PDA

View Full Version : Open letter to developers, publishers and everybody else.



dex3108
10-07-2013, 03:45 PM
This specific letter/post is primary for Ubisoft developers.


Last couple of weeks i am reading a lot of negative comments for AC4 and Watch Dogs. Some of them are justified but majority of those comments are rude and not justified at all. Also there are double standards for games apparently because some features are heavily criticized in one game but in other game those same features are glorified by gamers and journalists. Today we have thing called internet that is accessible for broader audience and some of those people are never did something by themselves for somebody else. Those kind of people are often give them self right to criticize developers work but not in a good way. They donít understand how hard is for devs to read those kind of comments and how those comments can affect people on personal level. I am not saying that we should not make negative comments if something we didnít like, i am just saying that gamers need to express those comments in nice way. Every comment/post/review can and it is used as feedback. So instead of assaulting devs and insulting them make reasonable complains with explanation why you donít think it is good idea. At the end of day developers are HUMANS and every person should treat other human being with respect. So dear devs there are gamers that understand you and your troubles and we are with you. Do your work as best as you can and you will always have support. Thank you for your hard work and sleepless nights, thank you for providing us hours of entertainment and good stories. Thank you to that guy/girl who is spending hours making textures perfect, thank you to audio team who is recording most ridiculous and minor things to make atmosphere right, tnx to all writers who are reading all of those books even if they donít like them, tnx for all programmers (code monkeys and hamsters) for making gameplay elements possible, tnx to all art directors, game directors, creative directors, producers and studio representativesÖ who are guiding dev teams. But biggest Thank You goes to Community Developers, Community Managers and Forum Moderators who are in the front line. Tnx for being calm and patient with you community.


Also every person who are complaining on something that is in game and telling others how that is easily repairable/changeable i have to say only one thing try to make that by yourself. Sit down and make game, make ONE level or even ONE 3D model (with proper texturing) and then go on internet and complain about something. You can do it there are free tools to do that, from picture editing software to game engine. Experience what many devs around world experience every day. After you do that post your work on internet (YouTube, forums, blogsÖ) and read comments. Do this and then you will know how bad comments can hurt you.


And for all devs please be honest donít lie to your fans. Donít hide things from us even if they are bad. Also if you can read our feedback as often as you can and take your time to develop something. I know that there are publishers milestones and requirements but if you can try to talk with publisher.


Dear publishers you will get more money if your customers are happy. Your developers are need to be happy and comfortable too. In the end everything depends on your behavior. Treat your people bad you will get bad product and that will be punished by your customers. Treat your customers badly your earnings will be hurt if we look in long term. Once you lose gamers trust you will work really hard to gain it again.


We are all want best so we are all need to work together to achieve that. In the end publishers want good selling results, devs want ambitious project and gamers want good value for their money.

ze_topazio
10-07-2013, 04:04 PM
We are paying good money for it, we have the right to be demanding.

dex3108
10-07-2013, 04:07 PM
You have right to complain but you don't have right to insult. :)

Mr_Shade
10-07-2013, 04:07 PM
Hightlighted to the whole team ;)


I will just point out - that a lot of people are judging the game on old code - either from events OR even worse, from off screen footage.


The demos some may have played, are not final - so some AI glitches etc are bound to happen.. and off screen filmed footage - is the worse type to judge anything by..


Any complaints - or - suggestions are always forwarded - however ranting and swearing, might not always get you support..


We are VERY close to release now, so lets wait out for the reviews - before anyone starts boycotting the game [due to preview / old code]

prince162010
10-07-2013, 04:18 PM
Hightlighted to the whole team ;)


I will just point out - that a lot of people are judging the game on old code - either from events OR even worse, from off screen footage.


The demos some may have played, are not final - so some AI glitches etc are bound to happen.. and off screen filmed footage - is the worse type to judge anything by..


Any complaints - or - suggestions are always forwarded - however ranting and swearing, might not always get you support..


We are VERY close to release now, so lets wait out for the reviews - before anyone starts boycotting the game [due to preview / old code]

u are right Mr_Shade :)

ACHILLES4713
10-07-2013, 04:23 PM
Awesome! Really good post. Publishers definitely need to read this and realize that they will get the most return for their investment if they allow developers to take the time needed to make a top quality product. And they need to stop turning creative projects into generic crap. We've seen this happen dozens of times if not more. The 2007 version of Splinter Cell: Conviction vs the one that was released, Overstrike vs Fuse, Dead Space 3's focus on action over horror (many people loved the DS3 DLC "Awakened" more precisely because it focused more on horror), etc. I'm sure there are other examples, but that's what came to mind when I was thinking about this topic.

silvermercy
10-07-2013, 04:31 PM
That's a brilliant post OP! My sentiments exactly! :)

There will always be criticism and some negative things in any game, but let's all try to make sure whatever criticism we have is constructive.

Mr_Shade
10-07-2013, 04:35 PM
u are right Mr_Shade :)
It does happen sometimes ​LOL ;)

Shahkulu101
10-07-2013, 04:39 PM
Never have liked baseless complaints but this place is generally clean in that respect barring a few who are quickly banned. Most criticism on here is constructive - even if there is quite a lot of it.

Mr_Shade
10-07-2013, 04:49 PM
Most criticism on here is constructive - even if there is quite a lot of it.
Some is misguided though - basing that criticism on preview code / off screen footage - and some are older members, who knee jerk post.. ;)

adventurewomen
10-07-2013, 04:53 PM
Great thread OP, finally nice to see a positive thread and I agree with you. :)

I always prefer reading constructive based perspectives instead of baseless misguided comments.

I also must say thank you Ubisoft for all the hard work over the years, I appreciate it! :)

SixKeys
10-07-2013, 05:06 PM
Some is misguided though - basing that criticism on preview code / off screen footage - and some are older members, who knee jerk post.. ;)

Can you really blame those people, though? Demos and walkthroughs are meant to create an accurate representation of the final product. If the demos are glitching all over the place or include things which are later removed from the final game without warning *cough*randomevents*cough*, IMO people have the right to be concerned and even suspicious. What else do we have to go on except promises and preview footage based on old code? Things that may not seem like a big deal to the devs, because they're already further into development and know which things have been improved, may look like huge faults to fans who think the demos are an accurate representation of the game they'll be getting at launch.

I absolutely agree that name-calling and outright bashing is unacceptable, but I rarely see that happening here. Most of the time when people complain about previews, they back up their arguments with the footage we've been shown. If the footage is a bad representation of the final game, that's not the fans' fault.

Mr_Shade
10-07-2013, 05:29 PM
Can you really blame those people, though? Demos and walkthroughs are meant to create an accurate representation of the final product. If the demos are glitching all over the place or include things which are later removed from the final game without warning


Any OFFICIALLY released demo - fair enough - however a lot of the footage seen so far - is leaked - or - from play test events - at most events people are asked NOT to film, or are told the game is early code and subject to changes - due to those very reasons..

The team have spent a lot of time and blood, sweat and tears - making a great game - they must really hate seeing the glitchy badly encoded videos - basically 'ruin' the game for some people..

When that footage is on youtube - people assume it's final gameplay - even writing articles based on it - when in fact it maybe nearly a year old.


If the footage is a bad representation of the final game, that's not the fans' fault.
Maybe not, but what else can we do, when the footage is VERY early code and may misrepresent the game?

We do remove it from the forums - only to be then accused of hiding something.. OR - we get abuse.. lol



We can go blue in the face explaining to people at events, that the code is early etc - only to have someone upload a sneaky video to Youtube - and then we have people slating the game based on that footage :(



End of the day - if it's not an official video - anything seen so far, should be considered early code - and you shouldn't damn the final game due to that.. :)

Things change from the early code - however some people ignore that fact - no matter how much myself or others post.. so we have issues.

shobhit7777777
10-07-2013, 05:44 PM
I find it ironic that the game (AC4) which may be trying to bring in genuine freshness into the franchise (Thats what I feel at least) is the game that is getting flak. Flak which is born out of a disdain for the pattern of stale gameplay plaguing the franchise.

I blame AC3....and parts of ACB and ACR. **** you. You know who you are....you rotten game features and narrative elements.

and **** Desmond. I hope that glowing thingy hurt like hell.

pacmanate
10-07-2013, 05:48 PM
OP just wants free game.

dex3108
10-07-2013, 06:08 PM
OP just wants free game.

OP is competent enough to make money by itself for games :P

poptartz20
10-07-2013, 07:51 PM
great job OP!

I support your post! These guys do work really hard. and we should by no means hold our tongues about we do and don't like. But there is a way to go about it instead of raging on like savage idiots.

pacmanate
10-07-2013, 07:58 PM
great job OP!

I support your post! These guys do work really hard. and we should by no means hold our tongues about we do and don't like. But there is a way to go about it instead of raging on like savage idiots.

If we didnt rage like savage idiots we wouldnt have gotten holsters. Fact of the matter is, the more you argue, the easier it is for them to notice you.

Sushiglutton
10-07-2013, 08:36 PM
This is a good post in genral I think. Gamers are often too negative (guilty as charged) and don't appreicate the hard work enough. I don't think criticism should ever be hostile or personal. I understand that a lot of my feedback is based on misinformation and/or is stupid in general, but I can only base it on what I see/know which is not that much. Anyway good on you for writing this letter.

ze_topazio
10-07-2013, 09:34 PM
If we didnt rage like savage idiots we wouldnt have gotten holsters. Fact of the matter is, the more you argue, the easier it is for them to notice you.

If we're like:

Mr. producer i really enjoyed the game but i think this and that should be fixed, but if you don't want to fix I'm fine with it because i really appreciate the effort you are putting in this amazing games, thanks for everything i love you all.

Producers are like:

You heard that? they're fine with it, no need to fix anything.


But if we are like:

That was awful, die, i hope you all die, fix this and that or I'll shoot you twice and then I'll fart in your general direction, your mother is a prostitute, your father is gay, thanks for everything i love you all.

Maybe producers are like:

You heard that? they are slightly upset by it, perhaps we should fix it.

Jexx21
10-07-2013, 09:51 PM
Yea, but I don't wanna be the ******* that gives devs death threats.

SixKeys
10-07-2013, 10:07 PM
Any OFFICIALLY released demo - fair enough - however a lot of the footage seen so far - is leaked - or - from play test events - at most events people are asked NOT to film, or are told the game is early code and subject to changes - due to those very reasons..

I'm not talking about the leaked videos filmed with a potato, I'm talking about official walkthroughs and stage demos that have major glitches or features that are widely advertised as being in the game. The AC3 E3 demo showed random events and we all know how that turned out. There were also several officially released videos of the covert escort mechanic in AC3 where the escort party would always glitch at the exact same spot. The AC4 jungle demo showed Edward failing at a running assassination and the guard simply ignored him. This was before the whole demo crashed. :rolleyes:

I completely understand that demos aren't necessarily representative of the final product. All I'm saying is that that's all fans have to go on for nearly a year. If our first impressions of a new game show a lot of the same faults from the last one, it's only natural for us to be worried.

pacmanate
10-07-2013, 10:42 PM
I'm not talking about the leaked videos filmed with a potato,

I actually find it fascinating how they still exist.

pirate1802
10-08-2013, 05:09 AM
If we're like:

Mr. producer i really enjoyed the game but i think this and that should be fixed, but if you don't want to fix I'm fine with it because i really appreciate the effort you are putting in this amazing games, thanks for everything i love you all.

Producers are like:

You heard that? they're fine with it, no need to fix anything.


But if we are like:

That was awful, die, i hope you all die, fix this and that or I'll shoot you twice and then I'll fart in your general direction, your mother is a prostitute, your father is gay, thanks for everything i love you all.

Maybe producers are like:

You heard that? they are slightly upset by it, perhaps we should fix it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Well that escalated quickly!

pacmanate
10-08-2013, 09:02 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Well that escalated quickly!

It's how it should be.

Seriously, if fans didn't voice their opinion and shout like idiots, they wouldn't be heard. Say it nicely and it comes across as it doesn't bother us too much. We need to be forceful to get what we want.

pirate1802
10-08-2013, 09:05 AM
It's how it should be.

Seriously, if fans didn't voice their opinion and shout like idiots, they wouldn't be heard. Say it nicely and it comes across as it doesn't bother us too much. We need to be forceful to get what we want.

Ofcourse, I just feel that while being forceful, fans shouldn't piss on parts of the game that doesn't deserve it. Far often I see that X or Y feature was bad, so the whole game sucked! Rather than X and Y sucked!!! You know in the interwebz age, a game either is too good or sucks hard. There is no middle ground.

pacmanate
10-08-2013, 09:16 AM
Ofcourse, I just feel that while being forceful, fans shouldn't piss on parts of the game that doesn't deserve it. Far often I see that X or Y feature was bad, so the whole game sucked! Rather than X and Y sucked!!! You know in the interwebz age, a game either is too good or sucks hard. There is no middle ground.

TBH if anyone says "AC3 is bad" or whatever, people normally give reasons, or at least I do, most people here do as well.

roostersrule2
10-08-2013, 09:18 AM
Ofcourse, I just feel that while being forceful, fans shouldn't piss on parts of the game that doesn't deserve it. Far often I see that X or Y feature was bad, so the whole game sucked! Rather than X and Y sucked!!! You know in the interwebz age, a game either is too good or sucks hard. There is no middle ground.Sleeping Dogs is middle ground.

Mr_Shade
10-08-2013, 10:36 AM
The AC4 jungle demo showed Edward failing at a running assassination and the guard simply ignored him. This was before the whole demo crashed. :rolleyes:

I completely understand that demos aren't necessarily representative of the final product. All I'm saying is that that's all fans have to go on for nearly a year. If our first impressions of a new game show a lot of the same faults from the last one, it's only natural for us to be worried.

Thing is - it was said time and time again - that the AC4 demo was very early code..?


So, people should be ready for some issues with it - but - It's interesting though - since as you say - some people expect things to be perfect and reflect the game..

Sad thing is - if they wait for 100% completed code - the game is so close to release, it's not much point showing it - and the fans would complain about that too..

Video leaks - happen - even though we would rather they didn't -since as I say, it gives people the wrong impression of the game - people tried filming at Eurogamer - even though we said they couldn't - they still tried..


So, it's really tricky..


Show CGI trailers - get 'misleading' complaints - Show early code - get 'game is glitchy mess' complaints..


Oh well - I can understand though so no insult to you, so hope none is taken?

The guys who have played that early code - where impressed for the most part - so can't wait till they see the final game [which has been improved even more, so my spies tell me ]

pirate1802
10-08-2013, 10:45 AM
Sleeping Dogs is middle ground.

no it rocks!!!!!!!!

EscoBlades
10-08-2013, 01:34 PM
It's how it should be.

Seriously, if fans didn't voice their opinion and shout like idiots, they wouldn't be heard. Say it nicely and it comes across as it doesn't bother us too much. We need to be forceful to get what we want.

Totally wrong. You can express your opinion and get your point across without sounding like someone took a hammer to all of your fingers.

Members of the team who work with community (Forum Managers, Moderators, Community Developers) have to separate constructive feedback (even if it hurts to read) from "noise".

If your emotional plea crosses into the realm of name calling and hyper aggressive posturing, then it will almost always be deemed as noise.

Mr_Shade
10-08-2013, 01:37 PM
Well said ;)


End of the day - it's about the quality of feedback - if you are civil and polite AND can put forward a valid reason for something, it WILL be noticed and passed on.

100 people agreeing with a civil thread - put across well is STILL very valid - in fact the holster thread is a prime example - or the dreaded hood thread..



If people post rants and swearing - or worse yet - spam threads.. I wouldn't look twice - I will still send it on, IF I personally think it's worth it, however many times it's not, since no one would read such things. ;)

pacmanate
10-08-2013, 03:25 PM
You can still be angry and put forward constructive ideas.

luckyto
10-08-2013, 09:44 PM
To be fair, most people are judging it on AC3 - which was a a finished released product.

While I don't hold the developers responsible, I do hold the company's senior executives responsible.

To the OP, yes, you are right - people should really stop blaming and insulting the developers. They do the best they can given the restraints given to them by technology and their employers. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at Ubisoft or their senior leadership team - because they are the ones who choose to push out yearly releases that are "good enough" without investing more time and money in a product that can compete against games/gaming companies that go above and beyond to make out the biggest most polished product possible (aka Rockstar.)

Developers work their *** off. They do their best. Sometimes they make decisions we don't agree with, but that is going to happen. And they certainly want to make a game everyone loves.

It's not their fault that a game like AC3 gets released and is full of bugs. Not their fault at all.

Jexx21
10-08-2013, 09:47 PM
i love the devs and some of the execs are cool too

see Jade Raymond.

I-Like-Pie45
10-09-2013, 01:48 AM
you should be careful with what you say

too many mean words and it could result in hi-larious antics like Phil Fish

Assassin_M
10-09-2013, 03:23 AM
You can still be angry and put forward constructive ideas.
Do you want to be a nagging child or a constructive member of the communitai?

wait....don't answer that

HyperActive66
10-09-2013, 05:40 AM
Good read.

pirate1802
10-09-2013, 06:55 AM
too many mean words and it could result in hi-larious antics like Phil Fish

Haha that guy turned out to be a total joke.

roostersrule2
10-09-2013, 07:37 AM
I give this deck a try.http://www.derrckmde.com/1.jpg
http://www.derrckmde.com/2.jpg
http://www.derrckmde.com/3.jpg
http://www.derrckmde.com/4.jpg
http://www.derrckmde.com/5.jpgYou'd give any deck a try.