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SIR Phist
10-22-2013, 06:16 PM
Developers or QA or Rebecca?
It was ingenious to make a game that surrounds the use of fictitious programming/independent system (Animus).
I've come to accept that glitches/bugs that occur while playing can be viewed as problems with the Animus, rather than the game.
I like Miss Crane. I reckon you do too. So after five complete installments of the title series, I'd imagine she'd have her "baby" running as smoothly as I expect. That is to say I'm quite disappointed when my horse stops in the middle of an empty road. It's getting more and more difficult to hold Miss Crane accountable for these mistakes. It's frustrating and damages immersion encountering these kinds of problems. So I encourage the game's developers to insist that quality assurance do better at what they're supposed to do: assure quality.

Here are some of my observations.
NPCs rendering before my very eyes (I'll do a Hastings impression and interject something here, and it'll cause you to become distracted and hopefully realize that when I want to read his database entries I want to read pertinent information first for the intel, and immersion, THEN I might be entertained by Hastings' humor, but while I'm on mission etcetera I prefer to learn what's important and stay focused; THIS is what entertains me--not Hastings.)
Is it possible to render characters beyond visual range so I do not have to watch them spawn out of thin air?

Heads Up Displays kill immersion too. Arcade games have HUDs. Simulation games do not. Playing without SSI is more fun and it is easy to do. The buttons are on my controller; I don't need them on screen too. The weapons/tools selection works great and I can easily know what I'm using by the ancestor's interface (in his hands) without looking at it in HUD form either. From game one it is plenty effortless to know how close to death/desynchronization, as the screen begins to static and redden. Notoriety is easy to keep track of enough with Shaun's updates on. The only HUD element I want to keep on are Shaun's updates. Mini-maps...
Yeah, mini-maps—make me feel like a cheater. They’re too much help.
It can go away. But without it I'm in and out of the map screen too much and I'm taken out of an assassin's flow to see if I'm going the right way. As much as I love to use visual only I can't always. So I suggest a version of Eagle Vision that gives a better sense of direction toward objectives. Is this too hard?

Auto-centering can be eliminated. This leads to movement while riding, which has its own issues. Pressing joystick fully makes the horse trot, yes? Pressing partly makes it walk. Moving a horse straight forward sees it slow to a walk. Only when I steer slightly left or right will the horse trot. I suggest taking a number from ™Rockstar’s ©Red Dead Redemption (I did my best to understand the uses of ®©™ from source http://www.tarvinart.com/topic_copyright.html, only do I claim them as a consumer, so don’t sue me and feel free to petition having this system revised) and alter horses to a movement relative control. Pressing the movement joystick forward to move forward, right to move right, left to move left provides me with the control I enjoy while observing 360 degrees with the camera joystick. As I’m constantly correcting with camera relative movement paired with the auto-centering camera, this gets frustrating for navigating urban streets without bumping into people. I’m looking behind me and must move my joystick right to steer my horse left. And aren’t assassins supposed to be aware of who is where at all times?

Please advise regarding these topics.

Sushiglutton
10-22-2013, 06:18 PM
In AC4 Abstergo and not Rebecca will be handling the Animus programming. So you should be good.

HyperActive66
10-22-2013, 06:19 PM
Heads Up Displays kill immersion too. Arcade games have HUDs. Simulation games do not. Playing without SSI is more fun and it is easy to do. The buttons are on my controller; I don't need them on screen too. The weapons/tools selection works great and I can easily know what I'm using by the ancestor's interface (in his hands) without looking at it in HUD form either..

The developers have stated that they are not pushing for simulation or realism but for credibility

SIR Phist
10-22-2013, 06:45 PM
Okay. I can square with that and their mission.
In that, I ask they consider providing a consumer with the freedom and options to enjoy their product in the ways I’ve come to know them by. To me UBISOFT® games stand above all others because theirs are the ones that allow me to effectively play in my style. All I ask for are a few more elements that would complete the HUDless experience. I conjecture I’m not the only one looking forward to gaming without HUDs.

For you who like HUDs, I don't mean to offend you. You're free to have them. I'm happy with the options to affect HUD elements on/off myself.

SIR Phist
10-23-2013, 06:04 PM
The developers have stated that they are not pushing for simulation or realism but for credibility
Trying to play without the mini-map will make realism synonymous and genuinely test credibility. I’ll explain by summarizing Ratonhnhaké:ton’s story up until it doesn’t make sense.

Born to his single mother Ratonhnhaké:ton’s youth was a normal Kanien'kehá:ka childhood. One day playing hide and seek with his friends we get the first look at his skills at hunting when he uses their scattered footprints to track and find them in under 3 minutes. During his turn to hide, as he’s hiding he’s found and jostled by four white-skins. One is particularly violent and rings his neck while making insults and threats. Ratonhnhaké:ton asks the white-skin, “What is your name?” After receiving the name and being asked why he asked for it, he promises with all sincerity in his heart and eyes, “So I can find you!” He wakes up later after being unconscious by the butt of a musket to find his village burning. Years on he is haunted by knowledge he experienced first-hand that the white-skins are heartless and will eventually invade the frontier. During private counsel with his Clan Mother a spirit appears to him and confirms what he already knows, that white-skins will force themselves upon the land and destroy his home and his people if he does not do something. He asks what he must do in order to prevent such a fate. The spirit shows him a unique symbol he should seek, and he will meet a certain man that will train him. He’s not shown where to find it or specifically whom the man is. Once he awakens from his spirit journey he reinforces the symbol into his mind by drawing it himself in the dirt. His Clan Mother asks him where he saw the symbol, and he tells her the spirit showed him, sharing his vision with her before she blesses his journey. She reveals that she’s seen his symbol before, to the east. And he leaves the village in search of the symbol that will hopefully prevent the destruction of his people.

Well that’s it; he wanders the frontier somewhere east of his village and never finds the symbol. If you follow the dialogue, the cutscenes, the story, and do not rely on the mini-map, the story falls apart right here.

The only reason we go to Davenport’s property is because of a exclaimation point; that is the wrong symbol!
According to gameplay, Ratonhnhaké:ton meanders through the forest somewhere northeast of his home and knocks on the door of some random home (it may have well been Johnson Hall). It just so happenstances that a elder black man, and former assassin, answers the door and Ratonhnhaké:ton asks the stranger to train him? Luck? Coincidence? Destiny? Or just because we had it marked on a mini-map?

I look at the house. The carriage. The well. The guesthouse. The stables. The headstones. The toolsheds. I peered inside the home. I inspected every bit of that homestead for the symbol he was supposed to be looking for and never saw it. The thing I found that even remotely resembles it is a powder horn hanging by string above the fireplace under crossed muskets under the bear-head mount in the north parlor. The only other possible ‘clue’ there is the eagle statue inside. If either of these are what’s supposed to satisfy Ratonhnhaké:ton’s connection with what the spirit showed him, then please ignore this. But I’m not convinced, and as far as I’m concerned with what you hearsaid ®UBISOFT’s goal toward credibilty, I’ve debunked that from ACIII. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong and validate the story at this very point in the game PLEASE!

If UBISOFT & its game testers approached the gameplay without mini-maps they would’ve found this make/break hole in the story. I don’t propose the symbol should’ve been displayed like it is all over Masyaf. But I do expect the script to flow with proper credible congruence.
This, certainly, is not within Miss Crane or Abstergo’s control.

My name is Frank.
My gamertag is SIR Phist.
Feel free to find me, Ubisoft. The skills and insight I possess can be valuable to you, if not to someone else.

GreySkellig
10-23-2013, 07:00 PM
Oh the paragraphs! My eyes!

I can appreciate the amount of work that went into this post (although some of it was unnecessary, like minding your copyright marks and explaining Connor's whole back-story) but you might find your points are conveyed better by a more to-the-point approach. Most people don't enjoy reading massive posts--I know, I sometimes write them.

To address your actual point here, it is irritating that there's no story explanation for how Connor unerringly zeroes in on some of his destinations like a homing pigeon, and I'd definitely like to see that corrected. But I think the degree of total immersion you seem to be looking for, complete with exhaustive clue searches, mistakes AC for something it's not. We all have aspects of games we wish we could change. I, as a military historian, expect to have some serious beef with the naval combat in ACIV. I wish it was more simulation-oriented with longer reload times, less freedom of aim, and more durable ships. I can therefore sympathize with you and others who want to play the AC games to a higher degree of realism and challenge.

Ultimately though, Ubisoft is a company, and they have to turn a profit. The simple fact is, there's not as big of a market for a game with the level of simulation you or I want, and Ubi goes where the money is: casuals. I can't fault them for not catering to the hardcores. AC is a flagship franchise, and they'd lose massive sales if they made a more hardcore game. They do give a good number of HUD-removal options--not a perfect solution, but it's a nod to fans like us, and it's a step a lot of other games don't take.

Mr_Shade
10-23-2013, 07:07 PM
Do you have a smartphone or tablet?

AC4 you can disable the HUD, but use the Companion App - as a map - allowing you full access to it, at a glance.

Maybe this is useful?



As to your other points, I'l leave the community to discuss ;)

SIR Phist
10-23-2013, 07:29 PM
I don't doubt that would be useful. However, suggesting I should turn to an exterior medium for a more complete gaming experience is odd. Why not simply make the game what it should be? Why not make sure all those bases are covered within the retail product? Expecting us to spend more money beyond purchasing a copy itself is...I don't know. Is that business? Is that credibility?

Mr_Shade
10-23-2013, 07:55 PM
I don't doubt that would be useful. However, suggesting I should turn to an exterior medium for a more complete gaming experience is odd. Why not simply make the game what it should be? Why not make sure all those bases are covered within the retail product? Expecting us to spend more money beyond purchasing a copy itself is...I don't know. Is that business? Is that credibility?
it's free..

You needed an option to play AC4 HUD less, but have access to the map on demand, if you don't want to pause and check- that's the other option..


if you don't have a smartphone, tablet - I'm not suggesting you buy one.. it's an option..

LoyalACFan
10-23-2013, 08:29 PM
According to gameplay, Ratonhnhaké:ton meanders through the forest somewhere northeast of his home and knocks on the door of some random home (it may have well been Johnson Hall). It just so happenstances that a elder black man, and former assassin, answers the door and Ratonhnhaké:ton asks the stranger to train him? Luck? Coincidence? Destiny? Or just because we had it marked on a mini-map?

Actually, the Clan Mother told him to travel east (granted, those are vague instructions, but I'm pretty sure the manor is within a couple of miles of the Mohawk village) where he'd find an old man who held the symbol and once helped his mother. So Ratonhnhaké:ton traveled east, and while he was walking up the hill in Black Creek, an old man being chased by two mercenaries rode past him on horseback. He followed them, and soon saw the two mercenaries again, albeit disarmed, injured, and unhorsed. Then he overheard them talking about how the old man had beaten them and retreated into the manor down the road. Ratonhnhaké:ton didn't need to see the symbol to figure out that Achilles (a decrepit old man still able to best two guys half his age) was the guy he was looking for.

AC3's story does have plenty of holes, but this isn't one of them.

SIR Phist
10-23-2013, 09:10 PM
Actually, the Clan Mother told him to travel east (granted, those are vague instructions, but I'm pretty sure the manor is within a couple of miles of the Mohawk village) where he'd find an old man who held the symbol and once helped his mother. So Ratonhnhaké:ton traveled east, and while he was walking up the hill in Black Creek, an old man being chased by two mercenaries rode past him on horseback. He followed them, and soon saw the two mercenaries again, albeit disarmed, injured, and unhorsed. Then he overheard them talking about how the old man had beaten them and retreated into the manor down the road. Ratonhnhaké:ton didn't need to see the symbol to figure out that Achilles (a decrepit old man still able to best two guys half his age) was the guy he was looking for.

AC3's story does have plenty of holes, but this isn't one of them.

There it is. Thank you, LoyalACFan!

thekyle0
10-24-2013, 12:44 AM
Actually, the Clan Mother told him to travel east (granted, those are vague instructions, but I'm pretty sure the manor is within a couple of miles of the Mohawk village) where he'd find an old man who held the symbol and once helped his mother. So Ratonhnhaké:ton traveled east, and while he was walking up the hill in Black Creek, an old man being chased by two mercenaries rode past him on horseback. He followed them, and soon saw the two mercenaries again, albeit disarmed, injured, and unhorsed. Then he overheard them talking about how the old man had beaten them and retreated into the manor down the road. Ratonhnhaké:ton didn't need to see the symbol to figure out that Achilles (a decrepit old man still able to best two guys half his age) was the guy he was looking for.

AC3's story does have plenty of holes, but this isn't one of them.
I believe he saw three men ride by too quickly to get a good look at them (I didn't the first time). Furthermore, he didn't see the mercenaries again or have any idea that Achilles had beaten them up until after he reached the manor and asked Achilles to train him.

LoyalACFan
10-24-2013, 12:58 AM
I believe he saw three men ride by too quickly to get a good look at them (I didn't the first time). Furthermore, he didn't see the mercenaries again or have any idea that Achilles had beaten them up until after he reached the manor and asked Achilles to train him.

He didn't identify them when he saw them ride past him in Black Creek. He just followed them (perhaps intentionally because there was a hint of mystery and danger that could have suggested he was on the right track, or perhaps he just continued his planned course and stumbled across them again later). And yes, he did see the mercs again before speaking to Achilles. Right after you cross the bridge into the manor grounds, they're off to the left. I guess it's possible to charge past them without hearing what they have to say just like you can run past Terry and Godfrey when they're talking about tribes and whatnot, but that's kind of your own fault if that's the case.

scooper121s
10-24-2013, 01:09 AM
In AC4 Abstergo and not Rebecca will be handling the Animus programming. So you should be good.
Lol, good idea

thekyle0
10-24-2013, 01:11 AM
I suppose that wouldn't be the first time Ubisoft threw optional exposition into the AC narrative. Though it may be the case that Connor knew Achilles was capable of something, that does not explain how he makes the connection between Achilles and his search for the Assassin's symbol. When Connor knocks on the door he says, "I was told you could train me." How is he dead certain he came to the right place?

LoyalACFan
10-24-2013, 04:16 AM
I suppose that wouldn't be the first time Ubisoft threw optional exposition into the AC narrative. Though it may be the case that Connor knew Achilles was capable of something, that does not explain how he makes the connection between Achilles and his search for the Assassin's symbol. When Connor knocks on the door he says, "I was told you could train me." How is he dead certain he came to the right place?

It's not really "optional exposition" (which AC3 certainly did commit in other instances, I'm not denying that) so much as the player blasting past something that's right in front of them and missing a plot detail because of it. I mean, they're literally RIGHT THERE. It's so obvious it's almost equivalent to skipping a cutscene.

SIR Phist
10-24-2013, 08:03 PM
I suppose that wouldn't be the first time Ubisoft threw optional exposition into the AC narrative. Though it may be the case that Connor knew Achilles was capable of something, that does not explain how he makes the connection between Achilles and his search for the Assassin's symbol. When Connor knocks on the door he says, "I was told you could train me." How is he dead certain he came to the right place?

This was the subject of my post #5 in this thread.

thekyle0
10-24-2013, 09:56 PM
This was the subject of my post #5 in this thread.Um, yes. I agree with your point, and I'm refuting LoyalACFan's rebuttle to it. So if I can crack on...

It's not really "optional exposition" (which AC3 certainly did commit in other instances, I'm not denying that) so much as the player blasting past something that's right in front of them and missing a plot detail because of it. I mean, they're literally RIGHT THERE. It's so obvious it's almost equivalent to skipping a cutscene.
Returning myself to the mindset the game put me in during that moment, I had just seen three nondescript figures ride by in a second so I could not recognize them on the side of the road... or wherever they were. If I did notice them, I could only have dismissed them and forgot they were even there like I do every other non interactive npc in the game world. Without any reason to recognize them or draw my attention to them, I cannot see how blowing by them would have been tantamount to skipping a cut-scene.

Regardless, you have not indicated any device in the AC3 narrative (hidden or overt) that explains how Connor forms a connection between Achilles and his vision of the Assassin's symbol.

SIR Phist
10-25-2013, 05:51 PM
I interpret LoyalACFan’s post #10: you need to be as quick and as sharp as Ratonhnhaké:ton (or an assassin, or LoyalACFan) is to reach the conjecture that an old man that betters two young mercs is the one he wants.
And the only brick home in the area must be where that old guy lives?

I am still in agreement with my original thoughts. The storytelling here by devs could have been done more carefully.



Here I make another observation of a particular memory. I admit that this past Wednesday and Thursday I whoosh-banged through the story while skipping every cutscene that I could, so I could be aware of everything I was going to be doing for when I go through again at my normal pace. The memory this concerns is the assassination of William Johnson. I’m asked to approach without being detected. After I do so, there’s a cutscene. Then I’m placed on the other side of the property to the northeast. I approached from the southwest. Can anyone justify teleporting me from where I was please? I’m looking for a properly told story. Asking me to accept that that’s how Ratonhnhaké:ton did it during his life, I have trouble with believing he circled the entire property after making it within 50yards of Johnson; then, undetected, he moves all the way up the hill more than 100yrds away making it harder on himself? In light I skipped the cutscene, please tell me there’s at least four seconds of footage of him moving into that position and I’ll be satisfied.
My first attempt I used the north cliff to find out Ratonhnhaké:ton didn’t go that way.