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View Full Version : Who had a stick but changed to a yoke? Anyone?



BaldieJr
07-25-2004, 09:32 PM
I'm sick and tired of these sticks!

I'm betting a yoke would be more precise because of the simpler centering mechanism. Any comments from yoke users?

BaldieJr
07-25-2004, 09:32 PM
I'm sick and tired of these sticks!

I'm betting a yoke would be more precise because of the simpler centering mechanism. Any comments from yoke users?

Farkitt_
07-25-2004, 09:39 PM
Be good for Simulating the P-38 and He-111.

And the Beaufighter and Mosquito when we get em


FLYING MY AIRCRAFT:
"C O U N T R Y GAL"
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VOL_Hans
07-25-2004, 09:49 PM
Wold need pedals to match wouldn't we?

I might get a yoke and pedal set up... Use the stick for flying fighters, yoke for Ju-88, He-111, P-38 and other planes with a yoke...

Maybe the 110 too. I know the Bf-110 had a stick, but it feels more like a plane that would have a yoke...

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

Dawg-of-death
07-25-2004, 10:32 PM
I would like to have one for FS2004. Throttles also(300bucks ouch). Fighters use stik.
I have a MS sidewinder. Ive got 2 and wish I would of bought more.
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S~

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

tsisqua
07-25-2004, 10:46 PM
I would like a yoke with force feedback. My flying improved dramaticaly after getting a FFB stick. I feel the stall coming much quicker. I think that they do exist, but they are steep on the price tag.

Hmm . . . according to another thread that makes me a cheater . . . I got better hardware, now I have an unfair advantage. Wait . . . does that mean that people with sticks have an unfair advantage over those who cannot afford one, and are forced to use the dreaded arrow keys? Damn! I guess that most of us are cheaters.


I'm off to throw away my stick now . . . NOT!


Tsisqua

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-bird1.JPG

arcadeace
07-25-2004, 10:52 PM
I also think a yoke for a sim like FS2004 and future aviation sims would be nice, accept for helicopters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But for realism with a CFS I wouldn't want anything but a stick. I have a TM Afterburner II and it centers perfect as far as I can see. From what I've heard there are a number of sticks that do. I don't understand?

BennyMoore
07-26-2004, 01:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:
Hmm . . . according to another thread that makes me a cheater . . . I got better hardware, now I have an unfair advantage. Wait . . . does that mean that people with sticks have an unfair advantage over those who cannot afford one<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know perfectly well that a joystick gives you a realistic advantage, while the issue on the other thread was about an unrealistic advantage.

Go play something unrealistic and leave us alone!

WTE_Galway
07-26-2004, 01:40 AM
would use a yoke if their were FFB versions around

though the annoying false effect of trim on a FFB stick where the stick remains centred regardless of trim setting (in a real plane you spin the trim wheel the stick moves) would be much more moticeable on a yoke

TX-EcoDragon
07-26-2004, 02:04 AM
I have used my yoke a few times in FB for the bombers, and fewer times in fighters, and while it was cool inthe bombers, its pretty cumbersome in the fighters, especially when it comes to gunnery. If centering is a problem, perhaps adding just a little deadband to your set up might help you out. I have none, and all sesnsitivity values maxed, and actually found the yoke more difficult to keep at dead center as it (CH USB) doesn't have any real forceful centering mechanism.

S!
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SKIDRO_79FS
07-26-2004, 02:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:


You know perfectly well that a joystick gives you a _realistic_ advantage, while the issue on the other thread was about an _unrealistic_ advantage.

Go play something unrealistic and leave us alone!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Benny you're not making many friends on here, in fact you're awful close to attaining "troll status" with comments like this. Now be a nice boy and go play in traffic.

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VICTORY BY VALOR, GENTLEMEN TO THE END

Sambt
07-26-2004, 06:29 AM
I have been using a CH Pro Yoke for all planes to include fighters.



Tried a stick but find the yoke is more precise for me. Once you get use to it you will be confortable with it in fighters as well.
Sam

tsisqua
07-26-2004, 09:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:
Hmm . . . according to another thread that makes me a cheater . . . I got better hardware, now I have an unfair advantage. Wait . . . does that mean that people with sticks have an unfair advantage over those who cannot afford one<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know perfectly well that a joystick gives you a _realistic_ advantage, while the issue on the other thread was about an _unrealistic_ advantage.

Go play something unrealistic and leave us alone!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Benny, I shouldn't have gone OT in this thread, for that I apologize.

My comment was intended to be a bit tongue-in-cheek where the actual stick is concerned, but not where FFB is concerned. It definitely gives me an advantage over the non-ffb user who cannot tell the onset of a stall as soon as I do.

I assume that telling me to move along is a knee-jerk response, and I forgive you, but you and I are in disagreement, be sure.

Tsisqua

edit: P.S. Look at my post count. Never a ban or a warning for me in all this time. That didn't happen by me being rude with my posts. There are alot of people here that can provide help, friendship, and someone to play with online; All things that are worth far more than a bad reputation. I'll tell you like I tell everyone else . . . if there's ever anything I can do for ya, just yell. Now, let's disagree about this issue like gentlemen.

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-bird1.JPG

[This message was edited by tsisqua on Mon July 26 2004 at 08:22 AM.]

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-26-2004, 09:30 AM
It strikes me that no matter what you use, sooner or later we all end up getting shot down in flames by some 10 year old using a keyboard and a mouse and a pentium2 with onboard g-card. I would bet that he couldnt give a flying fook how real it was. You're dead he ain't what you're using means nothing and he probably enjoyed the whole experiance a lot more for it.

If you can afford those kinda peripherals then I would say by all means get em if you can't don't. Or better still sell the lot and get a pilots license. Its all a question of taste and nobodies is the same. I have the stick the rudder and the track ir and I dont expect any of em to make me a good flier online or in the real world. Fact is its just a game enhancement.

Also it would seem to be making more trouble than it's worth to keep switching control methods from stick to yoke. Sure yoke would feel more appropriate for the heinkels and lightnings but then you are over specialising.

Sorry for going OT a bit here Baldie but with all the endless debate's on immersion, here seemed as good a place as any. I might add that my comments only really apply to the online fliers and if you're not one of those then the whole argument is kinda moot do what you like it aint hurting nobody but your bank account.

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tsisqua
07-26-2004, 09:46 AM
Baldie, I used to have an old flight-yoke that a friend bought for me at an auction. I had it set up pretty good, and used in with the P-38 in Jane's WWII Fighters. It was VERY immersive, and I would recomend it. I am just VERY SPOILED by my force feedback sticks.

Thank God . . . Back on topic.

Tsisqua

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-26-2004, 09:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Thank God . . . Back on topic.

Tsisqua<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL
Amen
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madsarmy
07-26-2004, 11:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:
I am just VERY SPOILED by my force feedback sticks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm with you on that one tsisqua. I don't think I could go back to a stick without FFB. You don't realise how differently each aircraft handles until you've got FFB.

Would like to see an X45 FFB version. Infact lots more FFB stick & yolks.
Are there any FFB pedals?

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"LOOK MUM NO HANDS!"

BennyMoore
07-26-2004, 11:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:
Now, let's disagree about this issue like gentlemen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suppose when you put it that way, I can't help but do so, but I still don't understand how you can disagree.

One question... Are you in doubt that the real Spitfires were unable to do what the slider bug lets you do, or do you know this but not care?

WTE_Galway
07-26-2004, 11:42 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by madsarmy:

Are there any FFB pedals?


[QUOTE]

would love FFB pedals i get a lazy right foot and tend to fly with way too much right rudder .. something its hard to do in real life because of the force on the pedals

Korolov
07-27-2004, 12:13 AM
I've considered getting a yoke to fly the Russian fighters and P-38 in full immersion, but alas as I don't have rudder pedals it makes it a poor proposition. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

BennyMoore
07-27-2004, 01:07 AM
What Russian fighters had yokes?

Korolov
07-27-2004, 01:27 AM
I-16, IL-2s, LaGGs, early Yaks, I-153... Probably some others, but not up for looking at them right now. The yoke they used was similar to a stick, cept had a wide handle with two triggers in the center, sorta like British fighter did. Not a yoke like what you'd see on a Cessna, but sort of a stick turned yoke.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

tsisqua
07-27-2004, 09:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:
Now, let's disagree about this issue like gentlemen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suppose when you put it that way, I can't help but do so, but I still don't understand _how_ you can disagree.

One question... Are you in doubt that the real Spitfires were unable to do what the slider bug lets you do, or do you know this but not care?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, Benny. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I've been looking around for the info that I had back when I was a Spit pilot in CFS . . . I was a member of the RAF112th, and we really researched the plane, Benny. Now the problem is that I am having a hard time remembering what info was about the real Spit, and what info was about our CFS Spit, and we all know what a realistic FM the CFS version had . . . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

But honestly, I am very reluctant to call someone a cheat based on the hardware that they own. Probably 50% of the people here have a HOTAS setup, and alot of others would have it, if as you say, they could afford it. To me, that is almost like giving you options in the game that affect realism, even on full difficulty settings, and then calling you a cheater for using them. People have paid for their CH, and Cougar, etc . . . peripherals with hard-earned money. (Like I said, all I have is a FFB stick) To bring this issue to Oleg's Ready Room for a suggestion to make a change in the code (since you believe that you have a legitimate gripe) would be a good idea. If Oleg considers this a problem, he will fix it. If he doesn't then he will not. After that, we all have to live with whatever he decides. If he decides that he won't change it, then we all have to fly with it as it is . . . and calling other players cheaters, IMO, well . . . I just think that would be going too far, and only serves to upset people that have saved for a year, or more, . . . fought with their wives, stole the money from their childrens' piggy banks, or whatever they had to do to get their HOTAS setup.

BTW, I tried bumping the flaps . . . on, then off . . . while turning. I definitely decreased my turn-time, and by toggling the flaps on and off could actually conserve some of my energy without my flaps locking up or ripping off because they never fully extended. So a pilot without a HOTAS can do this as well. Really not an issue for me, since I've only fly the P-38 these days http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , but I wanted to try it out because of our discussion here. If it was impossible to "recall" the flaps while they were in the process of deploying, then I would have to agree with you, in that it is a departure from realism.

Thanks for responding to my response that was a response to, er . . . your response . . LMAO http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (btw, If you present your argument this way in ORR, without losing your cool, you may actually get something done about it.)

Good to finally meet you, Benny
Tsisqua

horseback
07-27-2004, 09:52 AM
I think there's some confusion about what a stick is vs what a yoke is. A yoke is a unit that is pushed or pulled for elevator control (usually 'hinged' at the cockpit floor), but has a 'steering wheel' at its top to control the ailerons.

A stick is a solid tube or rod that the pilot 'stirs' at the handle end, and the control surface attachments are at the bottom, with the stick attached to the aircraft frame somewhere in between.

Generally, fighters used sticks and bombers used yokes, because the yoke conferred more of a leverage advantage (remember, it was mid war before a practical 'power boosted' system for aircraft was developed), and a stick provided more precise control (and most fighters were lighter and less physically demanding than multiengined a/c).

Many countries' AFs used sticks with a double handed grip, like a circle on top of the stick (the RAF referred to this as a 'spade' grip),as in the case of the Soviets. This was similar to the German and American joysticks, in that they were solid all the way down to the base, where they attached to the control cables.

The RAF used a sort of hybrid in the Spitfire, and I believe, the Hurricane. Like the yoke, the pilot pulled or pushed for elevator control, but the aileron control was a hinged portion about two thirds up the stick that bent up to something like 45 degrees left or right to pull the appropriate aileron control cable. Several other British produced fighters had a 'standard' stick with a 'spade' grip similar to the one on the hybrid.

That said, I tried using my yoke for FB, and it was so different from my stick that I was just totally erratic and unable to aim worth a damn.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

BaldieJr
07-27-2004, 07:58 PM
Well here is the deal...

I've got an Evo. I've got an X45. I've had a sidewinder pro and a few logitechs. The fact is: they all suck at center.

In desperation I've tried making my own stick and finally found the reson for all this suckage: gimbals. They use this stupid gimbal mechanism to drive the potetiometer, and thats what causes all the slop at center AND premature wear of potentiometers (the stick only moves about 1/6th of the pots' full deflection, which makes the dust accumlated on the surface of the carbon stip get pushed into a neat little pile, which eventually grows, and causes the thing to act flakey). The gimbal itself is a garbage idea because they make them from plastic (always wears out).

Also, you only get 1/6th the potentiometers value, which means you aren't getting a long smooth transition from 0 - max like you should. The devision is so small that voltage spikes simply must occur.

Soooo...

I want a yoke. I don't care if its historicly correct or not. A yoke will allow for full wiper deflection and that equals smooth operation and long life-span.

The problem is: I need a yoke handle with switch mounts. I can make one from wood, but I don't have the tools to make places to mount switches.

I don't want anything but the handle and the switches, which means I need to find a yoke that has internal problems.

If anyone has one that they would like to part with cheaply, please PM me. Thanks.