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View Full Version : So SC Fans, Do you think Blacklist has topped Chaos Theory? or is chaos still #1?



RaviChowdhury
09-01-2013, 10:00 PM
First of all i'd like to praise ubisoft on how hard they worked for blacklist. it was much better in my opinion than conviction, DA, PT and the first one. They were all good but Blacklist has been one of my favourites in the series. I just love the game and i'm pretty sad that it was pretty short. Can't wait for the next one on the next gen consoles though.

The thing is though that Splinter Cell Chaos Theory was the unique title in the series and in my opinion one of the best. I was wondering if Blacklist would top it, and im not pretty sure. Blacklist in my opinion has better animation, graphics obviously but i'm not sure on what i think was a better game. SC Chaos Theory in my opinion had the best story, gameplay and missions/levels and difficulty. it was perfect.


So SC fans, what do you think? Ubisoft have finally produced a game that tops Chaos Theory or is Chaos Theory still #1?

stealth1276
09-01-2013, 10:27 PM
My opinion only,

Better Splinter Cell? Chaos Theory
Better Game? Blacklist

The_Munc_e
09-01-2013, 10:34 PM
I really enjoy the game on Perfectionist. It's a great game, with great missions, locales, and such. It's also a total package.

I still like CT though. If it wasn't for them not using Ironside's voice, I would probably like Blacklist just as much, but Sam's character is just WAY OFF in Blacklist.

Azin-Morosa
09-01-2013, 10:49 PM
They never can top Chaos Theory. Alone the CoOp (Agent 1 and Agent 2. Yes they are still alive. At least that can be seen in the Wikia (Splinter Cell Wikipedia) of CT was so brilliant you cannot compare it with Blacklist. Blacklist is my 4th ranked game from Splinter Cell. Sam has lost his personality and he is now a angry man with a past of many lies.

downfierce
09-01-2013, 10:58 PM
My opinion only,

Better Splinter Cell? Chaos Theory
Better Game? Blacklist
Makes ZERO sense.

My vote goes to Blacklist OP.

Chaos Isaac
09-01-2013, 11:09 PM
They never can top Chaos Theory. Alone the CoOp (Agent 1 and Agent 2. Yes they are still alive.) of CT was so brilliant you cannot compare it with Blacklist. Blacklist is my 4th ranked game from Splinter Cell. Sam has lost his personality and he is now a angry man with a past of many lies.

All because of what happened during the older games. xD And they could have been killed during the SplinterCellKillathon that happened during the end bits of Conviction.

On topic: Blacklist is the superior.

Vestmann
09-01-2013, 11:22 PM
Blacklist has the upper hand by being made with a more powerful engine but that's not what really matters. If Chaos Theory would have a face lift with a new engine it would blow Blacklist out of the water. There are some elements missing from Blacklist like adjustable sneak speed, light and noise meters and the grab/interrogate feature. Chaos theory also has the fantastic "between walls" jump that I miss a bit.

I'm really loving Blacklist but to be completely fair I'd give the win to Chaos Theory.

stealth1276
09-01-2013, 11:30 PM
Makes ZERO sense.
Sure it does...
Chaos Theory is better as a Splinter Cell, the feeling of being a Splinter Cell, and the sense of espionage that went along with that story. A better representation of what it means to be a Splinter Cell.
Blacklist is more fun as a game, with more to do ( Kobin/ Grim missions, etc. ) since CT was also more technically limited(animations, graphics, A.I.), having been released in 2005.

Dome500
09-01-2013, 11:40 PM
Chaos Theory is still Nr. 1 for me.

But Blacklist comes close.

If they continue with the addition of old elements and new elements and reduce the forced seqeunes (forced action, forced detection, forced "we know you are here" and forced "you have to use this gadget" sequences) and make a better story SC7 will top Chaos Theory for sure.

stealth1276
09-02-2013, 12:00 AM
Chaos Theory is still Nr. 1 for me.

Burt Blacklist comes close.

If they continue with the addition of old elements and new elements and reduce the forced sequences (forced action, forced detection, forced "we know you are here" and forced "you have to use this gadget" sequences) and make a better story SC7 will top Chaos Theory for sure.

Agree, entirely. I would like to be optimistic and say we are moving in the right direction. I understand some of those forced sequences are added for variety, but what really bothers me is when they force you into doing things without consideration of what you did leading up to that point.(i.e. Ghosting through a level only to be forced into action anyways).
But at least some of Blacklist's encounters were still possible do while remaining a ghost or non-lethal. (Like triggering a bomb for the sake of the story, or starting a chase sequence, both which were ghostable)

Dome500
09-02-2013, 12:12 AM
Agree, entirely. I would like to be optimistic and say we are moving in the right direction. I understand some of those forced sequences are added for variety, but what really bothers me is when they force you into doing things without consideration of what you did leading up to that point.(i.e. Ghosting through a level only to be forced into action anyways).
But at least some of Blacklist's encounters were still possible do while remaining a ghost or non-lethal. (Like triggering a bomb for the sake of the story, or starting a chase sequence, both which were ghostable)

Yeah I agree, some where ok. And some are also ok if they are just some.

The only thing I don't like about the forced sequences is the number of sequences the have in total and that some of them make no sense or just their for the sake of action. (making no sense in terms of "Sam would never do that (Paraguay) or that there is no real justification for it (Train Yard, Sam rushed in AFTER the bombs are defused and the Engineer leader is trapped instead of taking his time, since he has time in that situation) and in terms of Sam making a lot of mistakes.

What I also didn't like was Sam torturing people or threatening civilians (at the end with the generals family). I don't mind other people torturing, but Sam was always strictly against doing something like this himself and that had a reason. this was a moral border for him, and should be again in the future.

mistahkmak
09-02-2013, 12:14 AM
Chaos theory >sar>pt>lg DA>bl> DA >conviction>essentials

Dome500
09-02-2013, 12:18 AM
Chaos Theory => SAR (nostalgia) => Blacklist => PT => DA (only played new gen) => Conviction

soldiersback
09-02-2013, 12:19 AM
For its time, Chaos Theory was more revolutionairy than Blacklist is for now. Chaos theory did something unique with its gameplay, and the graphics were huge back then.

What is Blacklist? It's not very unique. Many gameplay elements are dumbed down for casual crowds, but that's the case with all games nowadays. You cannot put out a game anymore in which you are stuck at the same part for more than 5 minutes before people come online and complain.

Blacklist is very fun, challenging on Perfectionist and I like it very much, but no. This game doesn't pack a punch as Chaos Theory did in 2005.

Chaos Isaac
09-02-2013, 12:19 AM
Yeah I agree, some where ok. And some are also ok if they are just some.

The only thing I don't like about the forced sequences is the number of sequences the have in total and that some of them make no sense or just their for the sake of action. (making no sense in terms of "Sam would never do that (Paraguay) or that there is no real justification for it (Train Yard, Sam rushed in AFTER the bombs are defused and the Engineer leader is trapped instead of taking his time, since he has time in that situation) and in terms of Sam making a lot of mistakes.

What I also didn't like was Sam torturing people or threatening civilians (at the end with the generals family). I don't mind other people torturing, but Sam was always strictly against doing something like this himself and that had a reason. this was a moral border for him, and should be again in the future.

He didn't actually threaten any civilians.

stealth1276
09-02-2013, 12:40 AM
I don't mind other people torturing, but Sam was always strictly against doing something like this himself and that had a reason. this was a moral border for him, and should be again in the future.

Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/v/rL2_nHQ9B8c?start=36&end=49&version=3

I think Old-Gen DA was underrated. Nobody ever seems to mention it, though I thought it was better than new-gen version.

x1CeMaN
09-02-2013, 01:02 AM
If you think this is better than chaos theory you have NEVER played chaos theory. Seriously. Not even close. This has so many issues and feels cheap compared to a gem.

FrankieSatt
09-02-2013, 02:07 AM
With all the flaws in Blacklist so far there is NO WAY it can be better than any of the Legacy games, in my mind at least.

Better than Conviction, YES.
Better than Double Agent, YES.

Better than Chaos Theory and PT, NO.
Better than SAR, it's very close but I still say NO.

I'll be doing a full review when I finish the main campaign, but I see too many flaws so far to make this better than any of the Legacy games.

FighterForJC
09-02-2013, 02:10 AM
Kudos to the OP for daring to ask such a question. I didn't beat Chaos Theory and I don't recall what it was that made me stop playing. That was 8 or 9 years ago and I can't remember much. I do know that 10 years from now I'll still remember Blacklist and Conviction. People seem to really respect CT and I have no problem with it. To me it's always about the gameplay first and in that sense the last two Splinter Cells trample Chaos Theory.

ikkisama
09-02-2013, 02:12 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/787993-Chaos-theory-dethroned

sam2000_290
09-02-2013, 04:39 AM
CT is still number one for the fact that you can pure ghost your way through all the missions. SCB, you have way too many forced actions.

aznassassin159
09-02-2013, 05:30 AM
1) Chaos Theory
2) Double Agent (last-gen)
3) Pandora Tomorrow
4) Double Agent (current -gen)
5) Blacklist
6) SAR
7) Essentials
8) Conviction

KenTWOu
09-02-2013, 08:53 AM
CT is still number one for the fact that you can pure ghost your way through all the missions.
No, you can't. For example, you must knock out the last enemy on the top of the lighthouse (the first mission!). That's not pure ghosting. There are other examples when you must deal with enemies here and there. So you can pure ghost through most of them, not through all of them.

FighterForJC
09-02-2013, 09:24 AM
1. Conviction- most cohesive, intense experience of the series, great gameplay mechanics, turned Sam into a predator rather than a frail spy afraid to get spotted
2. Blacklist- expands on the gameplay of Conviction and for the first time in franchise history, makes traditional stealth a fun option and gives players a good reason to not get too attached to the sublime gunplay; mission structure gets in the way and breaks immersion
3. Splinter Cell (original)- was groundbreaking in its time and felt sophisticated compared to everything else on the market

BoBwUzHeRe1138
09-02-2013, 09:38 AM
Nope.

1. CT/SAR
2. PT
3. Old Gen DA
4. New Gen DA
5. Blacklist

That said... that's only for now. Depending on how the rest of the game is (I'm on Transit Yards right now) it will either stay at the current position or tie with New Gen DA.

Knot3D
09-02-2013, 09:51 AM
Blacklist is a very good franchise REDEEMER and for that, I'm very thankful. Thankful, not only to the UbiTor team, but also to the rest of the games industry who made the suits at Ubisoft see that
stealth is still very much a viable standalone genre.

Whereas Blacklist is the redeemer, Conviction was and still is the proverbial elephant in a ceramic china store. It had to break too many pots to produce a handful of innovations in the SC foundations.

Chaos Theory is a SC historical landmark. Although I do have to say, it didn't quite live up to my selfcreated expectations ( based on the E3 2004 demo ).

My current ranking :

#1 Pandora Tomorrow : sharpest enemy ears, tiered enemy defense system & fantastic level design ( Jerusalem LA Lax etc )
#2 Stealth Action Redefined
#3 Blacklist
#4 Chaos Theory
#5 Double Agent Old Gen
#6 Double Agent 360
#7 Conviction
#8 Essentials

Dome500
09-02-2013, 02:19 PM
Kudos to the OP for daring to ask such a question. I didn't beat Chaos Theory and I don't recall what it was that made me stop playing. That was 8 or 9 years ago and I can't remember much. I do know that 10 years from now I'll still remember Blacklist and Conviction. People seem to really respect CT and I have no problem with it. To me it's always about the gameplay first and in that sense the last two Splinter Cells trample Chaos Theory.

Play it again dude and report back to us what you think then :)

Dome500
09-02-2013, 02:22 PM
CT is still number one for the fact that you can pure ghost your way through all the missions. SCB, you have way too many forced actions.

=> this


No, you can't. For example, you must knock out the last enemy on the top of the lighthouse (the first mission!). That's not pure ghosting. There are other examples when you must deal with enemies here and there. So you can pure ghost through most of them, not through all of them.

True that but aside from that guy, the NVG guys in bathhouse and the "big bosses" (Lacerda, Shetland, Nedich, Otomo) you an ghost the rest.

I don't know what you mean with the "other situations" because I have encountered none that HAS to be done.

But I think there are two things we can definitely say about Blacklist (coop/sp):

=> It's WAY better than Conviction
=> It's (imo) better than new Gen DA.

I like to compare it with PT (very much because of the similarities). Gameplay wise in terms of challenge and difficulty I think PT was better/harder. I found PT way to frustrating in terms of sharp enemy ears though.

FighterForJC
09-02-2013, 02:49 PM
Play it again dude and report back to us what you think then :)

I can't. I don't have the original Xbox anymore. Chaos Theory is a great game, it just has broken gameplay. I can't stand for deliberately gimped shooting mechanics just to force stealth on players.

Dome500
09-02-2013, 03:01 PM
I can't. I don't have the original Xbox anymore. Chaos Theory is a great game, it just has broken gameplay. I can't stand for deliberately gimped shooting mechanics just to force stealth on players.


You have a PC?

CT should run on every standard PC.

FighterForJC
09-02-2013, 03:08 PM
You have a PC?

CT should run on every standard PC.

Does the PC version of Chaos Theory feature shooting mechanics nearly as good as Blacklist's?

aznassassin159
09-02-2013, 03:10 PM
I had no problem with CT's shooting mechanics.

The only "gimp" out there is that you can't Mark and Aimbot, and you can't carry so much ammo that you can Rambo your way through unless you're accurate.

Jazz117Volkov
09-02-2013, 03:21 PM
I had no problem with CT's shooting mechanics.They were abysmal, and it was intentional.
Saying you have no problem with it is like saying you have no problem with a car that only has 1st gear.
You are not incorrect, because there is nothing to be incorrect about, but if your remark was to imply quality, or substance, then you are most certainly mistaken.

For the most part, Blacklist is a fully functional 3rd person shooter.
Everything with Chaos Theory's shooting mechanics were angled to deter the player from using them, especially to engage the AI.

To answer the asker's question, no, CT does not offer anything even close to the shooting mechanics of Blacklist.
CT offers a function, over-the-shoulder reticule, only when your weapon is drawn, and your movement speed is crippled, you have no accuracy while moving, and the weapons themselves are hopeless parodies of real guns. It allows you to sit static in the shadows and take out lights or brains, while in an undetected state.

One thing Chaos Theory does do, better than any other game I've ever played, and that ambidextrous aiming.
Blacklist, needs this, and other shooters need to measure up.

aznassassin159
09-02-2013, 03:30 PM
CT offers a function, over-the-shoulder reticule, only when your weapon is drawn, and your movement speed is crippled, you have no accuracy while moving, and the weapons themselves are hopeless parodies of real guns. It allows you to sit static in the shadows and take out lights or brains, while in an undetected state.

I think that's the reason I had no problem with the shooting controls. Because that's exactly how I play. I don't play CT like an explosive Gears of War spin-off where I fill my enemies with so much lead that I can use them as an anchor. That's not how CT was meant to be played.

FighterForJC
09-02-2013, 03:36 PM
They were abysmal, and it was intentional.
Saying you have no problem with it is like saying you have no problem with a car that only has 1st gear.
You are not incorrect, because there is nothing to be incorrect about, but if your remark was to imply quality, or substance, then you are most certainly mistaken.

For the most part, Blacklist is a fully functional 3rd person shooter.
Everything with Chaos Theory's shooting mechanics were angled to deter the player from using them, especially to engage the AI.

To answer the asker's question, no, CT does not offer anything even close to the shooting mechanics of Blacklist.
CT offers a function, over-the-shoulder reticule, only when your weapon is drawn, and your movement speed is crippled, you have no accuracy while moving, and the weapons themselves are hopeless parodies of real guns. It allows you to sit static in the shadows and take out lights or brains, while in an undetected state.

One thing Chaos Theory does do, better than any other game I've ever played, and that ambidextrous aiming.
Blacklist, needs this, and other shooters need to measure up.

Your non-fanboy response is much appreciated!

Also, my question wasn't a rhetorical one. I played Chaos Theory on the Xbox and I know how PC gamers brag about their superior point and click mouse aiming, wondering if that did anything to alleviate Chaos Theory's aiming woes.

FighterForJC
09-02-2013, 03:44 PM
I think that's the reason I had no problem with the shooting controls. Because that's exactly how I play. I don't play CT like an explosive Gears of War spin-off where I fill my enemies with so much lead that I can use them as an anchor. That's not how CT was meant to be played.

I thought Splinter Cell was a super spy simulator. I guess you're right, in real life there are no real James Bonds and secret agents aren't really trained killers and are more like glorified accountants. Why should Fisher have any basic training when it comes to firing a weapon?

Dome500
09-02-2013, 03:44 PM
Your non-fanboy response is much appreciated!

Also, my question wasn't a rhetorical one. I played Chaos Theory on the Xbox and I know how PC gamers brag about their superior point and click mouse aiming, wondering if that did anything to alleviate Chaos Theory's aiming woes.

A little bit, but it's still not MADE to shoot around with it.

But again, that's what I like about the games.

If you are the shooting type, don't play a stealth game.

FighterForJC
09-02-2013, 03:47 PM
A little bit, but it's still not MADE to shoot around with it.

But again, that's what I like about the games.

If you are the shooting type, don't play a stealth game.

I love stealth games, especially ones where the main purpose of your stealth is to protect the ENEMY's lives, because if they make the mistake of spotting you, it's game over for THEM.

Jazz117Volkov
09-02-2013, 03:48 PM
I think that's the reason I had no problem with the shooting controls. Because that's exactly how I play. I don't play CT like an explosive Gears of War spin-off where I fill my enemies with so much lead that I can use them as an anchor. That's not how CT was meant to be played.Ironically, your definition of what you don't do is exactly what happens in CT if you're not following the aforementioned definition of what to do. In every way thanks to the atrocious aiming system.

The system Blacklist offers, allows the player to save a potential fuxter-cluck with little more than a swift headshot.
It is, in every way, better, your play-style notwithstanding.


PC gamers brag about their superior point and click mouse aimingThat they do... and I enjoy destroying them online with my X360 controller. :cool:

wondering if that did anything to alleviate Chaos Theory's aiming woes.Not in my experience; the extra speed of the mouse made the motions more twitchy, consequently making your accuracy less consistent/predictable, unless you're reticule is static. Game just feels better with analogue sticks, 'cause that's what it was foremost designed for.


I love stealth games, especially ones where the main purpose of your stealth is to protect the ENEMY's lives, because if they make the mistake of spotting you, it's game over for THEM.I like this.
My saying goes; when a rookie is spotted, he is killed; when a pro is spotted, everyone else is killed.

aznassassin159
09-02-2013, 03:55 PM
A little bit, but it's still not MADE to shoot around with it.

But again, that's what I like about the games.

If you are the shooting type, don't play a stealth game.

This.

If you're walking into CT and expect it to play like a typical brown-tinged shooter (eg Gears of War, Battlefield, Call of Duty), you're not going to get it.

Ironwoods56
09-02-2013, 04:20 PM
I can't. I don't have the original Xbox anymore. Chaos Theory is a great game, it just has broken gameplay. I can't stand for deliberately gimped shooting mechanics just to force stealth on players.

Actually Chaos Theory is in the Xbox Marketplace for $9.99

FighterForJC
09-02-2013, 04:50 PM
This.

If you're walking into CT and expect it to play like a typical brown-tinged shooter (eg Gears of War, Battlefield, Call of Duty), you're not going to get it.

That's the beauty of it. The first time I beat Blacklist (normal difficulty) I played it like Uncharted 3 except the bad guys aren't bullet sponges in Blacklist. Even on Perfectionist a lot of scenarios can be beaten Assault style.

S0meAmateur
04-30-2014, 06:00 PM
I think that they are close, but a few things eroded the experience enough to make Chaos Theory superior.

1. Voice and Character- Though the current voice of Sam is good, it does not match the old Sam at all. You see a middle aged man, but you hear a guy in his mid twenties. It just makes it weird, especially during the phone calls to Sarah. Sam has also lost his humor. These things have to change for Sam to keep his character intact.

2. Enemy interaction and personality- One of the biggest let downs for me. No interrogations to let Sam's dark humor show. You can be in a room of computers, but you can only use the ones that you need to use to progress the mission, and you never get any side information from them.
Reading e-mails about the guards and civilians gave real insight into their lives. The lack of this really dropped the moral questions in the game. "Should I wipe these guys out? They hate their bosses, and have no idea what they are part of." Listening to sound bites from the leaders are one thing, but reading an e-mail from civilians' families and hearing guards turn into cowards when interrogated really adds a layer of personality to the NPCs.

3. Flexibility- Through most of the game, the ability to play how you want is a good thing. Until you are forced to use specific gadgets, or into a fight. It's good for the story, but it can be really annoying when you go through all the trouble of being stealthy, just to get into a huge, unavoidable firefight later.
These moments should be a reaction to how you have played so far.For example if you are shooting everyone and blowing stuff up, then you would get a more aggressive tactics later, with ambushes already set up and waiting for a fight, but if you knock out or bypass guards, then the following events should be less... explosive.

Chaos Theory and PS2/Xbox Double Agent are the benchmarks for who Sam is, what his job is, and what he stands for. Blacklist is a step in the right direction, with improved weapons handling and flexibility being biggest improvements, but it is still not perfect. It sacrificed character for gameplay elements, and gameplay elements for story, which is told more by who the characters are than their actions. The older games found the right balance, but Blacklist is not quite there yet.

Daredevil_Diver
04-30-2014, 10:53 PM
I was barely fifteen when Chaos Theory came out. I didn't understand it all, there was no way i could have. It was an amazing game. I loved them all up to and including Conviction.

Now originally i posted that it didn't measure up for many of the already over stated reasons. Sam's Script

But my mind has been changed.

Thanks to a small but good bit of dialog that proved to me that Sam still has his cynical wit: It's in the Istanbul Fish Market, Start of the second area. (That entire mission brings back memories of SAR's T'billisi, Georgia level) I'd put it on the level with Chaos Theory.

It's not the exact same experience, since it's strengths and weaknesses are parallel planes to Chaos Theory's, but it's equal. Especially when i ignore the existence of Mark and Execute and rely on my own cunning, which i recommend highly if you want the most out of the game (my personal opinion).

RaulO4
04-30-2014, 11:39 PM
no, CT was the best in slow stealth

Balcklist is best in the new stealth

both games cant be compare in my eyes, because they not the same....

CT/SCB are the SC kings

Rugterwyper32
05-01-2014, 12:05 AM
After a replay of each game, I'll have to say

1. PT (I found it to have the most enjoyable variety of locales, the best soundtrack in the series, and even though it feels dated I feel it hasn't hit as hard as SAR. The alarm system is great, too.)
2. CT (It has some of the best designed missions of the series, a bunch of small details that make it pretty special, but I don't seem to go back to it as much as PT. Plus, while Displace is an amazing mission comparable to CIA HQ or LAX, I never felt it had quite the same impact as those two).
3. Blacklist (Had it some more minor details such as laptops working like CT, better writing and a few of those forced action missions were not there, I'd prefer it to CT. Both Special Missions HQ and Gitmo were outrageous infiltrations along the lines of CIA HQ or LAX, but unfortunately Special Missions HQ suffered from some bad writing and a poor attempt at a homage to Presidential Palace. And Site F was plain old amazing)
4. SAR (It has CIA HQ and Presidential Palace, 'nuff said. It's a great game with some incredibly atmospheric missions, but you can feel it's dated. It still stands up to many games today, though, specially in terms of atmosphere)
5. Conviction (I have many, many issues with it. But I keep coming back for Deniable Ops. That's undoubtedly one of the most fun experiences I've had in gaming. Unfortunately the main story doesn't stack up to that side mode. Kinda like RE4 and Mercenaries Mode, except RE4 was a more solid game on its own right).
6. DA PS360 (It has some missions I absolutely love as the Cozumel Cruiser and Shanghai. Unfortunately, some elements feel like a step-back such as the traffic light detection system and level design wasn't as strong as other games in the series overall. I also tend to find it feels stiffer than previous games with some not as responsive controls, which hurt the experience)

Tryptaminee
05-01-2014, 12:18 AM
Sorry but Blacklist wishes it could be held in the same breath as chaos theory.

SolidSage
05-01-2014, 07:10 AM
Out of all the SplinterCell games I prefer to replay Conviction's Co-Op and Deniable Ops modes most.

Archer & Kestrel were the best so far.

Dome500
05-01-2014, 02:44 PM
After long term testing of Blacklist I came to a conclusion, and I think I don't have to separate games only, but also game modes(sp/coop only). Here it goes:

1. Splinter Cell Chaos Theory => Great Story, amazing characters, Great gameplay (for the time), most variety of envrionment/enemy interactions and most "living and breathing world" feeling of the whole franchise
2. Splinter Cell Chaos Theory Coop => About the same as above with the addition of great coop gameplay and cool coop moves. Less sandboxy, therefore not as high as CT.
3. Splinter Cell Conviction Coop/D-Ops => A good Coop story, and (for the possibilties based on the gameplay they could work with) very good gameplay. D-Ops highly replayable, and even the Coop Campaign is moderately replayable with 2 likable characters, a very Espionage-esque story and nice maps. Number 3 mainly because of replayability.
4. Splinter Cell SAR => Feels outdated, but very sophisticated for it's time, a great story, good characters, unique atmosphere
5a. Splinter Cell Blacklist => Singleplayer is definitely the gem of the game, despite the F.A.S.'s, mediocre story, flat characters, but good new additions (customization, big variety of gadgets) and some really good missions among it (London (except the last part), Gitmo (too short though), Site F (to name a few)). And if the game actually gives you freedom and possibilities, and lets you play the way you want (it does not do that often enough) in terms of how to fulfill objectives and get to the point you have to get, then it's really good. Still lacks interrogations and a lot of environmental interactions though, as well as a more "living, breathing world" (emails, conversations, news, fleshing out the world you move in).
5b. Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow => Characters definitely better than SCB, story is on one level with SCB I think, maybe a little better, but I never liked it. Some amazing missions (Train (too short), Submarine (unique), Television Free Indonesia, LAX), good gameplay and reasonable improvements in comparison with SAR (even though story is not as good as SAR)
6. Splinter Cell Double Agent => Definitely not as good at the rest. Good legacy gameplay, but the story and the scenario lack certain things, level design mediocre, despite nice visuals. Nice as a change, but not really comparable and one of my least favorites despite the interesting undercover theme and moral dilemmas.
7. Splinter Cell Blacklist Coop => Interesting story at first, but the gameplay is way too "exotic" and dictated, the only "awesome" missions are Missile Plant and Abandoned City (with the latter having a not very nice ending section), the coop-moves while cool in animation are mostly used at places where you do not need them, so they are useless most of the time, also the comment are not really good ("Teamwork, I love it"), and the overall story, while the scenario sounds interesting, was just not that great. The gameplay was the main problem here though. More forced than Conviction Coop gameplay. Good when not forced, the problem is like I said to many F.A.S. (Forced Action Sequences) and exotic moments.
8. Splinter Cell Conviction => Obviously. Messed up story, contradicted lore, changed personalities, cliche villain, action-oriented (a chopper, really?) gameplay and way too short story.

Daredevil_Diver
05-01-2014, 11:17 PM
After a replay of each game, I'll have to say

1. PT (I found it to have the most enjoyable variety of locales, the best soundtrack in the series, and even though it feels dated I feel it hasn't hit as hard as SAR. The alarm system is great, too.)
2. CT (It has some of the best designed missions of the series, a bunch of small details that make it pretty special, but I don't seem to go back to it as much as PT. Plus, while Displace is an amazing mission comparable to CIA HQ or LAX, I never felt it had quite the same impact as those two).
3. Blacklist (Had it some more minor details such as laptops working like CT, better writing and a few of those forced action missions were not there, I'd prefer it to CT. Both Special Missions HQ and Gitmo were outrageous infiltrations along the lines of CIA HQ or LAX, but unfortunately Special Missions HQ suffered from some bad writing and a poor attempt at a homage to Presidential Palace. And Site F was plain old amazing)
4. SAR (It has CIA HQ and Presidential Palace, 'nuff said. It's a great game with some incredibly atmospheric missions, but you can feel it's dated. It still stands up to many games today, though, specially in terms of atmosphere)
5. Conviction (I have many, many issues with it. But I keep coming back for Deniable Ops. That's undoubtedly one of the most fun experiences I've had in gaming. Unfortunately the main story doesn't stack up to that side mode. Kinda like RE4 and Mercenaries Mode, except RE4 was a more solid game on its own right).
6. DA PS360 (It has some missions I absolutely love as the Cozumel Cruiser and Shanghai. Unfortunately, some elements feel like a step-back such as the traffic light detection system and level design wasn't as strong as other games in the series overall. I also tend to find it feels stiffer than previous games with some not as responsive controls, which hurt the experience)

Sam:Pretend I'm Harry Tubb.
Guard: Who?
Sam:I'm a heavily armed and very irritable heating engineer. Now tell me what i have to do to shut off that fan...

Rugterwyper32
05-01-2014, 11:22 PM
Sam:Pretend I'm Harry Tubb.
Guard: Who?
Sam:I'm a heavily armed and very irritable heating engineer. Now tell me what i have to do to shut off that fan...

Harry Tuttle, actually

http://academic.depauw.edu/aevans_web/HONR101-02/WebPages/Fall%202007/Kate%20W/Brazil%20the%20third/images/tuttle%20away!.jpg

LuckyBide
05-01-2014, 11:36 PM
1. DA old-gen
2. DA new-gen
3. CT
4. SAR
5. PT
6. Blacklist
7. Conviction

DA new-gen was a great reboot, I think players don't appreciate it at its right value.
It was opening a great way for the franchise with choices, daylight missions, more realism and an awesome emotional story.
Conviction 2007 was following the same way but unfortunately Ubi left it. I'm sure the franchise still could be able to compete with MGS if they didn't leave it.

Weagles_Fan
05-02-2014, 02:35 AM
After long term testing of Blacklist I came to a conclusion, and I think I don't have to separate games only, but also game modes(sp/coop only). Here it goes:

1. Splinter Cell Chaos Theory => Great Story, amazing characters, Great gameplay (for the time), most variety of envrionment/enemy interactions and most "living and breathing world" feeling of the whole franchise
2. Splinter Cell Chaos Theory Coop => About the same as above with the addition of great coop gameplay and cool coop moves. Less sandboxy, therefore not as high as CT.
3. Splinter Cell Conviction Coop/D-Ops => A good Coop story, and (for the possibilties based on the gameplay they could work with) very good gameplay. D-Ops highly replayable, and even the Coop Campaign is moderately replayable with 2 likable characters, a very Espionage-esque story and nice maps. Number 3 mainly because of replayability.
4. Splinter Cell SAR => Feels outdated, but very sophisticated for it's time, a great story, good characters, unique atmosphere
5a. Splinter Cell Blacklist => Singleplayer is definitely the gem of the game, despite the F.A.S.'s, mediocre story, flat characters, but good new additions (customization, big variety of gadgets) and some really good missions among it (London (except the last part), Gitmo (too short though), Site F (to name a few)). And if the game actually gives you freedom and possibilities, and lets you play the way you want (it does not do that often enough) in terms of how to fulfill objectives and get to the point you have to get, then it's really good. Still lacks interrogations and a lot of environmental interactions though, as well as a more "living, breathing world" (emails, conversations, news, fleshing out the world you move in).
5b. Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow => Characters definitely better than SCB, story is on one level with SCB I think, maybe a little better, but I never liked it. Some amazing missions (Train (too short), Submarine (unique), Television Free Indonesia, LAX), good gameplay and reasonable improvements in comparison with SAR (even though story is not as good as SAR)
6. Splinter Cell Double Agent => Definitely not as good at the rest. Good legacy gameplay, but the story and the scenario lack certain things, level design mediocre, despite nice visuals. Nice as a change, but not really comparable and one of my least favorites despite the interesting undercover theme and moral dilemmas.
7. Splinter Cell Blacklist Coop => Interesting story at first, but the gameplay is way too "exotic" and dictated, the only "awesome" missions are Missile Plant and Abandoned City (with the latter having a not very nice ending section), the coop-moves while cool in animation are mostly used at places where you do not need them, so they are useless most of the time, also the comment are not really good ("Teamwork, I love it"), and the overall story, while the scenario sounds interesting, was just not that great. The gameplay was the main problem here though. More forced than Conviction Coop gameplay. Good when not forced, the problem is like I said to many F.A.S. (Forced Action Sequences) and exotic moments.
8. Splinter Cell Conviction => Obviously. Messed up story, contradicted lore, changed personalities, cliche villain, action-oriented (a chopper, really?) gameplay and way too short story.

SP side only, not having played any MP until Blacklist, I have them in basically the same order. CT, SAR, BL, DA (oldgen) PT, Conviction.

yghtim
05-02-2014, 10:29 PM
I think that pandora tommorow and chaos theory had the best campign no question about it.

Conviction was embaresing we dont even have to talk about that one...

Blacklist was a cool game but its not so "splinter cell'y"
the multiplayer would have taken the top for me, but sense a spy can shoot down a merc in like a second, it feels more like call of duty than anything else.

The best multiplayer by my opinion may sound crazy but it was actuly Double agent... why? because it had the best feeling, it was different from other games!

You had a limited lifes, that made you consentrate more and not be a fool, not like blacklist when its more a battlefield than a sneaking game.

The way to kill a merc in DA was to come up behind him, just like in the campign of the older games, not just simply run around and shoot them down like in blacklist...
Double agent's multiplayer was very sneaky so it felt just like the campign but you play with friends, agains other players. Double agent is the only game i have ever skiped school for ever.

Blacklist is cool but its not splinter cell, more a regular shooting game. if the spy only could use pistol or teh stun gun i would not care but mp5... really?

I want the old splinter cell's back. if there is anyone on this forum who wants to play double agent with me, add me on uplay "yghtim"

Thats my opinion cheers! :D

yghtim
05-02-2014, 11:35 PM
My opinion only,

Better Splinter Cell? Chaos Theory
Better Game? Blacklist

i can agree that chaos theory is the best splinter cell
But i cant say that its a is a better game, i rather play chaos theory both multiplayer and campign

stil i like double agents multiplayer most

Daredevil_Diver
05-04-2014, 05:59 PM
Harry Tuttle. Oh my bad. didn't even know he was referring to an actual character. Ha. That makes it that much funnier.

Daredevil_Diver
05-04-2014, 06:08 PM
1. DA old-gen
2. DA new-gen
3. CT
4. SAR
5. PT
6. Blacklist
7. Conviction

DA new-gen was a great reboot, I think players don't appreciate it at its right value.
It was opening a great way for the franchise with choices, daylight missions, more realism and an awesome emotional story.
Conviction 2007 was following the same way but unfortunately Ubi left it. I'm sure the franchise still could be able to compete with MGS if they didn't leave it.

I completely agree. They should go back to it.

yghtim
05-04-2014, 09:23 PM
For ****ing hell remove the ****ing combat spies!!!!!!!!!!! This is not splinter cell anymore this is ****ing call of duty!!!
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease give us back splinter cell, like the good old days when merc where merc and spies where spies! I get mroe kills as spy than merc!!!!!!! What have you done with splinter cells butifull spirit?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

Dome500
05-05-2014, 01:27 AM
Every time I see such a post as the above I ask myself which damn game developer might be the one against whom this tactic with all the swearing and screaming was so effective that people - despite seeing the contrary for years - seem to think it still works and that developers would give a rats *** about any crying, screaming brute who comes in here and instead of giving good criticism and reasonable suggestions just starts with the caps-lock on of course to name every swear word and any expression-equivalent of real-life-screaming they can find to put it in here.

:D

But what the hell, I'm just glad I'm not one of them :cool:

NDCRP
06-09-2015, 08:00 PM
They were abysmal, and it was intentional.
Saying you have no problem with it is like saying you have no problem with a car that only has 1st gear.
You are not incorrect, because there is nothing to be incorrect about, but if your remark was to imply quality, or substance, then you are most certainly mistaken.

For the most part, Blacklist is a fully functional 3rd person shooter.
Everything with Chaos Theory's shooting mechanics were angled to deter the player from using them, especially to engage the AI.

To answer the asker's question, no, CT does not offer anything even close to the shooting mechanics of Blacklist.
CT offers a function, over-the-shoulder reticule, only when your weapon is drawn, and your movement speed is crippled, you have no accuracy while moving, and the weapons themselves are hopeless parodies of real guns. It allows you to sit static in the shadows and take out lights or brains, while in an undetected state.

One thing Chaos Theory does do, better than any other game I've ever played, and that ambidextrous aiming.
Blacklist, needs this, and other shooters need to measure up.

Wasn't only a measure to deter the player, but was also a stylistic choice, which was coherent with the concept and the world conceived for the franchise:
In real life aiming to someone requires certain skills and the ability to react quickly if the one with the gun is planning to shoot at more than one person at a time.
In real life no one is so quick like the player character in blacklist, no matter how good he is at shooting people.
Sam Fisher was deadly and frail as his enemies.
Splinter Cell was about being stealthy in a realistic enviroment and not only realistic visually.
Now is about being an Uncharted rip-off with a bland militaristic coat of paint on it, making the new games not true to the franchise foundations.
That's why the aiming is good for a TPS, but not for a game that is part of the Splinter Cell franchise.
I hope the next game is gong to be coherent to the original idea behind the franchise.

LoneSpymaster
06-10-2015, 12:13 AM
Wasn't only a measure to deter the player, but was also a stylistic choice, which was coherent with the concept and the world conceived for the franchise:
In real life aiming to someone requires certain skills and the ability to react quickly if the one with the gun is planning to shoot at more than one person at a time.
In real life no one is so quick like the player character in blacklist, no matter how good he is at shooting people.
Sam Fisher was deadly and frail as his enemies.
Splinter Cell was about being stealthy in a realistic enviroment and not only realistic visually.
Now is about being an Uncharted rip-off with a bland militaristic coat of paint on it, making the new games not true to the franchise foundations.
That's why the aiming is good for a TPS, but not for a game that is part of the Splinter Cell franchise.
I hope the next game is gong to be coherent to the original idea behind the franchise.
This
I agree in some things except:
1.I do not consider that is an uncharted rip-off it is different in anyway.
2.In real life no one is so quick like the player character in blacklist, no matter how good he is at shooting people.
Actually the CAR (Center Axis Relock) works on real life.you can give 2 shots,reload and give another 2 shots,in 2 seconds.

Now talking about the games is really hard to say what is my favorite,can't stop playing all of them,except one blacklist.
The glitchy and hack multiplayer community that has the game is just sick,i cannot tolerate being kill for spawn killers or glitchers.
SP,wasn't great....good missions and the spanish version of the game save some Sam Fisher personality,what i actually hate was the story a "Serious Angry Sam Fisher" s*cks.
Difference between,Conviction and Blacklist Angry Fisher is that Fisher was angry with everyone,but still funny and sarcastic in that time,Blacklist on the other hand was mad with everyone and angry,and not sarcasm or being fun.
I don't now if it is because Eric Johnson or the writters....the dissapereance of Michael Ironside f*ck up all the Fisher personality,not the voice not anything just Sam Fisher personality is what makes the game different to other games,it dosent take anything THAT serious...but i still hope that Fisher will be better made on SC7 really hope for that.

NDCRP
08-04-2015, 04:55 AM
This
I agree in some things except:
1.I do not consider that is an uncharted rip-off it is different in anyway.
2.In real life no one is so quick like the player character in blacklist, no matter how good he is at shooting people.
Actually the CAR (Center Axis Relock) works on real life.you can give 2 shots,reload and give another 2 shots,in 2 seconds.

Now talking about the games is really hard to say what is my favorite,can't stop playing all of them,except one blacklist.
The glitchy and hack multiplayer community that has the game is just sick,i cannot tolerate being kill for spawn killers or glitchers.
SP,wasn't great....good missions and the spanish version of the game save some Sam Fisher personality,what i actually hate was the story a "Serious Angry Sam Fisher" s*cks.
Difference between,Conviction and Blacklist Angry Fisher is that Fisher was angry with everyone,but still funny and sarcastic in that time,Blacklist on the other hand was mad with everyone and angry,and not sarcasm or being fun.
I don't now if it is because Eric Johnson or the writters....the dissapereance of Michael Ironside f*ck up all the Fisher personality,not the voice not anything just Sam Fisher personality is what makes the game different to other games,it dosent take anything THAT serious...but i still hope that Fisher will be better made on SC7 really hope for that.

My guess is the writing+the acting.
Richard Dansky doesn't know subtlety and Johnson is just a MEH actor with MEH acting skills, and his age was the wrongest thing of all. They should have cast someone around the age of the character and with a deeper voice.
And even I can do a better Fisher voice, and I'm 27 YO.

grunindan
07-04-2017, 07:07 PM
Blacklist has:

awful controls (A button makes you run, jump over obstacles, change your position, open a door, hack stuff, press a button and climb on a wall. Better use a keyboard) and cover system (you just run from cover to cover like a ping pong ball. And die 'cause my God is it hard to aim on your next cover correctly);
too many lights;
cameras that have flashlights;
no grab/infiltration;
no knife (CQC doesn't count);
MARK AND ****ING EXECUTE IN MY *** (only on difficulties lower than Perfectionist);
ENEMY ****ING MARKING (looks like Ubisoft LOVES marking. They put it in new games. Example: Rainbow Six: Siege);
no jump;
sonar goggles that are actually thermal goggles but they CAN SEE THROUGH WALLS (if you don't play on Perfectionist but why would you not play on it?) and lag a lot (upgrades fix that issue as much as possible. Thanks, upgrades!);
no badass lasers (only those that are made for kiddies);
these ******bags with thermal vision that I can't freaking avoid (they can see through walls like a freaking Superman and I can't 'cause I'm playing on a badass Perfectionist. Cheaters) and kill with guns properly (I always take my dear pistol and sniper rifle WITH SUPPRESSORS that make them useless in combat. Gladly I always carry a mine and a camera to blow some stuff for fun. Not for going on a killing spree 'cause I'm a panther. Can sometimes be a ghost);
no panther points for blowing stuff up (come on! It's just a little bit noisy! I CAN avoid these dummies!);
bad 3D models (Coul looks like a drug addict. Or is he?);
loud cpver switches that noone hears... for some reason (seriously, Fisher, why are you so loud?);
no lockpicking;
disgusting night vision (I was just mind-blown how awesome and crystal-clear CT's NV is);
lots of useless weapons;
Coul's missions;
Nicholas Cage playing Sammy;
Grim in a bad mood;
great thermal vision coloring;
awesome costumisation;
SvM;
Grim's missions;
Cobin's missions;
co-op (if you're into that kind of thing);
goggles!
a plane menu;
playstyles that give you points and medals;
some good maps;
terrorists!
terrorist murdering!
terrorist avoiding!
terrorist throwing!
dead terrorist hiding!
Perfectionist!
tear gas;
tear gas;
TEAR FREAKING GAS!
a cute little drone;
sticky stuff (cameras, noisemakers, mines... C4);
a taser;
a crossbow with some sleeping gas;
a sleeping gas;
Boobs Grim in a good mood and a sexy voice (yeah, she has a good mood sometimes) ;
mark mercy or execute options (yeah, like in GTA but with BADASS CAMERA ANGLES);
Cobin!
black market stuff (mostly useless but hey! Bleck market stuff! And there's a lot of that stuff! Wish it was useful. Maybe it will be in the next game (if there'll be any);
lots of nationalities;
3rd echelon stuff;
nice menus;
a uniform is back!
a radar that shows... where... your enemy looks... How does this thing even work?
footprint tracing;
chainkillings;
a gameplay that makes you a sniper even if you don't have a left eye and eye lens (that's right! That's me);
a unique atmosphere.



Blacklist is a good game but it lacks some cool stuff as you can see here. CT's definetely better (sorry, BL fans).