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View Full Version : This... Turn Based gameplay will be the downfall of this game....



DLC200
08-25-2013, 01:43 AM
Okey i tried my hardest i gave it a good 48 hours worth of playtime but... i just cant i really cant.... this turn based movement system is just mind numbingly boreing.... i know im not the smartest person in the world but by god playing this just makes me feel really stupid....

its so dam easy requires no skill and no brains at all...

also i hate how there is a mob right there infront of me but i cant hit it even though im in clear sight of it.... but its because its at an angle ¬_¬'

now for all you who are going to white knight this game and say how its really awesome and amazing and requires skill to play... just stop....

there is no skill needed to play this because you are given a rest to make and time your next move....the mob just sits there like... herp...derp...so umm.... yeah....gona hit me yet?

to me... thats not realistic at all... if you was back in medevil times... you think a enemy is gona stop there wait for you to be ready before he attacks you? no....

now compare it to if this was a free movement game.... i would love to see all you people who say....... "this game needs skill because its turn based"...... play this game if it was free movement....

Yeah try cast a spell while an enemy is rushing you and another enemy is behind you and archers behind its back....and you only have a split second to make a life or death choice.... this is what i was hoping with this game.... i like adrenaline filled life or death choices that you only have a fraction of a second to react... those are the real fun... thats how i remember might and magic....

my fav game ever and i still play it is M&M 7.... i loved how i would be attacking someone then outa nowhere a bunch of goblins will come and jump me from behind and i would have to retreat and run away or die... i liked how you only had a few seconds of choice at certain times... i liked fighting a dragon and dodging its fireballs because i knew one hit from it could kill me... now thats skill.....

Im sorry but i will be having a refund until this game has the option for free movement.... if it dont... then i can see this game dieing... really fast.... with a score of 1/10 in every gamer mag....

the only people i could imagine who would enjoy this are the people who are either braindead... cant multi task.... or have the slowest reflexes ever.... i like to multi task... i like to go fast... i like to make quick decisions.... this game.... has none of that..... i want the M&M 7 style combat back....

Petesalzl
08-25-2013, 02:42 AM
you get that youre totally missing the point.
its supposed to be old school turn based rpg. that's the whole point of the game. it has nothing to do with reflexes or realistic enemy AI or anything like that.

HEF2011
08-25-2013, 03:11 AM
Suuuurre, This... Turn Based gameplay will be the downfall of this game.... sure.:)

Kalthean
08-25-2013, 03:12 AM
Just like turn based was the downfall of Legend of Grimrock?

AviramG
08-25-2013, 05:03 AM
I haven't actually tried this game yet, but if its mechanics are different to M&M5, M&M6, then I really don't want to even try. I wanted more of the same, that's the only thing that pulled me :)

Also, if there's none of that certain... WH40K style twist in the storyline towards the end, like in those good oldies, then I'm not interested either :)

abcdefgqwerty
08-25-2013, 05:22 AM
I honestly think this game has a bigger audience following MM 6 then the older games. I also wanted this to be like MM 6 I mean just almost exactly following that game with a modern engine would be a road to success. I think MM 6 could be successful today if you kept the option for real time combat or turn based and maybe tried to make real time a little more forgiving.

Maomor
08-25-2013, 09:04 AM
The movement is not the downfall of the game, but it clearly divides the community. This is not ideal. I believe it would not have put the community apart so much if they went for MM6 successor.

I still don't understand why they claimed the majority wanted "tile based". Maybe they mixed it up and the majority wanted "turn based". But Turn-based does not automatically mean tile-based. Every poll I look the community wanted about 30-40% Might & Magic 1-5, and 60-70% Might & Magic 6-9

From an outside point of view it does not make sense, why they backed a weaker horse.

NalimX
08-25-2013, 09:10 AM
Im sorry but i will be having a refund until this game has the option for free movement.... if it dont... then i can see this game dieing... really fast.... with a score of 1/10 in every gamer mag....


This game is clearly stated as a turn-based rpg and delivers exactly what is promised. It would be nice too know what makes you think you were entitled to a refund.

GigaFather
08-25-2013, 09:10 AM
Didn't they explain all of this in dev blog already?

Maomor
08-25-2013, 10:18 AM
Didn't they explain all of this in dev blog already?

They did.

But they missed an essential point:
The package of Xeen is in itself consistent. The package of Grimrock is in itself consistent. The grid movement was "natural" in an environment where everything was square-like, blocky, edged, and angular. Everything was a systematical grid, looked like a grid and played like a grid.

The style was coherent, and the limitations didn't look weird.

But in MMX you don't have this coherent style. You have a mixture. A mixture of natural, softly shaped landscapes / architecture, but brutally bound to a completely static grid system. It's almost a new genre. A genre which tries to combine 2 totally different gameplay systems. Not different - but *contrary* systems. And this is destroys the immersion. Everyone with a sense for aesthetics feels that it is wrong. And that's also the reason why it seems strange when you can't attack someone standing upfront, but 1 tile to the left. It is all a consequence of merging 2 contrary styles together.

Didn't the developers realize this? I mean such fallacies can be essential for the commercial success of a product...:confused:

znork
08-25-2013, 10:25 AM
Okey i tried my hardest i gave it a good 48 hours worth of playtime but... i just cant i really cant.... this turn based movement system is just mind numbingly boreing.... i know im not the smartest person in the world but by god playing this just makes me feel really stupid....

its so dam easy requires no skill and no brains at all...

the only people i could imagine who would enjoy this are the people who are either braindead... cant multi task.... or have the slowest reflexes ever.... i like to multi task... i like to go fast... i like to make quick decisions.... this game.... has none of that..... i want the M&M 7 style combat back....

Tnx for trying to make sence and posting you opnions. the pation ofthis comuntey is the main reason i find so cool beeing part of it.

I also loved h7 the best might and magic game ever in my eyes and many agree. But in my eyas it would hve been even wourse for me if they rembade that game badly. and withe the sucvses of x legacy we can start to dream about a mm7 reimagination in ashan.

So if i was you i would rejoice the succsess of legacy keep playing mm7 and trying to find good arguments for making mm XI open movment:D

deadraque
08-25-2013, 11:01 AM
I have to go with the OP on this. You know I don't want to argue with people I just can't feel it going well for the game right now.

And you know what I feel sad. Very sad because I was so happy that MM series came back and if this end like a bashing D3 disaster there will be very little hope we ever see a MM11. Most of players want a mm6-9 game back not the 1-5, when I bought the whole series back on gog I just couldn't play 1-5 anymore they feel to old, games have evolved. Many grid freaks each time bring Legend of grimrock back on each time we say there is something wrong with the movement. You Liked LOG, good for you I didn't, it was fun for a few hours very boring after that and not enjoyable. They only sold 600000 not millions, and how much of those bought it and stopped it after a few hours. Sure some love it but MM6 is not LOG. The game is so flat and boring. The good thing about that game is the community that creates many mods, that's probably the great thing that keeps the game alive. Perhaps modding in MMX will be also great and could save some things.
But it's not just the movement it is the skills like ID, Repair, Alchemy and so on, I never liked alchemy but that was the greatness of MM games you had so many freedom on that, if you wanted to play a certain way you could, with so many things getting ripped out it starts to look very grim.

I remember a certain D3, many people wanted to see a D2 game back, yep they sold 7 million as everyone was expecting that, MANY FANBOYS protected the game like the holy grail, same is happening here. But hey you know what blizzard admitted finally that things like Auction House killed the game or the non existing leveling and skill weird use. So You want to protect the way it is and not listening to the majority of having a 6-9 game like back. Good go on but you gone hit a wall and after a year have a few fanboys left. It's like the same endless discussion that Iphones are better then samsung but iphone now only sells 35 m and samsung 80 m of them but still keep saying NOOO Iphone is the ultimate better one and then they hit a wall in the end.
Sorry for that non topic comparison but i see the same brainless fanboys (like D3 and Iphone) that just pretend the game is perfect while it is bugged as hell and is ripped all the way and doing a 20 year step back after finally bringing it back after 11 years.

The only thing I want to make clear is that I only want the best for MMX and hope to have the greatest enjoyment like i did on previous game, I am not here to bash it, but it's taking a way against most people's will.

Aeon1977
08-25-2013, 11:19 AM
the only people i could imagine who would enjoy this are the people who are either braindead... cant multi task.... or have the slowest reflexes ever....

Go play a ****ing shooter if you want to pose with your reflexes and skills, kid! This is a classical turn-based role playing (!) game, not a fantasy fps! I´m getting sick of people like you bashing others (calling them braindead etc) just because you are not getting the point what MMX is supposed to be.

znork
08-25-2013, 11:46 AM
@deadraque i find you diablo refrence lacking. mmx stays true to the older version of mm whiles d3 dumbed everying down. And mm dosent h 7 million fans i would asume 50k would be more relevant number.(wilde gussing her)

mmx is like opera most people think its jsut a wommen screaming on stage but the few find it most butifull music in the world. MMX never was ment to be a game for everyone. an it could nerver satisfay all the fans of mm becuse none of them like the same thing. if you have 10 mm fans they want 20 diffrant things.

In other words its valid not likeing the game and positng it. But the d3 refranse was a bit of in my eyes.

dudedavid
08-25-2013, 01:36 PM
They did.

But they missed an essential point:
The package of Xeen is in itself consistent. The package of Grimrock is in itself consistent. The grid movement was "natural" in an environment where everything was square-like, blocky, edged, and angular. Everything was a systematical grid, looked like a grid and played like a grid.

The style was coherent, and the limitations didn't look weird.

But in MMX you don't have this coherent style. You have a mixture. A mixture of natural, softly shaped landscapes / architecture, but brutally bound to a completely static grid system. It's almost a new genre. A genre which tries to combine 2 totally different gameplay systems. Not different - but *contrary* systems. And this is destroys the immersion. Everyone with a sense for aesthetics feels that it is wrong. And that's also the reason why it seems strange when you can't attack someone standing upfront, but 1 tile to the left. It is all a consequence of merging 2 contrary styles together.

Didn't the developers realize this? I mean such fallacies can be essential for the commercial success of a product...:confused:

I agree with you.
When I first played I felt something "weird".
Now after 2 hours spent, I can assure the final product will be unplayable if nothing is done or corrected.
There is a world where you could move in a smooth way and you just can't do it.
You try to shot to a group of enemies and it's like playing cheese.

Dev, please, THIS IS NOT HEROES OF MIGHT AND MAGIC !!! We want the old school back but not this way.

Eichhornmann
08-25-2013, 02:02 PM
to all the turn based-critics: face it, as a member of the "Need for Call of Crysis 15"-generation, you're incompatible to classic gaming style. the reason why games like that didn't appear for a long time, are people like you

VormulacUnsleep
08-25-2013, 02:27 PM
They did.

But they missed an essential point:
The package of Xeen is in itself consistent. The package of Grimrock is in itself consistent. The grid movement was "natural" in an environment where everything was square-like, blocky, edged, and angular. Everything was a systematical grid, looked like a grid and played like a grid.

The style was coherent, and the limitations didn't look weird.

But in MMX you don't have this coherent style. You have a mixture. A mixture of natural, softly shaped landscapes / architecture, but brutally bound to a completely static grid system. It's almost a new genre. A genre which tries to combine 2 totally different gameplay systems. Not different - but *contrary* systems. And this is destroys the immersion. Everyone with a sense for aesthetics feels that it is wrong. And that's also the reason why it seems strange when you can't attack someone standing upfront, but 1 tile to the left. It is all a consequence of merging 2 contrary styles together.

This sounds more like an art problem than a gameplay problem. Based on what you've said the grid system isn't represented clearly graphically (which is not to suggest that we need to have a grid superimposed visually on the world). I'm happy to finally see an argument based around internal consistency regarding this game. I'm on the grid based side of the fence (not because it's what I prefer but because I don't think it needs to be changed) but having that system be better represented in the world is never a bad thing.

Mardn.seiner
08-25-2013, 02:45 PM
I love the "grid-based" movement...that's why i'm here:)

But I have to agree to Maomor...it feels weird in the world of MMX -.-
There is lots of "fake" stuff just lying on the floor/hanging from walls you can't interact with. (the wagon/dead guys in front of Castle Portmeyron for example)
The containers that you actually can loot are outlined and look different, even the camera get's focused on it. So there's no need to "explore" the fake stuff.
You even can't look on the floor manually AND click something, because the camera snaps back.
But that's what I wanna do...I want to search for containers by clicking on everything that looks interesting...that's dungeon crawling, isn't it?

VormulacUnsleep
08-25-2013, 02:47 PM
I love the "grid-based" movement...that's why i'm here:)

But I have to agree to Maomor...it feels weird in the world of MMX -.-
There is lots of "fake" stuff just lying on the floor/hanging from walls you can't interact with. (the wagon/dead guys in front of Castle Portmeyron for example)
The containers that you actually can loot are outlined and look different, even the camera get's focused on it. So there's no need to "explore" the fake stuff.
You even can't look on the floor manually AND click something, because the camera snaps back.
But that's what I wanna do...I want to search for containers by clicking on everything that looks interesting...that's dungeon crawling, isn't it?

Having greater interaction with the gameworld would definitely be a nice addition.

DefianceUK
08-25-2013, 03:14 PM
I played MM from 3, wasn't happy with the games from 7+ but played them anyway. Couldn't finish 9. For years I've had to sit and watch other people play real-time games cos I die in the first 10 seconds when I play. Maybe I'm brain dead, maybe I can't multitask, I definitely don't have super-fast reactions. I like turn-based games, it means I can actually play them. Not bothered about graphics either, as long as the game-play is balanced, and the story is good, I'll get my money's worth. Bring it on Ubisoft, I'm an old-school die-hard MM fan.

HorrorScopeX
08-25-2013, 03:37 PM
OP: Wow you've played it for 48 hours and then proclaim in not good enough. If I didn't like something, I'd say 5hours would be my max, but you must have played through this demo many times to ring up 48. Just sayin, that is a lot of time to realize it's not going to work for you. Hey we all have our opinions.

I do agree with one thing in mentioned, some of the angles and item placement in general make it tricky for my brain, is it aligned to my grid view or not. It looks like I should be able to shoot at this, but off grid alignment. It looks like I should be able to go around this, but can't. It looks like I should be able to open this barrel, but not 100% aligned. Some item placement to my eyes looks like they are between squares which causes some brain grief. My suggestion would be to make things more yes they align, no they don't align in actual 3D view. However once I started using the mini-map a lot for navigation, it became better.

xfysxbowtie
08-25-2013, 04:14 PM
Just a bunch of whiney Call of Duty kids in here who want freedom of movement and have never enjoyed a game of chess.

Mirae11
08-25-2013, 04:41 PM
When I first heard that it is gonna be turn-based I was disappointed, but after a few hours I dare to say that "it!s not bad". The movement itself is better than I expected, the main issue is with time (15 minutes tile outside? Really?Should be 10 or !5!).

This movement won!t be the downfall. There are two problems coming up with this -
1) There is a lot of people who want turn-based game and tile-based movement.
2) There is much more people who are more comfortable with free-movement and real-time.

I am a MM6-8 fan, but I will buy this if I'll see that the time management was changed (preferably tile from 15 minutes to 5), until that time the game is almost non-playable because of this huge flaw in the basic mechanics and design. Otherwise I'll have a look at it and leave it. And I will buy it because I will hope that the real-time version will come next. Of course in a different and not-that-stupid-hell-of-a-world...

Savatage79
08-25-2013, 04:47 PM
I hate the era of life we are in. I want to go back to the 80s and early 90s so bad. I hate people and their non understanding that there is more to life than a real time combat engine. Its no different than playing chess and making your moves.

God I hate gamers these days outside of all of us old school fans that understand different variety.

Pankratz1980
08-25-2013, 05:05 PM
2) There is much more people who are more comfortable with free-movement and real-time.


The problem with that (EXTREMELY VOCAL) group is two-fold:

a) some of those people are ridiculously close-minded and afraid of change, afraid of the opportunity to try out something drastically different from what they're used to playing - on top of that, their parents forgot to teach them some manners, so they throw a tantrum like a bunch of spoiled teenagers

b) they already have THOUSANDS !!! of other ADHD-friendly games to play, yet desperately try do deny the fans of grid-based cRPGs the experience they've been waiting for for almost TWO DECADES.

Talk about being selfish and entitled.

Savatage79
08-25-2013, 05:10 PM
What I don't understand about the net is this and forums in general, and this is my complaint. For me, I have come to love almost every genre of game. I grew up with pen and paper rpgs, so I took to PC rpgs instantly. I loved your platformers like Mario, and action type games like Zelda...but fell in love with Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior.

As time goes on I love those genres, I love shooters, I love 3rd person action...you name it.

Now I have a larger preference to turn based rpg gaming. But lets say I totally did not like real time rpgs, or action based rpgs....I "wouldn't" go to those games and enter their forums saying that they suck and that turn based is better, because why? What is the point? It brings nothing constructive to the table.

If people don't like turn based, why cant they just move on to the games that they do enjoy? This is basically my biggest gripe.

HorrorScopeX
08-25-2013, 05:22 PM
When I first heard that it is gonna be turn-based I was disappointed, but after a few hours I dare to say that "it!s not bad". The movement itself is better than I expected, the main issue is with time (15 minutes tile outside? Really?Should be 10 or !5!).


Yeah, editing config.txt and setting all Turns to 1 does the trick

minutesPerTurnOutdoor = 1
minutesPerTurnCity = 1
minutesPerTurnDungeon = 1
minutesPerRest = 480

Melnorme1984
08-25-2013, 06:42 PM
What downfall? The game is selling very well even as an Early Access alpha version.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean the game is going to fail.

HEF2011
08-25-2013, 07:24 PM
Just a bunch of whiney Call of Duty kids in here who want freedom of movement and have never enjoyed a game of chess. Yep. There ya go! Once one of them whined about a blizzard entertainment game, I knew what was up. One of those whiners coming into the Might & Magic X: Legacy forums to complain is like a McDonald's regular barging into an exclusive French cuisine restaurant and harassing the patrons at the dining table.:o

Aeon1977
08-25-2013, 11:44 PM
I really could toss my cookies when some whiney dudes on here belched about "lines of fire" and "actions per minute"... So sad.

NIJAN123
08-26-2013, 12:24 AM
Just as most of the other people on this thead, I'm not sure how you could've bought the game without knowing that this is how it works.

I also think that you are putting "turn based" and "grid based movement system" into the same basket. If you are a fan of 7, you'd know that it also featured turnbased combat alongside it's semi-realtime combat.

I strongly dislike their choice of going with grid based movement, but turn based combat never stopped being a part of MM, and it's not ruining anything.

Tazding99
08-26-2013, 12:40 AM
why did you guys even buy the game
or didnt you read the description at all?
turnbase movement the downfall of this game.. *facepalm*

NIJAN123
08-26-2013, 12:42 AM
I for one, didn't buy the game for that very reason. But you are right, he should've read it before he bought it.

Xterism2
08-26-2013, 12:45 AM
Turn based and tile based like MM3-5 are the reasons I will buy this game. I personally don't enjoy the free movement gameplay from MM6 and on.

NIJAN123
08-26-2013, 12:49 AM
this is slightly off topic, but can I ask you; Do you generally dislike free moving rpgs? Or is it simply in MM games you dislike it? I'm asking because I have a hard time relating to how this work.

Mardn.seiner
08-26-2013, 01:00 AM
Go North
Go North
Go North
Kill Ogre

...remember that...:) I'm so happy this is happening :D

Xterism2
08-26-2013, 01:01 AM
It is simply in MM games that I dislike it. The controls didn't feel right and the 3D and the enemies didn't have any "meat" to them. I hated chasing monsters around camera corners, it felt silly. Unless you paused, the fights felt like a click-fest in hopes to come through, that also ruined it for me, it wasn't meaningful. I'd rather have a solid, predictable foundation to work with which is what tile-based brings to me. It's like a chess board and I love it. Also, I might be a little biased towards MM3-5 and I absolutely loved Legend of Grimrock. Great feel and excellent execution.

deadraque
08-27-2013, 11:13 AM
Go North
Go North
Go North
Kill Ogre

...remember that...:) I'm so happy this is happening :D

Mmx style

Go North
Go North
A day has passed, need to rest if I have supplies
Go North
Go North
An ogre, oops can't kill it because he is on a vertical square.....

marcsm2008
08-27-2013, 12:06 PM
Mmx style

Go North
Go North
A day has passed, need to rest if I have supplies
Go North
Go North
An ogre, oops can't kill it because he is on a vertical square.....

Both issues are going to be fixed. The developers said so yesterday, btw.



this is slightly off topic, but can I ask you; Do you generally dislike free moving rpgs? Or is it simply in MM games you dislike it? I'm asking because I have a hard time relating to how this work.

For me, its in RPGs. I think RPGs are meant to be more strategic, and the character development has to matter more than your own skill.

Heck, in MM6 is soo easy to kite your enemies, that the game can actually be beaten at low levels, as long as you have the skill to hit-and-run.

deadraque
08-27-2013, 12:23 PM
Both issues are going to be fixed. The developers said so yesterday, btw.


Good to know and I just wanted to make fun of that situation he. I knew they couldn't leave something like that.

SteelersFan70
08-27-2013, 03:02 PM
Okey i tried my hardest i gave it a good 48 hours worth of playtime but... i just cant i really cant.... this turn based movement system is just mind numbingly boreing.... i know im not the smartest person in the world but by god playing this just makes me feel really stupid....

its so dam easy requires no skill and no brains at all...

also i hate how there is a mob right there infront of me but i cant hit it even though im in clear sight of it.... but its because its at an angle ¬_¬'

now for all you who are going to white knight this game and say how its really awesome and amazing and requires skill to play... just stop....

there is no skill needed to play this because you are given a rest to make and time your next move....the mob just sits there like... herp...derp...so umm.... yeah....gona hit me yet?

to me... thats not realistic at all... if you was back in medevil times... you think a enemy is gona stop there wait for you to be ready before he attacks you? no....

now compare it to if this was a free movement game.... i would love to see all you people who say....... "this game needs skill because its turn based"...... play this game if it was free movement....

Yeah try cast a spell while an enemy is rushing you and another enemy is behind you and archers behind its back....and you only have a split second to make a life or death choice.... this is what i was hoping with this game.... i like adrenaline filled life or death choices that you only have a fraction of a second to react... those are the real fun... thats how i remember might and magic....

my fav game ever and i still play it is M&M 7.... i loved how i would be attacking someone then outa nowhere a bunch of goblins will come and jump me from behind and i would have to retreat and run away or die... i liked how you only had a few seconds of choice at certain times... i liked fighting a dragon and dodging its fireballs because i knew one hit from it could kill me... now thats skill.....

Im sorry but i will be having a refund until this game has the option for free movement.... if it dont... then i can see this game dieing... really fast.... with a score of 1/10 in every gamer mag....

the only people i could imagine who would enjoy this are the people who are either braindead... cant multi task.... or have the slowest reflexes ever.... i like to multi task... i like to go fast... i like to make quick decisions.... this game.... has none of that..... i want the M&M 7 style combat back....

Sorry all I heard was you whining "Wah, wah, wah. I wanted Call of Duty in a dungeon!"

Seriously.

The game is in pre-alpha state.

The developer's first update showed a list of 70 bugs they've already identified and fixed. There's going to be more bugs, fixes, and updates. It's PRE-ALPHA.

Instead of pissing and whining, why don't you offer something HELPFUL to the developer that they can use to improve the game?

And no, switching to real-time free movement isn't an option.

It's an old-school style RPG.

The turn-based system is here to stay. It's what the developer decided before they ever built the game. It's what was shown in the video trailer and the product description.

Deal with it.

Or ask for a refund and go away quietly.

Personally, I prefer turn-based RPG games. They require a lot more brain power, strategy, and tactical planning than the vast majority of reflex-driven games. They also frequently have much more of a story or plot too.

I spend 16-17 hours a day multi-tasking constantly because I own two different successful internet-based business. If I want real-time action, I'll go watch football, play with my kids, or fire up a FPS game.

My 3 cents,

Steelers Fan

Kmanfree
08-27-2013, 03:19 PM
They did.

But they missed an essential point:
The package of Xeen is in itself consistent. The package of Grimrock is in itself consistent. The grid movement was "natural" in an environment where everything was square-like, blocky, edged, and angular. Everything was a systematical grid, looked like a grid and played like a grid.

The style was coherent, and the limitations didn't look weird.

But in MMX you don't have this coherent style. You have a mixture. A mixture of natural, softly shaped landscapes / architecture, but brutally bound to a completely static grid system. It's almost a new genre. A genre which tries to combine 2 totally different gameplay systems. Not different - but *contrary* systems. And this is destroys the immersion. Everyone with a sense for aesthetics feels that it is wrong. And that's also the reason why it seems strange when you can't attack someone standing upfront, but 1 tile to the left. It is all a consequence of merging 2 contrary styles together.

Didn't the developers realize this? I mean such fallacies can be essential for the commercial success of a product...:confused:

It seems they laid a grid on top of regular graphics, some how it kind of isn't quite right, it works, but what you see graphically doesn't line up.

Maomor
08-27-2013, 04:06 PM
Yes.

When you look at the first screenshot for Grimrock 2, you can see that they mastered the grid-system-look-and-feel even on the outside location. Despite the environment having bushes, trees, grass and rocks, it already presents a coherent picture fitting to the grid based gameplay.

A similar style would have been appropriate for MMX and I am sure it would have been possible with a more open (Xeen-like) world too.

ballermanns
08-27-2013, 07:37 PM
Turn-base is fun, because very enjoyable (i can watch TV, make some calls, eat and drink, taking care of my flowers while playing, which is just perfect after work).

I love this old-school style game.

dogtowndad1
08-27-2013, 10:41 PM
in my opinion...

the downfall of this game is that ubisuck is still producing the thing

the only way to save this series is to have another 3rd party software developer step up to the plate and take this thing over

the game has a huge fan base and to let it die like this is a total crime...anyone that has followed the horror of the past ubisuck screen freeze issue that came in the past with h6 knows that you cant trust these jerks

its time for some new blood ...get someone who gives a damn workin on this thing

paalernspaalern
08-27-2013, 11:15 PM
in my opinion...

the downfall of this game is that ubisuck is still producing the thing

the only way to save this series is to have another 3rd party software developer step up to the plate and take this thing over

the game has a huge fan base and to let it die like this is a total crime...anyone that has followed the horror of the past ubisuck screen freeze issue that came in the past with h6 knows that you cant trust these jerks

its time for some new blood ...get someone who gives a damn workin on this thing


So dramatic...

The Early access looks (to me) really, really promising and I have full faith In the future of M&M.

kram0789
08-27-2013, 11:55 PM
The tun based combat is fur and the grid movement took some getting used to but its fun too. The thing is the game is just a grind. I swear there must be a rut on my computer screen. The old game (MMVI) was more fun from the outset. You could kill a lot of villians, the food and rest were not so restricting and the shops regenerated. It was a grind too, but at least with distractions.

Raventiger_sb
08-28-2013, 04:13 AM
My experience was completely different. Being a big fan of M&M 3 -5, I immediately fell in love with this game. It feels like an updated Xeen game, and that's great for me.

Basevoided
08-28-2013, 07:07 AM
OK, I'm a lover of MM6, played it and beat it, twice.
This game has potential. My suggestions.

Keep the turn based, but incorporate it as an option. In MM6 you could roll up on a creature, or group there of, and cast your quick spells, shoot your bows, and attack as if in real time or drop it into a turned based thing. Nice to have the option.

Make the movement more fluid, when I'm walking, it feels clunky, like...... take a step, stop.... take a step, stop....
In MM6 you could move diagonally, keeps the grid but feels more life like, like realistic walking, smooth and fluid.

It would be cool to be able to mouse grab the screen and look around, but then have to go back to a more fixed style view for movement.

Will you get to fly? Man flying around and casting meteor shower or starburst in MM6 was the coolest!

Really liked the inventory style of MM6 where a item might take up more than a slot depending on the item, more realistic.

Why are the graphics so clunky, I run 3gig 8 cores 12 gigs of ram and have a decent graphics card and this thing staggers when I turn?? shoud be smooth.....

Do the NPC's talk? def better with talking characters, gives personality, also loved the party characters talking and making facial gestures in MM6.

Just go play MM6 for awhile and make it feel a bit more like that...... I think it would help it be a hit.

Just my two cents :P

Basevoided
08-28-2013, 07:16 AM
A right mouse button toggle for strafe would be sweet!

SadFerret
08-28-2013, 09:42 AM
This is not going to be like MM6-9. It's going to be like MM1-5: grid-based and turn-based.

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/a0e/2bc/3cd/resized/bolo-yeung-meme-generator-you-deal-with-it-458526.jpg

VormulacUnsleep
08-28-2013, 11:51 AM
Keep the turn based, but incorporate it as an option. In MM6 you could roll up on a creature, or group there of, and cast your quick spells, shoot your bows, and attack as if in real time or drop it into a turned based thing. Nice to have the option.

Every game that did this did it badly. You get a schizophrenic mess when you try to make a TB game AND a RT game (in terms of combat) at once. RT exploration and TB combat is a different story however.



It would be cool to be able to mouse grab the screen and look around, but then have to go back to a more fixed style view for movement.

You can do this right now, hold right mouse.

OsirisDawn
08-28-2013, 12:52 PM
Okey i tried my hardest i gave it a good 48 hours worth of playtime but... i just cant i really cant.... this turn based movement system is just mind numbingly boreing.... i know im not the smartest person in the world but by god playing this just makes me feel really stupid....

I believe that in a second 'cause, you know, it was written on the box. I feel stupid too when i buy something before reading up on the thing i buy ...


its so dam easy requires no skill and no brains at all...
So its like 99% of games out there ... what a suprise ...


also i hate how there is a mob right there infront of me but i cant hit it even though im in clear sight of it.... but its because its at an angle ¬_¬'
Hey! Thats a complaint i can related too ...


now for all you who are going to white knight this game and say how its really awesome and amazing and requires skill to play... just stop....
I looked and searched ... i havent found one post that mentions skill in any way or form ... its just in your brain.
And fun is an opinion thing, you cant forbid that. I had fun playing MMX until it smoked itself. But you know ... for an alpha release it is quite good.


there is no skill needed to play this because you are given a rest to make and time your next move....the mob just sits there like... herp...derp...so umm.... yeah....gona hit me yet?
to me... thats not realistic at all... if you was back in medevil times... you think a enemy is gona stop there wait for you to be ready before he attacks you? no....
Yeah ... realistic ... sure. Who the **** would ever leave the damn town if they knew of all the bandits / giant spiders / monsters of myth out there? I dont know if there is even one game out there i would call realistic. Each one could be deconstructed that way.
What is even your point here? Do you even know how to make one?


now compare it to if this was a free movement game.... i would love to see all you people who say....... "this game needs skill because its turn based"...... play this game if it was free movement....

Yeah try cast a spell while an enemy is rushing you and another enemy is behind you and archers behind its back....and you only have a split second to make a life or death choice.... this is what i was hoping with this game.... i like adrenaline filled life or death choices that you only have a fraction of a second to react... those are the real fun... thats how i remember might and magic....

my fav game ever and i still play it is M&M 7.... i loved how i would be attacking someone then outa nowhere a bunch of goblins will come and jump me from behind and i would have to retreat and run away or die... i liked how you only had a few seconds of choice at certain times... i liked fighting a dragon and dodging its fireballs because i knew one hit from it could kill me... now thats skill.....
Yeah. THATs totally realistic! I see it now ... /sarcasm


Im sorry but i will be having a refund until this game has the option for free movement.... if it dont... then i can see this game dieing... really fast.... with a score of 1/10 in every gamer mag....
Hyperbole much? But i guess with so much foresight you will have no problem finding your way out.


the only people i could imagine who would enjoy this are the people who are either braindead... cant multi task.... or have the slowest reflexes ever.... i like to multi task... i like to go fast... i like to make quick decisions.... this game.... has none of that..... i want the M&M 7 style combat back....
Wonder why i am so aggressive at you? Thats the reason.
You fail at reading (the game info), reasoning (realistic?!) and common sense (1/10 in EVERY gamer mag) but call me braindead?
Also, every 14 year old should by now know that there is no such thing as multi tasking. It is impossibel for the human brain to do so.
So you have great reflexes? Super. Try a shooter maybe ... and NOT a turn based game. Like it is written on EVERY site you could buy it from. Or the official site. Or every preview i ever read.

quackounet
08-28-2013, 02:54 PM
As Stated in Le-Larissa sticky post :

What we are not interested in:

The main story and the general basic game design mechanics of the game, as described in our official game FAQ are set into stone, like:

- MMX takes place in Ashan
- MMX is mainly based upon Might & Magic IV-V
- MMX is a party-based game with 4 adventurers
- MMX has turn and tile based movement
- The grid in MMX consists of square tiles
- MMX reuses (and reworks) some of the already existing assets made available to the team by Ubisoft


So the following examples are not really helpful to us:
- Visual feedback like "It doesn´t look like Skyrim"
- I want free movement, I want ArcoMage, I want real-time combat, I want to fly, I want Sci-fi, etc.

So no point always complaining about it, it won't change, and it's starting to get boring to read that everyday...

deadraque
08-29-2013, 07:38 PM
As Stated in Le-Larissa sticky post :

So no point always complaining about it, it won't change, and it's starting to get boring to read that everyday...

If there is a message every day about it, then I guess there is a real problem, and means that many people are not so happy about it even if we also do like the till based game it probably never will feel as good as the later games where.

I bought it immediately on hearing the name Might & Magic without reading, and Guess what they offer MM6 free with the package so what kind of game do you expect? mm6 like? Nope they give a mm4-5 like so why not giving those then? I think because they knew that they would pre-sell less of them. Also 6-9 came after 1-5 right, so then comes 10 in a logical way what do you expect? An even more improved 6-9 or even more complicated system, a new system. But what we get is a system again from 1993. 20 years back? so yes many are disappointed. I hope for the best and I hope I will love the game, but in my opinion it is not an evolution of the game, Perhaps they should have Call it Might & Magic 0, like some movies do to make you understand that you come back to the roots.

VormulacUnsleep
08-29-2013, 08:25 PM
After more than a decade I think you shouldn't know what to expect, especially from a game in such a varied genre whose parent series is also varied. Being disappointed by the style and not purchasing it or purchasing it then being disappointed it's not what it was clearly stated to be is one thing, but not looking into it at all before purchasing then being angry because it's "not what you expected" but is exactly what is advertised is an entirely other thing.

Forums don't count for anything when it comes to "what the player base wants." Very few people make it to the forums and even fewer stick around long enough to actually post. There could be a greater number of people that are perfectly happy to see a grid/turn-based game but have no reason to come to the forums. You can't say anything other than that this is a wedge issue.

deadraque
08-29-2013, 08:50 PM
Perhaps you should reread the reason like the MM6 and perhaps, i said perhaps you will understand the why. If you love something you not always go examine the whole thing first, If I am happy with samsung phones and upgrade them and the next one is suddenly a phone like 20 years ago i can complain. Same goes for movies some like everything what is about batman, so they first need to inform about everything that is gone be in the movie? Your statement is so ridiculous. how Many bought Diablo 3 immediately hoping it would be as good as D2; Perhaps you finally get it.

You want to hang in the 80's good stay there. I like to evolve, I like new music, i like new movies, new games, new technology, it can be fun to hear a song again from the 80, see a movie again, but don't want the new things look like in the 80's. I gave an opinion and asked me why we had MM6 when it was like a MM5 game, I didn't ask you for a personal attack and didn't ask you on how in need to live got it. On each freaking post, even neutral ones you need a guy that need to tell you how you should do things or how you should live. I am so tired of that kind of trolls.
If I want to complain about a product it's my right, you don't like it go bother some other people.

Reihnil
08-29-2013, 11:13 PM
I bought Diablo 3 thinking it would be as good as Diablo 2. Just like I bought MM9 thinking it would be even better than MM7.
And then eleven years followed.
Eleven.
You know the very first thought that came to my mind the moment I heard there would be a MM10? "What? No, not another MM9!" That's the deep pit MM10 has to get out of. When I saw it was grid-based, yeah I whined and complained, like most people. And with good reasons, I want my MM7+. But then I realized that the game would be good. That it was less risky, more reliable, overall safer. And still able to deliver, just differently. It wouldn't be a MM9.5.
And that it was the best if not only chance for a potential MM11 answering our dreams. But right now, what's feasible is this, and I don't think our "evolved" M&M would hold a chance when most regular players would simply compare it to Skyrim and such. Maybe the developers could have done it, they're talented, I don't doubt that, but it would have been a feat. A wild bet. And after eleven years, thank you, stop betting. Just revive the license, that's already enough.

MM10 is a smart choice with a good result, and judging the game for and by with itself, with "early access" in mind, it's enjoyable.
But when I bought the game, I basically did it to support a license from my childhood, that I want to see rise again, with if possible three divine interventions a day. And I have no reason to regret it.

HorrorScopeX
08-30-2013, 12:53 AM
A poorly executed game will be its downfall. Here is to a nicely polished and balanced game!

Kuraiya
08-30-2013, 01:43 AM
IMHO, buying a game without doing a minimum effort to find out what it's all about, just because it's part of a franchise it's kind of dumb. You could have expectations of quality, but you cannot take gameplay mechanics for granted.

Also, your example of Samsung phones, so you just blindly purchased based on brand only? I don't think so, I know I don't. I usually research my purchases, because every company could take its brand in a direction I do not like.

Frankly, I have played MM3 to MM9 and I have enjoyed both gameplay mechanics. For me, free roaming didn't make the game better (or worse), it was just different. What I think made the franchise improve was the promotions, the skill system and so on and so forth. But, to each his own.

deadraque
08-30-2013, 09:07 AM
The samsung example was just something to make it clear, same like the D2-D3 example I made. But yes I am extremely happy with that brand and just wanted to point out that in my case I upgraded from S1 to S3 to Note2 that the next one i buy would be a disappointment if for example i would have a screen size of s1, I am not always going to inform on every detail on the product.

In this case with MMX when I bought it You get the beautiful Deluxe Edition page where i landed with the explanation, nowhere is mentioned that they went back to Grid based combat.
http://might-and-magic.ubi.com/mightandmagicx-legacy/en-GB/shop/index.aspx
It even says open world, for me it is not that open running between rocks in a kind of maze way.... but that's my opinion, perhaps it would be nice to add something like : A REVOLUTIONARY new Grid System! :) They publishers usually love that word :) If my samsung would have a a step back screen it would been said on that kind of page!
And You see that special line "Free copy of Might & Magic VI" So sorry to say but you expect that it would be that kind of game!

Anyway I am still sad about it as I didn't expect that system, but have also accepted that it will be grid based, and as I said In another post I do like the grid system in the dungeons, but really hate it and find it a bit useless in towns and in open spaces I would have loved a system that was free but perhaps turn based on the grid as it is now when combat starts.
I also hope that it will be much bigger as if this is 20% of the whole game then it is smaller then some of a single dungeon of MM6-7, so the full game would represent 5 big mm6 dungeons... I hope not but it start to look like it.

quackounet
08-30-2013, 09:35 AM
I agree to you, i would have prefered a MM6-7 based game, i bought it right away when i saw MMX without looking for more ^^
Even if i liked the first MM grid based :)

But when i say stop complaining it was more for the OP, in my opinion this forum (early access there is the other forum "Might & Magic X Legacy" to talk about this) is not for complaining about something that can't change :) and as they told they are not interrested in hearing this :)

RhavonAquila
10-10-2013, 07:07 PM
Im sorry but i will be having a refund until this game has the option for free movement.... if it dont... then i can see this game dieing... really fast.... with a score of 1/10 in every gamer mag....

the only people i could imagine who would enjoy this are the people who are either braindead... cant multi task.... or have the slowest reflexes ever.... i like to multi task... i like to go fast... i like to make quick decisions.... this game.... has none of that..... i want the M&M 7 style combat back....

Sorry Pal, I enjoy the game as is.

What your basically saying is you don't like the way the game is (and that's fine) and that everyone who likes the game is less of a person because of it (not fine).

Perhaps you should just go find another game and leave this one behind because clearly you can't seem to cope with the fact this game isn't how you would want it.

Try going to another games forum and telling them to change their key game mechanisms because you don't like it and everyone who doesn't agree is stupid. See how far that gets you.

And is it any coincidence that the majority of people complaining can't spell to save their lives? Starting to think it's an age/education thing.

stanleyjohn1956
10-12-2013, 12:28 AM
I have played all the Might and magic games and im really glad that the grid/turn base from the old days is back.From the D@D games to the wizardry series i have loved them all.These days many want Live ACTION ACTION ACTION games which is nice but i do love those laid back games where you can plan your next move and see the results without everything moving in fast motion.I just started playing the game and will respond more later.

Playing games since the days of the commodore 64

Krampsj
10-13-2013, 03:17 AM
Just go play MM6 for awhile and make it feel a bit more like that...... I think it would help it be a hit.


How about Neeeoooooo!

This "argument" is never going to end on these boards. I suppose if your under 30, "Classic RPG and Classic M&M" are all free roaming games. It appears that 1/2 of you here think of "Classic" and "Legacy" in this way.

The other half of us? Legacy is Wizardry 6 & 7, Might and Magic 3, 4 & 5, Eye of the Beholder, etc. THIS is why we are here.

Fine, you don't like it. We get it. End of story. Its not a failure of a game. The people who want the game exactly like it was pitched are not imbeciles. We are simply looking forward to a graphically updated nostalgia trip. The same reason we hack our way through emulators to play old arcade games like Bubble Bobble or Galaga.

Personally, MM6 is when MM went downhill and I moved to Heroes of Might and Magic for my MM fix. If this game was like MM6 - 10, I wouldn't be playing it.

So like I said. Its 50/50 for those who like or hate.

horrid74
10-13-2013, 08:42 AM
Nostalgia got the better of me and I grabbed Legacy and I am enjoying some retro comfort food. Some of the previous posters have some good points about the rigidly enforced grid movement in a more modern open world. It is rather jarring. Back in the gold box days that jarring bump with the plod of footfalls seemed natural. As I look at a richer environment and I stutter forward I feel as though I'm experiencing the precursor to a stroke or seizure. Reconciling the more modern visuals with classic feel is a staggering design challenge. I'm sold on the quasi 3rd D&D character portraits; The realistic cartoon character portraits look very nice in high resolutions: I hadn't played MM6 in about 15 years and I forgot just how horrifying those "photo-realistic" portraits were.

foolycoolly
10-25-2013, 05:19 PM
My favorite M&M game is World of Xeen, so my vote is for turn-based. And i think no one will change the game system at this stage of development, so it will be as it is.

Sirgalahan
10-27-2013, 11:25 AM
Turn based can be implemented in different ways MMX is programmed with the oldest one --tile based-- No problem with that !


But with new rules (wich I don't like at all) &(

If tile based is ok with UBI soft what is wrong with the OLD RULES ??

lebo86
10-27-2013, 02:25 PM
I played from 6 mm to 9 and I've always loved, I do not mind this but I wanted the ability to move freely, even some choices do not share
1 guilds why remove them?
2 the vision of the characters in doll wearing the equipment
3 the Possibility of playing as bad, (a sorpigal of mm6 I killed all citizens)
and then to progress to the GM of the guild black magic
4 stories written on equip

Sirgalahan
10-27-2013, 02:34 PM
Good one I remember casting Armageddon in middle of town LOL well that's fun especially when you get no monsters left outside Sorpigal lets start at the ppl in town LOL

jeckhyl
10-28-2013, 11:43 AM
I have the feeling that the square tiles system has flaws. But I suppose it's too late to change it.

Kmanfree
10-29-2013, 12:20 AM
Frankly I miss turn based games, man they got the shaft the last what, 10 , 15 years or so?
Heck I find myself playing old games like Shining Force and stuff because there just isn't much else left.