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El_Bokutal
09-24-2013, 06:02 PM
Good thing with this expension is that nobody will rant over OP necro cards.

The hero actually sucks : Late game you get rid of T2 creatures and as it's worded, if opponent hasn't got some, you'll have to get rid of yours. :)
Creatures are mainly laughable : This 0-0-7that kills itself in like 4 turns and rises to a 3-3-1 is a joke. :)

As for the special fortune : pay 5 to get 1 creature, then 2 etc. it's kinda the worst recursive fortune we have.
When you compare it to the other faction's 1+nb of cards fortune it seems like the worst of them.


Some cards are playable and will get some action but I've got the feeling necro decks won't be changing a lot after 26th september and hopefully we'll see less "nerf necro" brainless threads.

Jarrman
09-24-2013, 06:39 PM
Well if you call a fresh supply of utterly useless cards as a saving grace than.. you are right, tis saved.

Banehollow89
09-24-2013, 06:44 PM
I am quite disappointed with what Necro and Inferno got. Other factions look really fun and got amazing cards.

Inferno got 2 mediocre cards and one strong, with all 3 of them having drawbacks that are pretty big. Jester Imp that people were hyping has 2 HP and dies to almost any AoE/Single Target removal.

The only card that I really like is Rotting Mummy.

But to be honest, I am not disappointed at the lack of good new cards, but on top of that that they have introduced like 10 ways to banish cards from your graveyard or to disable you from playing them...

ulpsz
09-24-2013, 06:54 PM
more like necro is dead...

cpttg
09-24-2013, 07:00 PM
more like just wait till the expansion comes out and you will find out what works and what not..

Penas2011
09-24-2013, 07:12 PM
Im really disappointed about Inferno too... the early creatures suck (not like haven/stronghold or sanctuary...)

El_Bokutal
09-24-2013, 07:19 PM
Let's review the necro decks I've used so far.

> Nergal Slowpoke
Got a increased cost on wasteland and more counters to ongoing spells.
I won't cry for that, but it's a (small ?) nerf.

> Ariana control
Mostly untouched, save for the Academy Hero who can steal spells from her graveyard and some counters to ongoing spells.
Gets a couple of new usable spells but nothing that'll change the archetype I think.

> Ariana Mill
It depends on how much milling is popular and how much couners to milling are popular.
Still, all the nerfs listed for Nergal slowpoke stand.

> Nergal MoN
Gets a couple of usable creatures and its ongoing spells become less reliable.
Depending on meta it might get better or worse but in itself it's mostly untouched.

> Fleshbane necromancer
Totally screwed, unless I miss my guess. :)
Banshee magic requirement is bad and anti-recursion cards are worse.

> Seria cold fate
No new creature, no new spell, no new fortune.
And SotS is less reliable.
Just like Nergal and Ariana, it will mainly depend on meta.

> Adar Malik
Plenty of counters available.
If they are used too often, he is screwed too.

And there's the new hero who falls right behind mother Namtaru in my opinion but, who knows, it might be broken in the new meta.

Well, I wouldn't say necro is dead but we'll see less necro players for sure.
My firstshot will be at achievements and when the dust settles and meta becomes more stable, I'll see if I can come up with a nice necro deck to prove myself wrong. :P

AbisalAeneas
09-24-2013, 09:31 PM
Sorry, where is the necro cards spoil?

Scorp1988
09-24-2013, 11:30 PM
Necro has gotten a grand total of one good card in this expansion ( and tbh i'm not sure if the deck that wants it is gonna still exist). Not much else to say really, completely unplayable to mediocre is how to other cards are.

Ps. just incase people were wondering the one fairly obvious "good" card is "death is not the end".

KrobKrob
09-25-2013, 12:41 AM
I wonder if the devs intentionally gave necro a grand total of one new playable card, or they simply did not realize the new necro cards are absurdly bad. Either option bodes poorly for this game.

I like this game and hope I'm wrong about this.

Atisdai
09-25-2013, 12:57 AM
Well, to be fair, Necro was pretty strong so far, so I think it's understandable that they want to give the faction less powerful cards.

That said, what we got looks pretty bad to mediocre.

Silham, Spirit Severer; (hero)
To use her ability you need 5 might and 4 Destiny, and then it only works on creatures with 2 or less resource costs.
That are incredibly steep demands for seriously bad pay off.
At the point when you are 5/1/4, your opponent will pull out his 3 and 4 resources cards.
I really don't see it much useful.

Sahaar Mummy, (uncommon)
1/0/3
He cannot even hit back, his damage is terrible and he'll only return to your hand as long as you have 5 or less cards in your graveyard.
He costs 2 resources.
I really don't know why I'd use this card, outside of using a gimmick mummy deck (which, admittedly, may be fun, but useless)
I think there are cards from the beginner deck I'd use over this. Hangman tree does what this card is supposed to, but better, imho.
Nearly twice the HP, and only being deployed once. Deploying this card twice, to get to the same amount of HP costs you double the resources.

Rotting Mummy (rare)
1/0/4
Again with no retaliation and low damage.
Now, the effect isn't so bad, except the mummy needs to die on your supply phase to put it into motion.
Which means the mummy needs to either survive till it dies on its own, or you must squander some spell to kill it within your own phase, so the effect jumps on the enemy.
I guess it can be used as a better version of poison cloud, and if nothing else, it forces your opponent to use abilities/spells/attacks to destroy the creature.
On the other hand it costs just 2 resources, so it may be highly situational, but could work.

Rotting Zombie (common)
1/2/5
This guy is pretty much Hellfire Imp, but better, or Hellfire Bloater, but worse. (which both cost 2 resource, compared to Rotting Zombies 4 resource).
I guess it can be combo'ed with Putrid Zombie (comes later), except, both are melee, so...the one interaction that would have been neat...doesn't exist.
I guess he can be used as a blocker, but for that he costs too much, imho.
At 3 resources I would consider him.

Putrid Ghoul (uncommon)
0/0/7
So, every round he is in play, he poisons himself.
And for every poison counter on him, he gains 1 damage.
He also costs 4 resources.
So, round 1 he is 1/0/7
Round two 2/0/6
Round three 3/0/3
Round four he is dead.
...Why would I use this card over so many better cards that cost the same?

Al-Betyl Ghoul (common)
3/3/8
Resource cost 5
We're really not starved for blockers, not to mention Necro faction seems to thrive on using creatures with secondary abilities, so, since he is common, I guess he's an alternative for people who want to go 5 in might on Necro, but having trouble getting the more powerful, but also costly, rare level big guys.

Damnran, the tainted (epic)
3/3/7
Resource cost 6
Now, I got to say, this one guy looks hugely intriguing.
I feel you really need to build a poison deck around him, because that will be where he shines.
At entering the battlefield, a friendly champion gains infect 1 (a bit weak, but ok), Same if he attacks.
Plus, he has infect 2, as well as doing 1 damage per poison counter on a creature, at the opponents supply phase.
Which means if you put some nice poison onto the enemy, and pull this guy in as second to last or last card during your phase, you can really do some nice damage.
He's pretty loaded with abilities, which I guess explains his costs.
I want him, just because.

Fortunes:
Eternal battlefield; (common)
I guess this is a means to counter the graveyard clearing abilities that come with this patch.
It prevents a creature, when dying, from going to the graveyard, and instead is shuffled back into your deck.
Not only that, but after the round is over, this card, too, returns to your hand. Could be strong.

Death is not the End (uncommon)
For 3 resources you can put something useless (to the current situation), on top of your opponents hand, while putting something useful on yours.
Nifty.

A life for a life (rare)
Costs 4 resources.
I don't know. I feel if I have a big enough monster out there that it is high enough level that I could use it to kill another creature of my opponent of the same level, then there are other ways to achieve that -without- losing a big blocker in the process.
Even worse, I'd not clock my deck with 4 cards that would be highly situational.
I guess it works as Soulreaver for creature decks.

Harvesting the dead (uncommon).
You need a lot of these cards for making it worthwhile, and it only works on non-uniques.
I guess there could be means to use it, but there are alternatives that work better, imho.
Especially for 5 resources.

Btw, here are the necro cards
http://www.twitch.tv/duelofchampions/b/464654781

AscendoO
09-25-2013, 02:14 AM
Adar Malik was certainly annoying, but seriously? All the new cards are just bad apart from death is not the end especially compared to what other factions got. I understand that necro shouldnt get any more super powerfull cards like the decay spitter or the soul consuming lich, but cards like rotten mummy(rare card..) or putrid ghoul just make laugh, not to mention the hero and his really really special ability...

El_Bokutal
09-25-2013, 09:52 AM
Our unique isn't worth beeing epic / unique.

What he does for 6 is undone by haven unique for 4. :D
By the way, he doesn't do extra dammage to poisonned creatures, this is just the "poison counter" standart text.

No need to compare to other faction's cards though, by themselves they are crappy : they gave necro a bunch of junk cards (save 1 fortune) with a poison flavour to stick to the theme while beeing abso****inglutely useless.
For next expension : could you please favour us with cards that can actually be used? Even if they don't fit with archetypical necro decks and don't deal with poison or graveyard?

Edit :
Comparison is quite interesting, here is an sample.
Crusader commander :
5 gold 5 might
4-5-8 stats

Al-Beryl Ghoul :
5 gold 5 might
3-3-8 stats

Let's take this as a joke and forget this expension for necro.

Gavr1l0
09-25-2013, 10:47 AM
Yeah, looks like they have decided to play it safe, Still, necro wasn't exactly lacking in creature department.

Atisdai
09-25-2013, 11:03 AM
Our unique isn't worth beeing epic / unique.
By the way, he doesn't do extra dammage to poisonned creatures, this is just the "poison counter" standart text.


Oh yeah, you're right.
Out of some reason I read that as something awesome instead of the sad reality.
Ah well.
At least I don't really need any cards from this expansion and can focus on getting the ones I'm missing from the last ones.

Jarrman
09-25-2013, 11:14 AM
I still don't get it. If you don't want to make necros even more stronger, it's kinda fine, but it doesn't mean that you should create absurdly awful cards. Like. What's the point of adding absolutely useless, unplayable, underpowered creatures? What for? All the time and efforts involved in creating neat arts have just wasted, because noone is going look at them more than once or twice. Other factions recieved good stuff, which means more strategies, more diversity, more fun, while necroes have to play the same way, though with new troubling issues - how to deal with that anti-necro strats.

Harmbringer
09-25-2013, 11:40 AM
more like necro is dead...

You got the point in fact they are UNdead!

PengthePenguin
09-25-2013, 11:41 AM
Not only were necro creatures bad, there aren't any new counterplay mechanisms against stall, for necro. No spells, no events, no fortunes. And the new dark/earth/water spells won't really help necro at all, except that 5-cost PM-TP - combination spell.

Harmbringer
09-25-2013, 11:42 AM
But honestly Necro had too much utility and pretty good creatures.
Its better to balance things this way than "nerfing everything to the ground, baby!"

Revalon
09-25-2013, 11:48 AM
I guess the necro cards are only there to decrease the chances for other factions to get good cards out of the packs http://www.pic4ever.com/images/ugly004.gif

Banehollow89
09-25-2013, 11:51 AM
But honestly Necro had too much utility and pretty good creatures.
Its better to balance things this way than "nerfing everything to the ground, baby!"

Problem is, they did nerf everything to the ground... They nerfed Banshee, they nerfed recursion in every way with adding thousand of cards that reshuffles your graveyard into your library, others that banish your cards from the graveyard or just prevent you from targeting them. And to compensate, they added creatures that are worse than old creatures in every possible way. They shouldn't have done both things at once, if they added a lot of counters, add solid cards, otherwise, if you add bad cards, don't add a lot of counters etc.

I would really like to see what will top players come up with for new Necro decks.

NagiShaman
09-25-2013, 12:10 PM
Well, to be fair, Necro was pretty strong so far, so I think it's understandable that they want to give the faction less powerful cards.

That said, what we got looks pretty bad to mediocre.

Silham, Spirit Severer; (hero)
To use her ability you need 5 might and 4 Destiny, and then it only works on creatures with 2 or less resource costs.
That are incredibly steep demands for seriously bad pay off.
At the point when you are 5/1/4, your opponent will pull out his 3 and 4 resources cards.
I really don't see it much useful.

Sahaar Mummy, (uncommon)
1/0/3
He cannot even hit back, his damage is terrible and he'll only return to your hand as long as you have 5 or less cards in your graveyard.
He costs 2 resources.
I really don't know why I'd use this card, outside of using a gimmick mummy deck (which, admittedly, may be fun, but useless)
I think there are cards from the beginner deck I'd use over this. Hangman tree does what this card is supposed to, but better, imho.
Nearly twice the HP, and only being deployed once. Deploying this card twice, to get to the same amount of HP costs you double the resources.

Rotting Mummy (rare)
1/0/4
Again with no retaliation and low damage.
Now, the effect isn't so bad, except the mummy needs to die on your supply phase to put it into motion.
Which means the mummy needs to either survive till it dies on its own, or you must squander some spell to kill it within your own phase, so the effect jumps on the enemy.
I guess it can be used as a better version of poison cloud, and if nothing else, it forces your opponent to use abilities/spells/attacks to destroy the creature.
On the other hand it costs just 2 resources, so it may be highly situational, but could work.

Rotting Zombie (common)
1/2/5
This guy is pretty much Hellfire Imp, but better, or Hellfire Bloater, but worse. (which both cost 2 resource, compared to Rotting Zombies 4 resource).
I guess it can be combo'ed with Putrid Zombie (comes later), except, both are melee, so...the one interaction that would have been neat...doesn't exist.
I guess he can be used as a blocker, but for that he costs too much, imho.
At 3 resources I would consider him.

Putrid Ghoul (uncommon)
0/0/7
So, every round he is in play, he poisons himself.
And for every poison counter on him, he gains 1 damage.
He also costs 4 resources.
So, round 1 he is 1/0/7
Round two 2/0/6
Round three 3/0/3
Round four he is dead.
...Why would I use this card over so many better cards that cost the same?

Al-Betyl Ghoul (common)
3/3/8
Resource cost 5
We're really not starved for blockers, not to mention Necro faction seems to thrive on using creatures with secondary abilities, so, since he is common, I guess he's an alternative for people who want to go 5 in might on Necro, but having trouble getting the more powerful, but also costly, rare level big guys.

Damnran, the tainted (epic)
3/3/7
Resource cost 6
Now, I got to say, this one guy looks hugely intriguing.
I feel you really need to build a poison deck around him, because that will be where he shines.
At entering the battlefield, a friendly champion gains infect 1 (a bit weak, but ok), Same if he attacks.
Plus, he has infect 2, as well as doing 1 damage per poison counter on a creature, at the opponents supply phase.
Which means if you put some nice poison onto the enemy, and pull this guy in as second to last or last card during your phase, you can really do some nice damage.
He's pretty loaded with abilities, which I guess explains his costs.
I want him, just because.

Fortunes:
Eternal battlefield; (common)
I guess this is a means to counter the graveyard clearing abilities that come with this patch.
It prevents a creature, when dying, from going to the graveyard, and instead is shuffled back into your deck.
Not only that, but after the round is over, this card, too, returns to your hand. Could be strong.

Death is not the End (uncommon)
For 3 resources you can put something useless (to the current situation), on top of your opponents hand, while putting something useful on yours.
Nifty.

A life for a life (rare)
Costs 4 resources.
I don't know. I feel if I have a big enough monster out there that it is high enough level that I could use it to kill another creature of my opponent of the same level, then there are other ways to achieve that -without- losing a big blocker in the process.
Even worse, I'd not clock my deck with 4 cards that would be highly situational.
I guess it works as Soulreaver for creature decks.

Harvesting the dead (uncommon).
You need a lot of these cards for making it worthwhile, and it only works on non-uniques.
I guess there could be means to use it, but there are alternatives that work better, imho.
Especially for 5 resources.

Btw, here are the necro cards
http://www.twitch.tv/duelofchampions/b/464654781

Your review is very good, and i was reading it with pleasure, pls do it for all cards from new expansion if you have spare time to make it, :D

LQDBrunt
09-25-2013, 12:22 PM
Was hoping to see DoC version of Mortivore in this expansion, but sadly we got none :(
With all the graveyard hate and milling it would be so interesting.

El_Bokutal
09-25-2013, 12:38 PM
That could have been a good Unique / epic card.

Freyjan
09-25-2013, 04:17 PM
I still don't get it. If you don't want to make necros even more stronger, it's kinda fine, but it doesn't mean that you should create absurdly awful cards. Like. What's the point of adding absolutely useless, unplayable, underpowered creatures? What for? All the time and efforts involved in creating neat arts have just wasted, because noone is going look at them more than once or twice. Other factions recieved good stuff, which means more strategies, more diversity, more fun, while necroes have to play the same way, though with new troubling issues - how to deal with that anti-necro strats.

That's my main gripe, really.

I understand if you don't want to give necro the same level of broken new cards that a lot of other factions got, but at least make them playable in certain situations. As someone else posted, Death is not the End is the only playable necro card in this expansion. I suppose it'll be good for me in a way, since I know I'll be focusing my seals on past sets, getting maybe 1 box of the new set just to try and grab some of the useful commons and uncommons along with hopefully a good spell or two.

On the bright side, with the exception of Academy being super annoying in terms of all the spell/magic resist and high HP they pack, the necro deck I've been playing since I started a few weeks ago will remain relatively unaffected. I haven't been using Atropos, Banshees, Tamed Spirits, Wild Spirits, or really any other card that's seeing some direct nerf or super targeted hate and I've still managed to hit 1300+ elo. The only thing that'll probably be less useful to me is Shantiri Ruins, just due to all the graveyard hate that'll be happening I'm sure.

It'll be interesting to see how many of the GY banishment fortune and event cards get played the first few weeks. Also I'm really hoping to see less Dhamiria stall since it's pretty much the bane of my existence.

PengthePenguin
09-25-2013, 05:48 PM
Also I'm really hoping to see less Dhamiria stall since it's pretty much the bane of my existence.

I was looking forward to this as well. Academy seemed like a faction that counters effectively Slowpokes with all the milling and spell-manipulation (Spellstealer Magi, etc), but is there anything in the new set that would really hurt Slowpokes? Excluding the nerfing of Wasteland, I don't really see that many counters around.

Gavr1l0
09-25-2013, 06:03 PM
Well, there're several new ways to deploy creature circumventing wasteland (gates to sheogh, volunteers, ink warrior), new way to punch through altar of shadows (focused mind), universal removal in primal (void ripple), and that new event could be rather inconvenient to nergal's slowpoke. Alas, there's nothing to counter throne of renewal.

El_Bokutal
09-25-2013, 06:04 PM
You shall watch the reveal's replay on youtube.
When Simon is talking about the necro cards he looks so unconvinced about them I almost had pity. :)

They know they did crap for necro and so they did it on purpose. Hopefully Aza kept telling them its awesome and never challenged any card or he would have been hard pressed to explain some of them.
It could have been fun :

Q : "Crusader commander" has 3 more stats than this Ghoul for the exact same price and rarity. Is it a typo?
A: Ehheeehhh

Q : "Rotting zombie" does the same thing as a hellfire bloater, except conditionnal, more expensive and slower. What is it's compared advantage for this increased cost?
A : Well....

Q : "Putrid Ghoul" has the same cost and rarity as a Tainted orc but with a starting -4 attack -3 retaliation and will kill itself long before it closes the gap. Isn't that very very low in cost efficiency?
A : Huhhhh....

And so on.... :p
It would have been really fun.

Only valid answer I can imagine : "We didn't want necro players to have new cards but had some spare visuals and though they wouldn't notice how useless those cards are."

Hantziie
09-25-2013, 06:11 PM
I'm really glad necro got this nerfs. I think this expansion will make the game more balanced between factions.

Freyjan
09-25-2013, 06:29 PM
They know they did crap for necro and so they did it on purpose.
.
.
.
Only valid answer I can imagine : "We didn't want necro players to have new cards but had some spare visuals and though they wouldn't notice how useless those cards are."

This is actually pretty accurate. Even during the stream people were commenting how bad the necro cards were, and one of the devs/mods (I forget which) made a comment to the effect of "Well, we didn't promise strong cards for everyone. We promised more balance." Still sad when balance means a certain faction getting only one usable card, but it is what it is I suppose :) I'll keep playing it but at least now I'll have an easier way of hopefully filling out a few other decks I've been toying around with for a bit of diversity here and there.

Gavr1l0
09-25-2013, 06:37 PM
No love for Sahaar mummy, eh?

silentbobus
09-25-2013, 06:51 PM
I'm really glad necro got this nerfs. I think this expansion will make the game more balanced between factions.

I would have been happier to see them balance more existing Necro cards. If the entire set is useless for Necro it means they will just play the same cards they always have.

El_Bokutal
09-25-2013, 06:55 PM
I'm really glad necro got this nerfs. I think this expansion will make the game more balanced between factions.

We'll see how balanced it is after a while but I've got kind of a doubt. :)

The key point for my personnal griefs is not that every other faction got better cards (that can be called balancing or at least attempt at) but that our cards are plain useless pieces of junk that won't bring anything to any decks : no power increase (fair enough) and no new mecanics or new ideas for decks. They couldn't even improve the beginner's deck you got for free. :)
Typically, Void Rising creatures didn't improve necro's deck (or marginaly so) but at least were playable and brought something new to the game. This is exactly what I expected from FW and didn't get.

Like someone said, they just wasted their visuals and I do think they should be ashamed of what they produced for necro in FW.