PDA

View Full Version : Prediction For Dominant Faction/Deck After Forgotten Wars is Released



silentbobus
09-25-2013, 06:52 PM
Anyone care to speculate?

Irgy_
09-25-2013, 11:59 PM
If I was to guess who'd be most willing to speculate it would be you silentbobus, but if you're not I don't know that I dare :)

I predict it will be different just after it's released compared to when the dust has settled, that seems pretty safe.

Ok, I'll give it a go, I guess I can laugh about how wrong I was in a couple of months. From what I've seen, Kelthor will be better than ever thanks to the 3-drop with bloodthirst, just what the deck needs (or didn't need since it's good already), but losing to OTK will still be a problem. Dhamiria lock hasn't gained much but should stay strong. Sanctuary will become good, they gained a decent 2-drop which they sorely needed. Ishuma will probably still be the best hero for them. Necro in general will still have good decks but be much less over-popular. As for the new faction, no idea.

silentbobus
09-26-2013, 12:42 AM
If I was to guess who'd be most willing to speculate it would be you silentbobus, but if you're not I don't know that I dare :)

I predict it will be different just after it's released compared to when the dust has settled, that seems pretty safe.

Ok, I'll give it a go, I guess I can laugh about how wrong I was in a couple of months. From what I've seen, Kelthor will be better than ever thanks to the 3-drop with bloodthirst, just what the deck needs (or didn't need since it's good already), but losing to OTK will still be a problem. Dhamiria lock hasn't gained much but should stay strong. Sanctuary will become good, they gained a decent 2-drop which they sorely needed. Ishuma will probably still be the best hero for them. Necro in general will still have good decks but be much less over-popular. As for the new faction, no idea.

I was torn between Dhamiria or Sandalphon being the Hero to beat, but then I realized it could very well be an Academy Hero. I think Yukiko Lock is probably dead because of the patch and Necro will be weaker/less played, but perhaps still strong enough to be viable. I'm also hopeful that most OTK will no longer be played. But I'm curious about the Rage 3 drop now. I like Kelthor but I don't like running any rage creatures outside of Crusher and Shaman. Another 3 drop along those lines would be a welcome addition.

I'd also like a shot at playing Zardoc, but I am still something like 72 Wild Cards away from making that happen, provided I go that route. It seems more likely I'll go the finish up my Dhamiria deck or build my Sandalphon deck route. With a quick stab at making a Necro deck once I finally have Atropos.

Irgy_
09-26-2013, 02:03 AM
Forgot to mention Sandalphone - he gained nothing that I can see, so between that and people being increasingly more prepared to deal with SotS I suspect he won't be as awesome as he once was. I actually think wombo-combo will been seen more in either Sanctuary or Acadamy via the new Akane.

I also forgot to mention OTK decks. The nerf to avalanche will kill the throne+inheritance+avalanche combo, probably marking the end of Yukiko lock. The existing mill decks (i.e. the ones that don't really mill at all but are mill decks because they play no other win condition) might die because people will be playing more anti-mill cards to counter Academy mill decks, meaning mill is no longer a free win-condition. It won't make them that terrible necessarily but it might be enough to mean it's better to just play an actual win condition, i.e. a non-mill OTK deck. Otherwise though I haven't seen anything that makes other OTK decks any worse, and a few things which might make them better. I suspect there'll be a fair few new ones if anything.

Finally, I also think there'll be an increase in random-Phrias now that you can buy the hero with wildcards (not to mention the Dark Assassins). Not to mention a couple of the new inferno creatures look like suggest even more aggressive options are available.

Looking forward to seeing how wrong I am!

Hklooster
09-26-2013, 07:50 AM
I'm actually thinking Sandalphone will be top tier in forgotten wars. Virtually all the new creatures for haven are very good and allow for a very good rush (something Sandalphon already excells in). Air now has an alternative mass removal in forked lightning, which combined with the wombo combo would make Sandalphon (3-6-1) very strong. I can't really see it not being tier 1 actually....

Pjovejas
09-26-2013, 08:03 AM
From the times of MtG I'm huge fan of controll/mill/similar decks (yeah, yeah, curse me, Slowpoke/OTK haters :)). So I'm very curious if the new mill strategy will become viable. I see that Void Judgment may become usefull as mill card, protecting the graveyards reshufling to the decks...

silentbobus
09-26-2013, 12:05 PM
I'm actually thinking Sandalphone will be top tier in forgotten wars. Virtually all the new creatures for haven are very good and allow for a very good rush (something Sandalphon already excells in). Air now has an alternative mass removal in forked lightning, which combined with the wombo combo would make Sandalphon (3-6-1) very strong. I can't really see it not being tier 1 actually....

I was thinking along these lines as well. The un-targetable Chaplain for 3 seemed very strong as did the new Haven Angel. And having a potential one-sided board wipe in Forked Lightning... all around it looks good for Sandal.

coinmagic45
09-26-2013, 12:24 PM
people being increasingly more prepared to deal with SotS!

I keep hearing people say things like this but I don't know what they are referring to. I didn't see any cards, other than the spell stealer Academy creature, that would affect SotS. Can you post a name and rules text? I am at work and can't link to the image pages...

Thanks!
Mark

Hklooster
09-26-2013, 01:02 PM
There are none... plasma gets a card which can banish a non-hero/non-event card, however plasma already had sufficient options for spell removal.

El_Bokutal
09-26-2013, 01:29 PM
Agreed : During the first reveal on twich they stated that they wanted people relying on only one card (naming SotS) to get punished.
But the only card I spotted that works along that thread is the Academy spell stealer. Faction based and therefore not enough to be relevant unless Academy dominates the field in number of players.

The only threat to SotS I can forseen is the fact that most new heroes have acces to light and / or magic and anybody wanting to have a bit of success with his deck plays some mean of dispelling if he can.

Ramymanify
09-26-2013, 04:44 PM
Forgot to mention Sandalphone - he gained nothing that I can see, so between that and people being increasingly more prepared to deal with SotS I suspect he won't be as awesome as he once was. I actually think wombo-combo will been seen more in either Sanctuary or Acadamy via the new Akane.

I also forgot to mention OTK decks. The nerf to avalanche will kill the throne+inheritance+avalanche combo, probably marking the end of Yukiko lock. The existing mill decks (i.e. the ones that don't really mill at all but are mill decks because they play no other win condition) might die because people will be playing more anti-mill cards to counter Academy mill decks, meaning mill is no longer a free win-condition. It won't make them that terrible necessarily but it might be enough to mean it's better to just play an actual win condition, i.e. a non-mill OTK deck. Otherwise though I haven't seen anything that makes other OTK decks any worse, and a few things which might make them better. I suspect there'll be a fair few new ones if anything.

Finally, I also think there'll be an increase in random-Phrias now that you can buy the hero with wildcards (not to mention the Dark Assassins). Not to mention a couple of the new inferno creatures look like suggest even more aggressive options are available.

Looking forward to seeing how wrong I am!

Phrias won't be available in the altar or why put him as an achievement card in the first place, that was a question I asked before here in the forums, and I wanted to make sure the devs were NOT making that mistake because if they do bye bye game broken

seriously making an achievement card so hard to get then voila, you can get it from the altar = pretty stupid idea

silentbobus
09-26-2013, 06:31 PM
Agreed : During the first reveal on twich they stated that they wanted people relying on only one card (naming SotS) to get punished.
But the only card I spotted that works along that thread is the Academy spell stealer. Faction based and therefore not enough to be relevant unless Academy dominates the field in number of players.

The only threat to SotS I can forseen is the fact that most new heroes have acces to light and / or magic and anybody wanting to have a bit of success with his deck plays some mean of dispelling if he can.

With Cosmic Singularity it seems even easier to lean on unique epics. Nothing is ever truly gone.

El_Bokutal
09-26-2013, 08:06 PM
They could have change the text to something like :
"(...)Banish this card and every unique cards in graveyard"

I guess they thought tht a reset was fair enough : still have to draw the thing, still can discard it etc.
They might be right since means to thin out the deck aren't that many (revised tactics) but now you can also thin out your graveyard.

We'll see how it settles down. If someone comes up with a deck abusing this and still stable enough to be OP.

Irgy_
09-27-2013, 02:44 AM
I keep hearing people say things like this but I don't know what they are referring to. I didn't see any cards, other than the spell stealer Academy creature, that would affect SotS. Can you post a name and rules text? I am at work and can't link to the image pages...

Sorry, it probably wasn't clear but personally I was actually not referring to any specific card and in fact not even talking about post-expansion per-se. What I meant was that recently when I've played Sandalphone, I've increasingly found SotS (and similarly for other powerful ongoing uniques) dispelled by primal mages or even light mages with Divine Intervention, discarded or sometimes even extracted from the deck with Halls of Amnesia by inferno heros, and even bounced by Yukiko creature lock to clear the way for a Throne. People are becoming more aware of how good ongoing spells can be if left unchecked and metagaming their decks accordingly.

The commentators who said decks couldn't rely on it any more were just talking about Spellstealer Mage as far as I know, I expect it will usually be good when it's played but not have a big impact on the overall meta.


Phrias won't be available in the altar or why put him as an achievement card in the first place, that was a question I asked before here in the forums, and I wanted to make sure the devs were NOT making that mistake because if they do bye bye game broken

seriously making an achievement card so hard to get then voila, you can get it from the altar = pretty stupid idea

Well, looks like that's what they did. I'd based that on what was shown in some of the preview videos, you could see him. And it's confirmed now. The acheivement ones are premium, but plain ones are available at the altar.

Personally I think it's a good thing. The difficulty/cost to get Phrias was just plain stupid once Swiss tournaments stopped giving out premium Void Rising packs. Akane, well, she's not that hard to get anyway any more because of the altar. And the others are all available in decks already, so it's no big change. It does defeat the purpose of having the acheivements a little but I think it's worth the loss.

ArcaneAzmadi
09-29-2013, 12:51 AM
Phrias won't be available in the altar or why put him as an achievement card in the first place, that was a question I asked before here in the forums, and I wanted to make sure the devs were NOT making that mistake because if they do bye bye game broken

seriously making an achievement card so hard to get then voila, you can get it from the altar = pretty stupid idea

Pretty stupid ideas are the devs' stock in trade. See: the Banshee nerf.

I don't mind this at all, though, Phrias was ABSURDLY hard to get, far harder than he deserved to be.

svilleneuve
09-30-2013, 02:10 PM
You get the Premium version with the achivement and the normal version trhough the altar.

Ramymanify
10-01-2013, 09:46 AM
Pretty stupid ideas are the devs' stock in trade. See: the Banshee nerf.

I don't mind this at all, though, Phrias was ABSURDLY hard to get, far harder than he deserved to be.

yeah well I am still upset because of that they defeated the purpose of the achievement, I will still try to collect premium void rising for phrias and won't get him from altar
I seriously do not know the logic behind this but what the hell

and yes Banshee nerf is pretty stupid idea as heck too

Ramymanify
10-01-2013, 09:50 AM
Sorry, it probably wasn't clear but personally I was actually not referring to any specific card and in fact not even talking about post-expansion per-se. What I meant was that recently when I've played Sandalphone, I've increasingly found SotS (and similarly for other powerful ongoing uniques) dispelled by primal mages or even light mages with Divine Intervention, discarded or sometimes even extracted from the deck with Halls of Amnesia by inferno heros, and even bounced by Yukiko creature lock to clear the way for a Throne. People are becoming more aware of how good ongoing spells can be if left unchecked and metagaming their decks accordingly.

The commentators who said decks couldn't rely on it any more were just talking about Spellstealer Mage as far as I know, I expect it will usually be good when it's played but not have a big impact on the overall meta.



Well, looks like that's what they did. I'd based that on what was shown in some of the preview videos, you could see him. And it's confirmed now. The acheivement ones are premium, but plain ones are available at the altar.

Personally I think it's a good thing. The difficulty/cost to get Phrias was just plain stupid once Swiss tournaments stopped giving out premium Void Rising packs. Akane, well, she's not that hard to get anyway any more because of the altar. And the others are all available in decks already, so it's no big change. It does defeat the purpose of having the acheivements a little but I think it's worth the loss.

i buy premium void rising packs with gold what is wrong with that ? I don;t have to swiss it to get it, and they defeated the whole purpose mind you not just by a little
now why would anyone in their right minds even try and put some effort in the achievement ?
I can cope with that, but that fact that you as a Dev (for example) would do a core feature in your game that is basically a reward system and then counter it (more like negate it) with your own hands is beyond me

Gavr1l0
10-01-2013, 10:05 AM
i buy premium void rising packs with gold what is wrong with that ? I don;t have to swiss it to get it, and they defeated the whole purpose mind you not just by a little
now why would anyone in their right minds even try and put some effort in the achievement ?
I can cope with that, but that fact that you as a Dev (for example) would do a core feature in your game that is basically a reward system and then counter it (more like negate it) with your own hands is beyond me

Achievement is still rewarding, despite reward being mostly cosmetic.

ArcaneAzmadi
10-01-2013, 10:08 AM
i buy premium void rising packs with gold what is wrong with that ? I don;t have to swiss it to get it, and they defeated the whole purpose mind you not just by a little
now why would anyone in their right minds even try and put some effort in the achievement ?
I can cope with that, but that fact that you as a Dev (for example) would do a core feature in your game that is basically a reward system and then counter it (more like negate it) with your own hands is beyond me

You're talking as if it's a REASONABLE amount of effort. It's not. Not even remotely. Discounting the random 1-in-6 chance foils you can get from any pack (which come up a HELL of a lot less that one time in six) and any foils you get from the Infernal Pit, you'd need to buy 40 Premium Void Rising boosters to complete the achievement. At 18,500 gold each, that's 740,000 gold.

THAT is what is wrong with that.

Irgy_
10-02-2013, 01:38 AM
i buy premium void rising packs with gold what is wrong with that ? I don;t have to swiss it to get it, and they defeated the whole purpose mind you not just by a little
now why would anyone in their right minds even try and put some effort in the achievement ?

The funny thing is I'm still doing the acheivement now myself.

I was already about a third of the way there from picking up random VR foils in the pit, a few Swiss-premium packs from before HotV, and a few other random 1/6 foils. Basically I was working out the most efficient gold->wildcard conversion rate, and VR (equal with HotV) packs are it, and the premium packs are slightly better value for wildcards than the normal ones. Then I worked out that by getting the acheivement rather than buying Phrias with wildcards I saved 21 wildcards, which works out to effectively an extra wildcard in each pack.

So they haven't completely defeated the purpose of the acheivement at all, it's still better value under the right circumstances. The difference though is that now if a newer Inferno player without anywhere near 950,000 gold to spend on VR packs wants to try out Phrias they can.


I can cope with that, but that fact that you as a Dev (for example) would do a core feature in your game that is basically a reward system and then counter it (more like negate it) with your own hands is beyond me

I have a pet theory that when someone says "I can't understand how someone could do X", they're usually correct in a much more literal sense than they intended. I think I've found another example.

So there's a few reasons to do this.

One is simply changing your mind. I respect people more if they can do something one way then later decide to do it a different way. Probably more than people who just happened to get it right the first time.

Another is temporary scarcity. When they release a new set, it can only be bought for seals and costs more than other sets. Later, they make it cheaper. The end result is that there's always something that people want, don't have, and is hard to get. However, importantly, at the same time newer players don't have quite as much trouble catching up with the backlog of older sets as they would if all the expansions still cost a lot. Ubisoft don't want an ever-growing pool of expensive items, they want an ever-changing pool of expensive items. Phrias now follows that same pattern. When he was first released, he was hard to get and something to work for. Now there's new achievements they want players to focus on so it's time to make the old ones a little easier.

And finally, the end result is the acheivement+alternative approach, which is good for making money. Patient people can put in the effort and get the achievement for maximum efficiency (as I describe above). Less patient people can get what they want sooner by spending resources instead. Everyone's happy, especially Ubisoft if you consider that spending wildcards will often amount to spending $. It's well aligned with the way the Freemium economy works.

Of course there was an alternative before in theory, by like you say spending gold on premium packs. The difference though is it was badly priced. Most of the other acheivement heros could be picked up for 125,000 or 175,000 gold by buying their decks, whereas for Phrias you had to spend between 285,000 and 950,000 to get him (depending on how many normal VR packs you were intending to buy anyway). In real $ that's somewhere between $28 and $95 compared to $12.50 or $17.50 if you want to just spend $ to get him. Now you can spend $15 for 1500 seals, buy a FW box, and get 37 wildcards, making all of the acheivement heros a more reasonable price.


You're talking as if it's a REASONABLE amount of effort. It's not. Not even remotely. Discounting the random 1-in-6 chance foils you can get from any pack (which come up a HELL of a lot less that one time in six) and any foils you get from the Infernal Pit, you'd need to buy 40 Premium Void Rising boosters to complete the achievement. At 18,500 gold each, that's 740,000 gold.

THAT is what is wrong with that.

Much maths fail there (well not the maths itself so much as the surroundings). Firstly, the premium packs cost 25,000 gold, it's the plain packs that are 18,500. The upshot is:
* Accounting for the extra 1/6 (because why not, it's not that hard really) you need to buy about 38 premium VR packs.
* You're spending 38x(25,000 - 18,500) = 285,000 extra to get Phrias, if you assume you were going to buy normal VR packs anyway.
* But you still need to have access to 950,000 total gold in the process.
* It's less if you pick up foils in the pit, which also gives you more gold to spend. But those numbers are still the right ballpark.

I don't disagree with your conclusion mind you it just annoys me when people get the facts wrong, especially when they're on my side of the argument (not that I tend to have a "side" per-se if I can help it).

sir_z
10-02-2013, 08:27 AM
Let's also not forget that premium VR packs each come with a wildcard (and a chance at a second) which is a bit more added value for all that extra gold.

silentbobus
10-02-2013, 02:49 PM
Let's also not forget that premium VR packs each come with a wildcard (and a chance at a second) which is a bit more added value for all that extra gold.

I have no trouble buying Premium VR packs because they are the only thing I can get value out of for gold. I've already got enough HoV that with the Altar of Wishes purchases I am only missing 2 Heroes from the Complete Set. I already have the complete base set. Which means VR is the only gold set left.

Ramymanify
10-03-2013, 01:53 PM
Dear sir, achievements are meant to be (challenging) and if we had any trouble coping with them we should have asked the devs to delete the achievement section in the first place, if one achievement should be foiled (regardless of how difficult it is) then all achievements should be erased as well

I see no point in complaining about how hard an achievement can be when the reward should be more than satisfying
might as well give us the boxes and pack sets from the altar for what it's worth

Ramymanify
10-03-2013, 02:14 PM
The funny thing is I'm still doing the acheivement now myself.

I was already about a third of the way there from picking up random VR foils in the pit, a few Swiss-premium packs from before HotV, and a few other random 1/6 foils. Basically I was working out the most efficient gold->wildcard conversion rate, and VR (equal with HotV) packs are it, and the premium packs are slightly better value for wildcards than the normal ones. Then I worked out that by getting the acheivement rather than buying Phrias with wildcards I saved 21 wildcards, which works out to effectively an extra wildcard in each pack.

So they haven't completely defeated the purpose of the acheivement at all, it's still better value under the right circumstances. The difference though is that now if a newer Inferno player without anywhere near 950,000 gold to spend on VR packs wants to try out Phrias they can.



I have a pet theory that when someone says "I can't understand how someone could do X", they're usually correct in a much more literal sense than they intended. I think I've found another example.

So there's a few reasons to do this.

One is simply changing your mind. I respect people more if they can do something one way then later decide to do it a different way. Probably more than people who just happened to get it right the first time.

Another is temporary scarcity. When they release a new set, it can only be bought for seals and costs more than other sets. Later, they make it cheaper. The end result is that there's always something that people want, don't have, and is hard to get. However, importantly, at the same time newer players don't have quite as much trouble catching up with the backlog of older sets as they would if all the expansions still cost a lot. Ubisoft don't want an ever-growing pool of expensive items, they want an ever-changing pool of expensive items. Phrias now follows that same pattern. When he was first released, he was hard to get and something to work for. Now there's new achievements they want players to focus on so it's time to make the old ones a little easier.

And finally, the end result is the acheivement+alternative approach, which is good for making money. Patient people can put in the effort and get the achievement for maximum efficiency (as I describe above). Less patient people can get what they want sooner by spending resources instead. Everyone's happy, especially Ubisoft if you consider that spending wildcards will often amount to spending $. It's well aligned with the way the Freemium economy works.

Of course there was an alternative before in theory, by like you say spending gold on premium packs. The difference though is it was badly priced. Most of the other acheivement heros could be picked up for 125,000 or 175,000 gold by buying their decks, whereas for Phrias you had to spend between 285,000 and 950,000 to get him (depending on how many normal VR packs you were intending to buy anyway). In real $ that's somewhere between $28 and $95 compared to $12.50 or $17.50 if you want to just spend $ to get him. Now you can spend $15 for 1500 seals, buy a FW box, and get 37 wildcards, making all of the acheivement heros a more reasonable price.



Much maths fail there (well not the maths itself so much as the surroundings). Firstly, the premium packs cost 25,000 gold, it's the plain packs that are 18,500. The upshot is:
* Accounting for the extra 1/6 (because why not, it's not that hard really) you need to buy about 38 premium VR packs.
* You're spending 38x(25,000 - 18,500) = 285,000 extra to get Phrias, if you assume you were going to buy normal VR packs anyway.
* But you still need to have access to 950,000 total gold in the process.
* It's less if you pick up foils in the pit, which also gives you more gold to spend. But those numbers are still the right ballpark.

I don't disagree with your conclusion mind you it just annoys me when people get the facts wrong, especially when they're on my side of the argument (not that I tend to have a "side" per-se if I can help it).

Thank you for clarifying but with all due respect I do not change my mind simply because people would grant me respect in return, I do change my mind however, when I know I've been wrong about something, it's just the way I am.

That said, I think you're right, it still displeases me, for I feel the discrepancy wrought upon the collective congregation of players by this (alternative approach)
but in a way it works like prozac, you can either suck it up and be more achievement-oriented and keep buying those packs (which i still think is pretty effin' doable, since I started in the last couple of weeks and got about 70 premium cards in it) or, you can be a prozac-dependent individual and work your way through buying and getting wild cards for your top dollar
and of-course either way the government is happy, because on both ends they're getting productivity through effort or through money

Duly noted and thank you

and by the way I do happen to have a theory as well, (people who write long replies often tend to confuse you with a multiple-faceted argument, sometimes they are correct, many times they just pretend to be smart)

thank you again and good day

ArcaneAzmadi
10-05-2013, 01:16 AM
GETTING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC OF THE THREAD, I personally think that, once people have all the subtleties down pat and have had a chance to find the most exploitative and OP combinations, Academy is going to be the strongest faction, largely because they break most of the unwritten rules about faction theming. They're the only faction with no forbidden spell schools, having heroes with access to every single school. Their Champion is the only 2/1/0 hero with 2 schools, rather than 2/0/1 with 1 school. They're the only faction that can plausibly play a strong non-weenie creature deck without needing tons of might thanks to their surfeit of ridiculously low might-requirement creatures (usually with a high magic requirement instead), meaning they may have the most viable Invoker in the game. They have the most flexible spell combinations in the game, including the previously forbidden fire/water.

Additionally, they have total exclusivity over the new abilities Evade, Ranged Reflect and Shockwave. Their faction theme is "milling" and unlike other factions they get far more cards to support their theme to make it actually potentially VIABLE. And several of their cards were simply not balanced at all such as Shantiri Titan and Nur, Spellweaver. Once people have had time to try out eveything, I think Academy could well end up being almost unbeatable.

Shambell
10-14-2013, 12:57 PM
Just this point:


Their Champion is the only 2/1/0 hero with 2 schools, rather than 2/0/1 with 1 school.

Kieran is 2/1/0 with 2 schools...

Banehollow89
10-14-2013, 02:44 PM
Just this point:



Kieran is 2/1/0 with 2 schools...

Kieran isn't a Champion, he is special, Achievement hero. Same as Ariana isn't an Invoker, even though she has 3 spells schools and same stats.

ArcaneAzmadi
10-16-2013, 02:39 AM
Kieran isn't a Champion, he is special, Achievement hero. Same as Ariana isn't an Invoker, even though she has 3 spells schools and same stats.

Actually, Ariana DOESN'T have the same stats- that's the reason she's so OP. She's 1/2/0, dumping the useless point of Destiny for a starting point of Might that completely negates the main drawback of the Invokers, while still getting their combination of awesome spell schools (best combination in the game hands down) and a head-start on the magic. She's also the ONLY hero with that stat line.

Psychobabble.au
10-16-2013, 04:30 AM
GETTING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC OF THE THREAD, I personally think that, once people have all the subtleties down pat and have had a chance to find the most exploitative and OP combinations, Academy is going to be the strongest faction, largely because they break most of the unwritten rules about faction theming. They're the only faction with no forbidden spell schools, having heroes with access to every single school. Their Champion is the only 2/1/0 hero with 2 schools, rather than 2/0/1 with 1 school. They're the only faction that can plausibly play a strong non-weenie creature deck without needing tons of might thanks to their surfeit of ridiculously low might-requirement creatures (usually with a high magic requirement instead), meaning they may have the most viable Invoker in the game. They have the most flexible spell combinations in the game, including the previously forbidden fire/water.

Additionally, they have total exclusivity over the new abilities Evade, Ranged Reflect and Shockwave. Their faction theme is "milling" and unlike other factions they get far more cards to support their theme to make it actually potentially VIABLE. And several of their cards were simply not balanced at all such as Shantiri Titan and Nur, Spellweaver. Once people have had time to try out eveything, I think Academy could well end up being almost unbeatable.

You've listed the unique features about academy, but just because something's different doesn't mean it's going to be broken. My suspicion is that their card pool from just one set is going to mean that they're a bit too far behind the other factions to compete just yet. I think it's taken sanctuary until this expansion to have sufficient creature options to be a top tier contender, I'm thinking it'll be the same here but we'll see.

right now the meta feels very open to me, although it's certainly trending in a relentlessly agressive direction no matter what faction you're playing. That means that academy and necro (along with non-WC haven) seem a bit on the weak side, as they're the least inherently agressive. The pendulum is likely to swing again though.

Banehollow89
10-16-2013, 09:12 AM
Actually, Ariana DOESN'T have the same stats- that's the reason she's so OP. She's 1/2/0, dumping the useless point of Destiny for a starting point of Might that completely negates the main drawback of the Invokers, while still getting their combination of awesome spell schools (best combination in the game hands down) and a head-start on the magic. She's also the ONLY hero with that stat line.

Yeah, my mistake, didn't want to say stats, but same HP.

Shambell
10-16-2013, 09:21 AM
Kieran isn't a Champion, he is special, Achievement hero.

Yes, he's an reward hero (build around Champion stats)... But my remark is still valid, he was the first stated 2/1/0 and so Myranda is not the only hero stated like this.


She's also the ONLY hero with that stat line.

1/2/0 ?
Well, Akane Void for example...
Still, more HP and one less school.:)

ArcaneAzmadi
10-16-2013, 03:22 PM
Yes, he's an reward hero (build around Champion stats)... But my remark is still valid, he was the first stated 2/1/0 and so Myranda is not the only hero stated like this.
That is true. The IMPLICATION of my original statement was that she was the only one of the CHAMPIONS to break the mold of 2/0/1 1-school design, but that might not have come through properly.



1/2/0 ?
Well, Akane Void for example...
Still, more HP and one less school.:)

True, I forgot her. Among achievement heroes, she's easy to overlook- she's one of the hardest to get while being underpowered and never used by anyone at the same time.

AmineM2
10-16-2013, 08:41 PM
Actually, Ariana DOESN'T have the same stats- that's the reason she's so OP. She's 1/2/0, dumping the useless point of Destiny for a starting point of Might that completely negates the main drawback of the Invokers, while still getting their combination of awesome spell schools (best combination in the game hands down) and a head-start on the magic. She's also the ONLY hero with that stat line.

Ariana is OP, her stats are great, magic schools awesome, Necro creatures were (are?) the best in the game... yet she couldn't (and cant) get to t1 on regular basis.

Why?

Psychobabble.au
10-16-2013, 11:16 PM
Ariana is OP, her stats are great, magic schools awesome, Necro creatures were (are?) the best in the game... yet she couldn't (and cant) get to t1 on regular basis.

Why?

because arcane has difficulty with the concept of dynamic balance and can't realise that all of the OP/broken dark and earth magic spells he complains about aren't actually that good most of the time, because spell control is basically the worst type of archetype in this game.