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RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 01:52 AM
Hey Everyone,Since some games have given players the choice to engage in homosexual relationships (like Mass Effect and Dragon Age) and even had some secondary characters being gay/lesbian characters that you cannot customize because they are intended to be that way, yet those games cleverly ditched all stereotypes and tossed them into the trash can.

They showed a hero, a solider, a fighter being a human being and feeling love for another man and that didn't reduce his masculinity nor stood in his way of becoming a hero like any other straight character would. Why? because this is how it is. Straight, Gay, Bi, Lesbian are all human beings and they're capable of anything other members of the human race are capable of.So anyway, if Ubisoft decided to introduce a male homo or bisexual assassin, how would you react to that?

Imagine showing that Connor or Ezio have had desires for men in addition to women or a whole new character is bisexual and you have the choice to engage in romance with male or female characters with you (whether its' a brief scene, unrelated to the story, or a choice-based and story-related element).I personally would definitely welcome it because bisexuality and homosexuality are a part of each country whether they support or suppress it and there's nothing wrong with creating an idol who is powerful, brave, strong, fearless and ambitious regardless of what type of partner they choose to be with.

Share your opinions!Note: for memories to be read, genes must transfer to descendants, the ancestor has to have a child or perhaps a memory seal. In this case, they can just show a MaleXMale relationship without specifying that he's gay or bisexual which leaves it open to think that he could've had a baby that he didn't know of in the past or he got married to a woman and had children..etc.

EDIT: Since we have a thread about wanting a female Assassin and everyone’s debating how the games should accurately represent the different parts of society and the different races and genders, I want to bring this discussion up again. I could be wrong, but I believe that people only defend the causes that interest them or relate to them. Women defend women rights, because they’re women. Straight men may want a female Assassin cause they wanna stare at a sexy lady or want a heterosexual male because they can relate. So how about we talk about a cause that deserves recognition just as much as the others, yet people think it’s unnecessary cause they can’t relate?

To be perfectly honest, I think sexuality, race, gender, color and religion are all personal and insignificant matters that are only important the individuals themselves, not the people around them and that there’s no pride nor shame about being straight, gay, bi, black, white, muslim, christian, arab, american..etc. the extraordinary is in what we do, not who we are and I’m against shoving one’s own sexuality, religion, race or gender down everyone’s throats in the name of pride and recognition.

However, I wanted to bring up this discussion since many people seem to be so hypocritical when it comes to talking about human rights, in general. Example when homophobic straight men consider lesbian porn to be hot while they consider gay sex to be a disgusting taboo against nature, and how it makes you less of a man.

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 01:55 AM
...I mean, I don't think the franchise needs to prove anything by adding a gay assassin. But would it hurt? I guess not. There are still many people who are closed minded enough to have a problem with it, so I don't think ubisoft would take the risk.

I-Like-Pie45
07-31-2013, 01:57 AM
Gays are like women, Indians, and pirates.

No-no Assassin territory.

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 01:59 AM
...I mean, I don't think the franchise needs to prove anything by adding a gay assassin. But would it hurt? I guess not. There are still many people who are closed minded enough to have a problem with it, so I don't think ubisoft would take the risk.

I got inspired by Mass Effect since it was a successful franchise and people complained more about the ending and rarely about the type of relationships the character has. It could be something very brief like Christina in ACII or Caterina in AC:B or even something romantic rather than sexual as with Sofia in AC:R.

However, I do agree that some people are still closed-minded when it comes to sex and sexuality, but that's why I suggested it to be minimal because, as you said, there's nothing needs to be proven in this franchise in regards to this matter, just showing that it's a normal part of the assassin's life and it's in no way something that hinders his work or character.


Gays are like women, Indians, and pirates.

No-no Assassin territory.

Yet they did introduce a woman, a pirate and an Indian.

I-Like-Pie45
07-31-2013, 02:01 AM
And those were not Assassin's Creed games.

The only real Assassin's Creed games are those with Ezio in them.

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 02:02 AM
And those were not Assassin's Creed games.

The only real Assassin's Creed games are those with Ezio in them.

...lol...you joking brah?

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 02:03 AM
And those were not Assassin's Creed games.

The only real Assassin's Creed games are those with Ezio in them.

Ezio is and will always be my No.1 assassin. But I'd be lying if I say I didn't enjoy ACIII because it was indeed a good game. Forget the ending, it was still a good story. AC1 was different from ACII, AC:B and AC:R and then ACIII came and it's different as well. ACIII:Liberation didn't feel like a real AC game because it's not on a major console and ACIV:BF is an upcoming game that we need to play in order to judge it's quality.

Rugterwyper32
07-31-2013, 02:05 AM
There's only one issue with that: Unless this character was forced into marriage or something to have a kid or we have some other way of experiencing a character than genetic memories (which has been the basis for the series) I don't see it working. Otherwise, I have no problem. They'd just need to find the way around that one limitation.

I-Like-Pie45
07-31-2013, 02:06 AM
How many notable games in general have had gay characters that you can name?

ProletariatPleb
07-31-2013, 02:07 AM
Ratonhaketonfan, is that you?

Ontopic..errr....no. Bioware gives you a choice, that's good. But I don't want to be 'ramrodded'(puns) into it....unless ofcourse it's part of the character then...I guess I'll have to.

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 02:09 AM
How many notable games in general have had gay characters that you can name?

Why does that matter?

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 02:11 AM
Ratonhaketonfan, is that you?

Ontopic..errr....no. Bioware gives you a choice, that's good. But I don't want to be 'ramrodded'(puns) into it....unless ofcourse it's part of the character then...I guess I'll have to.

Nice...pun......

On topic: I don't want to have to be forced into dealing with anyone'ssexuality...if there is a gay character, whatever...but don't make part of the story ABOUT him struggling with his sexuality...then it's like a fanfic

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 02:12 AM
There's only one issue with that: Unless this character was forced into marriage or something to have a kid or we have some other way of experiencing a character than genetic memories (which has been the basis for the series) I don't see it working. Otherwise, I have no problem. They'd just need to find the way around that one limitation.

Very good point. They can make it as if he was married before or got married later after a relationship with a same-gender character that ended somehow or the lover got killed, maybe. Or perhaps, they can make a bisexual assassin who could've had a kid that he doesn't even know of or he was divorced or whatever... We didn't see Connor have any kids but we assumed that he did eventually which is why he's an ancestor of Desmond's.


How many notable games in general have had gay characters that you can name?

Mass Effect gave you a bisexual character and a choice to engage in a romance with men or women from your crew. Dragon Age, as well.
An older game named Fear Effect had lesbian women and Assassin's Creed noted Leonardo Da Vinci being suitable for his coworker in the Da Vinci Disappearance DLC. Not to mention how AC:B showed incest between Lucrezia and her brother, Cesare.

Even if there only a few games discuss that, it wouldn't be a problem because if it's done well, it will be welcomed.

I-Like-Pie45
07-31-2013, 02:13 AM
Why does that matter?
Because if someone else already did it, AC shouldn't because it proves that they are just jumping on the gay pride sales parade

TheHumanTowel
07-31-2013, 02:14 AM
The ancestor has to be straight to have children and pass on his genes. Other than that I don't really care. Other characters and the modern day protagonist can be whatever they want.

ProletariatPleb
07-31-2013, 02:15 AM
The ancestor has to be straight to have children and pass on his genes. Other than that I don't really care. Other characters and the modern day protagonist can be whatever they want.
Asexual hermits.

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 02:16 AM
Nice...pun......

On topic: I don't want to have to be forced into dealing with anyone'ssexuality...if there is a gay character, whatever...but don't make part of the story ABOUT him struggling with his sexuality...then it's like a fanfic

Yes. I don't think gay people would want that to happen either. From what I've heard they'd also prefer the plot of a film, game etc NOT to revolve around their sexuality.

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 02:18 AM
Because if someone else already did it, AC shouldn't because it proves that they are just jumping on the gay pride sales parade

You have to be joking. You...you just HAVE to be joking right now.

Ubisoft: "we want the world to turn gay so let's sell them a game with a gay character to brainwashing them into becoming gay!"

No. Those companies created games with gay characters to acknowledge their ACCEPTANCE of gay people. It was very brave of them. They did it to protect insecure gays against close minded idiots like you ;)

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 02:18 AM
Because if someone else already did it, AC shouldn't because it proves that they are just jumping on the gay pride sales parade

If it jumped on the straight-pride and threesome pride sales parade, then why not this? it's not like games won't show sex anymore because AC or Heavy Rain did.


Ratonhaketonfan, is that you?

Ontopic..errr....no. Bioware gives you a choice, that's good. But I don't want to be 'ramrodded'(puns) into it....unless ofcourse it's part of the character then...I guess I'll have to.

Actually, Ezio is my No.1, not Ratonhnhake:ton ;)
Well, Bioware did put Steve Cortez who is gay and that wasn't something customizable. But it neither felt forced nor the game or the story revolved around the idea. It was just there, like skin color, voice tone, ethnicity/race..etc.


Nice...pun......

On topic: I don't want to have to be forced into dealing with anyone'ssexuality...if there is a gay character, whatever...but don't make part of the story ABOUT him struggling with his sexuality...then it's like a fanfic

Of course, I agree with you about this. I wouldn't want a game that discusses the psychological and social side of sexuality but just introduce it as a normal matter like they have characters from different races and skin colors and nationalities. Mass Effect did it perfectly, because regardless of whom you choose to date, you get to have different romance moments and commentary from others (not like the same line copied and pasted) but also it felt very natural and not being the center of the attention but just a side that was addressed.

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 02:19 AM
Asexual hermits.

Dendrophiliac hippies

ProletariatPleb
07-31-2013, 02:20 AM
You have to be joking. You...you just HAVE to be joking right now.

Ubisoft: "we want the world to turn gay so let's sell them a game with a gay character to brainwashing them into becoming gay!"

No. Those companies created games with gay characters to acknowledge their ACCEPTANCE of gay people. It was very brave of them. They did it to protect insecure gays against close minded idiots like you ;)
Lol that's not what he meant.

He just meant that they would appear as if they're just trying to look like a company that is LGBT friendly or trying to cash in on being diverse.

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 02:21 AM
If it jumped on the straight-pride and threesome pride sales parade, then why not this? it's not like games won't show sex anymore because AC or Heavy Rain did.



Actually, Ezio is my No.1, not Ratonhnhake:ton ;)
Well, Bioware did put Steve Cortez who is gay and that wasn't something customizable. But it neither felt forced nor the game or the story revolved around the idea. It was just there, like skin color, voice tone, ethnicity/race..etc.



Of course, I agree with you about this. I wouldn't want a game that discusses the psychological and social side of sexuality but just introduce it as a normal matter like they have characters from different races and skin colors and nationalities. Mass Effect did it perfectly, because regardless of whom you choose to date, you get to have different romance moments and commentary from others (not like the same line copied and pasted) but also it felt very natural and not being the center of the attention but just a side that was addressed.

Right. Sexuality has never been a big part of AC. It has just been...there, as part of the character. But it should not be a part of the story

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 02:21 AM
Lol that's not what he meant.

He just meant that they would appear as if they're just trying to look like a company that is LGBT friendly or trying to cash in on being diverse.

So what if they are lgbt friendly?

ProletariatPleb
07-31-2013, 02:23 AM
Actually, Ezio is my No.1, not Ratonhnhake:ton ;)
Well, Bioware did put Steve Cortez who is gay and that wasn't something customizable. But it neither felt forced nor the game or the story revolved around the idea. It was just there, like skin color, voice tone, ethnicity/race..etc.
It was reference to a 'former member' who had ideas of having a gay assassin and a physically disabled assassin and kept saying Ubisoft isn't giving AC enough dievrsity...

Moving on, yes they did but it wasn't forced it was a choice I, Shepard could make or I could get involved with Ashley, Asai, jellyfish? Well you get the point.


So what if they are lgbt friendly?
Nothing? I mean as in trying to 'look' when not actually being is how it would appear to some is what Pie probably meant.

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 02:23 AM
Yes. I don't think gay people would want that to happen either. From what I've heard they'd also prefer the plot of a film, game etc NOT to revolve around their sexuality.

If it's introduced in a very natural and spontaneous way, nobody would feel annoyed by it. The game will not revolve around sex or sexuality. You cannot call a game or a film "revolving around sexuality and sex" when you see two people kissing briefly in a scene (whether they're straight or gay) because when it's done in a way that it doesn't look forced or out of place, it will be welcomed and admired like when you see any two people kissing in a film in comparison to X-Rated sex scenes in some horror movies when they just feel forced to get sales.


The ancestor has to be straight to have children and pass on his genes. Other than that I don't really care. Other characters and the modern day protagonist can be whatever they want.

I said it before and I'll say it again. They can be bisexual. The ancestor could've had a baby that he doesn't even know of or he could've had a son/daughter in the future, outside the timeline of the game or perhaps told later, in another game.


It was reference to a 'former member' who had ideas of having a gay assassin and a physically disabled assassin and kept saying Ubisoft isn't giving AC enough dievrsity...

Moving on, yes they did but it wasn't forced it was a choice I, Shepard could make or I could get involved with Ashley, Asai, jellyfish? Well you get the point.

Yes. It was a choice but on the other hand, the idea of Asari people being all feminine yet able to engage one another was unavoidable and also Steve Cortez's mentions of his husband were not something you choose to change. So, some stuff like that can be added into the AC universe that way. I guess there's nothing wrong with seeing two men kissing or sharing a 'look of love' to one another. Everybody can accept a guy kissing a girl and even applaud for it, so why not two guys?

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 02:25 AM
If it's introduced in a very natural and spontaneous way, nobody would feel annoyed by it. The game will not revolve around sex or sexuality. You cannot call a game or a film "revolving around sexuality and sex" when you see two people kissing briefly in a scene (whether they're straight or gay) because when it's done in a way that it doesn't look forced or out of place, it will be welcomed and admired like when you see any two people kissing in a film in comparison to X-Rated sex scenes in some horror movies when they just feel forced to get sales.



I said it before and I'll say it again. They can be bisexual. The ancestor could've had a baby that he doesn't even know of or he could've had a son/daughter in the future, outside the timeline of the game or perhaps told later, in another game.

What about 18th century sperm banks?

I-Like-Pie45
07-31-2013, 02:26 AM
What we need is an Assassin who doesn't have tacked on character traits like homosexuality but an Assassin with meaningful traits that develop them as characters.

Like breast cancer.

Can we give Edward breast cancer in AC5, Mr. Shade?

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 02:27 AM
What about 18th century sperm banks?

LOL. Another possibility :P


What we need is an Assassin who doesn't have tacked on character traits like homosexuality but an Assassin with meaningful traits that develop them as characters.

Like breast cancer.

Can we give Edward breast cancer in AC5, Mr. Shade?

Homosexual and Bisexual people can also have meaningful traits. They can be gay and be heroes, well built, strong-willed, determined and contribute to global causes and be just as good as any other assassin. Though I'm sure you're just joking here, but if we had a female assassin, they might give her such a disease and have it be some sort of motive for her in some way, but not Edward.

ACfan443
07-31-2013, 02:35 AM
Looking at the thread title instantly reminded me of RatonhnhakéFan, he pretty much campaigned for this. Wonder where he's gone...

Anyway, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but the ancestor will need some way of passing his genes down, otherwise we won't be able to view their memories. (Memory seals would be a way around this, although there's probably a limit to how much you can store).

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 02:35 AM
LOL. Another possibility :P



Homosexual and Bisexual people can also have meaningful traits. They can be gay and be heroes, well built, strong-willed, determined and contribute to global causes and be just as good as any other assassin. Though I'm sure you're just joking here, but if we had a female assassin, they might give her such a disease and have it be some sort of motive for her in some way, but not Edward.
He's joking about the cancer part...but I'm not sure about the other part

ProletariatPleb
07-31-2013, 02:36 AM
Looking at the thread title instantly reminded me of RatonhnhakéFan
Pretty much.

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 02:41 AM
Ok. I get that some people have seen this thread similar to some other member's thread before but I've never heard of the trailer nor known the member and I have no intentions to plagiarize his/her work so I don't understand the point of these remarks.

Back on topic,
Regarding "passing the genes", they can give us a bisexual character. Let's give an example, Ezio had an affair with Da Vinci, then he ended up marrying Sofia, the story shows the affair and we'll think he's gay but that doesn't alter the fact that he did get married to a woman later and a had a baby or perhaps Caterina got pregnant from him before and had a baby who passed the genes on. Memory Seals also work, like a fellow member said.

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 02:53 AM
Ok. I get that some people have seen this thread similar to some other member's thread before but I've never heard of the trailer nor known the member and I have no intentions to plagiarize his/her work so I don't understand the point of these remarks.

Back on topic,
Regarding "passing the genes", they can give us a bisexual character. Let's give an example, Ezio had an affair with Da Vinci, then he ended up marrying Sofia, the story shows the affair and we'll think he's gay but that doesn't alter the fact that he did get married to a woman later and a had a baby or perhaps Caterina got pregnant from him before and had a baby who passed the genes on. Memory Seals also work, like a fellow member said.

You just put a completely insane and messed up picture in my head

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 02:54 AM
You just put a completely insane and messed up picture in my head

It was just an example, hehe :P
Replace character names with X,Y,Z and make them random men and women. LOL.

Wolfmeister1010
07-31-2013, 02:55 AM
It was just an example, hehe :P
Replace character names with X,Y,Z and make them random men and women. LOL.

...nope, can't get the pic out

LoyalACFan
07-31-2013, 04:02 AM
I'd be fine with a gay/lesbian/bisexual protagonist in any other game, but for AC, a series in which literally every protagonist HAS to find a partner of the opposite sex for the Animus plot device to work, it would feel... contrived. Yeah, you could go the bisexual route, but... why? If we know every male protagonist has to eventually wind up with a female anyway (and vice-versa), I don't really see that it would add anything to the plot.

Besides, I don't really think the character's sex life needs to be at the forefront of the story anyway...

Edit- and also, like others have said, I wouldn't want the character grappling with their sexuality to be a major plot point, but since homosexuality was historically (and in some cases, still is) taboo in most locations where AC would take place, it would feel weird if the character was just randomly OK with being gay when they most likely would have been considered evil or perverted by society.

OSantaClownO
07-31-2013, 04:17 AM
I think It could be great to open some of the close-minded.
Plus, in the right period I can easily see an homosexual assassin or templar each with their own reasons.

Also.. Leonadrdo da Vinci.

About passing the genes... Lets say you would play X, and then X loves Y , yet he gets Z to have babies with, in that way X and Y live happily together with Z and X kids. The end.

LoyalACFan
07-31-2013, 04:32 AM
About passing the genes... Lets say you would play X, and then X loves Y , yet he gets Z to have babies with, in that way X and Y live happily together with Z and X kids. The end.

That would be absolutely ridiculous in a historical context. The moment I play an AC game set earlier than the 20th century with a surrogate parent for a homosexual couple... I'm done.

SleezeRocker
07-31-2013, 04:34 AM
As long as there aren't any scenes or make outs I guess I'd say I'd be alright with it. and like Wolfmeister said, if the story revolves about their sexuality and what it's like etc then it will be a snooze fest. If it's a part of their character and is shown passively (like Leo Davinci) then i'd be alright.

OSantaClownO
07-31-2013, 04:36 AM
That would be absolutely ridiculous in a historical context. The moment I play an AC game set earlier than the 20th century with a surrogate parent for a homosexual couple... I'm done.

Z doesn't have to know about the fact X is homosexual, X can easily steal the baby or murder Z.

I would also like to add that AC series didn't have a lot of sex / making out scenes, if a homosexual enters the game I expect it to be the same. If the scene isn't necessary like Caterina & Ezio, and Haytham & Zio scenes. I don't want them.

FR0ZENZiNE
07-31-2013, 04:38 AM
I think we already had one.
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/866088413184127251/A9723A89B30E16533FD4546538F7541BF71F76CF/1024x576.resizedimage

LoyalACFan
07-31-2013, 04:43 AM
Z doesn't have to know about the fact X is homosexual, X can easily steal the baby or murder Z.

So... he seduces a woman, conceives a child, then kidnaps it and kills her. Sounds like a swell dude...

This would be even worse.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 05:01 AM
...lol...you joking brah?

So many people miss sarcasm these days...

Ontopic: IF there is a good story-based reason for the said character to be homosexual, and its done in a mature way I'd be fine with it. However if they are pushing for a gay character just to pander to the gay fanbase then nope. What I mean, is the whole thing should feel natural and not reek of pandering. Talking of Bioware, I really hate how to fill in the lesbian/gay characters just to give the said community something to play with. But then again, even the straight romances in their games are playthings afterall.. without any serious reason to exist. :rolleyes:

OSantaClownO
07-31-2013, 05:09 AM
So... he seduces a woman, conceives a child, then kidnaps it and kills her. Sounds like a swell dude...

This would be even worse.

You make it sound directly and obvious.
Stealing the baby or murdering the partner were just possible options.

No need to seduce or nothing.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 05:10 AM
I dislike over excessive sex or flirting. straight or gay. I don`t care as long as it`s not "Oh..you have sexy ***, messere/madonna" every 5 minutes

I-Like-Pie45
07-31-2013, 05:16 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if RatonhnhakeFan and AirPrince were the exact same person

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 05:19 AM
Speaking of which, where did RatonhnhakeFan go? Don't see him at all these days..

Jexx21
07-31-2013, 05:27 AM
Pirate I beat Bioshock Infinite.

Oh, and only the NPCs (or Modern day protagonist) should be homosexual. Why not have Adewale be gay. He can be all like "Edward, I wanna sail my ship to your booty."

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 05:30 AM
"Edward, I wanna sail my ship to your booty."

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BAL-HJ5ufqI/UD1uuBX4d3I/AAAAAAAAACw/QwLljO-e2Hs/s400/Yao+Ming+Scared.jpg

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 05:31 AM
Oh and good thing you beat it. Hope my efforts to shield you from..that.. spoiler was worth it. :|

Jexx21
07-31-2013, 05:33 AM
Yea, not really.

Get on steam you fool.

TheOnlyEzio
07-31-2013, 06:12 AM
I wouldn't care.

ProletariatPleb
07-31-2013, 06:27 AM
Oh and good thing you beat it. Hope my efforts to shield you from..that.. spoiler was worth it. :|
RAPTURE! Return to the only setting worth returning to!

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 06:34 AM
RAPTURE! Return to the only setting worth returning to!

I'm rupturing with joy already..

Jexx21
07-31-2013, 06:37 AM
why you leave steam. you're my only source of real time chatting

..okay not really

btw, totally seeing a city in space or underground for the next BioShock -_-

ProletariatPleb
07-31-2013, 06:39 AM
btw, totally seeing a city in space or underground for the next BioShock -_-
Assuming there is one...

roostersrule2
07-31-2013, 06:49 AM
I'd laugh.

Legendz54
07-31-2013, 06:56 AM
I would feel awkward.

GunnarGunderson
07-31-2013, 07:15 AM
I'm sure someone's said it already, but a gay assassin wouldn't really work what with the genetic memory thing.


And just like being straight, being gay wouldn't contribute to their character at all and would probably come off as complete pandering

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 07:25 AM
And just like being straight, being gay wouldn't contribute to their character at all and would probably come off as complete pandering

That is my concern as well..

Jexx21
07-31-2013, 07:34 AM
pirate... stay on steam...

OSantaClownO
07-31-2013, 07:46 AM
I'm sure someone's said it already, but a gay assassin wouldn't really work what with the genetic memory thing.


And just like being straight, being gay wouldn't contribute to their character at all and would probably come off as complete pandering

Well I can easily see a Gay Templar story.
Solves the genetic memory "thing" too.

Spider_Sith9
07-31-2013, 07:56 AM
I wouldn't mind.

Black_Widow9
07-31-2013, 08:05 AM
Let's keep the discussion of others out of this Topic or I'm locking it.
Thanks

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 08:45 AM
I would not want Assassin's Creed to become a love story and engage the character in romance. As for the character's sexual orientation, it doesn't bother me, but I don't think that they should flaunt it in any case. Then I don't see why we would need to go into that much detail. Yes, their relationships are important as far as telling us how the bloodline was carried on, which needs to be implemented in some way. That would be the key relationship, so why do I need to know about the character's other desires, etc.? Also, I know you said it would be a choice, but if there are plenty of games that already do this, why does it need to be part of AC? Basically, I play Assassin's Creed for the story regarding the Assassin's VS Templars (i.e. their conflict, their differences and similarities). Also, the assassin's journey to becoming a hero, etc. Also, Ezio's promiscuity is probably one of the reasons I didn't like him as much. For me, his excessive flirting really didn't add anything at all to his character. From what I read about AC: Brotherhood, it actually put me off trying to play it. Even if it was only a small part of it, it didn't make me want to play it. Also, I enjoyed ACII, but I felt moments like that made me appreciate his character less. Then, I wouldn't really want it to become a larger focus in AC, regardless of their sexual orientation and I dislike over-sexualisation in any case. And yes, I know it will be part of ACIV, but it is to portray the era and the pirate character. Also, Edward does get married twice. Then, I am interested in how his character develops and why he makes the choices he makes and how he becomes a better man.

shobhit7777777
07-31-2013, 11:02 AM
IDGAF who the Assassin character bonks...as long as he/she is well written and compelling.

MuddledMuppet2
07-31-2013, 11:02 AM
I wouldn't want a gay main character.

Not because of any problems with anyone being gay, but because of how i would see ubi handling the character.

I think the main reason that AC3 had such a shallow one dimensional character was every line of dialogue was examined to make sure it wouldn't 'offend' anyone, therefore the character couldn't have any negative aspects as that could be construed as politically incorrect to native americans. The same kind of writing would happen if a gay character was introduced.

Characters only become 'real' and meaningful to us when we are exposed to their faults as well their positive attributes, all people are a mix of both, and characterisation that only shows positive attributes are doomed to leave the player/reader/viewer feeling unattached, distanced and disappointed. we need to know their frailties and how they deal with them to have any empathy.

This is why older characters tend to be more interesting, they've been around the block enough to make mistakes, have regrets that inform their future actions.

I don't need to be tld that native americans have positive attributes, it's insulting to the intelligence to portray a charecter who only ever does the right thing, to feel the 'right' emotion, to only have justifiable anger. I don't need a game to tell me that gays are human too, I can figure that out for myself.

If a gay character was presented in such a way that his/her sexuality actually had meaning within the story, and was untainted by political correctness, I could go for that, but I doubt that would happen. If the devs wanted to show support for LGBT people by putting in a minor character in a positive light, that wouldn't be a problem for me, but why stop there?

What about a female lead? An atheist/humanist lead? Deaf? Mute? Mental health disorder? Why not show true religious diversity and include people being killed for aposty? Imprisoned for being gay? Put in prison for being raped? All stuff that is happening today and as equally a valid subject to deal with as LBGT rights.

Gaming as a medium isn't ready for such even-handed & mature politicisation, until it is I'd rather not have politicisation at all, and let games allow players to run around killing stuff and being a badass.

ArabianFrost
07-31-2013, 11:10 AM
Would I mind it? No.

Would it be financially sane? Absolutely not.

The AC games aren't there to fight for someone's personal beliefs. It's there to tell a historical story. A move like this just seems over the top.

Spider_Sith9
07-31-2013, 11:10 AM
I wouldn't want a gay main character.

Not because of any problems with anyone being gay, but because of how i would see ubi handling the character.

I think the main reason that AC3 had such a shallow one dimensional character was every line of dialogue was examined to make sure it wouldn't 'offend' anyone, therefore the character couldn't have any negative aspects as that could be construed as politically incorrect to native americans. The same kind of writing would happen if a gay character was introduced.

Characters only become 'real' and meaningful to us when we are exposed to their faults as well their positive attributes, all people are a mix of both, and characterisation that only shows positive attributes are doomed to leave the player/reader/viewer feeling unattached, distanced and disappointed. we need to know their frailties and how they deal with them to have any empathy.

This is why older characters tend to be more interesting, they've been around the block enough to make mistakes, have regrets that inform their future actions.

I don't need to be tld that native americans have positive attributes, it's insulting to the intelligence to portray a charecter who only ever does the right thing, to feel the 'right' emotion, to only have justifiable anger. I don't need a game to tell me that gays are human too, I can figure that out for myself.

If a gay character was presented in such a way that his/her sexuality actually had meaning within the story, and was untainted by political correctness, I could go for that, but I doubt that would happen. If the devs wanted to show support for LGBT people by putting in a minor character in a positive light, that wouldn't be a problem for me, but why stop there?

What about a female lead? An atheist/humanist lead? Deaf? Mute? Mental health disorder? Why not show true religious diversity and include people being killed for aposty? Imprisoned for being gay? Put in prison for being raped? All stuff that is happening today and as equally a valid subject to deal with as LBGT rights.

Gaming as a medium isn't ready for such even-handed & mature politicisation, until it is I'd rather not have politicisation at all, and let games allow players to run around killing stuff and being a badass.

Connor was VERY flawed and no one liked him.

Also people no longer want Power Fantasies. And when those fantasies are deconstructed, people will complain about that too. Raiden being a main example.

Though I would enjoy playing as a handicapped protagonist. :)


Would I mind it? No.

Would it be financially sane? Absolutely not.

The AC games aren't there to fight for someone's personal beliefs. It's there to tell a historical story. A move like this just seems over the top.

Originally, it was about stabbing dudes in the jugular and killing them. :) And then milking happened and no Modern Day, Firearms or Trilogy happened.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 11:17 AM
I wouldn't want a gay main character.

Not because of any problems with anyone being gay, but because of how i would see ubi handling the character.

I think the main reason that AC3 had such a shallow one dimensional character was every line of dialogue was examined to make sure it wouldn't 'offend' anyone, therefore the character couldn't have any negative aspects as that could be construed as politically incorrect to native americans. The same kind of writing would happen if a gay character was introduced.

Characters only become 'real' and meaningful to us when we are exposed to their faults as well their positive attributes, all people are a mix of both, and characterisation that only shows positive attributes are doomed to leave the player/reader/viewer feeling unattached, distanced and disappointed. we need to know their frailties and how they deal with them to have any empathy.

This is why older characters tend to be more interesting, they've been around the block enough to make mistakes, have regrets that inform their future actions.

I don't need to be tld that native americans have positive attributes, it's insulting to the intelligence to portray a charecter who only ever does the right thing, to feel the 'right' emotion, to only have justifiable anger. I don't need a game to tell me that gays are human too, I can figure that out for myself.

If a gay character was presented in such a way that his/her sexuality actually had meaning within the story, and was untainted by political correctness, I could go for that, but I doubt that would happen. If the devs wanted to show support for LGBT people by putting in a minor character in a positive light, that wouldn't be a problem for me, but why stop there?

What about a female lead? An atheist/humanist lead? Deaf? Mute? Mental health disorder? Why not show true religious diversity and include people being killed for aposty? Imprisoned for being gay? Put in prison for being raped? All stuff that is happening today and as equally a valid subject to deal with as LBGT rights.

Gaming as a medium isn't ready for such even-handed & mature politicisation, until it is I'd rather not have politicisation at all, and let games allow players to run around killing stuff and being a badass.
Altair was an Atheist.

Your view is quite wrong. While it is true that Connor was handled with more care due to Native American consultants, he was not shown in overly positive light. (him being one dimensional is your opinion, I wont comment on it) quite the opposite in fact, he was the only Assassin so far to fail in one of his quests, he was naive, he was arrogant and he was sometimes cocky. he was a paragon of righteousness, but he HAD flaws...I didn't feel as if he was shown without a single negative trait. that`s just wrong.

based on what`s said above, your concerns are quite hollow. Altair, an atheist, had his flaws and was portrayed extremely well imo. Connor, a Native american, had his flaws and was also portrayed well imo.

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 11:19 AM
I would not want Assassin's Creed to become a love story and engage the character in romance. As for the character's sexual orientation, it doesn't bother me, but I don't think that they should flaunt it in any case. Then I don't see why we would need to go into that much detail. Yes, their relationships are important as far as telling us how the bloodline was carried on, which needs to be implemented in some way. That would be the key relationship, so why do I need to know about the character's other desires, etc.? Also, I know you said it would be a choice, but if there are plenty of games that already do this, why does it need to be part of AC? Basically, I play Assassin's Creed for the story regarding the Assassin's VS Templars (i.e. their conflict, their differences and similarities). Also, the assassin's journey to becoming a hero, etc. Also, Ezio's promiscuity is probably one of the reasons I didn't like him as much. For me, his excessive flirting really didn't add anything at all to his character. From what I read about AC: Brotherhood, it actually put me off trying to play it. Even if it was only a small part of it, it didn't make me want to play it. Also, I enjoyed ACII, but I felt moments like that made me appreciate his character less. Then, I wouldn't really want it to become a larger focus in AC, regardless of their sexual orientation and I dislike over-sexualisation in any case. And yes, I know it will be part of ACIV, but it is to portray the era and the pirate character. Also, Edward does get married twice. Then, I am interested in how his character develops and why he makes the choices he makes and how he becomes a better man.
My thoughts EXACTLY.

I also agree with the overly-flirty Ezio. I just couldn't go ahead and fully like him simply because of that. And I tried. Hard.


I also agree with these quotes especially:


I think the main reason that AC3 had such a shallow one dimensional character was every line of dialogue was examined to make sure it wouldn't 'offend' anyone, therefore the character couldn't have any negative aspects as that could be construed as olitically incorrect to native americans. The same kind of writing would happen if a gay character was introduced.
Even though I don't see Connor as 1D character - on the contrary. He just appeared to be 1D because of the limitations he faced as a character (trying not to be offensive to Native Americans). That's a LOT of limitations. So having a gay main character any time soon could face similar limitations. And then you will get a character that will appear 1D (even if it is not the case). And everyone will hate him...

I agree that the mainstream game industry (at least in the West) is not ready yet to create such a complex gay game character. (In Asian countries I'm led to believe such games are quite common, but they're mainly catered to straight female gamers I think... And they still fall into stereotypes).

pacmanate
07-31-2013, 11:40 AM
Choice = Good.
No Choice = Bad.

Same with stealth.

Option for stealth = Good
Forced stealth = Bad

Besides, I could have pretended Connor was a homo. He didnt have any woman contact at all.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 11:46 AM
Besides, I could have pretended Connor was a homo. He didnt have any woman contact at all.

This will be my headcanon henceforth.

MasterSimaYi
07-31-2013, 11:52 AM
This discussion again? :| I thought this series was about intrigue, conspiracies, and ancient artifacts, not about the need to represent every group of people.

However, I certainly would not mind a homosexual or bisexual, but it would be too much hassle to do this for the protagonist. The OP said that he could have had a baby he did not know of in the past. That is not possible, any memories after conception are not passed on. Unless he intended for an off-screen homosexual relationship, it would not be possible. If we were to see it in a game, the child would have to be conceived afterward. This would either mean that he turned straight later on in his life, which I figure would be a bit of an insult to the character and gay people, or he conceived a child for the sake of conceiving a child. Both options would draw too much attention to them, in my opinion, for the story not to revolve around homosexuality.

Memory Seals are most definitely not an option, unless the protagonist could somehow get his hands on hundreds of them and the person reliving the memories would not mind going through all of them. A Memory Seal does not record a person's entire life, it only records a specific memory. Freeroam would not be an option.

While I don't really see the need to emphasize the existence of homosexual or bisexual Assassins because they're most certainly there, I would not mind seeing them in the games, novels or comics. But in case of the protagonist, I see too many story issues for it to work out properly. When you have to write your way around previously established canon, it rarely turns out good.


Also, the choice to either be straight or gay would be in complete contradiction to genetic memory as well, and would simply not be possible for this universe. I wouldn't want AC to turn into an RPG anyway. If I wanted to play an RPG, I wouldn't be playing AC.

Moultonborough
07-31-2013, 11:53 AM
Seriously? Did everyone forget the beginning of every game? It's been there From AC to AC III Here let me remind you....“This game was developed by a multicultural team of various faiths and beliefs.” I don't think they give a **** if they make a gay Assassin or not. That single sentence screams diversity. I wouldn't care at all if we had a gay Assassin, I don't see anything wrong with the possibility.

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 11:56 AM
Besides, I could have pretended Connor was a homo. He didnt have any woman contact at all.


This will be my headcanon henceforth.

Connor is not impressed.

http://s24.postimg.org/ih2olvywh/tumblr_inline_mip5ir_Mg_Q01qz4rgp.png

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 11:57 AM
Connor is not impressed.

http://s24.postimg.org/ih2olvywh/tumblr_inline_mip5ir_Mg_Q01qz4rgp.png

What's wrong with being gay? :(

pacmanate
07-31-2013, 11:59 AM
Connor is not impressed.

http://s24.postimg.org/ih2olvywh/tumblr_inline_mip5ir_Mg_Q01qz4rgp.png

I thought that was his happy face?

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 11:59 AM
What's wrong with being gay? :(
Nothing at all. I thought you made fun of Connor and you used the "homo" as an insult just because there was no romance in the game.

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 12:02 PM
Just because they don't show a character hitting on every woman they see (like some that shall remain unnamed), doesn't automatically mean that they are gay.

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 12:03 PM
Just because they don't show a character hitting on every woman they see (like some that shall remain unnamed), doesn't automatically mean that they are gay.
Thank you! I've seen this thrown as an insult to Connor quite a lot. This is sad...

(not that "gay" should be an insult in the FIRST place...)

Spider_Sith9
07-31-2013, 12:05 PM
Nothing at all. I thought you made fun of Connor and you used the "homo" as an insult just because there was no romance in the game.

Honestly, I kinda hate the "Connor is a Virgin" as canon in people's minds. It was a freakin' joke from Noah and Hutch said on the podcast. If that was true, how did Desmond get their? People guys seem to forget we never seen the rest of his life.

People ACTUALLY believe he's a Virgin *scoffs*


Thank you! I've seen this thrown as an insult to Connor quite a lot. This is sad...

(not that "gay" should be an insult in the FIRST place...)

1. Ezio.

2. Ben.

3. Unaffected + Podcast being spreaded out everywhere = He's a Virgin is now canon.

On a side note, I remember someone saying him flipping Norris was rude. The think about Connor is that he hates being touched. It's not uncommon. Just because he hates being touched does not mean he's not close to the Homesteaders.

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 12:06 PM
Honestly, I kinda hate the "Connor is a Virgin" as canon in people's minds. It was a freakin' joke from Noah and Hutch said on the podcast. If that was true, how did Desmond get their? People guys seem to forget we never seen the rest of his life.

People ACTUALLY believe he's a Virgin *scoffs*

I know right!?? It was obviously a joke. (And why should he be insulted even if he was a virgin at first?? Different times, different cultures...)

roostersrule2
07-31-2013, 12:09 PM
Honestly, I kinda hate the "Connor is a Virgin" as canon in people's minds. It was a freakin' joke from Noah and Hutch said on the podcast. If that was true, how did Desmond get their? People guys seem to forget we never seen the rest of his life.

People ACTUALLY believe he's a Virgin *scoffs*



1. Ezio.

2. Ben.

3. Unaffected + Podcast being spreaded out everywhere = He's a Virgin is now canon.

On a side note, I remember someone saying him flipping Norris was rude. The think about Connor is that he hates being touched. It's not uncommon. Just because he hates being touched does not mean he's not close to the Homesteaders.He is.

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 12:09 PM
@ Spider_Sith9: Agreed. Connor had to continue the bloodline at some point. As you said, we just don't know much about it yet.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 12:10 PM
Nothing at all. I thought you made fun of Connor and you used the "homo" as an insult just because there was no romance in the game.

Nah, I was not insulting him, I was just making an observation. That it was possible to look at him both ways because the game doesn't show his preference one way or the other. But lets drop this and return to the topic. Being gay is nothing to be ashamed of.

Spider_Sith9
07-31-2013, 12:11 PM
I know right!?? It was obviously a joke. (And why should he be insulted even if he was a virgin at first?? Different times, different cultures...)

Doesn't help the fact that he got his britches in a bunch when he seen that woman and Achilles telling him not to stare. :) He was a Fish out of Water is all.

When I was young, I really enjoyed the legs of certain celebs. Most of the time I loved Neko and Aniime Girls and drawings in general. Oh Summer~ <3

I wish I didn't read certain things I did though. :(

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 12:12 PM
On a side note, I remember someone saying him flipping Norris was rude. The think about Connor is that he hates being touched. It's not uncommon. Just because he hates being touched does not mean he's not close to the Homesteaders.
I have read about Native American history and being touched was at times not accepted. It's the same thing as not showing emotion when you're a Native warrior. It was perceived as great weakness.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 12:13 PM
He was actually starting at the asses of the men who were walking in front of the women.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 12:14 PM
Connor flipped Norris, because he was running at him. he`s vigilant at all times, not because he didn't like to be touched. did no one notice this?? Yes, he doesn't like to be touched, but he wouldn't flip his friend over for it..

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 12:18 PM
Nah, I was not insulting him, I was just making an observation. That it was possible to look at him both ways because the game doesn't show his preference one way or the other. But lets drop this and return to the topic. Being gay is nothing to be ashamed of.

Of course being gay ISN'T anything to be ashamed of. A person's sexual orientation is their personal choice and preference.

As for Connor, I didn't feel that he was portrayed as being gay. I think people compared him to Ezio who was promiscuous. Then because they didn't focus on Connor's love life, people assumed he just wasn't interested in women. When in actual fact, Connor was asked at the Homestead about if he would marry and settle down anytime soon. Connor explained that he would one day, but at that time it wouldn't be fair to have a wife because he wouldn't have enough time to give her because of the more pressing Templar threat.

Spider_Sith9
07-31-2013, 12:20 PM
Connor flipped Norris, because he was running at him. he`s vigilant at all times, not because he didn't like to be touched. did no one notice this?? Yes, he doesn't like to be touched, but he wouldn't flip his friend over for it..

And yelling! AC2 had humor. Why not AC3? Not to mention he was a Guerilla at the time for the Continental Army. Shamefully, he was guillible enough to think an old tech could make him fly. xD

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 12:23 PM
Of course being gay ISN'T anything to be ashamed of. A person's sexual orientation is their personal choice and preference.

As for Connor, I didn't feel that he was portrayed as being gay.

No, I never said that. I said that he was portrayed as without any kind of strong sexual preference one way or other. Thats all.


When in actual fact, Connor was asked at the Homestead about if he would marry and settle down anytime soon. Connor explained that he would one day, but at that time it wouldn't be fair to have a wife because he wouldn't have enough time to give her because of the more pressing Templar threat.

And how do you know that by wife he didn't mean a man? :rolleyes:

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 12:26 PM
And how do you know that by wife he didn't mean a man? :rolleyes:
Because "wife" still meant wife back in the 1700s. ;)

Spider_Sith9
07-31-2013, 12:27 PM
And how do you know that by wife he didn't mean a man? :rolleyes:

Because Husband means Man? ;)

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 12:28 PM
And how do you know that by wife he didn't mean a man? :rolleyes:
Connor: I do not have the time to give a woman what she deserves. Perhaps when all this is over, I will be able to settle and have a family. I hope.


​I know you`re not serious, but just sayin

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 12:29 PM
Because "wife" still meant wife back in the 1700s. ;)

Thank you Silver! xD Also, Connor said "her", NOT "he". He just wasn't ready at that time. Also, we haven't seen the rest of his life. Also, as I have already said, he had more important things to deal with at that time. Besides, they never gave any implication that he was interested in men at all.

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 12:31 PM
Connor: I do not have the time to give a woman what she deserves. Perhaps when all this is over, I will be able to settle and have a family. I hope.


EXACTLY my point.

Also, in that time, having a family meant: MAN and WOMAN.

TheHumanTowel
07-31-2013, 12:32 PM
This discussion again? :| I thought this series was about intrigue, conspiracies, and ancient artifacts, not about the need to represent every group of people.

However, I certainly would not mind a homosexual or bisexual, but it would be too much hassle to do this for the protagonist. The OP said that he could have had a baby he did not know of in the past. That is not possible, any memories after conception are not passed on. Unless he intended for an off-screen homosexual relationship, it would not be possible. If we were to see it in a game, the child would have to be conceived afterward. This would either mean that he turned straight later on in his life, which I figure would be a bit of an insult to the character and gay people, or he conceived a child for the sake of conceiving a child. Both options would draw too much attention to them, in my opinion, for the story not to revolve around homosexuality.

Memory Seals are most definitely not an option, unless the protagonist could somehow get his hands on hundreds of them and the person reliving the memories would not mind going through all of them. A Memory Seal does not record a person's entire life, it only records a specific memory. Freeroam would not be an option.

While I don't really see the need to emphasize the existence of homosexual or bisexual Assassins because they're most certainly there, I would not mind seeing them in the games, novels or comics. But in case of the protagonist, I see too many story issues for it to work out properly. When you have to write your way around previously established canon, it rarely turns out good.


Also, the choice to either be straight or gay would be in complete contradiction to genetic memory as well, and would simply not be possible for this universe. I wouldn't want AC to turn into an RPG anyway. If I wanted to play an RPG, I wouldn't be playing AC.
This. It's just not feasible given the series' canon. These workarounds involving memory seals and the like are just that, workarounds. Just some contrived method for the sole purpose of allowing the protagonist to be gay. A character's sexuality should feel like a natural part of their character not something tacked on to reach the diversity quota.

ArabianFrost
07-31-2013, 12:32 PM
EXACTLY my point.

Also, in that time, having a family meant: MAN and WOMAN.

and BABY.

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 12:34 PM
Thank you Silver! xD Also, Connor said "her", NOT "he". He just wasn't ready at that time. Also, we haven't seen the rest of his life. Also, as I have already said, he had more important things to deal with at that time. Besides, they never gave any implication that he was interested in men at all.
:D
And there was this scene with teen Connor, Achilles and the passing woman.


Connor: I do not have the time to give a woman what she deserves. Perhaps when all this is over, I will be able to settle and have a family. I hope.​
Ah yes, he said woman.
But how do you know he meant a woman-woman by saying woman? :p

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 12:34 PM
and BABY.

Yes, of course, Frost. I'm sure you know what I meant though. :)

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 12:35 PM
This. It's just not feasible given the series' canon. These workarounds involving memory seals and the like are just that, workarounds. Just some contrived method for the sole purpose of allowing the protagonist to be gay. A character's sexuality should feel like a natural part of their character not something tacked on to reach the diversity quota.
Agreed with this.

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 12:36 PM
:D
Ah yes, he said woman.
But how do you know he meant a woman-woman by saying woman? :p

Seriously Silver? ^^' Whose side are you really on? :confused:

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 12:36 PM
Seriously Silver? ^^' Whose side are you really on? :confused:
The Devil`s..

she`s the devil`s advocate

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 12:37 PM
Seriously Silver? ^^' Whose side are you really on? :confused:
I'm just kidding! lol

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 12:38 PM
Because "wife" still meant wife back in the 1700s. ;)

Many things are different in the game than actual history. For example Natives were, to my knowledge, not known to roam freely about in colonial cities without anyone batting an eyelid. And no native certainly was George Washington's closest friend. ;)


Because Husband means Man? ;)

Really? You must not have gay friends then.


Thank you Silver! xD Also, Connor said "her", NOT "he". He just wasn't ready at that time. Also, we haven't seen the rest of his life. Also, as I have already said, he had more important things to deal with at that time. Besides, they never gave any implication that he was interested in men at all.

Many a times gay people hide their feelings to evade social scrutiny. Many times gays also discover their feelings very late. I have a gay friend who thought he was into women. It was only when the time arrived to do the deed, that he discovered he was not interested in them.



[/I]​I know you`re not serious, but just sayin

I'm perfectly serious :X What gave you that impression. But okay, I see that Connor being possibly gay is a rather touchy subject among his fangirls, so I'll not derail this thread further. As I said before, no I'd not like a gay assassin partially because of the practical difficulties, partially because it would most likely come across as pandering and partially because we already had one. Adios!

:sails away:

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 12:40 PM
A character's sexuality should feel like a natural part of their character not something tacked on to reach the diversity quota.

Ah, this so much!

MuddledMuppet2
07-31-2013, 12:43 PM
Some earlier responces disagreed with my views on Connor as a character, I just wanted to say 'fair enough', and note that I read them and my opinion hasn't changed, but I accept it's a matter of perception rather than a matter of fact.

I can't remember Connor being portrayed as an atheist, certainly not his atheism informing his actions, but that may just be my lousy memory :)


Seriously? Did everyone forget the beginning of every game? It's been there From AC to AC III Here let me remind you....“This game was developed by a multicultural team of various faiths and beliefs.” I don't think they give a **** if they make a gay Assassin or not. That single sentence screams diversity. I wouldn't care at all if we had a gay Assassin, I don't see anything wrong with the possibility.

I don't quite see this, there are plenty of faiths where homosexuality is considered a sin and punishable by death or eternal damnation., there may be an agreement on not to discuss it, but I can't see how there can possibly be a consensus across various faiths and beliefs that homosexuality is ok. Some will think it's ok, some won't.

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 12:44 PM
Many a times gay people hide their feelings to evade social scrutiny. Many times gays also discover their feelings very late. I have a gay friend who thought he was into women. It was only when the time arrived to do the deed, that he discovered he was not interested in them.

:sails away:

Yes, I understand that. It can happen and does happen to some people.

That does not mean that it is true for Connor.

And... Connor is NOT gay.

Yeah, sail away. That's fine by me. You know we are right! :D

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 12:47 PM
But okay, I see that Connor being possibly gay is a rather touchy subject among his fangirls, so I'll not derail this thread further.:
It's not a fangirl problem. There is absolutely NO proof whatsoever that Connor was either gay or bisexual. O_o

@Lady We are always right!!! :D

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 12:47 PM
Some earlier responces disagreed with my views on Connor as a character, I just wanted to say 'fair enough', and note that I read them and my opinion hasn't changed, but I accept it's a matter of perception rather than a matter of fact.
I said Altair..not Connor, Altair was an Atheist..

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 12:49 PM
That does not mean that is true for Connor.

Nope. I only said its POSSIBLE. Jeez.. where is RatonhnhakeFan when you need him :|


Yeah, sail away. That's fine by me. You know we are right! :D

*screams from his ship* Keep telling yourselves that! :D

pacmanate
07-31-2013, 12:50 PM
Connor is bisexual

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 12:50 PM
It's not a fangirl problem. There is absolutely NO proof whatsoever that Connor was either gay or bisexual. O_o

There is no proof of nothing. So we are free to deduce whatever we want. That was my point.

:sails away again:

ArabianFrost
07-31-2013, 12:51 PM
Some earlier responces disagreed with my views on Connor as a character, I just wanted to say 'fair enough', and note that I read them and my opinion hasn't changed, but I accept it's a matter of perception rather than a matter of fact.

I can't remember Connor being portrayed as an atheist, certainly not his atheism informing his actions, but that may just be my lousy memory :)



I don't quite see this, there are plenty of faiths where homosexuality is considered a sin and punishable by death or eternal damnation., there may be an agreement on not to discuss it, but I can't see how there can possibly be a consensus across various faiths and beliefs that homosexuality is ok. Some will think it's ok, some won't.

Yeah. However the game is not there to discuss of the validity of homosexuality or argue whether or not it's right. If this actually gets made, the character would be gay for the sake of history, not making a point about how homosexuality is right, at least partially, so as long as Ubisoft doesn't make this game a statement against anti-homo people, then it wouldn't be much of a big deal.

Whether or not "some" condemn it is another matter in itself that is far less shallow than what some make it to be.

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 12:54 PM
There is no proof of nothing. So we are free to deduce whatever we want. That was my point.

:sails away again:
My nuclear submarine is faster. I will catch up quickly. :)

And there is proof he's not gay!!! aaaahhh!! lol

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 12:54 PM
Nope. I only said its POSSIBLE. Jeez.. where is RatonhnhakeFan when you need him :|

*screams from his ship* Keep telling yourselves that! :D

Anything is possible, but NOT that. So you are WRONG.

We will, thanks! :)



It's not a fangirl problem. There is absolutely NO proof whatsoever that Connor was either gay or bisexual. O_o

@Lady We are always right!!! :D

Yeah, Silver! xD You tell 'em! ^_^

Legendz54
07-31-2013, 12:54 PM
There is no proof of nothing. So we are free to deduce whatever we want. That was my point.

:sails away again:

No hang on sail back here NOW for a second..





http://youtu.be/Wo8WTuDicf8

Moultonborough
07-31-2013, 12:56 PM
Some earlier responces disagreed with my views on Connor as a character, I just wanted to say 'fair enough', and note that I read them and my opinion hasn't changed, but I accept it's a matter of perception rather than a matter of fact.

I can't remember Connor being portrayed as an atheist, certainly not his atheism informing his actions, but that may just be my lousy memory :)



I don't quite see this, there are plenty of faiths where homosexuality is considered a sin and punishable by death or eternal damnation., there may be an agreement on not to discuss it, but I can't see how there can possibly be a consensus across various faiths and beliefs that homosexuality is ok. Some will think it's ok, some won't.

It doesn't mean just religions. Also their personal feeling on issues, such as Homosexuality. Everyone can think what they want too.

pacmanate
07-31-2013, 12:58 PM
No hang on sail back here NOW for a second..





http://youtu.be/Wo8WTuDicf8


WHAt in the helel.?!?!!?!? WHERE DID THIS HAPPEN :O HES GAY

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 01:00 PM
WHAt in the helel.?!?!!?!? WHERE DID THIS HAPPEN :O HES GAY

Did you really not know about Leonardo Da Vinci...?

It was also mentioned in his Animus Database entry.

pacmanate
07-31-2013, 01:01 PM
Did you really not know about Leonardo Da Vinci...?

It was also mentioned in his Animus Database entry.

:eek:

I dont read animus data entries...

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 01:01 PM
My nuclear submarine is faster. I will catch up quickly. :)

Nah, your sub is crewed by tumblr artists who know painting but not maning a ship, whereas mine is helmed by seasoned pirates :D


And there is proof he's not gay!!! aaaahhh!! lol

Riiiight


Anything is possible, but NOT that. So you are WRONG.

You agreed to me and then disagreed in the same line? Okay.. :|

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 01:07 PM
You agreed to me and then disagreed in the same line? Okay.. :|

You are taking it out of context!

You said things are possible and I agree that anything is possible, but...

I DISAGREE with your theory about Connor.

There are characters with different sexual orientations just as in real life, but...

Connor is STRAIGHT.

My apologies for not making it clear enough before, but I really hope that it is clear enough for you now. :)

pacmanate
07-31-2013, 01:09 PM
We all though Professor Dumbledore was straight too. But NOOOOOOOOOOOO.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 01:10 PM
You are taking it out of context!

You said things are possible and I agree that anything is possible, but...

I DISAGREE with your theory about Connor.

There are characters with different sexual orientations just as in real life, but...

Connor is STRAIGHT.

My apologies for not making it clear enough before, but I really hope that it is clear enough for you now. :)

Hang on a second, I'm not theorizing or anything. I'm not saying he is gay FO SURE. I'm merely headcanoning, based on hints I saw in the game that's all. I hope its clear to you now too :) I think pacman agrees with me.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 01:10 PM
We all though Professor Dumbledore was straight too. But NOOOOOOOOOOOO.

I'd die of laughter if Connor gets a game people want so badly but it turns out he is gay haha.

pacmanate
07-31-2013, 01:11 PM
I'd die of laughter if Connor gets a game people want so badly but it turns out he is gay haha.

Haha. What Im saying is basically no one knows until the creators tell us.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 01:12 PM
Haha. What Im saying is basically no one knows until the creators tell us.

That is EXACTLY what I'm saying. But nooOooo

TheHumanTowel
07-31-2013, 01:14 PM
Will all the Connor fangirls in the house stop overreacting and derailing threads.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 01:15 PM
Will all the Connor fangirls in the house stop overreacting and derailing threads.
Will you stop acknowledging them and further derailing the thread?

pacmanate
07-31-2013, 01:16 PM
Will all the Connor fangirls in the house stop overreacting and derailing threads.

Yeah.. there's one thing liking a character, then there is constant obsession. I agree its kind of irritating. I don't bash about how much I love Altair.

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 01:16 PM
That is EXACTLY what I'm saying. But nooOooo

I understand what you are saying, but I won't believe you until or IF a creator ever tells us that.

ACIII gave me the impression that Connor is STRAIGHT, so that is what I believe.

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 01:19 PM
Will all the Connor fangirls in the house stop overreacting and derailing threads.

I am NOT over-reacting. I was making my case for why I disagreed. I explain and then I am asked the same question again. It's not my fault if people don't understand.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 01:19 PM
I understand what you are saying, but I won't believe you until or IF a creator ever tells us that.

ACIII gave me the impression that Connor is STRAIGHT, so that is what I believe.

Sure, sis. And I'll believe based on what I perceive. That is all :D We are free to draw our own conclusions because AC3 is rather vague on Connor's sexuality either way. Thats all I'm saying.

MuddledMuppet2
07-31-2013, 01:21 PM
I said Altair..not Connor, Altair was an Atheist..

Now that's REALLY testing my memory! I'm willing to concede the point, again, I can't remember his atheism actually driving the story while he was in a world dominated by religion, but I do have a very bad memory so could well be wrong. :)


Yeah. However the game is not there to discuss of the validity of homosexuality or argue whether or not it's right. If this actually gets made, the character would be gay for the sake of history, not making a point about how homosexuality is right, at least partially, so as long as Ubisoft doesn't make this game a statement against anti-homo people, then it wouldn't be much of a big deal.

Whether or not "some" condemn it is another matter in itself that is far less shallow than what some make it to be.

Part of my point tho, is that if the inclusion of an 'alternative' sexuality was on a politicised basis, it would effect the development of the character. If there were negative traits, that would expose the devs to accusations of a negative portrayel, the safe way would be to portray that character without substantial human failings/flaws, I maintain this would lead to a 'flat' character.

I perhaps haven't made myself clear, as an example, the ostricisation and events that led to Alan Turings suicide following his crucial role towards defeating the nazis, was a historical fact. I am sure that in all stages of history there have been such figures. The portrayal of such characters canot be anything but a politicised statement, if handled as a fully rounded character I would be totally for it.

However, in my opinion, the angelsiation of gays is equally as insulting to the intelligence as their demonisation. There's a thin line to walk here, & I feel that fear of a potential political backlash would make any games devloper err on the side of caution, which would not enhance the art (as in a reflection of life) but dilute it.


It doesn't mean just religions. Also their personal feeling on issues, such as Homosexuality. Everyone can think what they want too.

Exactly. So person A can hold that belief 1 is valid, but belief 2 is evil/wrong, therefore person B who believes 2 is evil/wrong. To accept everyone as equals, we also have to accept cultures that actively deny the equality of everyone. It's an oxymoron. You can't believe for example that discrimination on grounds of colour is wrong, and at the same time belive that a culture that supports apartheid is ok.

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 01:22 PM
Sure, sis. And I'll believe based on what I perceive. That is all :D We are free to draw our own conclusions because AC3 is rather vague on Connor's sexuality either way. Thats all I'm saying.

If you understand that I am allowed to have MY opinion, why don't you just let it go?

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 01:23 PM
Just to clarify something. Having a bisexual character doesn't really have to mean flirting every 5 minutes nor turning the game into a case of sexuality from the psychological side or anything like that. This is a heavily story-based game, not a reality show. I only suggested this to be referred to as a normal and secondary thing. It's not going to be "That game of the gay assassin" it's going to be the game of the assassin who did this and this and that in terms of the story, the creed, the first civilization discoveries..etc. so it will in no way be the center of attention.

As I said before, it should be handled normally and free of any stereotypes, of any over exposure, of any of those typical dramatic elements. Just show that the main guy is interested in some other guy or they ended up together somehow, without having to put a devastatingly sad story or the typical messed up bad ending for a love story or anything like that. Just make it normal like how Ezio loved Sofia in AC:R and it ended well and it wasn't what the story revolved around or just like how ACII showed Ezio paying Christina a visit.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 01:23 PM
If you understand that I am allowed to have MY opinion, why don't you just let it go?

I let it go long ago and sailed away. Why don't you people stop following me in your subs or something?

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 01:29 PM
Now that's REALLY testing my memory! I'm willing to concede the point, again, I can't remember his atheism actually driving the story while he was in a world dominated by religion, but I do have a very bad memory so could well be wrong. :)

Well, since you`re conceding, I was willing to provide evidence or refresh your memory, but okay (i`d do it if you`re still willing, though) It doesn't necessarily drive the story. Altair`s atheism is a strong part of his characters and is emphasized during many high moments in the game and it`s not just something passive...

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 01:30 PM
I am NOT over-reacting. I was making my case for why I disagreed. I explain and then I am asked the same question again. It's not my fault if people don't understand.
Yeah, I don't understand why they think we're over-reacting. LOL Based on the game hints, my impression is that Connor is STRAIGHT. Sure, they haven't told us for sure, but I'm basing this on all the hints I've got.

(Imagine if they seen us really over-reacting... haha! LOL I almost feel sorry them when it happens. :p)

Spider_Sith9
07-31-2013, 01:32 PM
:D
And there was this scene with teen Connor, Achilles and the passing woman.


Achilles: Don't stare

Connor: *folds arms* Sorry.

That part makes me blush. He's so awkward and humble I want to just...hug him. <3


No hang on sail back here NOW for a second..





http://youtu.be/Wo8WTuDicf8

HAHAHAHAHAHHA I remember when the DLC came out. Most of his sodomy implications from reality where taken up to eleven as if he really WAS homosexual in AC. :P


Sure, sis. And I'll believe based on what I perceive. That is all :D We are free to draw our own conclusions because AC3 is rather vague on Connor's sexuality either way. Thats all I'm saying.

Yeah well, Connor is suffering Kanji Tatsumi Syndrome. As Persona 4 went on, his sexuality became more ambiguous. Yet people make gay jokes because it's funny despite it not being true so they focus only on early Kanji.

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 01:34 PM
I let it go long ago and sailed away. Why don't you people stop following me in your subs or something?

We're not following you. Why do you have to have the last word?

Actually, forget it. I'm not going to continue this. Thank you for the interesting conversation. :)

TheHumanTowel
07-31-2013, 01:35 PM
And the people rejoiced

Locopells
07-31-2013, 01:36 PM
I know I'm late to the discussion, but I gotta agree with two important points:

S/he's gotta to have had kids at some point, for the Animus to work. But, and this ties into my second point, life isn't simple enough for that to be unworkable with.

Secondly, I wouldn't have a problem if they were done well, and made a complex character, rather then just adding them in for the sake of it. Nothing drives me up the wall more, then having to add the topical minority of the moment into every single soap/tv show/kids cartoon/etc...

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 01:36 PM
And the people rejoiced

You're welcome, Towel! :)

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 01:41 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHHA I remember when the DLC came out. Most of his sodomy implications from reality where taken up to eleven as if he really WAS homosexual in AC. :P

You mean there is any doubt??


Yeah well, Connor is suffering Kanji Tatsumi Syndrome. As Persona 4 went on, his sexuality became more ambiguous. Yet people make gay jokes because it's funny despite it not being true so they focus only on early Kanji.

I don't know those stuff so I can't comment!

ArabianFrost
07-31-2013, 01:42 PM
We're not following you. Why do you have to have the last word?

Actually, forget it. I'm not going to continue this. Thank you for the interesting conversation. :)

Wait, we're leaving this thread already? This was the least derailed thread in quite sometime and was, to an extent, constructive. Shame. Guess I'll pack my bags. To which thread, then?

MuddledMuppet2
07-31-2013, 01:44 PM
Well, since you`re conceding, I was willing to provide evidence or refresh your memory, but okay (i`d do it if you`re still willing, though) It doesn't necessarily drive the story. Altair`s atheism is a strong part of his characters and is emphasized during many high moments in the game and it`s not just something passive...

I'll go further than conceding, I'll thank you for pointing it out :)
I might actually pick up a copy of AC1 again anyway, I'll watch the story with a different pair of eyes thhis time, tbh I don't think I even really considered such asspects on my original playthrough, was just too much wrapped up in the world and the freerun/free roam etc

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 01:49 PM
I'll go further than conceding, I'll thank you for pointing it out :)
I might actually pick up a copy of AC1 again anyway, I'll watch the story with a different pair of eyes thhis time, tbh I don't think I even really considered such asspects on my original playthrough, was just too much wrapped up in the world and the freerun/free roam etc
You`re most welcome. happy to help. I do urge to put further attention on the dialogue. the game should be pretty cheap now..

Spider_Sith9
07-31-2013, 01:50 PM
If I'm correct all the Assassins are Atheists. They all follow a form of Nihilism. Exception may be Connor in his case of his Spirits.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 01:53 PM
If I'm correct all the Assassins are Atheists. They all follow a form of Nihilism. Exception may be Connor in his case of his Spirits.
Ezio`s beliefs were only touched upon during his final battle with the pope, which confirms that up to this point, he was Catholic...the only later mention of it comes vaguely in "My church is not of god" which still does not indicate Atheism, simply that his Creed, which is the Assassins creed, is not of god...AC discovery, though blatantly confirms Ezio`s Atheism, BUT BEFORE the actual fight with Rodrigo where he`s a confirmed catholic, so making Discovery out of the question since it opposes canon.

I don`t know about Nihilism. none of them seemed to share that, but Altair..

ArabianFrost
07-31-2013, 01:59 PM
If I'm correct all the Assassins are Atheists. They all follow a form of Nihilism. Exception may be Connor in his case of his Spirits.

The Hashashins are Ahmadiya Muslims, so they're not all atheists. Not all assassins know of TWCB, so all of them only follow their creed which basically urges them to fight for people's freedom and, for the most part, doesn't conflict with one's belief, hence why I don't really find difficult to find Assassins of varied faiths and beliefs.

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 02:23 PM
I'm sure not all assassins are atheists. Ezip's battle with Rodrigo in AC:B pretty much showed that he did believe in God in some way. Also, if it's not very obvious, to believe in God, doesn't mean not to be a sinner. Many of us believe but still do whatever we want. So I guess Altair was an atheist from the beginning while others could've changed their minds and turned their back on religion later. Ezio, however, didn't confirm that he abandoned his belief in God in any part of the AC series on major consoles.

pacmanate
07-31-2013, 03:12 PM
Just to clarify something. Having a bisexual character doesn't really have to mean flirting every 5 minutes nor turning the game into a case of sexuality from the psychological side or anything like that. This is a heavily story-based game, not a reality show. I only suggested this to be referred to as a normal and secondary thing. It's not going to be "That game of the gay assassin" it's going to be the game of the assassin who did this and this and that in terms of the story, the creed, the first civilization discoveries..etc. so it will in no way be the center of attention.

As I said before, it should be handled normally and free of any stereotypes, of any over exposure, of any of those typical dramatic elements. Just show that the main guy is interested in some other guy or they ended up together somehow, without having to put a devastatingly sad story or the typical messed up bad ending for a love story or anything like that. Just make it normal like how Ezio loved Sofia in AC:R and it ended well and it wasn't what the story revolved around or just like how ACII showed Ezio paying Christina a visit.

Thats kinda what I meant about Connor. You wouldnt really know whilst playing the game.

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 03:20 PM
Thats kinda what I meant about Connor. You wouldnt really know whilst playing the game.

Exactly! It would be added as a normal characteristic not like the stereotypical "Gay = Feminine" or "Gay = has problems". Because everyone can have problems with relationships or society not just gay or bisexual people. If they can be smart enough to show him briefly interacting with another male in a romantic or sexual way or at least some sort of reference, then what's wrong with that? a hero, a fighter, someone making a difference but he happened to love or feel desire for another man.

Ureh
07-31-2013, 03:33 PM
I don't mind if they write a GLBT characters/ancestors.

Maybe they can add romance options in the present day if they think it can enhance the experience.

JimmySaysUDie
07-31-2013, 03:43 PM
Honestly, who the **** cares what sexual orentation the Assassin is? Why does it matter, the game is about action/adventure/assassinations/stealth....not match making between NPCs.

I don't even understand why the OP would bring this up if nothing more to stir the pot this topic.

I-Like-Pie45
07-31-2013, 04:08 PM
Altair is a Muslim

proof: He lives in the Middle East and as the reliable news from Fox proves all middle Easterners are Muslims they can't have any other sort of affriliation

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 04:13 PM
Altair is a Muslim

proof: He lives in the Middle East and as the reliable news from Fox proves all middle Easterners are Muslims they can't have any other sort of affriliation
Legit...A George in the middle east is Muslim..

Bastiaen
07-31-2013, 04:25 PM
Choice = Good.
No Choice = Bad.

Same with stealth.

Option for stealth = Good
Forced stealth = Bad

Besides, I could have pretended Connor was a homo. He didnt have any woman contact at all.

I agree with your options argument. But Connor was just waiting until he'd completed his battle to settle down. He actually promised Dobby that they could try something when things settled down. Can't find a source on youtube..... Maybe I'll record it next time I play AC3.
Anyway. Connor is not gay.
I'm trying not to post too much on this thread, as I'm afraid people might get offended at my "close mindedness."

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 04:28 PM
...Connor was just waiting until he'd completed his battle to settle down. He actually promised Dobby that they could try something when things settled down...
Anyway. Connor is not gay.


Thank you! :)

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 04:29 PM
Honestly, who the **** cares what sexual orentation the Assassin is? Why does it matter, the game is about action/adventure/assassinations/stealth....not match making between NPCs.

I don't even understand why the OP would bring this up if nothing more to stir the pot this topic.

It is true that the Assassin's sexuality isn't the the point that AC games focus on but just like how they show Ezio kissing Christina, having sex with her and with Caterina, being in love with Sofia, Altair and Maria together on the tower, then Altair and Maria married and now with ACIV, in the trailer, showing Edward leaving a room with two women in bed, I guess it wouldn't hurt if they showed two male assassin's kissing.

The former examples didn't turn any AC game into a porn movie nor a romance-focused story and it wasn't Twilight either, so I don't see any problem with showing two male characters together just as normally as they did with a male and a female and even two females in bed with Edward without turning the game's focus to that side only and leaving the action adventure story aside.

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 04:48 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/2f289d2a6c517f7fec71f06b30018a6b/tumblr_inline_mkz5nyMCMz1qz4rgp.png
"since blackbeard seemed to know all the details in the trailer"
http://askconnorstomahawk.tumblr.com/post/47523800888/edward-kenways-conquests

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 05:01 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/2f289d2a6c517f7fec71f06b30018a6b/tumblr_inline_mkz5nyMCMz1qz4rgp.png
"since blackbeard seemed to know all the details in the trailer"
http://askconnorstomahawk.tumblr.com/post/47523800888/edward-kenways-conquests

Heheheehe gotta love this!

pacmanate
07-31-2013, 05:03 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/2f289d2a6c517f7fec71f06b30018a6b/tumblr_inline_mkz5nyMCMz1qz4rgp.png
"since blackbeard seemed to know all the details in the trailer"
http://askconnorstomahawk.tumblr.com/post/47523800888/edward-kenways-conquests

Ah! So it wasn't Edward having two women, Blackbeard had one.

Mr_Shade
07-31-2013, 05:05 PM
He just meant that they would appear as if they're just trying to look like a company that is LGBT friendly
They are ready are as a employer ;)

to all:

I know this is a sensitive subject - so please remember that many people read this thread, so post sensibly ;)

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 05:06 PM
Ah! So it wasn't Edward having two women, Blackbeard had one.
Hmm... I believe, that little heart is meant for Edward. lol

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 05:06 PM
They are ready are as a employer ;)

to all:

I know this is a sensitive subject - so please remember that many people read this thread, so post sensibly ;)

Thank you for joining us :)
It is definitely a sensitive subject and I hope everyone here discusses it without hurting anybody's feeling.

Bastiaen
07-31-2013, 05:20 PM
Thank you! :)

You're welcome. I don't know that I've ever been so irritated by a thread as this one. I think that everyone is entitled to his or her own beliefs, but apparently when I believe that homosexuality is wrong, and that the traditional family structure is best for society, I'm a blind fool.
PS: I'm a family man. I love my wife and son. And we love Assassin's Creed.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 05:24 PM
You're welcome. I don't know that I've ever been so irritated by a thread as this one. I think that everyone is entitled to his or her own beliefs, but apparently when I believe that homosexuality is wrong, and that the traditional family structure is best for society, I'm a blind fool.
PS: I'm a family man. I love my wife and son. And we love Assassin's Creed.
Hey, I`m Muslim and I think it`s wrong. none of my business what anyone decides to do, though...

I wouldn't mind playing as a Homosexual in a game either..as long as its not just for "yay diversity" if it`ll happen, just have it as something like Cristina in AC II...Bill from the last of us was a pretty good example of this..

I`m generally against over-sex in video games. straight or gay..I just don`t like it being shoe horned everywhere for no reason...

Just my 2 cents..

Mr_Shade
07-31-2013, 05:31 PM
Ubisoft would handle it well - I'm sure. :)

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 05:32 PM
Ubisoft would handle it well - I'm sure. :)
Agreed with this..

Bastiaen
07-31-2013, 05:36 PM
Hey, I`m Muslim and I think it`s wrong. none of my business what anyone decides to do, though...

I wouldn't mind playing as a Homosexual in a game either..as long as its not just for "yay diversity" if it`ll happen, just have it as something like Cristina in AC II...Bill from the last of us was a pretty good example of this..

I`m generally against over-sex in video games. straight or gay..I just don`t like it being shoe horned everywhere for no reason...

Just my 2 cents..

I agree with you absolutely. I found Ezio's promiscuity obnoxious at the best of times. I hate the scene after he kills Marco Barbarigo and walks off for his little party with the courtesans. I felt like the scene with Caterina could have been implied, and that it would have been better that way. (My wife does love her underpants though).
Connor's sexuality was done well. Implied, alluded to, but never overdone.
I'm on xbox, so I sadly haven't played The Last of Us.

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 05:39 PM
You're welcome. I don't know that I've ever been so irritated by a thread as this one. I think that everyone is entitled to his or her own beliefs, but apparently when I believe that homosexuality is wrong, and that the traditional family structure is best for society, I'm a blind fool.
PS: I'm a family man. I love my wife and son. And we love Assassin's Creed.

Um... I just want to say I was referring to your comment about Connor not being gay. I just feel that he wasn't portrayed in that way.

As for someone's sexual orientation, I believe that it is their personal choice and preference. Then, I would NEVER say it is wrong. Everyone is different and I don't believe anybody should judge anyone else for their choice.

I actually didn't like Ezio because of his promiscuity and excessive flirting and he was STRAIGHT. So it doesn't really matter to me about a character's sexual orientation in an AC game, as long as they don't flaunt it in any case. I don't play AC for that. It is a small aspect, but only really needs to be featured to the extent to show how the bloodline of the assassins is continued, if that.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 05:40 PM
Yeah. One of my friends told me TLoU has a gay character, and that its a serious one, not Bioware's "diversity yo!" type gay characters..

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 05:41 PM
Yeah. One of my friends told me TLoU has a gay character, and that its a serious one, not Bioware's "diversity yo!" type gay characters..
Bill was freakin` awesome

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 05:45 PM
Bill was freakin` awesome

Gift me a PS3 :( :)

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 05:49 PM
Gift me a PS3 :( :)
I want to.......but I can`t

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111228202951/assassinscreed/images/e/e0/Last-rites-bh-memory.png

OSantaClownO
07-31-2013, 05:55 PM
Ubisoft would handle it well - I'm sure. :)

Indeed they will.

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 05:58 PM
I don't think it would matter much as AC stories are not really relationship focused. Connor's sexual orientation is hardly noticeable, Altair's is for a moment or two. I don't really mind either way.



You're welcome. I don't know that I've ever been so irritated by a thread as this one. I think that everyone is entitled to his or her own beliefs, but apparently when I believe that homosexuality is wrong, and that the traditional family structure is best for society, I'm a blind fool.
PS: I'm a family man. I love my wife and son. And we love Assassin's Creed.

No you are not entitled to have any belief you want without being criticized for it. Believing that homosexuality is wrong is dreadful and I will never respect such an opinion ever. Homosexuals have suffered immensely throughout history, both physically (murder, assault, imprisonment) as well as mentally (not being allowed by society to pursue their happiness, discriminzation etc etc). It's believes such as yours, among the average citizens, that has legitimized this persecution. Not ok!

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 06:05 PM
No you are not entitled to have any belief you want without being criticized for it. Believing that homosexuality is wrong is dreadful and I will never respect such an opinion ever. Homosexuals have suffered immensely throughout history, both physically (murder, assault, imprisonment) as well as mentally (not being allowed by society to pursue their happiness, discriminzation etc etc). It's believes such as yours, among the average citizens, that has legitimized this persecution. Not ok!
Muslims believe that every other religion is wrong, Christians believe every other Religion is wrong, Jews believe that every other Religion is wrong and so on and so forth. Bullying, discrimination and murder are outrageous and vile..the thought of something being wrong is NOT what triggers these senseless acts...it`s the same idea where in some areas, different religions live peacefully and co-exist while in others everyone kills each other....both places have groups which believe that their ideas are right and others` wrong, but both conditions exist...one place where a group is discriminated against and is killed, while the other place has no such conflict and everyone lives peacefully..

You`re wrong, basically...you`re free to criticize and judge, although it`d be ironic, but it`s simply not true that the thought of Homosexuality being wrong is what triggers these acts, since MANY societies functioned and still do with groups thinking others are wrong..

JimmySaysUDie
07-31-2013, 06:11 PM
No you are not entitled to have any belief you want without being criticized for it. Believing that homosexuality is wrong is dreadful and I will never respect such an opinion ever. Homosexuals have suffered immensely throughout history, both physically (murder, assault, imprisonment) as well as mentally (not being allowed by society to pursue their happiness, discriminzation etc etc). It's believes such as yours, among the average citizens, that has legitimized this persecution. Not ok!

This is exactly the kind of thing that pisses me off. I HAVE to beleive that homosexuality is perfectly fine and not against the natural laws of reproduction or otherwise I am a biggot.

If people want to live their life the way it makes them happy thats fine, I won't do or say anything to interfer. People have the right to be happy, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with it. It doesn't mean I should openly persecute a person either.

But everyone has to beleive in something so don't critisize me for my beliefs just because I won't be marching in a gay pride parade.

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 06:14 PM
Muslims believe that every other religion is wrong, Christians believe every other Religion is wrong, Jews believe that every other Religion is wrong and so on and so forth. Bullying, discrimination and murder are outrageous and vile..the thought of something being wrong is NOT what triggers these senseless acts...it`s the same idea where in some areas, different religions live peacefully and co-exist while in others everyone kills each other....both places believe that their ideas are right and others` wrong, but both conditions exist...one where a group is discriminated against and is killed, while the other has no such conflict and everyone lives peacefully..

You`re wrong, basically..


Your logic is off. If no one believed homosexuality was wrong, they would obv not get bullied. The belief is the root of the problem. Obv not everyone who think homosexuality is wrong cause them harm, but that does not have to be true for the belief to be harmful.


This is exactly the kind of thing that pisses me off. I HAVE to beleive that homosexuality is perfectly fine and not against the natural laws of reproduction or otherwise I am a biggot.

If people want to live their life the way it makes them happy thats fine, I won't do or say anything to interfer. People have the right to be happy, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with it. It doesn't mean I should openly persecute a person either.

But everyone has to beleive in something so don't critisize me for my beliefs just because I won't be marching in a gay pride parade.

If someone says blacks have inferior intellects, or jews are greedy, or muslims untrustworthy etc should I just silently accept these believes as well? I'm sorry, but I simply won't. I refuse to show any respect for such believes or the people who hold them. Sorry if it pisses you off.

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 06:14 PM
Personally, this is what I believe:

- Homosexuality is not "wrong"
- gay people should never be persecuted.
- I would totally accept a gay character in games, films etc. 100%.


However...
- such a character should not be forced for the sake of diversity or because it's a current trend.
- the plot should not revolve around the gay person's sexuality. AT ALL. (And I would say the same for a straight person. Perhaps that's why I couldn't entirely warm up to Ezio). I'm generally against over-sexualisation of both genders and of the various types of sexualities).
- I will also accept that straight people are not always comfortable identifying with a gay character. (Not because they're judgmental or overly-religious etc but because they're not comfortable by NATURE. In other words, it is NATURAL to feel this way, and this does not come (usually) from a place of judgement and prejudice).

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 06:18 PM
Your logic is off. If no one believed homosexuality was wrong, they would obv not get bullied. The belief is the root of the problem. Obv not everyone who think homosexuality is wrong cause them harm, but that does not have to be true for the belief to be harmful.
Of course it`s off since you disagree with it, yet you haven't countered a single argument of mine and that`s fine. ANYONE gets bullied, mate...not just those who are perceived as being wrong.

the belief is not harmful and I`v provided reasons why....you; however, just repeated your post and failed to provide any counter to what i`v said..

Murder, bullying and prosecution are vile...no matter what...

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 06:22 PM
Of course it`s off since you disagree with it, yet you haven't countered a single argument of mine and that`s fine. ANYONE gets bullied, mate...not just those who are perceived as being wrong.

the belief is not harmful and I`v provided reasons why....you;however, just repeat your post and fail to provide any counter to what i`v said..

The belief is harmful because without it their would be no foundation for the persucations. Without the belief no gays would get bullied for their sexual orientation.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 06:23 PM
The belief is harmful because without it their would be no foundation for the persucations.
Lol..keep telling yourself that...History proves you wrong

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 06:23 PM
..and here we go..

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 06:24 PM
..and here we go..
Yup...somebody just had to be the Paragon of Justice and Valor sooner or later...i`m waiting for Shade

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 06:25 PM
Lol..keep telling yourself that...History proves you wrong

Please give me one example from history where gays have been bullied for their sexual orientation and the offenders did NOT believe homosexuality was wrong!

Kaschra
07-31-2013, 06:28 PM
Homosexuals are just people who are attracted to/love someone from the same gender, there's nothing bad about it.

I really wouldn't mind a homosexual character, and I think Ubisoft could pull it off. Well, Leonardo was obvioussly gay, and I think they handled it pretty well.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 06:28 PM
Please give me one example from history where gays have been bullied for their sexual orientation and the offenders did NOT believe homosexuality was wrong!
That`s not possible i`m afraid...

JimmySaysUDie
07-31-2013, 06:30 PM
No one is saying that homosexuals can't be intelectual, trustworthy, or successful. There are numerous examples of gay individuals in public office, sports, business, media, etc. that have broken barriers and been more successful than others who are straight in their respective fields.

However, if every black, jew, muslim, hispanic, oriental, native american was a homosexual then the human race would have a tough time existing past the next century without medical centres to produce test-tube babies.

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 06:30 PM
That`s not possible i`m afraid...

Of course it isn't. In other words:

(No one believeing homosexuality is wrong) => (No bullying of gays for their sexual orientation).

===============
Ergo, if the belief disappears the problem disappears!

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 06:33 PM
No one is saying that homosexuals can't be intelectual, trustworthy, or successful. There are numerous examples of gay individuals in public office, sports, business, media, etc. that have broken barriers and been more successful than others who are straight in their respective fields.

However, if every black, jew, muslim, hispanic, oriental, native american was a homosexual then the human race would have a tough time existing past the next century without medical centres to produce test-tube babies.


Not at all. There is no biological problem for homosexuals to reproduce with a member of the opposite sex. In fact it is and has been very common as most gays have been forced by society to live as straights.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 06:33 PM
Didn't Altair say, that it is not our place to punish people for what they believe, no matter how much we disagree with them?

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 06:37 PM
Of course it isn't. In other words: (No one believeing homosexuality is wrong) => (No bullying of gays for their sexual orientation).

Thus, if the belief dissapears the problem will be solved!
Nope. here`s what you misunderstood.

"History proves you wrong" Ahhh so there`s an instance where Homosexuals were prosecuted for no reason?? Obviously no..
"That`s never happened" Ahhhh see? if the belief that Homosexuality is wrong disappears, then everything would be fine....no

See what I`m trying to say and said in the previous posts is that the thought of a certain group being wrong does not ALWAYS lead to prosecution, which means that the thought of it being wrong disappearing will NOT end Homosexual bullying or discrimination. lots of "homosexuality is wrong" believers treat Homosexuals fine...they don`t bully them and they don`t discriminate...

People get bullied when nothing is different in them or perceived as wrong in them. bullying will exist whether or not the belief of something being wrong exists.

In short, perceiving something as wrong does NOT ALWAYS mean prosecution, murder and bullying...quite simply

JimmySaysUDie
07-31-2013, 06:37 PM
Not at all. There is no biological problem for homosexuals to reproduce with a member of the opposite sex. In fact this is and has benn very common as most gays have been forced by society to live as straights.

Yes...a ***** goes into a ******....I think we all know that. But if someone is not sexually attracted to the opposite sex what reason would they have to have intercourse?

There would be a drastic decline in child births and that cannot be argued

...really the real words for our sexual organs get bleeped? lol

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 06:38 PM
No one has to accept anyone else's opinion or belief if they disagree with it, but everyone IS entitled to have their own opinions and beliefs as well.

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 06:39 PM
Didn't Altair say, that it is not our place to punish people for what they believe, no matter how much we disagree with them?

I don't know, I'm no AC scholar. However I completely agree with the statement. People should never be punished for their believes, but for their actions. However if they voice their believes in public they must accept that they may be criticized for them. It's very important that they are as believes leads to actions and actions lead to suffering (to paraphrase Yoda :) ).

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 06:40 PM
No one has to accept anyone else's opinion or belief if they disagree with it, but everyone IS entitled to have their own opinions and beliefs as well.
Yes...Thank you

Spider_Sith9
07-31-2013, 06:44 PM
Homosexuals are just people who are attracted to/love someone from the same gender, there's nothing bad about it.

I really wouldn't mind a homosexual character, and I think Ubisoft could pull it off. Well, Leonardo was obvioussly gay, and I think they handled it pretty well.

You really believe that? More like Ubisoft shoved it down our throats. :P

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 06:48 PM
Nope. here`s what you misunderstood.

"History proves you wrong" Ahhh so there`s an instance where Homosexuals were prosecuted for no reason?? Obviously no..
"That`s never happened" Ahhhh see? if the belief that Homosexuality is wrong disappears, then everything would be fine....no

See what I`m trying to say and said in the previous posts is that the thought of a certain group being wrong does not ALWAYS lead to prosecution, which means that the thought of it being wrong disappearing will NOT end Homosexual bullying or discrimination. lots of "homosexuality is wrong" believers treat Homosexuals fine...they don`t bully them and they don`t discriminate...

People get bullied when nothing is different in them or perceived as wrong in them. bullying will exist whether or not the belief of something being wrong exists.

In short, perceiving something as wrong does NOT ALWAYS mean prosecution, murder and bullying...quite simply


I completely agree that believeing something does not ALWAYS lead to certain actions (as I stated in one of my previous posts). Clearly the vast majority of people who thinks homosexuality is wrong never cause them any harm. However I do not agree that this means the belief itself is not overall harmful. No belief, no problem!




Yes...a ***** goes into a ******....I think we all know that. But if someone is not sexually attracted to the opposite sex what reason would they have to have intercourse?

There would be a drastic decline in child births and that cannot be argued

...really the real words for our sexual organs get bleeped? lol


Not necessarily. Gay people long for kids too you know. I don't think a gay only society would have any problem at all to sustain its population.

Kaschra
07-31-2013, 06:49 PM
You really believe that? More like Ubisoft shoved it down our throats. :P

Believe what?
Well, AC Leo was gay, real life Leo possibly too. I don't get the probem?

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 06:51 PM
No belief, no problem!

*sigh* right...again...keep telling yourself that...you`v provided no retorts and your posts are actually hypocritical...or ironic to say the least. This discussion has no place here in of itself....i`m done

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 06:57 PM
*sigh* right...again...keep telling yourself that...you`v provided no retorts and your posts are actually hypocritical...or ironic to say the least. This discussion has no place here in of itself....i`m done

Sorry I really can't comprehend your argument. I'm sure it makes sense somewhere inside your brain.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 06:59 PM
Sorry I really can't comprehend your argument. I'm sure it makes sense somewhere inside your brain.
Awwww....

JimmySaysUDie
07-31-2013, 07:01 PM
Like I said previously, the OP just posted this thread to stir the pot on an issue that goes far beyond a video game forum.

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 07:02 PM
To think that homosexuality is wrong is ok because these are your beliefs, thoughts and opinions but to go and make a homosexual feel bad about themselves or insult and bully them just because you think it's wrong, is totally not ok.

Everyone has the right to like and dislike whatever they want, the only problem is when they try to express that hatred or dislike publicly, hurting others' feelings.





Like I said previously, the OP just posted this thread to stir the pot on an issue that goes far beyond a video game forum.

No, you are wrong because I idolized the game Mass Effect and hoped for something similar. What you think of my intentions is your responsibility, not mine.

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 07:04 PM
You really believe that? More like Ubisoft shoved it down our throats. :P

Lol

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 07:04 PM
To think that homosexuality is wrong is ok because these are your beliefs, thoughts and opinions but to go and make a homosexual feel bad about themselves or insult and bully them just because you think it's wrong, is totally not ok.

Everyone has the right to like and dislike whatever they want, the only problem is when they try to express that hatred or dislike publicly, hurting others' feelings.
Yes....thank you...some people just like to play the role of the never ending light of Justice and be all holier than though...

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 07:05 PM
Yes....thank you...some people just like to play the role of the never ending light of Justice and be all holier than though...

You're welcome! It's true... many people like to shove their religious or their atheist points of view down others' throats and that is not ok.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 07:07 PM
You're welcome! It's true... many people like to shove their religious or their atheist points of view down others' throats and that is not ok.
Indeed.

Lass4r
07-31-2013, 07:16 PM
My immediate, honest reaction: LOL xD

My politically correct reaction: Sure, why not? As long as it is not in any way central to the story and doesn't take away from the badass-factor.

JimmySaysUDie
07-31-2013, 07:18 PM
RinoTheBouncer - you have been level-headed in your responses and have made valid points. I certainly did not intend to disrespect or belittle anyone's personal preferences. My apologies if I did.

I just wanted to represent one side of the debate which few were willing to do.


No, you are wrong because I idolized the game Mass Effect and hoped for something similar. What you think of my intentions is your responsibility, not mine.


Perhaps I misconstrued your intentions as you have pointed out to me.

I did not however play Mass Effect - I presumme the main character was G/L and since this game was successful, why wouldn't a G/L Assassins game be?

Spider_Sith9
07-31-2013, 07:19 PM
Believe what?
Well, AC Leo was gay, real life Leo possibly too. I don't get the probem?

Possibly ;)

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 07:20 PM
My immediate, honest reaction: LOL xD

My politically correct reaction: Sure, why not? As long as it is not in any way central to the story and doesn't take away from the badass-factor.

bahaha I like this reaction xD

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 07:22 PM
RinoTheBouncer - you have been level-headed in your responses and have made valid points. I certainly did not intend to disrespect or belittle anyone's personal preferences. My apologies if I did.

I just wanted to represent one side of the debate which few were willing to do.



Perhaps I misconstrued your intentions as you have pointed out to me.

I did not however play Mass Effect - I presumme the main character was G/L and since this game was successful, why wouldn't a G/L Assassins game be?

It is alright. I have played the entire Mass Effect franchise and I was extremely happy to see them representing different sexualities in a very natural manner, free of stereotypes and without focusing on them like they're the core of the game, they just made it like any other side quest that you can choose to get involved in or avoid, as you please.

I was happy to see that there's no longer stereotypes like "Gay = Feminine" or "Gay = Has psychological and relationship problems and are outcasts of their societies" because a gay person can be a hero, can be a fighter, can be a doctor, can be an engineer and can be as masculine, as responsible, as happy, as serious and as good as any other man and the same applies for lesbian women. So I had hoped that something like that is added to the AC franchise. I know the game does not "need" such things to exist but since straight relationships are seen, why not others as well?

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 07:37 PM
To think that homosexuality is wrong is ok because these are your beliefs, thoughts and opinions but to go and make a homosexual feel bad about themselves or insult and bully them just because you think it's wrong, is totally not ok.

Everyone has the right to like and dislike whatever they want, the only problem is when they try to express that hatred or dislike publicly, hurting others' feelings.

Completely agree and this is a very important distinction to be made. People have the right to hold whatever believes they want to. However they do NOT have the right to voice this belief in public (like in a forum for example) without being criticized for it. In particular when the belief is about a certain group being inferior it's importnt that this view is criticized.



Yes....thank you...some people just like to play the role of the never ending light of Justice and be all holier than though...

I'm not playing a role, I'm a strong believer in human rights. I have seen how one of my friends has suffered for being gay, even in a relatively tolerant society such as Sweden. The hatred towards gays is a massive disgrace and I will speak up against whenever I can. If you think I'm pathetic because of it, well that's your problem.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 07:40 PM
The hatred towards gays is a massive disgrace and I will speak up against whenever I can. If you think I'm pathetic because of it, well that's your problem.
didn't see any hatred towards Gays here.....so Yeah I think you`re pathetic..

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 07:43 PM
didn't see any hatred towards Gays here.....so Yeah I think you`re pathetic..

Noted

ladyleonhart
07-31-2013, 07:44 PM
I'm not playing a role, I'm a strong believer in human rights. I have seen how one of my friends has suffered for being gay, even in a relatively tolerant society such as Sweden. The hatred towards gays is a massive disgrace and I will speak up against whenever I can.

I just wanted to say that I am very sorry that your friend experienced that and it must have been very traumatic. However, I don't think anyone was trying to make it personal or intending to hurt anyone.

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 07:45 PM
Completely agree and this is a very important distinction to be made. People have the right to hold whatever believes they want to. However they do NOT have the right to voice this belief in public (like in a forum for example) without being criticized for it. In particular when the belief is about a certain group being inferior it's importnt that this view is criticized.

Totally! It's ok to love and hate what you like yet it's not ok to make those who love what you hate or hate what you love feel inferior because of that, especially in such matter. With political stuff, people fight all the time because it usually has to do with war and all like for example, an American and an Iraqi discussing war and politics, there's gotta be some sort of argument since the war hurt one sides..etc. but with sexuality, nobody is hurting nobody. If I chose to love a man, why does that insult you? why does that motivate anybody to get angry or disgusted or annoyed? it's my life, my body, my heart, my soul, my choice... so yeah, freedom of speech aside, people shouldn't hurt one another for what they do with themselves, be it religion, sexuality or anything similar.

Btw, the Sushi in your sig is orgasmic! <3

pirate1802
07-31-2013, 07:46 PM
Btw, the Sushi in your sig is orgasmic! <3

His sig always distracts me from his posts. Its a hidden tactic!

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 07:47 PM
I just wanted to say that I am very sorry that your friend experienced that and it must have been very traumatic. However, I don't think anyone was trying to make it personal or intending to hurt anyone.

I'm sure they weren't, but the general belief that homosexuality is wrong is very problematic and the root to the violence against gays. So I feel the need to speak up against it, sorry.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 07:49 PM
the general belief that homosexuality is wrong is very problematic and the root to the violence against gays.
Nope

Jexx21
07-31-2013, 07:50 PM
Another solution to stop the violence against gay:

If everyone thought violence was wrong, there would be no persecution.

violence includes insults and social ostracizing since they can be just as harmful to people as a beating.

TheHumanTowel
07-31-2013, 07:51 PM
Nope
Take it to pms

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 07:52 PM
Take it to pms
Nah...I`ll just stop now. promise

Jexx21
07-31-2013, 07:53 PM
Take it to pms
..I don't want a period.. I'm a guy..

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 07:54 PM
His sig always distracts me from his posts. Its a hidden tactic!

YEAH! totally :P


Another solution to stop the violence against gay:

If everyone thought violence was wrong, there would be no persecution.

violence includes insults and social ostracizing since they can be just as harmful to people as a beating.

I agree. Cyber-bullying is also a type of bullying, because everyone acts like a hero behind a keyboard and type whatever they want from insults, death wishes or any kind of hatred and profanity and it's just as painful as it is when done face-to-face.

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 07:54 PM
Totally! It's ok to love and hate what you like yet it's not ok to make those who love what you hate or hate what you love feel inferior because of that, especially in such matter. With political stuff, people fight all the time because it usually has to do with war and all like for example, an American and an Iraqi discussing war and politics, there's gotta be some sort of argument since the war hurt one sides..etc. but with sexuality, nobody is hurting nobody. If I chose to love a man, why does that insult you? why does that motivate anybody to get angry or disgusted or annoyed? it's my life, my body, my heart, my soul, my choice... so yeah, freedom of speech aside, people shouldn't hurt one another for what they do with themselves, be it religion, sexuality or anything similar.

Btw, the Sushi in your sig is orgasmic! <3

Exactly, people have the right to pursue happiness as long as it's not hurting anyone else. Being gay is something private. I don't even know what "homosexuality is wrong" is supposed to mean. I mean it's a phenomena in nature. How can something like that be "wrong"?

Haha my sig does look juicy. It expensive as it makes me eat even more sushi :).

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 07:57 PM
Another solution to stop the violence against gay:

If everyone thought violence was wrong, there would be no persecution.

violence includes insults and social ostracizing since they can be just as harmful to people as a beating.

Yes this would work too. However It's easier to fight the belief than to stop all violence. For example jews were herassed a lot in Sweden in the thirties. Not so much these days (even though it certainly is a problem, in particular in some areas). Believes do change. Violence seems harder (both are very hard) to get rid of.

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 07:59 PM
Exactly, people have the right to pursue happiness as long as it's not hurting anyone else. Being gay is something private. I don't even know what "homosexuality is wrong" is supposed to mean. I mean it's a phenomena in nature. How can something like that be "wrong"?

Haha my sig does look juicy. It expensive as it makes me eat even more sushi :).

Yeah. Even when you're religious, your beliefs are yours. For example, a religious woman who wears a certain type of headdress believes that not wearing that is wrong, but she can still be friends with other women who don't wear that without having to tell them that they're wrong from her perspective. This is what it means to be human. To be happy that you're practicing what you believe in and what you desire and at the same time being happy that others do that too without ending the friendship between you two.

Sushi and Steak are my No.1 meals!

silvermercy
07-31-2013, 08:01 PM
The sad thing is that even if every injustice in the world was solved now, people, sooner or later, would find a way to fight each other. Like persecuting people who like the color blue instead of red. It seems to be human nature.

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2013, 08:08 PM
The sad thing is that even if every injustice in the world was solved now, people, sooner or later, would find a way to fight each other. Like persecuting people who like the color blue instead of red. It seems to be human nature.EXACTLY!People on Twitter tweet a reporter "I wish you die of AIDS" just because he spoke negatively about Lady Gaga. Can you imagine?

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 08:10 PM
The sad thing is that even if every injustice in the world was solved now, people, sooner or later, would find a way to fight each other. Like persecuting people who like the color blue instead of red. It seems to be human nature.

Yes, but the problem can be more or less severe. Modern states are much better than they were a century ago in these areas. Progress can be made. There are plenty of laws against discrimination, racism and hate towards gays is very rare in public discourse (will be heavily criticized immediately for the most part) etc. I'm optimistic about these things, because the direction is the right one. People will still have prejudice and be mean to eachother on a personal level. But society as a whole has and will improve.


EXACTLY!People on Twitter tweet a reporter "I wish you die of AIDS" just because he spoke negatively about Lady Gaga. Can you imagine?

Something has to be done about the culture on the internet.... I don't know what, but atm it's very poisonous.

Spider_Sith9
07-31-2013, 08:38 PM
Why is it that every time discuss a theme or something it turns into an actual debate? You guys are serious about your beliefs! People sympathized with the Templars. An actual debate over should we impose strict order as the primary law to things. Homosexual Assassin? An actual debate about Homosexuality and it's beliefs on abuse.


I agree. Cyber-bullying is also a type of bullying, because everyone acts like a hero behind a keyboard and type whatever they want from insults, death wishes or any kind of hatred and profanity and it's just as painful as it is when done face-to-face.

People justify it by saying "It's the internet. Let it roll off your back." It's never that simple. Just like suicide. As a victim of ALOT of Cyber-Bulling (here included) I wholeheartedly agree. Even Moderators can at times be abusive as The Rakata.



Something has to be done about the culture on the internet.... I don't know what, but atm it's very poisonous.

Well censorship is out of the question. S.972 Bill proved that. You know what "they" can do. And yes, people are finally taking these issues to fluition now. Both Physical and Cyber-Bullying. The internet is nasty.

stingray110
07-31-2013, 08:48 PM
Nope

What does your 'Nope' mean?

In my opinion, i don't think it really matters whether they are gay or straight, it wouldn't really affect my pleasurability of playing the game. And if it does so for you, then you may have a problem.

FrankieSatt
07-31-2013, 08:51 PM
I wouldn't buy the game.

I will leave it at that as this isn't the place for political or religious discussions.

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 08:52 PM
What does your 'Nope' mean?

In my opinion, i don't think it really matters whether they are gay or straight, it wouldn't really affect my pleasurability of playing the game. And if it does so for you, then you may have a problem.
That post has nothing to do with whether or not I`d be okay with a Homosexual protagonist -_-

That post is part of an entire argument that actually is off-topic.

Check my earlier posts

stingray110
07-31-2013, 08:56 PM
That post has nothing to do with whether or not I`d be okay with a Homosexual protagonist -_-

That post is part of an entire argument that actually is off-topic.

Check my earlier posts

I know, i wsn't targeting you with my statement :') Will do!

Assassin_M
07-31-2013, 08:58 PM
I know, i wsn't targeting you with my statement :')
Apologies then..

Bastiaen
07-31-2013, 09:08 PM
Muslims believe that every other religion is wrong, Christians believe every other Religion is wrong, Jews believe that every other Religion is wrong and so on and so forth. Bullying, discrimination and murder are outrageous and vile..the thought of something being wrong is NOT what triggers these senseless acts...it`s the same idea where in some areas, different religions live peacefully and co-exist while in others everyone kills each other....both places have groups which believe that their ideas are right and others` wrong, but both conditions exist...one place where a group is discriminated against and is killed, while the other place has no such conflict and everyone lives peacefully..

You`re wrong, basically...you`re free to criticize and judge, although it`d be ironic, but it`s simply not true that the thought of Homosexuality being wrong is what triggers these acts, since MANY societies functioned and still do with groups thinking others are wrong..

Thanks M. It really does amaze me how we can act so open minded until someone has an opinion that isn't seen as open minded. Then we close off from it completely. I never have, and never will condone violence of any kind. The same goes for bullying and persecution. My opinions about the ethics of sexuality don't have any bearing on the twisted actions of others. I'm sorry that Sushi can't respect my opinion, but I understand and respect his, even if I disagree with it.

OSantaClownO
07-31-2013, 09:22 PM
Thanks M. It really does amaze me how we can act so open minded until someone has an opinion that isn't seen as open minded. Then we close off from it completely. I never have, and never will condone violence of any kind. The same goes for bullying and persecution. My opinions about the ethics of sexuality don't have any bearing on the twisted actions of others. I'm sorry that Sushi can't respect my opinion, but I understand and respect his, even if I disagree with it.

But I can't really be open-minded with a person who isn't open minded for other people.

There are people who are gay - it's a fact.
Thinking there is something wrong with them seems really closed-mined, When I see a closed minded opinion, I don't think that opinion should be respected with open mind.

If you can tell me why your opinion isn't really closed-minded, I would love that.

Also guys, lets keep this thread not personal.

Kagurra
07-31-2013, 09:24 PM
Leonardo was homosexual... he even had that "assistant" in Brotherhood.

At least bi-sexual. Albeit he wasn't an assassin, but still a major character (one of my favorites) and aided assassins.

Also pretty sure they told us this in a codex unlock.

stingray110
07-31-2013, 09:34 PM
But I can't really be open-minded with a person who isn't open minded for other people.

There are people who are gay - it's a fact.
Thinking there is something wrong with them seems really closed-mined, When I see a closed minded opinion, I don't think that opinion should be respected with open mind.

If you can tell me why your opinion isn't really closed-minded, I would love that.

Also guys, lets keep this thread not personal.

This

Sushiglutton
07-31-2013, 09:35 PM
Thanks M. It really does amaze me how we can act so open minded until someone has an opinion that isn't seen as open minded. Then we close off from it completely. I never have, and never will condone violence of any kind. The same goes for bullying and persecution. My opinions about the ethics of sexuality don't have any bearing on the twisted actions of others. I'm sorry that Sushi can't respect my opinion, but I understand and respect his, even if I disagree with it.


Sorry I can't respect your opinion as little as I can respect the idea that jews are an inferior race (do you respect this latter opinion?). Believes like these are dangerous and detrimental to society. If there is a general consensus in society that homosexuality is wrong it will inevitably lead to some individuals taking actions to "correct it".

This does not mean that I don't respect you as a human being. But I urge you to consider the rationality of your judgement of this group of people.