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Red_Storm
04-03-2004, 05:15 PM
I have a few questions regarding the Thompson Model 1927A1. I'm looking into bidding on one on the internet (http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=17288405), so first off, is this site reliable? Has any of you had any experience with it? The second question is for people in the Netherlands, will the gun be legal here if you remove the firing pin, if not, what must be done to legalise it. My last question may sound rather stupid, but what version of the Tommygun was the famous 1930 gangster one, the Model 1928 or the Model 1927? Or were both used? Thanks.

Red_Storm
04-03-2004, 05:15 PM
I have a few questions regarding the Thompson Model 1927A1. I'm looking into bidding on one on the internet (http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=17288405), so first off, is this site reliable? Has any of you had any experience with it? The second question is for people in the Netherlands, will the gun be legal here if you remove the firing pin, if not, what must be done to legalise it. My last question may sound rather stupid, but what version of the Tommygun was the famous 1930 gangster one, the Model 1928 or the Model 1927? Or were both used? Thanks.

PBNA-Boosher
04-03-2004, 05:25 PM
The famous Gangster model of the Thompson is the 1927. as for the rest of the questions, I don't know.

Red_Storm
04-03-2004, 05:35 PM
Thanks!

Taylortony
04-03-2004, 06:08 PM
Is that a cutts compensator on the end of the barrel? Ir the removing the firing pin is meant to deacticate it, i think it wont as its a simple thing to replace, to deactivate a gun they normally block the barrel dont they?

Korolov
04-03-2004, 06:43 PM
If you're planning on shooting it, forget it. If you want to display it, go for it. But you'll have to fill the barrel up and probably remove dozens of parts.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

SkyChimp
04-03-2004, 07:26 PM
The Tommy Gun was (is) made by Auto Ordnance. Check out their site. It will you a little.

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_front_lg.html

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/images/t1.jpg

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/wildsig.jpg

Jagdgeschwader2
04-03-2004, 07:29 PM
Here are some links for you Red. I have kicked around the thought of buying one of the Auto Ordinace semiauto M1's. They have the required sixteen inch barrels. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gifI love 45's! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gifI've got a Colt Commander and a Colt Goverment Model.

******That furry critter beat me to it!*******

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_ao.html

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_t1sb_f.html


http://www.subguns.com/


http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_front_new.html


http://home.earthlink.net/~jagdgeschwader26/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/12.jpg

A speck of dirt on your windscreen could turn into an enemy fighter in the time it took to look round and back again. A little smear on your goggles might hide the plane that was coming in to kill you.
Derek Robinson
From the book Piece of Cake.

tttiger
04-03-2004, 07:37 PM
I don't know where you're getting your info but since I used to collect full auto Thompsons:

The 1921 Model is the full auto "gangster model"

The 1928A1 full auto was built originally for the US Navy and used by all services and later lend leased in large numbers to the UK. The military replaced the forward pistol grip with a horizontal forehand grip and got rid of the drum magazine.

The M1 and M1A1 were both full auto military models built in WWII. They got rid of the compensator, which was expensive to machine and of dubious value. The M1 had a moving firing pin, theM1A1 had a fixed firing pin on the face of the bolt.

Now...the M1927A1 is built today in semi-auto only by Auto Ordnance (which still exists). It has a longer barrel, so it is really nothing more than a .45 cal. rifle. It is legal anywhere a rifle is legal. They also make a semi-auto M1Al. The parts that make the real Thompson full auto are not interchangeable with the current semi-auto version.

In the US, they usually disable the full auto MGs by cutting the receiver (you can always replace a barrel, it just screws in on the Thompson). To make a "dummy" weapon, there are companies that make a "dummy" receiver with no moving parts that has been approved by ATF.

Hope that helps. All this stuff can be found on the internet btw.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

Arms1
04-04-2004, 01:37 AM
i heard you could mail order it to your door via us mail (when it was first produced), greatest photo of the weapon...WSC looking all business!

Red_Storm
04-04-2004, 01:57 AM
Great! Thanks a lot guys!

Red_Storm
04-04-2004, 02:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
I don't know where you're getting your info but since I used to collect full auto Thompsons:

The 1921 Model is the full auto "gangster model"

The 1928A1 full auto was built originally for the US Navy and used by all services and later lend leased in large numbers to the UK. The military replaced the forward pistol grip with a horizontal forehand grip and got rid of the drum magazine.

The M1 and M1A1 were both full auto military models built in WWII. They got rid of the compensator, which was expensive to machine and of dubious value. The M1 had a moving firing pin, theM1A1 had a fixed firing pin on the face of the bolt.

Now...the M1927A1 is built today in semi-auto only by Auto Ordnance (which still exists). It has a longer barrel, so it is really nothing more than a .45 cal. rifle. It is legal anywhere a rifle is legal. They also make a semi-auto M1Al. The parts that make the real Thompson full auto are not interchangeable with the current semi-auto version.

In the US, they usually disable the full auto MGs by cutting the receiver (you can always replace a barrel, it just screws in on the Thompson). To make a "dummy" weapon, there are companies that make a "dummy" receiver with no moving parts that has been approved by ATF.

Hope that helps. All this stuff can be found on the internet btw.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you own a Model 1921 yourself? I've done some searching and found that they go for well over $5,000.00.

Also, could anyone from the Netherlands inform me wether or not it's legal to own a dummy gun? I know it's strictly forbidden to own a firearm, but I've checked the laws and I haven't found any mention of dummy guns.

Jagdgeschwader2
04-04-2004, 02:49 AM
Also, could anyone from the Netherlands inform me wether or not it's legal to own a dummy gun? I know it's strictly forbidden to own a firearm, but I've checked the laws and I haven't found any mention of dummy guns.[/QUOTE]
****************************************

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gifTough time finding anything specific to replica arms. Try looking here although I don't know if it will help you any.
Man tough to own anything in Europe. They would have a field day with me! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

[URL=http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0513/guns/laws.html]


http://www.afn.org/~afn18566/

http://www.issf-shooting.org/



********************************************
Compare these countries to how loose US laws are! Glad we have the NRA. I've yet to get my concealed carry permit. Too busy lazy etc....
********************************************
Finland
-------
Permit requires a good reason. Pocket pistols (i.e. barrel &lt; 4") are very difficult to get (usually for security officer). Full auto are very hard to get (need to be considered as a collector).

France
------
Permit is difficult to obtain. you cannot own more than on "war caliber" (i.e. 9mm, .380 ACP, .40 S&W, .45ACP). Carry is illegal

Germany (Hunter information thanks to Lars Stein)
-------
If you are considered as target shooter, you can only have 2-3 small caliber gun (&lt;.32) and one large. Storage can be checked by police. Hunters may buy an unlimited number of guns &gt; 60 cm long. Handguns are limited to a total of two revolvers or pistols. Fully-automatic weapons are illegal. Rifles and shotguns are limited to 2+1 rounds. Hunters may only carry their gun to, from, and during hunting. Carrying in public is illegal without a hard-to-get special permit.

New-Zealand
-----------
Permit with picture is required and only valid for 10 years. Assault rifle requires particular license.

South Africa
------------
Permit with fingerprint required. Full auto and semi auto rifles are very difficult to obtain. Concealed carry is allowed. no restriction on handguns.

Sweden
-------
Need permit and a good reason to buy firearm. Full auto forbidden. carry is illegal. no limit on the number of guns (depends on your needs).

Switzerland
------------
Permit is required but easy to get. no limitation of caliber or number of guns. Full auto available for collectors only. Concealed carry is legal except in 2 states.

The Netherlands
----------------
You can ask for a permit after a year of membership in a club. Need certificate from the club. No more than 5 guns. Full auto is illegal.

United Kingdom
---------------
Need good reason to buy a gun (this is discretionary). Carry is illegal. Police ensure for secure storage and use of the gun (discretionary as well). You have to be member of a club.

USA********************************************
---
No real permit, just fill in a form at the gun store. Full Auto is available but strictly regulated. Concealed carry is legal. Some restriction may be brought by state/county or city laws.



Look how loose US laws are!

A speck of dirt on your windscreen could turn into an enemy fighter in the time it took to look round and back again. A little smear on your goggles might hide the plane that was coming in to kill you.
Derek Robinson
From the book Piece of Cake.

[This message was edited by Jagdgeschwader2 on Sun April 04 2004 at 03:00 AM.]

Red_Storm
04-04-2004, 02:59 AM
Thank you! I really appreciate all this information. I'm going to carefully consider all options first, I do not want to rush into a buy. Thanks!

masamainio
04-04-2004, 02:36 PM
We haven't had any shootings at schools yet.

I guess the laws are too strict in Finland.....

Korolov
04-04-2004, 02:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by masamainio:
We haven't had any shootings at schools yet.

I guess the laws are too strict in Finland.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or maybe the fact that nobody in Finland has as serious mental problems as over here... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Jagdgeschwader2
04-04-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by masamainio:
We haven't had any shootings at schools yet.

I guess the laws are too strict in Finland.....
**********************************************

Yep although I'm sure this will piss off the NRA guys I think it should be a little more difficult to obtain a weapon here in the US.I'm a member of the NRA but I have a few opinions of my own. I mean the gun shop down the road from me sells 50 cal. Barret rifles! Do people really need to own this kind of firepower?The registration form to purchase a weapon is so stupid example:
Are you mentally disturbed? Yes No
Are you a fugitive from justice? Yes No
I think there should be more background information required of the gun owner and also a competency test. I would not mind at all if I had to wait longer than 7 days to get my new gun. What's a few days or a month going to hurt if you can keep a weapon from getting into the hands of someone that has no business owning any kind of firearm?I'm glad to be a firearm owner though and I believe you have the right to defend your family and your property.
Part of the problem here in the US is the way people are educated about firearms and how they raise their children. I'm from Texas and we always had guns around the house but when I was a kid I never saw them
as anything other than tools. I never had the urge to show them off to my friends or ever take them from the house. I think a lot of this had to do with how my parents raised me.
Kids today watch all this junk they show on television and that's where they get their influences from.Discipline your kids people and teach them about the real world.Gun ownership and automobile licenses as well are something that should be seen as privileges.Both automobiles and guns are deadly weapons in the hands of those that do not appreciate the seriousness of operating these machines.People need to earn the right of these privileges.

&gt;S&lt;

A speck of dirt on your windscreen could turn into an enemy fighter in the time it took to look round and back again. A little smear on your goggles might hide the plane that was coming in to kill you.
Derek Robinson
From the book Piece of Cake.

lil_labbit
04-04-2004, 05:51 PM
Hi

I dont think it's legal - even if its disassembled.

Ask Customs services.
(They still exist)

Also watch out for em - they might take a hefty import - fee (if they say its ok - let it be send as a gift)....

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day

Korolov
04-04-2004, 06:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jagdgeschwader2:
I mean the gun shop down the road from me sells 50 cal. Barret rifles! Do people really need to own this kind of firepower?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Up in Alaska, maybe. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Fehler
04-05-2004, 05:13 AM
I agree with you Jagdgeschwader2. Education is the key to gun safety.

I have a lot of guns. I have taught my children how to use them properly, always stressing safety. Because of this, I am very confident that the mystique of wanting to play with "The forbidden object" is absent in my household. If they want to go shooting, they just ask, "Dad, can we go to the range?" Minutes later we are in the car to go blast some targets, I assure you! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Guns are dangerous, for sure. But cars are worse. Most people that dont own a gun think of owning one with fear. Yet they get into their automobile, and try to drive the speed of light while passing another car by inches, and think nothing of it.

Here in Texas we have pretty lax gun laws. With a clean background anyone can apply for and get a concealed handgun license.

You can also carry a gun (Pistol) while travelling, if you are a business owner, going to and from recreational shooting ranges, and a host of other activities without permit.

Other than the ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms - all the really really BAD things in our society - LOL) restrictions on length or capacity, there are no provisions for carrying a shotgun or rifle in your vehicle at all.

The caliber of the weapon is really irrelavent in my (Expert) opinion. I have seen more homicides committed with small caliber weapons .22-.380 than the larger caliber weapons, and that is a fact. A person that can actually afford to buy a Barret 50 cal is more than likely a collector and a person of fairly good standing, and NOT likely going to become a sniper. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It's the cheap, crap guns that people tend to use to kill their fellow man.

When I went bear hunting in Alaska, I wouldnt have minded having one of those 50 cal rifles! (Along with my shotgun slung holding 00Buck, slug, 00buck, slug, and a good 45 long colt as well!)

Oh on a more sarcastic note... I still (As of yet) have not seen a gun jump up off the counter or out of the gun cabinet and shoot someone. It still takes a person to pull the trigger me thinks.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

Aaron_GT
04-05-2004, 05:31 AM
I used to collect WW2 US
equipment and do reenactment
and we had close links with
a Dutch group. Basically
that gun will not be legal
in the Netherlands more or
less whatever you do to it.
I don't think even ones
deactivated to current UK
standards (which are much
more strict than when I had
my M1903 deactivated in
1989) would be legal over
there. I think your best
bet will be a model kit (
accurate action) or some
sort of inert replica. Due
to apparently (wouldn't
want to fire one of these!)
air weapons and blank
firers being converted to
real firearms these may not
be legal.

Bizzarely the friend to
whom I sold the M1903 moved
to France where they would
much rather you have a fully
functional rifle than a
deactivated one! Mostly they
seemed concerned his jeep
might contain asbestos.

Dimensionaut_
04-05-2004, 06:40 AM
Just removing the pin won't be enough. It should be made completely unusable. As I've heard that's most often done by filling the barrel with lead.

And even then I think that it isn't allowed in the Netherlands, since you can still use it to threaten. Even too real looking toy guns are forbidden here.

And officially you are not allowed to view or bid in eBay categories where weapons etc. are being sold.

<A HREF="http://www.1java.org/sh" TARGET=_blank>
http://www.uploadit.org/1javaserval/images.php
</A>