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LoyalACFan
08-15-2013, 02:25 AM
Yeah, I know I'm extremely late to the party :nonchalance:

At this point, it's a pretty fair guess that, as many fans have speculated, the young man on the bench was a Templar. He had the insignia on his wrist, after all, and that knowing nod near the end certainly suggested that he was more than just some random guy. But unlike others, I severely doubt that Ezio was assassinated. He was already shown to be dying, and not even video game poison works as fast as it would have had to in Embers. Rather, upon much reflection, I think the Templar was actually showing his respect.

We know the Borgias put the Templar Order in a stranglehold to fulfill Rodrigo's own ambition. It wasn't until Ezio weeded them all out that the Templars were able to refocus their pursuits onto their initially noble cause. Meaning that Ezio was actually responsible for the revival of the true Templar Order, so that's something to think about. Since later Templars were quick to demonize the Borgia family as a black stain on their order's history, it seems likely that they would actually be somewhat reverent of Ezio. Haytham, at least, seemed to admire the Assassins when they were still focused on peace rather than freedom as Ezio and Altair were. Is it a stretch to think that the young man was assuring Ezio (who had, earlier in Embers, expressed a belief that someone could come for him and his family at any moment) that the Templars were not pursuing him, allowing him to die in peace knowing his family was in no danger?

The ramblings of an Embers fanboy, I know, but it's such a great scene ._.

Assassin_M
08-15-2013, 02:30 AM
It actually makes a lot of sense :O

Assassin_M
08-15-2013, 02:38 AM
It also provides more novelty to the Templar -Assassin conflict that AC II and ACB screwed royally. Makes it a lot more meaningful. That final drink with Lee, Haytham's respect for some of the Assassins' former main goals.

ze_topazio
08-15-2013, 02:44 AM
That reminds me of Blade II when the Vampire leaders thank Blade for getting rid of Frost back in the first movie, sort of.

AC2_alex
08-15-2013, 02:48 AM
Can someone pm me or just put spoilers and tell me how Ezio dies. I've only played the games :/

Sigv4rd
08-15-2013, 02:50 AM
It actually makes a lot of sense :O

See you do have a reason to like Ezio, because of him the Templar order isn't stupid anymore! :)

Assassin_M
08-15-2013, 02:53 AM
See you do have a reason to like Ezio, because of him the Templar order isn't stupid anymore! :)
I have lots of reasons to like Ezio. I only disliked him in AC II.

AC2_alex
08-15-2013, 03:01 AM
I have lots of reasons to like Ezio. I only disliked him in AC II.

I don't think his womanizing antics were as outrageous as you've made them out to be. In the year or so right after his father's execution, Ezio seemed pretty stern with Paola to me. He wasn't womanizing girls left and right literally right after his family's death, as you say.

ze_topazio
08-15-2013, 03:19 AM
People always exaggerate Ezio's playboy antics, both the people that dislike and like him, like its his only characteristic or something.



Can someone pm me or just put spoilers and tell me how Ezio dies. I've only played the games :/

SPOILERS (of a story that came out 2 years ago) AHEAD

Ezio is in Florence seated on a bench watching his family shopping, he's not feeling particularly healthy, a young man seats next to him and he's like "Florentine Women suck" and Ezio is like "You're the one that suck", Ezio starts feeling even worse, the young man puts his hand on Ezio's hand and says "Courage old man", the young man then gets up and leaves, for a frame or two we can see what seems like a red cross on the guy's clothes, Ezio looks at his family, smiles and dies, probably from an heart attack.

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 03:20 AM
I dunno, I think that Connor will fight for peace later on as well, as he revives the Assassin order in the colonies.

But I agree with what you say here.

Alex, I like your sig, but it's missing Thief, :P

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 03:22 AM
People always exaggerate Ezio's playboy antics, both the people that dislike and like him, like its his only characteristic or something.

Ezio actually had only a couple of sexual encounters that we see in the game. Christina, random girl after race, Caterina.. he may have been with a couple of Courtesans and Rosa as well.

AC2_alex
08-15-2013, 03:23 AM
Alex, I like your sig, but it's missing Thief, :P

haha, just the games I'm most excited about. :)

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 03:28 AM
haha, just the games I'm most excited about. :)

I'm actually slightly worried about Thief. Apparently they've had directional and vision changes a lot, and that worries me. Before I heard about that I was positive that it was going to be great since it's by the same team that did Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

But yea, the ones you have listed are pretty much the only games I plan on buying in the close future.

Shade_MG
08-15-2013, 03:30 AM
I hated how in the Ezio trilogy it was essentially black and white. The Assassins were seen as the good guys and the Templars were the bad guys. AC3 fixed this and I actually found myself agreeing with the Templars a lot more then the Assassins.

Assassin_M
08-15-2013, 03:36 AM
It wasn't necessarily his womanizing antiques. (even though stroking breasts right after killing a man looked stupid as hell), this is literally his face 5 minutes after half his family was killed
http://gyazo.com/232487b827bc358fe0c2c7480f678e30.png
I didn't want him to be an Emo forever, but I wanted to feel his anger for longer than a few seconds, his bitterness, his distrust of strangers..SOMETHING or ANYTHING. I didn't see that, to be honest. He seemed to trust EVERYONE he came into contact with, he was never bitter for more than 3 seconds in a scene or 2....he was relaxed and collected...that`s fine 10 years later, but not when he`s 17 dammit.

I liked Ezio so much more in Brotherhood. that`s how he should`v been in the second half of AC II. That`s the Ezio that appeared for just 10 minutes in the final mission in AC II. Distant, distrustful, stern, wise, quite..etc. that`s the logical transformation of Ezio to me. the change I wanted to see in AC II. unfortunately that never happened and y the time I came to like Ezio, he was milked to death...

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 03:44 AM
I don't think his womanizing antics were as outrageous as you've made them out to be. In the year or so right after his father's execution, Ezio seemed pretty stern with Paola to me. He wasn't womanizing girls left and right literally right after his family's death, as you say.

Yes he was! He was just "stern" with Paola because he wanted revenge and his family had died like an hour ago.

I saw him eying those courtesans during his training missions and cutscenes...

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 03:46 AM
Ezio actually had only a couple of sexual encounters that we see in the game. Christina, random girl after race, Caterina.. he may have been with a couple of Courtesans and Rosa as well.

In Venice, he had sex with like 4 of teodora's *****s after completing an assassination.

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 03:46 AM
if girls were giggling at me and calling me handsome and cute I would look at them as well.

It's not confirmed if he actually took up their services >.>

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 03:50 AM
if girls were giggling at me and calling me handsome and cute I would look at them as well.

It's not confirmed if he actually took up their services >.>

Oh please :/ it's pretty safe to say he did, at least with Theodora's courtesans

If I was a guy whose family was JUST killed in front of the whole city, I would not put up with any of those *****s' ********. I don't think you would either

AC2_alex
08-15-2013, 03:53 AM
Oh please :/ it's pretty safe to say he did, at least with Theodora's courtesans

If I was a guy whose family was JUST killed in front of the whole city, I would not put up with any of those *****s' ********. I don't think you would either

Too bad that happened like 6 years after his family's death. Otherwise you'd have a valid argument.

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:03 AM
Too bad that happened like 6 years after his family's death. Otherwise you'd have a valid argument.

I'm not just talking about Theodora.

Literally hours after his family was killed, he was in the brothel, training with the courtesans. I quote some things he said to them while practicing blending:

"May I....join you?....." "Hello there....." You know, stuff like that. After they left, saying he was cute, he long fully looked after them, smiling.

Valid enough?

PS, your sarcasm isn't really helping. This is a calm discussion

ze_topazio
08-15-2013, 04:06 AM
No matter how bad the situation is, a cute girl appears, we men just can't avoid looking, it's in our nature.

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 04:06 AM
I'm pretty sure that was actually a couple days after his family was killed.

I can check the novel if you would like..

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:07 AM
No matter how bad the situation is, a cute girl appears, we men just can't avoid looking, it's in our nature.

Really? I'm not sure you would in real life if your father and brothers just died.

If you really think you would...then....just wow

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:08 AM
i'm pretty sure that was actually a couple days after his family was killed.

I can check the novel if you would like..

....still?


P.s I wouldn't really trust the novel for fine details. All of the, have at least several non canon things or details that differ from the game.

ze_topazio
08-15-2013, 04:11 AM
Really? I'm not sure you would in real life if your father and brothers just died.

If you really think you would...then....just wow

We humans are animals too, certain instincts can be stronger than reason sometimes.

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 04:13 AM
Yes, after his father and brothers were killed, Ezio went to Christina's place to get items that he left there the night before (he spent the night before the hanging at Christina's house. Uberto offered him a place to stay at his house, but Ezio wisely refused), and after that he found the bodies of his father and brothers and sent them off in burning boats down the river.

AC2_alex
08-15-2013, 04:13 AM
This is a load of bull.

LoyalACFan
08-15-2013, 04:15 AM
This is a load of bull.

My original post, or the subsequent "Ezio should've been sadder" argument?

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 04:16 AM
I played a gameboy game during my mother's funeral.

I can't fault Ezio for being attracted by women the day after his family's execution.

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 04:17 AM
....still?


P.s I wouldn't really trust the novel for fine details. All of the, have at least several non canon things or details that differ from the game.

The details in the novel are canon unless details in the game contradict them. So I fully trust the novel on this.

AC2_alex
08-15-2013, 04:21 AM
My original post, or the subsequent "Ezio should've been sadder" argument?

The latter. You're good.


I played a gameboy game during my mother's funeral.

I can't fault Ezio for being attracted by women the day after his family's execution.

Exactly. And by the way, none of that "may I join you" stuff was scripted. That's in game. He says that stuff around courtesans when you hire them.

ze_topazio
08-15-2013, 04:22 AM
And Ezio had already calm down by then.

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:22 AM
The latter. You're good.



Exactly. And by the way, none of that "may I join you" stuff was scripted. That's in game. He says that stuff around courtesans when you hire them.

Nope. These ones were different

Edit- sorry just my opinion. It's probably because I'm a girl

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:23 AM
I played a gameboy game during my mother's funeral.

I can't fault Ezio for being attracted by women the day after his family's execution.

Are you serious?

When my father died I wasn't playing a....videogame...at his funeral

AC2_alex
08-15-2013, 04:26 AM
Ezio let out the vast majority of his pent-up anger on Roberto. Followed by a sobering time for him where he was just serious. No womanizing.

I don't get it. Connor's endearing for his imperfections and Ezio's not? He was young.

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:26 AM
This is a load of bull.

No мой друг, it's just other people's opinions. Respect them

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:29 AM
Ezio let out the vast majority of his pent-up anger on Roberto. Followed by a sobering time for him where he was just serious. No womanizing.

I don't get it. Connor's endearing for his imperfections and Ezio's not? He was young.

I just think that if your family died and you know it was a conspiracy, you would not be all carefree like ezio was. I just think he was extremely immature in AC2. I liked him in revelations though.

I felt Connor was much more mature. When his mother died, he understood that it was because of the Templars, and became focused from that day on to end them.

I felt Connor was more mature at 5 than ezio was at 17. Whoops

AC2_alex
08-15-2013, 04:29 AM
No мой друг, it's just other people's opinions. Respect them

I don't know Russian.

All I want is consistency. (see here) --> "I don't get it. Connor's endearing for his imperfections and Ezio's not?"

AC2_alex
08-15-2013, 04:32 AM
I just think that if your family died and you know it was a conspiracy, you would not be all carefree like ezio was.

He wasn't carefree!!! That's not true! He didn't become relaxed again until years later. Pay attention to the dates in the game. An hour in-game time could be 2 years in the actual timeline of the game.

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 04:33 AM
Are you serious?

When my father died I wasn't playing a....videogame...at his funeral
I was 11 years old, I never really knew my "true" mother, as she was mentally ill for most of my life. Doesn't help that I treated her like crap most of the time.

I'll have you know that I feel incredibly guilty for that. But that doesn't make me a "bad" person.

I get over deaths of those close to me surprisingly fast as well, I think it has something to do with me seeing death as unavoidable.

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 04:34 AM
He wasn't carefree!!! That's not true! He didn't become relaxed again until years later. Pay attention to the dates in the game. An hour in-game time could be 2 years in the actual timeline of the game.

Better yet, read the books.

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:36 AM
He wasn't carefree!!! That's not true! He didn't become relaxed again until years later..

http://i.imgur.com/seh6p.gif

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:37 AM
I was 11 years old, I never really knew my "true" mother, as she was mentally ill for most of my life. Doesn't help that I treated her like crap most of the time.

I'll have you know that I feel incredibly guilty for that. But that doesn't make me a "bad" person.

I get over deaths of those close to me surprisingly fast as well, I think it has something to do with me seeing death as unavoidable.

Maybe we are getting a little off topic

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 04:37 AM
oh god. why does everyone have to use gifs. they're terrible.

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:38 AM
I don't know Russian.

All I want is consistency. (see here) --> "I don't get it. Connor's endearing for his imperfections and Ezio's not?"

I called you my friend

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 04:38 AM
Maybe we are getting a little off topic
then you shouldn't have responded.

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:39 AM
then you shouldn't have responded.

Okay then

AC2_alex
08-15-2013, 04:44 AM
http://i.imgur.com/seh6p.gif

Hey I don't mind being condescended if I'm being condescended by Jennifer Lawrence! XD


I called you my friend

That's nice. :)

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 04:49 AM
Hey I don't mind being condescended if I'm being condescended by Jennifer Lawrence! XD



That's nice. :)

You men...

I should have chosen a different gif


So we're good?

Megas_Doux
08-15-2013, 04:53 AM
Good theory!

However I dont think that guy at the end was a templar, I see him more of an analogy to Ezio´s younger years.

AC2_alex
08-15-2013, 04:56 AM
So we're good?

No.


You men...

I resent this.



jk

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 05:01 AM
No.

:(

Assassin_M
08-15-2013, 05:01 AM
Good theory!

However I dont think that guy at the end was a templar, I see him more of an analogy to Ezio´s younger years.
Ezio didn't hate Florence, though and didn't seem like an inconsiderate Dbag

Megas_Doux
08-15-2013, 05:05 AM
Ezio didn't hate Florence, though and didn't seem like an inconsiderate Dbag

You ve got a point!

The thing is, I just do not know what to think about this matter anymore XD.

Assassin_M
08-15-2013, 05:13 AM
You ve got a point!

The thing is, I just do not know what to think about this matter anymore XD.
I might as well go with this theory if i`m honest. makes WAY more sense than the repetitive "oh ma godz Templar poisoned Ezio"

I like the fact that Templars can empathize and respect adversaries. I like the fact that they CAN spare someone who is THEIR enemy out of respect and reverence, I like the fact that the Templars are not evil, mustache stroking scumbags and I definitely I like the fact that Templars are not Cesare and Rodrigo..

Jexx21
08-15-2013, 05:22 AM
Darby wrote Embers right?

LoyalACFan
08-15-2013, 05:25 AM
Darby wrote Embers right?

Yes, which is why I'm so glad he's on board for AC4

Assassin_M
08-15-2013, 05:25 AM
Darby wrote Embers right?
yeah he also wrote the most ambiguous AC in the Ezio trilogy

Megas_Doux
08-15-2013, 05:26 AM
I I like the fact that the Templars are not evil, mustache stroking scumbags and I definitely I like the fact that Templars are not Cesare and Rodrigo..

Like this one?

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/8/89/Baron_de_Valois_v.png

LoyalACFan
08-15-2013, 05:27 AM
Like this one?

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/8/89/Baron_de_Valois_v.png

Sadly, that guy was actually the best villain in ACB.

Assassin_M
08-15-2013, 05:29 AM
Like this one?

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/8/89/Baron_de_Valois_v.png
Yes like this one....HICKEY...see Hickey?? was more of a Templar than he was...at least he acknowledged "Templars" and worked with and for them...the Baron was going to betray Cesare and take Rome for himself and Cesare expected this and was probably going to have him killed later....some "order" this is -_-

Wolfmeister1010
08-15-2013, 05:47 AM
Yes like this one....HICKEY...see Hickey?? was more of a Templar than he was...at least he acknowledged "Templars" and worked with and for them...the Baron was going to betray Cesare and take Rome for himself and Cesare expected this and was probably going to have him killed later....some "order" this is -_-

Don't all Frenchmen have mustaches

LoyalACFan
08-15-2013, 06:20 AM
Don't all Frenchmen have mustaches

No, they just staple croissants to their upper lips.

Also, your signature is incorrect, the honor of sexiest Templar obviously goes to Juan Borgia.

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/c/cc/Juan_Borgia_the_Elder.png

Aww yeah, he makes all the ladies sweat.

avk111
08-15-2013, 09:15 AM
In reference to an earlier post by somebody on this thread said that "Haytham respected assassin back when they were fighting for peace"

Wasnt the assassin idealogy always consistant ? have thier idealogy changed over the passing of time ?

Not to mention Ezio was no casual shades of grey fella , he was a an Assassin fanatic who saw that freedom does bring anarchy I quote Ezio from AC:R

"I agree Liberty can be messy" then he says " But it is also priceless"

not to mention that Ezio had sacrificed the people in the souk or market and caused a rebelion so he can enter the weapon shelter to listen on the Byzantine conspiracy against the Othmans.

What do you guys think Haytham ment then ?

pirate1802
08-15-2013, 09:35 AM
no Ezio was a shining example of assassins and anyone who questions him or his ideals is a weak-willed templar sheep.

LoyalACFan
08-15-2013, 09:55 AM
In reference to an earlier post by somebody on this thread said that "Haytham respected assassin back when they were fighting for peace"

Wasnt the assassin idealogy always consistant ? have thier idealogy changed over the passing of time ?

Not to mention Ezio was no casual shades of grey fella , he was a an Assassin fanatic who saw that freedom does bring anarchy I quote Ezio from AC:R

"I agree Liberty can be messy" then he says " But it is also priceless"

not to mention that Ezio had sacrificed the people in the souk or market and caused a rebelion so he can enter the weapon shelter to listen on the Byzantine conspiracy against the Othmans.

What do you guys think Haytham ment then ?

Depends on your definition of freedom. The Assassins of Connor's time took it farther than Ezio ever did. Ezio wanted the people to be "free" from oppression and bad government, but he did seem to favor strong leadership much as Haytham did. He backed Suleiman and the Medici, after all, and both were rather dictatorial, though they were depicted as good leaders who provided for their subjects. Conversely, Connor was basically a proto-anarchist, wherein he wanted everyone to be free to live their lives however they want with a very limited democratic government, which was what Haytham found ludicrous. I can easily see Haytham backing someone like Lorenzo or Suleiman.

As for Ezio sacrificing the civilians in the marketplace/killing Tarik/burning Cappadocia, I think that was intended to be more a reflection of ACR's theme of an aging Assassin who's beginning to make mistakes, leading to his eventual retirement. I don't think it reflected any particular ideology.

avk111
08-15-2013, 10:41 AM
Depends on your definition of freedom. The Assassins of Connor's time took it farther than Ezio ever did. Ezio wanted the people to be "free" from oppression and bad government, but he did seem to favor strong leadership much as Haytham did. He backed Suleiman and the Medici, after all, and both were rather dictatorial, though they were depicted as good leaders who provided for their subjects. Conversely, Connor was basically a proto-anarchist, wherein he wanted everyone to be free to live their lives however they want with a very limited democratic government, which was what Haytham found ludicrous. I can easily see Haytham backing someone like Lorenzo or Suleiman.

As for Ezio sacrificing the civilians in the marketplace/killing Tarik/burning Cappadocia, I think that was intended to be more a reflection of ACR's theme of an aging Assassin who's beginning to make mistakes, leading to his eventual retirement. I don't think it reflected any particular ideology.

Hmm,

In defense to Connor though he did not have any leaders to be given authority at his time, GW was the best of what was available. And I absolutely agree with him on not backing down to the templars mainly Charles Lee. However if you put Charles Lee out of the picture , then I think Connor would have done what was required and accomplished "Peace" for both factions Assassins and Templars. It kind of puts Haytham on the spot light as Charles Lee wasnt the best leader to support the country.

In terms of Ezio making mistakes, I think he took two when he killed Suleiman Uncle and discovered his death was pointless.

Finally, Connor should be able to comprehend these issues in the event a sequel does happen. As did with Ezio did comprehend these things after leaving his vow to avenge his parents death.

Note: Im trying to stay away from Any Connor vs.Ezio argument as strongly as possible.

potato180
04-24-2014, 08:47 PM
Well he could have used an extremely strong dose and yes ezio was already dying, but maybe that could have added to the speed of his death.

Aphex_Tim
04-25-2014, 08:01 AM
Hmm,

In defense to Connor though he did not have any leaders to be given authority at his time, GW was the best of what was available.

I also think Connor's faith in having any kind of leader for the people was shattered when the only person he believed in turned out to be monster as well.

Locopells
04-25-2014, 11:29 AM
Guys, this is badly necroed - use this:

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/869779-Assassin-s-Creed-Embers-Let-s-Talk