somebody dont understood the intention of the post. I just saw something that "could" look a lil annoying - specially in a game where water playes a big role.*
Again no need to try to undermine me with "If somebody don't understand.." This comment of yours is unnecessary.

I have experience and I've studied the art of games as my BA degree, I use the CryENGINE for my artwork.


edit: the simulation of the ocean itself is stunning and flawless - we are just talking about details.
Which is what was talking about, the ocean was stunning from the AC4 demos I've played - especially the PC version looks so beautiful!

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 03:01 PM
But hes talking about water deformation. Saying "don't judge by videos" doesn't work for everything... we know there is no water deformation. End of.

EllJim
10-23-2013, 03:04 PM
She was fairly making the comment that we don't know for sure until we have our hands on it. Well tbh your right it's not there but you can't say for certain what top end pc will look like :D

That NVidia demo is great but it was released this year and is running on a 680, will take a few years before that's mainstream :) Can't wait though :)

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 03:14 PM
She was fairly making the comment that we don't know for sure until we have our hands on it. Well tbh your right it's not there but you can't say for certain what top end pc will look like :D

That NVidia demo is great but it was released this year and is running on a 680, will take a few years before that's mainstream :) Can't wait though :)

I can, because this game was made on PC and ported to Next gen consoles. The Nvidia stuff they showed mentioned nothing about water deformation.

EllJim
10-23-2013, 03:22 PM
I can, because this game was made on PC and ported to Next gen consoles. The Nvidia stuff they showed mentioned nothing about water deformation.

I was trying to make the point that we haven't had hands on so best not judge too early, but as we have all seen they use effects to replace this.

... Nvidia demo is nothing but water deformation around objects... so um..??

TBH this is minutia not going to spoil the game for me (since I will be playing on 360 so wont even have the "good" sea) it all depends on your immersion when you have the pad in your hand.

However to OP it would be cool if the sea looked like that tech demo!

EDIT "judge to earl".... seriously ... REALLY!!? must type with glasses on....

adventurewomen
10-23-2013, 03:35 PM
She was fairly making the comment that we don't know for sure until we have our hands on it. Well tbh your right it's not there but you can't say for certain what top end pc will look like :D

That NVidia demo is great but it was released this year and is running on a 680, will take a few years before that's mainstream :) Can't wait though :)
Thank you & I agree!


I was trying to make the point that we haven't had hands on so best not judge to earl, but as we have all seen they use effects to replace this.

... Nvidia demo is nothing but water deformation around objects... so um..??

TBH this is minutia not going to spoil the game for me (since I will be playing on 360 so wont even have the "good" sea) it all depends on your immersion when you have the pad in your hand.

However to OP it would be cool if the sea looked like that tech demo!
Agreed! This is exactly what I mean & Thanks again! :)

LatinaC09
10-23-2013, 03:49 PM
Aren't the AC4 gameplay videos only based off the beta version of the game anyways? Or are they playing the final version? Either way I can't really comment until next Tuesday.

dandins
10-23-2013, 03:56 PM
Thank you & I agree!
Agreed! This is exactly what I mean & Thanks again! :)

thanks for filling the thread then.

@EllJim
I m not sure - but does Metro Last Night allready support this stuff?
Anyway cant wait to see this too - would be real step to a next gen water*

And yes, there is alot of hardware power required but i think we dont need the maximum version of it on our console :D

Usually the stuff they show us is final - you wont notice big changes... lets hope for some some nice water effects.

adventurewomen
10-23-2013, 03:57 PM
Aren't the AC4 gameplay videos only based off the beta version of the game anyways? Or are they playing the final version? Either way I can't really comment until next Tuesday.
Yeah the demos and reviews are based the Pre-Alpha stage code of the game. The final version of game code no one has played that until next Tuesday. :)


thanks for filling the thread then.
Did you completely ignore the post previous to this that I addressed to you? The first post on this thread page.. >__>

EllJim
10-23-2013, 04:06 PM
thanks for filling the thread then.

@EllJim
I m not sure - but does Metro Last Night allready support this stuff?
Anyway cant wait to see this too - would be real step to a next gen water*

And yes, there is alot of hardware power required but i think we dont need the maximum version of it on our console :D

Usually the stuff they show us is final - you wont notice big changes... lets hope for some some nice water effects.

Don't think metro had it, but they ahve always been about lighting more, I remember the first one nearly melting my cards then.

TBH it's the extra effort required, unlike lighting/ fog effects which have been included in a lot of the development packs for most engines now for a while (since it's more of an obvious choice) in this case you need several layers 1.) the water itself,2.)the objects it interacts with. Source engine does now have some liquid manipulation as we saw in Portal 2, but it was added in.


So thinking about it it's probably not the hardware so much as the effort required to do this. Depends how far they go as that Nvidia demo has 100's of thousands of particles... so love that light house demo, would like that for a screen saver!

Mr_Shade
10-23-2013, 04:22 PM
Dear me..

People who have played the demos have said the water looks great - which at the end of the day is the main thing - I know some would rather have higher levels of water simulation, for Next gen only -however I don't think it looks bad..


I'm sure we would see more complaints - if the game looked flat and unmoving like this on PS3 /Xbox..

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/far_c01a.jpg

And that's from a Ubisoft - great game [at the time] , so I'm allowed to compare ;)

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 04:24 PM
I just realised...

It can't be poor if it doesn't exist!!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jDNg-nJATOc/UR4U3Mm0yeI/AAAAAAAAAI0/HihV7_SEDbI/s200/ba-dum-tss1.jpg

dandins
10-23-2013, 04:29 PM
oh it wasnt metro xD it was uncharted 2 and just nvidia fluids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ9LI3Xzrls

we wont see this physx water next few years.

anyway, it doesnt really look nice in the game videos - lets see if it get better till next gen release.

EDIT:

Dear me..

People who have played the demos have said the water looks great - which at the end of the day is the main thing - I know some would rather have higher levels of water simulation, for Next gen only -however I don't think it looks bad..
I'm sure we would see more complaints - if the game looked flat and unmoving like this on PS3 /Xbox..
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/far_c01a.jpg
And that's from a Ubisoft - great game [at the time] , so I'm allowed to compare http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/wink.png

Steve Jobs - 'people don't know what they want until you show it to them.'

adventurewomen
10-23-2013, 04:34 PM
Dear me..

People who have played the demos have said the water looks great - which at the end of the day is the main thing - I know some would rather have higher levels of water simulation, for Next gen only -however I don't think it looks bad..


I'm sure we would see more complaints - if the game looked flat and unmoving like this on PS3 /Xbox..

http://i.imgur.com/uKKMIvf.jpg

And that's from a Ubisoft - great game [at the time] , so I'm allowed to compare ;)
Pretty much this, I agree with you Mr.Shade :)

Mr_Shade
10-23-2013, 04:36 PM
anyway, it doesnt really look nice in the game videos - lets see if it get better till next gen release.
Well if you are excepting it to look majorly different from the official videos, it may not.. since they use a mixture of formats - just so you know..

The main engine used in the game, works across the board, so the water - is basically the same on all formats - however it's improved for Next Gen...

The official 'Next Gen' - trailer - is what you should be looking at, if you want to see the improvements on Next Gen.



Steve Jobs - 'people don't know what they want until you show it to them.'
Well this is what you will be getting come release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4TZdt5DuuI


Game play videos from 3rd parties, maybe early code, but official trailers - should be closer to final, since they like to show the best they can.

Bastiaen
10-23-2013, 04:58 PM
I'm sick and tired of nitpicking. It's what really destroys the fun of games. Can you not just enjoy a fun game?

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 05:05 PM
I'm sick and tired of nitpicking. It's what really destroys the fun of games. Can you not just enjoy a fun game?

Yeah it was a bit nitpicky but I understand OP and at least he wasn't complaining.

dandins
10-23-2013, 05:07 PM
okay better close this thread - now people mix up everything and try to prove that this is a great looking game. i never doubt that.

it was all just about the water deformation from the player. a tiny thing which is present all the time.

lets not discuss about the beauty of the whole game - we all know its beautyful.

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 05:08 PM
okay better close this thread - now people mix up everything and try to prove that this is a great looking game. i never doubt that.

it was all just about the water deformation from the player. a tiny thing which is present all the time.

lets not discuss about the beauty of the whole game - we all know its beautyful.

Its okay bro, I know what you meant.

luckyto
10-23-2013, 05:12 PM
Have you ever been in the ocean? Unless the water is exceptionally calm, you get almost zero reaction from the water aside from your own splashing. This isn't a lake or a pool, the ocean's currents have a mind of their own. In medium to strong surf, there are almost no ripples from your movement. Your ripples are tiny in comparison to a single small 2-foot wave. Even calm riptides have more effect than any movement that a human can produce. The ripples you do make last only a few seconds even in calm water.

This is - hands down - the best looking water that I've ever seen in a game. I've been to the Caribbean. It looks far more realistic than anything I've ever seen done before.

Mr_Shade
10-23-2013, 05:13 PM
okay better close this thread - now people mix up everything and try to prove that this is a great looking game. i never doubt that.

it was all just about the water deformation from the player. a tiny thing which is present all the time.

lets not discuss about the beauty of the whole game - we all know its beautyful.
As did I, which is why I posted the videos.. showing the current sea engine [which is also responsible for water deformation, if there]


The official trailers, should be considered final - and the Next Gen shows the next gen improvements.

So, if you haven't seen it in those, it's more than not likely it's not in the game.

However, as a whole, the Sea engine does look good on all platforms, so hopefully that will be some consolation.

adventurewomen
10-23-2013, 05:14 PM
I'm sick and tired of nitpicking. It's what really destroys the fun of games. Can you not just enjoy a fun game?
I wholeheartedly agree!! :D


Have you ever been in the ocean? Unless the water is exceptionally calm, you get almost zero reaction from the water aside from your own splashing. This isn't a lake or a pool, the ocean's currents have a mind of their own.

This is - hands down - the best looking water that I've ever seen in a game. I've been to the Caribbean. It looks far more realistic than anything I've ever seen done before.
Agreed! :D

pacmanate
10-23-2013, 05:15 PM
As did I, which is why I posted the videos.. showing the current sea engine [which is also responsible for water deformation, if there]


The official trailers, should be considered final - and the Next Gen shows the next gen improvements.

So, if you haven't seen it in those, it's more than not likely it's not in the game.

However, as a whole, the Sea engine does look good on all platforms, so hopefully that will be some consolation.


:rolleyes:

I know what he's talking about, the water deformation was great in the demos.

I win