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View Full Version : charlie's missions SUCK... please fix please fix please fix



RedGeraniumWolf
08-23-2013, 04:57 PM
I don't know about all of you but I actually love when the ai movements are unpredictable but why in blazing hells are the *******ed enemies in Charlie's missions always cluster****ing like crazy?! ive been doing perfectionist and getting a perfect ghost score of every other stage but these... please fix this, I don't want to be a beacon if ive never been detected at all

Sharkey1337
08-23-2013, 05:29 PM
You can extract after 5 waves. These missions are pure combat, you don't have to play them if you don't like them.

RedGeraniumWolf
08-28-2013, 05:50 AM
-_- le sigh, sorry about ranting, im just a ghost buff like crazy and I wanted to do the little bonus thingy for every mission where you are undetected and non-lethal, I managed to do that and complete ten waves but each time it takes me like four hours

Guglio08
08-28-2013, 10:03 AM
The missions are horrible. I hate them.

pacmanate
08-28-2013, 10:24 AM
I like them. I Ghost through SC however its nice to use the other 3/4 of the loud weapons available ;p

HEAT.GRLSOV
08-28-2013, 10:31 AM
Even though the missions are good for weapon testing / Mozambique drill and such, they feel very out of place.

But then again, every side mission type is tailored to a different playstyle.
And Charlie's are more suited to combat. (at least in later levels)

BUEZ 1
08-28-2013, 11:05 AM
What i dont like about it you cant shoot out most of the lights for a safe place to get some breathing room. Another thing is these specific mission maps are all like Call of Duty... open and fair for everyone. As if the AI needed another advantage. They already magically shift their focus area right to where you are. I'd like to see some ducts and tunnels so I can dart out and take care of the enemy and then use a sneaky route to flank them and repeat. Its no fun running down hallways all lit up by the lights you can't shoot out.

RedGeraniumWolf
08-28-2013, 12:31 PM
hmm, very much agreed. charlies missions aside it does seem like the assault style is completely unethically outmatched by the ai in this game, they should have at least made the armor you wear actually help... its not helping me at all and I have max armor ??? ...patch anyone?

RedGeraniumWolf
09-05-2013, 06:31 PM
I ****ing HATE Charlie's missions! they ****ing SUCK! I don't even want to do these ****ing missions anymore... **** this!

R6DingChavez
09-05-2013, 06:44 PM
I'd like Charlie missions better if the HVT capture was optional for better money reward or something. That way you can throw down mines without having to worry about those dumb HVTs

N4tive_S0n
09-05-2013, 06:49 PM
Yeah I decided to use these as "Combat canvasses" too. So now I have the Ceramic armor parts and rocking big guns. So it's pretty much just a combat thing for me.

Jazz117Volkov
09-05-2013, 06:53 PM
Charlie's missions do indeed suck, but not really for the reasons mentioned in OP.

1st 5 waves on Russian Embassy are great to sharpen the Panther claws.

havecold
09-05-2013, 07:07 PM
Spy vs Merc maps for Charlie MIssions!!! DO IT!!! I still like the current maps as well. Put in a window that leads to the roof or ledge to climb to h2h the snipers. I concur with the HVTs being optional.

Frag_Maniac
09-05-2013, 10:14 PM
I've 20ed 3 of the 4 Charlie's maps on Normal, and got within 15 or so of the last enemies on the 20th wave of the Russian Embassy, but the game crashed. I'm using Ceramic armor and the SC4000 with ACOG, armor piercing rounds, and laser.

SPOILER WARNING!!!
Three of these 4 maps have safe spots to hide and shoot from, and the Pakistani one needs no safe spot. It's easy to use stealth there and two spots are semi safe and near resupply crates. The safe spots are the dead drop balcony near the front entrance of the Swiss Embassy, the dead drop apt to the front left of the Egyptian Embassy, and the dead drop at the Russian Embassy at the bottom of the zip line.

The one at the Swiss Embassy is only safe if you quickly deal with the first ones that spot you. By that I mean they won't try to toss nades up there if you deal a lot of damage before they get in position to, all the better if violently so. Tossing a nade or two, esp if there's drones below, will put them behind cover instead. I have managed to hop over the balcony railing once to avoid a grenade blast, then back onto it though. Generally once suppressed they stop tossing nades though, including any others that come when re-alerted. There's ways to deal with them taking cover too. You can sometimes reach certain ones with a pistol while hanging from the ledge of the pillar near it, or drop down and quickly take out ones behind the pillar then back up. There are also many ways to use your detection ghost to lure enemies for a kill, or reset to a cooldown after they've not found you. Example, hanging from that pillar ledge and shooting an enemy dead often alerts drones to that spot, but they'll cooldown after a short while if you're out of site on the balcony. Also, just sending the Trirotor out even to a safe spot high by the ceiling across from there will alert the drones via line of sight, and enemies will come. Stay hidden on the balcony, retrieve the Trirotor before the enemies come, shoot them, rinse repeat. These maps play well with hit and run detection distractions. Even the 20th wave with 3 HVTs to capture is easy once you know tactics that work well. The 1st is always a Heavy that spawns on the balcony above the room with the resupply crate. With him are another Heavy and 2 sonar goggle guys. After lots of experimenting the tactic that worked well for me was a combo of overt combat and stealth. I'd scale the balcony just to the right, hide behind a crate near the spawn doors, take out any non HVTs I could with my SC4000, switch to the pistol and pop the HVT's helmet, switch to gas crossbow and pop the HVT, switch to SC4000 and take out any remaining and the one goggle guy that comes, cuff the HVT, hop over the balcony railing at the top of the stairs, drop down to the ledge below it, switch to gas crossbow, toss a gas grenade if the 2nd HVT in goggles comes via the far upper balcony (land it to the right of the resupply room below). By now the brief detection ghost will have netted no results with the drones and you're back at cooldown. I've even managed to gas the Heavy HVT with no detection if he's rounding the corner. The extinguisher near there can disorient him too after popping his top.I never tried tossing a gas nade at him before popping his top, but that may work better. If the 2nd HVT comes via the main floor, shoot a gas dart on the floor just before he gets to the spot by the closed door leading to the front area. Shimmy the balcony rail if he's up there and cuff him when the coast is clear, or drop down and quickly cuff him if he's on the floor (easier scenario). You can then go through that door that leads to the front area if no enemy markers are showing on the other side of it, or go up the big open window by it and hang on the other side until the coast is clear. The 3rd HVT will be a drone operator in the front entrance area somewhere. After darting and cuffing him, I rec restocking at the room with the resupply crate if it looks doable. It's usually not hard to do it via getting to either of the open windows across from it and hanging on the side the room is on until everything looks OK. Cleanup post HVTs can be done on the somewhat safe balcony as described earlier.

The enemies can't seem to manage tossing nades into the apt at the Egyptian Embassy, and you can get in a lot of shots there with a good scoped weapon, including clear across the front courtyard. You can't launch the Trirotor from there, but you can launch it from the sign nearby, which is also a good spot to mark enemies, toss gas nades, or shoot darts. Keep in mind too that you can launch the Trirotor from one spot, exit out of it and leave it hovering, then retreat to a safe spot to operate it. You won't get as much range that way though. You can also round the corner by the sign, shimmy the ledge over by the embassy entrance, and get in some good nade and dart shots there, and it's a quick pipe drop to a nearby crate on the ground under the entrance, a quick stealth dash if necessary.

The zip line hide spot at the Russian Embassy is complete safe if you manage the non heavy troops that go to the roof at the top of the zipline once you're spotted. They can toss nades onto the ledge from there, but if you shoot them first or duck all the way into the vent duct, you won't die. You can even shoot guys on that roof from inside the duct, but you have to be around the corner of it and tucked back in to survive the few nades that might get tossed. I used the SC sniper rifle from up there on I think the 19th wave, which has lots of snipers (but thankfully no drones, so you can use NV), but the 20th wave after getting the HVTs has LOTS of shield heavies that go to the roof. I used the scoped SC4000 there. Frag nades, mines and cam explosions help a lot there, which can be tossed from the zip ledge.

Whats easy about the Paki 16-20 waves is there's only 30 enemies per wave instead of the 50 that the others have in the final wave set. Wave 16-19 is literally easy. Wave 20 has 6 HVTs you need to get in 4:00, but they're all goggle guys that can be gassed, and they come to you quickly when spotted, which can help you do it in time. I literally did wave 16-19 from the crate across in the ruins placing shock mines on either side of it and using gas darts/nades and a scoped SC4000 and remained undetected most of the time. The balcony above the embassy entrance is also pretty secure, esp with shock mines placed by each door and the open window (dogs can jump thru it). Rushing to the 1st HVT on wave 20 is easy, but careful positioning is needed on the rest. It actually worked best for me if I headed straight across to the right side of the embassy in the lower room with the couches and let myself get detected shooting some non HVT goggle guys. The HVTs will then come right away. Gas the ones that come straight to (or near) that room's entrance, then do the same with the ones that come around the other way by the Geiger door. Both spots are fairly easy to safely get them cuffed, though you may have to detection or otherwise distract the few shield guys. Unlike the Swiss and Russian Embassies, the cleanup with the remaining enemies on the final wave is very easy here.

I can't stress enough that on ANY wave with lots of drones, take out as many non drone operator troops as you can via gas darts/nades, stealth suppression shots, and luring/killing BEFORE sending out the Trirotor to recon and shock the drone operators. You're just risking your Trirotor getting shot down if you don't, which is a BAD scenario if there's lots of enemies and you're not near a crate. If you're out of shock darts on your Trirotor, don't forget you can Kamikaze self destruct it for a powerful kill, just make sure you do it before it's shot down. If you spot two drone operators side by side, try to save them for a two for one self destruct kill. It's not really a good idea to shock one enemy that's near another anyway. The idea is to at least clear the immediate area between you and the nearest crate so you can safely recon to that point with the Trirotor. When equipped with sonar it can easily spot drone operators through walls too. Always get in position to the back or side before shooting if you can. Elevated shots also help avoid detection, and don't shoot too close, they'll hear it coming. As I've said before, the Trirotor is a Godsend, esp for going solo on Charlie's missions, but you have to use it carefully.
END SPOILERS

On the Swiss Embassy, the first one I've seen maligned for having too keen AI, I got gold Assault status on wave sets 11-15 and 16-20. If you want to talk about games that are beyond reproach with difficult challenges (esp solo), I would think Payday the Heist and Payday 2 would be at the top of the list regarding current gen games, esp considering your squad AI are so incompetent and you can't play most of the missions on easy mode. Their so called Normal mode is like the hardest mode of most games. These missions are plenty doable with tactics that give you half a chance though, and even more so with two skilled players in co-op. So while some may balk at the methods I've described, it's better than giving up and saying it's too hard. If you get the dreaded mem leak crash near the end of the lengthy Swiss and Russian final waves, keep in mind that after experimenting and learning better tactics, your next try will probably involve less restarts and give you a better chance of completing it before that happens. The exception might by the final wave set of the Russian Embassy. I can't see making the 20th wave any shorter, as the tactics I was already using were reasonable fast. It's just a wave with a lot of nasty action going on which can exacerbate mem leak problems.

Swiss Embassy Waves 16-20
http://imageshack.us/a/img839/9259/2wki.jpg

Dome500
09-05-2013, 10:29 PM
Yeah I hate Charlie Missions. Did some on perfectionist until wave 5, took me about 1 hour or two.

That would be no problem, the problem is however that I simply do not enjoy them. I get frustrated because I die or because of other things.

Normally, at least in all other modes of Splinter Cell, this frustration is just challenging me an pumping me and I friggin love it.

Problem is it's another form of frustration with Charlie Missions. After doing Charlie Missions I always feel like coming home from a bad work I actually don't want to do and being totally exhausted.

It's just not a single bit fun for me.

Frag_Maniac
09-05-2013, 11:10 PM
I don't know if I'll ever try Charlie's missions on Perfectionist unless they actually manage to fix this memory leak crashing problem after long sessions. Patch 1.02 claims to fix the frame rate drop after a long session, but if it was really a fix you'd think they'd also say it avoids long session crashes. Many people have said it does nothing to prevent the crashes, so I've yet to even install it. I might install it if I can 20 the Russian Embassy on Normal, which I'm already close to doing.

semajmarc87
09-05-2013, 11:49 PM
The Charlie missions are basically Ghost Recon: Future Soldier's Guerrilla Mode but in a Splinter Cell game. It seems out of place in this game.

Dome500
09-06-2013, 02:36 AM
The Charlie missions are basically Ghost Recon: Future Soldier's Guerrilla Mode but in a Splinter Cell game. It seems out of place in this game.

=> this

If I want a survival mode I play GR or an other 3rd person shooter or even a normal shooter, but it doesn't fit into SC.

I'm all for the option for Assault, but there shouldn't be a whole mission type about Assault play.

I'm all for making it possible to shoot and go in guns blazing, and "deal with the consequences" like the "Ghost, Panther, Assault" trailer said.

The fact aside that there are no consequences I think Assault should be an option, but no mode should be focused on it.

If you want to make a Assault-oriented game mode why don't you make a game mode with 2 - 4 players in a bigger map with a lot of Assault-friendly environment (in terms of cover and ways to flank, elevated positions to snipe, openness of level) and let the players decide. The more players (2, 3 or 4) the more enemies will be in the mission.

The objectives evolve around tactical (and optional stealthy) infiltration of a compound and either getting intel, extracting people, interrogating people or similar things.

Shootouts will be triggered sometimes (only SOMETIMES) and aside from that a full Ghost, Panther or Assault approach is possible.

The uniqueness comes from creating a game mode that allows for more players (2 - 4), an element as an homage to the GR or R6 series, and a factor which supports tactical Assault play and planning (supporting a ground team from an elevated position with your sniper rifle, or one team cutting the power to a facility and the other one getting in before the emergency power goes off and letting the second team in from inside) and would make for a unique game mode which still contains Splinter Cell gameplay and allows for every kind of playstyle.

VaultLegend101
09-07-2013, 12:00 AM
I'd like Charlie missions better if the HVT capture was optional for better money reward or something. That way you can throw down mines without having to worry about those dumb HVTs

With you 100%. Get rid of mandatory HVTs.

spacehamsterZH
09-07-2013, 01:24 AM
I've been playing these a bit more lately because I can't sleep at night if I don't at least complete everything in this game once, but they're the only thing I've ever played on Normal, and it just isn't fun. The more I think about, the more it seems it's just because the AI moves too fast and things get too chaotic all the time. Like most of us have said a dozen times over by now, the Charlie missions are certainly a damn sight better than Last Stand was, but they still have that exact same problem. The controls in this game are tailored for relatively slow and methodical play, and when you're being rushed by a dozen enemies from all sides sprinting at full speed, firing and throwing grenades, it just becomes unplayable. I think if something was just a little less aggressive (I dunno, smaller active radius, or have them take cover more and not sprint so much), they could be fun. When I get it right and manage to panther for a while, it's actually pretty good. And the maps are fine. It's really just an issue of the way Sam and the AI are balanced - the whole idea in every other mission type is that you have to be careful, and one guy can easily kill you if you make a mistake, so 20 guys storming an embassy and running everywhere, well, you're dead.

K0rN b4LL
09-07-2013, 01:29 AM
Sleeping gas is your best friend on Charlie's missions. Sleeping gas, sticky cams with sleeping gas, and sleeping gas crossbow bolts make knocking enemies out ghost style a piece of cake.........usually. @#$% when you get multiple HVTs at once on the later missions.

Dome500
09-07-2013, 01:37 AM
I've been playing these a bit more lately because I can't sleep at night if I don't at least complete everything in this game once, but they're the only thing I've ever played on Normal, and it just isn't fun. The more I think about, the more it seems it's just because the AI moves too fast and things get too chaotic all the time. Like most of us have said a dozen times over by now, the Charlie missions are certainly a damn sight better than Last Stand was, but they still have that exact same problem. The controls in this game are tailored for relatively slow and methodical play, and when you're being rushed by a dozen enemies from all sides sprinting at full speed, firing and throwing grenades, it just becomes unplayable. I think if something was just a little less aggressive (I dunno, smaller active radius, or have them take cover more and not sprint so much), they could be fun. When I get it right and manage to panther for a while, it's actually pretty good. And the maps are fine. It's really just an issue of the way Sam and the AI are balanced - the whole idea in every other mission type is that you have to be careful, and one guy can easily kill you if you make a mistake, so 20 guys storming an embassy and running everywhere, well, you're dead.

And this is one of the reasons (of multiple ones) why I think Charlie Missions how they are at the moment are nothing for Splinter Cell.

Of course another reason is that I do not enjoy them.

SolidSage
09-07-2013, 01:51 AM
Charlie Missions are a great challenge. Controllable early on and can be played in a very stealth like manner just like a Hunter missions, then later, a true and probably one of the most difficult challenges in the game. Just like Last Stand, this one will be the one that separates the men from the boys when it comes to achievements. Along with some SvM achievements probably.

Dome500
09-07-2013, 01:54 AM
Yeah Sage.

But did you actually realize?

There are 2 Mission types were you HAVE to engage the enemies and neutralize them somehow. (Charlie and Kobin) but only one were you do not have to do this (Grim Missions).

Interesting.... in terms of focus in Splinter Cell.....

Of course you like the Charlie Missions. And that's ok.

But I do not like them and nothing can change that as far as I see it. I can try, but I just don't enjoy them.

I know you like them, but would you be mad at the developers if they would re-create them from scratch and do something completely different? I don't think so as far as I know you. I think you would welcome the new mode and look if you like it, and if you like it be happy with it.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

And if a lot of people do not like Charlie Missions then why not make a new concept of them?

SolidSage
09-07-2013, 02:25 AM
Yeah Sage.

But did you actually realize?

There are 2 Mission types were you HAVE to engage the enemies and neutralize them somehow. (Charlie and Kobin) but only one were you do not have to do this (Grim Missions).

Interesting.... in terms of focus in Splinter Cell.....
Yes, I also noticed that there is also an entire single player campaign and an entire coop campaign where not engaging enemies can be the focus.
And when you consider that SC incorporated SvM as early as Pandora Tomorrow it's actually not interesting (in an odd way) that there are modes that encourage the Player to act in a hostile violent manner.
Original SC's were not designed with the focus on avoiding every enemy in the game. They just afforded the opportunity, similar to Blacklist.

I can understand the love for Ghosting. I can't understand the selfish desire to have an entire game cater to one single, solitary style of play. Not when the engine is one of the best on the market and can provide so much diversity and fun for everyone.


And who are these "lot of people" that don't like them? The 20 or so talking about it on this forum? Hard to consider that justification for change when Blacklist apparently sold 3 million in the first week.
You figure out how to canvass the entire community on the Charlie Missions, then, armed with that accurate factual information I can tell you whether I think it would be a good idea to change the design of them.

Gagtag1
09-07-2013, 02:34 AM
I love em tbh. The only thing I dislike is that I'm not good enough to keep it pure stealth :P Anyhow I play it on perfectionist mode, so far I've made it to wave 11 (made it to 13 but my teammate had to go). It's brilliant. It's exactly like the ghosting/panther missions except you are being hunted instead of just random guards taking positions. It's great practise for sneaking around hordes of guys and being patient. For example there could be 2 guys infront of you, it could be a perfect opportunity to take them out, but they are in the line of sight of another group. So you have to wait and let that moment pass.

I think if I get the hang of this it'd probably be one of the best modes of the game. It's just being able to avoid everything. The freaken drones and dogs are a pain, and the HVT missions break that "take your time", which can be tedious. But I enjoy them and consider it one of the best parts of the game because it forces you to be patient and stealhy in very difficult conditions.


*edit*

If you want to have fun and can sorta use your imagination to set rules for yourself, you can load a mission from 1/6/11 ect and play it ghost style. See if you can get from one end of the map to the other without being spotted. Or try to ghost groups of units as they move about and targeting specific units.
:P

Dome500
09-07-2013, 02:42 AM
Yes, I also noticed that there is also an entire single player campaign and an entire coop campaign where not engaging enemies can be the focus.
And when you consider that SC incorporated SvM as early as Pandora Tomorrow it's actually not interesting (in an odd way) that there are modes that encourage the Player to act in a hostile violent manner.
Original SC's were not designed with the focus on avoiding every enemy in the game. They just afforded the opportunity, similar to Blacklist.

I can understand the love for Ghosting. I can't understand the selfish desire to have an entire game cater to one single, solitary style of play. Not when the engine is one of the best on the market and can provide so much diversity and fun for everyone.


And who are these "lot of people" that don't like them? The 20 or so talking about it on this forum? Hard to consider that justification for change when Blacklist apparently sold 3 million in the first week.
You figure out how to canvass the entire community on the Charlie Missions, then, armed with that accurate factual information I can tell you whether I think it would be a good idea to change the design of them.

I just hate them thats all.

Don't mind people liking them.

Just trying to find a way that pleases both sides.

I don't want the "new concept" of Charlie Missions - should there ever be one - be ghost focused as well. That would be boring.

I'm just saying. Some like them some hate them ,why not rework them and find a compromise or please both with a new interesting creative idea.

Oh and yes, about single player campaign and coop campaign CAN be ghost-focused. Well, that's your POV.

SolidSage
09-07-2013, 02:52 AM
I love em tbh. The only thing I dislike is that I'm not good enough to keep it pure stealth :P Anyhow I play it on perfectionist mode, so far I've made it to wave 11 (made it to 13 but my teammate had to go). It's brilliant. It's exactly like the ghosting/panther missions except you are being hunted instead of just random guards taking positions. It's great practise for sneaking around hordes of guys and being patient. For example there could be 2 guys infront of you, it could be a perfect opportunity to take them out, but they are in the line of sight of another group. So you have to wait and let that moment pass.

I think if I get the hang of this it'd probably be one of the best modes of the game. It's just being able to avoid everything. The freaken drones and dogs are a pain, and the HVT missions break that "take your time", which can be tedious. But I enjoy them and consider it one of the best parts of the game because it forces you to be patient and stealhy in very difficult conditions.


*edit*

If you want to have fun and can sorta use your imagination to set rules for yourself, you can load a mission from 1/6/11 ect and play it ghost style. See if you can get from one end of the map to the other without being spotted. Or try to ghost groups of units as they move about and targeting specific units.
:P
I made it to wave 15 on perfectionist with Ghost amour. It's a real challenge but I do enjoy it.




I just hate them thats all.
Don't play them.


Don't mind people liking them.

Just trying to find a way that pleases both sides.

I don't want the "new concept" of Charlie Missions - should there ever be one - be ghost focused as well. That would be boring.

I'm just saying. Some like them some hate them ,why not rework them and find a compromise or please both with a new interesting creative idea.
How is a wave based scenario ever going to be able to accommodate the Pure Ghost fan? You guys need to realize that these aren't missions that the Ghost player was ignored in, they are extra content that was put into the game to utilize the potential of the engine.
Don't change Charlie Missions, just put in more Grim missions and everybody agree to stop making complaints whose only focus is taking something away from other types of players.


Oh and yes, about single player campaign and coop campaign CAN be ghost-focused. Well, that's your POV.
Okay. If you're not going to acknowledge that the majority of the missions in the game, outside of the narrative exotic sequences, can be played full Ghost then there isn't much point in us discussing further. There are simply facts about the game that cannot be ignored and still allow for mutual respect of the perspective. You DO acknowledge that the player can go through the entire game without killing anyone yes?
Yes it's not 100% of the missions, but I don't subscribe to the belief that the best game on the market should cater specifically to one type of player. Especially since I've been dusting AI since SAR. Because it was designed to afford me that option.
Cut scenes and exotic sections (explosive egress) aside, I find the Ghost aspect to be very rewarding and fulfilling. I don't spend all my time in one sitting playing that way though because it gets monotonous.

Dome500
09-07-2013, 03:01 AM
How is a wave based scenario ever going to be able to accommodate the Pure Ghost fan? You guys need to realize that these aren't missions that the Ghost player was ignored in, they are extra content that was put into the game to utilize the potential of the engine.
Don't change Charlie Missions, just put in more Grim missions and everybody agree to stop making complaints whose only focus is taking something away from other types of players.

Say Sage... no offense but... can't you read?

This was a comprehension fail there.

I said I do NOT want a possible "new concept" of Charlies Missions to be ghost focused. NOT.
I rather thought of something more open. Hell I even wouldn't mind a creative new idea that fits into the universe and has action elements, as long as it is no wave mission game mode.

I mean this wouldn't all be so bad if you had 3 Charlie Missions, but you have 4 Missions - Grim and Kobin Missions are only 3 each (DLC doesn't count).


e, outside of the narrative exotic sequences

And that's my problem.

Aside from that, looking at the pure non-narrative influenced gameplay parts you are right.

Talvos
09-07-2013, 06:15 AM
I have no problem with how the missions play out as they are currently, that's my opinion, like the rest of you are giving. Honestly if you don't like them, you do not have to play them, move on to something else, don't sit and complain about a perfectly fine part of the game that isn't tailored to your play style.

Frag_Maniac
09-07-2013, 07:23 AM
For the hell of it I've been Ghosting my way thru this Realistic run with Gold on every mission so far except Abandoned Mill. Since I left all but the last enemies with Briggs undisturbed without detection, I have to assume the only reason I didn't get gold is Briggs killed the last goggle guy before I could zap him with the stun gun. No detection btw from those goons either. So IMO the way Ghost style is scored isn't always very sensible. I'm also finding the levels go very fast with Ghost style (except Special Missions HQ so far), and once you know good routes and patrol timing, there's not much replay value in it.

Thus I find these mission types a refreshing change of pace, but you CAN Ghost them too if you really want to and are good at it. My only gripe is the dreaded threat of a mem leak crash starts weighing heavy on you if you can't get the tougher wave sets done in a pretty good time, and wouldn't you know it, they decided to add rain effects to the final wave of the Russian Embassy just to make that harder top avoid. Next time I try it will be in Dx9 mode with just Field AO. If that doesn't work maybe patch 1.02 will. A great game, I'd say 8.5/10, but released in unstable condition.

LazyyAmerican
09-07-2013, 07:57 AM
Am I the only one who likes these missions? I can see they have huge potential with the right teammates....it's only an invitation to Call of Duty if you decide to play that way. Tossing down a proximity mine then moving to a flanking position for other enemies feels pretty awesome.

KenTWOu
09-07-2013, 08:17 AM
I'd like Charlie missions better if the HVT capture was optional for better money reward or something...
I'd like these missions better if HVTs don't have a seriously annoying time limit. Also Swiss Embassy level design isn't good for a stealth player.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
09-07-2013, 08:23 AM
I'd like these missions better if HVTs don't have a seriously annoying time limit. Also Swiss Embassy level design isn't good for a stealth player.

So far the worst one is Russian Embassy -- the HVTs at wave 10 are annoying! Separate sides of the map...they don't move around and are drone operators. Plus all the enemies are dogs and other drone operators and snipers with the annoying time limit. I barely got it only recently but I was playing alone. With a partner...I'm sure it'd be easier since we could go on separate sides of the map to take the HVTs out.

KenTWOu
09-07-2013, 08:34 AM
I barely got it only recently but I was playing alone. With a partner...I'm sure it'd be easier since we could go on separate sides of the map to take the HVTs out.
I think they should make few tweaks for one player mode. Give us more time or one HVT instead of two.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
09-07-2013, 08:38 AM
I think they should make few tweaks for one player mode. Give us more time or one HVT instead of two.

Agreed. I think one HVT makes the most sense though extra time would be good too. Maybe in a patch? I doubt this is something that'll get addressed though. I assume they'll focus on multiplayer things the most.

Frag_Maniac
09-07-2013, 08:58 AM
@Lazy,
You clearly haven't read all the posts if you think you're the only one that likes these missions.

@ All talking about HVTs,
I don't see a problem with the HVT waves for the most part. Some HVT waves are even staggered enough from one HVT to another to allow for exploiting more than one of them at their spawn point for an easy capture. Sure they're challenging, esp since spawn points are semi random, but there are certain tactics that work consistently well.

Wave 20 of the Russian Embassy is quite tough though. There's 4 HVTs to capture in 3:00, 3 goggle guys, and one drone operator, and there's drones, dogs, snipers, and heavies all over the place, including shield heavies. Then after you capture the HVTs there's at least 35 guys left, with a crap load of heavies, LOTS of shield guys too.

I experimented on one of the waves prior to wave 20 at the Russian Embassy, it's one that has lots of heavies too, but no drones. I was letting myself be spotted on the ground level below a good vantage point on the roof, then slipping away to head to the roof so I could pop their tops easier. Inevitably I wound up taking them on from cover at the ground level in some pretty heated battles. I did it even without incendiary grenades, but later found them to be quite effective on shield guys.

Jazz117Volkov
09-07-2013, 10:17 AM
u r all n00bs, Charlie missions best.














Said no one, ever.

Harbi-117
09-07-2013, 11:21 AM
^
I freaking love Charlies missions on [ Ghost / Perfectionist ], in my opinion of course, maybe because I've never played any map other than Pakistani Embassy or got over wave 5. Plus, I encounter the same enemy types I get in Kobin missions.

I find these missions more tense than Kobin's because I'm being hunted rather than being the hunter.
Guards are on search mode from the start & because of that, they don't have any readable patrol route, I always go: "after he finishes his search animation, is he going to continue forward? is he going to turn right? or is he going turn around?" making me think my every move, double checking if the guard is alone or not.

---

Ok, just to test it out, I tried to Ghost one of Charlies missions on Perfectionist...

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2805/9689622807_a4780052ca_o.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3706/9689623633_7b6899308b_o.jpg

The first 5 waves were a blast to play without being detected, usually takes me about about 40 minutes to complete, then the game mode started to get geared toward aggressive & action play styles.

After wave 6, I started using my non-lethal gadgets [ shock mine / sleeping gas / crossbow ]... then I started feeling I wasn't enjoying it. Sure I was "Ghost" according to the game but it wasn't fun, throwing shock mines & sleeping gas on guards & being aggressive with my play style, I started to play the "game-mode" not "splinter cell", trapping A.I spawn doors with mines & using my crossbow to get the quick first 6 or 8 knockouts... I became the hunter rather than the hunted.

So The first 5 waves are geared towards Ghost players, definitely, and the rest of the waves are for Panther / Action players.

--------------

Rather than being like "we don't like this game mode, it sucks", give the developers ideas to work on for the next Splinter Cell to make this game mode geared towards Ghost players too, rather than the game telling me "okay, this is wave 5, you had your fun ghost player, now get out. The next waves aren't for you :/ "

Ideas: (again, I only played the Pakistani Embassy mission)

- Take out the stupid HVT gameplay mechanic from these missions, or take out the stupid timer.

- Too much guards for us Ghost players. You need to make the game detect our play style mid game & change the A.I on the fly, rather than choosing our play style from the main menu.

- Kinda small maps, so if you spawn a lot of A.I, they populate the map quickly, not giving you room to knock out guards without being spotted.

- Special waves, only spawning unique enemy types in the map & in low quantity.

- and umm... boss waves! YES!! that will make an excellent addition to the game! A boss wave against an armored tank with it's health bar displayed on the screen. You can distract it with the sticky cam & use the water puddle to your advantage. Sam fisher, Always one step ahead of his enemies.

Chacha1017
09-07-2013, 12:00 PM
I'm trying to figure out the issue here... You have Grim missions, which are primarily ghost focused (I still play them panther style cause panther is win), you've got Briggs Missions, which are any playstyle, Charlie's, which focus mostly on Assault/Panther, and then Kobin's, which are Ghost/Panther focused with the option to turn it into assault.

I am going to pretend I am an assault player and get butthurt now because clearly Ghost and Panther get more missions than me QQ BAWWWWWWW

BoBwUzHeRe1138
09-07-2013, 12:48 PM
I'm trying to figure out the issue here... You have Grim missions, which are primarily ghost focused (I still play them panther style cause panther is win), you've got Briggs Missions, which are any playstyle, Charlie's, which focus mostly on Assault/Panther, and then Kobin's, which are Ghost/Panther focused with the option to turn it into assault.

I am going to pretend I am an assault player and get butthurt now because clearly Ghost and Panther get more missions than me QQ BAWWWWWWW

Go home.

spacehamsterZH
09-07-2013, 01:40 PM
And who are these "lot of people" that don't like them? The 20 or so talking about it on this forum?

You bring up a good point here. It would be really interesting to know if Ubisoft had any data on how often people played Last Stand in Conviction, what that data was and how it impacted the development of the Charlie missions. Obviously they would know how many people got the various Last Stand achievements, but that's only half the answer; a lot of people may have spent a lot of time playing them without getting the achievements. What I'm wondering is, were the Charlie missions included because Last Stand was more popular than we think, or was Last Stand really the least played mode in Conviction (as most of us seem to assume, and I know it was for me), and the changes in the Charlie missions were an attempt to respond to that? Given that I don't think there's been a single person, at least on here, who said they wish they'd put an EMP generator to defend in the middle of every Charlie map, I'd say at least they've definitely succeeded at improving over LS.

Also, I'd love to know what it is that bothers people about the HVTs. I'm glad there's at least something to do in these missions other than trying to stay alive.

mamasan78
09-07-2013, 02:04 PM
You bring up a good point here. It would be really interesting to know if Ubisoft had any data on how often people played Last Stand in Conviction, what that data was and how it impacted the development of the Charlie missions. Obviously they would know how many people got the various Last Stand achievements, but that's only half the answer; a lot of people may have spent a lot of time playing them without getting the achievements. What I'm wondering is, were the Charlie missions included because Last Stand was more popular than we think, or was Last Stand really the least played mode in Conviction (as most of us seem to assume, and I know it was for me), and the changes in the Charlie missions were an attempt to respond to that? Given that I don't think there's been a single person, at least on here, who said they wish they'd put an EMP generator to defend in the middle of every Charlie map, I'd say at least they've definitely succeeded at improving over LS.

Also, I'd love to know what it is that bothers people about the HVTs. I'm glad there's at least something to do in these missions other than trying to stay alive.

SCC: Last stand, I think I did 3 waves and then NEVER touched it AGAIN.
What I don't like about Embassy missions and HVTs is that it forces you to come out of cover, trying to capture a guy that is usually surrounded by 5 others coming from different directions and if you are spotted...you got 20 hostiles coming to smack you up, beat you, spit on you, piss on you, chew on you, blow up next to you. All of that because one guy thought he saw something. 2 drone operators as HVTs, that is SO annoying. If I could, I would nuke em instead.

I don't know why Tower defense and similar stuff is popular now, like these Embassy missions. It's like going back to the 80s and taking the least interesting feature and making it the centerpiece.

Jazz117Volkov
09-07-2013, 03:24 PM
The first 5 waves were a blast to play without being detected, usually takes me about about 40 minutes to complete, then the game mode started to get geared toward aggressive & action play styles.Indeed; I often jump into Russian Embassy, and drop the 1st five waves all ghost/panther like. It IS fun, but overall, the missions just get super repetitive and dull after a while.

Personally, I don't think they're a bad idea, and the execution was fair, they're just not to my liking for extended periods. :)

Knot3D
09-07-2013, 05:16 PM
Save for a handful co op Charlie missions I kept away from Charlie missions so far, but I just tried the Swiss Embasy map in Amman on Perfectionist

First 4 waves were OK. Then wave 5 comes along and they expect me to bring in 2 HVT's within 2 and half minutes. The stupid thing is, even the Grim voice over only mentions 1 HVT.

Anyway, by that time, frustration set in and I realized attempt after attempt was a waste of my precious time.

spacehamsterZH
09-07-2013, 05:42 PM
What I don't like about Embassy missions and HVTs is that it forces you to come out of cover

Knock them out with sleeping gas, take everyone else down, go in, bag & tag. You don't have to come out of cover.

mamasan78
09-07-2013, 06:13 PM
Knock them out with sleeping gas, take everyone else down, go in, bag & tag. You don't have to come out of cover.

Yeah, I usually did use sleeping gas. But I still have to run over to them.

1. Dogs will sniff my scent.
2. Other drone operators cars might be on my tail.
3. AI might spawn right next to HVT
4. I'm surrounded and snipers cover my escape routes.

Sometimes it is all 4 of the above.

Now, if I could lure the HVT to some spot where I'm not surrounded, that would be fun and interesting etc.

Anyway, pointless discussion for me. If they removed Charlie-missions from the game, I wouldn't miss them one bit.

Dog 0f War
09-07-2013, 11:24 PM
Charlie Missions are very challenging, but make no mistake...
They can all be done 100% Ghost you have to not strike when you get spotted, lose them then proceed when you hear them say search for him or them.
I do not strike when I get detected, I run hide wait then I go back into stealth mode.
It is the most challenging thing in this game in my opinion, best hoard mode ever to be created...

If you do not maintain your stealth then it is your fault not the game or the mode.

spacehamsterZH
09-08-2013, 12:56 AM
Yeah, I usually did use sleeping gas. But I still have to run over to them.

1. Dogs will sniff my scent.
2. Other drone operators cars might be on my tail.
3. AI might spawn right next to HVT
4. I'm surrounded and snipers cover my escape routes.

Sometimes it is all 4 of the above.

Oh.

Well, see, I've never played a Charlie mission past wave 5.

Or more than once.

So... you know.

aznassassin159
09-08-2013, 01:07 AM
And who are these "lot of people" that don't like them? The 20 or so talking about it on this forum? Hard to consider that justification for change when Blacklist apparently sold 3 million in the first week.
Woah woah woah...3 million? In one week?

No disrespect mate but you mind, uh, giving me some links to that? Because from what I've been reading, it sold around 500k to a million during that week.

I mean, yeah, the game's great and all, but 3 million in one week? That's the kind of number you see with those roided-up AAA fall releases. Even an ultra-hyped blockbuster title like AC3 barely scrapped by the 3 million mark in its opening week, and Far Cry 3 fell even further behind that.

OT: Like spacehamster, I've never really played Charlie missions more than once. Just did them for the cool-looking armor and that's it. I will agree with Jazz and say that Russian Embassy was definitely fun at times, but nothing that I would enthusiastically return to.

Frag_Maniac
09-08-2013, 01:55 AM
Woah woah woah...3 million? In one week?

No disrespect mate but you mind, uh, giving me some links to that? Because from what I've been reading, it sold around 500k to a million during that week.

He's way off, even Conviction sold only about 2 mill total, and certainly not all in the first week.

According to VGChartz, Blacklist would be at just over 500,000 copies first week (roughly 506,000). That's if you adjust the PC version with the commonly used 3.5 : 1 ratio. By that I mean the chart doesn't show download versions, which are roughly 78% of PC sales, or about 3.5 times that of retail.


http://www.vgchartz.com/article/251275/weekly-sales-analysis-24-august-saints-row-iv-splinter-cell-blacklist-disney-infinity/

RedGeraniumWolf
09-08-2013, 07:15 AM
Im sorry I wont be able to quote all of the comments here cause I did see very good points and ideas

all in all I see many people with a distaste for Charlie missions and other few who either say they like them or just that these missions are 'doable' ...doesn't make me feel very good
I did all four of charlies missions up to wave ten undetected and non-lethal for ghost mastery... it took me two to four hours each and I did not enjoy any! of it. I am not bragging I mean I used some of the cheapest tactics for these missions on ghost which im not proud of but I felt it was the only way to get through them. they are certainly 'doable' but just that doesn't make them fun in any sense.
'doable' means you can do it but you wont like it

clearly people who are fans were not really ready and did not expect blacklist to have an assault mode which is likely what charlies missions are intended for but even then they need work, im sure most people can agree the armor... DOES NOT HELP ONE BIT, I die just as quickly with a ghost loadout (full stealth, no armor) as with an assault loadout (no stealth, full armor) and upgrading the infirmary to level 2 did ****. yeah, it needs work (anything centered on assault I mean) but understandably so, like I said fans did not expect it and this was the first attempt at something new in the sc series geared toward much more action

to reiterate: grims missions are ghost/panther oriented; lets face it, undetected is kinda hard to assault. charlies are assault oriented since you have the same issues with ghost and panther playstyles in these missions namely that issue of being drawn out of cover by those pesky hvts but generally by a plethora of hostiles who have an unlimited range of vision once you've been detected (and don't tell me you can break line of sight cause once you do here come the snipers, dogs, grenades, bots and heavies ready to **** your **** up quick and all in such a space that is tailored to flanking maneuvers by assault entities (I say entities because im referring to people playing assault and the ai as well), ducts and other passages would have been a great addition just like the svm stages are designed for ALL playstyles not just ghost). kobins are panther/assault oriented and so are briggs missions and ill tell you why.. ghost primarily is ment to be played in the style of a phantom, meaning that you leave absolutely no trace of your presence, I wouldn't really consider knocking someone out ghost since there is now a body and its kinda just like panther only non-lethal so with that out of the way lets move on... if the point of ghost is to leave no trace then why risk sending TWO operatives on the SAME mission when the best option for ghost is less risk? besides that there are far too many instances in briggs missions where any kind of stealth just isn't an option. obviously if coop is incorporated the most stealth youre gonna get is panther so that is understandable however that doesn't take away the fact that most of the game is geared toward this new style of play... assault. (im not mentioning the campaign cause that CAN be played all three different playstyles with a good balance of specific playstyle-focused moments (good times :))

I think including more players (up to four) in charlies missions would have been an amazing addition, kinda like multiplayer survival kinda thing cause I don't believe anybody misses that emp generator either, it really would be like a small squad behind enemy lines performing guerrilla tactics, awesome
it kinda sucks that I only have three grim missions so far but even four might not be enough for me since I love the ghost playstyle (panther too)

Frag_Maniac
09-08-2013, 09:51 AM
...clearly people who are fans were not really ready and did not expect blacklist to have an assault mode which is likely what charlies missions are intended for but even then they need work, im sure most people can agree the armor... DOES NOT HELP ONE BIT, I die just as quickly with a ghost loadout (full stealth, no armor) as with an assault loadout (no stealth, full armor) and upgrading the infirmary to level 2...

Not surprising Ghost fanatics say that because they're used to playing Ghost in sp, where stealth is much easier, then they get in a map where it's not and they insist the tactics they're not used to are flawed. I've had no trouble using ceramic armor and got gold assault on the two hardest wave sets of the Swiss Embassy. Body armor is not supposed to be like having your own personal tank. These maps also play fine via Panther style. Why do you guys keep insisting they're Assault maps just because things go south for you when attempting Ghost style?

The reality is, these maps can play a variety of ways. Ghost is not hard the first wave set, then Panther the next, then Panther or Assault the last. You can call them strictly Assault maps, but you're only showing YOUR limitations by it, not the game's.

Knot3D
09-08-2013, 11:18 AM
The reality is, these maps can play a variety of ways. I don't think anyone really claimed otherwise.

I went into the Swiss Embassy map, Perfectionist mode - solo, I scaled my playstyle in sync with the consecutive waves. All goes well up to wave 4.

Then, the game prompts me to bag two HVT's within 2.5 minutes.

Obviously, this number of HVT's is based on the fact they designed this for 2 player co op, each player grabs 1 HVT.

However, I find it to be a shortcoming of the game when someone plays this map solo, the HVT count doesn't scale with it from 2 to 1.
Especially within the 2.5 minutes time constraint, the requirement to bag 2 HVT's as a solo operative becomes a bit unreasonable.

Unreasonable because, this double HVT time restraint, will force the player out of even the slightest form of cover ; forcing it beyond
the threshold of what even Panther aggro stealth can do.

So, when the gameplay reaches that point. It doesn't show the limitations of my stealth play, it only shows my frustration & limitation at full-on fragtastic action assault gameplay.

Dome500
09-08-2013, 12:51 PM
I agree with Knot and RedGeraniumWolf => A new concept of the Charlie Missions might open the mode more up and make it less problematic also in solo.

The time constrains for HVT's are very problematic for a single player.

I would like to have a reworked version of Charlie Missions.

Either more a group/squat oriented survival mode or (my first choice) some kind of 2 - 4 players mission mode with big maps and room and environment (cover) for tactical play and with an environment that supports Assault play but makes Ghost or at least Panther fairly possible.

Of cause you can move in, 4 man squat and go all Assault.

No reinforcements or punishment for alarms or anything similar. Full 5th Freedom.

Move in, fulfill your objective (steal objects, escort targets, clear and area, take over a building, something that ties good into the story and allows for Assault and Panther play (I don't need a support for Ghost play necessarily).

just my opinion of course but I think that would be a lot more fun.

havecold
09-08-2013, 05:20 PM
4 player(optional 1 player) coop............... Droooooool............. We can do it on the SvM maps!!! Would be too easy if everybody used gadgets though. On perfectionist would probably be ok. With 20 waves gadgets and ammo would force some h2h cooperation. And double the enemies oh yes!

OMG iTzZ ANDY x
09-10-2013, 12:36 AM
hmm i got the trophy for charlies missions on co op and my team mate was useless seeing as im crap aswell im amazed i did them all lol but i will never do them again grim and briggs missions are more intresting and have a replay value

SolidSage
09-10-2013, 01:17 AM
Also, I'd love to know what it is that bothers people about the HVTs. I'm glad there's at least something to do in these missions other than trying to stay alive.
Something to do other than just survive right.



Woah woah woah...3 million? In one week?
No disrespect mate but you mind, uh, giving me some links to that? Because from what I've been reading, it sold around 500k to a million during that week.
Looks like you are right. Looking at VG charts I can't find numbers above 1/2 million for the first week. I'm not sure if it tracks digital sales.



He's way off, even Conviction sold only about 2 mill total, and certainly not all in the first week.

According to VGChartz, Blacklist would be at just over 500,000 copies first week (roughly 506,000). That's if you adjust the PC version with the commonly used 3.5 : 1 ratio. By that I mean the chart doesn't show download versions, which are roughly 78% of PC sales, or about 3.5 times that of retail.
Yeah, chicks man.

KevinPDZ0916
09-10-2013, 01:57 AM
I love the Charlie missions, tbh. My favorites are Egyptian Embassy and Russian Embassy. So fun with a coop partner. It's intense and is such an improvement over Last Stand. It reminds me of Gears of War, but that's ok because it breaks up the normal gameplay flow, and I love the horde-style because it allows me to experiment with all 3 playstyles at once. Before the game released, I really hoped that Charlie would not have many missions and that DLC would not provide many new Charlie missions, but after playing them I really want more Charlie missions for DLC.

Frag_Maniac
09-10-2013, 02:01 AM
IAll goes well up to wave 4.

Then, the game prompts me to bag two HVT's within 2.5 minutes.

You get more like 3:00 on Normal, but you have to bag 3 HVTs, not two, and I did it by myself no problem using tactics that probably would have worked on Perfectionist. The first to spawn is a heavy near another Heavy and two goggle guys. Then there's a goggle HVT and a drone operator HVT.

Are you guys that complain about HVT waves even nabbing the first one quickly like I've been suggesting repeatedly? Even if they spawn near others as in the 20th wave of the Swiss Embassy, they're all so brain dead when they spawn you can easily dispatch them and bag the HVT real fast.

Sometimes you get lucky and two goggle guys will spawn one behind the other way down at the end of a hallway from where you're hiding behind a crate and you can kill them before they even exit the door. Once I reacted too quickly with the first Heavy HVT that spawned, popping his helmet and gassing him immediately. I could see his Capture marker as I went to the end of the hallway to the door he was spawning at, but then I realized I'd actually incapacitated him on the spawn side of the door, and there he lay snoozing with the door shut. LOL

You want to talk tough HVT waves, try the 20th wave at the Russian Embassy. The 20th at the Swiss Embassy is like a walk in the park by comparison.

Dome500
09-10-2013, 01:20 PM
I still don't like the mode. Maybe a little variety (one mission being a "survival mission" and another one more being a "tactical operation") would be a good compromise?

Frag_Maniac
09-12-2013, 09:20 PM
I still don't like the mode. Maybe a little variety (one mission being a "survival mission" and another one more being a "tactical operation") would be a good compromise?

It's clearly setup as a survival mode and Grim tells you that at the onset. If that is not to your liking, you're setting yourself up for disappointment playing them. She also points out that the whole point of surviving is not just to wait for the chopper, but to try and get intel, which can be obtained not just from HVTs, but laptops and dead drops as well. The latter being where it gets interesting, because most dead drop locations in those missions also provide pretty safe spots to retreat to and covertly snipe from, launch the Trirotor, etc. So it IS in fact a "tactical operation" as well.

It's common that small Seal teams go in vs large assault teams to extract intel or HVTs. This is just an exaggeration of that with one person (or two in co-op), doing pretty much the same thing, while dispatching waves of enemies however you choose. Get good at it and you are the hunter, not the hunted, and it can start feeling like THEY are the ones trying to survive, as they say "fall back", and take cover. This is largely because they pace the spawns well, vs overwhelming you.

I really don't get why so many here cry foul about it, it's just 4 missions out of the possible 29 total in the game. I also don't think a lot of the ones complaining about them have even tried using the more effective tactics yet. Even with Assault biased tactics there's a LOT of stealth you can use.

Just completed the 16-20 waves of the Russian Embassy. Took about 2 hrs. I'm going to try Charlie's Missions solo on Realistic next. As you can see by the Panther points in this score, much of it was done covertly and safely. In fact it felt like MOST of it was covert, time wise anyway.
http://imageshack.us/a/img716/8623/osi7.jpg

SolidSage
09-13-2013, 05:24 PM
OMG, I LOVE this mode!
Swiss Embassy is SUCH a beach but I can't fight the addiction.

Charlie Missions are a Panther's Paradise. It's like a marriage of Hunter and Last Stand gave birth to Thor!!!
As I've said elsewhere, just getting to your partner to heal them is harder on Realistic, than butchering an entire level of AI was in SCC. The challenge bar has been raised so high with this mode, the combination of AI types and waves and Map restrictions makes it such an exercise in masochistic devotion that I can't stop pursuing.

Seriously my favorite mode of the game right now. And no, not because I'm Casual Assault, because once you get to the higher waves (17-20 [Swiss Embassy specifically]) Assault gets you nothing but a shallow grave.

Lethal Stealth is the only route to success I have discovered at the higher waves and I STILL haven't managed to get to Wave 20 on S.E yet! But I will, and I'm loving every minute of it :)


The best thing about this mode is that when it gets really hard, it really demands that I play smarter and try to master not only my entire set of tools, but all of the skills at my disposal. It's certainly not a mode for the short term player, or the one that can't tolerate a stress test of their will but for me and my +1, Charlie's Missions are perhaps the most demanding, and thereby, most rewarding of the entire package.
Sadly, Spies vs Mercs isn't going be getting much of my tie for the foreseeable future now, not with this massively addictive challenge calling to me. Not a biggie considering I'm not that good at SvM anyway ;)
Lord, the amount of times I've died alone has really made me able to see how beautiful the death and falling animations are, Performance Capture has done so much for us :)


I would REALLY love to see some DLC maps for this mode UbiTo, along with maps for other modes of course.

G.I..Jane
09-13-2013, 05:43 PM
OMG, I LOVE this mode!
Swiss Embassy is SUCH a beach but I can't fight the addiction.

Charlie Missions are a Panther's Paradise. It's like a marriage of Hunter and Last Stand gave birth to Thor!!!
As I've said elsewhere, just getting to your partner to heal them is harder on Realistic, than butchering an entire level of AI was in SCC. The challenge bar has been raised so high with this mode, the combination of AI types and waves and Map restrictions makes it such an exercise in masochistic devotion that I can't stop pursuing.

Seriously my favorite mode of the game right now. And no, not because I'm Casual Assault, because once you get to the higher waves (17-20 [Swiss Embassy specifically]) Assault gets you nothing but a shallow grave.

Lethal Stealth is the only route to success I have discovered at the higher waves and I STILL haven't managed to get to Wave 20 on S.E yet! But I will, and I'm loving every minute of it :)


The best thing about this mode is that when it gets really hard, it really demands that I play smarter and try to master not only my entire set of tools, but all of the skills at my disposal. It's certainly not a mode for the short term player, or the one that can't tolerate a stress test of their will but for me and my +1, Charlie's Missions are perhaps the most demanding, and thereby, most rewarding of the entire package.
Sadly, Spies vs Mercs isn't going be getting much of my tie for the foreseeable future now, not with this massively addictive challenge calling to me. Not a biggie considering I'm not that good at SvM anyway ;)
Lord, the amount of times I've died alone has really made me able to see how beautiful the death and falling animations are, Performance Capture has done so much for us :)


I would REALLY love to see some DLC maps for this mode UbiTo, along with maps for other modes of course.


+1 SolidSage

But I think you are one of the (happy) few who gets his kicks out of the Charlie Missions, most ppl don't like the COD type of gameplay
or just aren't quick enough when roaming the map or can't handle the stress and fastness, especially on the higher levels, I know, because
I'm one of them... I did try but i just ain't good at it, keep dying because I'm just too darn slow, enemies everywhere I get stressed and make
mistakes after another quickly and once detected it's hell on earth even quicker... this gameplay just isn't meant for Splinter Cell Ops.

More 100% Stealth maps is what we need!

SolidSage
09-13-2013, 06:03 PM
+1 SolidSage

But I think you are one of the (happy) few who gets his kicks out of the Charlie Missions, most ppl don't like the COD type of gameplay
or just aren't quick enough when roaming the map or can't handle the stress and fastness, especially on the higher levels, I know, because
I'm one of them... I did try but i just ain't good at it, keep dying because I'm just too darn slow, enemies everywhere I get stressed and make
mistakes after another quickly and once detected it's hell on earth even quicker... this gameplay just isn't meant for Splinter Cell Ops.

More 100% Stealth maps is what we need!
I may be one of the few but I don't think it's fair to compare it to CoD. It can be played that way but that's not a good route to success on higher difficulties at all. At the higher levels it really demands high paced Panther stealth, avoiding an LKP is Priority number one if you don't want the map raining down fury on you.

The challenge is very high, but with that comes high reward after success.

I don't expect everyone to like, or complete the maps in this mode but for me it is an inclusion that is a pure emphasis of what the Panther Method is all about.

In short, SplinterCell is about NOT getting detected, so if you do, it is going to be hard, especially since this mode (on Realistic and above at least) punishes Assault with such vengeance. The game play is specifically catered to SplinterCell Ops, but YOU have to do it right to experience success.
My team has been doing well when the less Panther adept player, uses Sonar to mark enemies while the violent player takes them down ASAP. Then Intel player uses Drone to hunt down RC operators ASAP when required while Violent player id's AI with the naked eye and sets about dropping stragglers.
If you get an alert or an LKP, new sub waves hit the map with more aggressive search patterns. You simply HAVE to avoid that at all costs.

One LKP is a MAJOR foul up and can get the entire mission scrubbed quick sharp.

Charlie Mission = Play serious or go home :D


BUT, it's just 4 maps, there's loads of other content to satisfy all kinds of players. It really shouldn't be a problem if a couple of Charlie Maps come as DLC along with maps for all the other modes as well should it?

Frag_Maniac
09-13-2013, 06:05 PM
Seriously my favorite mode of the game right now. And no, not because I'm Casual Assault, because once you get to the higher waves (17-20 [Swiss Embassy specifically]) Assault gets you nothing but a shallow grave.

Lethal Stealth is the only route to success I have discovered at the higher waves and I STILL haven't managed to get to Wave 20 on S.E yet!

Depends a lot on your tactics Sage. This is wave 17-20 at the Swiss Embassy solo. I'm pretty sure the same tactics will work just as effectively on Realistic too. It's all about finding a good spot to rain hell on them from.

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/9259/2wki.jpg

SolidSage
09-14-2013, 09:36 PM
Just completed Wave 20 of Swiss Embassy on Realistic. 44000+ points, somewhere around 4000 on the leaderboards (fog Sandman). Got Gold Ghost and Assault but somehow missed out on Panther which sucked.

Noisemaker for the shield heavies works like a charm, and making sure to eliminate the dogs as priority before bothering with the other AI is a big factor in maintaining full stealth profile throughout the entire wave.

darksavior1977
09-14-2013, 11:16 PM
I roll only with the SC weapons and the Stealthiest suit, because I didn't notice anything about maxing armor other than enemies detect you like you are wearing pots and pans. The armor not once has helped me live any appreciable or noticeable amount longer, it just destroys stealth, making it impossible to sneak up on commandos. With the weapons, there are literally no weapons that are in league with the SC versions, not even close, so there is no reason to use anything else. I actually own a Beretta PX4 Storm and was pretty excited to see it in game, but the stats on it and anything other than modded SC weapons are awful by comparison. The D50 doesn't even do better damage, so on top of not being suppressed it is also weak...mmm compelling choice NOT!. So yeah, once you have the stealthiest suit and the SC weapons, itemization is over.

I tried making a combat build and an assault build, but the armor stat does nothing.

Oh and shotguns suck bad. The slug wouldn't be too bad except it misses from only a little way away, and the flechette is lame. It is a pointless weapon when you can get the SC4000 modded up for max damage and each bullet does that, and you can set it to burst fire. The shotgun is completely irrelevant.

Don't get me wrong, on the whole I love the game, but there are some design choices that make customization a one right way type of scenario. The SC gear beats all in any situation, and Shotguns lose to anything else in every situation, instead of different things having a place in which they do well, so it looks like there is more there than what realistically and practically ends up being there.

Viking68853
09-14-2013, 11:47 PM
Sam need a mask in the next part Splinter Cell,without it, it looks like hell knows who, and so that the mask was possible to put in gear

Frag_Maniac
09-15-2013, 12:22 AM
I never found the armor doesn't help argument to be valid. The stealth suit always = instant death, not so with ceramic.

SolidSage
09-15-2013, 02:46 AM
^ Not for me, I go full Ghost suit, lets me run right up on the heavies and shield guys with no alert. You do die fast as heck though, so you gots to put them down fast.


We just completed Egyptian Embassy, fairly decent run. Russian embassy next then on to Perfectionist :)

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t406/rwpierce9/temporary_zpsf5fa1f32.jpg

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t406/rwpierce9/temporary_zps0c2a2695.jpg

Sorry for the blur!

G.I..Jane
09-15-2013, 05:35 PM
Really hope you don't play it in that quality! ;)

yoda102010
09-15-2013, 06:11 PM
the final charlie mission i got to wave 10 solo then got to to wave 15 coop. iv'e been trying solo to get it finished hit wave 20 tonight and got the numbers down to 14 and i got killed i spent so much time trying to beat it it's not funny. it needs a option if your at wave 20 after a lot of getting killed you need a save system where you write in a save name for the game so you leave and come back to it at level 20.

Frag_Maniac
09-15-2013, 08:55 PM
^ Not for me, I go full Ghost suit, lets me run right up on the heavies and shield guys with no alert. You do die fast as heck though...

Yeah well you die a LOT quicker if they're ALL aiming at you, vs playing with a partner. LOL

Lunytunes
09-15-2013, 10:48 PM
Those missions are weapon try outs as I call them. They're not to be taken serious. I run around slapping the AI with my D50 and shooting the dogs as much as I can. They're basically endurance rounds on Perfectionist.

Frag_Maniac
09-15-2013, 11:29 PM
Those missions are weapon try outs as I call them. They're not to be taken serious. I run around slapping the AI with my D50 and shooting the dogs as much as I can. They're basically endurance rounds on Perfectionist.

That's seriously belittling them when you consider all Last Stand from Conviction involved was hanging around an EMP device to guard it, which got boring real fast. Charlie's maps are pretty good and there's a lot of strategy to fighting the various waves in them.

spacehamsterZH
09-16-2013, 12:50 AM
You know... I've been playing Russian Embassy a bit lately after I rushed through the first waves of all of them on Normal just to get the armor and tell myself I'd kinda-sorta completed them, and... it's growing on me. Once you learn the maps a bit, it's kind of like playing Hunter, except faster and less predictable.

SolidSage
09-16-2013, 03:18 AM
Really hope you don't play it in that quality! ;)
Nah, I have a nice TV on a steady piece of furniture. It's my hand that had the shakes :)



Yeah well you die a LOT quicker if they're ALL aiming at you, vs playing with a partner. LOL
I think I die just as fast in coop when they are all shooting at me and my partner is hiding at the other end of the map away from the abuse :)



Those missions are weapon try outs as I call them. They're not to be taken serious. I run around slapping the AI with my D50 and shooting the dogs as much as I can. They're basically endurance rounds on Perfectionist.
I think a lot of folks are making quick estimations about this mode. I too thought at the outset that they were just horde type exercises. After really investing some time in them and playing them like SplinterCell, I realize that it is quite possibly one of the best modes in the game. You can beat every wave full stealth, even the HVT waves, granted there might be a few retries in there depending on difficulty but it can be done well.
Obviously Pure Ghosting is absent in this mode but the campaigns allow for more than enough of that.

When the Drone Operators launch around the map (in somewhat specified locations) you can sprint around to each of them and take them out very quickly before the other waves launch. Waiting at launch doors for red arrows to enter the map is also a nice way to thin the enemy's ranks quickly.


@ALL
IMO Charlie Missions are better than D-Ops ever was. The only area they lack is that there isn't a customization menu for the AI, but with the waves of varied AI that launch in and let you play with them pretty much how you like, there is just so much more to be had than before in SCC.
Try doing every wave full stealth, and just pick a random wave to toy with if you don't feel like spending hours at it.

It doesn't have to be fast or aggressive, it can be slow, paced and passive, it's entirely up to you :)

We just finished Russian Embassy, I took a dirt nap at he start of Wave 19 due to a glitch involving sitting up at the bottom of a staircase while being healed (lame excuse but it's true), and then sat and watched my partner eliminate 34 AI that were mostly shield heavies. Pretty good considering it's a good bet that I would have shanked it if it had been left to me.

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t406/rwpierce9/temporary_zpsda8e4f59.jpg

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t406/rwpierce9/temporary_zps5990ea4b.jpg

kristoffer34234
09-16-2013, 04:16 AM
I like charlies E4 missions the best there really fun especially when you get to the 19th wave

aniket_nayak
09-17-2013, 06:02 PM
Charlie's missions are the kinda crap that should be seen in COD games. They have no place in a splinter cell game.

Dog 0f War
09-17-2013, 07:10 PM
Charlies missions are the best the game hast to offer if you know how to stealth and keep your self in stealth mode even if you been caught.

aniket_nayak
09-17-2013, 07:23 PM
Charlies missions are the best the game hast to offer if you know how to stealth and keep your self in stealth mode even if you been caught.
Umm, they aren't really that difficult. They are just boring repetitive crap. Not much thought has been put into making them.

Frag_Maniac
09-17-2013, 07:39 PM
I tend to think when the "CoD" and "repetitive" labels come out, it's players that use the same shallow gameplay they blame others of in games like CoD doing the talking.

These missions are as good as you make them. They're very open to your own play style and tactics.

Dog 0f War
09-17-2013, 07:40 PM
Well I think it pack everything in the game in one mode and feels like the best horde mode I have ever played.....
But to each there own, and to say it is easy sorry looks like a lie.

Frag_Maniac
09-17-2013, 08:17 PM
Anyone that says they're easy is playing on lower difficulty modes or playing only the required first wave set.

aniket_nayak
09-17-2013, 08:54 PM
Well I think it pack everything in the game in one mode and feels like the best horde mode I have ever played.....
But to each there own, and to say it is easy sorry looks like a lie.

I didn't say they were easy, but they certainly aren't too hard if you play panther, esp with a coop partner. But they get repetitive too fast and apart from that splinter cell is a stealth game not a tactical shooter.

Dog 0f War
09-17-2013, 09:27 PM
I didn't say they were easy, but they certainly aren't too hard if you play panther, esp with a coop partner. But they get repetitive too fast and apart from that splinter cell is a stealth game not a tactical shooter. So then play it as a stealth game, you can ghost it 100% and anyone who says you can't are lieing because I have done it and am working on doing it again in a video. I will prove it is stealth if you want it to be.

aniket_nayak
09-17-2013, 09:35 PM
So then play it as a stealth game, you can ghost it 100% and anyone who says you can't are lieing because I have done it and am working on doing it again in a video. I will prove it is stealth if you want it to be.

I don't consider knocking out every enemy in the map as stealth gameplay. Ghosting is about minimum contact which charlie's missions are not. In that regard even Kobin's missions aren't stealth, but atleast they aren't as repetitive.

G.I..Jane
09-17-2013, 09:49 PM
It's not about stealth, it's more about staying undetected as long as you can.

I have give it a try, completed the first embassy, am now in the second on the 13th wave and having a hard time getting those
two shielded guard HVT's sons of b*tches, it's not fun anymore. I'm playing on Normal because I just wanted to see how the gameplay is,
can't imagine how I could survive wave 10 - 20 on perfection with all those dogs and heavies so I guess you must have teenage reflexes
or something so I won't even try it.

First embassy was good, small and a few good hideouts. Second embassy is pure sh*t, far too big, no hideouts, useless ceiling pipes, no shadows.

SolidSage
09-17-2013, 10:41 PM
Second Embassy (Swiss Embassy) does have a balcony hideout in the Foyer actually. You have to look for it.
You can run a lot of the waves from the ammo office, upstairs office or the triple staircase balcony with little problem. Use the full ghost outfit and you can RUN up behind heavies and shields with no problem at all.

Egyptian Embassy has a hide out, climb across the Christmas lights and signs.

Russian Embassy has the zip line hideout.

yeah, I think Pakistan is actually the only one I haven't found a really good hideout in, but you can hold the Embassy (versus the ruins) real well with proximity devices on staircases. Oh wait, it does have that sanctuary at the back where the dead drop is, behind the gate.
So yeah, never mind, they all have at least one.


Great mode, lots of fun and can be played Ghost, Panther or Assault. Complaining that you HAVE to engage the enemy when the game includes plenty of missions where you can bypass them completely is just petty and selfish.
The true test of skill is going to be getting Gold Ghost and ZERO points at all in the Panther and Assault sections. I made it to wave 18 last night with no retries on Realistic but I failed Ghost at around wave 11, flippin drones..I really need to start using my EMP's on them.

Frag_Maniac
09-17-2013, 10:46 PM
...splinter cell is a stealth game not a tactical shooter.

Odd how in saying that you completely ignore the fact that the very definition of stealth merely implies clandestine behavior. As long as you stay mostly secretive, you're still using stealth whether knocking out or killing enemies, or avoiding them entirely.

As far as repetition goes, Deniable Ops in Conviction was more static and repetitious. The AI just stood in certain spots for the most part. Here they enter the map in search mode, which means you have to constantly adapt.


Second Embassy (Swiss Embassy) does have a balcony hideout in the Foyer actually. You have to look for it.
You can run a lot of the waves from the ammo office, upstairs office or the triple staircase balcony with little problem. Use the full ghost outfit and you can RUN up behind heavies and shields with no problem at all.

Egyptian Embassy has a hide out, climb across the Christmas lights and signs.

Russian Embassy has the zip line hideout.

yeah, I think Pakistan is actually the only one I haven't found a really good hideout in, but you can hold the Embassy (versus the ruins) real well with proximity devices on staircases. Oh wait, it does have that sanctuary at the back where the dead drop is, behind the gate.
So yeah, never mind, they all have at least one.


Great mode, lots of fun and can be played Ghost, Panther or Assault. Complaining that you HAVE to engage the enemy when the game includes plenty of missions where you can bypass them completely is just petty and selfish.
The true test of skill is going to be getting Gold Ghost and ZERO points at all in the Panther and Assault sections. I made it to wave 18 last night with no retries on Realistic but I failed Ghost at around wave 11, flippin drones..I really need to start using my EMP's on them.

And I've used all those places, except the Paki one I don't count as a real hideout, because it can be tough to shoot from, and once spotted there, tough to escape from too. The ruins with the ammo crate and staircases is actually a better spot and more flexible, as long as you keep planting mines on either stairway to the side of it. The balcony at the embassy works to, but it requires 3 mines, one at each door and one by the window, since dogs can jump through it.

I'd have to say my fave of them is the Egyptian one, because you can snipe clear across the courtyard from there, and the sign and ledge are great spots to use gas darts and grenades from. It's also a quick drop and dash down the pipe to the closest ammo crate by the entrance when you need to resupply.

These hide spots are also great places to use the Trirotor from safely. You can't actually launch it from the Egyptian Embassy one, but you can launch if from the ledge or sign, then retreat to the hide spot and pick up where you left it.

IMO the Trirotor is by far the best weapon against the drones, esp with sonar upgrade, because you can find and knockout the drone operators relatively easy with it.

G.I..Jane
09-18-2013, 02:47 AM
Second Embassy (Swiss Embassy) does have a balcony hideout in the Foyer actually. You have to look for it.
You can run a lot of the waves from the ammo office, upstairs office or the triple staircase balcony with little problem. Use the full ghost outfit and you can RUN up behind heavies and shields with no problem at all.

Egyptian Embassy has a hide out, climb across the Christmas lights and signs.

Russian Embassy has the zip line hideout.

yeah, I think Pakistan is actually the only one I haven't found a really good hideout in, but you can hold the Embassy (versus the ruins) real well with proximity devices on staircases. Oh wait, it does have that sanctuary at the back where the dead drop is, behind the gate.
So yeah, never mind, they all have at least one.


Great mode, lots of fun and can be played Ghost, Panther or Assault. Complaining that you HAVE to engage the enemy when the game includes plenty of missions where you can bypass them completely is just petty and selfish.
The true test of skill is going to be getting Gold Ghost and ZERO points at all in the Panther and Assault sections. I made it to wave 18 last night with no retries on Realistic but I failed Ghost at around wave 11, flippin drones..I really need to start using my EMP's on them.

Thanks for the routes to the hideouts.

I found the balcony hideout in the swiss embassy but the view from it is too narrow, you have to lure the enemies to that hall to
take them out from it. I always spray some sticky shockers and mines across that hall and enjoy when hordes of enemy patrol
it and stepping on it... :)

For the heavies, well, those guys just freaks the hell outta me with their heavy Darthvader breathing so I just shoot them in
the head with my SC4000... pretty cheap, I know, but as long as they are not a HVT they will get a headshot.
The shielded heavies in wave 13 are the HVT's so that's why I have a quite hard time to get to them because of the loads
of thermal guys roaming the map.

My best friends are the shocker / sleeping gass darts, proximity mines/shockers and the sleeping gass grenade. The Trirotor
is my best Co-op mate against those friggin' drone ops.

No, I don't play 100% ghost but I guess you have to know the current map inside out... Now I even don't know through
which doors those guys coming from in the swiss embassy, so I have yet so much to figure out first.


To be honest, I did not like the Charlie Missions, did think of them like CoD like gamestyle but you're right that they don't
compare to CoD by far; if you go Rambo (or John Wayne for me) you go down very quickly. The more I played the first
embassy the more I begin to like and understand the gamestyle of these missions, it's more hit and run, sometimes more
run than hit but that keeps you sharp and motivate you to plan your next hit more carefully or via a different route.

SolidSage
09-18-2013, 08:42 AM
Thanks for the routes to the hideouts.

I found the balcony hideout in the swiss embassy but the view from it is too narrow, you have to lure the enemies to that hall to
take them out from it. I always spray some sticky shockers and mines across that hall and enjoy when hordes of enemy patrol
it and stepping on it... :)
I just use the locations as a retreat if we make a mistake and things get too hairy. I basically work an ammo location. A spot where there are 2 in close vicinity is really nice, keep making the restock run after using all your stealth gadgets to take out AI and repeat. No detections is safest.



For the heavies, well, those guys just freaks the hell outta me with their heavy Darthvader breathing so I just shoot them in
the head with my SC4000... pretty cheap, I know, but as long as they are not a HVT they will get a headshot.
That works, I M&E them with sleeping gas from my crossbow mostly but initially I was just filling them full of SC4000 armor piercing rounds.



The shielded heavies in wave 13 are the HVT's so that's why I have a quite hard time to get to them because of the loads
of thermal guys roaming the map.
Thermal guys? Red Goggles/Voron? They love sleeping gas. Then a super stealth outfit makes running up behind Shield Heavies a breeze (their vision arc is tough, and they do look side to side a lot). Sticky noisemakers can help if you're doing it slowly.



My best friends are the shocker / sleeping gass darts, proximity mines/shockers and the sleeping gass grenade. The Trirotor
is my best Co-op mate against those friggin' drone ops.
RC operators are probably the biggest pain in my rear end, especially when there's dogs helping them out. I don't use my EMP's enough.



No, I don't play 100% ghost but I guess you have to know the current map inside out... Now I even don't know through
which doors those guys coming from in the swiss embassy, so I have yet so much to figure out first.
I don't favor Ghost, I like Panther best but I frequently go Assault in these missions so far. I just prefer the benefits of the Stealth stat over the Assault stat, DFA's are a reward, as are the animations for abductions and CQC take downs. I get them more when I'm stealthy.
Sonar will let you know where squads launch from then you can set up there early for an ambush.



To be honest, I did not like the Charlie Missions, did think of them like CoD like gamestyle but you're right that they don't
compare to CoD by far; if you go Rambo (or John Wayne for me) you go down very quickly. The more I played the first
embassy the more I begin to like and understand the gamestyle of these missions, it's more hit and run, sometimes more
run than hit but that keeps you sharp and motivate you to plan your next hit more carefully or via a different route.
Guerrilla tactics for the win. If I have to do something overt, like assault a Heavy, I'll chuck the incendiary and then relocate, the LKP comes more often from loud kills, and the LKP is our enemy now in Charlie Missions, more than ever.

G.I..Jane
09-18-2013, 06:29 PM
Made a error, the shielded guards HVT's are in the 14th wave of the swiss embassy.

Started it up today and saw I had to begin on the first wave, why??
Is it mandatory to extract every 5 waves to let the game save your progress?? That's quite lame...
Had a very hard time this time to get through the 10th wave.

But played the 14th wave again, and again, and again, and again and again for some 20 times and I can't seem to get both
HVT's in time, mostly only one. Those Voron dudes see you from a mile away, one detects you and even though I KO'ed him
in time the whole damn camp knows where I am; it's VERY hard to stay undetected, and I'm playing on Normal level...
Seems to me like a mission impossible on Realistic and more so on Perfectionist.

Cursed Charlie Missions, f*ck them! ;)

Frag_Maniac
09-18-2013, 06:46 PM
Made a error, the shielded guards HVT's are in the 14th wave of the swiss embassy.

Started it up today and saw I had to begin on the first wave, why??
Is it mandatory to extract every 5 waves to let the game save your progress?? That's quite lame...
Had a very hard time this time to get through the 10th wave.

But played the 14th wave again, and again, and again, and again and again for some 20 times and I can't seem to get both
HVT's in time, mostly only one. Those Voron dudes see you from a mile away, one detects you and even though I KO'ed him
in time the whole damn camp knows where I am; it's VERY hard to stay undetected, and I'm playing on Normal level...
Seems to me like a mission impossible on Realistic and more so on Perfectionist.

Cursed Charlie Missions, f*ck them! ;)

Yes you have to extract every 5 waves to save progress, and no, it's not "lame". I find it odd many blame the auto save system for being broken, but when they hand you a way of manual saving via a gameplay choice, you cry foul. It also keeps your gameplay sessions in shorter chunks, to help avoid the possibility of a memory leak crash.

Make sure you rush to the spot where the first HVT spawns to get there when he comes out the door. It's easy to attack them at that point even face to face without detection. Getting a freebie on the first one, esp when there's only two, makes a HUGE difference. Then just rush to a spot where you can safely gas dart or grenade the next one from, and if there's other Vorons nearby that might spot you getting to him, do the same with them first.

This stuff is not rocket science, it's obvious you aren't using very good tactics, just like in your "Site F Ghostable?" thread, where you claimed it was bugged, then didn't own up to it when you found you weren't using the best tactics and weren't even aware of better routes.

If you want help/respect from those whom know how to play the game, own up to it when you find you were wrong about a mission being bugged. There's FAR too many people making such claims, and often times when they're proven false, they refuse to even acknowledge it.

G.I..Jane
09-18-2013, 07:07 PM
Yes you have to extract every 5 waves to save progress, and no, it's not "lame". I find it odd many blame the auto save system for being broken, but when they hand you a way of manual saving via a gameplay choice, you cry foul. It also keeps your gameplay sessions in shorter chunks, to help avoid the possibility of a memory leak crash.

Make sure you rush to the spot where the first HVT spawns to get there when he comes out the door. It's easy to attack them at that point even face to face without detection. Getting a freebie on the first one, esp when there's only two, makes a HUGE difference. Then just rush to a spot where you can safely gas dart or grenade the next one from, and if there's other Vorons nearby that might spot you getting to him, do the same with them first.

This stuff is not rocket science, it's obvious you aren't using very good tactics, just like in your "Site F Ghostable?" thread, where you claimed it was bugged, then didn't own up to it when you found you weren't using the best tactics and weren't even aware of better routes.

If you want help/respect from those whom know how to play the game, own up to it when you find you were wrong about a mission being bugged. There's FAR too many people making such claims, and often times when they're proven false, they refuse to even acknowledge it.

No, I don't say these missions are bugged because I'm detected so quickly, I know I'm quite bad at it and run around like a chicken without a head sometimes. It's more like I have to study the maps a bit closer but I'm still not used with the fast gamestyle; played that kind of games a long time ago so I'm just a bit slow and wait too much for the enemy to come to me. Yes, I agree my tactics are flawed, here and in Site F and likely in other maps also but I guess replay them more will improve the tactics and the final result.

I saw many youtube video's with guys stealth complete maps so I (dare to) admit it is more a tactical issue than a bug, so, it's official, IMHO getting detected is your own fault, not the game's. ;)

Seeing is believing, not?

bluewolf042000
09-18-2013, 07:21 PM
Wow, the arrogance of some people is just surprising. No, Charlie missions aren't broken, and no they shouldn't be taken out just cause you don't like them.

The awesome thing about this game is that it has a little bit of everything for all kinds of players. Charlie missions are more panther and assault and Ive had a blast playing them so far. You can of course play it a bit more slowly, but things do reach a sense of urgency when there are HVTs involved. Which is why if you play with a partner, you can form strategies and help pull it off.

SolidSage
09-19-2013, 03:20 AM
@Frag
I know how tiresome it can get when it seems like folks are bad mouthing a game without really being reasonable about it's qualities, and like you, I'm one to defend something I see as special, and raise the BS flag when people are going a bit demented about things.
But there is a bit of a problem with that mentality (the defend one) where it can get to a point, quite quickly, where even the slightest generic statements start to seem inflammatory and the person in our position is already so worked up over stuff that we actually turn into the thing we've been trying to suppress.

I'm talking from experience here on this forum, mistakes I've made. I hope that you can see sense in what I'm saying and just take a moment to re-read some of the comments that you think are being inflammatory and try to read them in a different tone. maybe you'll see that some of it is just off handed comments and not actually vindictive and spiteful commentary regarding the efforts of the Developers.




@Porto
It is true that a lot of the time, discrepancies that we think the game is responsible for actually boil down to things we don't yet know about how the game operates or works. I myself was getting really tired of being detected when there wasn't an LKP, I thought something was messed up, until later I gathered some intel on how the Voron operate..when they feel like it.
Same with dogs and drones, they feel like AI cheats some times but they operate on very clear parameters actually and it's up to the player to make them inert by conducting themselves in a specific way.

So stick with it pal, SplinterCell is a great franchise and Blacklist has really turned the game play dial up to 11. Come here and complain about the stuff that seems to be making you weary and maybe someone can help. Just try to not let the dismay make you too negative. A good forum community requires us all to make an effort not to upset each other, or defuse situations that get out of hand for no good reason. Good job by the way in that regard, being able to say that you might have been at fault for some of it. It takes a a certain type of mental strength to accept blame and responsibility. Failure is only weakness when it isn't recognized :)


Made a error, the shielded guards HVT's are in the 14th wave of the swiss embassy.
i don't remember what waves are what until they launch, except for 19...19 and it's drones and dogs ALWAYS gives me trouble.


Started it up today and saw I had to begin on the first wave, why??
Is it mandatory to extract every 5 waves to let the game save your progress?? That's quite lame...
I kind of like the ability to extract . Once you have made it past a 5th, 10th, or 15th wave in a map, it will let you start at any of them...well, one wave after anyway, so 6, 11 and 16.
I do like the option to extract when doing short excursions, but I've been going for 20 in one sitting lately, it gets me higher on the leader boards. Not trying to be number 1 or anything but it's nice to see that I did well.


Had a very hard time this time to get through the 10th wave.
I can't comment on the difficulty of solo but so you know, I played SCC for 4 years, and even til the last few months was putting in a ridiculous amount of hours. practice, practice, practice. And when something just won't work, try to think of a different method.


But played the 14th wave again, and again, and again, and again and again for some 20 times and I can't seem to get both
HVT's in time, mostly only one. Those Voron dudes see you from a mile away, one detects you and even though I KO'ed him
in time the whole damn camp knows where I am; it's VERY hard to stay undetected, and I'm playing on Normal level...
Seems to me like a mission impossible on Realistic and more so on Perfectionist.
Coop makes the HVT problem much easier I guess. but I try to sleeping gas HVT asap, or snag them like Frag said, as they enter the map. If they have buddies with them, just keep on gassing them all until everyone is down, then Mark anyone else as you go for the bag and tag so you can execute if it get's dicey.
Sounds like I will have to give solo a go some time, sounds much harder.


Cursed Charlie Missions, f*ck them! http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20120411.419/images/smilies/wink.png
Ha ha, if they weren't so g'dang addictive! ;)

G.I..Jane
09-19-2013, 12:57 PM
@Porto
It is true that a lot of the time, discrepancies that we think the game is responsible for actually boil down to things we don't yet know about how the game operates or works. I myself was getting really tired of being detected when there wasn't an LKP, I thought something was messed up, until later I gathered some intel on how the Voron operate..when they feel like it.
Same with dogs and drones, they feel like AI cheats some times but they operate on very clear parameters actually and it's up to the player to make them inert by conducting themselves in a specific way.

So stick with it pal, SplinterCell is a great franchise and Blacklist has really turned the game play dial up to 11. Come here and complain about the stuff that seems to be making you weary and maybe someone can help. Just try to not let the dismay make you too negative. A good forum community requires us all to make an effort not to upset each other, or defuse situations that get out of hand for no good reason. Good job by the way in that regard, being able to say that you might have been at fault for some of it. It takes a a certain type of mental strength to accept blame and responsibility. Failure is only weakness when it isn't recognized :)


i don't remember what waves are what until they launch, except for 19...19 and it's drones and dogs ALWAYS gives me trouble.


I kind of like the ability to extract . Once you have made it past a 5th, 10th, or 15th wave in a map, it will let you start at any of them...well, one wave after anyway, so 6, 11 and 16.
I do like the option to extract when doing short excursions, but I've been going for 20 in one sitting lately, it gets me higher on the leader boards. Not trying to be number 1 or anything but it's nice to see that I did well.


I can't comment on the difficulty of solo but so you know, I played SCC for 4 years, and even til the last few months was putting in a ridiculous amount of hours. practice, practice, practice. And when something just won't work, try to think of a different method.


Coop makes the HVT problem much easier I guess. but I try to sleeping gas HVT asap, or snag them like Frag said, as they enter the map. If they have buddies with them, just keep on gassing them all until everyone is down, then Mark anyone else as you go for the bag and tag so you can execute if it get's dicey.
Sounds like I will have to give solo a go some time, sounds much harder.


Ha ha, if they weren't so g'dang addictive! ;)

You can say I began to see the light more clearer the more I played the game. I too have read all the complaints about all sorts for 'bugs' in the game and have to admit that 90% of them are just faulty drivers, flawed tactics or just bad gaming all together. I first played the whole mission on Realistic and found it difficult as hell and also quite 'buggy' because I was detected so fast, dogs sniffs you from a mile away, they ran too fast etc etc but if you look more closely to your own, flawed, gameplay you see there was an explanation for nearly everything that gone wrong; me going too fast, not being careful, impatient, making too much noise, using too much distractions, stupid mistakes like making a cover-to-cover move instead of jumping over something. Was thinking that Perfectionist was out of my league, but I played Hitman also and thought the same about their Purist mode and that was proven wrong also; more patience and better tactics brought me the Purist medal quite easily, also now with SCBL Perfectionist mode.

It's just that, and I think I can speak for more persons who still thinks the game is 'buggy', If you think your own playstyle is THE way to go you won't believe and even admit you're doing something wrong because you think you're playing the best you can already and because of that you are invisible and invincible, so one detection and the game sucks because you never could be detected because you played just perfectly...... you THINK.... It's just being stubborn and not want to see how you could do better. Well, I first thought Site F was not stealthable because I was constantly detected because of the Panther evade points, I was proven wrong in some video's, played it again with some more patience and somewhat better tactics and see and behold, done the same thing on 100% stealth without the Evade points... so, yes, then you have to admit it was not buggy but mere playstyle which was flawed.

I'm not here to argue, nothing of that at all. If I said something was buggy and it was proven wrong than I'm the first to admit it was not buggy but only flawed gameplay. I still think about something's wrong with vents in Site F though but it's not the end of the world and maybe it is solved with the next patch.

Probably I need better tactics to get those two HVT's but until now none of my tactics work and I've tried yours also but I guess I move too aggressive, too impatient once again so it's doomed to fail already. It's just I can take out many of those Voron guys but just not undetected, the first 5 or 10 goes great, after that I begin to make mistakes because of the timed HVT capture. Time is running out fast and I get a bit stressed, taking out guys too quick and get detected, over and over again, it's just not fun anymore. I know it's my 'great' tactics and not 'bugs' but it's frustrating as hell; I don't like to curse but at some moment it's just mandatory (and that's the time I end the game and go do something else...) ;)

At that moment I found it quite lame that I had to start again at wave 1 and not wave 11, but I didn't know you had to extract every 5 waves. I played the first embassy in one shot until the 16th wave, got tired of it and extracted, pure coincidence I even could extract. Luckily for me I didn't just end the game without extracting, which I did the first time with the swiss embassy. And no, it's not a bug! :)

Frag_Maniac
09-20-2013, 12:38 AM
@Frag
I know how tiresome it can get when it seems like folks are bad mouthing a game without really being reasonable about it's qualities, and like you, I'm one to defend something I see as special, and raise the BS flag when people are going a bit demented about things.
But there is a bit of a problem with that mentality (the defend one) where it can get to a point, quite quickly, where even the slightest generic statements start to seem inflammatory and the person in our position is already so worked up over stuff that we actually turn into the thing we've been trying to suppress.

I'm talking from experience here on this forum, mistakes I've made. I hope that you can see sense in what I'm saying and just take a moment to re-read some of the comments that you think are being inflammatory and try to read them in a different tone. maybe you'll see that some of it is just off handed comments and not actually vindictive and spiteful commentary regarding the efforts of the Developers.

I don't think I'm adding any hostility to the situation and risking making people more upset if that's your meaning. I'm pretty much an attack the point, not the person type of guy. It's only when certain members are dead set against seeing any reason from those whom feel the game design isn't as flawed as they make it sound that I start emphasizing my viewpoints with more fervor.

It's quite odd as well that you interjected such a comment at this time as well, because as you can see, porto has responded responsibly and admitted he needs to get to know the game better. The ones that don't have pretty much made up their minds before even bothering to try better tactics, and insist it's the game's fault.

This is clearly one of those games that requires the player to adapt, so it probably doesn't fit as well with players used to a certain play style. I just wish more people would understand that like porto does. IMO it's a sign of a game well made when it takes a few play throughs to find out everything you can do and how best to use those skills.

Max Payne 3 had similar qualities, but many were quick to malign it for being too hard, when they weren't even using some of the better tactics.

SolidSage
09-21-2013, 12:17 AM
I bought it up at this point after what was going on in the D-OP's thread. Things over there were getting heated and while it's not a one sided issue, it did appear that you were getting a bit put out by the disagreements. In this thread I think you glossed over Porto's initial sarcasm a tad in his more recent posts, and thought he was genuinely bashing the game when it was clear he was just using youthful dialogue to express his dismay at the learning curve.

I'm simply suggesting some self reflection so that young players like Porto can be cut some slack for their choice of words. And also, so sincere and consistent contributors to the forum, like yourself, don't needlessly run into conflict and strife with other members who are from exactly the same category, when genuine criticism is mistaken for bashing.

If this is offensive to you I am making things worse not better.

I agree with the majority of what you're saying about the quality of the game and how easy it is to mistake lack of experience for game flaws.

RedGeraniumWolf
03-27-2014, 11:46 PM
you know ...eventually when playing these stupid ****ing missions, for hours on end without any success or reward I start to wonder why the **** im even playing splinter cell. nice work ubi, never felt this way playing sc till now, even conviction's last stand was better than this

St1ffy
03-28-2014, 01:31 AM
Agreed, and yes I've been "spotted" many a time after using the so called "silent" crossbow on an enemy successfully with no one around to see. It straight up makes no sense some times how the last spotted area thing works.