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plawress
09-18-2013, 03:25 AM
So I was thinking that creatures/permanent fortunes don't currently use the "Pay x to do y" theme.
Maybe the concept would be too similar to mtg and it's partially covered anyway by the event cards theme.

Trying to figure out how something like this could work in DoC, I kept thinking about how many excess points we sometimes put on might/magic/destiny.
In my last game for example, I was on the brink of death with my Yukilock and I couldn't afford picking up new cards every turn(cause oblivion tower could also kill me), so I dumped the points in destiny. Not that many things to do with 9 destiny levels, that's for sure.
It's true anyway that prioritizing the use of action points(I think they are called that anyway) is only relevant in the early game. In the latter turns it's a no brainer to pick up an extra card instead.

So, how about an ability that can eat up your might/magic/destiny levels to buff itself, while in the process providing a late game strategic dilemma according the trifecta?

Example,

Destructive Hobgoblin
Creature
Inferno
3 production cost/3 might/1 magic/2 destiny
3/0/2 stats
Immune to retaliation
Ability: Devour 2 might points, until the end of your turn, whenever this creature attacks the opponent discards 1 card. (You can not use your hero this turn if you use Devour)

○ Yes, it's pretty powerful I think but you are now 2 might levels down. In the early and mid game that's a very serious decision to make and in the late game you could also use another extra card. You really need to evaluate the situation and make the right choice.
○ It definitely adds to the strategic element of the game.

Another example,

Thesium Siren
Creature
Sanctuary
3 production cost/2 might/1 magic/3 destiny
3/3/3 stats
Outmanoeuvre
Ability: Devour 2 destiny, until your next turn, whenever a creature attacks Thesium Siren return it to it's controllers hand instead.(You can not use your hero if you use Devour)

○ It can possibly be used as a finisher, you have your other sirens down and you drop this to tame the enemy's fatty for 1 turn.
○ But you lose precious destiny points, no more avalanches or thrones for some turns.

Also, not only this theme of eating up your resources gives the game more depth, it's also an indirect buff to weak heroes.
Cause a Dhamiria/Sandalphon etc for example will still want to use their unique abilities over devour, while a Takane or a Jezziel can now form new better decks using these devour cards.

You can see that I started from thinking another game's mechanic and ended up finding out a weak point in DoC.
As things are, I think that the m/m/d trifecta lacks strategic value in the late game.
Devour or something akin to that could really help with that or so I think.

Thoughts?
And don't be shy to bash this idea, no hard feelings, xD.

* Devour option could be added to you hero dropdown list greyed out and open up if you have an eligible card in the battlefield.

Shippal
09-23-2013, 01:52 PM
Firstly, this thought actually requires multiple things to be implemented:


Abilities on creatures that the player can activate during their turn
Creatures that reduce player thresholds
Payment to use creature abilities (this exists already in the form of Rogue Mercenaries and one of the new Djinns, but not in this manner)


The reason I bring this up is because this takes time to implement. Also, in a game where creatures can attack, move, and be deployed in any order, having "Activate" abilities has the chance of becoming broken--but it has to be implemented in a way that players will use them.

Now, about the creatures: I just want to say that no one would use either of them in their current form. The reason is because their "activate" cost is *way* too high. They don't cost just "2 might" for Destructive Goblin and "2 Destiny" for Thesium Siren, but actually 2 Might + 1 threshold, and 2 Destiny + 1 threshold, counting the opportunity cost of not being able to use the hero that turn. That effectively means that the player has to waste 3 turns to make up for the "cost" of using that creature. And look at the abilities:

"whenever this creature attacks the opponent discards 1 card."

That effectively means... the opponent discards 1 card. That's it. For reference, a 1 cost fortune allows the player to discard a Spell and see the opponent's hand (or Fortune for a different card). For a 2 cost fortune, in one instance, the opponent discards 2 cards randomly, and a different 2 cost fortune lets you choose any card from your opponent's hand to discard. With those options, a card that stalls your playing for 3 turns just for 1 discard is a bit too weak.

Better:

Destructive Hobgoblin ("Hobgoblin" fits better with Stronghold than Inferno, so maybe a different creature type would be better)
Melee Creature
2* Resource
2* Might / 2 Destiny (no Magic)

3 Att / 0 Ret / 2 HP
{Removed: Immune to Retaliation, to account for new cost}
Ability: If you have not used your hero this turn and you attack with this creature, this creature devours 1 Might. If this creature survives the attack, your opponent discards 1 card randomly.

This fits within the confines of the game, without adding "Activated Ability" as one of the things the devs would need to implement. Also, its stats and cost are more representative of what else is in the game.

Thesium Siren
Melee Creature
3 Resource
2 Might / 1 Magic / 2* Destiny (so this creature can be pulled out on Turn 3)

3 Att / 3 Ret / 3 HP
Outmaneuver
Ability: If you have not used your hero this turn and you attack with this creature, this creature devours 1 Destiny. If this creature survives the attack, until your next turn, this creature gets "Retribution. Ranged Reflect 1. Whenever a creature receives combat damage from this creature, return that creature to its controller's hand."

The ability change with this one is quite extensive. I changed it this way because the way you had worded it was 1) extremely strong, and 2) would never actually trigger, because the opponent would always know any attack they made on the creature would be useless. With its current change, the same bounce happens, but enemy creatures will still damage this creature. They will just get bounced after the attack. Moreover, with 3 Retaliation and Retribution, the enemy will think twice about attacking with melee creatures, as it is either an instance of bounce... or die. Shooters will almost always bounce though, with just 1 Ranged Reflect.

plawress
09-23-2013, 06:29 PM
Well, these were just examples of cards with that ability.
Although I agree with your points, your version is better since the coders have less stuff to do.

But you didn't comment on the main thing which is the devour idea itself.
Do you find it useful?

I'll explain once again just for clarity.
There are many times when your production(lets say you are in turn 10) doesn't allow you to pick up a card and you already meet your deck's requirements(lets say 4 might, 4 magic, 2 destiny).
So, you use these 10 production points and all that's left to do is to upgrade one of the three resources.
But you don't need 5 might or 7 magic etc. This is a waste.
Thus if there were some cards that could eat up/reduce your resources the system would be perfect.

CookieSquad
01-14-2014, 11:38 PM
i think the devour itself is a nice idea, but why limit it to creatures while it would fit to fortunes so much better?

how about some really powerfull fortunes that cost you some of your levels but only few ressources

then you end up with this beautiful tactical dilemma:
you COULD use this fortune in the earlygame were it might give you a rather big advantage on the field but then you cripple your lategame because you have to reup your points
or you could wait for the lategame where the card is less powerfull and not take the penalty of losing some of your speed because you should be at high enough stats anyways

just a fast (and maybe unbalanced) example:

"Desperate Muster" (Haven)
cost 3
might 2
fortune 3
Ongoing. Until end of turn. Increase your might by 1, creatures you deploy this turn cost 2 less and come into play with a cripple counter
Decrease your might by 2 at the end of this turn.
"Sometimes you need to take any recruit you get"