PDA

View Full Version : Killing Civilians



gp2razor
10-17-2013, 10:37 AM
Do you think Edward will be able to kill civilians? At least before he turns assassin. It seems like a very pirate thing to do...

jayjay275
10-17-2013, 10:45 AM
Why would he need to kill civilians?

gp2razor
10-17-2013, 10:49 AM
I'm not saying he needs to, it's just, as a pirate, it seems like the type of thing he'd do.

HiddenKiller612
10-17-2013, 10:53 AM
If he had a reason perhaps... He is out for riches, not to dig ditches.

GreatBeyonder
10-17-2013, 10:54 AM
I imagine it'll be a major plotpoint, and a source of character development for Edward. Also, his mentor Blackbeard famously never murdered his captives. Though he DID kill his crewmen and other pirates, lest they forget to fear him. So there is a legitimate precedent for our hero to play nice.

adventurewomen
10-17-2013, 10:58 AM
This will never happen, it's against the tenants of the creed:


The Three Tenets of the Creed:

1. Stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent

"I would not have drawn attention to us. I would not have taken the life of an innocent."
―Malik Al-Sayf at Solomon's Temple.

2. Hide in plain sight

"Let the people mask you such that you become one with the crowd."
―Al Mualim.

3. Never compromise the Brotherhood

"Your actions must never bring harm upon us – direct or indirect!"
―Al Mualim.

This game isn't GTA where you have the ability to kill Civilians and never will because that would be boring and generic like other games.

EllJim
10-17-2013, 10:59 AM
I imagine it'll be a major plotpoint, and a source of character development for Edward. Also, his mentor Blackbeard famously never murdered his captives. Though he DID kill his crewmen and other pirates, lest they forget to fear him. So there is a legitimate precedent for our hero to play nice.

Maybe that's why they seem to have picked Blackbeard as Edwards "mentor/leader" figure. Allows them to play Pirate without stirring up a Storm.

pirate1802
10-17-2013, 11:13 AM
This will never happen, it's against the tenants of the creed:


The Three Tenets of the Creed:

1. Stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent

"I would not have drawn attention to us. I would not have taken the life of an innocent."
―Malik Al-Sayf at Solomon's Temple.

2. Hide in plain sight

"Let the people mask you such that you become one with the crowd."
―Al Mualim.

3. Never compromise the Brotherhood

"Your actions must never bring harm upon us direct or indirect!"
―Al Mualim.

This game isn't GTA where you have the ability to kill Civilians and never will because that would be boring and generic like other games.

Somehow Edward doesn't strike me as a good student of the Creed, don't you think?

Anyhow, I've lost count how many times each assassin has broken that second tenet over there lol.

jayjay275
10-17-2013, 11:22 AM
I still don't know why he would need to kill civilians though... If he needed loot - as any other pirate would - then he would go for other pirates or loot treasure off the wealthy.

pirate1802
10-17-2013, 11:32 AM
I still don't know why he would need to kill civilians though... If he needed loot - as any other pirate would - then he would go for other pirates or loot treasure off the wealthy.

Hypothetical situation: he sees a rich businessman carrying a bag of gold with him, and a few guards. he kills the guards but the main guy won't let go of his sack. What does he do? Its not really that hard to see how a man motivated purely by gold and riches may kill innocents.

HiddenKiller612
10-17-2013, 11:36 AM
Hypothetical situation: he sees a rich businessman carrying a bag of gold with him, and a few guards. he kills the guards but the main guy won't let go of his sack. What does he do? Its not really that hard to see how a man motivated purely by gold and riches may kill innocents.
You put a flintlock to his head and force him to give you his sack. Though Edward isn't just a common thief.

pirate1802
10-17-2013, 12:07 PM
You put a flintlock to his head and force him to give you his sack. Though Edward isn't just a common thief.

What if that guy has a weapon of his own and goes down to a fight? Well he steals off "empires", that makes him a thief. Sure, many pirates had a code of conduct, but many didn't as well. I an totally see a person like Vane killing a bystander and taking his gold chain just because it fancied him.

HiddenKiller612
10-17-2013, 12:11 PM
What if that guy has a weapon of his own and goes down to a fight? Well he steals off "empires", that makes him a thief. Sure, many pirates had a code of conduct, but many didn't as well. I an totally see a person like Vane killing a bystander and taking his gold chain just because it fancied him.
Edward could also use the blow pipe to put him to sleep before even taking out the gaurds. Taking the recourses from an empire is much different than stealing money from one person. Vane is sadistic, brutal, an animal in a mans body. Edward seems to be much different. Not every pirate kills for the fun of it. Edward became a pirate to satiate his lust for gold, not for blood.

pirate1802
10-17-2013, 12:34 PM
Edward could also use the blow pipe to put him to sleep before even taking out the gaurds. Taking the recourses from an empire is much different than stealing money from one person. Vane is sadistic, brutal, an animal in a mans body. Edward seems to be much different. Not every pirate kills for the fun of it. Edward became a pirate to satiate his lust for gold, not for blood.

Well what if the said situation occurs early, before he gets a blowpipe? :p

Lust for gold sometimes is satiated though the blood of innocents. I'm not saying he'll go on a psychopathic rampage, but if he had to choose between crates of gold and a life of an innocent, what will he choose? If it were a goody two-shoes assassin, he'll try his best to find a way without killing, but you can't expect such dedication from a pirate, or even a roguish assassin (Altair in the beginning on AC1 for example).

Either way, the assassins have a very lax definition of "innocent". Killing soldiers is alright, even if they are doing nothing but standing on their posts. :p

HiddenKiller612
10-17-2013, 12:50 PM
Well what if the said situation occurs early, before he gets a blowpipe? :p

Lust for gold sometimes is satiated though the blood of innocents. I'm not saying he'll go on a psychopathic rampage, but if he had to choose between crates of gold and a life of an innocent, what will he choose? If it were a goody two-shoes assassin, he'll try his best to find a way without killing, but you can't expect such dedication from a pirate, or even a roguish assassin (Altair in the beginning on AC1 for example).

Either way, the assassins have a very lax definition of "innocent". Killing soldiers is alright, even if they are doing nothing but standing on their posts. :p
Even a pirate would not want to draw unwanted attention to themselves. Killing an innocent over a bag of gold would not further their conquests of riches. Taking a ship with a full cargo, this is the pirate way. Edward must have a set of morals... he is after all on the verge of being an assassin. Even Ezio was not fully adhered to the creed in the begining... but he had no reason to kill innocents. A soldier will attack you on sight. It is more of a defensive kill than simply killing because. An innocent is a person who cannot defend themselves. So if a person were to draw a weapon on you, they aren't very innocent are they?

GreatBeyonder
10-17-2013, 01:56 PM
Assassins can kill cops. If Desmond killed a security guard or policeman or soldier, it would be a PR disaster, but Ezio and Connor and Edward do it every five minutes and its alright. Altair gets a free pass as it WAS the Middle Ages and he was at open war with almost everyone in the Holy Land and he was specifically raised by Al Mualim, master of the mixed message, to kill anyone. who looks at you funny and owns a sword.

But outside of a holy war, the guards are just decent folk trying to protect their neighborhood from the murdering psycho, even during the American Revolution. The Assassins LOVE to play fast and loose with their creed, despite their protestations.

SixKeys
10-17-2013, 02:06 PM
People sure are obsessed with killing civilians in these games. :rolleyes: The only thing that annoys me is that we're no longer able to interact with them in other ways, like punch them or knock them over. A few times when I was really frustrated with a mission, it would give me satisfaction to punch a random civilian in the face to vent my frustration. Since AC3 that ability is gone. I don't want to kill them, but I enjoyed the aspect of social stealth where being hostile towards them would make things more difficult for yourself. This aspect is what AC4 really needs.

pacmanate
10-17-2013, 02:25 PM
Edward isn't allowed to kill chickens so killing civilians is out of the picture.

GreatBeyonder
10-17-2013, 02:42 PM
We can kill whales but not chickens... oh, Ubisoft...

pirate1802
10-17-2013, 02:47 PM
Even a pirate would not want to draw unwanted attention to themselves. Killing an innocent over a bag of gold would not further their conquests of riches.

What about a civilian carrying bags though a secluded area? I'm just trying to say that while yes, many pirated did adhere to some code, it is not unthinkable that a pirate, who is a scumbag at his core, would kill an innocent given the means, motive and opportunity. Which is technically what they do all the time already.


I'm just trying to say that Taking a ship with a full cargo, this is the pirate way.

And I guess all the guards onboard the said ship are not-innocent. :p


Edward must have a set of morals... he is after all on the verge of being an assassin.

Darby described him more as one of those mercenaries whom Ezio used to hire. Also that the Assassins keep lecturing him for veering off the instructed path.


A soldier will attack you on sight. It is more of a defensive kill than simply killing because. An innocent is a person who cannot defend themselves. So if a person were to draw a weapon on you, they aren't very innocent are they?

Nah. Not unless you're notorious. At most they'll shove you away if they are guarding something important.

Sushiglutton
10-17-2013, 02:51 PM
Either way, the assassins have a very lax definition of "innocent". Killing soldiers is alright, even if they are doing nothing but standing on their posts. :p

Well there is no chance I will take a 20 meter detour just to spare some guard :p

pirate1802
10-17-2013, 03:04 PM
Well there is no chance I will take a 20 meter detour just to spare some guard :p

heartless bastard you are, killing people to save time. :(

adventurewomen
10-17-2013, 03:08 PM
No one wants to get desynchronized, you do get some leeway you can kill one Civilian or one domestic animal if you kill another then you'll get desynchronized. :D

SixKeys
10-17-2013, 03:11 PM
I think the limit is three, actually? At least it was in the Ezio games. Three civilian/domestic animal kills and you desynch.

In AC1 you could kill civilians after finishing the main story.

Jexx21
10-17-2013, 03:11 PM
sometimes i kill insects

adventurewomen
10-17-2013, 03:13 PM
I think the limit is three, actually? At least it was in the Ezio games. Three civilian/domestic animal kills and you desynch.

In AC1 you could kill civilians after finishing the main story.
I remember it being 2 as the limit.

Hold up I'ma check.. loads up my AC3.. brb

Jexx21
10-17-2013, 03:15 PM
it is in fact three in all games except the first one

Sushiglutton
10-17-2013, 03:20 PM
heartless bastard you are, killing people to save time. :(

What can I say, I'm trying to save the world (by collecting feathers).

Jexx21
10-17-2013, 03:22 PM
i save the world every day by collecting feathers left by the glorious eagles on my window sills at night while I stare at the sun

adventurewomen
10-17-2013, 03:22 PM
I just refreshed my memory, the limit is indeed 3! I just loaded up AC3 I killed two Domestic Animals and killed one Civilian and then got desynchronized.. Just to make sure I then killed two Civilians and one Domestic Animal then got desynchronized.

For some reason I remember the limit on killing Civilians as 2 from AC2 & Brotherhood - IDK why though. :-|

Jexx21
10-17-2013, 03:24 PM
the answer to your questions lies within the subconcious of a dear animal

I-Like-Pie45
10-17-2013, 03:26 PM
innocence is all up to interpretation

in fact no one is innocent is you look at the world this way

the AC games should allow you to kill as many civilians as possible because their innocence is only up to interpretation. so what if they technically haven't done any wrong. Just think of some reason and look the other way as you go stab stab

adventurewomen
10-17-2013, 03:27 PM
i save the world every day by collecting feathers left by the glorious eagles on my window sills at night while I stare at the sun
This is my everyday life.


the answer to your questions lies within the subconcious of a dear animal
You are right, my friend.

Stealth Gamer92
10-17-2013, 03:56 PM
innocence is all up to interpretation

in fact no one is innocent is you look at the world this way

the AC games should allow you to kill as many civilians as possible because their innocence is only up to interpretation. so what if they technically haven't done any wrong. Just think of some reason and look the other way as you go stab stab

Noone is inocent, everyone is/are expendable.

pirate1802
10-17-2013, 05:06 PM
Nothing is innocent, everything is guilty.

k4Anarky2011
10-17-2013, 06:09 PM
i save the world every day by collecting feathers left by the glorious eagles on my window sills at night while I stare at the sun
You ****ting me? But damn if that's true, then I envy you... That's what I wanna do later on when I earned enough money for an early retirement. Just find a cottage or a farm somewhere in coastal Canada or Alaska, where I can just be there. Where I can just take care of my crops, hike through the forest if I want to, take a swim in the ocean if I want to.

Cornik22
10-17-2013, 06:42 PM
It will work just like in previous games. You can shoot them darts, too (that was shown in one of the recent demo videos). So I'm wondering, let's say you need to kill a target, and you shoot the berserk dart to the civilian who is closer to him. Will he kill the target? That would be hilarious, punching the templar to death.

Sturnz0r
10-17-2013, 06:47 PM
Edward can't kill chickens, but Adewale can so as to replenish his health.

Racist!

I love it.

favorite innocent killing related activity is to tripwire kitty kats in ac3, you just keep petting them towards the bomb and clear out at last second. they go flying

Shahkulu101
10-17-2013, 06:59 PM
Racist!

I love it.

favorite innocent killing related activity is to tripwire kitty kats in ac3, you just keep petting them towards the bomb and clear out at last second. they go flying

Please delete this post or at least my quote.

pirate1802
10-17-2013, 07:18 PM
It will work just like in previous games. You can shoot them darts, too (that was shown in one of the recent demo videos). So I'm wondering, let's say you need to kill a target, and you shoot the berserk dart to the civilian who is closer to him. Will he kill the target? That would be hilarious, punching the templar to death.

lol I'll sure try that.

Shahkulu101
10-17-2013, 07:20 PM
I reckon the guard would just swiftly stab him in the gut if that were the case. ^