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View Full Version : Weapons appear in combat attack ! please READ ! and vote ! :)



Shadowmare1
08-27-2013, 08:31 PM
Hello everyone,

I do not know why the new games do not utilize the experience of old games like "Stonekeep" who appears where the weapon trust in game, can you guys add this graphics in the game? believe will greatly improve the game to realist, please UBISOFT game deployers .. read this.. we just want better game oldschool but some things can be even better.

thx so much

Beastman666m
08-27-2013, 08:44 PM
i think i like. But then you would have to do it for everything - all or nothing: arrows, bolts, sling Stones, each spells, each type of weapon (sword, axe, etc.).

Shadowmare1
08-27-2013, 08:48 PM
I know but its not hard word today fot game deployers they need inovated take ideas from another oldshcols games, ,that make game Richer... not poor all same crap ir better gracphics, if some day they hear us they goin BOOM,, best game ever..The most bad think its dont hear old players. who have same experience from years of playing. who want more..

:) i hope they make that...

SadFerret
08-28-2013, 09:43 AM
I think that works better with one character instead of a full party, honestly.

HEF2011
08-28-2013, 03:20 PM
I think that works better with one character instead of a full party, honestly.


Somewhat...

The original post referenced Stonekeep, which was a party based role-playing game but the way weapons (ranged or melee) appeared was during combat; in the foreground, on your left side you'd see the blade of a sword take a swipe at a enemy creature or on your right, a swing from a hammer. These are from members in your party.
Traditionally, the most you'd see in the earlier Might & Magic games from weapons is the arrows launching from bows (or crossbows). Spell attacks were shown but you'd never see melee weapons appear even though characters in your party were equipped with a sword. It seemed to be acceptable then. Were there any known complaints at the time?

So, how would something like that be done today?

Is it really important to actually show the melee weapons in action in a modern Might & Magic game???

WarBaby2
08-28-2013, 03:30 PM
Somewhat...
Is it really important to actually show the melee weapons in action in a modern Might & Magic game???

Ahm, no, I don't think so... we already have the hitting effect and the arrows, I guess that's enough.

HEF2011
08-28-2013, 03:52 PM
Ahm, no, I don't think so... we already have the hitting effect and the arrows, I guess that's enough.



I didn't think so, either.

I can 'imagine' that each party member is hitting an enemy in combat with a sword or mace. Not everything in video games have to be so literal.;)

Maomor
08-28-2013, 04:29 PM
I tried this "visible swinging weapons" in a game demo concept some years ago. I could simulate concurrent attacks of 3 party members at the same time on the screen. On paper it looked great (weapons on left and right and middle of the screen swinging), but when the real implementation was started, issues showed up:

- weapons crossed each other when they were swung at the same time - looked really bad. You'd never imagine how much space is required to swing a single weapon.... all the screenspace!
- much too less space on the screen. If you have a screen ratio other than 16:9 you'll only see part of weapons
- Stressfull: if you had 3 weapons at the same time swinging it was stressful to look at, and within short time you couldn't enjoy the game any longer.

The problem was the concurrency - but what about turn-based attacks (show swinging weapons one after the other)?

1) You would need to create different kinds of attack animations for each weapon. Why? Because it looks very bland and boring if you always see the same animation for a weapon type. Also you must use custom weapon models for each weapons, otherwise it looks pointless. This is a lot of work...
2) You must always wait until the weapon animation is finished! This is the thing which finally kills the feature. Now in MMX you can press 4 times the "Attack" button very fast like [A-A-A-A], but imagine you must wait until the weapon animation is finished? Then it becomes: [A-pause-A-pause-A-pause-A]. While at the beginning the swinging weapons look awesome, it will soon become annoyance due to the waiting times - even if they are only half a second!

The option to have visible weapons is tempting, but not possible in a decent way. Not when controlling a party and persisting on a decent speed. In fact if you insist on having visible weapons - the animation times must be very fast in order to stay convenient for the player - so fast that you could hardly see the weapons - only a silhouette of the weapon. And then we are exactly where we are now. Attack silhouettes or attack-trails (like in Grimrock). Because you can't see your 3D weapon anyways within the fast animation.


(Besides: the weapon animations in Stonekeep were the cheapest ever. They were like needles coming from the bottom, until halfway to the top, and then returning back. Swinging? Fail. Different weapons? Fail. A spear and a sword showed the same weapon. An effect like that would just look ugly and pointless nowadays).

HEF2011
08-28-2013, 04:51 PM
I tried this "visible swinging weapons" in a game demo concept some years ago. I could simulate concurrent attacks of 3 party members at the same time on the screen. On paper it looked great (weapons on left and right and middle of the screen swinging), but when the implementation showed the issues:

- weapons crossed each other when they were swung at the same time - looked really bad. You'd never imagine how much space is required to swing a single weapon.... all the screenspace!
- much too less space on the screen. If you have a screen ratio other than 16:9 you'll only see part of weapons
- Stressfull: if you had 3 weapons at the same time swinging it was stressful to look at, and within short time you couldn't enjoy the game any longer.

The problem was the concurrency - but what about turn-based (show swinging weapons one after the other)?

1) You would need to create different kinds of attack animations for each weapon. Why? Because it looks very bland and boring if you always see the same animation for a weapon type. Also you must use custom weapon models for each weapons, otherwise it looks pointless. This is a lot of work...
2) You must always wait until the weapon animation is finished! This is the thing which finally kills the feature. Now in MMX you can press 4 times the "Attack" button very fast like [A-A-A-A], but imagine now you must wait until the weapon animation is finished: [A-pause-A-pause-A-pause-A]. Your own attack turns will slow down to an unbearable turtle.

The option to have visible weapons is tempting, but not possible in a decent way. Not when controlling a party and persisting on a decent speed.



Hm.

I thought so, too. I don't have a problem with Might & Magic's system.
The combat Stonekeep would show visible weapons but wasn't turn-based. The action in the combat was closer to 'pause & play' than anything; for instance, you can use the mouse cursor to 'pause' gameplay when it interacted with other objects and resume 'play' when the cursor is used to execute an action (to throw something) or drop something.
The attack animations for each weapon would look like a flurry of attacks with no clear sequence of order.

It was a very quirky control system and it was novel.

Maomor
08-28-2013, 05:39 PM
Hmmm, now thinking about it again, there is one way it could work: if it uses the Phase-based combat system of Wizardry 8:

This simply means that when your party has its turn, you select the action of each character before the combat round for the whole party starts. And then during the combat round all actions from your party are executed one after the other, therefore weapon animations are played one after the other. This way also the situation of "pressing attack buttons fast" does not even exist.

The disadvantages are that you must select the character's attack sometimes by guesswork, it seems less interactive, and combat itself seems slower due to the longer pause. I don't know which is better... basically the MMX attack system seems more attractive, because it seems faster and you have full control at any time. Maybe it's still possible to show weapons and have the animations fast enough to be convenient for consecutive button presses (the action could just be queued). So yeah... I must correct myself. It might be possible to show weapons using the MMX system.

Shadowmare1
08-28-2013, 06:40 PM
Wizardry 8 rocks.. i love that game a lot races and they speak in combat, i think might magic got a lot thinks who can inprove de game just not get off the old games ideas who bring all to this time.
Well i dont think is hard show a weapon swing.. or maybe change how looks the attack maybe put better animation "blood " and can see hero to put armor and items. in inventory. i allways think if goin produce new game need be better it from old ideas just mix it, get good ideas and take of bad ones,
IF .they mix Stonekeep , Wizardry 8 ideas and put in MMX goin be best one, since i play games in AMIGA like Dungeon Master all oldshcool games have good ideas, just put in work in new ones..
i never say never, if they want they goin do better.. things , like more races, classes, cool combat, and view hero it armor when you equip window, all tools to create a game a lot easyers.. from oldschool games its not a HELL make blood, put better animation , make enemy looks hurt abnd this things.

thx a lot

Shadowmare1
08-28-2013, 06:51 PM
Well, like i say i never say never cause the tools today help to do better games, dont need appear weapon but why not change animations make better ones, make blood, make enemy looks HURT, and in inventory make put armor on hero, what about more races and class ? the Might magic world its to RICH to make just simples RPG class who all know, i just ask to more, cause i want see better game since i realy oldschool gamer,, from Dungeon master before Might magic..

- get old ideas and create better to us fun
- Check Wizardry 8 - they hero keep speak in combat that fun - a lot races - and class
- Stonekeep you can equip your hero..its just not hard to make that, so you can imagine more how thye look even if not appear in game for sure
- Enemys it low life appear ..all cut, and broke.


thx a lot

NoOB._sai.B0T
01-16-2014, 02:58 PM
Good idea!!!
animation strikes different weapons can have a different color is 1st.
Critical strike should splashing blood, and blow animation painted red, for example.
if successful block labeled "BLOCK" appears shield.
during evasion camera quickly turned sideways example
I think it would be very good.