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Aza404
08-13-2013, 04:14 PM
Dear champions,

This week we've got a double Tuesday Card Debate for you guys, two cards from the same expansion, faction and clan!
Tell us everything you know about these two cards: the wolf Captain and the wolf Justicar...

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/F2P/MMDOC/TCD/s01_Cre_Hav_022.png

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/F2P/MMDOC/TCD/s01_Cre_Hav_023.png

Kwasowy
08-13-2013, 04:19 PM
both very strng, both very rare.

Atum85
08-13-2013, 04:25 PM
And both part of the most nerfed and useless faction in the game.

GustavXIII
08-13-2013, 04:26 PM
First, i like the whole Wolf Duchy theme and flavour. Special thanks to those responsible for the artworks.

But like Kwasowy said, both are very rare.....i have zero wolf captains and two Justicar. Especially Wolf Captain can shift the whole power level of your haven deck. Its an epic from a set with "limited" access now, you should be more careful with that in the future. Wolf Justiciar is a rare which was good for retaliation-counter decks, which are not viable any longer, so some considerations for those kind of strategies in the future could be nice as well, to make Wolf Justiciar a welcomed rare.

Wolf Justicar, the hottest lady in DoC ;)

Daefon
08-13-2013, 05:09 PM
Wolf captain ties together the haven guard strategy and gets you some offensive value by putting your creatures together. This is direly needed because being adjacent brings disadvantages of itself (geyser, fireball, ...). It's a shame this card is an epic, because it's needed to play haven creature decks at any competitive level. On the other hand, the card is probably a little too powerful. As a 2 drop, it will often swing for 3 and still has 5 health to boot.This card should have been slightly less powerful and more available (common or uncommon).

As for Wolf Justicar, I think it's a weak card. It ties into Haven's weaker strategy, retaliation. Retaliation is weak because of all the "immune to retaliation" creatures and because you can't retaliate when you die. On top of that, it doesn't have very awe inspiring stats for a 5 drop. I'd rather have an Archlich on the board most of the time than this card, and Archlich is a 4-drop. Even the additon of Offensive Stance won't make retaliation decks viable. Elrath's blessing is a nice card with both offensive and defensive options to this playstyle, but you still only have 4 of those.

MoritzBradtke
08-13-2013, 05:18 PM
Wolf captain ties together the haven guard strategy and gets you some offensive value by putting your creatures together. This is direly needed because being adjacent brings disadvantages of itself (geyser, fireball, ...). It's a shame this card is an epic, because it's needed to play haven creature decks at any competitive level. On the other hand, the card is probably a little too powerful. As a 2 drop, it will often swing for 3 and still has 5 health to boot.This card should have been slightly less powerful and more available (common or uncommon).

As for Wolf Justicar, I think it's a weak card. It ties into Haven's weaker strategy, retaliation. Retaliation is weak because of all the "immune to retaliation" creatures and because you can't retaliate when you die. On top of that, it doesn't have very awe inspiring stats for a 5 drop. I'd rather have an Archlich on the board most of the time than this card, and Archlich is a 4-drop. Even the additon of Offensive Stance won't make retaliation decks viable. Elrath's blessing is a nice card with both offensive and defensive options to this playstyle, but you still only have 4 of those.

Wolf Captain too strong? not really, i say he is balanced (: Why? Like u already said Fireball, Geysir stuff, thats why, its often a high risk to use him that way, often he'll hit for 3 dmg at best and thats the same dmg as glory, and come one, its supposed to be a epic....

Wolf Justicar is retiliate deck and retiliate deck isnt very good atm, if u want it to be, then buff the cards related to it, make offensive stance alot stronger and make wolf justicar sttronger, 2dmg on a 5 drop???, his effect is nice and i know he is supposed to be a buffer but that whole thing isnt working, and overwork retibuation, because its useless most of the time because of rng dmg or spells

B4ldry
08-13-2013, 08:13 PM
level 80 and dont have ether one so cant say anyting about it -.-

therhh
08-14-2013, 04:40 AM
Wolf captain is such a flawed card that has set the pace for Haven aggro decks. It is an incredibly strong card, but its strength is holding Haven back.

Having 3+ of them is nearly necessary for haven aggro to keep up with other factions in higher elos. And as many have already pointed out, it is way too rare. I'm nearly 50 myself and don't have a single one. I would love to play my Alia/Sand deck one day but without WC's the deck isn't viable.

Haven is in such poor shape right now. Sandelphon aggro is the only one that really works, and as mentioned it requires wolf captains, plural. It is simply horrible design for a faction to be completely reliant on multiple copies of one epic card to be viable at higher tiers.

Solutions? Obviously the most thorough solution would require complete retuning of all other haven creatures and fortunes. But we all know that's not going to happen. So here's a few possible bandage fixes

Make it unique. Give it a truly unique special ability so it fits a role similar to that of Nyorai Sairensa. Here's a few suggestion off the top of my head
1. Gives all adjacent friendly units (including itself) enemy spell ward. This would help immensely against spells such as fireball,, which counter Haven hard due to all its creatures' reliance to stack up.
2. When you play a wolf clan creature, take wolf captain from your deck or the graveyard and put it in your hand.
3. All allied creatures gain preemptive strike and retribution. All enemies lose immune to retaliation.

I think you get the point. Just make it UNIQUE. The card is simply too rare but also too necessary.

DoubleDeck
08-14-2013, 12:21 PM
I perfer the Wolf Captain. At 2 drop, I would love to have more of them....only have one.....
Aza: Can you bring this discussion in the Pit sometime? lol

Atum85
08-14-2013, 01:30 PM
Aza: Can you bring this discussion in the Pit sometime? lolThis. It would be nice to get something very useful in the pit from time to time.

ulpsz
08-20-2013, 02:29 PM
wolf captain is one of the weakest cards because it starts with 0 ret, it can't evin block a t1 creature properley with only one friendley next to it...

and it sets up your army to be killed by aoe spells...

I thought I was so lucky when I gor 4 of them in my first void box

if you have a good hand it can win you games ...nothing much else about it...

it was viable for heaven rush decks before herald..(kieran, and siegfried)

they both fit the theme right tho...wonder why Justicar doesn't have RETRIBUTION??

Morkje
08-20-2013, 02:37 PM
wolf captain is one of the weakest cards because it starts with 0 ret, it can't evin block a t1 creature properley with only one friendley next to it...

??

Obvious troll is obvious. Or you really mean that and are completely ignorant.

Wolf Captain is really good, with a big butt for it's 2 cost. I believe it's balanced by it's 3 Might requirement.
Sure it can open you up for AEO spells, but in the meantime you can deal large amounts of damage with it.
Surround it with high health creatures or use Poa Deathseeker in the rows next to it to boost for your turn only.

No experiance with the Justicar but he feel underwhelming. It also suffers from having no great 4 or other 5 drops in it's faction.
We are getting more retaliation tools with each set, so who knows what will tip the scale for this guy.
hero with abiltiy "all opponenets creature lose immume to retalliation" ?
Probably needs to be activated instead of passive, but I could see it happen.

Nillicomes
08-20-2013, 02:43 PM
You just came back and already started trolling... take it easy man you have plenty time for that!!!


... and Justicar don't have retribution because it boost other creatures.... of course.

Alir95
08-20-2013, 03:15 PM
I think this two card are the only cards that don't made playing haven miserable especially with aliah. wolf justicar if you have two of them can help clearing all board if you have right fortunes.

NorsemanXXI
08-26-2013, 02:56 PM
Both cards are fine as they are.

Wolf Captain is perfect in any Haven deck. Being an Epic card is a problem for such an essential card on Haven. Haven theme is very defensive in general, with the Retaliation, Guards, Healing, etc. However, this theme doesn't work so well without some aggressiveness, that is where this card comes in.

Wolf Justicar has been used in an attempt to build a Retaliation deck. I like the theme but right now there isn't enough cards to make it viable. The deck is too much dependent on Elrath's Blessing and there are too many creatures immune to retaliation damage to make it effective for defense.

I hope in the next expansions something can make the retaliation deck viable but it can be tricky to do that without making it broken.

ulpsz
08-26-2013, 10:42 PM
... and Justicar don't have retribution because it boost other creatures.... of course.

and why should that be an obvious reason...

it could have retribution AND bosst other creatures - what would be wrong with that...



don't want to start another wolf captain debate here...I said all I could say about the subject after void rising came out...


but to clear one thing for all of you out there...weak DOES NOT EQUAL BAD...weak is something that does not use it's full potential....and a creature in a defensive themed faction that starts with o ret (especially an epic one..) is a clear example of that