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XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 10:15 PM
nt = No Text


"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 10:15 PM
nt = No Text


"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 10:17 PM
The plane still flies well. Hasn't been castrated, nor has it been given amphetimines.

Stalls a little eaier and will spin quicker... but that just makes it more fun to fly /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif And feels more realistic.

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XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 11:06 PM
Engine still won't overheat
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Message Edited on 08/13/0309:07AM by Avi8or

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 11:08 PM
HAVE NO FEAR, SHE'S NOT DEAD!!!!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Having been an avid Hurri MkIIc flyer for the past few months, these are the things I've noticed about the MkIIc, post-patch1.1b:

- She is definitely slower in level flight, noticeably, but I haven't exactly measured....I'd say about 50kph.

- It still climbs very steady between 260 and 280kph.

- It still turns very well.

- There is no fuel mix, which I'm seeing posted around, but I'm not sure if it was intentional or not. Other planes seem to have lost manual fuel mix as well.

- The Supercharger 2 stage becomes effective above 3500m now, instead of at 2500m. It doesn't seem to boost the engine as much as before. However, you can still keep the revs above the red box with Supercharger 1, Forzash and full power for awhile, later with Supercharger 2.

- It definitely bleeds more E in turns and hard maneuvers. I didn't notice any harder stall tendencies, maybe due to my stick setup.

One great thing I've noticed is that it accelerates in a dive quicker now and seems steadier up to 640ish for a good shot and back up again. It will bleed more E now, but will still do an effective zoom climb. Hurri pilots will just have to take a little more time now to get higher and use more energy tactics than turn battles. The four hispanos are still the most effective close range cannons./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Hispanos....that brings me to the one bad thing that still plagues the Hurri MkIIc. The hispano cannon shells just disappear off the screen at almost exactly 1km. Compared to a Yak3 or an LA7 with SHVAKs. These cannons were very similar, with the Hispano actually having greater muzzle velocity and a heavier projectile.

Spawn a multiplayer game and with both planes on the ground, zoom away with the mouse and hold the brake, while firing the cannons. Use the Hurri MkIIc, Yak3 and LA7. Using approx. the same distance perspective, compare the three. You'll see the SHVAKS travel almost three times as far as the Hispano shells and the Yak's machine gun fire is amazing.

You can also do this with a quick mission and use the icon distance to really see how much they differ in the first head-on. I have a couple of tracks that you can slo-mo down and see the disparity between these cannon types.

All in all so far, great patch, everything seems working and I go online later toREALLY see how slow this Hurri is going to be./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 11:12 PM
Slick ,
Really appreciate your review as you seem to know the Hurri quite well. it sounds like it's going to be really nice to fly.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 11:50 PM
Nothing will compare with my beautifil airacobra( after i d/l "the thing")./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Too bad the k4 got porked..... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 11:50 PM
NP, Saburo, she is still fun to fly. So much for all the pre-patch hoopla./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 11:51 PM
Avi8or wrote:
- Engine still won't overheat

I got my engine overheated several times already, but it does take a while.

And while on the subject of engine overheat, the engine of a BF109F4 takes longer to overheat then the engine of the Hurricane, much longer even.

And the radiator control was not on auto but closed.

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Message Edited on 08/13/0312:51AM by Cappadocian_317

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 12:07 AM
I think it's probably overall more accurate than it was. But the flap position bug is still there. On all 4 Hurris, the AI controlled planes "cheat" and get thier flaps set to take off position when you can't. Your plane only has landing flaps, which is realistic by the way. Real canes only had one position for flaps, up or down. Funny thing, if you let the autopilot ( AI ) take off your plane for you, but take over before he retracts his "cheat" flap position, you can't retract them yourself!! You have to let the autopilot take over for you again and then he'll retract them for you!!!!

Hawgdog
08-13-2003, 12:16 AM
Yeah, LOL all those squadies -o- mine were taunting me about the Hurri is going to be DOA....bwa haaa haaa, its still a stone cold killer and the early one (with all those dang MG's) is a REAL menace to society if they come around an airbase.
They still are slow, and stall a little easier and dont jump off the runway at 15mph, but overall, they are still very, very serious beans to be given wide birth.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 12:59 AM
Thanks for that FYI, mortoma, I hadn't even checked the flaps. Just noticed the all or nothing flaps on the Hurri MkIIc. I guess constantly going back and forth faster between up and down, to try and maintain near combat or take-off flap position, would be a major pain.

Oh well, I usually only use flaps when landing or sometimes getting over the top of loops, so, this should be acceptable for my use, but I liked having the same flap positions as the other planes. If it didn't have them though, they shouldn't be there.

Still a great plane as Hawg said.

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 01:08 AM
ya, overheat stil messed up. You can get it, but only after very long period (historically WEP could not be used very long).

That, and you can still do 5000+ RPM without the engine dying.

But other than that, the sustained turn rate is more plausible.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:15 PM
Well, took the MKIIc online for a bit last night and today and damn, she is sloooooow now in level flight. No more just barreling in and out-turning everyone until the area is clear anymore./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

For me, the Hurri has now evolved into an energy fighter. I found I had to get a little more air under me and use more hit and run tactics with the Hispanos or the SHVAKS of the field mod. I was seeing good success by keeping the speed up and diving is much more stable and quicker to accelerate post-patch.

I saw a few LAs and 109s up high with me, but as long as you keep your speed up in the Hurri, you can still out turn them when they get close. Just leave yourself a good altitude cushion for regaining E. You're gonna need it, becasue this plane is almost anemic now when it comes to E "bleeding"./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:37 PM
The hurricane is slower definitely. What's worse - at least to my mind - is that it's much slower than a real hurricane, whether you go by the data in IL2 View Objects or anyone of a host of books...

Sad.

McN

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 10:28 PM
StG77_Fennec wrote:
- ya, overheat stil messed up. You can get it, but
- only after very long period (historically WEP could
- not be used very long).

Hurricane doesn't has WEP.

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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 10:31 PM
Just had some fun testing different planes.

I think I should eat my words from my last post, the hurri - and most other planes - can stay at the speeds given in View Objects in level flight at sea level. The only way I can get them to those speeds though is to dive a thousand or so metres. Not sure if that's realistic or not.

The max speeds at altitude seem much too low though - and yes I'm remembering to change the supercharger in planes that need it.

Any other thoughts?

McN

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 10:33 PM
And it's funny, that you reach higher topspeeds while you reduce the proppitch to ~85% (at high altitudes).

Or just deactivate WEP and use 100% proppitch (again, at high altitudes).
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Message Edited on 08/13/0311:36PM by Atzebrueck

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 10:49 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote: "Hurricane doesn't has WEP."

Do you mean in real life or in the game? In the game, the Hurri MkIIs definitely have "Forsazh" or whatever it's called, that acts like WEP.

Haven't done any top speed testing yet, mcnalu. I'm hoping to get some flying time later and do some. At level speed I noticed 400 was easy, but took a bit to get there unless you dove, as you said. It is definitely heavy on the E bleed, which I think is more realistic.

I'm finding that online, she can be flown at 2000-2500m or so, to great success. Just keep that speed up, use your superior turning and awesome armament to its maximum before total E loss and keep allot of air below for quick dives to regain E and climb, climb, climb.

She'll still outrun I-153s and can still out turn all the Yaks, LAs and 109s. Just have to get good at avoiding B and Z, because that's all most will be able to do against you and there are a few great ones around here at B and Z./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 10:57 PM
The Field Mod is still Uber. Doesn't stall at all.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:09 PM
I beat Hurri MkIIc "Ace" in QMB, 1 v 1, me in the P-39 Q1. It got on my six and I escaped with jinking and then diving. I was able to out-turn it by pulling g-s to the point of almost completely blacking-out.

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54LUT3!

"Fighter Aces don't win wars" -- el Zed

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:15 PM
Ah, just noticed that myself, Dosiere. Or at least haven't stalled it yet, either./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif The thing I'm on, is the disparity between SHVAKs and Hispanos, between the MkIIc and the Field Mod./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Hispano shells almost start dropping off at 400m and disappear at approx. 1000m. SHVAKs don't start dropping until almost 1000m and don't disappear until what looks like three times farther. Like laser beams. The Hispano had higher muzzle velocity, by about 100fps, although the Hispano projectile weighed 130g, compared to a SHVAKs 96g. Unless this weight difference is why, I have two tracks showing this with pre 1.1b for submittal. I'm going to remake them with 1.1b and grab some screens or post the tracks.

The same goes for all SHVAKs in the LAs, Laggs, Yaks...etc.



_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:25 PM
SKULLS_LZ wrote: "I beat Hurri MkIIc "Ace" in QMB......"

Although an accomplishment to down an ace AI Hurri, online, as you probably already know, is much different./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I found that I can still beat two Ace FW-A9s in QMB with the MKIIc or the MkII Field Mod, but I know that online, that pair would just stay above me, and one at a time, would take turns pecking me to death, until one could make the final swoop for a big cannon burst and KABOOM! goes Hurri./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I like to meet great P39 pilots though. She can be a treacherous lover that P39./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I've dabbled in the early one, '42 I think? The two best I've flown are Smoke_Jag and someone who I can't remember at this time and Gemini would have to get a nod, as well. I hit my head before and it rattled a few things around, so my memory's a bit foggy right now, lol.

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:50 PM
SlickStick wrote:

- Hispano shells almost start dropping off at 400m and
- disappear at approx. 1000m. SHVAKs don't start
- dropping until almost 1000m and don't disappear
- until what looks like three times farther. Like
- laser beams. The Hispano had higher muzzle
- velocity, by about 100fps, although the Hispano
- projectile weighed 130g, compared to a SHVAKs 96g.
- Unless this weight difference is why, I have two
- tracks showing this with pre 1.1b for submittal.
- I'm going to remake them with 1.1b and grab some
- screens or post the tracks.
-
- The same goes for all SHVAKs in the LAs, Laggs,
- Yaks...etc.

I would not waste you time m8. About all the Russian guns do this. It has been argued to death, and even Oleg has commented on it before in his Ready Room. Not going to change.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:59 PM
SlickStick wrote:
- Cappadocian_317 wrote: "Hurricane doesn't has WEP."
-
- Do you mean in real life or in the game? In the
- game, the Hurri MkIIs definitely have "Forsazh" or
- whatever it's called, that acts like WEP.
-
- Haven't done any top speed testing yet, mcnalu. I'm
- hoping to get some flying time later and do some.
- At level speed I noticed 400 was easy, but took a
- bit to get there unless you dove, as you said. It
- is definitely heavy on the E bleed, which I think is
- more realistic.
-
- I'm finding that online, she can be flown at
- 2000-2500m or so, to great success. Just keep that
- speed up, use your superior turning and awesome
- armament to its maximum before total E loss and keep
- allot of air below for quick dives to regain E and
- climb, climb, climb.
-
- She'll still outrun I-153s and can still out turn
- all the Yaks, LAs and 109s. Just have to get good
- at avoiding B and Z, because that's all most will be
- able to do against you and there are a few great
- ones around here at B and Z.

You get a message stating "Forsazh" when you go over 100% throttle?

If so then you have a different game then I do because all I can do is give 110% throttle and that's it.

I never said it's a useless plane or a dog, it's still a nice plane to fly against early war LW planes but that's it.
It's serious lack of speed makes it useless against well flown late model LW planes, like it should be.

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XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:01 AM
Atzebrueck wrote:
- And it's funny, that you reach higher topspeeds
- while you reduce the proppitch to ~85% (at high
- altitudes).

Isn't that normal since the blades bite more air at 85% then at 100%?

- Or just deactivate WEP and use 100% proppitch
- (again, at high altitudes).

I don't have WEP on my Hurricanes, just 110% throttle input.

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XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:14 AM
It's there for the MkIIs, not for the MkI. It doesn't come on automatically over 100%, you manually hit WEP with the W key (default) and get the "Forsazh ENABLED" message. The '38 Hurri MkI doesn't have WEP at all.

Oh well, Dosierre. I hadn't read anything over there on that besides Russian - German comparisons of armament. Not Russian to Russian, although the Hispano wasn't Russian, was used on the same side.

I guess it can't hurt to show some pictures and post some cannon statistics. I've got a little extra time on my hands these days. If for anything, just to see if what I'm seeing is accurate or just the way it is.

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 01:22 AM
SlickStick wrote:
- It's there for the MkIIs, not for the MkI. It
- doesn't come on automatically over 100%, you
- manually hit WEP with the W key (default) and get
- the "Forsazh ENABLED" message. The '38 Hurri MkI
- doesn't have WEP at all.
-
- Oh well, Dosierre. I hadn't read anything over
- there on that besides Russian - German comparisons
- of armament. Not Russian to Russian, although the
- Hispano wasn't Russian, was used on the same side.

Yes, most of it was German guns vs. Russian. I believe most of the arguments were before FB was released, so it might do some good for you to do this.

Do you have any data about the effective range of the Hispano Cannon versus its Russian counterparts. I would be interested to see it, as from what I know about muzzle velocity, weight of projectile, etc... It should be very comparable if not farther. Certainly not 1000m vs 400m as you say. But I dont know for sure, so if you do, please tell me.


- I guess it can't hurt to show some pictures and post
- some cannon statistics. I've got a little extra
- time on my hands these days. If for anything, just
- to see if what I'm seeing is accurate or just the
- way it is.

Not at all, I would be interested to see your pics myself. But just like the hundreds of posts about muzzle flash, I hate to say, it probably wont change a thing, even if the game would appear to be off.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:23 AM
Dosierre wrote: "Not at all, I would be interested to see your pics myself. But just like the hundreds of posts about muzzle flash, I hate to say, it probably wont change a thing, even if the game would appear to be off."

Where did you come up with anything about muzzle flash in what I've posted?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I've been checking around for data on the two cannons. Here's a good site to start with:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-pe.html

After reading the definitions for the columns, scroll down to the 20mm section and check out the two. I've heard we have the MkII Hispano. The main diff is that the Hispano has 110fps more power, higher Q rating, comparable M rating and its projectile is 34g heavier on average than the SHVAK. Those extra 34grams account for its enormous stopping power./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I will redo the QMBs tonight or tomorrow, showing distance to target and using the same view perspective and you can see how much difference there is. If you can host the tracks or screenshots, that would be great. Or tell me the best freespace there is to use and I'll post them. I hate my ISP and I'll be damned if I'm going to use their space, lol.

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 04:40 AM
pre-Patch the Hurri had an overmoddeled : ....

1) turn time
2) climb speed
3) dive speed
4) engine damadge model

but its stalling was NOT over moddeled

its turns now are slower ( time wise ) but it stalls more
its guns are even better
its climb is slightly not as good now

it was a light , low powered A/C & its dive speed was not that great IRL

the Brewster is a match for the Hurricane now

BTW hurri v Hurri wa my FAV DF in v1.0 & i have a LOT of flight time in it ( A LOT )

pray to the moddeler Gods that the Spitfire will be UBER as it darn well deserves to be

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 06:21 AM
Spitfire....oooh, just hearing that name gives me the shivers. Say it again. Spitfire. Yeah, that's the stuff.

The MkIX was a nimble little beauty with some hard-hitting armament. Some had 4 - .303s and 2 Hispanos, some had 2 .50s and 2 Hispanos that did a nice amount of damage and she wasn't too shabby in the speed department either with a 650km/h maximum.

Some even had 4 Hispanos...wow, that would be awesome in FB a Spitfire MkIX with 4 - 20mm Hispanos? And I'm pretty sure the MkXIV is coming as well./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

With a climb of 4,580ft/min and top speed of 721km/h, that could be in the running for "Uber plane of FB" with four Hispanos or 2 .50s and 2 Hispanos PLUS, 1,000 pounds of bombs...hehehehehehhehahahahaHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHA... .ha....

Oops, sorry got carried away./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 06:53 AM
THanks for the link Slick.

Well, it certainly looks like the two weapons were very close in what they could do. The increased weight of the Hispano rounds should be more or less compensated by the higher muzzle velocity. 1000m -400m just doesn't seem right.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 08:20 AM
Did a little further testing and got better numbers than previous. I want to do the tracks a little better and online, too. I'll just get somebody to fly at me and shoot perfectly level with me. That would be the best track.

I notice the Hispanos disappear closer to 800m and start drop-off a bit b4 that. Tha Yak's cannon goes at least 1km and almost in a perfect line until the very end. It's machine gun travels like a laser beam in a perfect line for almost three times the cannon and travels quite far.

Effective range at this point is another issue, but I know I've been dinged at some pretty long distances from Yaks. A few of those and leaks start to pop up and wings fall off, hehe.

Now, these things may be the way it was in RL, I'm not disputing, just asking at this point because it looks strange to see one plane's shells disappear, while another's are still travelling, from similar cannons.

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:30 PM
ohhh ohhh ohhh SlickStick stop it ...

i cant stand too much Spitfire dreaming either .... your post got me all worked up how cool FB could be .....

when the Spitfire comes out i will be looking for a Spitfire wingman ( a dedicated one ) as i will be hunting BF-109s EXCLUSIVLY for 2 weeks AT LEAST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW didnt realise they were fitted with 4 Hispanos.....always thought the Hispanos were mated to 2 .50 cals

ive said it B4 & ill say it again ... " it better be UBER as it darn well deserves to be"

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:43 PM
hi,
I had yesterday evening a hurricane from 1938.
You only have a landing flap, no combat or take off.

Is that correct?

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 01:08 PM
hornetsting wrote:
- hi,
- I had yesterday evening a hurricane from 1938.
- You only have a landing flap, no combat or take off.
-
- Is that correct?
-
-

Yep. The Hurri only had 'up' or 'down' flaps.

The 4 hispanos were not fitted to the Mk IX Spitty's I don't even think that they were fitted to any Merlin engined Spits, only Griffon engined ones (but I stand to be corrected).

Bring us a Tempest! (Hawker/Sidney Camm RULE!)

NewS.

Founder member (currently the only member!) of the Unofficial Hurricane Fan Club.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 01:36 PM
! thing I've also noticed about the Hurricane Mk 1a, it has a much reduced roll rate aswell.No more low level, grass cutting victory rolls from me anymore. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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fluke39
08-14-2003, 01:59 PM
Newshielder wrote:

-
- The 4 hispanos were not fitted to the Mk IX Spitty's
- I don't even think that they were fitted to any
- Merlin engined Spits, only Griffon engined ones (but
- I stand to be corrected).
-
- Bring us a Tempest! (Hawker/Sidney Camm RULE!)
-

Are you Standing ?? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

no- well you are technically correct actually - the upsetting thing (for me too/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif ) is that the 4 cannon spitties were post-war - so it don't look like we'll be getting any of them /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif (and the 1,000 bomb load) -
sorry - i wish it were otherwise - but AFAIK it ain't /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

but we can all gain solice in the fact the tempest is well on it's way /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif yay !!

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XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:41 PM
not sure but didn't they put 4 hispanos on Spits and call that the "E" wing.

A wing was all mg,B wing was 2 x Hispano + 4 x .303,C wing was 2 x Hispano + 2 x .50

might be wrong tho,I can't remember

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XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 06:33 PM
Yes, the MkIX was available in all three wing variants. Numbers for each is another story, not sure of each wing's use. I believe most had the 4 -.303s and the two Hispanos. Two .50s and two Hispanos will be nice too, hopefully we get at least both of those. Especially that LF model with the clipped wings. Finally a Spit with a decent roll rate!!!!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I thought the XIV's were the V1 destroyers with a very high sucess rate, some 300 shot down in 1944?? I would expect that it would have the ability to carry the 1,000LBS of bombs it was designed for right away, no? I believe they entered service in late '43 or early '44 and over 1,000 MkXIVs were produced.

Gimme, gimme, gimme!!!!!!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Spitfires are exactly what this game needs to create the zen balance between the Russian planes and the German planes. She don't care, she'll just shoot them all down.....hehehehehahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....h a.......ha....ahem/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Excuse me, got carried away again.

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 12:44 AM
I hope spitfires are in the free add on, if only becuase we will probably be getting that before the pay for one. Cant wait, such an awesome plane.

I have one question for you Spitfire fans out there(SlickStick/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ), how was its durability? Did it take a punishment before going down ow is it more like the 109? A few shots and your engine is gone. ?

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 01:14 AM
She did have cloth covered control surfaces and wasn't a real good damage taker. That's why she had to be nimble and fast, to stay out of the way of those FW cannons./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I couldn't see her being a strong ground attack bird or anything. Maybe some higher altitude bombing and then play escort or dogfight in FB.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 01:46 AM
The Spit was an all round better survivor of attack than the Hurricane, contrary to popular myth.

The myth goes : The Spitfire was fast and nimble, but couldn't take damage, the Hurri was robust and absorbed a lot of punishment and because it was largely cloth covered and bullets passed straight through.

This is wrong.

If a pilot was attacked;

(1) The Spitfire's better performance made survival more likely.

(2) in the BoB the MG FF cannons in use by the Germans were low velocity weapons, and the shells often exploded upon impact upon the metal Spifire skin without passing through. This peppered the skin full of holes, but left vital internal systems and structure intact. The Hurri's canvas skin allowed Shells and bullets to pass straight through..only to impact and explode inside against vital parts, and the pilot! Many Spits suffered multiple cannon hits, serious damage, and still brought their pilots home

(3) The Hurricane had a fuselage tank that was not self sealing. They thought it was adequately protected, stuck as it was between the engine, and the bulkhead. It also had fuel tanks in the wing roots. These were all vulnerable to gunfire, and the Hurri was more likely to catch fire than the Spitfire as a result. Linatex covered fuel tanks were fitted as a matter of priority once they realised this.

For the reasons above, in the BoB a pilot was statisticaly twice as likely to survive combat in a Spitfire than in a Hurricane. Quite a difference!

"If I had all the money I've spent on drink....I'd spend it on drink!"

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 01:56 AM
All cloth control surfaces were on the Mk1 and 2 only. Not long after earnest combat had started, the problem of aileron control stiffening up at high speed, to the detriment of roll rate, was investigated at the instigation of Geoffrey Quill, chief Supermarine test pilot. After trying various remedies, they found that metal skinning the ailerons made a huge improvement. So much so that there was a large queue of squadron leaders and wing commanders at Supermarine in Southampton waiting to have their personal planes retro-fitted, as soon as word leaked out.

The 109 suffered the same problems due to fabric control surfaces and if anything was even worse in high speed control stiffness. This was also compounded by the restricted lateral stick movement possible in the tight cockpit.

"If I had all the money I've spent on drink....I'd spend it on drink!"

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 02:27 AM
Good info, Gibbs. Thanks.

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çk?¯kT 2003**