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View Full Version : Man, I really wish I could get my money back.



jimkizer
08-20-2013, 02:11 AM
I was so looking forward to this game. I have been hoping for an RPG return to this universe for ever, it seems.

Got it today, and found out that the grid design is absolutely destructive of any minimal level of immersion. Being able to only move at 90 degree angles in this day and age is ludicrous. They did it then due to the inherent limitations of the computers of the time. Not as a pinnacle of design, but as a foundation stone upon which much better interfaces grew. It was fine then. Actually, it was awesome FOR THE TIME. But then MM6 came, and other freedom of movement RPGs, and that was it. There is nothing that says turn based combat requires that you forget how to walk.

Somehow, I thought the plan was to recreate the golden days of the franchise. Not the childhood.

Don't get me wrong, there are some good things about the game, no doubt. But this is 2013. After 3 1/2 hours of game play, I am done. Sorry, but nostalgia can only carry ya so far.

Just gonna make a small, and incredibly obvious prediction here. This game will sell a minimal number of boxes, and fade to obscurity since its grid based gameplay style is only of interest to a nostalgia driven few. Since sales will be so mediocre, they'll never get get funding to do a decent RPG game in the universe. Sadly taking an awesome franchise down with it.

Why couldn't ya'll just re-do MM6s style? At least then you wouldn't be limiting your audience quite so drastically.

Sigh.I am so depressed right now.

Gwyndion
08-20-2013, 03:07 AM
I think you might be surprised. Just because something doesn't sit right with you, that doesn't mean everybody feels the same way as yourself.

Have you ever heard of a little game called Legend of Grimrock?! It's a small indie dungeon crawler which went on to sell a ton of copies (600,000 at the beginning of this year, probably a lot more by now). That game was a dungeon crawler with grid-based movement as well... and it didn't even have outdoor environments, or towns, or shops etc...

So, if it's not for you. It's not for you. But guess what... the rest of the world is NOT you.

Melnorme1984
08-20-2013, 03:20 AM
I think you might be surprised. Just because something doesn't sit right with you, that doesn't mean everybody feels the same way as yourself.

Have you ever heard of a little game called Legend of Grimrock?! It's a small indie dungeon crawler which went on to sell a ton of copies (600,000 at the beginning of this year, probably a lot more by now). That game was a dungeon crawler with grid-based movement as well... and it didn't even have outdoor environments, or towns, or shops etc...

So, if it's not for you. It's not for you. But guess what... the rest of the world is NOT you.

To be fair, Grimrock was much cheaper than MMX and was also in a Humble Bundle.

On the flip side, since MMX is more expensive, it doesn't need to sell as many copies to earn back the same amount of money.

Gwyndion
08-20-2013, 04:55 AM
I think it balances out. Grimrock was cheaper but maybe sold more copies (as you said) but it was also a fairly simple and straightforward game. It was also great! This game has more depth and heritage... but also costs more. I think if they deliver on everything they are promising on and polish things up nicely (before Grimrock 2 comes around - which also has outdoor environments and more depth) I think they will do ok. The average age of gamers now is in the mid 30's, or at least I read that somewhere. I think there is a pretty healthy market for people who want this type of game.

LeadStarDude.
08-20-2013, 05:18 AM
I don't mind grid based turning in a game like this, but they need to add a free movement option in the settings.

Shakra
08-20-2013, 05:33 AM
If to be clear, devs must be shamed on there creation... When small dev team could make game with grid based gameplay, such a big company with ubi's support and resourses must create normal game, without those limitations. I'm not against grid based tbs rpgs but, its kinnda lame to see it from a 3A dev team and production company.

LeadStarDude.
08-20-2013, 05:42 AM
No... We need grid based turning with optional free movement & optional turn based game play. As is this game sucks! It looks good & has depth, but is awful to play.

xfysxbowtie
08-20-2013, 06:40 AM
Y'all are forgetting that this game is being designed under the restrictions of the first games on purpose; it's a flash-back game to a genre that needs new life. It can only get better from here.

Ganson316
08-20-2013, 07:00 AM
I was very slightly disappointed at first to learn that this game will be using grid based gameplay. After all, Might and Magic 7 was my personal favorite entry in the franchise. However, I can also see how limiting movement to a grid based structure can add depth to the game. D&D 4th ed. relies on the grid to emphasize positional gameplay. For example, you may have noticed how quickly your party was surrounded in certain situations. With a few tweaks, such as the ability to flee into open spaces during combat perhaps, I could see this becoming a smart design choice. It also probably makes it easier for the Devs to add in more content, though I couldn't say that for certain.

I still play several games that are grid based dungeon crawlers in this vein. There is still a sizable market for this sort of game. The real question will be, will Might and Magic have the kind of depth in its combat that these titles offer. Might and Magic was very fun in its day, but the series will need to evolve significantly to keep pace with other entries in this genre.

Gerugon
08-20-2013, 08:01 AM
Sorry, but nostalgia can only carry ya so far.

Sounds to me like your not realy interested in nostalgia but rather are one of the younger Players that simply donot have the patience for a game that tries to get back to the roots of gaming history.

rawrsprut
08-20-2013, 08:03 AM
Grid based killed it for me. I need to learn to research more instead of just getting super excited and buying it. I loved the series when it had free movement so this just sucked. To bad I can't refund it..

melv1t
08-20-2013, 08:43 AM
I wonder if they ever made a vote for a best part. To understand wich one to resurrect. I think they only saw the legend's sales and started to rub their sweaty palms giggling. Commertail success often works for the pioneers.


Sounds to me like your not realy interested in nostalgia but rather are one of the younger Players that simply donot have the patience for a game that tries to get back to the roots of gaming history.

Go back to roots. Take a stick and hit a ground. It was a necessity to use TB system in early 90s, not a developer's wish. Now it looks like ubi tries to milk fans with another low budget odd job. I respect people who made this game. Really. And i understand that their wishes are nothing in comparison with the will of thier greedy bosses. Thanks for trying.

Heroes 5, Heroes 6.. another FUUUUUUUUUU!!! is MMX.

Pankratz1980
08-20-2013, 08:47 AM
@OP

It might be a shocker to you, but the grid-based movement is not a "limitation" or an ancient relic. It's A FEATURE. A CONSCIOUS DESIGN DECISION. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NOSTALGIA. It provides a completely different kind of gameplay experience which cannot be replicated in a free-form environment. It's like buying Rayman Origins and complaining it doesn't play like Gears of War ("2D is outdated, nostalgia, rose-tinted glasses, over-the-shoulder-3D-view is the way to go! Give me my money back!"). It's laughable. Seriously.

Stop being so close-minded.

KHo.NaN
08-20-2013, 09:18 AM
does people purchase without checking what do they buy those days?
come on, we all saw the videos and previews and we all know its is grid based. Its same turn stile, same as Heroes of MM has turnbase, and grid for battle, it is his trademark and his feature.
Actually the old MM saga died because once they lost the grid base movement, they couldn't compete with others RPG such as elder scrolls.
the grid is part of the game, and part of the fun, like in Grimrock.
People please, check before you purchase anything, what a bunch of cry babies

marianP2013
08-20-2013, 09:20 AM
I was so looking forward to this game. I have been hoping for an RPG return to this universe for ever, it seems.

Got it today, and found out that the grid design is absolutely destructive of any minimal level of immersion. Being able to only move at 90 degree angles in this day and age is ludicrous. They did it then due to the inherent limitations of the computers of the time. Not as a pinnacle of design, but as a foundation stone upon which much better interfaces grew. It was fine then. Actually, it was awesome FOR THE TIME. But then MM6 came, and other freedom of movement RPGs, and that was it. There is nothing that says turn based combat requires that you forget how to walk.

Somehow, I thought the plan was to recreate the golden days of the franchise. Not the childhood.

Don't get me wrong, there are some good things about the game, no doubt. But this is 2013. After 3 1/2 hours of game play, I am done. Sorry, but nostalgia can only carry ya so far.

Just gonna make a small, and incredibly obvious prediction here. This game will sell a minimal number of boxes, and fade to obscurity since its grid based gameplay style is only of interest to a nostalgia driven few. Since sales will be so mediocre, they'll never get get funding to do a decent RPG game in the universe. Sadly taking an awesome franchise down with it.

Why couldn't ya'll just re-do MM6s style? At least then you wouldn't be limiting your audience quite so drastically.

Sigh.I am so depressed right now.
you have true man :cool: better is play MM6 and 7, not this movemets Grim rock copy.....

melv1t
08-20-2013, 09:22 AM
@OP

It might be a shocker to you, but the grid-based movement is not a "limitation" or an ancient relic. It's A FEATURE. A CONSCIOUS DESIGN DECISION. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NOSTALGIA. It provides a completely different kind of gameplay experience which cannot be replicated in a free-form environment. It's like buying Rayman Origins and complaining it doesn't play like Gears of War ("2D is outdated, nostalgia, rose-tinted glasses, over-the-shoulder-3D-view is the way to go! Give me my money back!"). It's laughable. Seriously.

Stop being so close-minded.

IMHO close minded = shooting only in straight direction; making a 3d shell for a card game; ignoring demands of a majority.

WarBaby2
08-20-2013, 09:30 AM
Ahm... sorry, but you do realize that the game was advertised to be a grid based dungeon crawler from the beginning, do you? Who can be blamed because you didn't inform yourself properly before buying?

Beastman666m
08-20-2013, 09:32 AM
I'm sick of grid-based discussions of the game. I like grids. And if you do not like it, then why do you have bought the game in the first place? It was clearly stated EVERYwhere that M&M X uses grid based movement.

samsenggwy
08-20-2013, 09:40 AM
As true as KhoNan describe. Popularity of MM saga "rise" from grid based movements.

Regarding to the movements, I think it is just a minor part of great RPG. Why should RPG fans complain just because of the movement type?
I almost orgasm by the Monster, Equipment, Dungeon, Trap, Classes and Skills.

Grid based or Free movement? Screw it I don't care.

LeadStarDude.
08-20-2013, 09:42 AM
I wish at the very least they would add the option to turn the turn based movement on & off in the setting to make exploration more enjoyable. What would be even better is adding a hot key for that option.

WarBaby2
08-20-2013, 09:54 AM
I wish at the very least they would add the option to turn the turn based movement on & off in the setting to make exploration more enjoyable. What would be even better is adding a hot key for that option.

Turn based is not the same as grid based - I totally agree there.

Aeon1977
08-20-2013, 09:56 AM
Haters gonna hate, whiners gonna whine... I really despise people more and more who buy a game (early access or not) without informing themselves in advance about features and style, and then start crying like little babies or bashing around. Lack of intellect becomes more and more a global disease. But wait, without such people like MarianP2013 or the threadstarter, the infamous CODEX had less to laugh at ;-)

Aeon1977
08-20-2013, 09:59 AM
Turn based is not the same as grid based - I totally agree there.

Combat = Turn based; Movement = Grid based. Like in MM III - V. This was clear from the first revelation of the game. Enough time for people to choose if they will like that or not.

LeadStarDude.
08-20-2013, 10:01 AM
Haters gonna hate, whiners gonna whine... I really despise people more and more who buy a game (early access or not) without informing themselves in advance about features and style, and then start crying like little babies or bashing around. Lack of intellect becomes more and more a global disease. But wait, without such people like MarianP2013 or the threadstarter, the infamous CODEX had less to laugh at ;-)

I have not bought it yet because of the turn based movement issue. I am hoping that by talking about it they will add an ON & OFF switch for that issue. If this issue is addressed I will buy the game. If not then NO. That is the only reason I am here. I am a true M&M franchise fan, but going back to the style of M&M I played as a teenager is something I am not happy with. :(

KHo.NaN
08-20-2013, 10:06 AM
I have not bought it yet because of the turn based movement issue. I am hoping that by talking about it they will add an ON & OFF switch for that issue. If this issue is addressed I will buy the game. If not then NO. That is the only reason I am here. I am a true M&M franchise fan, but going back to the style of M&M I played as a teenager is something I am not happy with. :(
the game was created with grid in mind, it cant be turned off, its impposible, is it possible in Gears of wars to ride a kart and throw shells and bananas? no, because thats a different game and thats called mario Kart.
So if you like free movement, go play Skyrim
If you like grid base RPG, play grimrock, MMX or grimrock2.

For what is worth , we, the lovers of grid base RPGs, dont have much choices nowadays, but the lovers of free movement of RPG you guys have PLENTY of RPGs games available, go play those, thanks.

samsenggwy
08-20-2013, 10:19 AM
+1 to KhoNaN again.
Especially the last paragraph, I can feel that Grid Based fans are shedding their tears when reading this.

Rickey, not meant to gang up on you, but I, fans of whatever movement RPG. Will support this classic RPG games (Regardless of movement type).

WarBaby2
08-20-2013, 10:19 AM
For what is worth , we, the lovers of grid base RPGs, dont have much choices nowadays, but the lovers of free movement of RPG you guys have PLENTY of RPGs games available, go play those, thanks.

Amen to that.

eobet
08-20-2013, 10:21 AM
you have true man :cool: better is play MM6 and 7, not this movemets Grim rock copy.....

Did you play MM1-5? My guess is no. Do you know what Grimrock tries to copy? My guess is no as well (it's Dungeon Master from FTL).

OsirisDawn
08-20-2013, 02:45 PM
I like the grid based movement, but the transition between, aka the movement could be a lot smoother.

rodrigj
08-20-2013, 02:58 PM
IMHO close minded = shooting only in straight direction; making a 3d shell for a card game; ignoring demands of a majority.

Close-minded = people thinking they are the majority...

Don't want to play grid-based? Don't buy it : personnaly, I will buy it only if it grid based like the great MM3 to 5 games...

That's now 20 years I"m waiting for another great grid based rpg : seems the X is going in the right direction : FOR ME!

JPR out!

rodrigj
08-20-2013, 03:02 PM
For what is worth , we, the lovers of grid base RPGs, dont have much choices nowadays, but the lovers of free movement of RPG you guys have PLENTY of RPGs games available, go play those, thanks.

Can't say better myself!

Ubi hear you man!

JPR out!