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View Full Version : How will Juno be used in Black Flag and future installments? (spoilers for AC1-AC3)



Jexx21
08-10-2013, 01:27 AM
So, in AC3 we learn that Juno was locked inside of device that could contain the conscious mind and memories of someone (or at least someone who was a First Civ), but to be free of containment in this device, it would require someone's life to be given up. Or, at least, that's what I can perceive from the data given to us.

By the end of the game, Desmond dies, and frees Juno from the device, and I assumed that she would have been able to manifest a physical form. But recently, we have learned that right now, Juno is a rogue AI roaming the airwaves.

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/0/01/ACI_Juno.jpg
I assume that in Black Flag, we might be able to see her footprint left behind in Abstergo data, but I don't think we'll have direct interaction with her. At least, not in the optional content. Seeing as the mandatory modern-day gameplay is only 15 minutes, I doubt that we would interact with her much in the mandatory content as well.

I also assume that eventually, she is going to find a way to take a physical form again. I'm curious as to how this will be done. Will she take control of a human? Will she somehow find her "burial spot" and take control of her old body? Will she take control of a robot form (too much like EDI from Mass Effect though)?

More importantly though, how will we stop her?

adventurewomen
08-10-2013, 01:33 AM
Great Thread! :D

I never trusted, I suspected Juno the whole time since AC2, Desmond should have listened to Minerva!

I will go as far as to say Juno is in a way responable for Connor's village leaving she did tell him it's a "Small sacrifice, that will serve purpose" - something along those lines at the end of AC3. Juno manipulated Connor's life to serve for her plan. As for Ezio he didn't know any better than just to put the Apple in the Rome vault.

Since Juno was such a massive plot twist - antagonist. I'm sure Ubi have lots in store for her character. Hopefully Minerva carries some strength to defeat her in the end. However long that plot will take maybe across a few more games, but not to be resolved in just AC4 only but future games as well.

It will be interesting to see how this all turns out in AC4 and in the future. :)

roostersrule2
08-10-2013, 01:38 AM
I don't think she'll be done in this next game, I'd say she helps launch the satellite and then when Abstergo have control she takes over them and the people left unharmed go up against her. That'd be cool but in AC's modern day we never do anything cool.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 01:45 AM
Great Thread! :D

I never trusted, I suspected Juno the whole time since AC2, Desmond should have listened to Minerva!

I will go as far as to say Juno is in a way responable for Connor's village leaving she did tell him it's a "Small sacrifice, that will serve purpose" - something along those lines at the end of AC3. Juno manipulated Connor's life to serve for her plan. As for Ezio he didn't know any better than just to put the Apple in the Rome vault.

Since Juno was such a massive plot twist - antagonist. I'm sure Ubi have lots in store for her character. Hopefully Minerva carries some strength to defeat her in the end. However long that plot will take maybe across a few more games, but not to be resolved in just AC4 only but future games as well.

It will be interesting to see how this all turns out in AC4. :)

Yeah. Poor Connor. Juno was pretty much vicious in this all thing and she played it well. I can safely say I hate her more than the Templars.


I don't think she'll be done in this next game, I'd say she helps launch the satellite and then when Abstergo have control she takes over them and the people left unharmed go up against her. That'd be cool but in AC's modern day we never do anything cool.

Yeah, come from behind and surprise the world after they have all been brainwashed (if they manage to finish the ASP, how are Abstergo not gonna be affected?). But yeah I agree about the Modern Day thing. At most the most of the good parts of the final battle would be in a comic, read in collectables/email or movie. Not to mention Ubisoft will milk the series dry (why couldn't it be a trilogy?)

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 01:45 AM
Actually, even if the satellite is launched, it's going to fail. It was shown to Desmond..

..but.. It was shown to Desmond through Juno.. maybe she deceived Desmond.

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 01:46 AM
Sith, don't bring your whining into this thread. I'm sick and tired of it.

Shahkulu101
08-10-2013, 01:49 AM
I don't think she will feature heavily in Black Flag. I think there will only be veiled hints through emails, maybe she'll email us personally again. Come to think of it maybe Edward is also deceived by Juno and he inadvertently aids her in enslaving humanity or whatever her intentions are. Other than that I don't see her in the historical segment.

dxsxhxcx
08-10-2013, 01:49 AM
Actually, even if the satellite is launched, it's going to fail. It was shown to Desmond..

..but.. It was shown to Desmond through Juno.. maybe she deceived Desmond.

maybe with Juno's aid they will be able to launch it and what was shown to Desmond was the human attempt to do it without her help...

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 01:51 AM
Sith, don't bring your whining into this thread. I'm sick and tired of it.

I see you are the one antagonizing me instead.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 01:55 AM
Sith, don't bring your whining into this thread. I'm sick and tired of it.

What the hell, Jexx? There is no need for this at all. This is horribly petulant of you. You aren't even letting him speak his mind. I don't care about what happened before. It's as if you intentionally want to start conflict.

Telling someone yo blatantly sod off is the equivalent of pretty much welcoming them to conflict.

eaglefan129
08-10-2013, 01:55 AM
I don't see Juno returning until whatever the 'last' game is maybe teases similar to head of abstergo in AC2. (i can't believe i just forgot his name) I really hope they don't take a page out of mass effect if anything it reminds me of some other character at the end of the game (spoilers) I duno i just have a feeling that she'll be the franchises ending boss as reported ubi has a narrative plan that they want to end the franchise with so who knows but I don't except 'god' like characters (for lack of a better word) in 4 it'll be backstory stuff I think more or less.

Assassin_M
08-10-2013, 01:55 AM
I don`t see any alliance between Juno and the Templars. It doesn't make sense..

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 01:56 AM
Oh, I also always wondered how the systems of the Grand Temple were connected.

I'm assuming that what actually saved Earth from the solar flares were the towers, and that the automation process that begun 70,000 or so years ago was completed. But why wouldn't they save the world all by themselves? Why did Desmond need to sacrifice his life and free Juno to turn them on?

My personal theory is, sometime after the other First Civ died out, Juno in her AI state managed to link these systems together, so that the only way the towers would work is if she was free. It's possible that the other methods that the First Civ tried to save the world were also used as supplements, and also linked to the system Juno was locked up in.

It's also possible that Desmond's genes were actually the last power source, and that his life-force provided the necessary kick to allow the systems to protect Earth.

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 01:58 AM
What the hell, Jexx? There is no need for this at all. This is horribly petulant of you. You aren't even letting him speak his mind. I don't care about what happened before. It's as if you intentionally want to start conflict.

Telling someone yo blatantly sod off is the equivalent of pretty much welcoming them to conflict.

I'm not gonna put up with him saying stuff that can derail the thread. I'm looking for one that will actually be a discussion for once. We don't need to see his whining on "oh oh Ubisoft is so milking the franchise, why did they have to expand from the initial trilogy concept." If he wants to talk about that, he can make his own topic.

I'm just asking for him to actually contribute to the topic, rather than bring up a different topic.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 01:59 AM
I don`t see any alliance between Juno and the Templars. It doesn't make sense..

They both want Control.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 01:59 AM
With my criticism of Jexx and his quite immature move aside, I'll speak my mind.


Sooner or later, they're gonna fit her into some Messiah storyline that alludes to everyone worshipping her or something. It's inevitable

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 02:00 AM
I don't see Juno returning until whatever the 'last' game is maybe teases similar to head of abstergo in AC2. (i can't believe i just forgot his name) I really hope they don't take a page out of mass effect if anything it reminds me of some other character at the end of the game (spoilers) I duno i just have a feeling that she'll be the franchises ending boss as reported ubi has a narrative plan that they want to end the franchise with so who knows but I don't except 'god' like characters (for lack of a better word) in 4 it'll be backstory stuff I think more or less.

Alan Rikkin is the CEO of Abstergo. And I don't think Juno is an everlasting plot thread. I think it would just be another arc of the series, like the "December 21st 2012" arc.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 02:00 AM
I'm not gonna put up with him saying stuff that can derail the thread. I'm looking for one that will actually be a discussion for once. We don't need to see his whining on "oh oh Ubisoft is so milking the franchise, why did they have to expand from the initial trilogy concept." If he wants to talk about that, he can make his own topic.

I'm just asking for him to actually contribute to the topic, rather than bring up a different topic.

I said that because Juno actually doing anything in the modern day would never happen for the past few games. It was to the guy above me in that post. I've gotten used to how Ubisoft handles the modern day was what I was trying to say. It's clear you wanted to bait me.

Shahkulu101
08-10-2013, 02:01 AM
With my criticism of Jexx and his quite immature move aside, I'll speak my mind.


Sooner or later, they're gonna fit her into some Messiah storyline that alludes to everyone worshipping her or something. It's inevitable

If that is to be the case it would be hard for the Assassin's to deal with her behind closed doors. Perhaps they are found out amid all the chaos.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 02:01 AM
Alan Rikkin is the CEO of Abstergo. And I don't think Juno is an everlasting plot thread. I think it would just be another arc of the series, like the "December 21st 2012" arc.

Which is in fact a character mentioned in AC1 and shown again in AC3.

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 02:01 AM
I was fine with everything else in your post except for what I stated.

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 02:02 AM
Which is in fact a character mentioned in AC1 and shown again in AC3.

Yes...

Assassin_M
08-10-2013, 02:02 AM
They both want Control.
It`s not that simplistic. Juno doesn't want humanity to advance, she doesn't care about humanity, in fact she hates humanity. She wants them to be her slaves.

The Templars on the other hand want control to advance humanity. to end all conflicts. to move humanity forward. to have it reach its potential.

Ignoring all that, The Templars view those who came before negatively...i doubt they`d suddenly change their minds

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 02:03 AM
If that is to be the case it would be hard for the Assassin's to deal with her behind closed doors. Perhaps they are found out amid all the chaos.

This is true. The Assassins have already been against the wall since 2000 against Abstergo/Templars. Juno can stop a damn solar flare and is an A.I (ugh). If Gavin can't gather these....Initiates in time. Then all hope is lost.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 02:05 AM
I'm not gonna put up with him saying stuff that can derail the thread. I'm looking for one that will actually be a discussion for once. We don't need to see his whining on "oh oh Ubisoft is so milking the franchise, why did they have to expand from the initial trilogy concept." If he wants to talk about that, he can make his own topic.

I'm just asking for him to actually contribute to the topic, rather than bring up a different topic.

But you're not even giving him a chance, you're just throwing out a blatant warning. You could have at least added an "if" before your warning. No need to throw disingenuous accusations. Sith can contribute constructively to the argument if you don't warn him against doing so and telling him that he's a burden. Just please stop. If not for him, at least for me, Jexx. Hold me responsible for whatever he says out of line in this thread and please just apologise for the rather blunt statement you made before he even attempted to enter the discussion. No need to mention other threads. Let's just have this one perfect thread.

roostersrule2
08-10-2013, 02:05 AM
Actually, even if the satellite is launched, it's going to fail. It was shown to Desmond..

..but.. It was shown to Desmond through Juno.. maybe she deceived Desmond.That was just the next launch, they can always make adjustments.

eaglefan129
08-10-2013, 02:05 AM
It`s not that simplistic. Juno doesn't want humanity to advance, she doesn't care about humanity, in fact she hates humanity. She wants them to be her slaves.

The Templars on the other hand want control to advance humanity. to end all conflicts. to move humanity forward. to have it reach its potential.

Ignoring all that, The Templars view those who cam before negatively...i doubt they`d suddenly change their minds

exactly there was an email in AC3 that her feelings on humans are basically that were animals.. i don't remember the lines but that's pretty much what she thinks of us

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 02:06 AM
I don't believe that Juno is the one who directly stopped the solar flare. She just linked all of the systems that the world-saving first civ team came up with to her own containment system, which made it so that the only way to save the world would be to free her.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 02:06 AM
It`s not that simplistic. Juno doesn't want humanity to advance, she doesn't care about humanity, in fact she hates humanity. She wants them to be her slaves.

The Templars on the other hand want control to advance humanity. to end all conflicts. to move humanity forward. to have it reach its potential.

Ignoring all that, The Templars view those who came before negatively...i doubt they`d suddenly change their minds

*smack* How did I miss that small detail. However the struggle would still be pretty strong with Juno's knowledge of the tech and the Templar's knowledge of the tech. Still it's similar. Just that variable makes the difference. Depends on how many games is when we'd see how much of a difference it'd be.

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 02:07 AM
Oh, I also always wondered how the systems of the Grand Temple were connected.

I'm assuming that what actually saved Earth from the solar flares were the towers, and that the automation process that begun 70,000 or so years ago was completed. But why wouldn't they save the world all by themselves? Why did Desmond need to sacrifice his life and free Juno to turn them on?

My personal theory is, sometime after the other First Civ died out, Juno in her AI state managed to link these systems together, so that the only way the towers would work is if she was free. It's possible that the other methods that the First Civ tried to save the world were also used as supplements, and also linked to the system Juno was locked up in.

It's also possible that Desmond's genes were actually the last power source, and that his life-force provided the necessary kick to allow the systems to protect Earth.

Anyone else have possible theories on how the saving the world shtick worked here?

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 02:09 AM
exactly there was an email in AC3 that her feelings on humans are basically that were animals.. i don't remember the lines but that's pretty much what she thinks of us

Here's what it is...




FROM: 01001010010101010100111001001111 SUBJECT: THINKING ABOUT YOU SENT: Dec. 7th, 2012 4:18 TO: D. MILES Your kind You wretched, simple things. One step removed from animals. One step removed? No steps. None. You are animals. We had the sense. The sixth. We were transcendent. You are pretenders. You suppress. Your artifices are lies. Economics. Philosophy. Literature. Love. All borne of desperation. Denying what you are. ANIMALS. Who root. Who feast. Who ****. Who kill. Hate. That is what I think of When I think of you. [[ END MESSAGE ]]

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 02:10 AM
If that is to be the case it would be hard for the Assassin's to deal with her behind closed doors. Perhaps they are found out amid all the chaos.

I actually hope this would be the case.

Thousands of years revealed to the whole world. Secrets upon secrets of how these secret organisations affected the world.


Juno would be a genius to do so. She would have hit the Templars and Assassins by revealing their secrets and causing the world to view them in disdain. It WILL force them to work together and can also make for a great game ending.



Imagine this. The Assassins and Templars become disbanded at the end of the series and they learn the true values of peace and coexistence.....but since Ubisoft are cheeky bastards, before they show the end credits they'll have an easter eggs showing the two factions plotting plans again despite of their supposed "peace" and disbandment. I spoiled the end of the series for you guys (maybe).

roostersrule2
08-10-2013, 02:12 AM
It`s not that simplistic. Juno doesn't want humanity to advance, she doesn't care about humanity, in fact she hates humanity. She wants them to be her slaves.

The Templars on the other hand want control to advance humanity. to end all conflicts. to move humanity forward. to have it reach its potential.

Ignoring all that, The Templars view those who came before negatively...i doubt they`d suddenly change their minds
*MASS EFFECT SPOILERS*

Maybe but think of it this way.

Abstergo are Cerberus, a company set out on making humanity the best it can be by performing extreme actions.

TWCB (Or Juno in particular) are The Reapers, advanced beings who set out to destroy.

Now Cerberus and The Reapers motives contradict each other but that didn't stop Ceberus from using them, or trying too. The exact same scenario could happen in AC just with Abstergo and TWCB.

Assassin_M
08-10-2013, 02:15 AM
*MASS EFFECT SPOILERS*

Maybe but think of it this way.

Abstergo are Cerberus, a company set out on making humanity the best it can be by performing extreme actions.

TWCB (Or Juno in particular) are The Reapers, advanced beings who set out to destroy.

Now Cerberus and The Reapers motives contradict each other but that didn't stop Ceberus from using them, or trying too. The exact same scenario could happen in AC just with Abstergo and TWCB.
Ahhh using them, yes...Just not aligning..I simply can`t see it.

If you`v read the Abstergo MP files about twcb you`ll know what I mean.

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 02:15 AM
Imagine this. The Assassins and Templars become disbanded at the end of the series and they learn the true values of peace and coexistence.....but since Ubisoft are cheeky bastards, before they show the end credits they'll have an easter eggs showing the two factions plotting plans again despite of their supposed "peace" and disbandment. I spoiled the end of the series for you guys (maybe).

I would support this ending, except for them making plans to war again. Focus on how to make a world without violence, but also keep free will.

roostersrule2
08-10-2013, 02:16 AM
Ahhh using them, yes...Just not aligning..I simply can`t see it.

If you`v read the Abstergo MP files about twcb you`ll know what I mean.I read the ACR ones, I'll read the AC3 ones on the wiki now.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 02:21 AM
I actually hope this would be the case.

Thousands of years revealed to the whole world. Secrets upon secrets of how these secret organisations affected the world.


Juno would be a genius to do so. She would have hit the Templars and Assassins by revealing their secrets and causing the world to view them in disdain. It WILL force them to work together and can also make for a great game ending.



Imagine this. The Assassins and Templars become disbanded at the end of the series and they learn the true values of peace and coexistence.....but since Ubisoft are cheeky bastards, before they show the end credits they'll have an easter eggs showing the two factions plotting plans again despite of their supposed "peace" and disbandment. I spoiled the end of the series for you guys (maybe).

Why could Ubisoft just reboot the series. Are they afraid of the reboot issues recently or that no one would care about the rebooted versions of the characters/story?


*MASS EFFECT SPOILERS*

Maybe but think of it this way.

Abstergo are Cerberus, a company set out on making humanity the best it can be by performing extreme actions.

TWCB (Or Juno in particular) are The Reapers, advanced beings who set out to destroy.

Now Cerberus and The Reapers motives contradict each other but that didn't stop Ceberus from using them, or trying too. The exact same scenario could happen in AC just with Abstergo and TWCB.

*MASS EFFECT 3 SPOILERS*

Cerberus had massive decay in ME3. Same with Aria. It was pretty obvious they were indoctrinated as revealed in Cerberus Headquarters. But like Shepard said to The Catalyst. Jack was right in the end but couldn't control them.

So that's another outcome. Maybe in those games you can visit more areas in Modern Day.

Assassin_M
08-10-2013, 02:21 AM
I read the ACR ones, I'll read the AC3 ones on the wiki now.
Actually what i`m referring to is in the ACR files :|

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 02:22 AM
But you're not even giving him a chance, you're just throwing out a blatant warning. You could have at least added an "if" before your warning. No need to throw disingenuous accusations. Sith can contribute constructively to the argument if you don't warn him against doing so and telling him that he's a burden. Just please stop. If not for him, at least for me, Jexx. Hold me responsible for whatever he says out of line in this thread and please just apologise for the rather blunt statement you made before he even attempted to enter the discussion. No need to mention other threads. Let's just have this one perfect thread.

I get it, but tbh, I sort of feel like I've given him enough chances. But then again, what's one more?

Sorry sith. I hope you realize that I don't actively try to insult you, I just find issues with how you present yourself at times. If it helps, I have never called you an idiot, immature, or a child. I don't think of you as any of those. I think you have been through some complicated problems that are hard to deal with. I think you can bring up legit points, and I hope I can acknowledge them more.

roostersrule2
08-10-2013, 02:25 AM
Actually what i`m referring to is in the ACR files :|Well I haven't read them for 2 years so I forgot hehe.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 02:25 AM
I would support this ending, except for them making plans to war again. Focus on how to make a world without violence, but also keep free will.

Did I say easter egg? Damn it, I meant a cliffhanger.

We'll be left with a cliff hanger showing both factions re-planning something (which eventually becomes the re-emergence of Templar-esque groups and Assassin-esque groups).


It's the sort of perfect cliff hanger. A series about moral ambiguity will have an ending with Assassins and Templars skipping happily through flowers. Humans are not like that. We do not learn from our mistakes. It's the reason why wars still happen to this day.


To me, the perfect ending and cliffhanger, the perfect mirror of what moral ambiguity this series represents is having these two factions emerge again. Alta´r said it himself. It's delusional. At the end of the game, this cliffhanger might happen. Even when we thougt we learned our lesson and that coexistence is the best way to live, we still go back to war. War never changes. The peace that Templars and Assassins build will be the same one they allude to ending at the cliffhanger finale of the series. It's the perfect representation of this whole struggle of why this "life is not a fairy tale and there are no happy endings".

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 02:28 AM
I get it, but tbh, I sort of feel like I've given him enough chances. But then again, what's one more?

Sorry sith. I hope you realize that I don't actively try to insult you, I just find issues with how you present yourself at times. If it helps, I have never called you an idiot, immature, or a child. I don't think of you as any of those. I think you have been through some complicated problems that are hard to deal with. I think you can bring up legit points, and I hope I can acknowledge them more.

I doubt you can or will. And I shouldn't have to prove to you my opinions on the morals of the game or you-know-who. A character I even said I like.

But I guess a truce wouldn't hurt. :)

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 02:30 AM
I get it, but tbh, I sort of feel like I've given him enough chances. But then again, what's one more?

Sorry sith. I hope you realize that I don't actively try to insult you, I just find issues with how you present yourself at times. If it helps, I have never called you an idiot, immature, or a child. I don't think of you as any of those. I think you have been through some complicated problems that are hard to deal with. I think you can bring up legit points, and I hope I can acknowledge them more.

I genuinely thank you for this Jexx. This will really go a long time in mending this issue. Now Sith, please let this be testimony to you that we're not here to bully someone in particular. I hope Jexx has offered you insight as to what you might want to take care about in the future. At the end of the day, we're all just a bunch of guys with a passion for video games.

Thank you both for being gentlemanly about it (I hope).

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 02:31 AM
I doubt you can or will. And I shouldn't have to prove to you my opinions on the morals of the game or you-know-who. A character I even said I like.

But I guess a truce wouldn't hurt. :)

Jexx, that's just his way of saying let's start a nice friendship (it is).

Assassin_M
08-10-2013, 02:32 AM
Well I haven't read them for 2 years so I forgot hehe.
Well, it`s file 14 :D

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 02:33 AM
Why could Ubisoft just reboot the series. Are they afraid of the reboot issues recently or that no one would care about the rebooted versions of the characters/story?



*MASS EFFECT 3 SPOILERS*

Cerberus had massive decay in ME3. Same with Aria. It was pretty obvious they were indoctrinated as revealed in Cerberus Headquarters. But like Shepard said to The Catalyst. Jack was right in the end but couldn't control them.

So that's another outcome. Maybe in those games you can visit more areas in Modern Day.

Before Ubisoft reboots this, they need a proper send off. They're trying to make one happen, but we need the approval of pope Yves Guillmont first. It's mainly a historical game anyway, so most people won't notice the reboot of the modern arc.

Anywho, it's not really a matter of reboot I'm arguing.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 02:37 AM
Did I say easter egg? Damn it, I meant a cliffhanger.

We'll be left with a cliff hanger showing both factions re-planning something (which eventually becomes the re-emergence of Templar-esque groups and Assassin-esque groups).


It's the sort of perfect cliff hanger. A series about moral ambiguity will have an ending with Assassins and Templars skipping happily through flowers. Humans are not like that. We do not learn from our mistakes. It's the reason why wars still happen to this day.


To me, the perfect ending and cliffhanger, the perfect mirror of what moral ambiguity this series represents is having these two factions emerge again. Alta´r said it himself. It's delusional. At the end of the game, this cliffhanger might happen. Even when we thougt we learned our lesson and that coexistence is the best way to live, we still go back to war. War never changes. The peace that Templars and Assassins build will be the same one they allude to ending at the cliffhanger finale of the series. It's the perfect representation of this whole struggle of why this "life is not a fairy tale and there are no happy endings".

Now flawed? Just never learning from mistakes. Well that's just downright bleak. You make it sound like Humanity is worse than it sounds.

As for the ending, that'd be disappointing. Not bad. But disappointing. But like Abstergo said: "Miles can’t stop them. Whatever he does, whatever secret he kept for himself, won’t work. It’s a battle that’s been raging for millennia. Miles’ actions are not a means to an end."

There needs to be something better than just...nothing getting done. Not even this wake up call would whip humanity into shape?

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 02:37 AM
Did I say easter egg? Damn it, I meant a cliffhanger.

We'll be left with a cliff hanger showing both factions re-planning something (which eventually becomes the re-emergence of Templar-esque groups and Assassin-esque groups).


It's the sort of perfect cliff hanger. A series about moral ambiguity will have an ending with Assassins and Templars skipping happily through flowers. Humans are not like that. We do not learn from our mistakes. It's the reason why wars still happen to this day.


To me, the perfect ending and cliffhanger, the perfect mirror of what moral ambiguity this series represents is having these two factions emerge again. Alta´r said it himself. It's delusional. At the end of the game, this cliffhanger might happen. Even when we thougt we learned our lesson and that coexistence is the best way to live, we still go back to war. War never changes. The peace that Templars and Assassins build will be the same one they allude to ending at the cliffhanger finale of the series. It's the perfect representation of this whole struggle of why this "life is not a fairy tale and there are no happy endings".

Then that ending would ultimately mean that the Templars are right. To have peace, we can't have free will. I support free will and peace. I don't support wars. I support non-violent methods of "fighting" back, such as those utilized by Ghandi and MLK Jr.

I think instead of showing the groups as a whole as planning something, you should have specific people in these groups planning something. Like have an Assassin that was reprimanded for thinking that just killing the other side would keep any more issues from appearing, and show him getting together like-minded people.

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 02:40 AM
Before Ubisoft reboots this, they need a proper send off. They're trying to make one happen, but we need the approval of pope Yves Guillmont first. It's mainly a historical game anyway, so most people won't notice the reboot of the modern arc.

Anywho, it's not really a matter of reboot I'm arguing.

Oh god I hope not. Rebooting anything in the series would be terrible. I don't want a reboot.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 02:46 AM
Now flawed? Just never learning from mistakes. Well that's just downright bleak. You make it sound like Humanity is worse than it sounds.

As for the ending, that'd be disappointing. Not bad. But disappointing. But like Abstergo said: "Miles can’t stop them. Whatever he does, whatever secret he kept for himself, won’t work. It’s a battle that’s been raging for millennia. Miles’ actions are not a means to an end."

There needs to be something better than just...nothing getting done. Not even this wake up call would whip humanity into shape?

Humanity has been through an apocalypse that whipped it AND TWCB before once. I'm not being intentionally bleak, but at least in the video game world, humanity has seen some darker crap that didn't incite much eternal change for the better. This is something the game constantly throws at our face. Peace. It never existed and never will. This is what the game is trying to tell us. Unless we change out thinking fundamentals, we will forever remain stagnate and this is exactly what's NOT happening. Our thoughts always remain stuck to the flawed, ancient ways. No matter how hard we try. Humans. Never. Change.


After the millions of war we've been through in real life, you'd think there would be difference, that human life will once again have it's value, nevertheless in the age of communication revolution? We still have wars.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 02:49 AM
Then that ending would ultimately mean that the Templars are right. To have peace, we can't have free will. I support free will and peace. I don't support wars. I support non-violent methods of "fighting" back, such as those utilized by Ghandi and MLK Jr.

I think instead of showing the groups as a whole as planning something, you should have specific people in these groups planning something. Like have an Assassin that was reprimanded for thinking that just killing the other side would keep any more issues from appearing, and show him getting together like-minded people.

And these "specific" people become the fuse to a greater conflict that in itself puts rise to the rebirth of both groups to "take charge" once again after what the outcasts did.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 02:51 AM
Oh god I hope not. Rebooting anything in the series would be terrible. I don't want a reboot.

You seem like the type of person who'd the AC equivelent of DmC. :P

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 02:54 AM
But, the ending should also show great philosphers and thinkers, people writing on non-violent ways. Not just seeds to fuel another war, but seeds that could potentially stop the war.

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 02:55 AM
You seem like the type of person who'd the AC equivelent of DmC. :P
uh.. did you forget a word here?

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 02:56 AM
Humanity has been through an apocalypse that whipped it AND TWCB before once. I'm not being intentionally bleak, but at least in the video game world, humanity has seen some darker crap that didn't incite much eternal change for the better. This is something the game constantly throws at our face. Peace. It never existed and never will. This is what the game is trying to tell us. Unless we change out thinking fundamentals, we will forever remain stagnate and this is exactly what's NOT happening. Our thoughts always remain stuck to the flawed, ancient ways. No matter how hard we try. Humans. Never. Change.


After the millions of war we've been through in real life, you'd think there would be difference, that human life will once again have it's value, nevertheless in the age of communication revolution? We still have wars.

Then how would the world be under Control?


And these "specific" people become the fuse to a greater conflict that in itself puts rise to the rebirth of both groups to "take charge" once again after what the outcasts did.

And if the war could end through peace. How do you think it should play out? Or is a new war the only logical outcome?

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 02:56 AM
uh.. did you forget a word here?

Yeah, "be". xD

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 03:04 AM
Then how would the world be under Control?



And if the war could end through peace. How do you think it should play out? Or is a new war the only logical outcome?

PM box, now.

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 03:04 AM
..where? can you retype that sentence again? I don't understand what you're trying to say really. I'm guessing your saying "You'd hate the AC equivalent of DmC"

I never played Devil May Cry.

And I just don't want an AC reboot, modern or historical. It would be too messy to do.

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 03:06 AM
PM box, now.
Why does this need to be taken to PM? wouldn't it be more apt to make a new topic?

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 03:08 AM
Why does this need to be taken to PM? wouldn't it be more apt to make a new topic?

It was something off topic.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 03:09 AM
Yeah, "be". xD

Look, the damn guy is finally using happy emoticons. Damn finally. Took you long enough.

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 03:11 AM
yea, wouldn't it be more apt to make a new topic then? rather than PMs?

I'm still interested in what we were talking about anyway..

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 03:14 AM
..where? can you retype that sentence again? I don't understand what you're trying to say really. I'm guessing your saying "You'd hate the AC equivalent of DmC"

I never played Devil May Cry.

And I just don't want an AC reboot, modern or historical. It would be too messy to do.

You came off as the type who'd snap at AC having a reboot saying characters like Desmond and Altair and Ezio were ruined. :P


Why does this need to be taken to PM? wouldn't it be more apt to make a new topic?

Nah it's a private matter. :)

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 03:14 AM
Then how would the world be under Control?



And if the war could end through peace. How do you think it should play out? Or is a new war the only logical outcome?

Have you seen the end of AC3? The cycle will repeat itself. Peace is a fragile concept. It breaks too easily. Pure control on the other hand ensures order but kills innovation and over a greater length of time leads to the same fate as Peace. A broken society. Both are poisons of their own. Both have an expiration date. Choose yours. You can't reverse a million years of war-inducing evolution with a petty.peace treaty. You'd need something very powerful to erase human nature.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 03:16 AM
Have you seen the end of AC3? The cycle will repeat itself. Peace is a fragile concept. It breaks too easily. Pure control on the other hand ensures order but kills innovation and over a greater length of time leads to the same fate as Peace. A broken society. Both are poisons of their own. Both have an expiration date. Choose yours. You can't reverse a million years of war-inducing evolution with a petty.peace treaty. You'd need something very powerful to erase human nature.

Just one is the lesser evil. So even Juno is right? That's dark even for AC. And we already no how Juno is to humanity...

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 03:21 AM
You came off as the type who'd snap at AC having a reboot saying characters like Desmond and Altair and Ezio were ruined. :P



Nah it's a private matter. :)

I'm usually the one who'd be scared for change, but I think the series can benefit from a reboot. With the current series, the games didn't actually sequence as planned. Things happened and the story arc completely changed. I'd personally would love to see Ubisoft actually making an AC reboot series that's FULLY planned before the series reboot even begins.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 03:28 AM
I'm usually the one who'd be scared for change, but I think the series can benefit from a reboot. With the current series, the games didn't actually sequence as planned. Things happened and the story arc completely changed. I'd personally would love to see Ubisoft actually making an AC reboot series that's FULLY planned before the series reboot even begins.

And even that would be butchered as long as Yves is involved. xP

Jexx21
08-10-2013, 03:31 AM
Uh.. how did the games not "sequence as planned." The story is coherent and makes sense.The story arc didn't change.

I don't support a reboot because they have too many characters, too many plotlines, to actually do a reboot, unless they just abandon all previous characters and don't try to redo them.

Frost, human nature CAN change over time, or at least, I believe it can. The ending of Assassin's Creed should end in a truce between the Assassins and the Templars, and with there finally being a period of global peace, and there are many people advocating non-violence, but there should also be seeds of war planted, to show that it's still hard to make things change.

EDIT: can we please keep the Yves-bashing out of this thread. It's not needed.

pirate1802
08-10-2013, 04:10 AM
They both want Control.

Doesn't mean a thing. They both want control OVER each other and they both hate each other's guts. Why would they even ally? Assassin alliance is more likely than this.

And Frost, any long-running series/franchise can never be fully planned before you start production. Yes, you can have a general idea how this will end, where this will go (which they probably still do for the present AC series) ; but you can never FULLY plan a series before even starting it. There will always be chopping and changing, discarding of ideas, adding new ones, trimming the storyline, accounting for fan reaction etc etc. Its inevitable, and not just for AC. Well unless you are basing your work on a book or something, which already exists and is complete.

Legendz54
08-10-2013, 05:14 AM
Juno is a snake....trolls us all the way from AC2 just so she can get free to enslave mankind.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 05:25 AM
Wasn't Juno an ACB character. Just in the AC2 arc? It was Minerva in AC2.

roostersrule2
08-10-2013, 05:33 AM
Wasn't Juno an ACB character. Just in the AC2 arc? It was Minerva in AC2.Yep.

Hans684
08-10-2013, 09:16 AM
Juno is a rouge AI so she may need more power of some sort, like the cubes that are speculated to be power cubes from ACIVBF.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 11:50 AM
Doesn't mean a thing. They both want control OVER each other and they both hate each other's guts. Why would they even ally? Assassin alliance is more likely than this.

And Frost, any long-running series/franchise can never be fully planned before you start production. Yes, you can have a general idea how this will end, where this will go (which they probably still do for the present AC series) ; but you can never FULLY plan a series before even starting it. There will always be chopping and changing, discarding of ideas, adding new ones, trimming the storyline, accounting for fan reaction etc etc. Its inevitable, and not just for AC. Well unless you are basing your work on a book or something, which already exists and is complete.

Fair enough, but a trilogy that's stretched to be more than that won't have any incoherence? It's like the pace of the game's plot slows down significantly to allow for this stretching of the series.

pirate1802
08-10-2013, 12:33 PM
Fair enough, but a trilogy that's stretched to be more than that won't have any incoherence? It's like the pace of the game's plot slows down significantly to allow for this stretching of the series.

It probably will have, as we can see in AC. But all I'm saying is its unrealistic and sometimes undesirable to plan everything out 100% even before the production starts.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 12:39 PM
It probably will have, as we can see in AC. But all I'm saying is its unrealistic and sometimes undesirable to plan everything out 100% even before the production starts.

But it also is not appropriate to test the elasticity of a trilogy with more than 6 games with the 6th not being even representative of that numbered order. Maybe normally this can work, but I felt Ubisoft tested to the milking of the franchise way too excessively. I won't be unfair though where the modern arc goes cause it's the most exciting plot aspect about the game for me.

pirate1802
08-10-2013, 12:45 PM
But it also is not appropriate to test the elasticity of a trilogy with more than 6 games with the 6th not being even representative of that numbered order. Maybe normally this can work, but I felt Ubisoft tested to the milking of the franchise way too excessively. I won't be unfair though where the modern arc goes cause it's the most exciting plot aspect about the game for me.

I think we are not on the same wavelength. What you are saying is true. AC went through a lot of chopping and changing, change of ideas, dropping of plot points, strething out beyond the original plan etc etc. There's no denying that. Its a hardly ideal way to go about making a franchise. But the total opposite, that everything must be 100% planned out before putting pen to paper is also unrealistic. That's all I'm saying. A certain amount of change from the original plan is inevitable.

ProletariatPleb
08-10-2013, 12:56 PM
I think we are not on the same wavelength. What you are saying is true. AC went through a lot of chopping and changing, change of ideas, dropping of plot points, strething out beyond the original plan etc etc. There's no denying that. Its a hardly ideal way to go about making a franchise. But the total opposite, that everything must be 100% planned out before putting pen to paper is also unrealistic. That's all I'm saying. A certain amount of change from the original plan is inevitable.
They're just making it up as they go! All the plotholes say just that.

Hans684
08-10-2013, 01:06 PM
They're just making it up as they go! All the plotholes say just that.

Funny consider they have an ending more or less ready.

ProletariatPleb
08-10-2013, 01:10 PM
Funny consider they have an ending more or less ready.
You honestly believe that actually means anything?

Hans684
08-10-2013, 01:40 PM
You honestly believe that actually means anything?

It means more the nothing and they have currently 3 AC games at development and the sequal to ACIVBF in Jade's studio. So, does it mean anything?

TheHumanTowel
08-10-2013, 01:44 PM
It means more the nothing and they have currently 3 AC games at development and the sequal to ACIVBF in Jade's studio. So, does it mean anything?
Is that supposed to be a good thing? What that says to me is that they have to coordinate the writing of 3 games which are supposed to be direct sequels to each other and are being written and developed at the same. Which as shown with ACB, ACR and AC3. They're not able to do well.

Hans684
08-10-2013, 01:52 PM
Is that supposed to be a good thing? What that says to me is that they have to coordinate the writing of 3 games which are supposed to be direct sequels to each other and are being written and developed at the same. Which as shown with ACB, ACR and AC3. They're not able to do well.

That means Watch_Dogs, Splinter Cell Blacklist, Splinter Cell(sequal), The Diviston, The Crew, Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag, Assassin's Creed(3 sequals), South Park: The Stic of Trouth and Raymond Legands is all going to fail since a game companie can't write so much stories at he same time.

TheHumanTowel
08-10-2013, 01:56 PM
That means Watch_Dogs, Splinter Cell Blacklist, Splinter Cell(sequal), The Diviston, The Crew, Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag, Assassin's Creed(3 sequals), South Park: The Stic of Trouth and Raymond Legands is all going to fail since a game companie can't write so much stories at he same time.
What a stupid thing to say. Watch Dogs and all the rest of them aren't a part of Assassin's Creed. It's very difficult to write a story that's supposed to be the continuation of a story that is also only being written at the same time and is subject to change. And they're apparently writing 3 at the same time at the moment?

Hans684
08-10-2013, 02:05 PM
The ending of the previous game connects with the begging of the next, then there the ancestor, some TWCB stuff and Moder day at the end of the game that connects with the sequal and if it does well or not is your option. I trust Ubisoft more with the story than fans.

Assassin_M
08-10-2013, 02:13 PM
I trust Ubisoft more with the story than fans.
But...but...we had some better conclusions for Lucy than what Ubisoft did D:

alright hear me out, you know this thing where Juno controls Dessie and makes him stab lucy? that thing called ACB? we all removed her being a Templar from the books (because that would be an over doing. first Masun, then Jamal, then Al-mualim and now Lucy? Pffft) so we thought about Eve. we speculated that Maybe this union with Eve and Dessie is so important that Juno took lucy out of the equation to ensure the passing of the 2 of them through "the gate"....I liked that

Hans684
08-10-2013, 02:29 PM
But...but...we had some better conclusions for Lucy than what Ubisoft did D:

alright hear me out, you know this thing where Juno controls Dessie and makes him stab lucy? that thing called ACB? we all removed her being a Templar from the books (because that would be an over doing. first Masun, then Jamal, then Al-mualim and now Lucy? Pffft) so we thought about Eve. we speculated that Maybe this union with Eve and Dessie is so important that Juno took lucy out of the equation to ensure the passing of the 2 of them through "the gate"....I liked that

I to speculated that Lucy was actually Eve until ACB.

If that happend when she was working at Abstergo and they found out she was an assassin, she would been thrown in the Animus to, then Desmond may not be able to escape. We know how careless Widic can be with subjects(16), for all we know she may have gotten crazy to. And Dessie dead after gotten the map and apple, then the world would have gone under...again.

Assassin_M
08-10-2013, 02:33 PM
I to speculated that Lucy was actually Eve until ACB.
Wait....we`re told about this whole Eve thing in ACB...how did you speculate that she`s Eve UNTIL ACB??

Also I didn't say we speculated that she was Eve...I said we speculated that she had to be killed entirely because she WASN'T eve

Hans684
08-10-2013, 02:50 PM
Wait....we`re told about this whole Eve thing in ACB...how did you speculate that she`s Eve UNTIL ACB??

Also I didn't say we speculated that she was Eve...I said we speculated that she had to be killed entirely because she WASN'T eve

I mean until i hade finished it but i don't remember. May be wrong since it's a long time ago.

dxsxhxcx
08-10-2013, 03:51 PM
in AC4 we'll discover that those "red" (?) things inside the object Edward has are Eve's blood drops and since now we can do whatever we want only having a blood sample of the subject we'll use it to explore Eve's memories and discover a way created by her with the help of Minerva and the others (that predicted Juno's betrayal) to lock Juno again...

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 04:03 PM
in AC4 we'll discover that those "red" (?) things inside the object Edward has are Eve's blood drops and since now we can do whatever we want only having a blood sample of the subject we'll use it to explore Eve's memories and discover a way created by her with the help of Minerva and the others (that predicted Juno's betrayal) to lock Juno again...

Or maybe we'll use the DNA in the blood to view Eve's memories cause it's very difficult to go as far to Eve's memories through normal human subjects. We MUST have her own DNA to view her memories and this is what we shall do.



Or maybe it forms a map like nondairy said.

Assassin_M
08-10-2013, 04:05 PM
are Eve's blood drops.
My head: :rolleyes:
Me: Shut up
My head: ha? ha? haaaa?
Me: No -_-
My head: come on, you know you wanna
Me: feck it..

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 04:08 PM
My head: :rolleyes:
Me: Shut up
My head: ha? ha? haaaa?
Me: No -_-
My head: come on, you know you wanna
Me: feck it..

Juno steals ancient tampons now and squeezes them into glass cubes?


Juno needs new hobbies. She should try fencing :P

Mizuno_zoom
08-10-2013, 04:09 PM
haha

ladyleonhart
08-10-2013, 04:12 PM
Or maybe we'll use the DNA in the blood to view Eve's memories cause it's very difficult to go as far to Eve's memories through normal human subjects. We MUST have her own DNA to view her memories and this is what we shall do.


About the DNA, since there seems to be two individual samples, I was thinking maybe they could belong to Adam and Eve.

Well... probably unlikely, but just a thought. ^_~

pirate1802
08-10-2013, 04:13 PM
M dear, isn't it time?

ProletariatPleb
08-10-2013, 04:17 PM
I trust Ubisoft more with the story than fans.
All those plotholes must be your trust paying off.

pirate1802
08-10-2013, 04:18 PM
About the DNA, since there seems to be two individual samples, I was thinking maybe they could belong to Adam and Eve.

Well... probably unlikely, but just a thought. ^_~

I thought it was a single drop being reflected across two sides..

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 04:20 PM
About the DNA, since there seems to be two individual samples, I was thinking maybe they could belong to Adam and Eve.

Well... probably unlikely, but just a thought. ^_~

Hell, for all we know, these blood samples are more than 2. They can contain the DNA of the entire Rebellion leaders that were alongside Eve.


You guys know what's the best thing about having Eve's own DNA? When you find the memory of a person through their predecessor, you need to start BEFORE the important event in their life (I.e Alta´r finding the apple, Ezio finding the temple and Minerva and Connor burying the medallion). If we have Eve's own DNA, we don't have to play as her for 10 years to find out how she beat the first civ. With her DNA, we can just jump straight into the vital memory where she reveals how she defeated the first civ. Seems plausible.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 04:20 PM
M dear, isn't it time?

That time of the month again?

pirate1802
08-10-2013, 04:22 PM
That time of the month again?

No, time to show us his inner woman by putting a rather gay and colourful sig banner.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 04:23 PM
No, time to show us his inner woman by putting a rather gay and colourful sig banner.

Yup. Your 48 hours are over. Enjoy Silver's blessing for a month.

BandicootBeav
08-10-2013, 04:27 PM
Or maybe we'll use the DNA in the blood to view Eve's memories cause it's very difficult to go as far to Eve's memories through normal human subjects. We MUST have her own DNA to view her memories and this is what we shall do.



Or maybe it forms a map like nondairy said.

Could be, i was thinking this or it could be Juno's DNA and thats what she needs to get her body back. Somehow, i dunno the First Civ did have some crazy tech. She hacks our animus sessions to find its location. Im willing to bet that at least one of us is right!

ACfan443
08-10-2013, 04:28 PM
All those plotholes must be your trust paying off.

Hahaha

Hans684
08-10-2013, 04:33 PM
All those plotholes must be your trust paying off.

Can you make a better story then?
And most of those plot holes are a part of caluations things that can happen or not: ToKW, Desmod's Son, Eve walking with him to "the gate".
Let's say Desmond survived, well if he did. Do you think he would have gotten his son? It's one of all many possibilities.
Ubisoft said they like to have as many possibilities as they can, each plot hole may be finished in an upcoming game or never depends if it is good for the story. And if it is good for the story is a choice by Ubisoft not dissepointed fans.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 04:35 PM
Could be, i was thinking this or it could be Juno's DNA and thats what she needs to get her body back. Somehow, i dunno the First Civ did have some crazy tech. She hacks our animus sessions to find its location. Im willing to bet that at least one of us is right!

Yup. It's someone's blood. Maybe Juno mentions her weakness and we finds that through her memories, but do the first civ actually bleed or can be accessed through normal human technology?

The first civ, the most complex beings on earth, can be accessed by simple human technology? Either they successfully do that, or all hell breaks loose when they try to view her DNA. She enters the Abstergo Database and invades the entirety of human technology. The ultimate rogue AI. Or they just pretty much fail to do it, there's that possibility as well.

dxsxhxcx
08-10-2013, 04:36 PM
Juno steals ancient tampons now and squeezes them into glass cubes?


Juno needs new hobbies. She should try fencing :P

To cater to a more casual audience the next theme discussed in AC will be "parenting during ancient times: how to tell your daughter she won't bleed to death on her first period and how to explain to your son that he isn't having a period but is dying of an unknown disease" :p

parents will love it now, the game will be called Assassims Creed :p

BandicootBeav
08-10-2013, 04:43 PM
Yup. It's someone's blood. Maybe Juno mentions her weakness and we finds that through her memories, but do the first civ actually bleed or can be accessed through normal human technology?

The first civ, the most complex beings on earth, can be accessed by simple human technology? Either they successfully do that, or all hell breaks loose when they try to view her DNA. She enters the Abstergo Database and invades the entirety of human technology. The ultimate rogue AI. Or they just pretty much fail to do it, there's that possibility as well.

They must bleed surely, guess thats never been comfirmed lol. Human tech is doubtful, will probably have to find another First Civ temple or something.
Your second point is also a possibility. I want all hell to break loose in the modern day, i want the world to be somewhat destroyed by Juno. There we could have our end game set in modern day ruined cities fighting her. And somehow all guns are rendered useless :P

salman147
08-10-2013, 04:44 PM
So, in AC3 we learn that Juno was locked inside of device that could contain the conscious mind and memories of someone (or at least someone who was a First Civ), but to be free of containment in this device, it would require someone's life to be given up. Or, at least, that's what I can perceive from the data given to us.

By the end of the game, Desmond dies, and frees Juno from the device, and I assumed that she would have been able to manifest a physical form. But recently, we have learned that right now, Juno is a rogue AI roaming the airwaves.

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/0/01/ACI_Juno.jpg
I assume that in Black Flag, we might be able to see her footprint left behind in Abstergo data, but I don't think we'll have direct interaction with her. At least, not in the optional content. Seeing as the mandatory modern-day gameplay is only 15 minutes, I doubt that we would interact with her much in the mandatory content as well.

I also assume that eventually, she is going to find a way to take a physical form again. I'm curious as to how this will be done. Will she take control of a human? Will she somehow find her "burial spot" and take control of her old body? Will she take control of a robot form (too much like EDI from Mass Effect though)?

More importantly though, how will we stop her?

I have a feeling that Juno will take control of humans who touch the Apple like Al Mualim,Washington,Abbas etc.(Remember they turned evil after using it?Surely Juno's subconscious which was locked away inside the apple corrupted them) those who aren't the descendants of the first civilization unlike Altair,Connor,Ezio,Ed etc.

dxsxhxcx
08-10-2013, 04:44 PM
Can you make a better story then?
And most of those plot holes are a part of caluations things that can happen or not: ToKW, Desmod's Son, Eve walking with him to "the gate".
Let's say Desmond survived, well if he did. Do you think he would have gotten his son? It's one of all many possibilities.
Ubisoft said they like to have as many possibilities as they can, each plot hole may be finished in an upcoming game or never depends if it is good for the story. And if it is good for the story is a choice by Ubisoft not dissepointed fans.

that's just a cheap excuse they found to try to fix the plot holes..

ACfan443
08-10-2013, 04:52 PM
Can you make a better story then?

Don't even start. This is the most annoying and overused response to the criticism of something. It's THEIR responsibility to create an engaging and satisfying story, that's what we pay for.
Also, this 'calculations' crap being used as an excuse to mask bad story telling is just a convenient way for them to not have to develop the plot points they've set up. Seeds are subtle, such as the way Shaun talked about visiting first civ era - the key phrase he used was "what if"
The cluster and the way Shaun blurted out "Phrygian cap, Masonic eye" before a long dramatic pause at the end of ACB were NOT subtle.

I-Like-Pie45
08-10-2013, 04:59 PM
June starts to appear to our new modern day protagonist in dreams. She starts to manipulate him but Minnie finally returns and kills June with a dream gun! Our hero, confused, beats Minnie to death with her own leg and blows everything up, ending AC for good.

ProletariatPleb
08-10-2013, 05:00 PM
Can you make a better story then?
Maybe. Is there supposed to be a point here?



And most of those plot holes are a part of caluations things that can happen or not: ToKW, Desmod's Son, Eve walking with him to "the gate".
Let's say Desmond survived, well if he did. Do you think he would have gotten his son? It's one of all many possibilities.
Ubisoft said they like to have as many possibilities as they can, each plot hole may be finished in an upcoming game or never depends if it is good for the story. And if it is good for the story is a choice by Ubisoft not dissepointed fans.
Calculations? You're talking about "the sun, your son" thingy?


I'm talking about plotholes such as:
There is the AC1 emails saying that Abstergo is not sure about who or what caused the Tunguska explosion.


"Tunguska Incident - Now believed to be the direct result of assault by Assassins. Research station destroyed as was artifact. Alternate wave generation devices have been located in storage, but we have insufficient data at the moment to initiate research. The risk of accident is too high. Lineage Discovery and Acquisition Division should attempt to locate descendants of any attack survivors (either Assassins or Brotherhood) in order to continue research. Resurrecting this particular type of technology will aid us greatly with any holdouts following the Satellite's activation. We're putting together a team to push research in this area."
Meanwhile in The Fall, Abstergo already had Nikolai Orelov's memories as early as 2000 and the assassins were responsible for it. So that's entirely a contradiction.

Then there is one about the Apple.
Ezio's Apple was not the same Apple as the one Alta´r possessed, yet Ezio's Apple was carried from Cyprus to Venice in the same chalice as Alta´r's Apple was held in. AC2 heavily implied that those Apples were one and the same even though Lucy already said in AC1 that Abstergo had Alta´r's Apple but they accidentally destroyed it.

Darby has kind of fixed that by make it that Ezio's Apple came to Cyprus because Alta´r was never in possession of it....yet it was kept in the same chalice which makes it impossible.

Spider_Sith9
08-10-2013, 05:31 PM
But...but...we had some better conclusions for Lucy than what Ubisoft did D:

alright hear me out, you know this thing where Juno controls Dessie and makes him stab lucy? that thing called ACB? we all removed her being a Templar from the books (because that would be an over doing. first Masun, then Jamal, then Al-mualim and now Lucy? Pffft) so we thought about Eve. we speculated that Maybe this union with Eve and Dessie is so important that Juno took lucy out of the equation to ensure the passing of the 2 of them through "the gate"....I liked that

That reminds me, when DID Al-Maulim turn to the Templars. Was it sometime before the game started?

MasterSimaYi
08-10-2013, 05:55 PM
That reminds me, when DID Al-Maulim turn to the Templars. Was it sometime before the game started?

Yes, because Robert de Sable said that it was not nine Templars that found the Apple, but ten. The Templars already found it before the events of the game, and Al Mualim already turned his back on them before the game started too.

ArabianFrost
08-10-2013, 06:10 PM
Yes, because Robert de Sable said that it was not nine Templars that found the Apple, but ten. The Templars already found it before the events of the game, and Al Mualim already turned his back on them before the game started too.

So how did the Assassins allow a Templar to be their leader in the first place? It was always one of those things that were horribly, if at all, explained in the game.

TheHumanTowel
08-10-2013, 06:15 PM
So how did the Assassins allow a Templar to be their leader in the first place? It was always one of those things that were horribly, if at all, explained in the game.
Al Mualim founded the Hashashin. The two groups have been around in some form for a long time before the Crusades but that conflict in AC1 is where they first appeared in their modern forms. I think Altair says something in the codex about how he wonders if Al Mualim didn't just rediscover an order even older than them.

MasterSimaYi
08-10-2013, 06:17 PM
So how did the Assassins allow a Templar to be their leader in the first place? It was always one of those things that were horribly, if at all, explained in the game.

He was an Assassin before he was a Templar, not the other way around. He secretly conspired with the Templars to find the artifact and then take it for himself. In the first Alta´r memory, set in 1189, Al Mualim was searching for the artifact by himself, without the Templars. You can hear Haras, an apprentice who betrayed the Assassins for the Templars, say this dialogue:

"Your time is running out, old man. Tell me what you know of the artifact! Tell me where you are searching for it. It is a small price to pay to preserve what you have built here, no?
Even if you found the artifact, what good would it do you, eh? You have neither the skill nor the breeding to wield its full powers. In your hands it would be a powerful and seductive weapon, yes... but nothing more."

Between 1189 and 1191, Al Mualim fraternized with the Templars behind his followers' backs to obtain the artifact to further his secret corrupt ambition, and then turned on the Templars by taking the artifact for himself; which is what he sent Alta´r, Malik and Kadar to do at the start of AC1.


Al Mualim founded the Hashashin. The two groups have been around in some form for a long time before the Crusades but that conflict in AC1 is where they first appeared in their modern forms. I think Altair says something in the codex about how he wonders if Al Mualim didn't just rediscover an order even older than them.

It was Hassan-i Sabbah who re-founded the Order in the Middle East, he founded it as a public organization. The exact quote from the Codex is "I believe that even we, the Assassins, have simply re-discovered an Order that predates the Old Man himself..."

ProletariatPleb
08-10-2013, 06:18 PM
Al Mualim founded the Hashashin. The two groups have been around in some form for a long time before the Crusades but that conflict in AC1 is where they first appeared in their modern forms. I think Altair says something in the codex about how he wonders if Al Mualim didn't just rediscover an order even older than them.
Hassan i Sabbah founded AFAIK.


So how did the Assassins allow a Templar to be their leader in the first place? It was always one of those things that were horribly, if at all, explained in the game.
He wasn't a Templar, he "became" one later.