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View Full Version : Question about Customization/Outfits -- Stealth? If Zack could clarify it'd be awesom



BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-30-2013, 09:21 AM
As any regular forum member might be able to tell, I'm a Splinter Cell purist. I'd like to think that I'm not too hardnosed about things but I won't like, I like what I like about the Legacy games and I want that to return. So... this question ties into that. Specifically... what they've mentioned about the customization so far. It sounds awesome but I have somewhat of an issue with it...potentially. Scott Lee at MCM said that you can use the Upper Echelon suit through the entire game if you want (which is very tempting, not gonna lie) but at MCM as well as numerous other times -- the devs have discussed certain things which make me pause and...well question.

Namely comments such as "stealth boots make you quieter" but even more importantly how stealthier outfits will make Sam quieter but more susceptible to damage while heavier suits will offer more protection but be louder. Now this is fine. makes sense BUT...

Will heavy outfits make Sam super loud? As in, the heaviest combat suits will render stealth completely absent? What about the reversal -- will a full on stealth suit make Sam super quiet almost always (aside from things like whistling or shooting, etc.)

I have issues with this.... as a stealth player -- I don't want "helpers"... I don't want to be quieter when using a stealth suit. That renders the whole difficulty of stealth pretty much pointless. So... would heavier suits theoretically make stealth impossible -- or would it make you have to go at the slowest speed at all times? Because if that's the case... that sounds more up my alley. But unfortunately, to get that increase in difficulty for stealth, I have to wear a bulkier outfit that offers more protection.

Here are the potential things I see happening based on their statements:


Heavy outfits prevent Sam from being quiet, period. Solely for Action players. Stealth outfits will make Sam completely silent (such as with the special boots and whatnot)
Heavy outfits don't prevent stealth completely, they simply force players who want to go quiet to move slower since even the slightly faster speed will now make noise. Problem is, this is the type of sound detection I'd like, unfortunately I can only get it through heavy outfits.


Does everyone understand the perceived problem with what they're saying? If Zack could chime in, it'd be appreciated.

SCAgent95
06-30-2013, 09:36 AM
I understand your concern and where you are coming from, but only Zack can give you a full answer, i can only assume that every outfit has some stats towards stealth or assault.

Kit572
06-30-2013, 10:00 AM
.I have issues with this.... as a stealth player -- I don't want "helpers"... I don't want to be quieter when using a stealth suit. That renders the whole difficulty of stealth pretty much pointless. .I agree with you on this one. In Hitman: Absolution, you can sneak at any speed (Fast or Slow), and not get heard by enemies (Unless you were sprinting). This made the game a bit easier on professional difficulties, as you can move fast while crouched without getting heard. I don't want to see something like this again in a stealth game. It won't ruin the game for me, but It will make the game slightly easier.
.So... would heavier suits theoretically make stealth impossible -- or would it make you have to go at the slowest speed at all times? Because if that's the case... that sounds more up my alley. But unfortunately, to get that increase in difficulty for stealth, I have to wear a bulkier outfit that offers more protection..I hope that it doesn't make stealth impossible. When I am playing assault for a certain reason, I use stealth to approach enemies covertly to get the jump on them. You know, as a tactic to give me the upper hand. I understand that if your suit was extremely bulky, it would be harder to make less noise. But making it that you can't stealth entirely, even if you tip-toe, would be ridiculous.

shobhit7777777
06-30-2013, 03:19 PM
I don't think thats how it works

I think the suits give you a buff but that's it. A "Stealth" suit would basically affect the distances at which you're spotted and the rate at which you're recognized........so while it would make it easier to slip by...I think that it wouldn't make it completely stealthy.

Stealth suits...even the use of gadgets for that matter..are inherently "helpers"....but I doubt they will be game breaking

I think the dev team would not create customization options that would render their core gameplay and stealth systems obsolete.

MerriIl
06-30-2013, 07:30 PM
This question has been on my mind since they first announced values to pieces of clothing. I think Shobhit has the right idea; that stealth boots will maybe shorten the distance of the sound made, and the opposite for heavier armor. I do hope it's not a significant difference, because I don't want to play with the stealth armor if it's basically a handicap, yet I don't want to have to dress entirely in heavy armor either.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-30-2013, 07:50 PM
This question has been on my mind since they first announced values to pieces of clothing. I think Shobhit has the right idea; that stealth boots will maybe shorten the distance of the sound made, and the opposite for heavier armor. I do hope it's not a significant difference, because I don't want to play with the stealth armor if it's basically a handicap, yet I don't want to have to dress entirely in heavy armor either.

This is why I'll probably replay the first mission (or first mission where we get to customize out stuff) multiple times in various combinations because I want to figure out the game systems to see the difference in the armor and the sound among other things before advancing through the rest of the game haha

Kagurra
06-30-2013, 08:19 PM
This is why I'll probably replay the first mission (or first mission where we get to customize out stuff) multiple times in various combinations because I want to figure out the game systems to see the difference in the armor and the sound among other things before advancing through the rest of the game haha

You could probably use the stealth suits you want to use to blend into the shadows more effectively, and then use more combat oriented boots to give you that sound detection you're looking for.

MerriIl
06-30-2013, 08:22 PM
This is why I'll probably replay the first mission (or first mission where we get to customize out stuff) multiple times in various combinations because I want to figure out the game systems to see the difference in the armor and the sound among other things before advancing through the rest of the game haha

Yeah, I'll probably play the first level a few times before going on. That way we can find our optimal loadout for our style.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-30-2013, 08:59 PM
You could probably use the stealth suits you want to use to blend into the shadows more effectively, and then use more combat oriented boots to give you that sound detection you're looking for.

Oh that's not a bad idea. Some type of combat boots might make the noise detection louder but the rest of the suit could be stealthy. Nice -- if that's what it's like, that wouldn't be the worst thing ever haha


Yeah, I'll probably play the first level a few times before going on. That way we can find our optimal loadout for our style.

Indeed. I finally saw what the loading screen for missions looks like thanks to the IGN video of the E3 demo -- I dig it. I only wish it had a bit more intel of what the mission was about like in the old games. Oh well..

MerriIl
06-30-2013, 10:06 PM
Indeed. I finally saw what the loading screen for missions looks like thanks to the IGN video of the E3 demo -- I dig it. I only wish it had a bit more intel of what the mission was about like in the old games. Oh well..

Wait, which video?

Kagurra
06-30-2013, 10:12 PM
Oh that's not a bad idea. Some type of combat boots might make the noise detection louder but the rest of the suit could be stealthy. Nice -- if that's what it's like, that wouldn't be the worst thing ever haha

Yeah, I thought that might work. :3 I think stealth suits will also make you quieter, like how the Upper Echelon suit was described in earlier games as being so close to the skin it barely moves and makes noise, but if you use combat boots you won't be able to crouch active sprint past people and stuff.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-30-2013, 10:20 PM
Yeah, I thought that might work. :3 I think stealth suits will also make you quieter, like how the Upper Echelon suit was described in earlier games as being so close to the skin it barely moves and makes noise, but if you use combat boots you won't be able to crouch active sprint past people and stuff.

Yeah I think I'd be down to do that so long as the combat boots aren't so glaringly awkward looking hahaha

Kagurra
06-30-2013, 10:40 PM
Yeah I think I'd be down to do that so long as the combat boots aren't so glaringly awkward looking hahaha

I guess we'll see xD There's always Kestrel's boots. I assume they're combat oriented considering the front plating.

Rogue Agent 035
06-30-2013, 11:33 PM
I like your thinking an logic Bob as I too feel the same regarding the stealth approach especially within blacklist, I don't want the stealth ridiculously easy, but not frustratingly difficult either (i.e. Conviction's stealth mechanic). Please someone correct this if I heard an seen it wrong, but didn't scott lee say at the MCM that each article of clothing has it's own "Stealth Meter" So..., it stands to reason why mixing/matching would work, but still my biggest worry is... short of going barefoot, how would u find a quieter boot, just my own thought an concern cause the lasting I want in BL is a guard wigging out as I'm creeping behind him to get to my next objective :cool:

Dome500
06-30-2013, 11:34 PM
I think this change is not as severe as you think.

I am sure that a heavily armored suit will only give you seconds more before you die in a firefight and they will maybe set the sound detection just 1 level higher each speed (or 2 depending on the suit).
The stealth suits then will set the sound detection one level lower.

And that's how I think it works:

Let's assume (numbers completely made up and randomly picked) with a "normal" suit (so the standard, balanced suit setting) you are detected from 20 meters/feet away when moving on normal speed standing and fast speed crouched (again all numbers and facts are made up).

With the heavy combat suit you might either be detected from about 30 meters/feet away with the same speed and you might be detected from 20 meters away on the normal crouch speed or the slow standing speed.

With the stealth suit now they have to be more sensitive in order to make the customization be useful but simultaneously not breaking the stealth system.

So you might be detected only from 15 meters away (instead of 20) in the mentioned speed and from about 10 meters away with the latter mentioned speed(s).


I think the developer made this not primarily as a "helper", but also to keep realism and add another factor to the equation.

1. It is only realistic that some equipment and suits are more silent than others, depending not only on weight but also on material and a bunch of other variables.
2. By giving you a (slight) stealth bonus and a stealth disadvantage dependent on your choice of customization the developers lay more weight to the customization system and make it not only cosmetic, but also create a new variable in the equation of how successful you mission will be an which approach you are taking.

Just my two cents.

I - for myself - will make use of the stealth suits in case they are not OP, because I think Sam Fisher wouldn't deny a "stealthier" suit just because it might be a challenge to go through in the heavy one. (except aside from my normal playthrough, when I am trying to challenge myself and have a little fun with the system)

I think it will turn out to be neither a stealth breaker (heavy suits) nor too much of a stealth helper (stealth suits).

My opinion is if I - as Sam Fisher - had the chance to use a suit that makes you slightly more silent, then I would take the suit.

This does of course depend on the fact that I am right with my assumption that those suits are not making stealth impossible or too easy.

For that to confirm - we will need Zack.

Please respond as quickly as you can - it's a rather big concern (for me at least)

BoBwUzHeRe1138
07-01-2013, 06:20 AM
I hope that the "better protection" of the Upper Echelon suit and any suit that offers more armor is pretty much nothing when playing on Perfectionist. They said on Perfectionist, it's one shot and you're dead so I hope it doesn't matter what outfit you wear, either way you'll die pretty much instantly.

Kind of like how they made it so enemies deny frontal takedowns. On other difficulties, only Heavy enemies can do that whereas on Perfectionist -- EVERYONE does it.

TheRealGunnut19
07-01-2013, 06:26 AM
I hope armor doesn't become completely moot.

A lot of protection can often still not do much at all, anyway. Look at R6V, even with a heavy outfit, go into the open with guards using anything short of pistols, you die pretty much instantly anyway.

Kagurra
07-01-2013, 06:28 AM
I hope that the "better protection" of the Upper Echelon suit and any suit that offers more armor is pretty much nothing when playing on Perfectionist. They said on Perfectionist, it's one shot and you're dead so I hope it doesn't matter what outfit you wear, either way you'll die pretty much instantly.

Kind of like how they made it so enemies deny frontal takedowns. On other difficulties, only Heavy enemies can do that whereas on Perfectionist -- EVERYONE does it.

I'm sure if you have FULL armor gear on, like every piece, you'll be able to live a few shots. But who wants all that junk on anyways? It is a little weird that out of the two properties they chose to advertise the Upper Echelon suit with, they chose better protection for one of them. If the suit is for old SC fans, they aren't going to be playing assault for the most part. I'm sure it does provide some protection realistically with the vest with the plates in it, but still. They could've went into detail about how silent it was because of how close it was to the body.

That reminds me of something... in the older games, that's how they described that suit. But if the reason it was so stealthy was that it was close to the body, why did Sam wear looser cargo pants with it most of the time...?

TheRealGunnut19
07-01-2013, 06:30 AM
I wonder if armor will affect movement speed.

It's knd of like how, in some games, you carry a LMG and you are power walking the entire time.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
07-01-2013, 06:39 AM
I hope armor doesn't become completely moot.

A lot of protection can often still not do much at all, anyway. Look at R6V, even with a heavy outfit, go into the open with guards using anything short of pistols, you die pretty much instantly anyway.

I do -- the game mode is supposed to be for diehard SC fans and with regenerative health, you lose the difficulty present in SAR-CT where if you were badly hur, you had to find health. Thus it becomes a lot easier since your health will regenerate. The insta-kill is great because it'd solve the issue I've had with regen health since Double Agent -- that said, I won't mind if heavier armor will protect you from a couple shots because in all likelihood, you'll still die anyway but if you do happen to get away then you get to live. I still don't like it though but it's whatevs to me since I will rarely wear heavy outfits unless I'm doing an Assault and/or very aggressive Panther run.


I'm sure if you have FULL armor gear on, like every piece, you'll be able to live a few shots. But who wants all that junk on anyways? It is a little weird that out of the two properties they chose to advertise the Upper Echelon suit with, they chose better protection for one of them. If the suit is for old SC fans, they aren't going to be playing assault for the most part. I'm sure it does provide some protection realistically with the vest with the plates in it, but still. They could've went into detail about how silent it was because of how close it was to the body.

That reminds me of something... in the older games, that's how they described that suit. But if the reason it was so stealthy was that it was close to the body, why did Sam wear looser cargo pants with it most of the time...?

The description says it provides better protection and blends into the shadows better. That's part of why I mentioned the armor thing -- I don't want that suit to give me too much protection on PErfectionist. That mode is supposed to make it as close to classic SC as possible and since you have regen health rather than a health bar, they solved the issue with near-instant death from gunshots but if the outfit that's also designed for the classic SC fan provides too much protection that lets you live even on Perfectionist -- I'll be upset...

Also... I always liked the look of the wetsuit+cargo pant combo. No idea why he wore that though. He never wears that combo in Pandora Tomorrow does he? It's been awhile. Actually in Jakarta, I think he wears the cargo pants along with the short sleeve variant of Upper Echelon. Hmmm... other than that though, I think he wears the PT jungle suit for the first mission and all the jungle missions and wears the full wetsuit version of the Upper Echelon suit complete with balaclava for the rest of the missions like in PAris and Jerusalem. I'll see for sure though. I think it was in CT when they reintroduced the Upper Echelon suit with cargo pants although the UE suit looked a lot different in CT compared to the one in SCB.

Kagurra
07-01-2013, 06:42 AM
I do -- the game mode is supposed to be for diehard SC fans and with regenerative health, you lose the difficulty present in SAR-CT where if you were badly hur, you had to find health. Thus it becomes a lot easier since your health will regenerate. The insta-kill is great because it'd solve the issue I've had with regen health since Double Agent -- that said, I won't mind if heavier armor will protect you from a couple shots because in all likelihood, you'll still die anyway but if you do happen to get away then you get to live. I still don't like it though but it's whatevs to me since I will rarely wear heavy outfits unless I'm doing an Assault and/or very aggressive Panther run.

The description says it provides better protection and blends into the shadows better. That's part of why I mentioned the armor thing -- I don't want that suit to give me too much protection on PErfectionist. That mode is supposed to make it as close to classic SC as possible and since you have regen health rather than a health bar, they solved the issue with near-instant death from gunshots but if the outfit that's also designed for the classic SC fan provides too much protection that lets you live even on Perfectionist -- I'll be upset...

I'm sure it won't be thaat much. maybe like 35% of the bar full? I'm sure it will be fine. c: It is a suit for the classic SC fan after all, they wouldn't do something that is against that.

TheRealGunnut19
07-01-2013, 06:42 AM
I do -- the game mode is supposed to be for diehard SC fans and with regenerative health, you lose the difficulty present in SAR-CT where if you were badly hur, you had to find health. Thus it becomes a lot easier since your health will regenerate. The insta-kill is great because it'd solve the issue I've had with regen health since Double Agent -- that said, I won't mind if heavier armor will protect you from a couple shots because in all likelihood, you'll still die anyway but if you do happen to get away then you get to live. I still don't like it though but it's whatevs to me since I will rarely wear heavy outfits unless I'm doing an Assault and/or very aggressive Panther run.

The description says it provides better protection and blends into the shadows better. That's part of why I mentioned the armor thing -- I don't want that suit to give me too much protection on PErfectionist. That mode is supposed to make it as close to classic SC as possible and since you have regen health rather than a health bar, they solved the issue with near-instant death from gunshots but if the outfit that's also designed for the classic SC fan provides too much protection that lets you live even on Perfectionist -- I'll be upset...

What if the armor made it two shtos to kill? any guard with a half decent trigger finger could kill you about as quickly.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
07-01-2013, 07:12 AM
What if the armor made it two shtos to kill? any guard with a half decent trigger finger could kill you about as quickly.

Like I said, I don't mind if it increases your damage resistance. I'd be okay with a handful of shots like 3-4 but only for the most armored suits. I doubt I'll use them much anyway and so it's no skin off my nose really. I just hope it's ridiculously hard to survive haha

My main concern is like with the Upper Echelon suit, it says it provides better protection so I hope it doesn't act like the heavy outfits and makes dying a little harder on Blacklist. The other outfits that are heavier -- fine...but not the Upper Echelon (x

Kagurra
07-01-2013, 07:22 AM
Like I said, I don't mind if it increases your damage resistance. I'd be okay with a handful of shots like 3-4 but only for the most armored suits. I doubt I'll use them much anyway and so it's no skin off my nose really. I just hope it's ridiculously hard to survive haha

My main concern is like with the Upper Echelon suit, it says it provides better protection so I hope it doesn't act like the heavy outfits and makes dying a little harder on Blacklist. The other outfits that are heavier -- fine...but not the Upper Echelon (x

Yeah, they have to stick to it's original properties like it's stealth bonuses. that's the whole reason Sam ever used it in the first place and to change it to appeal the rusher action player would be a huge sin. Buuut I'm like 99.999% sure everything will be just fine.

Dome500
07-01-2013, 10:14 PM
*hoping for Zacks answer*

GAPGXD360
01-22-2014, 07:43 AM
If you guys dont want to hear me its ok, im new in this post (or the post its too old), but I'e played with the Uper Echelon suit and it works (at least in my experience) just like the Nanopolymeter Coating Suit. Hope it helped

Mosquitozzzzz
01-24-2014, 03:11 PM
BoBwUzHeRe

Man, thank you for your threads and posts.