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MB_Avro
01-03-2004, 07:18 PM
I would be willing to financially support someone to model the Gloster Meteor jet fighter.

It was the ONLY allied jet fighter to see combat in WW2.It destroyed V1 flying bombs attacking London and performed a ground-attack role in Europe. It also saw service during the Korean war during the early 1950s.

On a personal note, my father flew this aircraft and maybe he does not have many more years to go. He enjoyed 'flying' the Me 262 on this sim and it would be nice if he could do the same with the Meteor.

Please reply if interested.

Regards
MB_Avro

MB_Avro
01-03-2004, 07:18 PM
I would be willing to financially support someone to model the Gloster Meteor jet fighter.

It was the ONLY allied jet fighter to see combat in WW2.It destroyed V1 flying bombs attacking London and performed a ground-attack role in Europe. It also saw service during the Korean war during the early 1950s.

On a personal note, my father flew this aircraft and maybe he does not have many more years to go. He enjoyed 'flying' the Me 262 on this sim and it would be nice if he could do the same with the Meteor.

Please reply if interested.

Regards
MB_Avro

VW-IceFire
01-03-2004, 07:24 PM
You might also want to talk to these guys!

http://www.netwings.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID43&conf=DCConfID1

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
01-04-2004, 05:31 AM
i also would (modestly) be willing to donate to being abel to fly the Meteor in FB

she wouldnt be that great in the Air but would be an Excellent addition to FB

i wont mention my favourite that i would like to see in FB because this is a METEOR thread

carg0009
01-04-2004, 08:35 AM
I think the Meteor would be a great addition to FB. I'm a big fan of early jet a/c. A little history note: the USAAF sent 4 P-80 Shooting Stars to Italy in 1945 and these a/c saw combat although on a limited basis. They were the only other jet a/c besides the Meteor to see combat for the Allies.

Arm_slinger
01-04-2004, 08:56 AM
I thought they sent 9, 4 of which saw combat to combat that German Jet bomber thing

TX-Bomblast
01-04-2004, 09:47 AM
The P-80's never saw combat, they were there as a moral booster/test bed for the allies. Were not armed and if I remember, only one out of three survied the testing. "NO" combat missions were flown by the P80's. Guys, please read about the history of this plane, during the final stages of WW2. During the Korean war it was called the Shooting Star, and it was a completly different plane. If the plane is modeled correctly, it will have not have any operational guns and the engines will fail constantly. If your guys want I'll post my reference material. Please don't any post Korean War data....it's not relevant here.

TX-Bomblast
Red2

BTW, I'm afraid it will become a jet-fest soon.

tsisqua
01-04-2004, 10:42 AM
The testing of, and the effort to getting these newfangled jet-thingies into the war was very much a part of WWII aviation, and IMHO these birds have just as much a place as the prop jobbies do, just in a much different way since most of them were too late to be a deciding factor in the outcome of the war.

Tsisqua

http://www.uploadit.org/files/010903-nedChristie.jpg
Tsalagi Asgaya Equa

WUAF_Badsight
01-04-2004, 02:55 PM
the amount of combat P-80s saw in WW2 is .... ZERO

they were in europe for MORALE

they did patrol flights

NONE of the 4 saw any combat

WUAF_Badsight
01-04-2004, 02:58 PM
the more Jets the Better

BTW the Vmpire would be cool as well as the 234-Arado

the Komet is going to be AWESOME

& BTW the YP-80 DID cary guns , was designed to have them & was fitted with .50cals

maybe didnt operate with them in Italy but thats besides the point


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-Bomblast:

BTW, I'm afraid it will become a jet-fest soon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MB_Avro
01-05-2004, 01:25 AM
er....bump.

Gibbage1
01-05-2004, 01:44 AM
You got about 3000$? Thats about "average" for a model in a flight sim (IL2, CFS3, FS2004). I could have it done in a month http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But no garantee of it getting into the game this late.

As for the MEteor itself, it was a wonderful failure as a fighter. Not any faster then the current props of the day, and was restricted from all acrobatics. It was a a sitting duck in combat and served no front-line missions because of this. Sure it did some mud moving, but well away from any threat.

As for the P-80, it did serve and was armed. They sent both P-80's up in Italy after a photo-recon Me-262. They did not find it. If they did, it would have been the first jet-to-jet combat. The two P-80's in Italy were being "field tested" and were in full operation to get any bugs worked out before full production started. This included its weapons systems http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It was more of a "fighter" then the Me-262 or Meteor since it was built as a FIGHTER with shooting down other fighters in mind. Me-262 I believe was built as an attack aircraft and later changed into a intercepter, and I think the Meteor was built as an intercepter?

Gib

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MB_Avro:
I would be willing to financially support someone to model the Gloster Meteor jet fighter.

It was the ONLY allied jet fighter to see combat in WW2.It destroyed V1 flying bombs attacking London and performed a ground-attack role in Europe. It also saw service during the Korean war during the early 1950s.

On a personal note, my father flew this aircraft and maybe he does not have many more years to go. He enjoyed 'flying' the Me 262 on this sim and it would be nice if he could do the same with the Meteor.

Please reply if interested.

Regards
MB_Avro<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MB_Avro
01-05-2004, 09:45 AM
I have sent a positive response to Gibbage's kind offer. Maybe in the not too distant future this aircraft will be included??

Regards
MB_Avro

hop2002
01-05-2004, 10:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As for the MEteor itself, it was a wonderful failure as a fighter. Not any faster then the current props of the day, and was restricted from all acrobatics.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There were two marks of Meteor that saw service during the war, the Mk I and the Mk III. The Mark I was fitted with the RR Welland, the Mk III with the Welland and then RR Derwent.

The Welland engined planes had a max speed of about 410 mph, but the Derwent engined planes had a speed of around 490 mph clean, 470 with belly tank.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It was a a sitting duck in combat and served no front-line missions because of this. Sure it did some mud moving, but well away from any threat.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They operated over Germany during the spring of 1945. Due to the scarcity of Luftwaffe targets by that time, there's only one recorded air combat action involving Meteors, when a group attacked Fw190s. Another RAF squadron mistook the Meteors for 262s, and attacked them, leading to the action being broken off, with no casualties on either side.

noshens
01-05-2004, 11:12 AM
so is it going to happen?

http://www.img.net/cliff-m/vvn/me262.jpg

MB_Avro
01-05-2004, 11:35 AM
I am waiting for a reply from Gibbage in order to discuss the project further. I'm certain that if he takes it on it will be a first rate model.
However,I can't see the point in my financing this project if Oleg does not promise to include the Meteor as a future add-on. Oleg will have the final say??

Regards
MB_Avro

XyZspineZyX
01-05-2004, 11:56 AM
One 'o these?

http://www.naysayers.com/Mk8_1.jpg


Muahahahahha.....

This is a Korean War vintage Mk8 anyway... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

noshens
01-05-2004, 01:12 PM
Yes Oleg must promise that he'll put this plane in game.

By the way, on netwings forums someone wanted to do Ta - 183 and Oleg said that he will include it if it is done well, so I don't see reason why he wouldn't include
meteor.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MB_Avro:
I am waiting for a reply from Gibbage in order to discuss the project further. I'm certain that if he takes it on it will be a first rate model.
However,I can't see the point in my financing this project if Oleg does not promise to include the Meteor as a future add-on. Oleg will have the final say??

Regards
MB_Avro<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.img.net/cliff-m/vvn/me262.jpg

SECUDUS
01-05-2004, 03:56 PM
Hmmm...Life is full of disappointments, look at the state of our beloved Whirlwind! It would be nice to get a British jet into FB and the Meteor is the only contender that would fit the bill. (I'd prefer the Vampire though!) But if we are forced to spend money to get our favorite A/C I would have thought it would be more laudable to put something towards having a true War hero...Namely the DeHavilland Mosquito

http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/WhirlySig03.jpg?0.8016962940949658

XyZspineZyX
01-05-2004, 09:21 PM
Actually, I wouldn't make a Meteor for this sim; this one's earmarked for another.

No way I'd add another to the list of planes that just don't belong to this particular sim.

The Meteor is basically a plane for Britfans to whine for because (finger pointing and eyes full of jealous tears) "the *Germans* have a jet".

But at least the Germans' jet saw substantial action. The Meteor was held back from combat in WWII because the British were afraid it would crash and fall into enemy hands.

SkyChimp
01-05-2004, 09:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-Bomblast:
The P-80's never saw combat, they were there as a moral booster/test bed for the allies. Were not armed and if I remember, only one out of three survied the testing. "NO" combat missions were flown by the P80's. Guys, please read about the history of this plane, during the final stages of WW2. During the Korean war it was called the Shooting Star, and it was a completly different plane. If the plane is modeled correctly, it will have not have any operational guns and the engines will fail constantly. If your guys want I'll post my reference material. Please don't any post Korean War data....it's not relevant here.

TX-Bomblast
Red2

BTW, I'm afraid it will become a jet-fest soon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would Oleg do that? He didn't do it with the Me-262. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/skychimp.jpg

Gibbage1
01-05-2004, 09:57 PM
Its interesting. Whenever someone bashes the idea of a jet being included in this game, its the P-80. But why not bash the Go-229? It had less flight time, was never armed, and no production models were ever complete. Were the P-80 has two aircraft in Italy going through "field trials" with full armorment and missions. They were even sent up to intercept a Me-262 recon but they never found it.

Why is it you chose the P-80 to bash and not the Go-229? Why is it that 99% of the complaints about jets being added to this game revolve around the P-80 and they use the same LAME excuse of "none saw combat" when we have aircraft like the 109Z being added that was never even built!!!!!!

The only logical conclusion I can make is people crying about the P-80 being added are Luftwhiners that dont want too give up there limited "superiority" with having the only jet in the game.

As for the MEteor, we will see what develops. I dont know how Oleg plans on implamenting future aircraft, or how long he will. So I cant guarantee if I do model it that it will be added. I still have the Do-335 (I dont hear anyone crying about that eather) and the PBY to complete before I even start on the Meteor.

Gib

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-Bomblast:
The P-80's never saw combat, they were there as a moral booster/test bed for the allies. Were not armed and if I remember, only one out of three survied the testing. "NO" combat missions were flown by the P80's. Guys, please read about the history of this plane, during the final stages of WW2. During the Korean war it was called the Shooting Star, and it was a completly different plane. If the plane is modeled correctly, it will have not have any operational guns and the engines will fail constantly. If your guys want I'll post my reference material. Please don't any post Korean War data....it's not relevant here.

TX-Bomblast
Red2

BTW, I'm afraid it will become a jet-fest soon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

XyZspineZyX
01-05-2004, 11:40 PM
Well, there are several planes already in the set which clearly don't belong, so it's not just the idea of the Meteor OR the P-80.

Frankly, you can take all those never-flew, hardly-flew, six-production-run oddities and throw them ALL in the crapper. If a guy can't get excited about the representative planeset in the sim, especially with the latest addition of Western planes and maps, he's got a problem with attention span.

These oddball craft simply cheapen the sim and open the door to all kinds of silliness and stuff that you'd expect to see on a Quake server.

BTZ_Bonehead
01-06-2004, 01:51 AM
Its my ego getting the better of me but I have to say this ..... I have flown in the real thing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

A real 'gentlemans carraige' appart from its MASSIVE fuel burn http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WUAF_Badsight
01-06-2004, 02:01 AM
omg i cant believe your opinion about the Meteor Stiglr

it was a WW2 production fighter & saw many months use & many combat missions B4 the end of the war

more plane ENRICH FB ..... not cheapen it

BTW my most fav plane of all time conveneiantly is a WW2 era plane

http://server4.uploadit.org/files/211103-Shinden_3.jpg

& the more jets the better , they keep the props honest

MB_Avro
01-06-2004, 05:18 AM
SECUDUS suggests that the Mosquito would be a better option than the Meteor.I would be happy to financially support such a project if 'Oleg' does not wish to include the Meteor.

(assuming of course that 'Oleg' supports the inclusion of a Mosquito!)

Regards
MB_Avro

WUAF_Badsight
01-06-2004, 05:32 AM
its not Oleg . . . .

its finding a Moddeler who can complete the project to a high standard inn a quick time

we all want out fav planes in FB but there only a certian amount of digital 3D moddelers working on projects for this game

i only hope all of them with projects underway get to complete them

XyZspineZyX
01-06-2004, 11:42 AM
That's not opinion about the Meteor, it's historical fact.

Saying that it was a "combat production plane" is really stretching it. It was used to tip buzzbombs, yes. But it WAs held back from combat on the continent, because the Brits feared it would be captured and help the Germans' development of their own jet (as if they needed help with the Schwalbe).

Like the 109Z, the Bi-1, the MiG-3U and the other oddities, it would not be representative of ANY WWII action. It's simply too rare, too much of a curiosity piece to be taken seriously.

WUAF_Badsight
01-06-2004, 01:42 PM
ARE YOU KIDDING ??????

the Gloster Meteor was the first jet aircraft to enter service in World War II. It saw combat before the better known jet fighters of the German Luftwaffe.

The first Meteor to actually fly took to the air on 5 March 1943

The Meteor I was underpowered, had heavy controls, and pilots complained about the poor view to the sides and rear. The cannon suffered from jams, which turned out to be caused by the spent links from the ammunition belts accumulating in the ejection chutes. The jamming problem was quickly resolved, but there were doubters in the RAF that the newfangled Meteor was the way of the future. Others believed the type had considerable potential, The believers would be proven right

The Meteor "Mark III (G-41C)" was the first variant to go into full production. 210 were built, with initial deliveries to the RAF beginning in December 1944 and the last of the variant rolled out in 1947. The Meteor Is were all quickly replaced by Meteor IIIs.

The Meteor III featured a stronger airframe, greater internal fuel capacity, and a rear-sliding canopy, as opposed to the side-hinged canopy of the Meteor I. The first 15 Meteor IIIs were powered by Rolls-Royce W.2B / Welland I turbojets, but the rest were fitted with Rolls-Royce Derwent I turbojets with 8.83 kN (900 kg / 2,000 lb) thrust each. The heavier engines increased the balance problem, and the solution was to add yet more ballast.

A few Meteor IIIs flew to the Continent in January 1945 and operated out of the Low Countries with the 2nd Tactical Air Force until the end of the war in early May 1945. They performed ground strafing attacks, but never engaged in air combat. Meteor pilots were keen to test their aircraft against the Messerschmitt Me-262 jet fighter, but at least initially they had orders not to fly beyond enemy lines lest one of their aircraft be shot down and examined, and as the war dragged on to its finale, the Luftwaffe flew fewer and fewer sorties as German fuel supplies dwindled. The first jet dogfights would have to wait for the next war.

Some Meteors were painted white during the winter of 1944:1945 for camouflage, and also so that that Allied anti-aircraft gunners wouldn't mistake them for German jets. Meteors were fired on anyway, but none were lost to "friendly fire", though there were losses due to fatal flight accidents.

The first operational jet fighter squadron was No. 616. It was given a detached flight of seven Meteor F.Mk Is when it moved to Manston, Kent in July of 1944. RAF Flying Officer Dean claimed the first V-1 to be destroyed by a jet fighter. After all four of his guns jammed, he used his wing tip to push the V-1 nose-first towards the ground. The same day another Meteor claimed a second V-1. By the end of August, the squadron was completely converted to Meteors. The first Meteor F.Mk IIIs were delivered on December 18, 1944, and these began to replace the Mk. Is. The Mk IIs had the much better Derwent turbojets, which improved performance considerably. In January of 1945, one flight from No. 616 Squadron was moved across the channel to begin operations in Belgium. The Gloster Meteor Mk. III took part in missions over Nazi Germany. However, by this time the Luftwaffe had been virtually destroyed and it never met the leading German fighters in combat.

your saying its use was limited is WRONG , it was held back from A2A yes but they used as much as they could for what it was intended for

the criteria for planes in FB DOESNT depend on having involvment in DFs

how do you explain the presence of Bombers in FB if its the A2A combat record that only should be the criteria ????

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWmeteor.jpg

XyZspineZyX
01-06-2004, 07:11 PM
Your data there backs up what I said, pretty much. If the thing were introduced to the planeset, it would most certainly not be relegated to strafing hangars.

Besides, the Tiffies, P-51s, P-47s and P-38s all did that stuff too, and probably to much greater effect than any Meteors. There is no NEED to have a Meteor if your purpose is to simulate the 1945 air/ground war. No, I bet your purpose is to "be keen" to tangle with Me262s in dogfights, with the 262s equally uninterested with finding and destroying bombers.

Exactly why I wouldn't add this plane to the set. Yes, it "flew", but as a prototype and Buzz Bomb tipper, primarily, with some experimentation in A/G.

It didn't really come into its own until Korea, where MiG-15s routinely dove through formations of them en route to attacking B-29s, prompting Aussie pilots to sing the sarcastic song, "All we want for Christmas is our wings swept back".

There is already too much interest in "joke" matchups, so-called "crap planes" and silly fantasy servers in IL-2 land. Too much choice can be a bad thing, too.

WUAF_Badsight
01-06-2004, 07:25 PM
give it up dude

it was a WW2 production fighter that seen plenty of combat

your dismissing it because it never met 262s is a laughable reason to not have it in FB

do you even realise what it is your trying to mean ??

so only planes that had A2A dogfights should be in FB ??????

if the P-40 never met a BF-109 over russia should they be not allowed to engage in a DF server for instance ????

no one said the Meteor was a great plane

more likely you just dont like jets

XyZspineZyX
01-06-2004, 08:51 PM
No. You're attempting to twist my words.

1) It did NOT see "plenty of combat". Your own sources tell of it's highly restricted use.

2) That it did not meet jets is part of my reasoning, sure...but it did not meet any enemy aircraft in a combat situation, because of its restrictions. They were likely ordered to avoid any chance they might be shot down by anything other than ack.

3) As to not "liking" jets, that's not true either. The pilot from whose name I take my call sign flew the 262 in JV44, so it's a part of my "virtual heritage" as well. Doesn't hold nearly as much interest as the Bf109 for me though. If I want to fly jets, I'll fly JETS...in Korea or later.

My biggest concern is the almost total lack of parameters for IL-2 turning it into a Nintendo game. It's already gone too far. Oleg has, for marketing reasons, not firmly guided the sim with any guidelines and boundaries, and the modding and online communities, by and large, have proven incapable of adhering to anything historical (the organized wars and a few skinners and mission makers excepted; kudos to those guys!); they just go for the quick, the silly and the downright stupid. Which is a shame, because using history as a guide and a jumping off point for *plausible* what-ifs is quite enough to create interesting, involving fare for the game system.

It's reason #1 why my flying hours are way down.

VW-IceFire
01-06-2004, 09:06 PM
Yes to Meteor (I like the idea of tactical fighter jets, and FB makes it feel VERY good)...but I'd like to see some time spent making sure that the heavily used RAF western theater aircraft get into play here. That means Lancaster, Mosquito, Typhoon, and so on (two of the three are currently in some stage of development).

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
01-06-2004, 09:34 PM
Meteor is Okay. But I would prefer more 1930s airplanes.

Just wanna say THANKS to Xanty for CR42 Biplane and whoever is doing the Gloster Gladiator.
Hope most of all for that Ki~27

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

XyZspineZyX
01-06-2004, 10:39 PM
Well, I just gotta say...

unless somebody at Maddox Games has some secret plan for the Med... you're most likely gonna see it first at Targetware (http://www.targetware.net). I'm gonna see personally to it.

The Targetware Gladiator is nearing completion, a Reggiane 2001 is getting far along, the terrain's beginning...and the planeset's gonna be devastating: CR-42s, BR-20s, SM-79s, Wellingtons, the whole crew. North Africa, Malta, Tunisia, Sicily and even Greece/Crete should be covered.

WUAF_Badsight
01-07-2004, 12:22 AM
part of games IS to play out the whats ifs

to have a Meteor & be abel to use it up against the 262 would be great


i find it difficult to believe that a person could be such a spoil sport to not want a new plane for such a dumb reason

i mean are you for real ?? ... plz tell me those posts were a joke because thats the stupidest reason ive ever heard for not including a plane

it was a 1940s design

it was produced during the war

it served in the war & saw combat

how much more freakin qualified does a plane have to be you moron

HellToupee
01-07-2004, 03:24 AM
what dose historical accuracy have to do with online dogfighting servers, nothing, its just not historially accurate, online dogfighting tends to be even even numbers and other things, when they become uneven everyone moans cept the winners, and you want historical accuracy it will always be uneven, you can always play offline.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

SECUDUS
01-07-2004, 07:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:

it was a 1940s design

it was produced during the war

it served in the war & saw combat

how much more freakin qualified does a plane have to be...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take it from me a plane needs a certain thing called "Charisma" cause if it has'nt, it won't get alook-in!

http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/WhirlySig03.jpg?0.8016962940949658

BTZ_Bonehead
01-07-2004, 08:32 AM
The meteor doesnt have charisma then?

What does that mean http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif it would be good to have a brit jet to fly agains the German one. I would like to see it in.

Any aircraft you have to shut an engine down after take off to conserve fuel and fly it asymetric has charisma in my book, like I said earlier its a lovely old bird with a bad reputation (oh sounds like one of my ex girlfriends http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif)

MB_Avro
01-07-2004, 04:50 PM
ok...I offered to PAY for an add-on aircraft....but I appeared to have wasted my time...as ever it has resulted in a flame-war by those who have opposed it.

I therefore withdraw my financial support.

Sorry to those who have supported me.
MB_Avro

SECUDUS
01-07-2004, 05:30 PM
"Message Body is a mandatory field. You must enter a value for it."

What the hell does that mean? It's stopped me from posting!



"Like I said earlier its a lovely old bird with a bad reputation (oh sounds like one of my ex girlfriends)"

And there you have it in a nutshell! A bad reputation... Once you have that attachment it's quite some job to get rid of the stigma associated with it. The Meteor like the Whirlwind has had some muck slung at it in the past and as we all know...It sticks and getting people to read about its history, its achievements and victories, its pilots praises is a very hard job! Most people only glance at the penny profiles and view it as an also ran. Sad I know unfair and unjust, but that is very much the way it goes.

To get anyone to look upon the Meteor with open eye's and see her as a Chapter in Aviation History rather than a foot note will take a lot of time.

I hope she does make it

Sec.

MB_Avro, I am sorry that you have had to offer to pay a modeler for a pleasure of flying a Meteor in FB... Why not try to find someone who will make it for free... I have had some interest from modelers willing to make us a Whirly, through a couple of threads that I posted on some 3D Forums across the web. One has offered to help already and is in contact with the forum modelers over at Netwings as I speak!

Don't give up.

Sec.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/WhirlySig03.jpg?0.8016962940949658

SECUDUS
01-08-2004, 07:59 PM
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avmeteor.html

http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/WhirlySig03.jpg?0.8016962940949658