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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 10:21 AM
BoB should take into account the fact that TrackIR is becoming the standard. Sense TrackIR will free up your thumb from moving the HAT key we can now employ the HAT key for other things. It would be very cool if BoB allowed us to move the cockpit POV around via a HAT or SLIDER. This would allow us to LEAN around the cockpit with ease to look around things like cockpit frames... or when look to our six, to lean around the head rest and look back instead of into the head rest (Linda Blair like)

I know this is hard for some people to envision in that some 6 months later some people still can not understand this simple concept. But in a nut shell TrackIR would work as it does now.. But the HAT keys and/or SLIDER could be use to LEAN.. i.e. move the POV.

By SLIDER I'm mean the mini joysticks that some throttles have on them.. i.e.

http://hirevsims.com/homepage/1products/1fltcntls/02f15/dsktop/f15dtthr01.jpg

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/previews/prothrottleusb/pt_usb2.gif

Keep in mind this is for the serious high end guys that are looking for realism and immersion... and therefore realize that spending $100.00 for TrackIR is a small investment relative to everything else.. i.e. Quake players need not reply to this message about cheat this or too expensive that.. If you don't like flight sims enough to buy the toys.. Well don't hinder us who do.

Name removed to prevent flame fest. in the future please refrain from using personal names in a context that can incite a useless flame war.

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[This message was edited by Bearcat99 on Thu August 12 2004 at 01:24 PM.]

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 10:21 AM
BoB should take into account the fact that TrackIR is becoming the standard. Sense TrackIR will free up your thumb from moving the HAT key we can now employ the HAT key for other things. It would be very cool if BoB allowed us to move the cockpit POV around via a HAT or SLIDER. This would allow us to LEAN around the cockpit with ease to look around things like cockpit frames... or when look to our six, to lean around the head rest and look back instead of into the head rest (Linda Blair like)

I know this is hard for some people to envision in that some 6 months later some people still can not understand this simple concept. But in a nut shell TrackIR would work as it does now.. But the HAT keys and/or SLIDER could be use to LEAN.. i.e. move the POV.

By SLIDER I'm mean the mini joysticks that some throttles have on them.. i.e.

http://hirevsims.com/homepage/1products/1fltcntls/02f15/dsktop/f15dtthr01.jpg

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/previews/prothrottleusb/pt_usb2.gif

Keep in mind this is for the serious high end guys that are looking for realism and immersion... and therefore realize that spending $100.00 for TrackIR is a small investment relative to everything else.. i.e. Quake players need not reply to this message about cheat this or too expensive that.. If you don't like flight sims enough to buy the toys.. Well don't hinder us who do.

Name removed to prevent flame fest. in the future please refrain from using personal names in a context that can incite a useless flame war.

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[This message was edited by Bearcat99 on Thu August 12 2004 at 01:24 PM.]

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-12-2004, 10:27 AM
Lol common ASH you just know they are gona reply any ways don't yah http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif interesting idea but I recon both camps could be accomodated here what you realy want is a lean feature that can be mapped isnt it ?

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BaldieJr
08-12-2004, 10:30 AM
Page Prediction: 2, with lock.

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El Turo
08-12-2004, 10:33 AM
IBTP2L!!1!

In before the page two lock?

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tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-12-2004, 10:34 AM
Guess again Obi Wan http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif Seems your powers have grown weak old man http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 10:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Lol common ASH you just know they are gona reply any ways don't yah http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True.. Sad but true.. But at least I identified them! Just a little profiling by me.. not real PC.. But hey, who cares what they think! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS: interesting idea<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Down side is.. it requres alot more 3D cockpit art to be drawn.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
but I recon both camps could be accomodated here what you realy want is a lean feature that can be mapped isnt it ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>bassically.. And yes it could be used by all existing views systems.. Assuming you have more than one hat that is.. But the real point is TrackIR will make all those other methods obsolete.. Just as the first joystick with a hat did some 10+ years ago vs. the keyboard. It is the natural progression of things.. Some pick it up when it comes out.. Others put it off until they have no choice. I just hope that BoB allows us to move the POV (ie LEAN).

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tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-12-2004, 10:56 AM
Hmm perhaps BOB should ship with track ir ??!?!

Not sure I would do any better with lean or without it as I ain't that hot a pilot even with all my bells buttons and whistles but I guess it all helps with the immersion.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Hmm perhaps BOB should ship with track ir ??!?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Awhile back CH pro throttles were shipping with IL2

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Not sure I would do any better with lean or without it as I ain't that hot a pilot even with all my bells buttons and whistles but I guess it all helps with the immersion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Old saying.. loose sight loose fight.. Maybe your not so hot because you loose sight? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If you could lean a little it would enable you to see those aircraft that slipped behind the cockpit bar.. Thus maintaing sight.. Thus win fight! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-12-2004, 11:31 AM
LMAO

nah I am just **** http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

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BaldieJr
08-12-2004, 11:45 AM
Nothing ruins my virtual combat experience like a mass of poor people. The nerve of these commoners!

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Yellonet
08-12-2004, 12:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Nothing ruins my virtual combat experience like a mass of poor people. The nerve of these commoners!

http://officemax.secureportal.com/
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http://www.fighterjerks.com
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Amen to that... I hope they raise the price on PF and BoB to $500 so only real simmers with a genuine interest buy the game. Nothing stinks like poor people.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yellonet/Yellonet_sig.jpg

Yellonet
08-12-2004, 12:29 PM
Just to make it clear: the post above is sarcastic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yellonet/Yellonet_sig.jpg

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 12:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Just to make it clear: the _post above_ is _sarcastic_.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I expect this kind of clueless interptation from Yellonet.. but BaldieJr? I gave you more credit..

And just to make it clear..

It is NOT a case of POOR vs. RICH by any means! The fact that you have a.. No Need a $1500.00 rig to play any modern flight sim means you aint poor! Another $100 for TrackIR is not where the line is drawn between POOR and RICH.. But it does draw the line between LOVE FLIGHT SIMS and LIKE GAMES.. where FLIGHT SIMS is just something you do when you can not find a good Quake arean to play in.

To play flight sims you need a big investment.. You have to upgrade something about every 8 months or so.. So dont give me that POOR vs. RICH ****.. And that $1500.00 is a low end quote by the way... JUST TO BE CLEAR!

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OldMan____
08-12-2004, 12:56 PM
In this line of tought.. if you like you must buy.. so the game must only run in Dual Alhon FX53 using a GefOrce 6800 Ultra.. because if you lik eit you buy it!!!


Juste remember life is not the same for everyone!! Here where I live a track IR cost MORE than a GF6800!! An I love Flight Sim.. but would never put a track IR before a faster VGA.


Oohh and BoB should work only in 40 inch monitors from Silicon Graphics...

You may request any additional controls you want.. but do not disregard others conditions.. they are not thrash to be thrown away.. they are as important as you!

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
In this line of tought.. if you like you must buy.. so the game must only run in Dual Alhon FX53 using a GefOrce 6800 Ultra.. because if you lik eit you buy it!!!


Juste remember life is not the same for everyone!! Here where I live a track IR cost MORE than a GF6800!! An I love Flight Sim.. but would never put a track IR before a faster VGA.


Oohh and BoB should work only in 40 inch monitors from Silicon Graphics...

You may request any additional controls you want.. but do not disregard others conditions.. they are not thrash to be thrown away.. they are as important as you!

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again.. this aint a POOR vs. RICH thing.. Nor did I imply you have to have cutting edge $6500.00 rig to play.. But at a min you have a $1500.00 rig with a $50.00 joystick and maybe a $50.00 throttle and $50.00 dollar rudder peddles.. And now you want me to belive the $100.00 for TrackIR breaks the bank? Sorry.. No sale.. Not sure what you selling.. But that liberal mind set does not work on me with the poor people thing.. Nice try though! But Im still voting for bush! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Agamemnon22
08-12-2004, 02:04 PM
The question isn't "Does everyone have 100 bucks to spend on TrackIR?" but "Does everyone want to spend that much?". I, for example, am quite content with the my $60 stick, no throttle, no pedals.
And believe me I didn't buy my PC to play IL2, if I had to do that I probably wouldn't play it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I disagree that TrackIR is any kind of standard or minimum. Just the other day on warclouds someone asked how many people had TrackIR. 1 person did out of 30 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

At the same time, I agree with the original post in that there should be an option to use whatever keys you want to move your head about. But the input binds should be user-specified, so that people who don't have TrackIR can still bind head motion to something. For example, I have 2 hats on my stick, I could bind one to rotation and one to translation of the head.

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
The question isn't "Does everyone have 100 bucks to spend on TrackIR?" but "Does everyone want to spend that much?". I, for example, am quite content with the my $60 stick, no throttle, no pedals.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well it was not a question as much as an observation.. This HOBBY we call flight sims is an expensive HOBBY. Some like yourself are casual users.. Thus does not make sense to pay more.. And that is fine! But would you consider yourself POOR? I think not.. As I pointed out early on.. This is not a poor vs. rich by any means.. it is guys who are very into it vs. casual users. All these guys waving the POOR flag want to imply there is some guy called Willy sitting on curb with his bottle of whine and sign that says will work for food and a 386 laptop with IL2 running on it.. And that we should feel sorry for him and consider his feelings.. That kind of liberal worst case senario works great on the masses but not me.. If you have a PC and are playing IL2 you aint poor. Unless you stole the PC? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
And believe me I didn't buy my PC to play IL2, if I had to do that I probably wouldn't play it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger.. casul user, got it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
I disagree that TrackIR is any kind of standard or minimum. Just the other day on warclouds someone asked how many people had TrackIR. 1 person did out of 30 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now.. but as with the first joystick that came out with a HAT.. wont be long. And sense BoB is something down the road.. Im sure buy the time it hits the selfs the bulks of INTO IT users will have them.. But.. As you pointed out.. There will allways be the casual users like yourself.. Who dont even have a throttle or rudder peddles yet. But Im talking about the guys who are INTO IT.. Which is not to be confused with, or used by the libreal here to imply RICH

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
At the same time, I agree with the original post in that there should be an option to use whatever keys you want to move your head about. But the input binds should be user-specified, so that people who don't have TrackIR can still bind head motion to something. For example, I have 2 hats on my stick, I could bind one to rotation and one to translation of the head.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You have two thumbs? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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NegativeGee
08-12-2004, 02:23 PM
I think TAGERT should join in on this debate.

We'd all like to hear his views.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NegativeGee:
I think TAGERT should join in on this debate.

We'd all like to hear his views.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Funny.. all the IBLT types are the ones that actually come back with nothing to contribute.. Just silly OT replys that dont have any other purpose but to stir up trouble.. Does anyone have anything to say about the HAT and or SLIDER being used to alter the POV? Figures.. Well bring it on.. I can deal with you and yours just fine.

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Bearcat99
08-12-2004, 02:31 PM
Good post for the most part Ash... great suggestions. Check your PTs and see the edit I made to the top.

As far as the topic... I have TIR and it is great. I stilluse my mouse pan though. Like ASH says.. its all a matter of how much you are "into it". When I started simming in earnest I bought a Logitech Wingman 2 as my first stick. No rudder. Flimsy construction. I wasnt about to spend too much on a [/i]gaaaame[/i]. Now flash forward to August of 04.... TIR,CHPro pedals,MSFFB2,X45,upgrades out the wazoo including 19' monitor,1G 3200RAM,9800Pro 128,ASUS A7N8X-D,XP2500Barton.. and contemplating more. I'm more into it now.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That would be an excellent thing if side to side and up and down leaning could be modelled. Esecially if it could be modelled accurately with G forces... for example... in a tight left turn pulling 2Gs I shouldnt be able to lean but so far to the left.... that would certainly add another dimension to the whole immersion thing.
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[This message was edited by Bearcat99 on Thu August 12 2004 at 01:39 PM.]

Agamemnon22
08-12-2004, 02:33 PM
ASH, I just don't see why you seem to want to make it a forced feature. If you want to have your head motion on a little joystick then fine, bind it to that. I might not want it that way.

This is a niche game as it is, why ostrisize everyone who doesn't have TrackIR? And while in a few years even 50% of the pilots might have TrackIR (an increase of 1500% if you take the above sampling from warclouds as an indication), it still can't be considered any kind of requirement.

faustnik
08-12-2004, 02:35 PM
Ash,

DON'T TAKE MY PADLOCK AWAY!

thanks,

faust

P.S. TIR was cool but, made me sick to my stomach. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
ASH, I just don't see why you seem to want to make it a forced feature.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Forced? Where in the "H" did you get the impression that you would be FORCED to use it?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
If you want to have your head motion on a little joystick then fine, bind it to that. I might not want it that way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What ever, just remember I never said you had to.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
This is a niche game as it is, why ostrisize everyone who doesn't have TrackIR?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ostrisize? Is that LATIN for POOR people? LOL!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
And while in a few years even 50% of the pilots might have TrackIR (an increase of 1500% if you take the above sampling from warclouds as an indication), it still can't be considered any kind of requirement.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So what part of guys INTO IT vs. CASUAL users do you not understand?

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Ash,

DON'T TAKE MY PADLOCK AWAY!

thanks,

faust

P.S. TIR was cool but, made me sick to my stomach. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Im sure PADLOCK will be around for a long time.. Just like the ability to change your view via the keyboard is still around.. But like the HAT did to the Keyboard.. TrackIR will do to Padlock and HAT and the rest.. Make it useless.. Except maybe for the casual users sitting on the curb! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TrackIR is just the natural progression of things.. Where I think the next step will be afordable HMD's. By afordable I dont mean RICH people! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 02:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Good post for the most part Ash... great suggestions. Check your PTs and see the edit I made to the top.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger! Copy!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
As far as the topic... I have TIR and it is great. I stilluse my mouse pan though. Like ASH says.. its all a matter of how much you are "into it". When I started simming in earnest I bought a Logitech Wingman 2 as my first stick. No rudder. Flimsy construction. I wasnt about to spend too much on a [/i]gaaaame[/i]. Now flash forward to August of 04.... TIR,CHPro pedals,MSFFB2,X45,upgrades out the wazoo including 19' monitor,1G 3200RAM,9800Pro 128,ASUS A7N8X-D,XP2500Barton.. and contemplating more. I'm more into it now.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Been there done that! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
That would be an excellent thing if side to side and up and down leaning could be modelled. Esecially if it could be modelled accurately with G forces... for example... in a tight left turn pulling 2Gs I shouldnt be able to lean but so far to the left.... that would certainly add another dimension to the whole immersion thing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm I like it! There was a sim a few years back.. I think it was called Flight? It was not a combat sim but an acrobatic sim.. And the POV would sink into the seat a little when you pulled hard g's along with the black out.. and pop up a bit in neg g's along with the red out.

In theory you should not be able to lean very much under high g's.. So I have heard.. Wrench your neck and such.. So the amount of lean could be limited under hi g's which would be cool

Another thing LEAN would do for us is simulate cockpit views better.. In that in a late war P51 bubble canopy you should be able to lean farther left and right to check six.. Where as in a early war P51 with flat panel glass you should not be able to lean out as far.. Thus simulating aircrafts with better and worse views.. I think it would give you a good imersion feeling for how cramped the Spit and 109 were relitive to other aricraft.

A perfect example of this is the P51B and P51C in this game.. One has the malcom hood.. ie the bubble that allowed you to lean out father and look.. You dont notice it in this game because the POV does not move.. Thus the two types seem to have the same view from the cockpit

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Agamemnon22
08-12-2004, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
Forced? Where in the "H" did you get the impression that you would be FORCED to use it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok so what the heck is your point then? You want to bind your head motion to a little joystick. Ok .... go ahead, I think it's a good idea. It's not like you can't bind various keys on your stick to functions in game, either via the game itself or the joystick software...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Ostrisize? Is that LATIN for POOR people? LOL!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fine, ostracize, does that sound better? does it make you response have a point?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So what part of guys INTO IT vs. CASUAL users do you not understand?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The part where it makes any f*n' difference in this thread? You wanna bind it that way, go ahead.

What do you want here? A pat on the back for inventing a new way to bind things to stick controls? Here's a gold star. It's a good idea, but why are you arguing about it??

OldMan____
08-12-2004, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
In this line of tought.. if you like you must buy.. so the game must only run in Dual Alhon FX53 using a GefOrce 6800 Ultra.. because if you lik eit you buy it!!!


Juste remember life is not the same for everyone!! Here where I live a track IR cost MORE than a GF6800!! An I love Flight Sim.. but would never put a track IR before a faster VGA.


Oohh and BoB should work only in 40 inch monitors from Silicon Graphics...

You may request any additional controls you want.. but do not disregard others conditions.. they are not thrash to be thrown away.. they are as important as you!

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again.. this aint a POOR vs. RICH thing.. Nor did I imply you have to have cutting edge $6500.00 rig to play.. But at a min you have a $1500.00 rig with a $50.00 joystick and maybe a $50.00 throttle and $50.00 dollar rudder peddles.. And now you want me to belive the $100.00 for TrackIR breaks the bank? Sorry.. No sale.. Not sure what you selling.. But that liberal mind set does not work on me with the poor people thing.. Nice try though! But Im still voting for bush! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

_ASH HOUSEWARES_ http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav__
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

can't you understand a simple message? It is not a question of if 100 bucks will crush anything.. it is a question of USA and EUROPE are not 100% of the world.. and here.. a track IR does cost more than 300 dollars!!! I paid 130 dollars for my Cyborg Evo... so I do invest in FS. But 320 dollars DOES crash a lot of balances when that is almost all the money a recieve per month.. an I am of welthy life here!!


Do give a look at the post requesting for a brazilian marking in FB.. Look how many brazilians play this game. Doe snot disconsider the rest of the world just because you don't live there. I am not asking to not ask for your head movment.. but dont treat others like that.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

Yellonet
08-12-2004, 03:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Just to make it clear: the _post above_ is _sarcastic_.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I expect this kind of clueless interptation from Yellonet.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why? Do you know me?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But at a min you have a $1500.00 rig with a $50.00 joystick and maybe a $50.00 throttle and $50.00 dollar rudder peddles..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't have any of that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> quote:Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
And believe me I didn't buy my PC to play IL2, if I had to do that I probably wouldn't play it Smile

Roger.. casul user, got it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So... someone that bought their computer for more than IL-2 must be a "casual user"? I'm sure there are "casual users" who play this game more than you.

And what's with the "holier than thou" attitude?? Cut the cr@p man!

You had a good suggestion for a new feature, thanks for sharing, but do you have to belittle everyone that isn't a full time IL-2 gamer?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yellonet/Yellonet_sig.jpg

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
Ok so what the heck is your point then?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Point being that as TrackIR becomes the standard in view systems it will free up the keys/mouse/joystick we use to use for view systems to do OTHER THINGS like control you POV movements.. Get it? Got it? Good.. Now that I took the time to restate it.. Can you tell me what part of that was confusing you so much?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
You want to bind your head motion to a little joystick. Ok .... go ahead, I think it's a good idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks and Thanks I Think.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
It's not like you can't bind various keys on your stick to functions in game, either via the game itself or the joystick software...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good point.. And allow me to point out I never said you could or couldn't

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
Fine, ostracize, does that sound better? does it make you response have a point?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes same point in that I think you are crazy if you think I was ostracizing anyone.. And if you still do, then quote me the text I wrote that you thought was doing so.. I know you wont.. Because I didn't.. And in light of you missing the WHOLE POINT of this thread that I re posted above.. It is not hard for me to see where you misunderstood ostracizing too.. In short I forgive you!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
The part where it makes any f*n' difference in this thread? You wanna bind it that way, go ahead.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah.. what part of no lean to bind to do you not understand? Again.. The POINT of the THREAD is in the HOPES that ability will be added in BoB.. Boy.. are you sure your replying to the correct thread? You seem to be talking about something different here?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
What do you want here? A pat on the back for inventing a new way to bind things to stick controls? Here's a gold star. It's a good idea, but why are you arguing about it??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Me arguing? Ever heard the term "got a mirror?"

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

Agamemnon22
08-12-2004, 03:19 PM
LOL... all this because someone doesn't follow what's going on. A long time ago when the whole view thing was going, Oleg said that there will be full head motion in BoB. Welcome to February ASH, I sort of assumed you'd already known that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 03:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
can't you understand a simple message?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL.. Only thing simple about it was your weak attempt to try and play the extreme end card.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
It is not a question of if 100 bucks will crush anything.. it is a question of USA and EUROPE are not 100% of the world.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>WOW! Typical liberal tactics.. call the world into it now.. Jezzz talk about your OT tangent topic to get off the subject of being wrong and trying to re-spin things

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
and here.. a track IR does cost more than 300 dollars!!! I paid 130 dollars for my Cyborg Evo... so I do invest in FS. But 320 dollars DOES crash a lot of balances when that is almost all the money a recieve per month.. an I am of welthy life here!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well.. Sorry bout your bad luck.. But sense you brought up the whole world thing.. I think even you would agree that your situation is the except and not the rule with regards to the world! Again.. Sorry bout your bad luck.. But I'm sure you have other bennies living on a deserted island with free co-conuts! Factor that into the cost of your joystick! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
Do give a look at the post requesting for a brazilian marking in FB.. Look how many brazilians play this game. Doe snot disconsider the rest of the world just because you don't live there. I am not asking to not ask for your head movment.. but dont treat others like that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Treat others like that.. Again.. NICE LIBERAL TRY! But still no sale.. If your living in some 3rd world arena.. Hey.. Sorry.. But than again you don't have to deal with a 1.5hr to drive in sunny CA either.. If you want to take my statements to the extreme edge and accuse me of giving Eskimos in Alaska a hard time because I didn't factor in their Joystick would be sluggish due to cold weather.. Fine, be my guest, But I think most will realize that when statements are made.. They tend to target the RULE not the EXCEPTIONS to the RULE.

On that note.. *IF* your in a 3rd world arena.. And have a PC and time to PLAY games.. I can bet you are far from POOR relatively speaking

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 03:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Why? Do you know me?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I know your type

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
I don't have any of that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry bout your bad luck

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
So... someone that bought their computer for more than IL-2 must be a "casual user"? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No someone not willing to spend money for things like joysticks, throttles, rudders, sound cards, etc is a casual user.. which is to imply NOT THAT INTO IT! That is they are not POOR they just rather spend their money on other things.. Like Quake, Doom, etc.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
I'm sure there are "casual users" who play this game more than you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A know fact that the flight sim community is probably one of the smaller community with regards to the gaming community as a whole

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
And what's with the "holier than thou" attitude?? Cut the cr@p man!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And what's with the "holier than thou" save the poor from ASH attitude?? Cut that cr@p man!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
You had a good suggestion for a new feature, thanks for sharing, but do you have to be little everyone that isn't a full time IL-2 gamer?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What part of the CASUAL USER statement do you consider be-littling?

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

Yellonet
08-12-2004, 03:38 PM
Hey ASH_SMART you wouldn't by any chance have another user name like... BlitzPig_DTT? You're using the same tactic here.. never answer a question directly and offend everyone as much as possible.

Anybody remember the "Bearcat"-thread in the PF forum? It went down just like this...

A ban wouldn't be wrong.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yellonet/Yellonet_sig.jpg

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Hey ASH_SMART you wouldn't by any chance have another user name like... BlitzPig_DTT?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I have been accused of many things but no.. sorry!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
You're using the same tactic here.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>common sense? You mean other use that tatic too? Dang.. I thought I had the corner on that market!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
never answer a question directly and offend everyone as much as possible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Give me ONE EXAMPLE of me not answering a question.. I got out of my way to quote each line and dont skip any just to ensure I answer you lame questions

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Anybody remember the "Bearcat"-thread in the PF forum? It went down just like this... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is that the one where your first reply to the thread had nothing to do with the topic and started off implying he was trying to screw with the poor people?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
A ban wouldn't be wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now.. dont be so hard on yourself.. Your replys are useless and have nothing to do with the topic at hand.. But seems to be the status quoe around here.. So if they ban you they would have to ban most

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

OldMan____
08-12-2004, 03:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
can't you understand a simple message?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL.. Only thing simple about it was your weak attempt to try and play the extreme end card.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
It is not a question of if 100 bucks will crush anything.. it is a question of USA and EUROPE are not 100% of the world.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>WOW! Typical liberal tactics.. call the world into it now.. Jezzz talk about your OT tangent topic to get off the subject of being wrong and trying to re-spin things

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
and here.. a track IR does cost more than 300 dollars!!! I paid 130 dollars for my Cyborg Evo... so I do invest in FS. But 320 dollars DOES crash a lot of balances when that is almost all the money a recieve per month.. an I am of welthy life here!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well.. Sorry bout your bad luck.. But sense you brought up the whole world thing.. I think even you would agree that your situation is the except and not the rule with regards to the world! Again.. Sorry bout your bad luck.. But I'm sure you have other bennies living on a deserted island with free co-conuts! Factor that into the cost of your joystick! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
Do give a look at the post requesting for a brazilian marking in FB.. Look how many brazilians play this game. Doe snot disconsider the rest of the world just because you don't live there. I am not asking to not ask for your head movment.. but dont treat others like that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Treat others like that.. Again.. NICE LIBERAL TRY! But still no sale.. If your living in some 3rd world arena.. Hey.. Sorry.. But than again you don't have to deal with a 1.5hr to drive in sunny CA either.. If you want to take my statements to the extreme edge and accuse me of giving Eskimos in Alaska a hard time because I didn't factor in their Joystick would be sluggish due to cold weather.. Fine, be my guest, But I think most will realize that when statements are made.. They tend to target the RULE not the EXCEPTIONS to the RULE.

On that note.. *IF* your in a 3rd world arena.. And have a PC and time to PLAY games.. I can bet you are far from POOR relatively speaking

_ASH HOUSEWARES_ http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav__
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exception to the rule? Do you have the slighest idea of world situation? 99% of world lives with less money per yeasr that you spend in a single week. I AM WITH MAJORITY!!! BEOHOLD THE TRUE!

I wont discuss this further since you proved to be an uninformed man, that don't have the slighest idea of how the world is. A man I can only feel sorry for have such a bad luck of not having culture enough to know the world outside his window.. a man without perspective.

And hey.. Mr Geography.. my country is MUCH HOTTER than CA in average temp!!! Give yourself a favor.. finish elementary school.. please.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
Exception to the rule? Do you have the slighest idea of world situation? 99% of world lives with less money per yeasr that you spend in a single week. I AM WITH MAJORITY!!! BEOHOLD THE TRUE!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! Now that is funny.. Just so you know.. This is the forum for people who HAVE and PLAY IL2FB.. With that said it is SAFE to assume they are NOT POOR! Try as you like to re-spin this into some liberal world aid program but it isnt.. This is a specifc topic targeted to a specifc bunch of people in a specific forum.. By the vary nature that you have a PC to read this means your not living in some tree in a jungle in south america. Again.. NICE TRY! Big GOLD STAR for effort.. But no sale.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
I wont discuss this further since you proved to be an uninformed man, that don't have the slighest idea of how the world is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What part of the title did you not understand? Better yet what part of the title did you think had to do with the world health or aid or what ever? If you dont realise this message board is for people with PC's who play IL2.. then you are not only uninformed.. but something more.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
A man I can only feel sorry for have such a bad luck of not having culture enough to know the world outside his window.. a man without perspective.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! I have been all over the world.. I know how good I got it and how bad other got it.. WHAT YOU DONT SEEM TO REALISE is that starving people have better things to do then log in here and read this thread!! And if your logged in here reading this and playing IL2 you aint one of the POOR!! Just becuse you Joystick cost twice what mines does because you live off of the beaten path does not mean you are poor!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
And hey.. Mr Geography.. my country is MUCH HOTTER than CA in average temp!!! Give yourself a favor.. finish elementary school.. please.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! What part of me not giving a rip about how hot it is in your staw hut do you not understand?

Again.. Nice try, no sale!

If you wnat to talk about the way the world is and how you can help.. There are plenty of other places to go.. We all realise that.. You dont seem to and want to come here and preach about it.. Just know this.. I came here to talk about IL2 and I gave at the office.. Other than that.. Sorry bout your bad luck

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

Jetbuff
08-12-2004, 04:36 PM
ASH_whatchamacallit, extra leaning ability is a great idea. OTOH, tieing it to trackIR only is rather arrogant and unfair. I'd rather see an improved system for all. Maybe have the POV "lean" towards whichever direction you are looking. So, if you look forward, your POV is Xcm forward; look to the right and back, your POV is Xcm back and to the right - regardless of whether you use TrackIR, mouse, snap/pan-views, or padlock.

Oh, and btw, I have owned trackIR since the very beginning and still do. I rarely use padlock anymore even when it's enabled on the server. That does not give me the right to call anyone who hasn't purchased trackIR a less than avid simmer.

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg

BaldieJr
08-12-2004, 04:38 PM
Please lock this thread before more poor people show up.

I took Bearcats example and got a second job to fund my sim addiction. Working two jobs allows me to bring home the bacon and trackir http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<A HREF="http://officemax.secureportal.com/" TARGET=_blank>
Hey ya'll prepare yourselves
for the rubberband man!</A>
http://www.fighterjerks.com/rbman.png
http://www.fighterjerks.com

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 04:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
ASH_whatchamacallit,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What part of HOUSEWARES are you having trouble with?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
extra leaning ability is a great idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yup.. be crazy to say otherwise

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
OTOH, tieing it to trackIR only is rather arrogant and unfair.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good thing I didnt do that than aint it!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
I'd rather see an improved system for all. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As it would be if implimented as I said.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Maybe have the POV "lean" towards whichever direction you are looking.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That would work too.. you could slave it to work with an existing contorl or have it a seperate control. nice thing about having TrackIR is it actually frees up a HAT or SLIDER to do just that.. Assuming you only have 1 HAT or 1 SLIDER now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
So, if you look forward, your POV is Xcm forward; look to the right and back, your POV is Xcm back and to the right<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactally as I described it in earlier threads.. This theread goes one step further and looks to the future when most will have TrackIR and thus free up that HAT they use for view and can now use it for LEAN

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
- regardless of whether you use TrackIR, mouse, snap/pan-views, or padlock.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Never said it was or wasnt

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Oh, and btw, I have owned trackIR since the very beginning and still do. I rarely use padlock anymore even when it's enabled on the server.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Same here

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
That does not give me the right to call anyone who hasn't purchased trackIR a less than avid simmer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! Nope.. freadom of speach gives you that right.. not TrackIR! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 04:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Please lock this thread before more poor people show up.

I took Bearcats example and got a second job to fund my sim addiction. Working two jobs allows me to bring home the bacon _and_ trackir http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://officemax.secureportal.com/
http://www.fighterjerks.com/rbman.png
http://www.fighterjerks.com
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>WOW! Neat idea.. deep.. insightfull.. Really adds to the conversation.. Thanks for the input!

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

NegativeGee
08-12-2004, 05:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
Funny.. all the IBLT types are the ones that actually come back with nothing to contribute.. Just silly OT replys that dont have any other purpose but to stir up trouble.. Does anyone have anything to say about the HAT and or SLIDER being used to alter the POV? Figures.. Well bring it on.. I can deal with you and yours just fine.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stiring up trouble? oh please sir, stop tickling my ribs!

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

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Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

stubby
08-12-2004, 05:03 PM
"BoB should take into account the fact that TrackIR is becoming the standard."

That's like saying the online portion of Il2 should dictate every aspect of how the game is crafted. We know this to be not true considering all the effort put into dgen. BTW, we all know that onliners only make up 10% or less of the folks that actually purchased Il2. TiR Users are a small, tiny fraction of the folks that play Il2 so why would 1C be stupid enough to develop a game around a fringe group of users? Bad business and 1C though a high quality game maker is in it for the money. I have TiR and it is indeed on par in terms of importance and immersion as a stick, throttle and pedal but I also realize that the masses don't have it (I'll say maybe 2% of all Il2 players have it). Once TiR approaches the 30 to 50 dollar range, things will change. As it stands now, it's a rich man's toy developed for a niche market. Dream on buddy - your request won't happen for another decade.

Apparath
08-12-2004, 05:22 PM
That's exactly my thought about the original message, stubby.

I am quite sure that trackIR has no chance of becoming the standard in any way. It is only going to be a tool used by the people who either are much into it or have enough money to obtain it for more casual use.

Ash, you shouldn't assume that people who are much into it will automatically get all the fancy toys that will enhance the flying experience. One of my relatives flew FB about 5-8 hours a day on a 600MHz rig without pedals without TIR... Flying VEFs... He really must have been much INTO IT, doesn't he?

carguy_
08-12-2004, 05:31 PM
Hello,
as a casual simmer I`d like to say that I`m not crazy enough to spend up to 70% of my 2-month income for TrackIR or any toy that exceeds 100$ magical border.


You can have ANYTHING you want implemented into this game as long as it doesn`t screw up my fun on my CHEAP-A$$ STUPID CASUAL SIMMER system.

Bite me nuff said.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

El Turo
08-12-2004, 05:47 PM
70% of your two month income is $100?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

(Seriously?)

Not trying to be an ***. That's just hard to conceptualize, given that we're all here conversing on the internet over expensive computers and whatnot.


On topic: Anyone ever notice that if you map the "gunsight" view to a button on your joystick that you can "look around" beams and whatnot by toggling the view? I've found that little tip/trick VERY helpful... and I don't own TIR nor plan to in the near future. Hat switches forevah baby!

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 05:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NegativeGee:
Stiring up trouble? oh please sir, stop tickling my ribs!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And yet one more insightfull on topic reply.

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 06:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stubby:
That's like saying the online portion of Il2 should dictate every aspect of how the game is crafted. We know this to be not true considering all the effort put into dgen. BTW, we all know that onliners only make up 10% or less of the folks that actually purchased Il2. TiR Users are a small, tiny fraction of the folks that play Il2 so why would 1C be stupid enough to develop a game around a fringe group of users? Bad business and 1C though a high quality game maker is in it for the money.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah.. news flash for you.. IL2FB currently supports TrackIR.. And using your logic they were dumb enough to suport it years ago with the number of TrackIR users were even less.. So that kind of BLOWS your whole economics argument out of the water!!

That and you didnt seem to understand the inital point.. Allow me to drive it home for you..

Sense the number of TrackIR users is increasing more and more people will have an EXTRA JOYSTICK HAT that can NOW BE USED to control the POV.

Keep in mind this is not limited to TrackIR users.. People who are INTO IT and spent the extra cash on a good THROTTLE with extra HATS and SLIDERS can take advantage of it

Therefore it is TrackIR independed.. I simply mentioned TrackIR because it specifcly deals with the view system.. Where as HATs and SLIDERs can contol *other* things.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stubby:
I have TiR and it is indeed on par in terms of importance and immersion as a stick, throttle and pedal <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stubby:
but I also realize that the masses don't have it (I'll say maybe 2% of all Il2 players have it). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You do realise that your 2% GUESS means nothing to me right?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stubby:
Once TiR approaches the 30 to 50 dollar range, things will change. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope.. it could be free and you would still find whinners that complain about it

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stubby:
As it stands now, it's a rich man's toy developed for a niche market.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not true at all! At least in the real world.. Add up all the things that make up your PC and you will understand it is but a fraction of the cost

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stubby:
Dream on buddy - your request won't happen for another decade.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! What ever gets you to sleep at night.. Im just glad I cleared up that whole economics 101 problem you had with why IL2 would be crazy to suport TrackIR when they aready do! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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WTE_Galway
08-12-2004, 06:08 PM
Whilst enthusiasts like myself are happy to spend money on gear like trackIR .. it costs me less per year to upgrade a gaming computer than my mate pays to be playing a member of his golf club .. some people especially guys with familes cannot afford that.

Anyway why ban what is obviously a popular feature?

You can always disable it if you do not want to use it.

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 06:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
Hello,
as a casual simmer I`d like to say that I`m not crazy enough to spend up to 70% of my 2-month income for TrackIR or any toy that exceeds 100$ magical border.


You can have ANYTHING you want implemented into this game as long as it doesn`t screw up my fun on my CHEAP-A$$ STUPID CASUAL SIMMER system.

Bite me nuff said.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeow 70%? How do you aford your monthly isp charges? let alone a video card and PC that can handly IL2?

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 06:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Apparath:
I am quite sure that trackIR has no chance of becoming the standard in any way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! They said the same thing about the HAT key on joysticks 10+ years ago.. Where are the hard core keyboard view change users today? Not saying they dont exist.. Im sure there is some guy who is missing a thumb that still uses the keyboard to change his views.. But that EXCEPTION to the RULE does not change the facts of the RULE!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Apparath:
It is only going to be a tool used by the people who either are much into it or have enough money to obtain it for more casual use.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I love the way people say that as if they dont have a $1500.00 PC sitting in frot of them!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Apparath:
Ash, you shouldn't assume that people who are much into it will automatically get all the fancy toys that will enhance the flying experience. One of my relatives flew FB about 5-8 hours a day on a 600MHz rig without pedals without TIR... Flying VEFs... He really must have been much INTO IT, doesn't he?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As I said before.. The EXCEPTIONS to the RULE do not change the facts of the RULE.

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BaldieJr
08-12-2004, 06:21 PM
As an Ace who can score at will (especially with the ladies), I think this should be a mandatory feature of all future sims. I'm willing to pay 3-4 times the cost of the game for additional view manipulations.

I also think there should be some sort of "poor people" detector built into the dedicated server (optional, of course) that can detect a clients rig and boot them off the server if they don't meet certain criteria.

I'm so glad you brought up the poverty problem in this sim ASH. This is an issue that has wieghed on me for some time. I feel relieved, now that I've been able to air my feelings.

You rock man.

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NegativeGee
08-12-2004, 06:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
And yet one more insightfull on topic reply.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Annoyed yet? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And its been a while since the words "As an Ace who can score at will" has been uttered round here. RBJ lives http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 06:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
As an Ace who can score at will (especially with the ladies), I think this should be a mandatory feature of all future sims. I'm willing to pay 3-4 times the cost of the game for additional view manipulations.

I also think there should be some sort of "poor people" detector built into the dedicated server (optional, of course) that can detect a clients rig and boot them off the server if they don't meet certain criteria.

I'm so glad you brought up the poverty problem in this sim ASH. This is an issue that has wieghed on me for some time. I feel relieved, now that I've been able to air my feelings.

You rock man.

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http://www.fighterjerks.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>what ever flips your skirt!

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NegativeGee:
Annoyed yet? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah.. but it does show your true colors

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Apparath
08-12-2004, 07:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Apparath:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I love the way people say that as if they dont have a $1500.00 PC sitting in frot of them! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually my main rig was originally bought summer 2000 and upgraded a few times (now 1200mhz duron) , still I would consider the TIR to double the value of the current setup...


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> LOL! They said the same thing about the HAT key on joysticks 10+ years ago.. Where are the hard core keyboard view change users today? Not saying they dont exist.. Im sure there is some guy who is missing a thumb that still uses the keyboard to change his views.. But that EXCEPTION to the RULE does not change the facts of the RULE! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, let me see:

A hat switch:
-Included in any decent flight stick that would get me airborne so I would get it even if I didn't need it
-Cheap. I don't think it costs a dollar/stick to add a hat to a stick design. =&gt; Almost no cost for a simple but efficient tool so why NOT to put it on a stick? It had all the means of becoming a standard.

TIR:
-Has to be obtained separately and is not absolutely required because there are also other means of turning the head. Doesn't seen nearly as necessary as a HOTAS, gfx card or anything else I have thought I would need. Haven't tried it though so can't be sure...

-I don't know if the price would come down with the popularity, I doubt it. When compared to a hat the TIR seems a way more complicated device so it should be more expensive to make. A

-I would maybe buy one if it would be priced more sensibly (below 50€) and available at a local computer equipment shop I would get it when I have the money.


Btw I like the idea of the freely movable head position. It is something I have missed from the beginning. If it would be included I wouldn't see a reason for why it wouldn't be a mappable control just like all the others...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LEXX_Luthor
08-12-2004, 07:58 PM
I missed this thread. ASH I was thinking about this last night and thought the same thing...HAT switch for lean and Mouse View for looking...okay some prefer TIR but I prefer Mouse View, so that can be a simmer/simmerette Choice.

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BaldieJr
08-12-2004, 08:05 PM
Honestly, I like the idea too.

But the way it was presented was bound to start a flame-war unless the freak-patrol spun it into a sarcasm fest. So far, so good.

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 08:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
I missed this thread. ASH I was thinking about this last night and thought the same thing...HAT switch for lean and Mouse View for looking...okay some prefer TIR but I prefer Mouse View, so that can be a simmer/simmerette Choice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger.. Be it mouse, another HAT, a mini joystick on your throttle.. Or some new thing we dont have yet.. Something in combination with the current view to move the POV around.

For the guys who are INTO IT I would recomend the mini joystick on the thorttles.. Like in the pictures I posted.. My CH Pro Throttle mini joystick works great in LOCKON to guide the tgt desgnator.. very fluid motion.. Would work great to manipulate the POV... That in combination with a TrackIR would give you the best imersion factor IMHO! That and it frees up a HAT to do other things.. That and TrackIR is the natural next step in perifial devices

joystick
joystick with HAT
throttle
rudders
TrackIR

and in the future HMD's will put TrackIR out of business... The people who scoff at all this are just not into it as much as others.. I have been playing sims for 15 years or so.. I have seen things come and go.. In a few years bulk of the guys that are into it will have TrackIR.. it will be as natural as a joystick is now.

There will allways be the casual players with the PC for word processing that dabble with a game or two and broke down and bought a joystick.. And they will allways out number the guys who are into it.. Because to be into it.. You have to be a little strange IMHO! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 09:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Honestly, I like the idea too.

But the way it was presented was bound to start a flame-war unless the freak-patrol spun it into a sarcasm fest. So far, so good.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>YAWN.. yeah those other freak-patrol guys with thier sarcasm.. not you.. the other ones.. emmm hmmm

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 09:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Apparath:
Hmm, let me see:

A hat switch:
-Included in any decent flight stick that would get me airborne so I would get it even if I didn't need it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which was not ALL WAYS the case.. There was a time and place that HAT switches didn't exist.. Just a joystick with a fire button.. And it didn't mater because no sim supported the hat anyway... sims like Red Baron, Chuck Yeagers Air Combat, SWOTL... Then the HAT came out and sims like Air Warrior, AOTP, and just about ever sim after that did support the HAT... Now that same thing is happening with TrackIR.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Apparath:
-Cheap. I don't think it costs a dollar/stick to add a hat to a stick design. =&gt; Almost no cost for a simple but efficient tool so why NOT to put it on a stick? It had all the means of becoming a standard.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not every new thing takes off.. Even when it is just an addition to an existing thing.. Take force feedback joysticks for example.. Only about twice the cost.. But force feedback didn't provide all that much more over standard joysticks.. And due to the dumping down of force feedback catering to the GAME world with the SHAKE and the JOLT being more important then the FORCE feedback itself.. Where as on the other hand TrackIR is totally new way of doing things that is so natural.. It is like comparing a keyboard to a joystick with regards to controlling the aircraft.. MOVING your HEAD to MOVE YOUR SIMULATED HEAD is much more natural and imersive then MOVING A HAT KEY WITH YOUR THUMB to MOVE YOUR SIMULATED HEAD.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Apparath:
TIR:
-Has to be obtained separately and is not absolutely required because there are also other means of turning the head. Doesn't seen nearly as necessary as a HOTAS, gfx card or anything else I have thought I would need. Haven't tried it though so can't be sure...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Same could be said for Throttles and Rudders.. Yet some people cant do without them and others can.. Put another way some people are INTO IT and other AINT

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Apparath:
-I don't know if the price would come down with the popularity, I doubt it. When compared to a hat the TIR seems a way more complicated device so it should be more expensive to make. A<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
With Regards to cost.. I just don't get it.. I mean a good joystick cost about $60.00 and a PC that can run IL2 decent enough has to be around $1000.00+ And you guys talk as if TrackIR cost $500.00 or something? RELATIVE TO ALL INPUT OTHER DEVICES it is as CHEAP if not CHEAPER Now if you lost your job after you bought the PC and joystick.. I can understand that $100.00 seems like a lot.. But again.. An EXCEPTION to the RULE

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Apparath:
-I would maybe buy one if it would be priced more sensibly (below 50) and available at a local computer equipment shop I would get it when I have the money.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Same thing folks use to say about buying the Thrust master joystick with a HAT on it.. It was not at SEARS for you to go get.. You had to order them by mail in most areas.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Apparath:
Btw I like the idea of the freely movable head position. It is something I have missed from the beginning. If it would be included I wouldn't see a reason for why it wouldn't be a mappable control just like all the others...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is what I'm saying

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Tooz_69GIAP
08-12-2004, 09:10 PM
Track IR is not becoming the standard. I think there was a poll not long ago and something like 14% of the responses said they used Track IR.

And there are a good few folks who can't use track IR coz it makes them sick.

Anyway, I fly full real, I have never used padlock and rarely fly in padlock on servers, and I fly mainly in coops, or online wars, and the odd dogfight with my squad.

I have a keyboard, and a 4 button stick with a throttle slider, I use the keypad for view changes, and use a low end system (everything added together, my rig has cost me 400 in total). I do fine with my set up. Although it's not that I don't want all these fancy gadgets and $3,000+ gaming rigs, etc, I can't afford it. And I am pretty sure that's the case for a good many folks. $100 to me is a fair amount of money to spend on gaming when you got the rent to pay dude!!

I just hope I am able to scrape together the components to set myself up with a rig that will run BoB on low settings by the time it comes out!!

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

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[This message was edited by Tooz_69GIAP on Thu August 12 2004 at 08:23 PM.]

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 09:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
Track IR is not becoming the standard. I think there was a poll not long ago and something like 14% of the responses said they used Track IR.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Same thing could be said for joysticks with HAT keys when they first came out.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
And there are a good few folks who can't use track IR coz it makes them sick.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And there are a good few folks who have arthritis in thier hands and can not manipulate a HAT.. Again EXCEPTIONS to the RULE do not change the FACTS of the RULE

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
Anyway, I fly full real, I have never used padlock and rarely fly in padlock on servers, and I fly mainly in coops, or online wars, and the odd dogfight with my squad.

I have a keyboard, and a 4 button stick with a throttle slider, and a low end system. I do fine with my set up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And add up everything you spent on that and TrackIR would be a small fraction of it

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
Although it's not that I don't want all these fancy gadgets and $3,000+ gaming rigs, etc, I can't afford it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again.. adding TrackIR to an existing system does not cost you $3000.00 Take your rig for example

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
PC..........$1000.00
joystick....$ 60.00
throttle....$ 60.00
video card..$ 300.00
sound card..$ 80.00
total.......--------
$1500.00

Add TrackIR $ 150.00
total.......--------
$1650.00

$3000.00 - 1650.00 = $1350.00</pre>
So as you can see.. The 3000.00 argument does not fly.. RELITIVE to what you have spent it aint a big deal.. Adding to an existing system makes it even a smaller deal! You can NOT complain to me about the price with what you spent allready it 10 times that amount!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
And I am pretty sure that's the case for a good many folks. $100 to me is a fair amount of money to spend on gaming when you got the rent to pay dude!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well you dont see me lighting my cigar with hundreads either!

My point is simple.. Look at what you spend now and compare it to what TrackIR cost.. Than you will see how silly the POOR ME argument is.. You aint poor if you have come this far.. Now if you dont have a PC, joystick, or IL2.. Well then what are you doing in this forum in the first place?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
I just hope I am able to scrape together the components to set myself up with a rig that will run BoB on low settings by the time it comes out!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It is an expensive hobby.. No doublt about it.. And out of all the things you could buy.. TrackIR is as cheap as the rest if not cheaper and adds more to the imersion than the rest

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BaldieJr
08-12-2004, 09:34 PM
I can get a nice world band radio for the cost of TiR.

I can get a small TV for the cost of TiR.

I can buy a card table, chairs, two decks of cards, and several nights worth of snacks and drinks for the cost of TiR.

I can get season tickets to the orchestra for the cost of TiR.

I can get several lap-dances for the cost of TiR.

I could get you to stop arguing with everyone for the cost of TiR.

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LEXX_Luthor
08-12-2004, 09:51 PM
TIR could come down in price, especially if there may be a competitive method. Or there could be simpler TIR~esque solutions, for example the 40$ working class racing pedal rudder Solution without which I would still not be using any pedals.

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:
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Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Tooz_69GIAP
08-12-2004, 09:51 PM
PC..........$1000.00 &lt;--300.00
joystick....$ 60.00 &lt;-- 15.00
throttle....$ 60.00 &lt;-- don't have one
video card..$ 300.00 &lt;-- 0.00 got it from a friend for free
sound card..$ 80.00 &lt;-- came with the PC
512mb DDR RAM &lt;-- 65.00
Headphones with mic &lt;-- 15.00
total.......--------
$1500.00 &lt;-- 395.00

At current exchange rates, 395 = approx $725

I don't pay for my net conn, it's my flatmate's conn. I pay rent and bills.

And with TIR currently costing in the region of $150, that is about 20% of the total cost of my entire set up right now. Everyone has a different situation, and not everyone adheres to the same standard as yourself.

Honestly, right now I don't care what 1C does in regard to view manipulation so long as I can still play the game and be competitive with a low end system, and a lack of gadgets.

I'm just lucky I'm good at recycling, and have friends willing to donate old components for me to use.

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

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Za Rodinu!
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WTE_Galway
08-12-2004, 10:08 PM
this thread is way off topic .. who cares who has trackir

this is the real point:

- padlock is not compulsory its optional

- so what justification is there for banning something thats optional for the user/server to select ??

i love trackir but does not mean i need to force everyone else to use it .. what happened to freedom of choice ??

ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 11:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
I can get a _nice_ world band radio for the cost of TiR.

I can get a small TV for the cost of TiR.

I can buy a card table, chairs, two decks of cards, and several nights worth of snacks and drinks for the cost of TiR.

I can get season tickets to the orchestra for the cost of TiR.

I can get several lap-dances for the cost of TiR.

I could get you to stop arguing with everyone for the cost of TiR.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And you can buy a phone card and call someone who cares for the cost of a TiR.. So what is your point?

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 11:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
PC..........$1000.00 &lt;--300.00
joystick....$ 60.00 &lt;-- 15.00
throttle....$ 60.00 &lt;-- don't have one
video card..$ 300.00 &lt;-- 0.00 got it from a friend for free
sound card..$ 80.00 &lt;-- came with the PC
512mb DDR RAM &lt;-- 65.00
Headphones with mic &lt;-- 15.00
total.......--------
$1500.00 &lt;-- 395.00

At current exchange rates, 395 = approx $725

I don't pay for my net conn, it's my flatmate's conn. I pay rent and bills.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You have to consider yourself lucky that your even playing it now.. Let alone bob in the future.. Thus you would be one of the EXCEPTIONS to the RULE not the RULE.. Unless you feel that most people here got thier vid card for free and thier isp for free.. Me.. Im operating under the impression that MOST people pay for those kinds of things. Which aint a bad thing mind you.. I was a starving student once too.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
And with TIR currently costing in the region of $150, that is about 20% of the total cost of my entire set up right now. Everyone has a different situation, and not everyone adheres to the same standard as yourself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which is why I keep pointing out the EXCEPTIONS to the RULE!! Or.. do you truly belive that most people get all that stuff for free? Thus changing the RULE?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
Honestly, right now I don't care what 1C does in regard to view manipulation so long as I can still play the game and be competitive with a low end system, and a lack of gadgets.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well.. competitive with a low end system.. Sorry.. But the FACT is the guys with the high end systems will have a edge.. So as time goes by your rig is going to be less able to compete.. Unless you get more free stuff

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
I'm just lucky I'm good at recycling, and have friends willing to donate old components for me to use.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes.. you are! And that makes you one of the EXCEPTIONS to the RULE

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 11:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
TIR could come down in price, especially if there may be a competitive method. Or there could be simpler TIR~esque solutions, for example the 40$ working class racing pedal rudder Solution without which I would still not be using any pedals.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yup... same was true back when Thrustmaster had the only Joystick with a HAT key.. They were pricy relitive to other sticks.. I hope other companys will start making TrackIR like devices.. It will make for better and cheaper products.. And ezer for the casual user to justify in his mind the cost of one! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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ASH at S-MART
08-12-2004, 11:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
this thread is way off topic .. who cares who has trackir

this is the real point:

- padlock is not compulsory its optional

- so what justification is there for banning something thats optional for the user/server to select ??

i love trackir but does not mean i need to force everyone else to use it .. what happened to freedom of choice ??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well I dont know where you got the impression that anyone wants to ban anything? I made a simple statment.. NO NEED FOR PADLOCK ANYMORE along with a request that BoB allows us to move the POV via a HAT like device.. In that when you get a TrackIR the HAT you currently use can now be used for the POV lean thing. You can still used padlock.. just like some people still use the keyboard instead of a joystick to fly the aircraft... not banned.. Just not needed in that there is something better to use in its place

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NegativeGee
08-13-2004, 03:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:

Nah.. but it does show your true colors<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And what colours are those TAGERT?

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

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Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

Nanuk66
08-13-2004, 04:44 AM
Lol ash ur a cok m8.

All those references to quake and stuff too huh! U obviously got ur assed kicked when trying to play those games. Im sure you gave your best effort thou.

You said that there is no need for padlock anymore, well there is. Thats it really. This coulda been stopped on the first page. Alot of people still want padlock and no 'hardcore', i know im right, republican yank with a bit of cash is gonna change that. So i guess it sucks to be you.

U'll just have to continue flying with us poor, no TIR, no immersion, no pedals or separate throttle players and get ur *** shot off anyway. Saying people who dont have these little expensive toys are not 'into' IL2 shows what a cok u are. Oh, and i quite easily have the money to buy TIR if i wanted to, np at all. But id rather spend my money on other things and find my IL2 flying experience very immersive if i want it to be and a whole lotta fun too.

Belittling other players, like the brazilians and such like, with little comments like 'sorry about your bad luck' and stuff like that which is clear from the tone of ur post that ur being sarcastic (im sure ur deny it!) also shows that u are indeed a cok.

But the worst thing, to me personally, was this load of sh1te:

'Old saying.. loose sight loose fight.. Maybe your not so hot because you loose sight? '

I bet that isnt the 'old saying'. Maybe ur not so hot cause u cant spell.

And to all those decent Americans out there, this is the kinda blinkered yank that gives you a bad name to the rest of the world.

Oh and plez do bring it on Ash, i still have 5 1/2 hrs of work left today and arguing with people like you is more a pleasure than anything else.

So i say again, you saying 'no need for padlock anymore' is wrong. There is.

-----------------------------
English lesson 101:
The word is 'Lose' not 'Loose'. e.g.
That IL2 is gonna lose the fight against that 109.
That IL2's wing looks loose, its gonna fall off.
If i dive too vertically i will lose my wing. k thx.
------------------------------

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-13-2004, 04:48 AM
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Man !! ASH I bet your shift / day just flew by last night didn't it hehe.

Like I said your post was just begging for it and it seems I was right (something I really get a woody out of I can tell yah)

OT I think we should burn all poor folk at the stake, and if not then there are a couple of minefields out there we could get them to run across.

P.s I know where we can find them as they are the ones with out some form of silver dot stuck on their forheads.

P.P.s whats with the mods? I would have thought at least one of em would have stuck their head in hear at some point to feel the love? I think they have abandoned us to go form some kinda hippy peacenick colony. That or ASH stole the keys to the locker for the banhammer and smote them all to the next parallel dimension where oleg actually built a tank simulator and we are all currently biatching about the undermodeld T-34 versus the ridculous noob UBER sherman.

P.P.S as jack nicholson said once upon a time

CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG

MWUAHAHAHAHHAHAHA HAHAHA HAH AHA HAH AHA HAH AH AHA HA HAH

ahem *cough* I will get me coat now

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-13-2004, 04:52 AM
OI NANUK you smell and I think your ugly

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

LEARN TO SPELL NOOB

Ever hear the phrase 'FISHED IN'??

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

P.S I thought you and BENNY were getting married ? Back from the honey moon already is it ?
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

Nanuk66
08-13-2004, 05:04 AM
'OI NANUK you smell and I think your ugly'

Good job ur a bloke then!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

'Ever hear the phrase 'FISHED IN'??'

No m8, got anything to do with 'sucked in'?

'P.S I thought you and BENNY were getting married ? Back from the honey moon already is it ?'

No m8, i dumped the B'stard! He didnt swallow! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

P.S. Do You? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

-----------------------------
English lesson 101:
The word is 'Lose' not 'Loose'. e.g.
That IL2 is gonna lose the fight against that 109.
That IL2's wing looks loose, its gonna fall off.
If i dive too vertically i will lose my wing. k thx.
------------------------------

carguy_
08-13-2004, 05:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
Oh and plez do bring it on Ash, i still have 5 1/2 hrs of work left today and arguing with people like you is more a pleasure than anything else.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
P.P.s whats with the mods? I would have thought at least one of em would have stuck their head in hear at some point to feel the love? I think they have abandoned us to go form some kinda hippy peacenick colony. That or ASH stole the keys to the locker for the banhammer and smote them all to the next parallel dimension where oleg actually built a tank simulator and we are all currently biatching about the undermodeld T-34 versus the ridculous noob UBER sherman.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-13-2004, 05:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>No m8, i dumped the B'stard! He didnt swallow! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

P.S. Do You? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

-----------------------------
English lesson 101:
The word is 'Lose' not 'Loose'. e.g.
That IL2 is gonna lose the fight against that 109.
That IL2's wing looks loose, its gonna fall off.
If i dive too vertically i will lose my wing. k thx.
------------------------------<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only if you send me some flowers honey

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

BM357_TinMan
08-13-2004, 05:25 AM
Awesome Idea, but I think that the "lean" feature should be maped to the hat (in a "pan" type mode) or the mouse via the user's choice.

That way, we could use our mouse sticks on our throttles, if we have them, to lean around.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BM357_TinMan
xo BM357 VFG
www.bm357.com (http://www.bm357.com)

BM357_TinMan
08-13-2004, 05:34 AM
I can't believe that there is such a nasty reaction to a good idea for progress. This would actually work very well WITH padlock.

This is an awesome idea, could lean to read guages that are now hard to read in some planes, etc.

Just the thought of having the option to free that "head on a stick" fealing and add more imersion is great to me.

I'm having a hard time understanding where the resistance and anomos is coming from...

BM357_TinMan
xo BM357 VFG
www.bm357.com (http://www.bm357.com)

609IAP_Recon
08-13-2004, 05:45 AM
"That kind of liberal worst case senario works great on the masses but not me.. "

LOL

I liked that one - good stuff mate - this is better than the O'Reilly Factor!

S!
609IAP_Recon
http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

McCallaway
08-13-2004, 05:54 AM
I remember a discussion I had a while ago where we thought of a Rainbow Siw-like system to lean in the cockpit. Just two keys, lean left and lean right to :
- look over your shoulder to check your six,
- look down to improve your nav without having to bank or flip the plane,
- see this damn compass which is hidden behind the gunsight.

Sounds good to me. Simple enough to use, lots of freedom added, immersion, you name it. Of course, it should be tried to know if it is really good, but it would be stupid not to try it.

ASH at S-MART
08-13-2004, 11:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
Lol ash ur a cok m8.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Really?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
All those references to quake and stuff too huh! U obviously got ur assed kicked when trying to play those games. Im sure you gave your best effort thou.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
You said that there is no need for padlock anymore, well there is. Thats it really.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Man.. is the concept that hard? Does anyone here have an imagination? Can no one see the evloution of it all? Just so you know.. There was a time and place where there was no padlock and people played flight sims just fine.. And even with padlock many choose not to use it.. So there is no NEED now let alone in the near future once TrackIR types of devices become the norm. Padlock is neat in how it mimics fluid head movments.. But it is like autopilot in the way it tracks for you and finds targets for you.. Now if you NEED that then you do NEED padlock.. But many people got along fine without it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
This coulda been stopped on the first page.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actully your reply could have been stopped had your read it and realised I was talking about the near future when TrackIR will be the standard way of manipulating your views.. That combined with the addition of a method to LEAN (move POV) will make it so padlock IS NOT NEEDED.. Just like the HAT made the KEYBOARD NOT NEEDED!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
Alot of people still want padlock and no 'hardcore', i know im right, republican yank with a bit of cash is gonna change that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Jezsh.. You need to keep your head out of the sun down under.. Your seeing things that are not there.. Or maybe that Quake comment hit a little to close to home and you took it personal? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
So i guess it sucks to be you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yah.. It sucked today.. Took my laptop and left work around 1:00 and went down to the beach and watched the girls play vollyball.. Nothing like geting paid to work and watch girls play vollyball.. It really sucks! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
U'll just have to continue flying with us poor, no TIR, no immersion, no pedals or separate throttle players and get ur *** shot off anyway.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
Saying people who dont have these little expensive toys are not 'into' IL2 shows what a cok u are.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm you seem to have cok on the brain? Is that some Auzzie term for KING? Or GOD?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
Oh, and i quite easily have the money to buy TIR if i wanted to, np at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
But id rather spend my money on other things and find my IL2 flying experience very immersive if i want it to be and a whole lotta fun too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
Belittling other players, like the brazilians and such like, with little comments like 'sorry about your bad luck' and stuff like that which is clear from the tone of ur post that ur being sarcastic (im sure ur deny it!) also shows that u are indeed a cok.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Man.. there is that cok thing again.. You sure seem to half cok comming out of your lips alot.. Tell me.. What does it mean? Is it like that term you use when talking to other men.. like mate?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
But the worst thing, to me personally, was this load of sh1te:

'Old saying.. loose sight loose fight.. Maybe your not so hot because you loose sight? '

I bet that isnt the 'old saying'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A bet you would loose

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
Maybe ur not so hot cause u cant spell.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! Comming from you? Now that is funny!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
And to all those decent Americans out there, this is the kinda blinkered yank that gives you a bad name to the rest of the world.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! Im sorry.. Where you under the impression that I give a rip about what you think of me?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
Oh and plez do bring it on Ash, i still have 5 1/2 hrs of work left today and arguing with people like you is more a pleasure than anything else. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I would think you got enough of that working behind the counter selling kangaroo burgers with frys?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:
So i say again, you saying 'no need for padlock anymore' is wrong. There is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Go back and read it again.. It is clear you dont get it

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

ASH at S-MART
08-13-2004, 11:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
Awesome Idea, but I think that the "lean" feature should be maped to the hat (in a "pan" type mode) or the mouse via the user's choice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger! Any and all other input devices should be able to adj the POV. My only and simple point that SO MANY OF THE OTHERS CLEARLY MISSED is that when TrackIR devices become the standard in the next few years it will free up that HAT key most people use now to do the LEAN thing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
That way, we could use our mouse sticks on our throttles, if we have them, to lean around.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Given the choise that is what I would use! But.. do they call those mini-mouses or mini-joysticks? The ones on the throttles? I like the throttle for views.. Even before I had TrackIR I used the HAT on the throttle instead of the HAT on the joystick because I found trying to MOVE my aircraft and MOVE my view with the same hand messed up my aim.. That and in some joystick positioins it was hard to control my thumb smoothly.. Where as on the throttle that is not the case.. The throttle hardly ever moves.. And when it does.. just a little forward and back

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

ASH at S-MART
08-13-2004, 11:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
I can't believe that there is such a nasty reaction to a good idea for progress.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah.. who knows what drives people.. I thought if I asked all the Quake types to not reply from the get go it would keep them away.. But it just seems to have drawn them in.. Like flys to a flame

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
This would actually work very well WITH padlock.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True! It would even work for people with TWO HATS.. But.. I think they would need ONE HAT on a throttle and ONE HAT on a joystick for it to work.. Unless they have two thumbs? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
This is an awesome idea, could lean to read guages that are now hard to read in some planes, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That too! As for the idea.. Nothing really orginal about it.. Just wanted to point out that when folks move up to TrackIR it will free up a HAT for this purpose.. And once they experance TrackIR they will realise they dont NEED padlock anymore.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
Just the thought of having the option to free that "head on a stick" fealing and add more imersion is great to me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It is the just one area of flight sims that need improvment.. But goes along why to improve imersion.. That is you could spend alot of time and money polishing up the FM's and some people wouldnt even notice.. But add this feature to a sim and everyone would benifit.. Except for a few.. There will allways be exceptions to the rule

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
I'm having a hard time understanding where the resistance and anomos is coming from...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Enh.. This forum has been that way for a long time.. The IBTL types love to BnZ a topic.. and if that didnt work fly back in later and strike a match and leave again.. Never once commenting on the topic.. Then when it goes bad the fly in once more to say.. See I told you so.. Oh well.. What ever flips thier skirts.. Human nature I guess?

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
08-13-2004, 11:38 PM
that F15 Flight Sim throttle in the pic you posted on the first page is hella cool

be cool to get the "lean " feature too ...... is a good idear

. . . . but seeing as there is a lot of people who like Padlock , & that there is a lot of people who have zero flight sim equipment apart from a joystick . . . . . . why not keep it as well ?

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Dawg-of-death
08-13-2004, 11:49 PM
Why wouldn't I want padlock?. I don't want a track IR. Why would I want one of those . I have a padlock LOL. Cockpit veiw sucks and is very unrealistic. Its like flying with one eye down a 21" tunnel. 100 square inches of veiw isn't very real. 200 inch isn't either but twice as good as 100. Leave it the way it is thanx. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

S~

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

Hoarmurath
08-13-2004, 11:59 PM
I don't understand why there should be no padlock at all... you know that it is an option, that it can be deactivated?

Another one trying to force its own personal view of how a game should be played...

The fact you don't use some options don't make them less interesting.

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ASH at S-MART
08-14-2004, 01:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
that F15 Flight Sim throttle in the pic you posted on the first page is hella cool<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I know.. that is a hot looking throt!! I have the CH looking thing.. But that one in the pic is a newer model I think? In that I dont have the slider wheel on the front.. just another HAT.. Whould Chould use a slider!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
be cool to get the "lean " feature too ...... is a good idear<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well.. something that has come up in alot of previous posts.. Back then the big concern by most (a *guy*) was HOW would we control that LEAN feature.. I tried to explain it to *him* but *he* just didnt get it.. That something like a HAT could do the trick.. Than as I was enjoying my TrackIR I realised that alot of folks have cheap sticks that might only have one HAT.. Thus when I said use a HAT to do the LEAN they probally got all confused.. So.. Tiz why I pointed out that *when* they get a TrackIR it will free up that HAT from doing VIEWS and can now be used for LEANS

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
. . . . but seeing as there is a lot of people who like Padlock , & that there is a lot of people who have zero flight sim equipment apart from a joystick . . . . . . why not keep it as well ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I know it may seem like I said REMOVE padlock.. What with all the dweeb replys I have recived in this post accusing me of such.. But.. NEVER SAID THAT! I simplys said padlock is NOT NEEDED! Just like IMHO using the KEYBOARD to FLY is NOT NEEDED because we have joysticks.. But.. There are still a few people out there that still use the KEYBOARD to fly with... As painful as that may seem to most of us.. Is how the HAT will be with regards to views in a few years.. Padlock was a method to simulate what HATs could not do well.. A fluid motion to mimi head movments.. To make it work they had to add the auto-pilot like ability to LOCK ONTO the target and track it.. Some people NEED some *suto-thing* to find bogies for them.. So I guess *some* in the future will be using padlock still.. Just like some still use the KEYBOARD to fly with

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ASH at S-MART
08-14-2004, 01:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
I don't understand why there should be no padlock at all... you know that it is an option, that it can be deactivated?

Another one trying to force its own personal view of how a game should be played...

The fact _you_ don't use some options don't make them less interesting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Man... does anybody read first? What part of NO NEED do we get confused with REMOVE?

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