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wapikas
08-24-2013, 09:20 AM
In AC4BF mission constraints are removed because majority of the players did not seem to like it. I personally liked them but I must admit sometimes constraints were bit hard to achieve or felt kind of stupid in AC3 and by having constraints it created the pressure I have to to something or it'll be failure. It seems that still large number of AC hardcore fans like mission constraints because it increases replay value and add challenge for those who seek it. Keeping this in mind I think that in future AC games (not AC4 obviously) ubisoft should bring back mission constraints but constraints should be available only on the second play trough if you choose so. On the first play trough constraints are still there but their are hidden and act like trophies. In first play trough every mission has one or multiple constraints but you don't know what the constraints are but if you complete mission and by chance happen to fill requirements of constraint you will be notified that you earned additional (hidden) sync points. If you don't meet the requirements of constraint then you just successfully completed mission and there wouldn't be annoying message that you have failed something. And when you complete the game you have option to turn on constraints just for the replaying the missions or when you start new game. What you think?

roostersrule2
08-24-2013, 09:33 AM
I'm not the biggest fan of constraints, I like the option to be able to turn them off the best.

TipTopToby1
08-24-2013, 10:45 AM
I've hated them in every AC game I've played. I really don't see what they add to the experience, in fact in almost ruins some parts of the story for me. In a game like AC were it's supposed to be about the open-ended missions that allow you to assassinate in the way you want with the tools they given you the fact that a message pops up in the corner saying "Kill your target with an air assassination." ruins it for me. It's like the developers are telling you the way they want their game to be played. Hey you want to stealth kill the targets and poison the last guy? Nah you should just shoot that barrel there and kill them all in one go, it looks awesome trust me!

I wouldn't mind the option you suggested were they show up in a second play-through because I don't want them, but if other do like them then they're still there.

Farlander1991
08-24-2013, 10:51 AM
I'm not against optional objectives per se, I just think that they should be side objectives rather than playstyle objectives. I.e. 'what' rather than 'how'.

Air assassinate a target? Bad.
Rescue officers from being executed? Good.
Use crossbow to kill five people? Bad.
Deactivate two cannons in the fort? Good.
Corner takedown 3 people? Bad.
Assassinate this secondary officer? Good.

The only optional objective that I'm on the fence about in the terms of 'how' is the 'do not get detected' one. I think that gets a pass from me. Also, optional objectives that are sort of a challenge (that don't exactly define the playstyle), like 'don't take a single hit', or 'complete in 4 minutes', I think I'm fine with those too.

adventurewomen
08-24-2013, 10:55 AM
I liked optional objectives, for 100% full sync.

I don't mind either way. I'm kind of sad to see them go for AC4.

Sushiglutton
08-24-2013, 10:59 AM
They are not gone at all. In the fort takeover you could see the constraints "Use mortar" and "Kill the captain with a running assassination" (or similar). So not only are they back, they still tell us exactly how to play the game :(. I think at this point it would be better to simply remove them all together. When replaying missions you can figure out your own little asignments/experiments instead. This would also mean one less thing for the HUD/UI

roostersrule2
08-24-2013, 11:00 AM
I liked optional objectives, for 100% full sync.

I don't mind either way. I'm kind of sad to see them go for AC4.They're still in it.

adventurewomen
08-24-2013, 11:03 AM
They are not gone at all. In the fort takeover you could see the constraints "Use mortar" and "Kill the captain with a running assassination" (or similar). So not only are they back, they still tell us exactly how to play the game :(. I think at this point it would be better to simply remove them all together. When replaying missions you can figure out your own little asignments/experiments instead. This would also mean one less thing for the HUD/UIThanks for letting me know, I have been trying to avoid details of AC4 because I'm scared of spoliers lol. The OP made it sound like they were gone completely, that would suck. IMO

Jexx21
08-24-2013, 11:43 AM
if you had an "I don't care" option, I would pick that.

roostersrule2
08-24-2013, 11:47 AM
if you had an "I don't care" option, I would pick that.Or you could just not vote.

Jexx21
08-24-2013, 11:54 AM
That's what I'm doing, but polls should have an option for everyone.

roostersrule2
08-24-2013, 11:55 AM
That's what I'm doing, but polls should have an option for everyone.That is your option, not to vote. Why take part in something you don't care about?

Rugterwyper32
08-24-2013, 01:44 PM
I'm not against optional objectives per se, I just think that they should be side objectives rather than playstyle objectives. I.e. 'what' rather than 'how'.

Air assassinate a target? Bad.
Rescue officers from being executed? Good.
Use crossbow to kill five people? Bad.
Deactivate two cannons in the fort? Good.
Corner takedown 3 people? Bad.
Assassinate this secondary officer? Good.

The only optional objective that I'm on the fence about in the terms of 'how' is the 'do not get detected' one. I think that gets a pass from me. Also, optional objectives that are sort of a challenge (that don't exactly define the playstyle), like 'don't take a single hit', or 'complete in 4 minutes', I think I'm fine with those too.

Basically this. I would prefer, rather than constraints, them being "extra challenges" that actually earn you something, while we're at it. Ubi actually showed how I'd like it to work with Splinter Cell Blacklist: High value targets, laptops and USBs found around the area are optional to obtain and it wasn't bugging you the whole time and telling you "WHOOPS YOU FAILED THIS".
I'd either like that, or make them like Castlevania Lords of Shadow challenges, which open up after replay and DO add some nice challenge.

Jexx21
08-24-2013, 01:50 PM
also, the new ones are called:

Optional Objectives

They have their own little section in the mid-bottom right of the screen, and if you fail one they don't even tell you (well, maybe at the end of the mission, but no red X right when it happens)

so far the ones I have seen are:

use mortars to attack the towers
running assassinate the captain
do not take part in combat
air assassinate Julien du Casse

Farlander1991
08-24-2013, 02:02 PM
air assassinate Julien du Casse

...

WHAT?! >_<

Do I have to point them out to the part of one of my blog posts, about Pitcairn, that optional objectives like this for a main assassination target nudge the player to do it a certain way and subconsciously limit the player (even if, like in case with Pitcairn, there is enough freedom given?). I really hope that it's just part of those 10% that Ashraf mentioned. :-/

Jexx21
08-24-2013, 02:06 PM
Well, in all honesty, I was half-expecting/fearing that the optional objective for that assassination would be "kill Julien du Casse with pistols"

As I watched the gameplay for that mission, I didn't initially see that optional objective (I saw it when I was specifically looking for it), and when I was thinking about how I would have done that mission, I realized that that's what I would have done anyway.

I would have climbed the masts, and then I would have air assassinated him.

So that objective honestly didn't bother me much :P

ctuagent15
08-24-2013, 02:27 PM
Basically this. I would prefer, rather than constraints, them being "extra challenges" that actually earn you something, while we're at it. Ubi actually showed how I'd like it to work with Splinter Cell Blacklist: High value targets, laptops and USBs found around the area are optional to obtain and it wasn't bugging you the whole time and telling you "WHOOPS YOU FAILED THIS".
I'd either like that, or make them like Castlevania Lords of Shadow challenges, which open up after replay and DO add some nice challenge.
It seems from the latest fort Vid that if you don't do them you now don't get told you didn't do them with a red X on screen

Shahkulu101
08-24-2013, 02:41 PM
I hate them passionately and want them gone.

Rugterwyper32
08-24-2013, 02:42 PM
It seems from the latest fort Vid that if you don't do them you now don't get told you didn't do them with a red X on screen

Certainly an improvement. It's not even that big of a change, but it really changes the attitude towards them. I'm thinking that so long as they end up marked as "completed" after having done them once, that would be good enough.

dxsxhxcx
08-24-2013, 02:53 PM
IMO they should remove the current system as it is, create a menu on the pause screen called "challenge system" (or something like that) put all these objectives there and just tell the player about them during the tutorial at the beginning of the game to make the player aware of this option and how it works, no more messages appearing telling you what you should do or if you failed at it, you want to do them for extra challenge or to inflate your ego, you pause the game, go to that menu and choose the challenge you want to complete, or to make things easier for those who enjoy them, the player will have the option to turn on/off these specific messages.

Jexx21
08-24-2013, 02:57 PM
But what about the synchronization system?

Shahkulu101
08-24-2013, 03:07 PM
The sync system is just a silly gimmick.

Jexx21
08-24-2013, 03:11 PM
I think it's part of the animus system now.

It has to be present in some form even if the optional objectives are gone.

and you should get something (either in-animus or out-of-animus) for getting 100% sync

SixKeys
08-24-2013, 03:15 PM
There should be an option to turn them off. I don't mind the 100% synch system, but it shouldn't limit player freedom. The constraints should be vague, like "use the blowpipe twice during this mission", not "use the blowpipe to kill John Smith". Removing the big red X's in AC4 when the player doesn't meet the sync requirements is a step in the right direction, but I would like the option to not have them visible at all unless I specifically want to go for the extra challenge. Some of the constraints are just silly ("don't shove anyone"). They don't make me feel any more of a badass assassin, but are a lot more "game-y".

Ureh
08-24-2013, 03:22 PM
I love constraints when they're fun and challenging but there're a few that're tedious or just there for the sake of being there. I'm getting older, so I don't spend as much time now as I did in the past trying to get 100% sync anymore. If it requires restarting then I probably won't eve attempt to get them on my subsequent playthroughs. It's exhilarating to "beat" these constraints especially on the first few tries, but that's rarely the case.

TheHumanTowel
08-24-2013, 03:28 PM
I'm glad they're removing the big red "YOU FAILED" X and supposedly making the constraints more vague with variety in how you can accomplish them. I dislike the really specific one's as it's essentially telling you this is the "right" way to do it and if you do it another way you're wrong. Like others have said some of the constraints are just contrived. "Don't shove anyone"? Really? So I hope they make them more meaningful and relevant.

Jexx21
08-24-2013, 03:30 PM
I love constraints when they're fun and challenging but there're a few that're tedious or just there for the sake of being there. I'm getting older, so I don't spend as much time now as I did in the past trying to get 100% sync anymore. If it requires restarting then I probably won't eve attempt to get them on my subsequent playthroughs. It's exhilarating to "beat" these constraints especially on the first few tries, but that's rarely the case.

I doubt getting older is the reason for not trying to get 100% sync as much as you did before. Just that you found better stuff to do.

Ureh
08-24-2013, 03:51 PM
I doubt getting older is the reason for not trying to get 100% sync as much as you did before. Just that you found better stuff to do.

That's kinda true. But the "older" part is still true. We're all running short on time so I want to focus on the better stuff.

Coltillion
08-24-2013, 04:55 PM
There should be an option to turn it off.

AnthonyA85
08-24-2013, 06:10 PM
TBH, I kinda prefer the AC2 synch system, where the only real restraint was "Detection will cause Desynch". The "Do it this way" system they introduced in ACB, that ultimately had no real merit in any of the games that followed ACB, and gave you nothing worth getting for achieving "100% Full Synch" in ACB, ACR and AC3, then I think they really should have just gone back to the AC2 system, or at the very least, give us the ability to turn it off, sadly it's too late to do anything about that now.

Jexx21
08-24-2013, 06:57 PM
so the Christina memories weren't worth it? o.o

AnthonyA85
08-24-2013, 09:14 PM
They were depressing, 'specially the last ones. Though it was nice hearing that AC2 music again in ACB, if only briefly.

wigster2012
08-24-2013, 10:19 PM
The only constraints I hated were the "Do it in one constraint" or the "Do not be detected" Ones. The first one is annoying when the first part is really easy and then the second part is really difficult, It was a pain in the *** having to go back and start all over again. The second one was only annoying because most times you'd get desynced if you where spotted which again was a pain. I understand they want to make it challenging which is fair enough, but with some missions it just felt like they where being incredibly cruel. Those where really the only two that bugged me the rest I wasn't particularly bothered about.

Farlander1991
08-24-2013, 10:23 PM
The only constraints I hated were the "Do it in one constraint" or the "Do not be detected" Ones. The first one is annoying when the first part is really easy and then the second part is really difficult, It was a pain in the *** having to go back and start all over again

You didn't have to restart all over, just from the last checkpoint (luckily most optional objectives' fail state, if activated, is before a new checkpoint) for the 'one sitting' thing to count. Still kinda annoying, but better than starting the mission all over.

ACHILLES4713
08-24-2013, 10:34 PM
I honestly despise the optional mission constraints. I'm only seriously going after the ones in AC3 right now because I'm trying to get the full synch achievement. In my opinion, the mission constraints just seems like Ubisoft trying to prove, "See, our game has challenge." Yeah, the game is challenging due to arbitrary hoops I have to jump through, and not because you made a game with gameplay that was challenging. Thanks Ubi. Still, AC1 reigns king in my book for the challenge factor. If you weren't careful, you could get your *** handed to you. Especually if you happened upon a Templar. I've played through that game more times than I can remember, and I'm pretty good with the combat, and I there are still times where I've found myself in tight spot. That's why I like AC3 so much, because it took the combat systems from brotherhood and mangaed to bring back some of the challenge from AC1. But even then, once you know how the combat works, the game is still pretty easy. Plus, mission constraints go against what a semi-open world is suppoesed to be about: doing things the way you want to do them. Missions constraints add nothing to the narrative or the game as a whole, and they need to dissapear from the franchise forever.

ACHILLES4713
08-24-2013, 10:38 PM
Also if anyone could tell me how to do paragraph spacing in a post, I'd luv it! I think I tried to hit the Enter key once before in another post, and I think it just automatically posted what I had writen. So I am kinda at a loss. I want to figure out how to clean up my posts. Thanks. :)

SixKeys
08-24-2013, 10:41 PM
Also if anyone could tell me how to do paragraph spacing in a post, I'd luv it! I think I tried to hit the Enter key once before in another post, and I think it just automatically posted what I had writen. So I am kinda at a loss. I want to figure out how to clean up my posts. Thanks. :)

You can press Enter, just make sure your mouse hasn't accidentally hovered over to the Post Reply button.

ACHILLES4713
08-24-2013, 10:48 PM
Awesome, thanks!

pacmanate
08-24-2013, 11:23 PM
I actually think to get the best freedom in an AC game they need to get rid of constraints. That way we can play it how we want and make up our own scenarios.

However constraints lets them put in achievements and cheat codes into the game as rewards.

I-Like-Pie45
08-24-2013, 11:30 PM
I actually think to get the best freedom in an AC game they need to get rid of constraints. That way we can play it how we want and make up our own scenarios.

However constraints lets them put in achievements and cheat codes into the game as rewards.

in place of actual awards

pacmanate
08-24-2013, 11:34 PM
in place of actual awards

eh? explain, i tired

LoyalACFan
08-24-2013, 11:39 PM
I don't like them. You can call them "optional" all day long, but the fact is that the devs tailor the levels specifically to allow you to follow the full-sync path. Which is not a good thing IMO. Like Pitcairn's mission; despite being the best assassination in AC3, the game HEAVILY suggested a single route for you to take. They've been boasting about FREEDOM in this game, but the freedom keeps getting taken away bit by bit with these "optional" constraints.

ACfan443
08-25-2013, 12:40 AM
They change up the way you can carry out a mission, and give the game longevity. There's also a sense of satisfaction you get when completing the trickier ones, so I like them. I just wish they weren't so specific.

kriegerdesgottes
08-25-2013, 03:06 AM
They're gone!? YAY!!!!

Assassin_M
08-25-2013, 03:12 AM
They're gone!? YAY!!!!
they`re not gone.....sorry. please don`t hate me

eaglefan129
08-25-2013, 03:15 AM
for me anyway it gave me the option of doing another playthrough 'make it feel fresh' ex: in washington dlc I didn't relize how powerful the bow was until the optional objective said kill two guards with one bow

plentybeef
08-25-2013, 04:46 AM
The constraints should be more like hit man absolution (contracts) But we just don't change our disguises. It would be nice to just have another set of clothes to stealth around in. Blend would be something interesting as I would try to inch my way close to the target other then jumping from above or over a ledge or shooting him from a distence. Besides that, constraints let me strive for something more meaningful then I had done things my way and normally I stealth around for fun, learning my bounds. Like "ay, you can't go over there" or "wait until the guard leaves." Sometimes I'll jump the gun, giving rise to many retries. I did have trouble gettin one constraint. For instince when I chased "the Bull dog" I had to shoot barrels. Which I really thought seemed less difficult then I imagined. I did get it after a long time.

But again I am reminded of another hit man game "blood money" where in one level(murder of crows) I had at least two or more ways to kill each target. And the simplicity it offers as it takes points off for being seen, and if your loud or kill non cilvilian targets. And each way of kill was either silent or loud and difficult to set up. For instince in bloody money the difficult the gameplay the less information was shown on the map. This made me remember each guard and time each step so if I knew I could kill a target after I hopped over a wall then I'd have to make sure the guards disappear, by accident or choice or if I passed on the kill I had to be extra careful with timing my movement.

As for constraints, I will miss them. But it won't change how I have played, making use of the thieves as a distraction or the Mercs for fighting. The blood bomb was some thing neat. Same goes for the stink bomb, sticky bomb and the trip wire bomb. And these are a bit of how I spent most of my time. I invested all I could in gaining the thieves special move after you complete all there challenges for brotherhood. I wonder if ill have something similar as these games do change. Good by constraints.

Edit- the very first day the game came out I had killed two guards with one bow. But it was still cool

Farlander1991
08-25-2013, 09:45 AM
You know, I wonder if the full synch constraints are a result of the Brotherhood system in ACB.

A lot of people like the system, and I agree I enjoyed it too (climbing the Castello at the end while commanding my assassins to take care of guards felt awesome). Think about it, your brotherhood is THE best tool for everything. And what you tend to do when you have THE best tool? You tend to use it pretty much all the time.

There was a chase mission where I had to kill a person with the hidden gun in ACB for full synch. What most likely I would've done without full synch? Send my assassins. There was a mission where we have to kill somebody undetected from a bench. What would I have done most likely without full synch? Send my assassins. It's a dominant strategy.

Well, you can kinda say something 'if you don't like it or don't want to use it then don't', and I don't entirely agree with this kind of sentiment, but, that's not the point, the point is, most people WOULD want to use it. Because that one press of a button feels really awesome. And as a result, a system had to be put in place, so people wouldn't press this one button, all the time. And that system is the full synch one.

I may be wrong, but that's my theory on why it exists in the first place.