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Merlini.a.f.
04-19-2004, 10:18 AM
i was wondering. how come planes need so many bullets to down? i mean take the 0.303cal machine gun, it could pierce a train rail from 200m. and a rainl is what? 14-15mm thick right? the Fw190(one of the best armored planes in ww2)had armor from 3-8mm thickness. what i'm saying is that in FB you could empty a hurricane B at a fw190 and it would heep on flying. in FB the fw190 can take a considerable amount of 0.50cal bullets aswell. you don't down a plane by tearing off wings and stabilizers, you down it by shooting up it's systems.
basically in FB there aren't enought "SYSTEMS" to be shot to shreds. anything from fulepumps to radiators(oil and coolant) to prop pitch control to turbocharger and so on and so forth.
i know that it would require to much CPU number-crunching power, but oleg could compensate by adding "more power" to the guns in general.
what do you flyers say about the whole damage model thing?
S!

Merlini.a.f.
04-19-2004, 10:18 AM
i was wondering. how come planes need so many bullets to down? i mean take the 0.303cal machine gun, it could pierce a train rail from 200m. and a rainl is what? 14-15mm thick right? the Fw190(one of the best armored planes in ww2)had armor from 3-8mm thickness. what i'm saying is that in FB you could empty a hurricane B at a fw190 and it would heep on flying. in FB the fw190 can take a considerable amount of 0.50cal bullets aswell. you don't down a plane by tearing off wings and stabilizers, you down it by shooting up it's systems.
basically in FB there aren't enought "SYSTEMS" to be shot to shreds. anything from fulepumps to radiators(oil and coolant) to prop pitch control to turbocharger and so on and so forth.
i know that it would require to much CPU number-crunching power, but oleg could compensate by adding "more power" to the guns in general.
what do you flyers say about the whole damage model thing?
S!

Chuck_Older
04-19-2004, 10:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Merlini.a.f.:
i was wondering. how come planes need so many bullets to down? i mean take the 0.303cal machine gun, it could pierce a train rail from 200m. and a rainl is what? 14-15mm thick right? the Fw190(one of the best armored planes in ww2)had armor from 3-8mm thickness. what i'm saying is that in FB you could empty a hurricane B at a fw190 and it would heep on flying. in FB the fw190 can take a considerable amount of 0.50cal bullets aswell. you don't down a plane by tearing off wings and stabilizers, you down it by shooting up it's systems.
basically in FB there aren't enought "SYSTEMS" to be shot to shreds. anything from fulepumps to radiators(oil and coolant) to prop pitch control to turbocharger and so on and so forth.
i know that it would require to much CPU number-crunching power, but oleg could compensate by adding "more power" to the guns in general.
what do you flyers say about the whole damage model thing?
S!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A .303 can pierce a train track rail that's over half an inch thick? Where did you hear that? A .303 round is a rifle caliber round.

*****************************
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Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
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Udidtoo
04-19-2004, 10:28 AM
Where may one acquire some of these rail peirceing rounds. It would surely make shooting Sturmoviks down a bit simpler. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-19-2004, 10:30 AM
I say "it can always be better", but we only realize the possibility of making it better because of the great things we've come to expect as a result of Il2 and later FB:Aces. Oleg has already said the damage model in BoB will be considerably more complex than what we currently have (although it's a year away at best).

I think there are a few things that were/are way off as far as damage modeling and many have already been/will be addressed in the pending patch (i.e. MG damage is too light in some cases, the I-16 was almost impossible to bring down before it was fixed, the roll-rate of the P-47 was...er...will be fixed etc,...)

More complex damage modeling is something that's all but inevitable and I, for one, am enjoying the flight-sim products now more than ever (and I've been at it for a good while mind you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif



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DayGlow
04-19-2004, 10:36 AM
also our original poster is forgetting that a rifle round simply passes through the target and unless it hits something critical all it does is make a .303 inch hole in the plane.

Cannon rounds on the other hand are fused and cause shrapnel damage to the target, increase the chance of destroying something.

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I am not an employee of Eagle Dynamics nor Ubisoft and I do not speak for them.
All my comments are IMHO

Merlini.a.f.
04-19-2004, 10:41 AM
my cousin is an officer in the isaeli army. that's how i heard those things about 7.62mm rounds. have you ever seen a bulletany caliber) impact? HUGE force. not to mention that an m60 can "cut" a tree in half from 800m. i mean afterall there where "anti-tank rifles" in the 2ww. the don't call them antitank for nothing.don't underestimate the jouls of a bullet. kinetical and chemical. i've seen browningM2's fired at cars(at fireing ranges)the bullets went through the engine like hot knife through butter,and they weren't even AP/I.
bullets are usually underestimated.trust me i know.

Merlini.a.f.
04-19-2004, 10:43 AM
thanks DayGlow. forgot to mention that.
besides that's exactly what i mean. in FB there aren't any systems to be hit by these bullets.
S!

Udidtoo
04-19-2004, 10:54 AM
Well.....since you said trust me.....ok!

Atually Merlini, you would be amased at the wealth of knowledge and 1st hand experiance in this forum. I happen to own several firearms that fire 7.62

While it is a fine round, it by no means will penatrate a railroad rail, at any distance.

I use a 7mm remington magnum for Elk hunting. I don't have a mathamatical chart to compare the 2 rounds. Lets just say 7.62 is firecracker, the 7mag a stick of dynomite.

It won't penatrate a steel trak rail at 200 m. either...............trust me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

[This message was edited by Udidtoo on Mon April 19 2004 at 10:04 AM.]

Winna87
04-19-2004, 10:56 AM
M60 cut a tree doen at 800m? You can't even see a tree trunk at 800 yards. If this was true....Vietnam would have been whiped of trees. 7.62 rounds are rifle rounds, they are ment for penatration and damage. They cannot cut a tree down at 800m, lol. You are not getting this information from an accurate source.

Merlini.a.f.
04-19-2004, 10:57 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
and let's not forget that i said 200m. in AtA the bullet travels from as little as 10m,15m to 1000m,1500m and draq reduces bullet energy tremendously.
like Thunderbolt56 said "it can always be better"
and you know what? he's right.

I Die to fly,but i don't fly to die http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Merlini.a.f.
04-19-2004, 10:59 AM
i meant that from 800m it could pierce a tree trunk. ofcourse you would need a "sniper-machinegun" to actually do it.