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View Full Version : Why do I sometimes get the 'Hostiles Evaded' bonus instead of 'Guards Untouched'



Mordenn
08-22-2013, 10:45 PM
So far I've been playing through the entire game without being detected and without knocking out/killing any guards, and yet sometimes I still get panther points for sneaking past enemies instead of ghost points. It's incredibly frustrating that I sometimes cannot get the 'ghost' mastery on levels because of this and there seems to be no reliable cause for it. It seems completely arbitrary which is assigned, and naturally I can't just restart checkpoint and try again because the bonus is only given out AFTER the checkpoint is reached. My only option would be to restart the level and pray whatever glitch caused it the first time doesn't happen again.

FadedEcho
08-22-2013, 10:57 PM
I think it's because you distracted them. I noticed this as well, and the only missions where I would get Evaded rather than Untouched were when I used something to distract the guards off of their usual pathways. So Sam's whistle or sticky camera/noisemaker will turn your bonus from untouched to evaded.

Hope this helps! :)

edit: I'm not sure about the "Almost spotted" routine (where the spotted meter fills up enough that the guard walks over to check things out). This might also change your bonus, but it might not. I'll clarify later if I see it.

ALSO: I don't think open doors has an effect on this. Left the janitor closet in American Consumption door open, guard checked it out, finished the mission with full untouched.

Anzu-chan
08-22-2013, 10:58 PM
So far I've been playing through the entire game without being detected and without knocking out/killing any guards, and yet sometimes I still get panther points for sneaking past enemies instead of ghost points. It's incredibly frustrating that I sometimes cannot get the 'ghost' mastery on levels because of this and there seems to be no reliable cause for it. It seems completely arbitrary which is assigned, and naturally I can't just restart checkpoint and try again because the bonus is only given out AFTER the checkpoint is reached. My only option would be to restart the level and pray whatever glitch caused it the first time doesn't happen again.

If they somehow know about your presents, you evade them instead of ghosting trough... Even just if they see an open door and then seeing something unusual

Sharkey1337
08-22-2013, 11:02 PM
Yeah if you make them suspicious at all, it becomes Evaded. This is easily seen in the side missions when you lose a stealth bonus once they've noticed something suspicious.

Mordenn
08-23-2013, 12:18 AM
That's weird, I went through the Peruvian Manor level without ever having a detection bar even appear and I still got the 'Hostiles Evaded' bonus after I entered the mansion after detonating the EMP. Does it count when they go into an alert state even when it's because of story stuff?

Packultimate
08-23-2013, 12:59 AM
Also, if a dog barks at you and gets other guards' attention - it counts as evaded. If you use smoke, it's probably evaded.

Dome500
08-23-2013, 01:07 AM
That's ridiculous.

Only evaded should be when they semi-detect you.
Distractions where always ghost-actions, not panther actions. not pure ghost, but ghost.

SearchN.Seizure
08-23-2013, 01:20 AM
If they somehow know about your presents, you evade them instead of ghosting trough... Even just if they see an open door and then seeing something unusual

Good answer, but Anzu, i've been dying to ask, why do you have a naked hentai girl on your giant splinter cell sig?


That's ridiculous.

Only evaded should be when they semi-detect you.
Distractions where always ghost-actions, not panther actions. not pure ghost, but ghost.

Totally agree...

Anzu-chan
08-23-2013, 01:47 PM
Good answer, but Anzu, i've been dying to ask, why do you have a naked hentai girl on your giant splinter cell sig?



Totally agree...

Anime is not hentai my friend :D

Dome500
08-23-2013, 02:34 PM
Anime is not hentai my friend :D

=> this.

though, it looks very hentai (just saying)

GullySquad 002
08-24-2013, 04:22 PM
Shooting out lights doesn't seem to affect ghost status as far as I can tell. I have done it on the first 2 missions with perfect ghost

sam2000_290
08-24-2013, 04:29 PM
The later missions seems to have a bug, especially the last mission. If you have done multiple retries, the ghost points you get in the beginning won't count as points in the final results screen. Seems to be a bug. This seems to happen quite often. The game only tracked the last part of the mission, and some how the beginning of the mission got lost. This happens especially when a mission is really long, like the last mission. So you'll have to avoid getting caught or detected and without retrying.

I was gonna post a thread on this but it was already posted! Now I don't have to start one!

And the slightest detection results in panther points.

SCCUser1978
08-24-2013, 05:29 PM
I had trouble ghosting Grim's mission in London, She said that I couldn't be detected or the mission was over.
I've tried everything in the world, I wasn't detected, I didn't detract anybody, I didn't kill anybody and I didn't leave any door open but I still got panther points.
It must be bug.

VampireThief10
08-25-2013, 01:40 AM
That's weird, I went through the Peruvian Manor level without ever having a detection bar even appear and I still got the 'Hostiles Evaded' bonus after I entered the mansion after detonating the EMP. Does it count when they go into an alert state even when it's because of story stuff?

Same thing is happening to me. After detonating the EMP and quietly escaping into the mansion, the points I rack up are for evading 18 hostiles - not the undisturbed ghost points. I've tried it 4 times now and it's really annoying, feels like a bug.

Kagurra
08-25-2013, 01:54 AM
Pretty sure it's if they find a body.

...or a glitch.

GullySquad 002
08-25-2013, 05:22 AM
Same thing is happening to me. After detonating the EMP and quietly escaping into the mansion, the points I rack up are for evading 18 hostiles - not the undisturbed ghost points. I've tried it 4 times now and it's really annoying, feels like a bug.

After I set off the EMP in the pump house I ran down along the bottom edge by where the pool drips off. And used the waterfall then the pipe to climb up. I did not have any issues with Panther points. I was given 10 hostiles undisturbed or something. I even used the sticky shocker on the tri-rotor to incapacitate the guys by the breaker.

VaNiillaa
08-25-2013, 05:55 AM
It's not a glitch, it's by design (unfortunately). If you're playing a mission, and the guards become aware of your presence, you get panther points for evading them. However, this leads to moments where without alerting them by your own doing, you still get panther points. Special HQ is a good example of this (spoilers ahead). When the general ambushes you, you have to knock all of the guards out in that room if you want to get ghost points, because they know you're there. If you just slip by, it counts as "evaded". You also have to knock out every guard in the room where you hack the PC, because they know you're hacking it. If you slip by them, it shows "evaded". It's not a bug, it's a bad design decision, and I hope they will fix it soon.

Dome500
08-25-2013, 01:28 PM
It's not a glitch, it's by design (unfortunately). If you're playing a mission, and the guards become aware of your presence, you get panther points for evading them. However, this leads to moments where without alerting them by your own doing, you still get panther points. Special HQ is a good example of this (spoilers ahead). When the general ambushes you, you have to knock all of the guards out in that room if you want to get ghost points, because they know you're there. If you just slip by, it counts as "evaded". You also have to knock out every guard in the room where you hack the PC, because they know you're hacking it. If you slip by them, it shows "evaded". It's not a bug, it's a bad design decision, and I hope they will fix it soon.


This has to be tweaked.

Panthers don't evade guards. They kill them. Period.

Torch6576
04-25-2014, 05:49 AM
I have a different problem with evading guards that hopefully someone knows why. I just finished Hawkins Seafort and my mission report shows a" bodies hidden" bonus for 2 bodies even though I didn't hide any bodies. I completed the mission in complete stealth never even touching a guard. I waited for openings to slip past them, never fired my weapon and no gadgets except the tri rotor to mark gaurds on the roof so I could track them. I closed any door & window behind me. If someone could please tell me how this is possible. How could I possibly have receive a "bodies hidden" bonus without hiding any bodies?

HercRembrandt
04-25-2014, 10:17 AM
Regarding the Ghost/Panther point thing, it just seems to me that separating the game styles is just a Bad Idea to begin with. Obviously it's there for scoring purposes, but it certainly doesn't make the gameplay any richer. You should be able to adjust your approach on the fly, as the situation may warrant, without arbitrary scoring penalties.

Dome500
04-25-2014, 01:33 PM
Regarding the Ghost/Panther point thing, it just seems to me that separating the game styles is just a Bad Idea to begin with. Obviously it's there for scoring purposes, but it certainly doesn't make the gameplay any richer. You should be able to adjust your approach on the fly, as the situation may warrant, without arbitrary scoring penalties.

Yeah, absolutely agreed. We have been talking about it a lot now and I think most of us agree that the point separation between the plastyles is only hazardous to the overall feeling of the game. It separates the player base, influences the playstyle and thinking of players because it basically forces you into a set role of either Ghost, Panther or Assault and makes every other "hybrid" less preferable, etc.

I think it should be abandoned the way it is at the moment.

blue23454
04-26-2014, 03:45 AM
From my understanding
It's always ghost
until the flashlights come out

cjdavies
04-26-2014, 11:26 AM
I played my first story mission last night and I ended with Ghost Mastered (Normal), I took down loads of enemies (non-lethal), was detected twice, evaded and even had 2 combat takedowns.

I played Grim's 4E mission first before playing the first story mission above and was it was informing me I failed the bounus, when:
- I left a door open, and when a guard went to invetigate, I was on the pipe for an aerial takedown, because of the time delay of not doing it straight away I lost the bounus.
- Another was on the roof, I took an enemy and the sniper must have seen them, so bonus lost.
- I did the hide behind a wall/corner and whistle, seems you shouldn't do it too close as this also loses your bonus.

It is weird with Ghost and Panther, both are undected but one is non-lethal and the other is lethal, yet you get Panther for evading not detected (red).

Dome500
04-26-2014, 04:55 PM
I played my first story mission last night and I ended with Ghost Mastered (Normal), I took down loads of enemies (non-lethal), was detected twice, evaded and even had 2 combat takedowns.

I played Grim's 4E mission first before playing the first story mission above and was it was informing me I failed the bounus, when:
- I left a door open, and when a guard went to invetigate, I was on the pipe for an aerial takedown, because of the time delay of not doing it straight away I lost the bounus.
- Another was on the roof, I took an enemy and the sniper must have seen them, so bonus lost.
- I did the hide behind a wall/corner and whistle, seems you shouldn't do it too close as this also loses your bonus.

It is weird with Ghost and Panther, both are undected but one is non-lethal and the other is lethal, yet you get Panther for evading not detected (red).

Yeah, I think the fundamental flaw here lies in the misunderstanding of the philosophies. The Panther and Ghost stylles, though the name of the Panther might come from the developers, were defined by their respective players.

As such we laid the foundation to what those styles are supposed to be. But I think only over time did we refine and realize what the styles are about and then it was too late and the concept of what a Ghost and what a Panther is was for us before was carried over in the game anyway.


1. A Ghost is non-lethal, but not only that, the Ghost is the person who wants to leave as little evidence of him being here as possible, he avoids any form of confrontation if possible, but if he confronts enemies he only knocks them out

2. The Panther is an aggressive and fast playstyle, and has a lot to do with confrontation. He is mostly lethal but under special circumstances can be non-lethal (non-lethal mandate). What DEFINES the Panther playstyle is that the Panther seeks confrontation and welcomes it, in strong contrast to the Ghost. The panther is highly confrontational and uses speed, improvisation, verticality and darkness to get an advantage, then he eliminates all threats.

Therefore it has to follow that a knockout is a Panther move as well as a Ghost move.
Furthermore an evasion, no matter if detected (enemies searching for you) or not detected before, has to be a Ghost action.

IN the end I think the separation of Ghost and Panthers is unnatural, for the simple fact that those playstyles blur into each other at points, and that it feels therefore unnatural to separate them so strictly. They are both forms of Stealth, they both rely on darkness and the Panther can be lethal AND non-lethal, what separates them is only their philosophy, which is confrontational as Panther, and evasive as Ghost.

That is my opinion at least.

SanityAgathion
04-26-2014, 07:28 PM
Panther was apparently codename given to Fisher when they hunt him down around Conviction timeframe, it's in a sentence 3E operative says during his capture at Kobin's Mansion. But that's just offtopic, to see where this may come from :)
http://youtu.be/gT6JSVFzVWk?t=6m21s

Dome500
04-27-2014, 02:08 AM
Panther was apparently codename given to Fisher when they hunt him down around Conviction timeframe, it's in a sentence 3E operative says during his capture at Kobin's Mansion. But that's just offtopic, to see where this may come from :)
http://youtu.be/gT6JSVFzVWk?t=6m21s

Originally it was THE marketing phrase for Conviction (the Mex Beland & team version, not the 07 one) to introduce how the new gameplay is. It was a cool name for a new more action-oriented style of playing.

KevinPDZ0916
04-27-2014, 04:35 AM
Originally it was THE marketing phrase for Conviction (the Mex Beland & team version, not the 07 one) to introduce how the new gameplay is. It was a cool name for a new more action-oriented style of playing.

lol they should call the game Panther Cell rather than Splinter Cell. Seriously, Ubisoft needs to really understand what "Splinter Cell" means in the context of the old games. This pure direct contact with counter-terrorism measures cannot be repeated in SC7 if it wants to re-attract hardcore SC fans. And at E3-whatever (I'm guessing 2015) when they reveal the game to all the game journalists at either Sony or Microsoft's conferences, they NEED to show ghost / panther gameplay. If they even try to show another "Blacklist E3 2012 demo" gameplay they will fail again at winning people over.

KevinPDZ0916
04-27-2014, 04:41 AM
Hmm... with all these issues over the ghost / panther points being messed up between hostiles undisturbed and hostiles avoided, it really makes you wonder what they did from January 2012 to August 2012 when they announced that extra 7 month delay. They said the main reason was for balancing the playstyles. Well... 7 months later... how come the playstyle stuff got messed up at certain points in the game, according to the design? I feel they really needed to delay the game even further.

Honestly, I think they just tried too hard to put so much content in it, that they forgot about the quality of the game. All the bugs / glitches in SP, Coop, and MP that are still not fixed should not have been in the final game. For example, if you had to restart the checkpoint at the end of the coop campaign, then Sam and Briggs remained stuck at the end of the waves of enemies firing at you. It was a game breaking bug on the final release. How did that not get noticed during the testing phases? It took forever to fix and apparently some people still experience it from time to time.

They made a deadline (maybe that's all the budget allowed for since they had to sell 5 million projected units) and they should have also made a next-gen port for more sales. I wouldn't even mind a smaller SC game for SC7 as long as the quality was top-notch almost perfect on release day. Seriously, there were too many other variants being focused on rather than the quality at times I feel. Take your time, Ubisoft. Don't rush SC7.

Dome500
04-27-2014, 02:04 PM
Hmm... with all these issues over the ghost / panther points being messed up between hostiles undisturbed and hostiles avoided, it really makes you wonder what they did from January 2012 to August 2012 when they announced that extra 7 month delay. They said the main reason was for balancing the playstyles. Well... 7 months later... how come the playstyle stuff got messed up at certain points in the game, according to the design? I feel they really needed to delay the game even further.

Hmmm... I wouldn't neccessarily say they were "messed up". Sure, we got some wrong points at some places, but if the testers didn't see that then they couldn't have know. As for which action given which kind of point.... It was no bad idea in general, and if they had another concept, another picture in mind what the playstyles are than we had, then I can completely understand how it turned out to be.


Honestly, I think they just tried too hard to put so much content in it, that they forgot about the quality of the game. All the bugs / glitches in SP, Coop, and MP that are still not fixed should not have been in the final game. For example, if you had to restart the checkpoint at the end of the coop campaign, then Sam and Briggs remained stuck at the end of the waves of enemies firing at you. It was a game breaking bug on the final release. How did that not get noticed during the testing phases? It took forever to fix and apparently some people still experience it from time to time.

Yeah, especially why did the testers not see so many issues?
I think the problem is they started with a huge project in mind and realized towards the end they were not gonna make it. Then they wanted the extra 7 months, which they got, but a lot of "issues" felt through the roster. A shame really.

EddieTheyBunny
08-21-2015, 04:37 PM
So far I've been playing through the entire game without being detected and without knocking out/killing any guards, and yet sometimes I still get panther points for sneaking past enemies instead of ghost points. It's incredibly frustrating that I sometimes cannot get the 'ghost' mastery on levels because of this and there seems to be no reliable cause for it. It seems completely arbitrary which is assigned, and naturally I can't just restart checkpoint and try again because the bonus is only given out AFTER the checkpoint is reached. My only option would be to restart the level and pray whatever glitch caused it the first time doesn't happen again.

Not trying to be a **** to everyone else, but they simply are wrong. You're suppose to get "Hostiles Evaded" when you are DETECTED. "Hostiles Evaded" implies you were full blown SEEN, the enemy opened fire, and you just ran away. That's what Hostiles Evaded is for. The bottom line is that the game is a very inconsistent mess.
I've actually gotten "Hostiles Undisturbed" many times when leaving doors open, distracting guards, dogs barking at me, but as long as they're not actually ALERTED, it's suppose to say "Hostiles Undisturbed". In fact, the game is so buggy I actually went FULL ASSAULT and left the area and I got "Hostiles Undisturbed".

It IS a glitch. A very common one, sadly, but Ubisoft won't fix it. They're busy with *******'s Creed 76.