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View Full Version : Hero Rebalancing, will we Ever get it?



Elementalist.
08-22-2013, 01:41 PM
It has been a couple of expansions since people have been asking for this, do you plan to change anything? I am referring to boosting weaker heroes than nerfing good heroes of course (with the exception of unique creatures recycling that should not be hero-related anyway). There have been some threads about this, do you aknowledge the problem at least? I find it hard to believe that it would be so much work to fix Siegfried, Acamas, Crag, Kieran, Noboru,Takana etc while it would give a so much more interesting meta.

KingSp00n
08-22-2013, 01:50 PM
Yes please. Do something about these heroes! And don't forget Jezziel, the only thing she invokes is laughter at how poop she is.

Milky97
08-22-2013, 02:10 PM
Its simply impossible to make every hero equally strong.

DoubleDeck
08-22-2013, 02:40 PM
Yeah, give champions access to another spell school (like Xorm access to Prime)......

J4mesR4ge
08-22-2013, 05:15 PM
Yeah, give champions access to another spell school (like Xorm access to Prime)......

I think other heros needs a rework more than Xorm, Xorm rush deck is actually ok, you can deploy a juggernaut in first turn if u start seccond, thats a very fast rush, what can takana deploy if he use gold pile starting second? A Coral Priestess? A kappa? Maybe changing his ability can be more interesting, for example: All friendly creatures with honour gain +X atack value (+1 for honour 1, 2 for honour 2, etc) but I think Honoured Land have the same efect :/

bierefoot
08-22-2013, 05:32 PM
Its simply impossible to make every hero equally strong.

Yes it is adapt the hero hp fonction of his win rate

Schrudafruh
08-22-2013, 06:15 PM
Yes it is adapt the hero hp fonction of his win rate

This is actually an interesting idea. All heroes would automatically converge to a 50% win rate more or less.
But there is a bad side effect. For example imagine a metagame where Dhamiria slowpoke is the ubber deck with 90% win rate. Dhamiria would go down to very low starting HP, hurting all Dhamiria decks, making basically anything but slow poke playable (amongst dhamiria decks).

ManlyMantonio
08-22-2013, 06:25 PM
It wouldn't be hard to raise the HP of the crappy heroes that no one plays. 20 HP seems like an arbitrary boundary for max HP. We have heroes that start with less HP, so the same logic can go the other way.

KingSp00n
08-23-2013, 12:34 AM
Of course, its not like we'll ever get any actual insight from the devs about this.
"Because lol, what is communication?"

M0rw47h
08-23-2013, 02:11 AM
Yeah, give champions access to another spell school (like Xorm access to Prime)......

Why would anyone play Garant/Phrias then...?

midarnel1
08-23-2013, 02:31 AM
It's got a lot in it.http://denver.ukmerritt.com/1.jpg
http://denver.ukmerritt.com/2.jpg
http://denver.ukmerritt.com/3.jpg
http://denver.ukmerritt.com/4.jpg
http://denver.ukmerritt.com/5.jpg

DeeJayDino
08-23-2013, 08:11 AM
Yeah, give champions access to another spell school (like Xorm access to Prime)......

Another bad idea. The heroes are divided into classes:
- fighter - 2 might and 1 destiny / only one, main magic school / hero ability boost creatures directly
- mage - 2 magic and 1 destiny / 18 hp / main magic school and 2 others / ability cost is to discard a card
- lord - 1 might 1 magic 1 destiny / 2 magic schools without main magic school (only ishuma has access to main magic school)
- seeker - 1 might 1 magic 2 destiny / no ability
- reward heroes - theese are special
- caller - those are like lords but they are from herald of void pack and have access to main magic school (only noboru doesnt have his main magic school so he is more like "lord" and ishuma is more like "caller") / ability is strong and expensive

Your proposal is against this classes.

The weak heroes are usualy mages, so boosting theese heroes could be done by make their ability stronger. it can be done by make their abilities cheaper, instead of discarding card they should cost 2 or 1 resources

Xorm is strong enough, leave him alone.

DoubleDeck
08-23-2013, 04:47 PM
I just find that using Xorm you cannot get to 1500 elo, let alone 1400 elo.....

ZergRusher
09-20-2013, 10:27 AM
Yes it is adapt the hero hp fonction of his win rate

that's a great idea!! It's simple and effective and easily measurable.

The problem is that they should be making statistical analyses of winrates in ELO>1500 and jakcpot tournies. Sth that blizzard has been doing for years with SC2. And i'm afraid that they aren't doing so.
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Champions shouldn't have access to another school of magic. I won't say anything about Xorm b/c i've never played him but i think his rushes are very potent.

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And if we are talking about balance can they nerf Wolf Captain again and give a proper boost to haven. It's ridiculous that the balance of haven relies on one epic card that is impossible to get for newer players.

SoilBurn
09-20-2013, 12:35 PM
Analyzing utilization and win rates of single Heroes is the way to go here.

I fully support Elementalist's proposal. My list of underpowered Heroes who could use a buff looks like this:

Urgent buff necessary:
Jezziel
Siegfried
Acamas
Crag Hack

Slight buff needed to make these playable:
Kieran
Mother Namtaru
Kaiko
Akane

Do not buff:
Xorm --> used quite a lot already
Takana --> from what I have seen in action Honor deck pack some brutal force already (I would like to see some win % here)

Mryth01
09-20-2013, 12:50 PM
Another bad idea. The heroes are divided into classes:
- fighter - 2 might and 1 destiny / only one, main magic school / hero ability boost creatures directly
[...]
Academy will have a champion that starts with 2 might 1 magic and has 2 spell schools, thus breaking that "fighter class"

I want to add to the "need a buff asap" list Kal-Azzar, he is inferior to Dhamiria/Ariana in almost every way yet appears to be created for control-type deck.

Elementalist.
09-20-2013, 08:34 PM
Analyzing utilization and win rates of single Heroes is the way to go here.

I fully support Elementalist's proposal. My list of underpowered Heroes who could use a buff looks like this:

Urgent buff necessary:
Jezziel
Siegfried
Acamas
Crag Hack

Slight buff needed to make these playable:
Kieran
Mother Namtaru
Kaiko
Akane

Do not buff:
Xorm --> used quite a lot already
Takana --> from what I have seen in action Honor deck pack some brutal force already (I would like to see some win % here)
That's what I was talking about :) Some of those heroes could be improved by introduction of new units that fit their playstyle but others have too weak a special to be considered competitive or even playable. Why do you think so many heroes carry strength of the sea? Because there is a small pool of heroes to choose from!

- Crag is nice with maxed DA/pao but this is a rare occurence. And even with more interesting neutrals, 2 might is not enough. He could use 1 fortune at least.
- Jezziel's special only makes sense when you have a means to resurrect discarded units. Two of them(angel of mercy and sister's tent require 2 fortune) and the spells are rare or epic. And the heal for discard a measly 3hp? Useless.
- When was the last time you saw Siegfried? Just give him a passive +1hp for haven melee only. Activated even for free is not an option when you can draw a card instead.
- Acamas' special might as well be nonexistent, nobody plays enraged units with him. Maybe give +1 passive attack to enraged like Takana does with honour?
- Kieran's ability is also useless. He only remains playable because of 2 starting might and good schools but he is just weak for a special hero that requires 30 withs with every faction.. So let his ability be ongoing but only affect melee/flyers or perhaps units with no enemy retaliation.
- Takana is kind of alright except he would be better off with a passive +1hp to honour units instead of +1 att.
- Adar Malik special should be changed to not include unique units, assuming unique units are not changed to prohibit their recycling in the first place..

Mother Namtaru and Kaiko can be playable but they could use a slight boost admitedly. Perhaps the introduction of low might useful units would be enough.

And finally.. I am not so sure that Nergal deserved his nerf. The problem was less in his poison and more in the fact that necro had too many low level magical units which allowed a wild spirits rush. That and most core necro units being easy to obtain and make a creature build. That hero was destroyed with the nerf and only exists as a slowpoke, I think we can return his ability to what it was..

NagiShaman
09-23-2013, 09:04 AM
That's what I was talking about :) Some of those heroes could be improved by introduction of new units that fit their playstyle but others have too weak a special to be considered competitive or even playable. Why do you think so many heroes carry strength of the sea? Because there is a small pool of heroes to choose from!

- Crag is nice with maxed DA/pao but this is a rare occurence. And even with more interesting neutrals, 2 might is not enough. He could use 1 fortune at least.
- Jezziel's special only makes sense when you have a means to resurrect discarded units. Two of them(angel of mercy and sister's tent require 2 fortune) and the spells are rare or epic. And the heal for discard a measly 3hp? Useless.
- When was the last time you saw Siegfried? Just give him a passive +1hp for haven melee only. Activated even for free is not an option when you can draw a card instead.
- Acamas' special might as well be nonexistent, nobody plays enraged units with him. Maybe give +1 passive attack to enraged like Takana does with honour?
- Kieran's ability is also useless. He only remains playable because of 2 starting might and good schools but he is just weak for a special hero that requires 30 withs with every faction.. So let his ability be ongoing but only affect melee/flyers or perhaps units with no enemy retaliation.
- Takana is kind of alright except he would be better off with a passive +1hp to honour units instead of +1 att.
- Adar Malik special should be changed to not include unique units, assuming unique units are not changed to prohibit their recycling in the first place..

Mother Namtaru and Kaiko can be playable but they could use a slight boost admitedly. Perhaps the introduction of low might useful units would be enough.

And finally.. I am not so sure that Nergal deserved his nerf. The problem was less in his poison and more in the fact that necro had too many low level magical units which allowed a wild spirits rush. That and most core necro units being easy to obtain and make a creature build. That hero was destroyed with the nerf and only exists as a slowpoke, I think we can return his ability to what it was..
Ubi should hire you, do not know who is working with them, but none of the people did not invent a good solution as given by you.

Elementalist.
09-23-2013, 12:47 PM
Nah, many of those suggestions float around the forums. I am not the only one asking for them :)

And I totally forgot about Kal Azaar! The poor fellow cannot do much nowadays though I am not sure what should be done with him. A lot will depend on the new spells, if those do not help him then he really could use a buff.

ElkazFATE
09-23-2013, 12:58 PM
Crag hack noo need buff. In HoV many ppl got 1501 elo with this hero, even 1600(al-kazar, bbjw). Give him buff and he will be at 2000elo:)

Elementalist.
09-23-2013, 01:44 PM
Let me guess, with maxed DA, pao and vulture rider. That's not saying much.

ElkazFATE
09-23-2013, 02:58 PM
After forgotten wars this cards will be easy to get, add to them phoenix and crag will be one of the most dangerous rush deck in this game. No need any buff.

PengthePenguin
09-23-2013, 05:03 PM
IMO Jezziel is the worst hero in the game currently. Her ability is useless, her spell schools have zero synergy (SotL so OP when combined with.... Gate to Nowhere?) and offer no single reliable way to clear the board once your enemy has taken all the board control because of Haven's weak creatures and 0/2/1 stats. Oh, and Haven fortunes suck too!

Let's say that those starting stats weren't the problem, if there would be a pair of 2-cost 1-might requirement creatures for every faction, so that Invokers could actually do something on their 2nd turn (most factions have only one viable t1 drop, you see). Even then, Jezziels ability would be terrible and useless, even though the hero COULD be played.

plawress
09-23-2013, 06:11 PM
Just make Jezziel's ability targeting an empty square healing for 3 all adjacent units.
Heaven decks already clump their units due to wc's and guard effects, make them think about positioning better and reward them.

Bond2King
09-23-2013, 06:31 PM
Balancing all the heroes to make them "equal" is very hard and not really necessary. As long as there are a variety of good decks at the top level and not 1 or 2 decks that are just better than the rest then the game is balanced (at least at the top). You're never going to have all the heroes be tier 1. Also, when buffing heroes, you risk making other heroes of the same faction "bad." For example as mentioned earlier giving primal to Xorm would make Phrias and Garrant underpowered (the three are actually quite well balanced at the moment). I don't mean heroes should never be buffed, some of the suggestions in this thread are good, just that it's not the end of the world if there are a couple "bad" heroes.