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Psychobabble.au
09-24-2013, 01:40 PM
thread moved here (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/797250-Forgotten-Wars-full-set-review) because I stupidly forgot to reserve space here.

M0rw47h
09-24-2013, 01:50 PM
You changed scale to 1-3, or in your opinion all Academy heroes are just bad?

Gavr1l0
09-24-2013, 02:06 PM
Just checked reveal video on youtube again and Ammar has earth+water there.

MamuzShah
09-24-2013, 02:12 PM
Images :
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2013/38/1379772136-academie-cards.jpg

Psychobabble.au
09-24-2013, 02:24 PM
You changed scale to 1-3, or in your opinion all Academy heroes are just bad?

Thanks for pointing out that I didn't put in a rating scale. It's the same as last time, and I've updated the examples a little bit. it's hard to give heroes a really high score without seeing them in action, although i've now bumped Ammar up to a 3.5. And a 3 is not bad by any means, most heroes in the game would score less than a 3 on my rating scale, it would require an exceptionally strong or very versatile hero (Nergal, Ariana, Kelthor and Garant come to mind) to justify more than a 3 imo. Looking over my last review, I was way too high on Alia (probably a 2.5), too low on Dhamira because i couldn't get my head around the idea of inferno control, it had always been a rush deck before them (4 is probably correct for her), slightly too low on Adar-Malik (3.5), a tad too high on Zardoc (3) and basically right on Noburu. So rating heroes in the dark is hard :).


Just checked reveal video on youtube again and Ammar has earth+water there.

Oops, thanks for the pickup. That's actually led me to grade him a half point higher - that seems like it could be really strong.


Images :
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2013/38/1379772136-academie-cards.jpg

Thanks for the link, unfortunately that's no good for my purposes, I would need individual card images.

Banehollow89
09-24-2013, 02:56 PM
Haakem has Death and Earth, not Primal and Earth btw.

Elementalist.
09-24-2013, 02:58 PM
Those ratings could change a lot with the new spells, looking forward to today's reveal :)

LQDBrunt
09-24-2013, 03:05 PM
Hello Psychobabble, it's always interesting to read your reviews both now and couple of weeks after the expansion is already out.
Posts like these inspire people to theory-craft and create hype and excitement for the expansion, so thank you for it.

There is one general bit that i don't agree with though, and you seem to be doing hero evaluation based on that bit. You wrote:

Comment: Hakeem is a seeker hero, and so like all seeker heroes is somewhat uninteresting. Despite having an extra stat point to compensate for their lack of abilities, the 1/1/2 combination has generally been underwhelming when compared to the might or magic-focussed combinations of 2/1/0 or 1/2/0; the invokers with 0/1/2 have generally supported a magic/fortune gamestyle better than the seekers and might/fortune has just never been particularly exciting.
What makes seekers playable, if anything, is their spell schools
Looking historically, when considering T1 decks, there was only one deck (Kieran) with 2/1/0 or 1/2/0 stats that was T1 consistently. (not counting Ariana mill because it's her spell schools and not stats what made her T1).
Sure there are 2 more Seekers, but there were vastly more T1 Seeker decks than 2 - Cassandra Prison, Cassandra Rush, Random Garant, Kat otk, Kat SA, Seria Fortune, Seria spell, Yukiko Avalanche..
And more than half of these decks aren't playable because of respective heroes' spell schools, but rather their stats (Cassandra both decks, Kat SA, Seria Fortune, Yukiko).

So my question would be why do you think 1/1/2 is undrwhelming when compared to 2/1/0 or 1/2/0 ?

hubin23
09-24-2013, 03:23 PM
I am curious how the ability from Gazal, Herald of the Void will work.

Does she have to possess the magic level of the spell?
Does she have to pay the mana costs of that spell?

sonicgarbage
09-24-2013, 03:38 PM
Thanks for the link, unfortunately that's no good for my purposes, I would need individual card images.


http://imgur.com/a/6h5Md#0

MamuzShah
09-24-2013, 03:51 PM
So if Ammar's good, it's going to be because of his ability. It certainly looks powerful on the surface. Once you meet the condition, you're drawing two cards for free every turn of the game.

Why only two ?
My opinion is that you can draw 1 + the number of spell you are able to play. With "Chain Casting", you can potentially draw all your deck !
In my opinion this hero will find a lot of play. With Earth he can manage the board early, with 6 magic, 3 fortune, he will draw a lot. One of the next hero to stall, in my opinion.

El_Bokutal
09-24-2013, 03:59 PM
It's good to have a preview with all cards summerized and I thank you for that.

But for the rating, I'll flat out ignore them. :)
If I remember correctly your rating of HoR cards, Dhamiria earned herself a 2 and I disagreed with to many of them.


Edit : Ratings sounded good for heroes except for Hakeem if he's got Earth+ dark as stated by someone.
But it's hard to rate a heroe without its meta.

Psychobabble.au
09-24-2013, 09:41 PM
Haakem has Death and Earth, not Primal and Earth btw.

Thanks again for the pickup, that also makes him significantly stronger. That's the problem with relying on a hastily written transcription :).


http://imgur.com/a/6h5Md#0

Ugh, unfortunately all of those images are locked somehow in the imgur system, I can't extract them individually.


Hello Psychobabble, it's always interesting to read your reviews both now and couple of weeks after the expansion is already out.
Posts like these inspire people to theory-craft and create hype and excitement for the expansion, so thank you for it.

There is one general bit that i don't agree with though, and you seem to be doing hero evaluation based on that bit. You wrote:

Looking historically, when considering T1 decks, there was only one deck (Kieran) with 2/1/0 or 1/2/0 stats that was T1 consistently. (not counting Ariana mill because it's her spell schools and not stats what made her T1).
Sure there are 2 more Seekers, but there were vastly more T1 Seeker decks than 2 - Cassandra Prison, Cassandra Rush, Random Garant, Kat otk, Kat SA, Seria Fortune, Seria spell, Yukiko Avalanche..
And more than half of these decks aren't playable because of respective heroes' spell schools, but rather their stats (Cassandra both decks, Kat SA, Seria Fortune, Yukiko).

So my question would be why do you think 1/1/2 is undrwhelming when compared to 2/1/0 or 1/2/0 ?

first of all, I would consider ariana spell to have been a T1 hero at various points, and it was her 1/2/0 that was exciting about her. It's not surprising that Kieran is the only 2/1/0 has only been top tier - he's the only hero with those stats period!

My contention is that most of the heroes who get played in a non-OTK style that have 1/1/1 or 1/1/2 would be stronger if they were 2/1/0 or 1/2/0. Nergal, Garant, Ishuma, Kieran, Sandalphon and Seria spell all struggle to get good value out of their point or points in fortune. Garant's the perfect example - hardly any regular builds of Garant play 2-cost fortunes, he would be flat out better with that stat point redistributed somewhere. He's played becuase of his great spell schools not his stats.

As for the OTK decks, I do acknowledge (and have now edited into the review) that some of the OTK decks have used seekers to good effect. Although my memory might be bad, but I thought sandalphon and Siegfried OTK was more common than cassandra. and I guess the extra overall point helps them get to their combo quicker even if it's a sub-optimal distribution compared to an invoker.

Anyway, I could be wrong, but that's just my thoughts over time :). It could certainly be influenced by the types of deck I play, which have always been biased towards might/magic decks which seem to be generally the strongest non-OTK options to me.

Psychobabble.au
09-25-2013, 05:10 AM
Sorry everyone, I forgot to reserve extra posts in this thread, and because I want the review to be entirely viewable from the front page I've shut this thread down and have opened a new one here (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/797250-Forgotten-Wars-full-set-review). Big apologies for that.